can'trideforshitonthefirstloopitis.

[Jay GTI]

Just a question, as there are some decent riders on here (not a group I consider myself a member) who race and stuff...

Every time I go for a ride, the first loop is terrible. Really terrible. I often get back to the ute, take off my helmet and wonder why the feck I ever thought dirt biking was a hobby I'd enjoy and want to spend lots of money on.

This happened on Saturday, first loop at Woodhill, intentionally taking the easy sections to warm up, but by half way around, I had lost all strength in my hands, had massive arm pump, I couldn't corner for toffee, felt really awkward, nearly dropped the bike several times, etc.

Second loop after a 10 minute rest and some water back at the ute, the lightswitch was on, everything was gelling, arm pump gone, standing up nicely and getting some rhythm through the corners, felt like I was riding well (within the limits of my ability at least).

So the question is does anyone else have this issue and any suggestions what would help stop it happening? I would like to do some XC/enduro racing but the first lap sucking balls puts me off, because if it's go from a cold start, I certainly won't get 10 minutes back at the ute, so no recovery time and no getting my mojo back (if I don't rest, I don't recover).

Also worth mentioning that in order to get physically prepped for racing, I've really been working on my fitness (running/bootcamp), been seeing a sports nutritionalist, lost 15kg and am in good shape, so it's not a fitness or diet issue.

[Tony.OK]

I'm very average at best and am exactly the same as you describe, bike feels like a foreign object for first loop.
Have been doing a bit of strength training for upper bod to help. I think for me the worst part is not being able to get out nearly as often as I need. Once a month isn't giving the bike fitness required, HB really is crap for riding spots when there aren't any trail rides on.

When I was road racing I had the same thing with arm pump for the first session, then it'd be gone for the rest of the day, getting a good warm up routine can help.

[scott411]

Just a question, as there are some decent riders on here (not a group I consider myself a member) who race and stuff...

Every time I go for a ride, the first loop is terrible. Really terrible. I often get back to the ute, take off my helmet and wonder why the feck I ever thought dirt biking was a hobby I'd enjoy and want to spend lots of money on.

This happened on Saturday, first loop at Woodhill, intentionally taking the easy sections to warm up, but by half way around, I had lost all strength in my hands, had massive arm pump, I couldn't corner for toffee, felt really awkward, nearly dropped the bike several times, etc.

Second loop after a 10 minute rest and some water back at the ute, the lightswitch was on, everything was gelling, arm pump gone, standing up nicely and getting some rhythm through the corners, felt like I was riding well (within the limits of my ability at least).

So the question is does anyone else have this issue and any suggestions what would help stop it happening? I would like to do some XC/enduro racing but the first lap sucking balls puts me off, because if it's go from a cold start, I certainly won't get 10 minutes back at the ute, so no recovery time and no getting my mojo back (if I don't rest, I don't recover).

Also worth mentioning that in order to get physically prepped for racing, I've really been working on my fitness (running/bootcamp), been seeing a sports nutritionalist, lost 15kg and am in good shape, so it's not a fitness or diet issue.

shit your more serious about racing than i have ever been, I count getting prepared as only having 3 beers with dinner the night before, and sometimes i don't bother getting prepared ;)

as for the arm pump, i sometimes get it, and you will see a heap of riders trying to shake it out, with MX you always have a practice so thats easy, but most cross countrys now dont have a look lap, so you may just have to try it, i would,

I know when I went speedway racing in a car, not having a practice and having to go straight into racing was hard for me to get my head around, as practice let me get into the mode well, but i have no really had the issue with cross country racing, the opening part of a cross country race is not as intense as a MX as you have to follow and dont know where the track goes so have to ride a bit more cautious,

[eelracing]

I keep trying to tell myself to relax...easier said than done I know coz while i'm wondering how to get through or over the approaching obstacle the fast guys are already looking at the next one.

[raglanash]

I suffer with arm pump if I don't ride enough that is the main factor for me.
Hitting Ardmore on the Wednesday before a race weekend helps heaps. Easy enough to simulate hectic race conditions there..
Also try smaller grips.

[Jay GTI]

shit your more serious about racing than i have ever been, I count getting prepared as only having 3 beers with dinner the night before, and sometimes i don't bother getting prepared ;)

as for the arm pump, i sometimes get it, and you will see a heap of riders trying to shake it out, with MX you always have a practice so thats easy, but most cross countrys now dont have a look lap, so you may just have to try it, i would,

I know when I went speedway racing in a car, not having a practice and having to go straight into racing was hard for me to get my head around, as practice let me get into the mode well, but i have no really had the issue with cross country racing, the opening part of a cross country race is not as intense as a MX as you have to follow and dont know where the track goes so have to ride a bit more cautious,

Ha yeah I sound a lot more serious than I am, the fitness/nutritionalist stuff is to do with a couple of things. First is recognition I've hit a talent ceiling with my bike skills and if I want to get faster I need to address other things, my weight and fitness being prime candidates for off-bike improvements that will help on the bike. Second is I'm 40 in a few weeks and will be having my first kid in Feb, I need be firing on all cylinders to survive that...

Agreed that on XC racing, I should be able to take it easy and hopefully find my rhythm, but even trying to do this on a trail ride seems to be a real struggle for me if I'm not able to take a rest after warm-up.

I've noticed a few racers get on an exercise bike to get the heart pumping and blood flowing before a race so they've done a lot of the warm up already, anyone tried this?

[Jay GTI]

I suffer with arm pump if I don't ride enough that is the main factor for me.
Hitting Ardmore on the Wednesday before a race weekend helps heaps. Easy enough to simulate hectic race conditions there..
Also try smaller grips.

Ride fitness is definitely a factor, I can do all the bootcamp I want, but without bike time it's not enough. Tried smaller grips, as well as those squeezy grip rings the rock climbers use to develope forearm strength, that helps but it's more the physiological impact of the first ride/loop. My body copes well when it's had it's warm up and rest, but I need the rest part.

[haydes55]

I've done a trail ride but my experience off road is from speedway. Going easy is a lot harder than going flat out. When you go slow you fight the bike more, less relaxed and burn up all your energy. When you just go faster, the bike is easier to throw around, you're more relaxed knowing how the bike handles and conserve energy.

Balls out and pin it.

[Jay GTI]

When I was road racing I had the same thing with arm pump for the first session, then it'd be gone for the rest of the day, getting a good warm up routine can help.

Ah missed that bit, did you have a warm-up routine that worked? It definitely seems I'm not alone, so there must be a way to cope... and yeah I think the key is the warm-up...

[Jay GTI]

I've done a trail ride but my experience off road is from speedway. Going easy is a lot harder than going flat out. When you go slow you fight the bike more, less relaxed and burn up all your energy. When you just go faster, the bike is easier to throw around, you're more relaxed knowing how the bike handles and conserve energy.

Balls out and pin it.


This is true, but on the first loop I may as well be sitting on the bike facing backwards, I feel so awkward. Makes going fast pretty difficult.

[raglanash]

Definitely try and warm up a bit, get the blood flowing around and get that negative thought out of your head that you will be slow and pump up. Go out with an attitude that you will charge, have fun and ride really well, get your head in the right place. I suck when I go out with a shit attitude, there is a big mental aspect to this sport as well as the physical.

[Crisis management]

Disclaimer: definately not an expert.....

Raglanash is right, if you have your physical fitness sorted it's only your head holding you back, going out there pumped on adrenaline and thinking of all the possible things that can go wrong (conciously or sub conciously) will make you ride like crap, lots of tension stops your muscles working.
Being fit and well hydrated is a large chunk of riding skill and the rest is thinking your way into it, I tend to go out to Woodhill with a list of things to achieve so I'm thinking through how to improve my cornering, braking and clutch control on the way out there, once I'm there my focus is already on looking for improvements so it's easy to get in the rhythym and easier to just ride without worrying about everything. I do think through my riding skills before I get on the bike, I will practice clutching up the front at home wandering around the house (may look stupid but there's no trees to hit!).

My advice would be to do specific exercises on the bike to hone your skills rather than riding a loop as fast as you can, once you know you have the individual skills right you won't get wound up trying to do everything at once, get the muscle memories right and you can focus on the track.

[Tony.OK]

Ah missed that bit, did you have a warm-up routine that worked? It definitely seems I'm not alone, so there must be a way to cope... and yeah I think the key is the warm-up...

On the way to a ride I would grip the steering wheel as hard as I could till my forearms started to pump a bit, then relax and repeat a few times, it seemed to help some, maybe it was just releasing a bit of lactic acid?
One thing I do remember and tried last time out in the bush was to have a packet of chips to eat first, nice n salty ones, that noticably helped to stop that horrible forearm cramp that stops me being able to pull the brake lever :wacko:

[Akzle]

blaze a cone first.

[takitimu]

Nasty illness, right up wih gasgasitis.

Big one for me is training, getting taught to stand on the sole of your foot vs the arch means I grip more with my knees relaxing my arms, elbows wide so you twist the throttle like a key makes it alot easier ( stronger arm positioning ), keep your elbows up gives you control, grease the clutch/brake perches, my throttle tube has a bearing, thin hand grips, deft family gloves, it's all helped with arm pump.

I'd recommend birchy or Brody training, really helped me anyway.

I still get it bad though, the arm pump alot less, but first hour I don't gel with my bike so good ( arguable I ever do, but feels better after an hour ).

[ellipsis]

...never jumped a bike over things racing but it sounds similar to the first few laps at the start of a speedway meeting for me, or did,( haven't been on a speedway track for a long time...hips, knees, arms all asking the same question and causing doubt in the mind about your desire to be there...as soon as the adrenaline kicked in, when the heat was on, it all just slipped back into place, (like you were born to be smashed up on a dirt track)...

[Ktmboy]

blaze a cone first.

Ha ha. That actually is what a few guys I know do. Even before they do a 3 hour cross country. How the hell they ride so good is beyond me.

The arm pump thing could be the handle bar set up. Son used to get it really bad as we used to have the bars rolled forward of the fork centreline.

Due to watching all the young pros now riding with the bars rolled back and making the adjustment his arm pump has decreased quite a bit.
I think just chilling out on the first lap is a great skill to take on. Get rid of the red mist.

[Jay GTI]

Disclaimer: definately not an expert.....

Raglanash is right, if you have your physical fitness sorted it's only your head holding you back, going out there pumped on adrenaline and thinking of all the possible things that can go wrong (conciously or sub conciously) will make you ride like crap, lots of tension stops your muscles working.
Being fit and well hydrated is a large chunk of riding skill and the rest is thinking your way into it, I tend to go out to Woodhill with a list of things to achieve so I'm thinking through how to improve my cornering, braking and clutch control on the way out there, once I'm there my focus is already on looking for improvements so it's easy to get in the rhythym and easier to just ride without worrying about everything. I do think through my riding skills before I get on the bike, I will practice clutching up the front at home wandering around the house (may look stupid but there's no trees to hit!).

My advice would be to do specific exercises on the bike to hone your skills rather than riding a loop as fast as you can, once you know you have the individual skills right you won't get wound up trying to do everything at once, get the muscle memories right and you can focus on the track.

Yeah there may be something in the mental aspect, but it's really just a case of letting my body go through what I guess I could describe as a heat cycle. Honing skills and building muscle memory would certainly help, really do wish I had a paddock or similar at my regular disposal so I could work on the core skills.


On the way to a ride I would grip the steering wheel as hard as I could till my forearms started to pump a bit, then relax and repeat a few times, it seemed to help some, maybe it was just releasing a bit of lactic acid?
One thing I do remember and tried last time out in the bush was to have a packet of chips to eat first, nice n salty ones, that noticably helped to stop that horrible forearm cramp that stops me being able to pull the brake lever :wacko:

Mmmmm chips.... I have a few things I have to eat the morning of a ride, chips unsurprisingly isn't on the list, but I do take on proper isotonic (i.e. not powerage) fluids and keep drinking them.


Nasty illness, right up wih gasgasitis.

Big one for me is training, getting taught to stand on the sole of your foot vs the arch means I grip more with my knees relaxing my arms, elbows wide so you twist the throttle like a key makes it alot easier ( stronger arm positioning ), keep your elbows up gives you control, grease the clutch/brake perches, my throttle tube has a bearing, thin hand grips, deft family gloves, it's all helped with arm pump.

I'd recommend birchy or Brody training, really helped me anyway.

I still get it bad though, the arm pump alot less, but first hour I don't gel with my bike so good ( arguable I ever do, but feels better after an hour ).

I used to race mountain bikes, I always ride on the balls of my feet as I used to have no choice (it's where my shoe/pedal clips were) and it just feels odd riding with the pegs in the arch. Elbows up and all that stuff in practice too.


Ha ha. That actually is what a few guys I know do. Even before they do a 3 hour cross country. How the hell they ride so good is beyond me.

The arm pump thing could be the handle bar set up. Son used to get it really bad as we used to have the bars rolled forward of the fork centreline.

Due to watching all the young pros now riding with the bars rolled back and making the adjustment his arm pump has decreased quite a bit.
I think just chilling out on the first lap is a great skill to take on. Get rid of the red mist.

Sod blazing a cone, I haven't smoked up for about 20 years, but I had the nickname captain co-ordinated from when I did and it was a serious piss-take, so um no....

Rolling back the bars is an interesting one to try, been reading about that set-up (it's how you tell how old the owner of a bike is apparently ha ha).

Really not a red mist issue though, just a complete unco until I get the first ride done then have a rest.

[jimmy 2006]

My 2c.

If you haven't given xc races a go before it sounds like it is time to try.
I don't know if they still run them but the Top trail rider series or even the woodhill 2 man races are good casual rides.

go along with the mindset that you will drop to the back of your start group and just try ride the track and complete the race. not come first.

I found the hardest part riding for an extended period of time at a reasonable pace rather than than all out speed. (i'm not at all fast though) When we trail ride we hardly ever ride for over 25min without stopping for someone, having a yarn or choosing where we are going. So the endurance of riding for a couple of full laps gets you pretty fast.

[nzspokes]

I know what you mean. My first few trails are rubbish. I go back to the car wondering what im doing there but next time out im a different rider.

For arm pump these may work for you, http://www.stegzmoto.com.au/STEG-PEGZ.html

Ive been thinking of making a getto version with door stops.

[Katman]

I go back to the car wondering what im doing there but next time out im a different rider.



Maybe you've just gone to sleep and you're dreaming.

[Jay GTI]

My 2c.

If you haven't given xc races a go before it sounds like it is time to try.
I don't know if they still run them but the Top trail rider series or even the woodhill 2 man races are good casual rides.

go along with the mindset that you will drop to the back of your start group and just try ride the track and complete the race. not come first.

I found the hardest part riding for an extended period of time at a reasonable pace rather than than all out speed. (i'm not at all fast though) When we trail ride we hardly ever ride for over 25min without stopping for someone, having a yarn or choosing where we are going. So the endurance of riding for a couple of full laps gets you pretty fast.

Not fast, never going to be fast, I know my limits :) However one thing I'm good at, once I've got the mojo, is riding forever. I'll happily ride for well over an hour without a stop and have done plenty of times when I go to trail rides without any ride buddies. Should be enough to keep me going between fuel stops or whatever.


I know what you mean. My first few trails are rubbish. I go back to the car wondering what im doing there but next time out im a different rider.

For arm pump these may work for you, http://www.stegzmoto.com.au/STEG-PEGZ.html

Ive been thinking of making a getto version with door stops.

Not sure about those stegz, they seem popular with desert racers, who basically never sit down, but might not work so well in XC racing.

[BoristheBiter]

I used to get this and sometimes i still do. I think it is just depends what mood I'm in.
As for arm pump main thing I found that gave me was arm position.
Once I was shown to keep the elbows up, making me grip the bars on an angle and not straight, the arm pump disappeared.

Every time i get it now is because of arm position.

As for racing I too would suggest the Woodhill 2 man (finished for this year).
It is a nice easy way to see if racing is for you.
I did it for two years and found the first year to be great but the second i just didn't enjoy it so just stick to trail rides as there are plenty of them through the year.

[Jay GTI]

As for racing I too would suggest the Woodhill 2 man (finished for this year).
It is a nice easy way to see if racing is for you.
I did it for two years and found the first year to be great but the second i just didn't enjoy it so just stick to trail rides as there are plenty of them through the year.

Yeah had planned to do the Woodhill 2 Man series this year, but the guy I was going to partner up with has given up riding and is racing karts now and I was reluctant to go solo. Now I've just decided to bite the bullet and give it a go. Definitely not trying to be competitive though, just want to be part of an event, finishing a race is enough for me.

[jimmy 2006]

watch the first 40 seconds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZjT0kfVP-w
something you hope you never do at the start line.

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah had planned to do the Woodhill 2 Man series this year, but the guy I was going to partner up with has given up riding and is racing karts now and I was reluctant to go solo. Now I've just decided to bite the bullet and give it a go. Definitely not trying to be competitive though, just want to be part of an event, finishing a race is enough for me.

I have no mates :cry: so did the solo. Knew i was never even going to get close but did it anyway.
I have way more fun riding trails, and it's cheaper.

[scott411]

Yeah had planned to do the Woodhill 2 Man series this year, but the guy I was going to partner up with has given up riding and is racing karts now and I was reluctant to go solo. Now I've just decided to bite the bullet and give it a go. Definitely not trying to be competitive though, just want to be part of an event, finishing a race is enough for me.

the Bel-Ray cross country's start soon and are a good ride, MNZ tho so you have to by a day licence,

Also the GNCC's start this weekend, they are good as well, and with out a mass start my be a bit better way to start,

[Jay GTI]

the Bel-Ray cross country's start soon and are a good ride, MNZ tho so you have to by a day licence,

Also the GNCC's start this weekend, they are good as well, and with out a mass start my be a bit better way to start,

The Bel-Ray XCs look good, GNCCs are all a bit of a distance away (but doable). A few options certainly, plus there's the Waitemata XC series although a 3 hour iron man may be pushing it with my experience :)

[jimmy 2006]

that Bel ray just out of huntly is such a hard ride in the dry. I've never been so beaten up.

Give the riverhead hundred a go in clubman. 50km track.

[nzspokes]

Not sure about those stegz, they seem popular with desert racers, who basically never sit down, but might not work so well in XC racing.

Im going to give it a try. Reckon it may be of use.

But im aiming it to be a sub $10 mod.

[motor_mayhem]

as generally a below to average mxer I consider it an obligation to ride the first lap pretty crap (track or trail) otherwise you could end up like those people in that mountain bike lemmings video that circulated recently. The only time I think I've been reasonably on it from the get-go was when I wanted to be faster than someone I was riding with.

[Jay GTI]

that Bel ray just out of huntly is such a hard ride in the dry. I've never been so beaten up.

Give the riverhead hundred a go in clubman. 50km track.

Looked at that, but even with the clubman class there's a couple of things that put me off. First is the use of the word "extreme" in the title of the race, second is the fact there's the question "are you hard enough" on the bottom of the flyer...:).

Althought I really enjoyed the last trail ride I did at Riverhead.

[scott411]

Looked at that, but even with the clubman class there's a couple of things that put me off. First is the use of the word "extreme" in the title of the race, second is the fact there's the question "are you hard enough" on the bottom of the flyer...:).

Althought I really enjoyed the last trail ride I did at Riverhead.

most of the Bel_rays are slightly harder versions of mr motorcycles trail rides, done faster and more times, sometimes the get a bit rough, but thier are much harder races,

[gwynfryn]

I rode the Waitamata 2 man (in a team) series last year as my first foray into racing. I would recommend it as a first race, nothing to technical, though as always Riverhead was slippery.
My lasting impression was of hearing a bike behind me then a flash along side as Sean Clarke passed through the trees off the main track.
Oh yeah the arm pump spread through my body and even my feet were cramping at the end.

[Jay GTI]

most of the Bel_rays are slightly harder versions of mr motorcycles trail rides, done faster and more times, sometimes the get a bit rough, but thier are much harder races,

Yeah I've now marked myself down to do the first one, cheers for the pointer.


I rode the Waitamata 2 man (in a team) series last year as my first foray into racing. I would recommend it as a first race, nothing to technical, though as always Riverhead was slippery.
My lasting impression was of hearing a bike behind me then a flash along side as Sean Clarke passed through the trees off the main track.
Oh yeah the arm pump spread through my body and even my feet were cramping at the end.

The first one is in Woodhill Forest, which isn't my favourite place to ride, but will be a good starter as it's local and I do know the terrain. 2nd one is Riverhead though. Funny, I don't seem to have an issue with the slippery conditions at Riverehead, even had people asking me for riding advice last time I was there, for some unknown reason...

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah I've now marked myself down to do the first one, cheers for the pointer.



The first one is in Woodhill Forest, which isn't my favourite place to ride, but will be a good starter as it's local and I do know the terrain. 2nd one is Riverhead though. Funny, I don't seem to have an issue with the slippery conditions at Riverehead, even had people asking me for riding advice last time I was there, for some unknown reason...

We all have our favorite terrain.
I personally love Woodhill also love Maramrua but for some reason Riverhead has me riding like a numpty.
I think it was the first place a rode as a newbie and still have flashbacks of sitting in a bog all day.

WMCC do a fantastic track at Woodhill, think of the blues at the sandpit and that is what to expect.

[raglanash]

Raglan ROCX on Jan 18th is a good one too. 4 hour. 20k ish lap.

[Jay GTI]

WMCC do a fantastic track at Woodhill, think of the blues at the sandpit and that is what to expect.

Is it the same sort of area/terrain of the WMCC Family Day trail rides they do out there? I stopped going to those ages ago, as there was far too much weaving in and out of cutty grass and tussock in 1st gear, not my idea of an enjoyable ride.


Raglan ROCX on Jan 18th is a good one too. 4 hour. 20k ish lap.

Cool cheers, will add it to the list for next year.

[BoristheBiter]

Is it the same sort of area/terrain of the WMCC Family Day trail rides they do out there? I stopped going to those ages ago, as there was far too much weaving in and out of cutty grass and tussock in 1st gear, not my idea of an enjoyable ride.


um yes, if you don't like that then maybe not a good one to start with and the Woodhill 2 man is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMGHyobUaFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LXiLMWOfTk

[nzspokes]

um yes, if you don't like that then maybe not a good one to start with and the Woodhill 2 man is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMGHyobUaFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LXiLMWOfTk

I like the family days but not the sandpit.

[Lawrence]

I think this is very common among all sports and physical activities. As well as dirt biking I do a lot of windsurfing (high wind stuff) The first run out into the harbor when its blowing 20 knots is always stetchy for me. Basically just like warming up your bike you need to warm up your body, and get it used to full on sudden exercise. I do one quick run out come back to the car, re-fuel the body, let the nerves settle, let the muscles wake up then go back out. The same can be applied to any sport. Do a quick short easy loop, come back to the pits for a 5-10min rest, get a drink, eat small energy snack then hit it again. Otherwise you are asking a lot from your body to go from relaxed state to 100% physical work and 100% concentration all at the same time. No matter how fit you are you should always ease into it.

[BoristheBiter]

I like the family days but not the sandpit.

You just need to get off the main trails and hit the blues.
Nice flowing trails, not much deep sand, more technical than fast.

Endless ride at south head next weekend too.

[nzspokes]

You just need to get of the main trails and hit the blues.
Nice flowing trails, not much deep sand, more technical than fast.

Endless ride at south head next weekend too.

Im doing the fun day on sunday but i have my kids the following weekend. Over labour weekend i might hit the Moto X park if they have the enduro loop open.

[Jay GTI]

um yes, if you don't like that then maybe not a good one to start with and the Woodhill 2 man is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMGHyobUaFI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LXiLMWOfTk

It's not enough to put me off though, I need to start somewhere and this is as good as any. Those vids a great help though, cheers for those.


I think this is very common among all sports and physical activities. As well as dirt biking I do a lot of windsurfing (high wind stuff) The first run out into the harbor when its blowing 20 knots is always stetchy for me. Basically just like warming up your bike you need to warm up your body, and get it used to full on sudden exercise. I do one quick run out come back to the car, re-fuel the body, let the nerves settle, let the muscles wake up then go back out. The same can be applied to any sport. Do a quick short easy loop, come back to the pits for a 5-10min rest, get a drink, eat small energy snack then hit it again. Otherwise you are asking a lot from your body to go from relaxed state to 100% physical work and 100% concentration all at the same time. No matter how fit you are you should always ease into it.

Overwhelmingly the advice I'm getting, outside of this discussion as well as on here, is it is a natural warm-up cycle and I need to develop myself both mentally and physically to cope. Physically I'm doing the right things, but mentally I have to work on keeping things at a warm-up level and not push it when I'm feeling like I'm riding like a fool. First loop I feel awkward, so I ride awkwardly. I ride awkwardly, which makes me uncomfortable, so I can't relax. Because I'm not relaxed, I'm riding all tensed up, which makes it worse and I go around and around until my cold muscles can't cope any longer and it's back to the ute time. The mental aspect is going to take some working on...

[BoristheBiter]

It's not enough to put me off though, I need to start somewhere and this is as good as any. Those vids a great help though, cheers for those.



Overwhelmingly the advice I'm getting, outside of this discussion as well as on here, is it is a natural warm-up cycle and I need to develop myself both mentally and physically to cope. Physically I'm doing the right things, but mentally I have to work on keeping things at a warm-up level and not push it when I'm feeling like I'm riding like a fool. First loop I feel awkward, so I ride awkwardly. I ride awkwardly, which makes me uncomfortable, so I can't relax. Because I'm not relaxed, I'm riding all tensed up, which makes it worse and I go around and around until my cold muscles can't cope any longer and it's back to the ute time. The mental aspect is going to take some working on...

Ask anyone that competes and they will all have a different routine for starting the day.

Mine starts the night before and i just want quiet on the morning.
The big thing i found was to do slow speed warm ups in the car park. Figure 8's at full lock, both puts your body and mind in the right gear and warms you up as well.

But you will find what works.

[Jay GTI]

The big thing i found was to do slow speed warm ups in the car park. Figure 8's at full lock, both puts your body and mind in the right gear and warms you up as well.



Ah perfect that is something I will definitely do then. Cheers!!

[scott411]

Ask anyone that competes and they will all have a different routine for starting the day.

Mine starts the night before and i just want quiet on the morning.
The big thing i found was to do slow speed warm ups in the car park. Figure 8's at full lock, both puts your body and mind in the right gear and warms you up as well.

But you will find what works.

DO NOT ride around the car park unless you want to piss off the organisers

[BoristheBiter]

DO NOT ride around the car park unless you want to piss off the organisers

????
Can't say I've pissed anyone off while riding in a car park.

[scott411]

????
Can't say I've pissed anyone off while riding in a car park.

i speak as an event organiser, plenty of people have pissed me off riding in the car park,

they mark km's of trail for you, use that,

[scott411]

as for warming up my arms, i use the front suspension and push up and down on them, and slap my fore arms like a junkie looking for a vein, also shake them a bit,

[Jay GTI]

Ok, so no figure 8's in the car park... but as it's primarily my arms that get me into trouble, that is where I need the most help. So junkie slaps it is... :)

[BoristheBiter]

i speak as an event organiser, plenty of people have pissed me off riding in the car park,

they mark km's of trail for you, use that,

I think you have mistaken what I mean.
Low speed figure 8's, no speed just balance, just enough to go around in a circle without falling off or stalling.

[scott411]

I think you have mistaken what I mean.
Low speed figure 8's, no speed just balance, just enough to go around in a circle without falling off or stalling.

i know what you ment, but you imagine 300 poeple doing that, thats why i would against it,

I have seen it here a few times, (and enforced it at supercrosses), but overseas it is not uncommon for you to have to push your bike to the start line, with no riding the pits at all, (infact i think its the enduro rule here as well)

[BoristheBiter]

i know what you ment, but you imagine 300 poeple doing that, thats why i would against it,

I have seen it here a few times, (and enforced it at supercrosses), but overseas it is not uncommon for you to have to push your bike to the start line, with no riding the pits at all, (infact i think its the enduro rule here as well)

I see what you mean but that's not how everyone warms up (only know one other rider that's does it) and with most of the car parks are actually roads I wouldn't think it was that much of a deal.

This is another reason I don't race, just sucks the fun out of riding.

[nzspokes]

This is another reason I don't race, just sucks the fun out of riding.

Agreed.

And I would hold everybody up. Have been tempted to do a maize race but thought I would be to slow.

[Jay GTI]

And I would hold everybody up. Have been tempted to do a maize race but thought I would be to slow.

It's a fair concern, one I've had as well because if there's a loop, there will be fast guys coming up behind me regularly. But I figure I have as much right to be there as anyone else and as long as I'm not block riding or intentionally getting in the way of the fast guys, they can get past me easily enough (they certainly do on some of the trail rides I've been on).

I've watched a maize race, they seem to attract a few novice racers, so I wouldn't worry in the slightest about being slow.

[Ocean1]

Yeah there may be something in the mental aspect, but it's really just a case of letting my body go through what I guess I could describe as a heat cycle.

I don't think your "issue" is all that uncommon. I used to spend the first little while on the bike deliberately reinforcing correct riding habits, just as you say. It's a good thing to do, and eventually it became a habit in it's own right. You can't ride "properly" while you're doing that though, it's your subconscious that manages riding your bike, and once you've done instructing it on how to do it's job, (practice) you need to fuck off and stop leaning over it's shoulder reminding it.

Check out "The upper half of the Motorcycle" by Bernt Spiegel. The ultimate authority.

[Jay GTI]

I don't think your "issue" is all that uncommon. I used to spend the first little while on the bike deliberately reinforcing correct riding habits, just as you say. It's a good thing to do, and eventually it became a habit in it's own right. You can't ride "properly" while you're doing that though, it's your subconscious that manages riding your bike, and once you've done instructing it on how to do it's job, (practice) you need to fuck off and stop leaning over it's shoulder reminding it.

Check out "The upper half of the Motorcycle" by Bernt Spiegel. The ultimate authority.

Yeah this is what I've been getting back, talking to other people. There is nothing unusual about my "issue" and in fact it isn't even an issue, just how the body copes with what I'm trying to put it through. Hence a bit later on I posted about the mental aspects of the warm-up, because that is where I am failing. I know my technique leaves a fair bit to be desired, so there are improvements to be made, but you're right, I need to spend time focusing on reinforcing the good riding I do. So, next time I'm out, I plan to do the first loop slower than usual, but really work on moving around on the bike properly, trying to get myself comfortable, before trying to turn the wick up.

Cheers all for the advice though, it has been very useful. Really looking forward to the first race now :)

[nzmikey]

Pay attention to this thread for a bit ...

I have managed to score an 08 TTR230 till I get my road licence back in JAN, so I hooked up with some mates & went out on sunday to the ride that was up in south head, we did the short loop first ( 15km loop ) what no 1 told me about riding in sand is that the Pin it or Bin it saying was true ... so needless to say I was pucked when I got back to the carpark.

My arms were sore my legs were ok my hands could hardly roll up a smoke my brain was wondering what the fuck just happened .

So after a 15min break we topped up the gas on the bikes & hit the 35km loop ... was a bit better as there was less sand ... & by less I mean more trees & pine needles & stumps & dirt & & & & ... yeah you get the idea .

when we arrived back at the carpark 5 bins later I was hot, sore, tired, thirsty, broken ..... after talking to a couple of guys out there to see where i was going wrong in the corners it turns out it was body position & lack of power ... with that changed we tanked up & went out for another crack at it .... by the time i got 1/4 of the way in my legs & fingers were giving out ( cramp ) & when the other 2 stopped to wait for me in the clearing / major roads ... I got off & had a walk around & it did not help ... but by the 1/2 way point I was fine .. the muscles had figured out a rhythm I was in the zone & got rid of the road bike riding mentality & my mind was relaxed ...

SO on the 3rd of November myself & a few others are heading north for a farm ride 50km out of Whangaraei.

The plan of attack it to stretch before hand, drink lots throughout the day, relax & have fun & try not to think about what could go wrong . the other advantage is that this is dirt not sand ( going to hurt if one falls .... not that I will ) :apumpin:

[BoristheBiter]

Pay attention to this thread for a bit ...

I have managed to score an 08 TTR230 till I get my road licence back in JAN, so I hooked up with some mates & went out on sunday to the ride that was up in south head, we did the short loop first ( 15km loop ) what no 1 told me about riding in sand is that the Pin it or Bin it saying was true ... so needless to say I was pucked when I got back to the carpark.

My arms were sore my legs were ok my hands could hardly roll up a smoke my brain was wondering what the fuck just happened .

So after a 15min break we topped up the gas on the bikes & hit the 35km loop ... was a bit better as there was less sand ... & by less I mean more trees & pine needles & stumps & dirt & & & & ... yeah you get the idea .

when we arrived back at the carpark 5 bins later I was hot, sore, tired, thirsty, broken ..... after talking to a couple of guys out there to see where i was going wrong in the corners it turns out it was body position & lack of power ... with that changed we tanked up & went out for another crack at it .... by the time i got 1/4 of the way in my legs & fingers were giving out ( cramp ) & when the other 2 stopped to wait for me in the clearing / major roads ... I got off & had a walk around & it did not help ... but by the 1/2 way point I was fine .. the muscles had figured out a rhythm I was in the zone & got rid of the road bike riding mentality & my mind was relaxed ...

SO on the 3rd of November myself & a few others are heading north for a farm ride 50km out of Whangaraei.

The plan of attack it to stretch before hand, drink lots throughout the day, relax & have fun & try not to think about what could go wrong . the other advantage is that this is dirt not sand ( going to hurt if one falls .... not that I will ) :apumpin:

Those tracks didn't help, not beginner friendly that's for sure. after that first red down/up hill i had to wait 5 min to let my arms recover, not good to start on that.
The red sections were easier to ride than the rest as the sand wasn't so fluffy and deep.
Would like to know where the rest of the track was as our bike (and gps) showed 29 with all the reds and only 25 on the main trail.
And closing the 17k track at 2 was a bit slack.

Glad you had fun out there as that is a big part of it. funny how many roadies come to/back to dirt waiting for their licence to return.

[nzspokes]

Dirt is a shit load easier. I enjoy the farm rides. Best thing ive learnt so far is to look up. And not to pin it near trees, contrary to popular belief they do hurt when you hit them tapped in third.

Least it sounds like you have a 4t, my 2t is nothing, nothing, fuck everything.

Just relax an enjoy, its much more skill related than road. Try out MotoX park, im heading there in the weekend if I can for some dirt based fun. May even try the motocross track as I would normally stick to the enduro stuff.

[nzmikey]

Those tracks didn't help, not beginner friendly that's for sure. after that first red down/up hill i had to wait 5 min to let my arms recover, not good to start on that.
The red sections were easier to ride than the rest as the sand wasn't so fluffy and deep.
Would like to know where the rest of the track was as our bike (and gps) showed 29 with all the reds and only 25 on the main trail.
And closing the 17k track at 2 was a bit slack.

Glad you had fun out there as that is a big part of it. funny how many roadies come to/back to dirt waiting for their licence to return.

hah yeah that short track within 600m there was a marshal standing there pointing me up the hill ... I was going WTF ahh ok ... he ran to help push as I pinned it ... never looked back ...

as for the rest of the big loop I am not sure ... I caught a pruned branch near the end of the big loop with my left arm at pace, i never went down managed to keep it upright until i got to the clearing with a big flat patch of grass & a nice shady tree where I stopped to yell & scream & figure out if I could ride out ... had a couple of guys check on me to make sure I was ok & they said that there was about 4km to go ... I grunted & carried on ... it was all long easy straights & a couple of long easy uphill access roads from what I could tell & then popped out at the top .... surely that was not 4km ...

In saying that where the Defense force lookout tower was you could either take the left track & do the Pro section or go right & do the pussy section ... since I took the easy way I have no idea how far the other way went ...

& yeah I need to find way to entertain myself away from the family or I go nuts ( more than normal )
but yes was a hell fun day

[BoristheBiter]

hah yeah that short track within 600m there was a marshal standing there pointing me up the hill ... I was going WTF ahh ok ... he ran to help push as I pinned it ... never looked back ...

as for the rest of the big loop I am not sure ... I caught a pruned branch near the end of the big loop with my left arm at pace, i never went down managed to keep it upright until i got to the clearing with a big flat patch of grass & a nice shady tree where I stopped to yell & scream & figure out if I could ride out ... had a couple of guys check on me to make sure I was ok & they said that there was about 4km to go ... I grunted & carried on ... it was all long easy straights & a couple of long easy uphill access roads from what I could tell & then popped out at the top .... surely that was not 4km ...

In saying that where the Defense force lookout tower was you could either take the left track & do the Pro section or go right & do the pussy section ... since I took the easy way I have no idea how far the other way went ...

& yeah I need to find way to entertain myself away from the family or I go nuts ( more than normal )
but yes was a hell fun day

If that pruned tree was on your left hand side as you went over a little jump onto a open area....... I hit that too. couldn't see the branch in the sun and just rode straight into it. my arm now has a good lump. Fuck i love dirt.

No i did all the tracks just seemed very short. the fast guys must have done a lot of loops.

[nzmikey]

If that pruned tree was on your left hand side as you went over a little jump onto a open area....... I hit that too. couldn't see the branch in the sun and just rode straight into it. my arm now has a good lump. Fuck i love dirt.

No i did all the tracks just seemed very short. the fast guys must have done a lot of loops.

:lol: thats the one dude ... yeah opened up my arm on the inside missing a chunk of skin & large bruise now, this was taken the morning after lol
http://i.imgur.com/5hIfSmql.jpg

& yeah the tree is fine ... going to take a bloody saw to it next time

[BoristheBiter]

:lol: thats the one dude ... yeah opened up my arm on the inside missing a chunk of skin & large bruise now, this was taken the morning after lol

& yeah the tree is fine ... going to take a bloody saw to it next time

:lol:
I didn't hit it the first two laps..... must have been the sun....... i'll blame the sun:scratch:

[gwynfryn]

Dirt is a shit load easier. I enjoy the farm rides. Best thing ive learnt so far is to look up. And not to pin it near trees, contrary to popular belief they do hurt when you hit them tapped in third.

Least it sounds like you have a 4t, my 2t is nothing, nothing, fuck everything.

Just relax an enjoy, its much more skill related than road. Try out MotoX park, im heading there in the weekend if I can for some dirt based fun. May even try the motocross track as I would normally stick to the enduro stuff.

Are you sure your KIPS is working properly? It should lug at low rpm better than a 4t!

[gwynfryn]

I didn't think much of that ride. The long loop was pretty ho-hum even with the red arrows and as mentioned seemed way to short. They had a sign saying to make sure you had a full tank, why?. in fact as i approached the car park I thought thats cool it must be a figure 8 !
As for the short loop -bloody horrible soft boring sand , felt sorry for newbies thinking it would be easier than the long loop.
Makes me realise how good the WMCC rides are.

[nzmikey]

I didn't think much of that ride. The long loop was pretty ho-hum even with the red arrows and as mentioned seemed way to short. They had a sign saying to make sure you had a full tank, why?. in fact as i approached the car park I thought thats cool it must be a figure 8 !
As for the short loop -bloody horrible soft boring sand , felt sorry for newbies thinking it would be easier than the long loop.
Makes me realise how good the WMCC rides are.

Yup I fell for that mistake ... "hey lets do the short loop ... has been awhile since I have ridden ... will be sweeet '

oh how wrong

[nzspokes]

Are you sure your KIPS is working properly? It should lug at low rpm better than a 4t!

Lol, it is way better these days. It was really bad but smaller jets and lower needle has improved it heaps.

Agree the WMCC days are great. I really enjoyed the last one.

But looking forward to some dirt this weekend.

[Jay GTI]

Try out MotoX park, im heading there in the weekend if I can for some dirt based fun. May even try the motocross track as I would normally stick to the enduro stuff.

Ah bugger, I can't make it this weekend (was going to head down as well), could have been a chance to wander over and say hi. Let me know how you get on with the enduro loop, should be nice after the maintenance, if it's anything like the MX track.

Going down next Sat though, missus is having her baby shower and I'm getting the feck out of the house. Plus I need some ride time, finally sorted a race, which will be the Bel Ray in Huntly on the 1st of Dec. Wanted to try something earlier, but my calendar just wouldn't work around the options. Bonus is I've convinced 2 ride buddies to pop their race cherries as well and even better, I'm faster than both of them, so I won't be last.

[nzspokes]

Ah bugger, I can't make it this weekend (was going to head down as well), could have been a chance to wander over and say hi. Let me know how you get on with the enduro loop, should be nice after the maintenance, if it's anything like the MX track.

Going down next Sat though, missus is having her baby shower and I'm getting the feck out of the house. Plus I need some ride time, finally sorted a race, which will be the Bel Ray in Huntly on the 1st of Dec. Wanted to try something earlier, but my calendar just wouldn't work around the options. Bonus is I've convinced 2 ride buddies to pop their race cherries as well and even better, I'm faster than both of them, so I won't be last.

Have you ridden the Enduro track there before? I cant get any info on it.

I may hop on the MX track for a bit and see what its like. I will warn Westpac to warm the helicopter up.

[BoristheBiter]

Have you ridden the Enduro track there before? I cant get any info on it.

I may hop on the MX track for a bit and see what its like. I will warn Westpac to warm the helicopter up.

We're probably heading to the sandpit on Monday and do some of the new blues and a few of the hill climbs out the back.

[Jay GTI]

Have you ridden the Enduro track there before? I cant get any info on it.

I may hop on the MX track for a bit and see what its like. I will warn Westpac to warm the helicopter up.

The enduro loop is awesome, one of my favourite places to ride. Last time I was there they'd groomed it nicely, but it's one of those loops that has a bit of everything and is challenging without being too hard.

The MX track looks bloody sweet too, it was a bit tricky in a couple of places but the new layout looks much more friendly.

[oldskool]

Pay attention to this thread for a bit ...

... by the time i got 1/4 of the way in my legs & fingers were giving out ( cramp ) & when the other 2 stopped to wait for me in the clearing / major roads ...

That wasn't you throwing your bike down 8:25min into this vid was it?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tOGc5EGjT2Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/tOGc5EGjT2Q?t=8m5s

[nzmikey]

That wasn't you throwing your bike down 8:25min into this vid was it?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/tOGc5EGjT2Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://youtu.be/tOGc5EGjT2Q?t=8m5s

Nope that was not me ... I was the nutter riding in Road Bootss, jeans, Singlet & a back & chest protector on a Blue TTR 230 ....

That tree on the left http://i.imgur.com/13JCvzB.png at 11:32 was the one that i belted with my arm tho ... I stopped in that clearing just after

[raglanash]

Have you ridden the Enduro track there before? I cant get any info on it.

I may hop on the MX track for a bit and see what its like. I will warn Westpac to warm the helicopter up.

Just youtube kimmys farm, there's heaps of footy of the enduro and MX track. Mx track is pretty much the same layout just groomed waaaaaaay better. I imagine the enduro loop would have had the treatment. Nice people there too.

[nzspokes]

Just youtube kimmys farm, there's heaps of footy of the enduro and MX track. Mx track is pretty much the same layout just groomed waaaaaaay better. I imagine the enduro loop would have had the treatment. Nice people there too.

Have been doing that, looks like fun. I would really like to try the MX track but dont want to get in the way of better riders who are there to have a ride to. Will sneak on if its empty.

[Jay GTI]

Have been doing that, looks like fun. I would really like to try the MX track but dont want to get in the way of better riders who are there to have a ride to. Will sneak on if its empty.

Nah you'll be sweet, it's very rarely even close to busy and most guys who ride it are pretty average, so slow people don't get in the way (I'm somewhere between slow and pretty average and never had any issues).

[raglanash]

Have been doing that, looks like fun. I would really like to try the MX track but dont want to get in the way of better riders who are there to have a ride to. Will sneak on if its empty.

Just get out there man it will never be empty. You paid just like the fast guys!
Don't look behind you and just stick to your own line there is plenty of room there for everyone. Slow fast or in between. It's 4+ meters wide most of the way, you are 0.5m wide!
Don't try and get out of the way on an MX track ever just do your thing, people get clipped when they look back, swerve or do something random that the rider behind is not expecting.
Most of all have fun out there and remember everyone starts somewhere..

[browny]

speed is your friend as has been pointed out in other comments, its sometimes hard to convince yourself of that fact and that obviously depends on skill levels. but its true we all had to start somewhere.as for armpump I used to get chronic pump and I fixed it nearly completely by using those squeezy spring things( not to sure of their real names) that you squeeze in each hand with the little handles, but instead of doing reps I just hold them in. I started with 2 minutes and worked up to longer times. I can easily do 10 mins now, when 2 mins seemed like an eternity to start with. the squeezy spring things come in different tensions, and just to be a hero at the time I got the hard ones but that ended up being a good decision. even after a week or two of not riding and not using said squeezys I might get pump for practice laps in a race or early stages of 1st lap of a trail ride and then its gone for the day. worked for me anyway.

[motor_mayhem]

Just get out there man it will never be empty. You paid just like the fast guys!
Don't look behind you and just stick to your own line there is plenty of room there for everyone. Slow fast or in between. It's 4+ meters wide most of the way, you are 0.5m wide!
Don't try and get out of the way on an MX track ever just do your thing, people get clipped when they look back, swerve or do something random that the rider behind is not expecting.
Most of all have fun out there and remember everyone starts somewhere..

Exactly what he said

[Jay GTI]

Going out to MotoX Central on Sat, with the specific intention to try the advice on here about warming up properly on the bike. I'll do 2 consecutive laps of the enduro loop, which should approximate (ish) the first lap of an enduro/XC race.

If I'm completely screwed and need a rest after that, I know I need to try something else, but the idea is to do the first loop at a very conscious half-pace, then try and pick up my speed for the second loop.

[nzspokes]

Going out to MotoX Central on Sat, with the specific intention to try the advice on here about warming up properly on the bike. I'll do 2 consecutive laps of the enduro loop, which should approximate (ish) the first lap of an enduro/XC race.

If I'm completely screwed and need a rest after that, I know I need to try something else, but the idea is to do the first loop at a very conscious half-pace, then try and pick up my speed for the second loop.

First 2ks are the roughest. Should be easy for a good rider.

Pro tip, exits are diversions for the hard bits.

[Jay GTI]

First 2ks are the roughest. Should be easy for a good rider.

Pro tip, exits are diversions for the hard bits.

:) Yeah been there loads when it was Kimmy's and unless they've radically changed it since it became MotoX Central, I should be ok. There's nothing on it I struggle with, just a few sections that I find are a bit of a challenge to ride fast.

[raglanash]

:) Yeah been there loads when it was Kimmy's and unless they've radically changed it since it became MotoX Central, I should be ok. There's nothing on it I struggle with, just a few sections that I find are a bit of a challenge to ride fast.

They have taken the bog jump away!! 15k loop is in good condition, my 11 year old got around the whole lot on Monday with only one stall on his crf 80 . Stoked!

[Jay GTI]

They have taken the bog jump away!! 15k loop is in good condition, my 11 year old got around the whole lot on Monday with only one stall on his crf 80 . Stoked!

Not a great loss for me as although I could jump that distance, I never quite had the balls to try it. I've seen a couple of bikes being fished out of the bog though, which didn't help with my small cahones issue...

[nzspokes]

:) Yeah been there loads when it was Kimmy's and unless they've radically changed it since it became MotoX Central, I should be ok. There's nothing on it I struggle with, just a few sections that I find are a bit of a challenge to ride fast.

Righto, just because i just found it dont make it new I guess.

Let us know how you get on.

[Jay GTI]

Righto, just because i just found it dont make it new I guess.

Let us know how you get on.

So, MotoX Central is awesome, they've put the time in to keep it in the condition it should be, so I was having a ball. Even did the MX track for a few laps, which is so much better than it's ever been and there's now nothing on it that scares me. Just wish I could jump better...

However.... my "race warm-up" didn't quite go to plan. I took it really easy on the bike for the first loop of the enduro track and felt pretty good for the first half of it, was riding slow but relaxed, making sure I didn't push myself and made a serious mental effort to back off the pace when I felt myself tense up. Then my throttle hand started cramping and I was struggling from then on. No arm-pump as such, which was awesome, but I couldn't ride out the cramp and as soon as I tried to up the pace to anything above pottering around, it would become painful. I intended to try two laps, second being the up to race pace (well, my race pace at least) but I was struggling too much and my clutch hand was now also cramping. So stopped at the ute for a rest after the first loop.

And, as usual, 5 minutes later I was back on the bike and having no issues, riding fine and as fast as I can...

Next time I'm going to try the pre-ride warm-up, which will be a series of short, high-intensity exercises to see if I can get the blood flowing and the body ready before I get on the bike (press-ups, squats, crunches etc).