Traffic Congestion

[The Stranger]

So you want to solve Aucklands traffic woes do you?
It seems everyone else does too.

Those whom live in Wellington, or the coromandel for that matter want to solve our peak traffic problems. As a business owner with vehicles on the raod all the time, I assure you I would like the problem solved for the whole day thanks, as I am sure our customer would too as they are paying for it.

Now why would a party that claims to be green want to use trains when it is well known that it costs a lot more (in terms of resources at least) to move a passenger on a train than in a car (essentially because of weight per passenger). I guess there is some logic in there but it escapes me at the moment. Plus I can just wait to see what happens when I explain to a customer why they have a 3 hour travel charge.

So surely busses are the answer then.
For every bum in a seat there is one less car on the road. This must ease congestion right.
Well.
As I travel along Gt North road in the mornings ther are 6 busses taking turns at holding up the left lane. Not only this the back bus does not want to be held up by the one in front so plays leap frog, and as always wait patiently for a break in the traffic in the right lane before pulling out.
Yeah Right.
So now the left lane can't move and it is like someone just threw a boulder in a stream in the right.
We get to the pt Chev intersection where we have a bus lane and viola the traffic flow smoothe as silk in both lanes as the busses are not wrecking havoc.
Furhter along on manakau rd and no bus lane. The entire left lane does not get used at all by cars (on the stretch we drive on) because they all know that the busses are going to screw them up.

So where am I going with this.
Well Trains are not the answer, busses cause way more problems than they solve. So lets get busses in bus lanes so they are out of our way. Shit I pay enough for the bloody things (over $30,000,000.00) I may as well pay a bit more to get them out the way and tell the idiots in power to look after motorbikes.

[Ixion]

Buses are only more efficient than cars if they are full. A lot of the time they are not, especially outside peak hours and at the ends of the routes. Take a note sometime of how many buses you see with only 2 or 3 passengers. Sometimes empty (but they still have to complete the trip). Overall I suspect that the bus fleet is LESS efficient than cars. Certainly less than motorbikes. So if everyone in power is concerned about congestion why has NOT ONE of them suggesting encouraging bikes ?

[Lou Girardin]

Buses are only more efficient than cars if they are full. A lot of the time they are not, especially outside peak hours and at the ends of the routes. Take a note sometime of how many buses you see with only 2 or 3 passengers. Sometimes empty (but they still have to complete the trip). Overall I suspect that the bus fleet is LESS efficient than cars. Certainly less than motorbikes. So if everyone in power is concerned about congestion why has NOT ONE of them suggesting encouraging bikes ?

Because they hate us. They hate the way we get through traffic, They hate how cool we look. They hate our freedom. They hate our rebelliousness.
Fuck 'em. :motu:

[MD]

....So if everyone in power is concerned about congestion why has NOT ONE of them suggesting encouraging bikes ?
Interesting coincidence. I sent this email in response to the National Party website feedback on Roading & Transport yesterday.
START QUOTE:
please consider promoting motorcycles and scooters as a wise alternative for a change instead of rolling out the usual list of worn out transport solutions- spend more money on more roads, more buses & more trains.
Over crowded roads is the sole cause of the raft of transport problems we face i.e. petrol shortages and price rises, pollution and congestion leading to Governments being forced to spend more on transport/roads.
By promoting, I mean stop punishing motorcyclists for choosing to use a more efficient and cheaper form of transport. Bike registration, ACC levies and insurance are punitive where these people should be rewarded for freeing up road space. Getting a bike licence is much harder than a car. Young boy racers can't kill four mates at once on a bike but they can get behind a car too easy in NZ. Bikes require less energy and materials to manufacture, less cost to transport to market and the obvious, they use far less petrol and parking spaces etc. A rider on a bike without a passenger is still operating the vehicle at 50% of it's people carrying capacity - how many cars and 4wds commuting on our roads can claim that level of efficiency?
Legislators must eventually wake up to the inevitable oil crisis and see that we must discourage large cars/4wds from cities and reward/encourage cheaper fuel efficent alternatives.
Similarly measures need to be taken to reduce the use of trucks and move more goods by rail. No infrastructure or big spend is required to get bikes and rail up and running- they are already there just overlooked and not promoted/encouraged enough.END

Wonder if I'll get a reply? Wonder if the authorities will ever wake up to the bleeding obvious transport solution sitting right under their noses? The London congestion fee reduced traffic and the flow on effects were all positive i.e. congestion gone, accidents reduced, consumption reduced, less stressed people and so on

[pritch]

So you want to solve Aucklands traffic woes do you?


No! I don't give a shit. So long as you don't ask me to pay for it.
Unfortunately that's not currently the case. The congenital idiots that Aucklanders have elected to control their affairs over several generations have allowed the Auckland infrastructure to become seriously run down.

Fine. Fix it.

There are going to be some serious rates rises in Auckland. If you can't afford them, maybe y'all had better move to Hokitika or somewhere more affordable...

[SuperDave]

Certainly less than motorbikes. So if everyone in power is concerned about congestion why has NOT ONE of them suggesting encouraging bikes ?

Because it's a good idea, thats why. :yes:

[Biff]

Shit I pay enough for the bloody things (over $30,000,000.00)

Sorry - what?
You personaly paid $30 million?
Erm, can I be your friend?
You see I have this rather sick aunt.....

[Beemer]

I'm with pritch008 - I don't give a shit how congested the roads are in Dorkland, I rarely go there and have no sympathy for those who choose to live there. :violin: I do object to being forced to help pay for their problems though. Can't see any of them putting their hands in their pockets to solve the Pukerua Bay to Paremata congestion.

[Marmoot]

Nah... jams are good for inner-city property prices.....Keep them on, I'd say!

:devil2:

[The Stranger]

I must admit I had not realised that other regions were being forced to pay for the traffic congestion in Auckland, other than as an indirect result of the general impact on the economy.

As a matter of interest to myself, how much are you being forced to pay and how is this levied?

I would surely be annoyed were I you also.

[Jantar]

I must admit I had not realised that other regions were being forced to pay for the traffic congestion in Auckland, other than as an indirect result of the general impact on the economy.

As a matter of interest to myself, how much are you being forced to pay and how is this levied?

I would surely be annoyed were I you also.

As far as i am aware there are three separate levies which the whole country pays to help Auckland's transport woes.

The first is a petrol levy which was imposed many years ago to pay for a fuel pipeline from Marsden Point to Auckland. The assurance given at the time was that fuel would cost less to transport to Auckland and the whole country would see cheaper fuel costs as a result. That is why we, in Central Otago, pay almost 10 cents/litre more than Dorklanders. Although the pipeline is well and truely paid for now, the levy has never been removed.

The second levy is an Auckland Motorway levy imposed about 4 years ago. Also never removed.

The latest is an Auckland congestion levy which is quite recent. However to be fair, only a portion of this money is going to Auckland and other areas are also getting some benefit. However Auckland is getting much more per km of road than any other area.

[oldrider]

I actually don't mind paying the levy for Auckland's roading problems to be solved. I am a New Zealander and so are they. Their problem is my problem.

What I hate is these lieing bastard "socialist" politicians stealing my money and just waisting it or hiding it. Then telling me how they are going to use it for my benefit now that they have suddenly found it again. Then they want me to vote for them so they can do it all again. Stuff them and "Compost the Greens" (their true vocation). Really, really, pissed off, John.

[idb]

The latest is an Auckland congestion levy which is quite recent. However to be fair, only a portion of this money is going to Auckland and other areas are also getting some benefit. However Auckland is getting much more per km of road than any other area.
If I'm not mistaken though Jantar, the only way that the regions can access these funds is to match them dollar for dollar.

[Eurodave]

START QUOTE:
[I]please consider promoting motorcycles and scooters as a wise alternative for a change instead of rolling out the usual list of worn out transport solutions- spend more money on more roads, more buses & more trains.
Over crowded roads is the sole cause of the raft of transport problems we face i.e. petrol shortages and price rises, pollution and congestion leading to Governments being forced to spend more on transport/roads.
By promoting, I mean stop punishing motorcyclists for choosing to use a more efficient and cheaper form of transport. Bike registration, ACC levies and insurance are punitive where these people should be rewarded for freeing up road space. Getting a bike licence is much harder than a car. Young boy racers can't kill four mates at once on a bike but they can get behind a car too easy in NZ. Bikes require less energy and materials to manufacture, less cost to transport to market and the obvious, they use far less petrol and parking spaces etc. A rider on a bike without a passenger is still operating the vehicle at 50% of it's people carrying capacity - how many cars and 4wds commuting on our roads can claim that level of efficiency?
Legislators must eventually wake up to the inevitable oil crisis and see that we must discourage large cars/4wds from cities and reward/encourage cheaper fuel efficent alternatives.
Similarly measures need to be taken to reduce the use of trucks and move more goods by rail. No infrastructure or big spend is required to get bikes and rail up and running- they are already there just overlooked and not promoted/encouraged enough.


STOP MAKING PERFECT SENSE!! YOU KNOW DAMN WELL THAT NO ONE IN AUTHORITY/POWER WILL EVER LISTEN TO SUCH LOGIC!!!

[MacD]

I must admit I had not realised that other regions were being forced to pay for the traffic congestion in Auckland, other than as an indirect result of the general impact on the economy.

As a matter of interest to myself, how much are you being forced to pay and how is this levied?

I would surely be annoyed were I you also.

Don't be annoyed because it's not true, well not in the way that is often suggested (ie: a direct levy of non-Aucklanders to pay for Auckland roads).

I was going to write a long reasoned rebuttal, but realised it was pointless as we are talking about perceptions rather than facts.

Here's one way of looking at it, according to Land Transport NZ (http://www.transfund.govt.nz/funding/nltp/funding.html) (ex-Tranzfund) figures the Auckland (transport) region contains 35% of NZ's population yet receives about 26% of the NLTP funding allocation (http://www.transfund.govt.nz/funding/nltp/2005/northern.html).

So on a population basis alone Aucklanders could be considered to be subsidising the rest of NZ's roading network. :blah:

You might want to also note that there is also a specific $10M contribution (http://www.transfund.govt.nz/funding/nltp/funding.html) to the Wellington region from the Crown Account in the funding plan. This money (like the specfic Auckland contribution) is being redirected from funds that would usually be siphoned off from the fuel taxes into the Crown account as shown in this older Transfund document (http://www.transfund.govt.nz/pubs/funding2004-05.pdf).

[myvice]

There’s a traffic problem?
Can’t be!
I travel to Auckland from Manurewa (26k's) every day and it only takes me about 1/2 an hour.
Once it took me nearly 45 minuets but that’s pretty rare...


Why do people sit in those big inert metal boxes on the road tho?
You think they would be out riding or something?

[MD]

Good to see the media might be waking up. DomPost ran a story on scooters as an alternative to gas guzzlers on Friday with input from WMCC and Motorad. Then tonight TV1 News ran a similar "scooters are good and cheap'' spot with a story on a Mum and Daughter who have both switched to a scooter. More people riding scoots can only be good for us. Some will get hooked and buy more bikes. Keep that petrol price rising - just long enough to start the movement though.

[The Stranger]

As far as i am aware there are three separate levies which the whole country pays to help Auckland's transport woes.

The first is a petrol levy which was imposed many years ago to pay for a fuel pipeline from Marsden Point to Auckland. The assurance given at the time was that fuel would cost less to transport to Auckland and the whole country would see cheaper fuel costs as a result. That is why we, in Central Otago, pay almost 10 cents/litre more than Dorklanders. Although the pipeline is well and truely paid for now, the levy has never been removed.

The second levy is an Auckland Motorway levy imposed about 4 years ago. Also never removed.

The latest is an Auckland congestion levy which is quite recent. However to be fair, only a portion of this money is going to Auckland and other areas are also getting some benefit. However Auckland is getting much more per km of road than any other area.
The fuel pipeline is an infrustructure issue, it in no way helps Auckland's traffic issues. My post was about road traffic not sea traffic.

As to levies imposed but not removed, it is no secret that the govt takes what it wants and continues to do so despite what you and I say. I would welcome your explanation as to how the govt stealing our money is Auckland's fault. The theives are in Wellington and hey I sure didn't vote for them.

Conveniently you choose to use the of length of road.
What does length of raod have to do with anything?
The Auckland region at last census had 31.3% of the population and the growth rate for all centres in Auckland was greater than the national average. That trend is projected to continue and is in all probability 33% by now. Could you not work out that the cost of maintaining a raod is affected by the volume of traffic on it.

An analysis of the National Traffic Database conducted in 1996 shows that the money collected from the Auckland region exceeded expenditure in the Auckland region by 132% (highest equal with Cantabury)
By contrast areas like Otugo and southland only paid only about 70% of the money expended some much less.

Now did you hear Aucklanders bleating about paying for the rest of the country or calling you disparaging names. You guys need to get out and ride more, loosen up a bit, try and overcome your insecurities and phobias about Aucklanders and realise that it is a case of swings and roundabouts.