Mountain bikes

[Paul in NZ]

OK - Just a top of mind rant - probably cabin fever from too many wet weekends...

Vicki was doing a few gentle rides with her mates. All women of a certain age and all having a bunch of fun… Nex minit she arrives home with two basic entry level mountain bikes and a heap of cycling related munt. (yes – actually you really DO need those padded shorts)

Now I have no problem with this – in fact I’m rather enjoying it… Except I’m starting out from mountain bike basement zero… And it appears that as you learn a bit more you suddenly find that the guy who sold you the bike in the first place may have been a little less than honest… and basically fitted us up with some hard to sell / inappropriate for use stuff that he had in stock.
Still – I can’t blame him as I wasn’t there and Vicki is also starting from zero so couldn’t know the difference.. Definitely not all his fault… We should have done a bit more research.

But like a Charlie I went back and explained the problem – said that I accepted that as a purchaser we took responsibility but that I would be in the market for another bike … (happy to keep the first one as its great on the road – nice and roomy) Basically the bike is way too big for me to ride off road and I keep falling off it (admittedly I keep trying to do shit I have no ability in but that’s ok)

Ok – now there were a lot of places this guy could have gone. But he immediately steers me to something else that I am pretty sure is inappropriate and then starts spouting shit. No apology – no we will look after you and give you a deal on a second bike (like who ever pays rrp for a bloody bicycle – you can get 40% just farting in a cycle store) or even suggests a test ride or tries to help out in any way with advice… huh? Shit no wonder people buy shit on line…. Honestly I might know shit all about bikes but he was just spouting bollocks… I left totally pissed off… and I won't be going back...

Anyway – been to a few other places and only had good experiences. I mean one place are just hopelessly organised I'd be scared to buy a bike off them but they are SO enthusiastic with advice and on cycling and fall over themselves trying to help its embarrassing. If nothing else its a fun place to visit...

One thing I have learnt – trademe bikes are horrendously overpriced. Yeah mate it might have had an rrp of $1000 when you bought it 4 years back but you can buy better now for half that – new… Weird… I getting very disillusioned with it all…

[avgas]

Best piece of advice I got was "go to the track, see what others bought.......if you can see more than 1 generation at the track of the same bike - buy that".

FYI if someone in Auckland is interested in some dirt cheap MTB's and a bike rack let me know. I have a couple of quality semi-classics (10 years old) that need to be gone before I leave NZ.

[Paul in NZ]

Best piece of advice I got was "go to the track, see what others bought.......if you can see more than 1 generation at the track of the same bike - buy that".

FYI if someone in Auckland is interested in some dirt cheap MTB's and a bike rack let me know. I have a couple of quality semi-classics (10 years old) that need to be gone before I leave NZ.

Thanks for the advice - probably not up to going to a track just yet... Thus far the whole thing has been horribly intimidating... Should have taken up surfing, I hear those guys are really welcoming to beginners lol....

[carbonhed]

Well it's been ages since I raced MTB's so I'm out of touch... but I'd start looking at something like this in an appropriate size :-

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/cycling/mountain-bikes/front-suspension/auction-642022430.htm

[Gremlin]

After a lot of years off from cycling - I did school team time trialling etc, custom built road bikes etc, I gave it all away as engines were... easier :yes:

In May I finally got myself a sort of entry level but good quality mountain bike to try and regain some fitness (yeah, that easier thing has downsides). No way I'm interested in going on the road without an engine, but riding around on bike paths, walkways, and after a bit of time, some forest stuff, I reckoned getting some fitness while going places a motorbike can't, was going to be a good idea. No, I'm now old enough to realise that throwing myself down a hill at break neck speed (and that's probably literal) pretending to ride the bike, is not an appealing thought, so I'll stick to simple stuff.

Now... having purchased it in May, I've managed to make myself busy since... :blink: Really should buck up and get on the damn thing. I'm actually really impressed with the number of areas made available to mountain bikes for recreational riding.

Plenty of pedal bikers on here anyway, so plenty of advice can be offered. My preference was some front suspension but didn't need any on the rear yet. Oh, be prepared to have your mind blown on the number of options and features. Disc brakes didn't exist when I last cycled, and any suspension was a luxury. I got a Kona Cinder Cone, $800, TM had them a while back.

[sil3nt]

I wouldn't spend more than $1000 if you are new to the game. Also 29ers (linked above) look ridiculous :bleh:

I picked up a GT avalanche new for around $900. Very similar to the cinder cone Gremlin has. They can handle anything that doesn't involve landing heavy (small jumps and drops will be ok).

Bikebarn and evolution cycles always have 1/2 price sales. Service at both places can be a little average in my experience though.

Sadly I have become addicted to MTB'ing and am about to spend more than I did for any of my motorbikes :weird:

[sil3nt]

My recommendations:
http://evolutioncycles.co.nz/must-go/2013-cannondale-trail-SL-29'er-4
http://evolutioncycles.co.nz/must-go/2013-GT-Avalanche-1.0

But your down in Welly? So you will have to trust buying online. I can at least vouch for the Avalanche being an awesome cross country bike :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sadly I have become addicted to MTB'ing and am about to spend more than I did for any of my motorbikes :weird:

You should be banned from the site until you recify that.:spanking:

[carbonhed]

Also 29ers (linked above) look ridiculous :bleh:


:laugh: very true. Didn't have them back in my day.

[MisterD]

FYI if someone in Auckland is interested in some dirt cheap MTB's and a bike rack let me know. I have a couple of quality semi-classics (10 years old) that need to be gone before I leave NZ.

Could be, could be. I'm especially looking for either some short-travel forks that will go on my un-corrected geometry frame, or a frame & fork combo that I can swap all my singlespeed bits over to. I've been completely stumped by an inability to find an adapter to re-pressurise my Quake forks.


Also 29ers (linked above) look ridiculous :bleh:

Oh hell no. I love mine, takes a bit more to accelerate, but if you're over both 6' tall and 40 years of age they're the go.

[sil3nt]

I am going 650b next so I can be a cool kid :tugger:

Never tried a 29er and don't really want to. I do understand they are useful for taller riders.

[Gremlin]

I'm 6' + and stayed with 26... frame isn't much smaller at 22 ;)

Better compatibility for stuff I reckoned, and there will be ongoing support because it's common. Sure enough, 29 looks like a fad with some manufacturers now dropping 29 entirely I believe...

[carbonhed]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?

[scissorhands]

Emotive noobs are salesmen's bread and butter.
I fend them off as best I can, but end up bailing most stores with nothing, due to those annoying pricks

Buy an unsprung $70 18 speed and ride around and around the block on the grass verge and over kerbs until your fit and ready for something better.

I chose the 3km loop road in cornwall park to get up to speed, and perfected all the jumps and tricks it offered. Beginner heaven. Then I went to the summit via the paddocks and sheep tracks

Building muscle and loosing fat is the current primary focus?
The larger frame low end bike you have now, is probably then ideal for your current needs till you go off-road?
Maybe Vicki chose wisely and got you both GN250's?

[sil3nt]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?SLX is in there somewhere as well.

These days everything performs at a good enough level that you only end up paying for better features and lighter weight.

[Paul in NZ]

Building muscle and loosing fat is the current primary focus?
The larger frame low end bike you have now, is probably then ideal for your current needs till you go off-road?
Maybe Vicki chose wisely and got you both GN250's?

ha - well - I'm probably fitter than you imagine - probably why I'm a tad frustrated with what I have.... No - I use the gym for my fitness 'goals' and bike is just fun... Did a 22km trail ride easy peasy and enjoyed it...

[nzspokes]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?

Wow you are old. :p

But yeah its XTR, XT, SLX, Deore and some other cheap stuff with a couple of DH groups in there to.

[jim.cox]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?

Way back when God and I were young...

Campagnolo was (and still is) the peak of perfection, especially Super Record

Suntour Superb came next

You could have had Shimano Dura-ace if you were desperate

Then all the rest....

[nzspokes]

Way back when God and I were young...

Campagnolo was (and still is) the peak of perfection, especially Super Record

Suntour Superb came next

You could have had Shimano Dura-ace if you were desperate

Then all the rest....

Some of us have a Campy tool kit at our disposal. :woohoo:

But can you name Campys MTB group?

[jim.cox]

Some of us have a Campy tool kit at our disposal. :woohoo:

But can you name Campys MTB group?

Euclid?

I've still got most of my Campag tools - not that they fit much these days

[carbonhed]

Way back when God and I were young...

Campagnolo was (and still is) the peak of perfection, especially Super Record

Suntour Superb came next

You could have had Shimano Dura-ace if you were desperate

Then all the rest....

Suddenly I don't feel so old :laugh:

[nzspokes]

Euclid?

I've still got most of my Campag tools - not that they fit much these days

Thats the one. Looked better than it worked.

I used some of the Campy dropout tools yesterday. But yes they dont fit much now. Still nice to look at.

[scissorhands]

ha - well - I'm probably fitter than you imagine - probably why I'm a tad frustrated with what I have.... No - I use the gym for my fitness 'goals' and bike is just fun... Did a 22km trail ride easy peasy and enjoyed it...

My bad, I'm a fat prick now, sorry to project that onto you
I sense your really angry at Vicki, but need to hate the sales staff instead. If your selling some of the girls old seats give me a PM

[jim.cox]

Looked better than it worked.

Typical Italian sculpture for you.

[avgas]

Could be, could be. I'm especially looking for either some short-travel forks that will go on my un-corrected geometry frame, or a frame & fork combo that I can swap all my singlespeed bits over to. I've been completely stumped by an inability to find an adapter to re-pressurise my Quake forks.
I have an ol barracuda frame with some RockShox 100's (the originals) - but you will need to find some wizardry to rebuild those shocks. They are true, just sealed and locked. No allen bolt on the bottom unfortunately. But suit uncorrected geometry. The cuda is 18" as was my racer WAAAAAY back when I raced. It a frame with bit bolted on still. A dead relic :)

The other 2 are actually complete runners that I bought and sorted out for the weekend blat. A small-to-mid-frame Giant ATX890 that I bought just to return to former glory. Probably to repay my sins to the biker gods for gutting the cuda.
The other is just a generic hardtail. Which I put some platforms on to make it better controlled. Nothing fancy - but the newest of the lot and still works good.

[HenryDorsetCase]

One thing I have learnt – trademe bikes are horrendously overpriced. Yeah mate it might have had an rrp of $1000 when you bought it 4 years back but you can buy better now for half that – new… Weird… I getting very disillusioned with it all…

I used to be quite the keen mountainbiker. in fact have been thinking about doing a few rides this summer. the issue I have is the people I know are all HELL keen and fit as fuck. and riding expensive kit.

My advice FWIW is think about the sort of riding you want to do and get something for that. Full suspension is cool and all but there is a maintenance impost, a price impost and they might be a bit heavier.

The wagon wheels are all real popular too (29 inch wheel). I went into the Specialized shop for a geeze and the only 26 inch wheel mtb they had there was their full on DH bike (ten grand sticker.....)

Disc brakes are DEFINITELY worth having. rear cassettes at the upper end now seem to be 11 speed... but they only run two up front. I want my granny gear dammit.

and secondhand you really do have to be wary...

It might pay to get a bike fit done when you buy the thing. just so you dont fuck your back up and its comfy and nice to ride.

I would recommend flat pedals too. rather than clipped in or toe straps.

[HenryDorsetCase]

:laugh: very true. Didn't have them back in my day.

Its just the biggest fad ever. stupidest trend with zero upside for anyone. Particularly a small fat angry man with a 28 inch inseam *(SWIM :shifty: )

[HenryDorsetCase]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?

SRAM

Rohloff..... best bit of mtb kit I ever owned and the only bit I regret selling.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I have an ol barracuda frame with some RockShox 100's (the originals) - but you will need to find some wizardry to rebuild those shocks. They are true, just sealed and locked. No allen bolt on the bottom unfortunately. But suit uncorrected geometry. The cuda is 18" as was my racer WAAAAAY back when I raced. It a frame with bit bolted on still. A dead relic :)



is it 1 inch threaded or 1 and an eighth A head? Ive got a set of Manitou 3's on the wall in the garage. the elastomers turned into a kind of coloured powder.....

[neels]

Back in my day the top Shimano componentry was XTR then XT, Deore and Exige. How is that organised these days? What other breeds are there?Still have some exage bits sitting around the garage somewhere


I used to be quite the keen mountainbiker. in fact have been thinking about doing a few rides this summer. the issue I have is the people I know are all HELL keen and fit as fuck.

I want my granny gear dammit.
You too huh

probably reasonable to suggest that a bike that fits is more important than how much bling it has

[Paul in NZ]

I used to be quite the keen mountainbiker. in fact have been thinking about doing a few rides this summer. the issue I have is the people I know are all HELL keen and fit as fuck. and riding expensive kit.

My advice FWIW is think about the sort of riding you want to do and get something for that. Full suspension is cool and all but there is a maintenance impost, a price impost and they might be a bit heavier.

The wagon wheels are all real popular too (29 inch wheel). I went into the Specialized shop for a geeze and the only 26 inch wheel mtb they had there was their full on DH bike (ten grand sticker.....)

Disc brakes are DEFINITELY worth having. rear cassettes at the upper end now seem to be 11 speed... but they only run two up front. I want my granny gear dammit.

and secondhand you really do have to be wary...

It might pay to get a bike fit done when you buy the thing. just so you dont fuck your back up and its comfy and nice to ride.

I would recommend flat pedals too. rather than clipped in or toe straps.

Thanks - more the kind of advice I was fishing for...

If you don't have your own youtube channel and a $10,000 bike its really hard to even catch the eye of a salesperson which is odd as I'll bet their bread an butter are kids bikes, scooters and cheaper bikes to noobs like us...

Yes - my wish list is better suspenders with lock out, disc brakes and a smaller frame / shorter stem. I will keep the bike I have as while its too big for me (its an XL) off road its great on the road as I have a lot of room on it. I will definately find something this side of xmas I'm sure...

What kicked this off was a spin on son in laws down hill bike - OMG.. it just floated over stuff....

[Paul in NZ]

My bad, I'm a fat prick now, sorry to project that onto you
I sense your really angry at Vicki, but need to hate the sales staff instead. If your selling some of the girls old seats give me a PM

Meh - no worries. I still carry a little more body fat than I'd like but with all the other health issues its not easy to cut the last bits to become super lean. I break my training up into 3 month segments and set a goal each time but I'm floundering a bit for the next one at the mo... Being older I don't put on muscle like a 20 year old as I'm not making testosterone like I was but I do OK for an old guy. Being bloody minded really helps....

No - certainly not angry at Vicki and even if I was it wouldnt last long. Shes really a wonderful person and I don't know anyone that can stay mad at her for more than 10 mins... God knows what she sees in me... I'm disappointed that my local bike shop rather took advantage of her and then given the chance to at least help out with some proper advice couldn't help but try and stiff us a second time... (obviously more to it than can be put into a single post)

You honestly would be better off ordering online than going there - at least you would know whos to blame when it went wrong...

[avgas]

is it 1 inch threaded or 1 and an eighth A head? Ive got a set of Manitou 3's on the wall in the garage. the elastomers turned into a kind of coloured powder.....
Good question. I believe 1"......but will see if I have verniers at home to confirm.

[MisterD]

Good question. I believe 1"......but will see if I have verniers at home to confirm.

It's 1" if you have the old two nuts on a threaded steerer setup, 1 1/8" if it's got a central bolt to a star nut inside the steerer.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've seen a few NOS RockShox go on tardme (for stupid money) but you will be able to get bits for them to rebuild: like motorbike parts if not in NZ (the distros are notoriously useless) then online. easier of course if it has coil springs rather than air.

If all you are doing is restoring your now "classic" racebike so you can do the Sunday coffee cruise and bullshit about how fast you were**, probably thats all thats required. If the groupset isn't completely rooted then it will probably be OK for that.

8speed FTW!

**very comparable with motorbikes in a lot of ways, innit

[Paul in NZ]

**very comparable with motorbikes in a lot of ways, innit

As in the whole industry is set up to suck every last dollar out of you and still leave you hungry for more - yes...

[avgas]

It's 1" if you have the old two nuts on a threaded steerer setup, 1 1/8" if it's got a central bolt to a star nut inside the steerer.
hmmmmm sounds like it might be 1 1/8 then......

I've seen a few NOS RockShox go on tardme (for stupid money) but you will be able to get bits for them to rebuild: like motorbike parts if not in NZ (the distros are notoriously useless) then online. easier of course if it has coil springs rather than air.
If all you are doing is restoring your now "classic" racebike so you can do the Sunday coffee cruise and bullshit about how fast you were**, probably thats all thats required. If the groupset isn't completely rooted then it will probably be OK for that.
8speed FTW!
**very comparable with motorbikes in a lot of ways, innit
Really? Why? I was just hanging onto the frame/forks to make a coffee table. It was never a great setup - just all I could afford (borrow) at the time. Not ever going to restore the cuda. Likewise I was never that competitive (or good). Fast enough to crash, if I didn't crash I usually get somewhere.......but I always crashed. I think my best ranking in NZ was 22nd.......and only 14 crashes in a season.

Now days I still have 50% of the skill........but only 10% of the stamina and I swear my balls got smaller also. So good enough to beat the poser on his new FSR using a $80 Marin hard-tail......but not good enough to race or justify spending $1000 on a bike.

I miss my Wheeler 4000ZX - was a great bike. But sold it when I had a kid. It bought a stroller.

[HenryDorsetCase]

As in the whole industry is set up to suck every last dollar out of you and still leave you hungry for more - yes...

its my boys toys hypothesis. Doesnt matter what sort of boys toy it is, someone will always have their hand in your pocket and saying "But for just a bit more you can get X which is a massive qualitative improvement over Y which you are looking at" "All your mates have X and you dont want to show up with Y and they will all giggle. You should probably get Z which is better than their x and make them all jealous"

[avgas]

FYI if someone in Auckland is interested in some dirt cheap MTB's and a bike rack let me know. I have a couple of quality semi-classics (10 years old) that need to be gone before I leave NZ.
For those interested..... will put the rack up later.
Barracuda Skeleton - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644598134
Marin Hardtail - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644596477
ATX980 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644595379

[Latte]

probably reasonable to suggest that a bike that fits is more important than how much bling it has

Blasphemer!

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/cycling/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/auction-645038802.htm


awwww yisss

[GSW]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/cycling/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/auction-645038802.htm


awwww yisss

Waaaay back when they were new ... I had one... and then broke it .. and ended up with my first Foes ..

I have a bike hanging in the garage where its been for the last 4 years (since my first boy was born)

And get out on that bike and do some of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O46HJbbIWlA

[nzspokes]

and ended up with my first Foes ..



How long did you have it before it cracked?:killingme




Sorry, bike mechanic joke.

[GSW]

How long did you have it before it cracked?:killingme




Sorry, bike mechanic joke.

I have seen a dude rip his BB out on his foes on a 2 foot step up.. funny as.

Nope I haven't had one crack on me yet

[avgas]

For those interested..... will put the rack up later.
Barracuda Skeleton - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644598134
Marin Hardtail - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644596477
ATX980 - http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=644595379
Here is the rack:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=645416840&ed=true

[avgas]

I always like the Avanti Moto.......but they were like $5000 in 90's money when they existed. Never seen one outside of the 90's.

Anyone owned a Keewee Chromozone? I used to drool over them also.

[T.W.R]

Couple of weeks earlier for the thread and you could have had this cheap :yes:

Mostly all new bits & few rebuilt, but all in all solid as without stupidly over priced fragile shiny shit :msn-wink:

[Paul in NZ]

That looks flash as mate - Sadly I've just about given up on mountain biking or buying another bike. Its just to hard to get any sense out of anyone... They range from the disinterested to the decidedly shonky

Plus we are flat out busy with other stuff.

[eelracing]

That looks flash as mate - Sadly I've just about given up on mountain biking or buying another bike. Its just to hard to get any sense out of anyone... They range from the disinterested to the decidedly shonky

You sound disillusioned Paul,just get out and ride the fucken thing.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh yup - doing that and loving it in my silly old coot bumbling fashion but its as frustrating as hell knowing I could do a lot more with a bit of a leg up. Fact is i just dont have $10,000 to spend on a bloody bike to get these clowns attention. Most of my budget was blown on some really BAD advice on day 1. I just want an improvement on what I have so I get a little better. I don't care about weight much as its not like I'm racing the thing so I'm thinking smaller frame, better brakes and suspension and go from there. Just some affordable ability - anyway, probably just keep crashing my way to success.... Being 6' and riding an XL frame seems to be a bad combo...

I'll also call my younger bro. Hes a whizz on cycles as in hes just back from world masters road cycling in Italy - he did OK too for a first time on a course that was definately not suited to him...

[nzspokes]

PM me if you want some advise on what you have and what you think you should have. Its my trade.

[T.W.R]

That looks flash as mate - Sadly I've just about given up on mountain biking or buying another bike. Its just to hard to get any sense out of anyone... They range from the disinterested to the decidedly shonky

Plus we are flat out busy with other stuff.

I sort of did the same thing...built that up after years away from cycling, took it for 1 ride and thought nah I'm goin to put myself in hospital with this thing :laugh: safer option was just to keep away from DH bikes.
Just wished they'd been more abundant back in the mid 80s when I gave road cycling away :facepalm: only took that up because I out grew BMX & the cruiser class (fore runner of mountain bikes) was :puke:

That thing was a 07 Specialized BigHit III NOS frame with a mix of AtomLab, Truvativ, & SRAM parts Marzocchi forks etc. Only took a couple of months to gather the bits by selective buying and simple as piss to assemble and a trip down memory lane as it was the 1st trade I learnt or had to learn to keep an obsession paid for :facepalm:
Used to spend stupid money on pushies keeping up with the latest trends at the time.....raced a Vitus with all the Campag, Modolo, Marvic gear :laugh: even my training bike was a custom built Eddie Bosomworth :doh:

[Big Dave]

Mountain schmountain.

http://www.ratrodbikes.com/

[sil3nt]

Oh yup - doing that and loving it in my silly old coot bumbling fashion but its as frustrating as hell knowing I could do a lot more with a bit of a leg up. Fact is i just dont have $10,000 to spend on a bloody bike to get these clowns attention. Most of my budget was blown on some really BAD advice on day 1. I just want an improvement on what I have so I get a little better. I don't care about weight much as its not like I'm racing the thing so I'm thinking smaller frame, better brakes and suspension and go from there. Just some affordable ability - anyway, probably just keep crashing my way to success.... Being 6' and riding an XL frame seems to be a bad combo...

I'll also call my younger bro. Hes a whizz on cycles as in hes just back from world masters road cycling in Italy - he did OK too for a first time on a course that was definately not suited to him...It is simple really. Tell us your budget and the sort of riding you plan on doing and I am sure everyone in this thread could easily point you in the right direction.

Here are my suggestions for buying new at full price.
If your budget is less than $2000 I wouldn't bother getting a full suspension bike. A decent HT is much better than an average FS bike.

If you can stretch more than $2000 you can get a decent entry level FS XC bike. Will handle everything but large jumps and you can ride all day easily. Something like the brand new Giant Anthem:
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/anthem.27.5.3/14824/66144/

If you think you will be doing more downhill than cross country and want something that will handle the rough stuff a little better then you can go with this:
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.27.5.3/14833/66291/

These Giant bikes are brand new and might not be in the country yet. Go to R&RSport if you have one close by as they will stock them. I find they are often be better than specialist bike stores.

If these are way out of your budget then trademe is your best bet. Bike stores often have 1/2 price sales but like you have found they will just try and sell you whatever they have in stock.