1989 CBR250 vs VFR400

[Tazz]

Hey guys,

got one of those annoying as fark posts regarding a newbie and which bike would suit best.

I'm about 1.8m tall and I think about 75kg at the moment but I fluctuate between 65 and 80.

Looking at these two:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=598767737

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=639979975

Not sure about a 250 as I do a lot of running between Chch and Picton but my mate has a CBR and said it's up to that sort of riding no problemo, but a broader opinion from you lot would be appreciated.

Whatever I get will be my first bike so after something I won't worry too much about dropping and so long as I have enough power to overtake comfortably I don't really care about speed as I do most my 'driving' in the corners.

I've basically narrowed it down to these two models and as I have to fork out for leathers and the like as well the prices are around what I'd like to spend, BUT, is the 400cc worth the extra rego and insurance cost compared to the difference (if any) it would make on the open road?

I had been looking at cruisers and the like as well so I'm open to a curveball if anyone wants to throw it, don't care what it looks like (I own a QT50 if that is anything to go by) so long as it does the job.

Cheers!

Taz

[tigertim20]

Ive owned both models. Id have the VFR.
Id want to get the price down though

[sil3nt]

VFR 400 is not learner legal and will be expensive if you drop it.

CBR 250 will have plenty enough power and won't be quite so expensive to drop (parts more common still not cheap though)

[Tazz]

Yeah I'm working on the learner legal problem but good point, should have the application through tonight. I did just originally assume it would be on the list but fingers crossed I can get it put on there myself.


Ive owned both models. Id have the VFR.
Id want to get the price down though

All going well the price would be down on both. Why would you take the VFR? Simply the power?

Also, I'm new to the market but that CBR price doesn't seem to bad? What do you guys think. The 90-93 RR's seem to be the sought after, but I'm not to phased about that.

[tigertim20]

Yeah I'm working on the learner legal problem but good point, should have the application through tonight. I did just originally assume it would be on the list but fingers crossed I can get it put on there myself.



All going well the price would be down on both. Why would you take the VFR? Simply the power?

Also, I'm new to the market but that CBR price doesn't seem to bad? What do you guys think. The 90-93 RR's seem to be the sought after, but I'm not to phased about that.

I only had a brief look at the links, so Im not saying necessarily that THAT vfr is better than THAT cbr, just which model I would rather.

as for why id pick that model, as mentioned, Ive had both so I know MY preference. the vfr was great in the corners, sounded awesome (I think its exhaust had been debaffled and it really did sound awesome!) and it had a bit more grunt (I like power) both were fairly similar to me in comfort terms (Im about 183cm I think) and at the time I weighed around 90kg. I dont recall fuel economy being too far apart, the cbr was better on gas, but to be honest fuel economy has never once been on my list of questions when it comes to buying a bike.

[tigertim20]

forgot to answer your value question. the price on the cbr is probably pretty good. alot of people seem to think they are still worth 4-5k. theyre not.
2.5k is a pretty reasonable price provided she's all mechanically sound.
Id not want to go over 3k tops for the vfr based on pictures etc.

Both have fairly solid engines too that will take a bit of punishment

[sil3nt]

Yeah I'm working on the learner legal problem but good point, should have the application through tonight. I did just originally assume it would be on the list but fingers crossed I can get it put on there myself.Sorry but why would they put it on? I am fairly sure it is outside the power to weight ratio.

(42KW / 160kg + 90kg) * 1000 = 160kw per tonne

Limit is 150kw

[Tazz]

Oh man I have been given some different figures, must of been the wrong year or something :facepalm: Will have to check back through.
Phark. Was easier on the gray matter when it was just 250 max and that was that.

I'll double check what I have, but I guess it makes this all a bit redundant :brick:

Cheers for your opinion on the VRF though Tim. Food for thought as there are other comparable approved Hondas.
And even though I'm new to it all I wouldn't be paying 4-5k for one of them either, but I think good examples will always be worth a bit due to the hype around them. They already command a bit of a classic status/following by the looks.

[Ender EnZed]

That CBR looks reasonable enough for the money but as with any 24 year old bike it'd pay to have someone who knows what they're doing check it out. If it runs like it ought to you'll manage a regular Chch-Picton run easily enough on it.

The VFR400 is not and will not be learner legal. The slightly faster RVF400 is but only because Honda lied about it's power for domestic reasons in the 90s.

[ducatilover]

Just get the VFR, they're good for the soul

Or buy a beige GS500, you'll probably enjoy it a wee bit more on long trips like that. VFR/CBR are cramped and only long distance-able if you're tiny and fucked in the head like myself

[breakaway]

VFRs are overpriced, would stay away.

Just get this imo http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-195544085.htm

[Tazz]

Just get this imo http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/sports/auction-195544085.htm

Yeah nah. I'm comfortable with the size of my schlong thanks XD

Cheers for all the input guys, appreciate it. Will let you know what I end up with.

[Phleep]

I have done the Christchurch to Picton route many times on a vt250 and GS500 and had no problem with either. it is a very easy route for the weaker bikes due to the lack of hills so comfort should be your priority.

I also have ridden from Picton to Nelson on a vt250 and VFR400 and, apart from my dodgy HT cables letting me down in a heavy fog, the VFR was much more willing on the hills. Not a perfect comparison as I had a pillion heavier than myself on the VT which caused it to overheat on the steeper hills but those things are very passive bikes.

Overall I find the VFR easier to ride due to its very forgiving low end power so it has less chopping and changing to do than an inline. Just have to make sure you consciously give your wrists a rest before they start aching.

[Tazz]

Well ended up with a 250. Only complaint is a farking cold nutsack and the slip and the slide that is called a seat, but both easily fixed problems =D

Have only had diesels for the last decade so it will take a bit to get used to revving the tits off it to get around as there is bugger all torque mid revs it seems. Bloody good fun though and wish I took the plunge years ago =D

Cheers for all the input guys.

[tigertim20]

Well ended up with a 250. Only complaint is a farking cold nutsack and the slip and the slide that is called a seat, but both easily fixed problems =D

Have only had diesels for the last decade so it will take a bit to get used to revving the tits off it to get around as there is bugger all torque mid revs it seems. Bloody good fun though and wish I took the plunge years ago =D

Cheers for all the input guys.

what model did ya get exactly? pics!!!

[eSOL]

Well ended up with a 250. Only complaint is a farking cold nutsack and the slip and the slide that is called a seat, but both easily fixed problems =D

Have only had diesels for the last decade so it will take a bit to get used to revving the tits off it to get around as there is bugger all torque mid revs it seems. Bloody good fun though and wish I took the plunge years ago =D

Cheers for all the input guys.



Yea buddy! CBRs fuckin own!. Would definitely have gotten the RVF400 if that was available though. Dat dere single side swingarm....

[Tazz]

what model did ya get exactly? pics!!!

Went with the herd and got a clapped out MC22 = D First run was down the Queen Charlotte Drive which was good to get to know the bike at a slower speed, deal with a massive crosswind, drivers on the wrong side of the road, road works, flowing water on some of the faster corners, suicidal birds (nothing big) and a couple of other things to help build confidence. Also discovered how shit the headlights are. Can keep them on high beam and no one flashes lol.

I've always been sweet as cutting close/extremely close to other traffic in the Safari but man it puts the shits up me on a bike if I have to do it without a choice XD

Been to busy riding to get many pictures but I've got one terrible one from out at Omaka

288683


Yea buddy! CBRs fuckin own!. Would definitely have gotten the RVF400 if that was available though. Dat dere single side swingarm....

VFR was the other one I was looking at ;) The only RVF I looked at (just on tardme) was out of my price range.

[Tazz]

Was trying to upload those other pics for something else at the same time, not sure how to get rid of them now XD

Edit: OK, nailed it. Can't delete this now =/

[HenryDorsetCase]

VFR 400 is not learner legal and will be expensive if you drop it.

CBR 250 will have plenty enough power and won't be quite so expensive to drop (parts more common still not cheap though)

really weird innit? VFR400R NC30 no LAMS VFR400R NC35 is LAMS.

I presently own 1.5 VFR400's and they are fantastic bikes. Mine is a trackbike though. They are supposed to have 58-60horsepowers from new.

[tigertim20]

Went with the herd and got a clapped out MC22 = D First run was down the Queen Charlotte Drive which was good to get to know the bike at a slower speed, deal with a massive crosswind, drivers on the wrong side of the road, road works, flowing water on some of the faster corners, suicidal birds (nothing big) and a couple of other things to help build confidence. Also discovered how shit the headlights are. Can keep them on high beam and no one flashes lol.

I've always been sweet as cutting close/extremely close to other traffic in the Safari but man it puts the shits up me on a bike if I have to do it without a choice XD

Been to busy riding to get many pictures but I've got one terrible one from out at Omaka

attached image removed
nice one. now make sure you give her a service before ya get excited and ride her too far. check brake pads, air filter, do an oil and filter change, check/lube chain, and look at ya sprockets, and flush/replace coolant an brake fluid, god knows how long its been since its actually had this stuff done!
Good fun little bikes, but queen charlotte drive isnt really an ideal learner road (I grew up around there). good, fairly easy rides are blenheim - picton, or blenheim havelock, etc, find some open, swoopy roads so you can go get your confidence up without being on a narrow ass goat track with no run off room!


VFR was the other one I was looking at ;) The only RVF I looked at (just on tardme) was out of my price range.


really weird innit? VFR400R NC30 no LAMS VFR400R NC35 is LAMS.

I presently own 1.5 VFR400's and they are fantastic bikes. Mine is a trackbike though. They are supposed to have 58-60horsepowers from new.
Honda fudged the numbers on the RVF400 back in the day for something to do with meeting JDM rules or some shit, thus the RVF = lams compliant even though it has more power than it says on the manufacturers claimed specs, and the humble vfr isnt. fuckin stupid because theyre great bikes

[Glowerss]

I can't be arsed to check, but how close are the vfr 400s to the limit? If they're slightly over, you can make the case that if you filled it with fluids it would be LAMS compliant.

Worked for Coleman's to get shit like the SV400 and CB400SFs lams compliant when they're over the limit. Might require you to be a stealership though :baby:

[tigertim20]

I can't be arsed to check, but how close are the vfr 400s to the limit? If they're slightly over, you can make the case that if you filled it with fluids it would be LAMS compliant.

Worked for Coleman's to get shit like the SV400 and CB400SFs lams compliant when they're over the limit. Might require you to be a stealership though :baby:

the are reasonably close, but youd be wasting your time making that argument, arguing that they are only xx percent over the limit makes having the limit at all pointless, and we can't be having that now can we?

as I understand, getting something compliany requires a dealership to provide info directly from the manufacturer as to the bikes actual weight / power output. if that info can be supplied / confirmed, then yup, they can be added if they meet the requirements

[Glowerss]

the are reasonably close, but youd be wasting your time making that argument, arguing that they are only xx percent over the limit makes having the limit at all pointless, and we can't be having that now can we?

as I understand, getting something compliany requires a dealership to provide info directly from the manufacturer as to the bikes actual weight / power output. if that info can be supplied / confirmed, then yup, they can be added if they meet the requirements

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear enough.

The CB400 super four and the SV400 are both over the Power/weight ratio. The SV400 I personally applied to have put on the LAMS list as it was pretty close. The reply I got was:

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

Thank you for your application to have the Suzuki SV400 & 400S added to the approved LAMS list.

From the figures that you have provided, which I have also had verified by Suzuki NZ, these models exceed the power to weight limit for the LAMS requirements and are not considered as LAMS compliant

Power kW / Tare weight + 90 kg x 1000 = kw per tonne
39 257 = 151.7509728 power (kw) (Limit being 150kw/tonne)

Once again thank you for contacting the NZ Transport Agency.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __

Coleman's were selling SV400s as "LAMS approved!' 4-6 months later. I emailed them about it. 2 days later I got this from the NZTA:

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

I have reviewed the information that you supplied for the Suzuki SV400. All of the weights that are listed for the bike are the dry weights, if we take the 16l of fuel into account then we can add another 11kg to the bikes weight and this will make it LAMS compliant (145.5223881 kw/tonne)

The Suzuki SV400 and SV400S will be added to the approved LAMS list in the May update.

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___

So, if the VFR400 is close, tell them the weight figures supplied by Honda are dry weights, add the fuel and it'll be LAMS approved! I'm curious to see if they'd do that for a regular person, or if they'll only "Bend" the rules for dealerships :p

[Ender EnZed]

The VFR400 has 44kW and weighs 165kg dry (http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_vfr400r%2092.htm). Plus the 90kg for a rider that makes 173kW/T.

Even using a wet weight of 193kg (http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/honda_vfr_400_r_1992.php), which is adding a lot more weight for 15L of fuel than in the SV400 case, it still comes to 156kW/T.

It's a lot further away from the limit than the SV400.

[Tazz]

Sorry, I wasn't quite clear enough.

The CB400 super four and the SV400 are both....-snip-



Hmm that is very interesting to know. You'd think they'd draw a line in the sand and decide whether they were going to use dry or wet weights from the beginning. I'm sure there are a few other examples out there that are as close as that and not on the list yet ;)

Got some leathers and panniers and spent about 10 hours on the bike this weekend, fanged down to Chch and then out to Southbridge. Ran out of gas at 222kms (on my way to a fuel station =/). Thought I'd get a few more KM's to a tank than that, but I wasn't really riding for economy to be fair.

Comfort wise the bike is not actually that bad longish distance. Just need to give your feet a stretch every now and again and same with the left hand. Wearing something with a decent collar killed a lot of the wind noise I discovered on the way back up, so I could actually hear the Jethro Tull album I had cranked, which is always a bonus XD

Glad the moon was out last night though as those headlights are useless.

Also has anyone who's had one of these adjusted the gear lever to sit a little higher? Might just be the boots I have at the moment but I have to go forward and down from the peg to get under it, which shifts my weight and can throw me off line when under acceleration and a corner is coming up, or when passing on a corner (common sense disclaimer: not a blind corner obviously....)

[tigertim20]

Hmm that is very interesting to know. You'd think they'd draw a line in the sand and decide whether they were going to use dry or wet weights from the beginning.

youd think they would use common sense with that, I mean you cant ride the fucin thing when its dry can you?

we are dealing with a goverment department though . . .

[Tazz]

youd think they would use common sense with that, I mean you cant ride the fucin thing when its dry can you?

we are dealing with a goverment department though . . .

http://www.nesw.ca/wp-content/upLoads/archive/common-sense-760540.jpg

You could almost make a case for the weight of the rider as well.

[Glowerss]

http://www.nesw.ca/wp-content/upLoads/archive/common-sense-760540.jpg

You could almost make a case for the weight of the rider as well.

They add a flat value of 90kg for the rider. It's mostly just fluids they flip flop around on.

[Tazz]

Ahh, I should really read more about it before commenting =/

Cheers for the clarification. 90kg is actually reasonably generous, although the gear most people wear isn't exactly light...