BRONZ press release - ACC levy consultation, and the motorcycle ACC levy

[riffer]

PRESS RELEASE
For immediate release
20 September 2013

Bikers Rights Organisation of New Zealand (BRONZ) Federation
ACC Levy Consultation, and the Motorcycle ACC Levy

The 2014/15 ACC Levy Consultation is open, and ACC have proposed decreases of 15% to earners’ and motorists’ levies, and 17% decreases to employers. However they have specifically excluded a reduction to the ACC levy for motorcyclists, without supplying a new explanation. As representatives of the motorcycling community we believe this to be a discriminatory measure and we would like the opportunity to respond to this.

ACC have claimed that motorcycle injury costs have increased markedly, resulting in a requirement for the levy to increase in recent years. Research undertaken by Dr Charles Lamb in 2010 clearly demonstrated that the opposite has occurred, despite the huge increase in the motorcycle fleet. Meanwhile, the Government have twisted the data to suit their needs by carefully manipulating timeframes to paint the dire picture they so desire in order to justify continuation of an increased levy on the motorcycle riders in New Zealand. This picture is a fallacy.

The fleet size has tripled if not quadrupled since the late 80’s and is growing faster than ever due to the hike in fuel costs. Yet motorcyclists now make up only 9 percent of all road users injured, compared to 21 percent in the early and mid-1980s. The truth is a change from pay-as-you-go to fully funded model is a more accurate explanation for their requirement for extra levies.

Motorcyclists are attending more training than ever. Information on, and availability of, good quality safety gear has never been more than it is now. Yet the levy stands, while other vehicles that have had raised levies now face a reduction, despite there being no evidence of any reduction in the costs these vehicle types induce on an annual basis and even less evidence of any extra training undertaken by these road users.

Local councils and ACC are subsidising training and safety courses all over New Zealand and these courses are fully booked within days of announcement. Motorcyclists nationwide have taken to these training sessions at a very high uptake rate and it is not slowing down – in fact demand for more courses is increasing, and groups like Ulysses and BRONZ have created mentor programs and have for some time hosted beginner confidence rides organised to improve the standard of rider ability from day one. Bikers across the country are taking every opportunity available to upskill themselves to become better and safer riders - yet this is not recognised by the very organisation that’s helping to sponsor the training. The levy remains unchanged.

This reinforces our war cry of the 2009 campaign against the levy hike – that we are discriminated against because we are EASY TARGETS.

Too many policy makers are still looking at motorcycles and seeing two wheeled boy racers or gang members, when the reality is far different – we are sensible and safe everyday people, choosing a means of transport that contributes greatly to reducing congestion, environmental pollution and waste.

ACC are considering risk-based discounts on ACC levies based on contentious safety studies sponsored by manufacturers of motor vehicles, while at the same time refusing to acknowledge the effort the motorcycling fraternity is making to improve safety. Much has been said of safety features like ABS making the car fleet safer, yet this technology is ubiquitous amongst the motorcycle fleet they consider to be so much more dangerous than cars.

This farce must at last be seen for exactly what it is, a method to boost ACC’s income to make it attractive for sale to private insurance companies. It’s a tactic that has failed abysmally to gain acceptance, and as a result ACC is overweight with money - billions in surplus - yet the current government seems to insist ‘those dirty bikers have to keep paying’.

It’s time to get real ACC.

We have been patient, we have worked with you to achieve the results you’ve been asking for, but we won’t be patient forever. We’ve protested in the past about the unfairness of the ACC levy, and we’ve held off repeating this because of the massive disruption it causes.

But you’re not listening. If you can justify a reduction on all the other levy accounts, then bikers should also get their fair piece of the pie. We do more for our own safety than any other road user group, while continuing to pay more in ACC, and it’s time we got a fair go.

Byron Cummins (https://www.facebook.com/byron.cummins.5?directed_target_id=632722006750894 )
BRONZ Federation Spokesperson

[Akzle]

its one of those 'either pay it, or complain about it, not both' things

come on come on! Liiisten to the money taulk!!

Just vote and pay tax and bleat. Good deal!

[riffer]

Well that's one way of looking at it. Embrace the brighter future under National and all that.

I'd rather look at it a different way. A few years ago we took 8000 motorcycles to Parliament grounds and got a $200 backdown on levy increases.

Let's do it again. Bikoi II.

[kinger]

A very well reasoned letter, until it gets to.....

We have been patient, we have worked with you to achieve the results you’ve been asking for, but we won’t be patient forever. We’ve protested in the past about the unfairness of the ACC levy, and we’ve held off repeating this because of the massive disruption it causes.

So what are you threatening?

Most attendees to Bikoi know that the protest had no effect on the huge increase in levies, and the half arsed deception that was implemented was always going to be implemented anyway.
Key's government will listen to neither mass protest, nor reasoned argument, stating that we gave him the right to make unpopular decisions by voting him in.
I'll watch with interest, but won't hold my breath for a reasonable reply.

[Drogen Omen]

A very well reasoned letter, until it gets to.....


So what are you threatening?

Most attendees to Bikoi know that the protest had no effect on the huge increase in levies, and the half arsed deception that was implemented was always going to be implemented anyway.
Key's government will listen to neither mass protest, nor reasoned argument, stating that we gave him the right to make unpopular decisions by voting him in.
I'll watch with interest, but won't hold my breath for a reasonable reply.

spoken like a true biker.... NOT!!!!!!!

at least if we try to get it changed and get a small decrease its still a win compared to doing nothing and they increase it cause they think they can get away with it.

our government knows we all bend over and take what ever they shove our way and like it.

[riffer]

Don't expect that all bikers are prepared to stand up for their rights Drogen Omen.

After all, over half the country already support those arseholes that brought in this mess in the first place.

As for the Bikoi having no affect on the levies, keep living in you dream world kinger.

[Akzle]

our government knows we all bend over and take what ever they shove our way and like it.

noooo... Infact, i just stopped giving them money, and started taking theirs. Win win.

[Hawk]

This maybe an ideal time for Bikeoi 2, remember the election is next year and if we try and make the selling off of acc as an asset sale protest....................... also I know of at least one facebook group started when this press release appeared in Stuff, that within hours of being setup had 300 members and is still growing
Personally Im dusting off some old protest t shirts.

[Scuba_Steve]

So what are you threatening?


Party at parliament, Molotov cocktails on the house!

[Katman]

spoken like a true biker.... NOT!!!!!!!


Do you have the low down on what makes a 'true biker', do you?

[Swoop]

Firstly, it is great to see a response from BRONZ. Well done! The issue needs to be brought to the public's attention.

Secondly, The end of the release is a bit "odd". Perhaps stating a required reduction in costs that proportionally equal the other levy reductions mentioned.

A second Bikoi? Difficult to see, but not impossible. Remember that National will be the next government, so advanced planning for that (lobbying the right MP's...) might be more productive.

[riffer]

Remember that National will be the next government.

Bold prediction. I can assure that if National IS the next government, you might as well kiss your motorcycle ownership good bye.

[riffer]

I do agree on the bikoi thing though. Limited disruption would be a better tactic, and it's one being discussed a lot lately. Along the lines of lots of motorcycles causing rush hour congestion. Totally legal but still enough to get attention.

[Swoop]

Bold prediction. I can assure that if National IS the next government, you might as well kiss your motorcycle ownership good bye.
There is no credible opposition. Lots of minor parties will see an increase of votes though.

[riffer]

There is no credible opposition. Lots of minor parties will see an increase of votes though.

There's fuck all credible government as well mate.

[jellywrestler]

Well that's one way of looking at it. Embrace the brighter future under National and all that.

I'd rather look at it a different way. A few years ago we took 8000 motorcycles to Parliament grounds and got a $200 backdown on levy increases.

Let's do it again. Bikoi II. was there a $200 backdown or did their original pricing go on the briscoes 'we'll have a sale every three weekes' model???

[riffer]

was there a $200 backdown or did their original pricing go on the briscoes 'we'll have a sale every three weekes' model???


Well it's the perennial argument isn't it? Let me put it to you - do you really think they would have reduced the levy by $200 out of the goodness of their hearts if we hadn't have protested?

[GrayWolf]

Don't expect that all bikers are prepared to stand up for their rights Drogen Omen.

After all, over half the country already support those arseholes that brought in this mess in the first place.

As for the Bikoi having no affect on the levies, keep living in you dream world kinger.


Oh for god's sake, it's about time some of you realised the Bikoi reaction was all part of the political game...
I can almost guarantee the $200 'DISCOUNT' was already 'factored in',, part of any negotiations is to have things you will 'give away' and things you are prepared to 'negotiate' away... that 'drop ' was already BUILT IN, all that happened was we got it 'discounted' to the amount they intended all along.. and like all good political shaftings? the PLEBS went away feeling they had won something :doh:

[riffer]

Oh for god's sake, it's about time some of you realised the Bikoi reaction was all part of the political game...
I can almost guarantee the $200 'DISCOUNT' was already 'factored in',, part of any negotiations is to have things you will 'give away' and things you are prepared to 'negotiate' away... that 'drop ' was already BUILT IN, all that happened was we got it 'discounted' to the amount they intended all along.. and like all good political shaftings? the PLEBS went away feeling they had won something :doh:

As we so famously said on Parliament grounds... bullshit. They would NEVER have reduced the amount out of the goodness of their hearts. Granted, they had it as a backup plan if the shit hit the fan, but my point remains. They would not have done anything if we said nothing.

Are you prepared to test your theory again?

[caseye]

Oh for god's sake, it's about time some of you realised the Bikoi reaction was all part of the political game...
I can almost guarantee the $200 'DISCOUNT' was already 'factored in',, part of any negotiations is to have things you will 'give away' and things you are prepared to 'negotiate' away... that 'drop ' was already BUILT IN, all that happened was we got it 'discounted' to the amount they intended all along.. and like all good political shaftings? the PLEBS went away feeling they had won something :doh:

So simple, but so true, well said mate.
Back in the day no one wanted to make too much of a song and dance in case we bikers upset the ordinary motorists.
We did get shafted and we rolled over and took it!
Another bikoi? Na.
A number of large groups of bikes at strategic political targets making a legal nuisance of themselves, Oh yeah.Repeatedly and within the law but pissing off the pollies and the ACC types, no one else initially at least.
Escalating action until govt agrees to sit down and talk!
That is the only thing politicians do understand,disruption, division and being conquered, hell we should know how it works they've done it to us already.

[riffer]

I like the way you're talking there Caseye.

[jellywrestler]

Well it's the perennial argument isn't it? Let me put it to you - do you really think they would have reduced the levy by $200 out of the goodness of their hearts if we hadn't have protested?

no I don't, but after that it seemed to have lost it's drive, where were the 300000 people in new zealand ride motorcycles; and vote stickers pre election???? where were the individual policy statements from each and every candidate on this and only this subject???
wasn't that a good opportunity to twist the knife a bit harder????

[mashman]

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... National = vote Winning. Onya for the response BRONZ, but until they start treating a road user as a road user, I fail to see that anything will change. We've accepted a tiered system of risk based assessment for motorcycle on top of a vehicle tiered risk based system and short of arresting that attitude, forget it. I for one won't be happy with anything other than being treated as a road user and paying exactly the same as any other vehicle on the road.

It's nothing more than the money goround and I bet they were smiling their arses off when they came up with this latest little ditty.



After all, over half the country already support those arseholes that brought in this mess in the first place.

Not correct. Over half of those who voted maybe, but half of the country, no.

[kinger]

I like the way you're talking there Caseye.

.......but not the way I did Riffer? despite us both believing the levy let off was preordained, and that mass protest would be ineffective.
Jeez, glad you have a point of view you're willing to stand by.

If I was a true biker (a la Drogen Omen), I'd be popping my waistcoat off, draping it round my ape hangers, and giving you one of them "We're not worthy" arms up waves.
Thanks BRONZ, for letting this be our voice.:mega:

[kiwi cowboy]

Oh for god's sake, it's about time some of you realised the Bikoi reaction was all part of the political game...
I can almost guarantee the $200 'DISCOUNT' was already 'factored in',, part of any negotiations is to have things you will 'give away' and things you are prepared to 'negotiate' away... that 'drop ' was already BUILT IN, all that happened was we got it 'discounted' to the amount they intended all along.. and like all good political shaftings? the PLEBS went away feeling they had won something :doh:

I said exactly this about the recent fishing quota cuts proposed.
They said cut to three from 9 wasn't it but they really only wanted it cut to 7 so when every one was up in arms they said ok we will come to the party and only drop it to 7 and then the fishers say to themselves ok still not really happy but its a win really considering they wanted to drop to 3 and the pollies smile knowing they have played the fishers cos 7 is what they wanted all along.

[kiwi cowboy]

Well it's the perennial argument isn't it? Let me put it to you - do you really think they would have reduced the levy by $200 out of the goodness of their hearts if we hadn't have protested?

No they wouldn't of but as has been suggested it part of there game.
Say there going to hike it by a shit load more and expect a protest and then back down too a preordained level so the protesters think they have had a win.
Of course they hope for no response then they can really screw the plebs:2thumbsup

[caseye]

Riff, I know how much BRONZ would love to put it right up the govt, but can't due to their constitutional red tape re protests and legality.
I'm still a member of BRONZ, always have been. I know how much work they've put in behind the scenes over the past 30 or more years. As motorcyclists we owe a big debt to BRONZ, but when it came to Bikoi and accepting the govts already determined numbers they were powerless.
Individually I am too, but if enough of us actually got off our arses, rode to events where there was going to be escalation in terms of how big, how many and actions taken, then we'd get some traction.
Local ministers would want to talk with us and once the ball is rolling govt would have too.
We took our collective foot off their throat re Bikoi, we should have done it again Sam, a week later and promised more of the same, bet the result would have been different.
Having said what I have, I want to acknowledge all of those who did manage to mobilize many thousands of bikers for their genuine honest hard work in making it happen.
Love ya STONEY, no matter what else is said no one can take away the efforts of this guy and his fellow organisers not forgetting the local area types from motorcycle clubs and organisations all over the country who got out and stirred until people came.

[Madness]

noooo... Infact, i just stopped giving them money, and started taking theirs. Win win.

Isn't that just a side-effect of your bike shitting itself, rather than being a political statement?

[kinger]

I came. I felt I had to be there in order to have a point of view, hence I feel free to contribute here.
I'll sit back and watch now though, I think I've said my bit.

[cheshirecat]

All legal action is good, but rather than protest just about our levies and loose sympathy from other road users we could take up the cause for all road uses and those hard done by the ACC/National and utilise the motorcycles advantages. This way our own cause would be highlighted by default and we'd have the support of many groups -truckies, self employed, small companies, health workers, AA, students, cyclists even, now they have a powerful lobby group- even the police rank and file maybe. Have I missed anyone out? All these groups will give us inside information we can use - etc etc

Also it means we utilise the fact we are a bunch of independent thinkers and action types to be just that -ourselves.

So if we are going to have bikios large and/or small, we can target/ lobby the ACC chief managers (their large pay packets and subsidies) and MP's, set up international websites and get international attention, target individuals pro our high ACC levies etc et.

Also time protests to coincide with Int events happening in NZ for max int exposure.

Anyway just my 2Cts

[Bald Eagle]

Maybe we ask John Minto for some 1981 style help , they got serious disruption and attention..... doh that's right the tour went the distance anyway.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[caseye]

yer an ol, um elder, cynic there BE, It'd work if it was done right, and that's the trick, people with the contacts and the wherewithal to get it up and running.
I like ol Cheshirecats thoughts,make hay and be on the right side of most road users.

[riffer]

I came. I felt I had to be there in order to have a point of view, hence I feel free to contribute here.
I'll sit back and watch now though, I think I've said my bit.

Hmmm. That'll make a difference eh? Y'see kinger, this is the problem. It's always someone else's job.

That's how come they can do this. I struggle to pay the $600 a year on my rego. I dunno how I'm gonna pay more if they increase it more.

But the point is, we've done everything they've asked. And the crashes have come down. And they still continue to screw us.

And it seems to me that it's going to keep happening because:

a) it's someone else's job to protest about it; and
b) we don't want to piss anybody off.

Disappointing really.

[BMWST?]

Oh for god's sake, it's about time some of you realised the Bikoi reaction was all part of the political game...
I can almost guarantee the $200 'DISCOUNT' was already 'factored in',, part of any negotiations is to have things you will 'give away' and things you are prepared to 'negotiate' away... that 'drop ' was already BUILT IN, all that happened was we got it 'discounted' to the amount they intended all along.. and like all good political shaftings? the PLEBS went away feeling they had won something :doh:

we did win some thing.We got the reduction pre meditated or not.What do you propose.Do nothing and moan and whine afterwards.I would rather try again than do nothing.

[BMWST?]

Maybe we ask John Minto for some 1981 style help , they got serious disruption and attention..... doh that's right the tour went the distance anyway.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

it didnt, they had to call of the game in Hamilton

[bogan]

Hey Riffer, good to see you guys are still fighting them on this. Will get my two wheels to a ride if I can. One thing though, it is not registered so will want some sort of risk assessment on getting pinged for that...

[riffer]

Hey Riffer, good to see you guys are still fighting them on this. Will get my two wheels to a ride if I can. One thing though, it is not registered so will want some sort of risk assessment on getting pinged for that...

Yeah no worries man, they passed a law a while ago that said you were allowed to use an unregistered vehicle to protest ACC levies. </sarcasm>

[wharfy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9230463/ACC-surplus-opens-way-for-levy-cuts

[Murray]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9230463/ACC-surplus-opens-way-for-levy-cuts

Sorry this may be dumb but: Why would you sell off something you are making so much money out of and can pass laws for ludicrous increases and get away with it?? If it was sold off would that then mean competition and the possibility prices come down and the loss of all those billions of dollars?? Or do you mean ACC becomes a public company and the government sell shares in it??

Personally if I was in Government I would be regarding ACC as a major financier of the Government and no way want to sell it off. Once sold the guaranteed profit is gone!!

[Ocean1]

ACC has provided excellent value for money over the last 30 years. If you doubt that go and live somewhere else for a while. Anywhere else. It's also been politically stable and relatively unadulterated from it's original shape for most of that time.

The anti National slant here isn't helping the cause, it might be true that National's recent policy changes are more in line with their user-pays philosophies, but the opposition isn't any less likely to make unpopular decisions. Quite the reverse according to the incumbent's election advantage and more recent polls.

So leave the partisan bullshit out of it, you're simply alienating the majority of people who would otherwise like to participate in an opportunity to demonstrate how wrong the current government 's policy wrt registration costs is and their alignment with a contrived risk and it's associated costs.

I understand, (and I'd like corroboration if possible) that the revenue from motorcycle registration has gone down since the cost increase. I like that. It means that my personal policy of making sure they don't profit from my choice of transport seems reasonably widespread.

I do agree that any demonstration has to be both effective and legal. I think a large fleet of bikes traveling into Wgtn at extremely safe speed smack in the middle of rush-hour is an excellent idea. Parking would be the only potentially legal problem, there's not enough. We'd have no choice, we'd simply have to park in car parks. Tough.

[pete376403]

Sorry this may be dumb but: Why would you sell off something you are making so much money out of and can pass laws for ludicrous increases and get away with it?? If it was sold off would that then mean competition and the possibility prices come down and the loss of all those billions of dollars?? Or do you mean ACC becomes a public company and the government sell shares in it??

Personally if I was in Government I would be regarding ACC as a major financier of the Government and no way want to sell it off. Once sold the guaranteed profit is gone!!

Just like the dividends from the electricity companies - but this government has never let economic common sense get in the way of ideology.

[Pixie]

Hey Riffer, good to see you guys are still fighting them on this. Will get my two wheels to a ride if I can. One thing though, it is not registered so will want some sort of risk assessment on getting pinged for that...

Not a lot of risk - I have only licenced my bike for 3 months a year for the last three years.(strangely,since the ACC levies rose)
Still do 25,000KM/year (heh heh -real hard squeezin' that into 3 months heh heh)


P.S. what're our friends at moronz.co.nz doing these days (I might have the address wrong)

[avgas]

Do you have the low down on what makes a 'true biker', do you?
If history serves me correctly. This particular member believes that all bikers should be against ACC levy and WRB.
I may have him confused however.

[avgas]

Not correct. Over half of those who voted maybe, but half of the country, no.
24.7% have no faith or no time. Either way its sad we don't count them. Kinda like removing the soldier deaths from WWII and concentrating on the Jews only.

[speeding_ant]

Not a lot of risk - I have only licenced my bike for 3 months a year for the last three years.(strangely,since the ACC levies rose)
Still do 25,000KM/year (heh heh -real hard squeezin' that into 3 months heh heh)


P.S. what're our friends at moronz.co.nz doing these days (I might have the address wrong)

Wouldn't you get stung if you have to do an insurance claim?

[bogan]

Not a lot of risk - I have only licenced my bike for 3 months a year for the last three years.(strangely,since the ACC levies rose)
Still do 25,000KM/year (heh heh -real hard squeezin' that into 3 months heh heh)


P.S. what're our friends at moronz.co.nz doing these days (I might have the address wrong)

Three months more than me :P though a few more km too. I mean if the protest is going to be stopped or checkpointed with cops checking for regos, then I'm out; same risk as any other ride and I'm in if I can make it.

[The Reibz]

Bikeio 2. Fuck im keen.
Should make it like ROC in the states and everyone take off there plates. That way no ones got a rego.
Just paid mine yesterday, what a fucken joke. Almost need a bank load to pay that shit

[Drew]

concentrating on the Jews only.No, it was Hitler who 'concentrated' the Jews.

[biker baz]

We can all have our 10cents worth by going to the acc website. Copy & paste into their levy consultation format or email- levyconsultation@acc.co.nz BEFORE 15.10.13 at 5.00 pm closing time. My idea of a best case scenario is 100,000 plus emails saying - WHAT PART OF REDUCE THE M/C LEVY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Don’t be shy even if big brother can illegally spy on us & if you are paranoid about it, write your email in word, save it onto an M-stick, go to an internet cafe & open a new free email address to send it by. That should take care of being put on a civil disobedience database or traced for any outstanding fines, overdue regos etc. Oops nearly forgot I think your name, address Phone &/or email need to be included so if you want to give a verbal presentation they can contact you. Some formats you can tick the box, others you must write you wish to make a verbal, usually at the end, but big letters at the start would do it too. Do it anyway, even if you don’t want to speak. They might think you really are pissed off, & to them it is a numbers game. That is when things might go our way. Add the public embarrassment of another bikoi to the minister Collins (ex police) unless she is multitasking or brown nosing & doing 2 jobs for the price of one.
As a diversion, at the last Bikoi to parliament, 2 of the nice policemen with lots of silverware on their shoulders, were discreetly taking photos of the noisiest banner waving protesters, so I took photos of them. They are stored at safe locations.

One thing that really does piss me off is that being the proud owner of a 650cc bike, I am paying the top levy rate for an extra 50cc.
Now to add insult to injury, ltsa classify it as a learner approved motorcycle because of the low power to weight ratio. WTF, my PTW is a PITA & my CCs are too!

AS IF the levy is fair & equitable anyway, this is patently UNfair.
Rider ability & experience aside, as the levy is based on the cc rating of the motorcycle, acc should adopt the same power to weight system as ltsa for a level playing field. If a learner rider has less experience, the slower speed does level out the extra risk, if any.
Importers are required to show the PTW so the info is easily available & could even be extended to cars (less 15% of course).
The real reason we are being screwed is probably less bikers vote national than car owners. So if we all promise to vote national maybe we can get 20% off. Oh well it wont happen as we are not politicians & at least have our integrity but not our wallets intact.
I will be spreading the message/rant to motonz, bronz, Ulysses, MNZ, m/c clubs, magazines, & forums. So if anybody has other points to add feel free to share.

[Drew]

Hahahahahahaha, you want to send emails to a government department. Why the fuck would they need to "spy" on you?

More to the point, why the fucken hell do you think it would matter if they did? If someone has something to hide, why would we want them as part of any movement/action we (as bikers) might manage to get going?

This is gold. Covert rebellion! What would be the goal? To make sure we are ignored.

Smarter by half, is the term I think best describes that course of action.

[Mom]

Wouldn't you get stung if you have to do an insurance claim?

Nope. You would just be contributing to the public purse if you got pinged.


Three months more than me :P though a few more km too. I mean if the protest is going to be stopped or checkpointed with cops checking for regos, then I'm out; same risk as any other ride and I'm in if I can make it.


No large protest ride will ever be stopped, unless it stops and lays down.


Bikeio 2. Fuck im keen.
Should make it like ROC in the states and everyone take off there plates. That way no ones got a rego.
Just paid mine yesterday, what a fucken joke. Almost need a bank load to pay that shit

Being keen and actually organising are 2 very, very different things.


We can all have our 10cents worth by going to the acc website.

Fucken HA! HA! HA! You are a fool if you think that sort of thing makes a difference. I am actually laughing here. :facepalm:

[tigertim20]

if there are people who are willing/able to organise some kind of nuisance based protest, I would happily join.

Id think though, that a solitary protest is unlikely to have a significant effect. It might also be be easier to have different groups organise separate, but linked protests, in different centres, on different days, to make sure that our exposure is widespread and lasting.

[MadDuck]

We can all have our 10cents worth by going to the acc website.



Fucken HA! HA! HA! You are a fool if you think that sort of thing makes a difference. I am actually laughing here. :facepalm:

There are a few of us here who put a whole lot of effort into the last round back in 2009. We got knocked back by the biker community, our peers and politicians. Do not give up. NEVER give up biker baz. Even when they laugh at you and call you names. When you stop standing up for what you believe in you may as well exit ---->

[caseye]

if there are people who are willing/able to organise some kind of nuisance based protest, I would happily join.

Id think though, that a solitary protest is unlikely to have a significant effect. It might also be be easier to have different groups organise separate, but linked protests, in different centres, on different days, to make sure that our exposure is widespread and lasting.

Unfortunately my good man, this is exactly the PROBLEM.
Everyone wants someone else to do the organising.
Then they'll come.
+ one for Mom and MD's comments.

[Scuba_Steve]

Unfortunately my good man, this is exactly the PROBLEM.
Everyone wants someone else to do the organising.
Then they'll come.
+ one for Mom and MD's comments.

Sweet then; Petrol & Orange juice party at the beehive 20/11/13, don't for get the lighters, you know, to show you're respect & rags for the, um, "clean up" :shifty:

[Maha]

Unfortunately my good man, this is exactly the PROBLEM.
Everyone wants someone else to do the organising.
Then they'll come.
+ one for Mom and MD's comments.

...and it will forever be that way Mark. Unfortunately, BRONZ are the ''powerhouse movement'' where ''biker rights'' are concerned and they may well enjoy flogging a dead horse, who knows?
Those who now give a shit are very minimal compared to three years ago and any on going ''protest action'' will be (dare I say it) laughed off and seen as a feeble attempt to keep the ever dwindling support alive.

The only fact of 09' that people fall back on now is, how many turned up in Wellington, and that number varies depending on who you talk to.

[Swoop]

Wouldn't you get stung if you have to do an insurance claim?
In the majority of instances "no". A rego (or lack therof) has no contributing factor to an accident.
A W.o.F is a different matter entirely and you should keep that up to date.

I clarified the non-rego situation with my insurer and the reply was "do NOT pay rego! You are fully covered regardless of having a rego".

Perhaps phone and ask the same of your insurer?

[biker baz]

Fucken HA! HA! HA! You are a fool if you think that sort of thing makes a difference. I am actually laughing here. :facepalm:
Looking at the big picture I agree. What chance has one whinging crybaby email from an insignificant dirty biker got of making a difference, which is what we are supposed to think. Key is being told by his puppet masters to set up Acc & other stuff for sale & we are the easy target. However in my best case scenario of 100K plus angry mean hairy bikers, (& that is just the women:girlfight:) numbers do mean something. Public servants are like a pig in shit when it comes to counting & harder stuff like analysis & ministers are more sensitive than they would like to admit to adverse publicity. that is why they control the mainstream media (the presstitutes). Even minister collins wont be so tough when she gets her 'you are voted out bitch slap' from her electorate next election.
Personal experience of sending in opinion (never think or say submission) at a local body tribunal where 89% were against an issue, helped convince councillors to see things our way & I am applying the same logic here.
Each presentation is kept as a record for all to see making it extremely difficult for them to put their spin, without being shown up. It would help to have a bit of variety, they love to analyse into categories.
Granted it is a different dynamic this time, where everyone else gets a reduction except us. Last time we were all getting screwed & had some public sympathy.
One thing for sure I am way over being the happy cynic, laughing while my arse is being screwed.
To this end even tho my head hurts I will get a blurb for y'all to copy & paste to send in before 15/10.
Consultation the first step & will get their attention. Then we can carry out bikoi 2 & anything else that will rub their noses in it.

[swbarnett]

numbers do mean something
Sure, if you get the 89% support you had with your council. Anything less than a landslide is ignored.

If numbers really meant something referenda would be legally binding.

[Mom]

Sure, if you get the 89% support you had with your council. Anything less than a landslide is ignored.

If numbers really meant something referenda would be legally binding.

Some of us made a fairly big effort last time, the apathy of the majority beggars belief.

[Drew]

the apathy of the majority beggars belief.Firstly, repeat after me. Begs belief!

And secondly. Really? You were surprised that more people didn't show up?

I have no excuse for not showing up to the 'bikoi', whatever the fuck the word is meant to mean. I couldn't be bothered, and me doing wheelies everywhere was hardly gonna help anyone.

How many were there, 3000 or summat?

That's five times the number I would have predicted.

[Berries]

I have no excuse for not showing up to the 'bikoi', whatever the fuck the word is meant to mean.
Something to do with biscuits?

[Katman]

Firstly, repeat after me. Begs belief!


It's actually 'beggars belief'.

[Drew]

It's actually 'beggars belief'.Yeah, a thousand years ago. The language has evolved since then.

[GrayWolf]

we did win some thing.We got the reduction pre meditated or not.What do you propose.Do nothing and moan and whine afterwards.I would rather try again than do nothing.

Have you seen me moan and whine? No, Was I at Bikoi? yes absolutely. I was a member of MAG in the UK, in the 1980's when the 'venerable' Peter Bottomley esq' attempted a bill to enforce compulsory leg protectors. Sadly this was pre internet days, so there is little to no information available on the net; but you would have seen what I would call 'Mass Action'. Mag got the federation of European Motorcyclists involved, and several other bike groups... From memory, I recall the mass protest in Hyde park resulted in 25,000+ motorcycles. THAT is mass protest. What was also commented in a very handy way on the National news was, how quickly said mass numbers got out of London with little to no traffic disruption, which proved a point of motorcycles and traffic flow.
What we could? have done better maybe, was the fact MAG had a weekend Rally organised, so rather than just turn up to protest, we also had a large well run, weekend rally to attend, MAGna Carta. Yes the protest avoided the possible major traffic disruption that could have been instigated, but the message was left, "we might just be back in the middle of a week, sometime soon". Just the sheer number of bikes was guaranteed to make National news.

I don't own a car, so if anyone has a 'right' to feel pissed off? I would be one of the 'few' transport riders, rather than the 'summer/weekend warrior's' that make up the majority of bike riders... THEY are the ones you need to get off their friggin arses!

[GrayWolf]

...and it will forever be that way Mark. Unfortunately, BRONZ are the ''powerhouse movement'' where ''biker rights'' are concerned and they may well enjoy flogging a dead horse, who knows?
Those who now give a shit are very minimal compared to three years ago and any on going ''protest action'' will be (dare I say it) laughed off and seen as a feeble attempt to keep the ever dwindling support alive.

The only fact of 09' that people fall back on now is, how many turned up in Wellington, and that number varies depending on who you talk to.

Maybe BRONZ/MAG etc should join forces, and try a 'protest+rally' a la MAGna Carta I mentioned in a previous post? Bikers here seem willing to travel inter island/distances for a weekender? Give them a Protest + a good time, we may just see a much greater number turn up at Parliment? Or like the MAGna Carta run, they organised a protest ride to a nearby destination (Hyde Park)... (Maybe Frank Kitt park near Te Papa would be possible??) Had a Stage set up, spent a period of time there, then we all rode back to the Rally site some distance away.. so 25,000 bikes were media recorded riding to, at, and riding from the protest venue, and it was a DISCIPLINED protest ride.

MAGna Carta had a long build up of 'advertising' etc to ensure decent numbers would turn up.....

[Big Dave]

Been a while since you posted Pixie. It's been great.

[ellipsis]

Mag got the federation of European Motorcyclists involved, and several other bike groups... From memory, I recall the mass protest in Hyde park resulted in 25,000+ motorcycles. THAT is mass protest.

...bikers who couldn't afford the fuel, carried their helmets and got the bus from Scotland for that one...thats commitment ...

[biker baz]

...bikers who couldn't afford the fuel, carried their helmets and got the bus from Scotland for that one...thats commitment ...

Sure is commitment. I did similar for the last Bikoi as had been rear ended & ripped a shoulder tendon. The Naked bus ride was fun & cheap. not often those two words are in the same sentence. Stayed in a backpackers by the station & walked up the hill for the protest. It was worth being there to hear some mean pissed off hairy bikers & bikeresses chanting 'Bullshit, bullshit'

[biker baz]

We can all have our 10cents worth by going to the acc website or email- levyconsultation@acc.co.nz BEFORE 15.10.13 at 5.00 pm closing time. My idea of a best case scenario is 100,000 plus emails saying - WHAT PART OF REDUCE THE M/C LEVY DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Don’t be shy even if big brother can illegally spy on us & if you are paranoid about it, write your email in word, save it onto an M-stick, go to an internet cafe & open a new free email address to send it by. That should take care of being put on a civil disobedience database or traced for any outstanding fines, overdue regos etc. Oops nearly forgot I think your name, address Phone &/or email need to be included so if you want to give a verbal presentation they can contact you. Some formats you can tick the box, others you must write you wish to make a verbal, usually at the end, but big letters at the start would do it too. Do it anyway, even if you don’t want to speak. They might think you really are pissed off, & to them it is a numbers game. That is when things might go our way. Add the public embarrassment of another bikoi to the minister Collins (ex police) unless she is multitasking or brown nosing & doing 2 jobs for the price of one.
As a diversion, at the last Bikoi to parliament, 2 of the nice policemen with lots of silverware on their shoulders, were discreetly taking photos of the noisiest banner waving protesters, so I took photos of them. They are stored at safe locations.

One thing that really does piss me off is that being the proud owner of a 650cc bike, I am paying the top levy rate for an extra 50cc.
Now to add insult to injury, ltsa classify it as a learner approved motorcycle because of the low power to weight ratio. WTF, my PTW is a PITA & my CCs are too!

AS IF the levy is fair & equitable anyway, this is patently UNfair.
Rider ability & experience aside, as the levy is based on the cc rating of the motorcycle, acc should adopt the same power to weight system as ltsa for a level playing field. If a learner rider has less experience, the slower speed does level out the extra risk, if any.
Importers are required to show the PTW so the info is easily available & could even be extended to cars (less 15% of course).
The real reason we are being screwed is probably less bikers vote national than car owners. So if we all promise to vote national maybe we can get 20% off. Oh well it wont happen as we are not politicians & at least have our integrity but not our wallets intact.
I will be spreading the message/rant to motonz, bronz, Ulysses, MNZ, m/c clubs, magazines, & forums. So if anybody has other points to add feel free to share.

Thanks to Riffer, BRONZ & Ken @ Ulysses for ideas. Here is sample letter to send feel free to copy, paste add etc. No pressure send B4 5pm TODAY

Thank you for this opportunity to comment on & add to the proposals for changes to ACC levies for the 2014/2015 year. My expectation is that new & previous ideas presented will be seriously considered & implemented in 2014/15. I also wish to make a verbal presentation as part of this consultation.

Proposed decreases of 15% to earners’ and motorists’ levies, and 17% decreases to employers specifically exclude a reduction to the ACC levy for motorcyclists without explanation. As a member of the motorcycling community I believe this to be a discriminatory measure and would like this to be implemented for motorcyclists as well.

ACC have claimed that motorcycle injury costs have increased markedly, resulting in a requirement for the levy to increase in recent years. Research undertaken by Dr Charles Lamb in 2010 clearly demonstrated that the opposite has occurred, despite the huge increase in the motorcycle fleet. Meanwhile, the Government have twisted the data to suit their needs by carefully manipulating timeframes to paint the dire picture they so desire in order to justify continuation of an increased levy on the motorcycle riders in New Zealand. This picture is a fallacy.
Because the ACC system is supposed to operate as a “No-fault” system we face a double whammy. Injury accidents that involve motorcyclists seem to be classed as “motorcycle accidents” even when the accident is directly attributable to the behaviour of a motorist. More attention must be given to the cause of the accident & as Dr Lamb found nearly half of accident reports are not complete which challenges the accuracy of existing data.

The fleet size has tripled if not quadrupled since the late 80’s and is growing faster than ever due to the hike in fuel costs. Yet motorcyclists now make up only 9 percent of all road users injured, compared to 21 percent in the early and mid-1980s. Perhaps the truth is the change from pay-as-you-go to fully funded model plus a move to ACC being a perk sell off to insurance companies is a more accurate explanation for their requirement for extra levies.

Motorcyclists are attending more training than ever. Information on, and availability of, good quality safety gear has never been more than it is now. Yet the levy stands, while other vehicles that have previously had raised levies now face a reduction, despite there being no evidence of any reduction in the costs these vehicle types incur on an annual basis and even less evidence of any extra training undertaken by these road users.

Local councils, Police and ACC are subsidising training and safety courses all over New Zealand and these courses are fully booked within days of announcement. Motorcyclists nationwide have taken to these training sessions at a very high uptake rate and it is not slowing down – in fact demand for more courses is increasing, and groups like Ulysses and BRONZ have created mentor programs and have for some time hosted beginner confidence rides organised to improve the standard of rider ability from day one. Bikers across the country are taking every opportunity available to up-skill themselves to become better and safer riders - yet this is not recognised by the very organisation that’s helping to sponsor the training. The levy remains unchanged.
In deciding to lower the levies for the 2014/2015 year, ACC had an opportunity to show motorcyclists that you recognised, appreciated and supported their involvement. This of course has been exacerbated – in the eyes of many motorcyclists - by your recent notice of a significant unbudgeted surplus of $3.6 billion. You could share it around & not use it as a back door revenue perk for the govt in addition to the dividend they are already paid. A 15% reduction in the motorcycle levy based on having earned it, not as of right, would cost at the 600cc plus rate & 110,000 vehicles, less than only 0.229% of the $3.6 billion surplus & no doubt the amount for other vehicles would be well covered with some to spare.

Discrimination does not exist in the earners a/c where an estimated cost is divided equally. In the motor vehicle a/c, following the insurance concept of greater risk through increased use is a commercial insurance way to maximise their profit & contravenes the fair & equitable original concept of ACC levies.
The same formula of total estimated cost divided by numbers of vehicles applied to the vehicle a/c would remove any discrimination & promote an attitude of equal responsibility for staying safe, rather than a she’ll be right it is not my problem attitude.

As to how the levy is collected changing to a petrol/diesel levy or license based would solve a lot of problems with the present system included with registration.
1) Every vehicle uses fuel regardless of being registered or driver licensed.
2) The amount would be affordable rather than a lump sum.
3) There would be no need to pay an ACC levy as part of registration on each vehicle owned, whether driven or not.
4) The levy would still be collected when the vehicle is driven. Also one person cannot drive multiple vehicles at the same time.
Whatever the formula it would be more effective overall combined with road safety initiatives & road re-engineering or added infrastructure. This may not be the individual responsibility of ACC but it is part of their problem. The performance of other departments is directly affecting accident & injury rates, so the responsibility is interconnected.
Because the ACC system is supposed to operate as a “No-fault” however, system we face a double whammy. Injury accidents that involve motorcyclists seem to be classed as “motorcycle accidents” even when the accident is directly attributable to the behaviour of a motorist.
To further the application of a level playing field & fairness to all, make the 15% reduction to other vehicles conditional on regularly taking driver training refresher courses, as has already been done indirectly to motorcyclists through the $30 motorcycle safety levy for each vehicle.
To not disadvantage owners of more than one motorcycle I propose the $30 safety levy be a one-time payment against the drivers licence, as there is not double the benefit for owners of more than one vehicle.
It follows that motorcyclists’ responsible attitude to self preservation be rewarded with the same 15% reduction as other vehicle classes.
This could only be a win-win situation for ACC.

The effectiveness of MOTONZ has been severely limited to minor issues & seems to be regarded as an ‘uncle tom’ front to push measures that only fiddle with the problem or are a token effort without solving any issue but are pretending something has been done.
Safety barrier design/ ‘cheese cutter’ wire rope barriers is one such issue that has been recognised overseas & either banned or replaced with something safer. These are proven practical low cost measures implemented to reduce death & injury to motorcyclists. There is ample credible research literature on this that seems to be ignored in NZ
The usual excuses of ‘It is another departments responsibility, there is no funding, or it is not in the budget’ are an avoidance of responsibility bordering on negligent.
It points to a need to coordinate departments & change preconceptions without creating another tax gobbling govt department, perhaps by including MOTONZ at a much higher level in the planning & decision making process.

As an example of coordinating departments: Most situations like repairs or accidents are unplanned & happen while the vehicles are registered. There is no facility available to put active registration on hold while the vehicle is not being used on the road & still retain the unused portion for future use. It is an unnecessary & increasingly unaffordable extra expense. A facility to put this unusable registration on hold, say in modules of one month, would ultimately lead to a safer & more compliant vehicle fleet.

Once registration has expired it can only be put on hold for a minimum of three months. If a repair or whatever takes only one month, it adds $41.53 to the cost of not using a vehicle if reregistered before the three months. If two months $83.06 added, if two months 29 days $123.20 added. This is an unacceptable & increasingly unaffordable added cost to an already expensive situation. Again modules of one month would be more user friendly than having to wait for the three months, or worse using the vehicle unregistered for that time. Again, such a facility would lead to a safer & more compliant vehicle fleet, as well as optimising revenue.

Increasing the levy for scooters & some other bikes has destroyed the cost advantage for the budget user. Scooters & motorcycles are an essential part of reducing peak time congestion with savings to govt from less need for new infrastructure.
Having a cc rating scale is not the answer for a fair spread of the levy.
For example a 650cc vehicle pays the top levy rate for an extra 50cc. However ltsa changing to a power to weight ratio for learner motorcycles also has some 650cc & larger motorcycles classed as learner approved motorcycles (LAM). Regardless of ability, this highlights the grossly unfair situation of a low power vehicle with a PTW less than some 250cc bikes, paying the top ACC rate designed to cover larger capacity sports bikes.
As manufacturers have to provide PTW figures for each vehicle, it would be easy for ACC to amend the existing classes to more fairly reflect the capability of each vehicle. Don’t wait until next year, do it now.