MSAC - Two new members wanted

[MrKiwi]

Advertised today by ACC...

Applications are now open for two new members of the Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council.
Members contribute to the Council’s strategic role advising ACC on the use of the Motorcycle Safety Levy, and ensure delivery on Council’s strategic and business plans to reduce motorcycle and moped injuries and fatalities.

If you are passionate about motorcycling, have a strong set of business skills and are an excellent communicator then we would like to hear from you.



Click here to read more https://careers.acc.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=HsmBa (https://careers.acc.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=HsmBa)

[Katman]

....and are an excellent communicator....

Fuckin' oath.

[Smifffy]

The last strong communicator got sacked for communicating.

[Hitcher]

Where's Carver when he's needed?

[Berries]

Members contribute to the Council’s strategic role advising ACC on the use of the Motorcycle Safety Levy
It gets used then?

[Big Dave]

The two members being replaced are worn out from their constant achievements?

[Smifffy]

I'm free on the 12 Dec, I'm thinking of applying. Think they'll mind if I turn up for the interview in leathers?

[Big Dave]

I'm free on the 12 Dec, I'm thinking of applying. Think they'll mind if I turn up for the interview in leathers?

I'd sponsor you.


I'm not having a shot at those that have put in either - I know some of those people and they would have a good go - just the instruments of Government.

[Big Dave]

Speaking of which - Mr Kiwi - will the Council take applications to fund other safety initiatives or projects?

[bogan]

I'm free on the 12 Dec, I'm thinking of applying. Think they'll mind if I turn up for the interview in leathers?

Well, guess that depends on the sort of leathers

288680

But you know what the worst thing is, I think even the guy pictured would do a better job, I mean he would at least spend the money :rolleyes:

I mean what have we got so far, a big MSL stockpile and no levy reduction when all the other vehicles just got one right? Forgive me if I remain unimpressed.

[Murray]

Members contribute to the Council’s strategic role advising ACC on the MIS-use of the Motorcycle Safety Levy

Fixed it for you

[MSTRS]

If the job pays less than $100,000pa and all expenses paid, then I wouldn't sacrifice my principles. D'you get a company credit card?

[Bald Eagle]

Part time only and the usual dishonesty. Postion description say 12 to 16 days a year, there web site shows they only had 3 meetings this year so I wouldnt give up my day job yet.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[MSTRS]

Oh - I get it - the McSack members aren't there to get rich OR to help bikers.

Would MrKiwi tell us again why this organisation exists?

[Pampera]

I note they had a meeting in September, which has been reported on their website. Two or three screens of waffle papering over nothing. Still nothing achieved, nothing worthwhile planned (they are going to give NZTA money for basic road maintenance?), no proper business plan and no set of accounts for the, presumably, millions of dollars they have collected.


How about this from Mark Gilbert; "we know changes to levies are part of a long-term process, and that any reduction for motorcyclists is likely to be some years away". I don't recall the process being "long term" when the levies were put up or we were stung $30 per motorcycle per year to fund MotoNZ. I will concede however that, based on what we have seen over the last 3 or so years, the delivery of any achievement by MotoNZ is certainly VERY long term.

It states in MotoNZ Terms of Reference that they are required to deliver action that reduces ACC motorcycle levies That levies are not being reduced after three (?) years of MotoNZ existence and Mark Gilbert has said there is no chance of this anytime soon says all that needs to be said about MotoNZ's effectiveness.

From their Terms of Reference http://motonz.org.nz/assets/ToR.pdf :

"Propose the funding of projects consistent with ACC’s legislation (i.e. be cost effective
for the ACC Motor Vehicle Scheme and demonstrate a net cost reduction in motorcycle
levies over time)."


Michael

[Pampera]

If you are passionate about motorcycling, have a strong set of business skills and are an excellent communicator then we would like to hear from you.
Click here to read more https://careers.acc.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=HsmBa (https://careers.acc.co.nz/jobdetails?ajid=HsmBa) [/INDENT]

Also from the MotoNZ Terms of Reference:

"Neither ACC nor the MSL Council will make any oral or
written statement or comment to the media, which criticises the other party or which could adversely
affect public opinion of either ACC or Council or which brings the other party into disrepute."

The MotoNZ website is all about how motorcyclists "own the options" and will bring their own ideas to solving the problems of motorcycle safety. In effect the above is bureaucratic language forbidding MotoNZ Council members from expressing any view differing from that of ACC and does call into question the claims of the MotoNZ website. The need to be an "excellent communicator" should also be considered in this context.

Michael

[MrKiwi]

Sorry for not replying sooner, been busy with other things.

Let's get real here though for a minute. I posted the link because I read on this forum in lots of places your criticism of MSAC and ACC. That's fine, no one is stopping you from holding whatever view you want. However, I thought some of might be interested in giving it go, endeavour to see if you can help make a difference. But no, it appears some prefer to hide behind a key board and throw darts and arrows. That's real easy to do and I was tempted to throw quite a few back:ar15:. That wouldn't be constructive... :nono:

Michael, you're correct the rules of appointment mean those on MSAC can not bring the Minister of ACC, ACC itself or MSAC into disrepute. That is normal terms of appointment to advisory boards. It does not, however, stop me from having a different view and I do, on quite a few things. It is how you choose to communicate those differing views that count.

My motivation from being on the Council is simple. I would rather try and influence how the $30 each year taken off me and you is spent than let officials be the sole arbitrators of that. We are making some progress on this front, but not as fast as I, or my fellow Councillors, would like. Being on the Council is not for everyone admittedly. Also, since I am on the Council, it pays to let people keep me honest so I'm not taking all of the above posts as personal criticism. Some of it is, though, a little over the top in my view.

David.

[Zedder]

Given our history of copying Australian (Victoria state) roading rules/safety campaigns including the Motorcycle Safety Levy project, doesn't that make the NZ programme a little redundant apart from some local issues?

[Smifffy]

Sorry for not replying sooner, been busy with other things.

Let's get real here though for a minute. I posted the link because I read on this forum in lots of places your criticism of MSAC and ACC. That's fine, no one is stopping you from holding whatever view you want. However, I thought some of might be interested in giving it go, endeavour to see if you can help make a difference. But no, it appears some prefer to hide behind a key board and throw darts and arrows. That's real easy to do and I was tempted to throw quite a few back:ar15:. That wouldn't be constructive... :nono:

Michael, you're correct the rules of appointment mean those on MSAC can not bring the Minister of ACC, ACC itself or MSAC into disrepute. That is normal terms of appointment to advisory boards. It does not, however, stop me from having a different view and I do, on quite a few things. It is how you choose to communicate those differing views that count.

My motivation from being on the Council is simple. I would rather try and influence how the $30 each year taken off me and you is spent than let officials be the sole arbitrators of that. We are making some progress on this front, but not as fast as I, or my fellow Councillors, would like. Being on the Council is not for everyone admittedly. Also, since I am on the Council, it pays to let people keep me honest so I'm not taking all of the above posts as personal criticism. Some of it is, though, a little over the top in my view.

David.

Thanks for posting the original link. Did I mention I'm considering it?

[Paul in NZ]

Don't be discouraged MrKiwi - your average motorcyclist is a bit of a mouthy rebel... ;)

We appreciate your efforts but please understand that not everyone feels it to be likely to end well. Not sure why that is but it is what it is. Its not the $30 we are sore about really....

I wouldnt have a clue what the tribunal does and frankly I'm not really enough of a biker to have much opinion on stuff so I'm definately not tribunal material ;-(

[MrKiwi]

Thanks for posting the original link. Did I mention I'm considering it?Thanks, and all the best.

[Zedder]

Don't be discouraged MrKiwi - your average motorcyclist is a bit of a mouthy rebel... ;)

We appreciate your efforts but please understand that not everyone feels it to be likely to end well. Not sure why that is but it is what it is. Its not the $30 we are sore about really....

I wouldnt have a clue what the tribunal does and frankly I'm not really enough of a biker to have much opinion on stuff so I'm definately not tribunal material ;-(

It looks like the Aussies have done most of the work already: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferRiders/Motorcyclists/MotorcycleSafetyLevy/

[Ocean1]

It looks like the Aussies have done most of the work already: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferRiders/Motorcyclists/MotorcycleSafetyLevy/

"One of the most important initiatives funded by the Levy to date has been road improvements at over 148 blackspot locations, where multiple motorcycle crashes have occurred or on routes where motorcyclists are most at risk. The improvements are specifically developed by engineers and expert riders to address the types of crashes riders have experienced at these locations."

Which is really the type of work that makes sense, given the source of the funds in question.

So where is NZ's effort in this regard?

[MSTRS]

"One of the most important initiatives funded by the Levy to date has been road improvements at over 148 blackspot locations, where multiple motorcycle crashes have occurred or on routes where motorcyclists are most at risk. The improvements are specifically developed by engineers and expert riders to address the types of crashes riders have experienced at these locations."

Which is really the type of work that makes sense, given the source of the funds in question.

So where is NZ's effort in this regard?

In the circular system. Or File 13.

[Berries]

Its not the $30 we are sore about really....
Speak for yourself. I have yet to see anything done with the $30 taken from me each year. You'd think that with the annual demand for the fee that we get there might be an update to say where all the money is going and, you know, get some of us onside?

[Zedder]

Speak for yourself. I have yet to see anything done with the $30 taken from me each year. You'd think that with the annual demand for the fee that we get there might be an update to say where all the money is going and, you know, get some of us onside?

They have done this:http://www.motonz.org.nz/news/trafinz-conference-2013/

Although it's taken awhile and I'd have thought it's the NZTA's job.

[Smifffy]

They have done this:http://www.motonz.org.nz/news/trafinz-conference-2013/

Although it's taken awhile and I'd have thought it's the NZTA's job.

Well they attended and brought along speakers. looks like a good run. I was available the Thursday and Friday too. I do enjoy a good party.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lreqcvz1iz0dra8/IPoco_yBpU

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8wo0chuj9mjq0qh/byhyPca2Pq#/

Heres our display: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/sh/ojmdl7uvcmax8mm/koS-XRC9Vb/DSC_2301.jpg?token_hash=AAGlGwmc3Dhbp3uGy-CcrtZ0wJSCIhYaa5kWHA8_korRIQ

I would embed but then I'd get infracted again for kb not having a resize function, so you'll hafta clicky linky yosef. You may notice they parked the motorcycle in the middle of the road, next to a bar leaner. Subliminal messaging?

They should have broadcast this a bit more. I reckon it's worth the levy funding on it's own. They even had Karen Hay there, but I don't think she was the one from RWP, maybe if we increase the levy we can get her?

[Paul in NZ]

Speak for yourself. I have yet to see anything done with the $30 taken from me each year. You'd think that with the annual demand for the fee that we get there might be an update to say where all the money is going and, you know, get some of us onside?

OK - its not the $30 I'm sore about.... (its the rest of the increase in rego down to ACC)

[MSTRS]

OK - its not the $30 I'm sore about.... (its the rest of the increase in rego down to ACC)

Chances are that most bikers are pissed off about the whole shameful debacle...increase, m/c-only levy, the bullshit that is McSack.
Or they are like me and said "Fuck that, rego is going on hold"

[MrKiwi]

"One of the most important initiatives funded by the Levy to date has been road improvements at over 148 blackspot locations, where multiple motorcycle crashes have occurred or on routes where motorcyclists are most at risk. The improvements are specifically developed by engineers and expert riders to address the types of crashes riders have experienced at these locations."

Which is really the type of work that makes sense, given the source of the funds in question.

So where is NZ's effort in this regard?

I agree, making roads safer is worthwhile, considering roads are designed for trucks and cars, not motorbikes. MSAC has done a bit of work in this area, looking at the Southern Coromandal loop to see what road engineering features it would be useful to promote to road controlling authorities around the country. Recently Council considered a request from the NZTA to part fund some upgrades to the southern Coromandel loop and the Council agreed to do this. ACC is now working with the NZTA to make this happen. Once this work is done, it should form a useful template for works elsewhere in NZ.

The Chair has summarised this work http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/ (http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/) (See Project updates Southern Coromandel Loop initiative).

[willytheekid]

Speak for yourself. I have yet to see anything done with the $30 taken from me each year. You'd think that with the annual demand for the fee that we get there might be an update to say where all the money is going and, you know, get some of us onside?

+1

Notice that MrKiwi has just REPEATEDLY ignored this message tho...as it may effect there funding to do piss all for us.(except to make pritty little graphs that serve the riding community...how??)

...so MRKIWI, go tell your slimy self serving businessmen/lawyer mates that formed motonz just! to SWINDLE us out of even more money! -


Go fuck yourself motonz
:motu:


...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders! (We can make our own BS graphs thanks)



Was that clear enough?...or do they require it in triplicate with pritty graphs!

...thieving fucking maggots!

[Jeff Sichoe]

Make the Rego increase part of fuel taxes so that all road users share the cost of them slaming into us and / or us crashing.

Much like cyclists get let off the hook because 'they usually have cars and pay rego on that'

Make an advanced riding course free for all before taking your full license exam / test (or available for full license holders at a time of their choosing) to use up the $30 a year we pay.

(See, it's not that hard...)

[bogan]

...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders! (We can make our own BS graphs thanks)

Fucking aye willy!

[Zedder]

Make the Rego increase part of fuel taxes so that all road users share the cost of them slaming into us and / or us crashing.

Much like cyclists get let off the hook because 'they usually have cars and pay rego on that'

Make an advanced riding course free for all before taking your full license exam / test (or available for full license holders at a time of their choosing) to use up the $30 a year we pay.

(See, it's not that hard...)

No, no no!

One must first create a sub council of the main Government department responsible for the initial issue and of course obtain (more) funds from the end users.

Then much research, investigation and meetings are required (even though it's been completed overseas previously) in order to correctly formulate a strategy that meets the criteria.

These things take time.

[MrKiwi]

+1

Notice that MrKiwi has just REPEATEDLY ignored this message tho...as it may effect there funding to do piss all for us.(except to make pritty little graphs that serve the riding community...how??)

...so MRKIWI, go tell your slimy self serving businessmen/lawyer mates that formed motonz just! to SWINDLE us out of even more money! -


Go fuck yourself motonz
:motu:


...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders! (We can make our own BS graphs thanks)



Was that clear enough?...or do they require it in triplicate with pritty graphs!

...thieving fucking maggots!

You can think what you like, but don't assume so much, as it appears you have. I have not repeatedly ignored the issue of the $30.00, my views have been expressed and aired many times in this forum. Put simply, I don't think we should be paying this. But while we are being levied I come back to my main point, do you want officials alone deciding how this money is spent.

The Council has been set up to provide advice on how the money is spent.

The debate on whether or not the levy should be imposed is not a MSAC debate, it never has been and never will be. That debate is rightfully a political debate best argued by the likes of BRONZ etc.

[mikeey01]

1/3rd on Administration
1/3rd on Consultants
1/3rd on Advertising

Isn't this what normally happens?

[Berries]

I'm a consultant. We take 50%.

[Smifffy]

I'm a consultant. We take 50%.


289024
Consultants

[R650R]

Yep I want my $60 back too (two bikes).
The other bad thing about groups like this is they end up being interviewed by media as 'the other side' in a 'balanced' news article on whatever latest issue is and avoid getting decent quotes from people not afraid to say the truth.
We still have wire barriers and roadside furniture in wrong places, that alone should have been one thing they confronted straight away...
Had a look at their webpage/forum thingy awhile back and it seemed much same sentiments expressed there also.

[Katman]

The other bad thing about groups like this is they end up being interviewed by media as 'the other side' in a 'balanced' news article on whatever latest issue is and avoid getting decent quotes from people not afraid to say the truth.


I do hope you're not suggesting the retarded ravings found on Kiwibiker would provide a more 'balanced' view.

[Bald Eagle]

I'm a consultant. We take 50%.

Consultant : Someone who borrows your watch to tell you the time and charges you for the time.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[Katman]

+1

Notice that MrKiwi has just REPEATEDLY ignored this message tho...as it may effect there funding to do piss all for us.(except to make pritty little graphs that serve the riding community...how??)

...so MRKIWI, go tell your slimy self serving businessmen/lawyer mates that formed motonz just! to SWINDLE us out of even more money! -


Go fuck yourself motonz
:motu:


...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders! (We can make our own BS graphs thanks)



Was that clear enough?...or do they require it in triplicate with pritty graphs!

...thieving fucking maggots!

A $30 levy is the least of our problems.

[The Reibz]

MrKiwi,

I would like to represent the motorcycle community for this fantastic position. I am a raging alcoholic with self control issues and a self confessed loose cunt. Don't let that put you off though, I really am a responsible bloke with the best intentions.

People seem to be complaining about the 30 bucks and were exactly its going.

My idea is to host a massive pissup and bbq somewhere in NZ for all NZ motorcyclists. Bring your own funnel/bongs. With that 30 bucks surely we could put on a couple of hundy kegs. There would be live bands like Shihad, and guest speakers such as Mark Lundy. There would be bareknuckle boxing matches, snooker, pokie machines, strippers, drag racing, burnout comps, show and shine, pit girls and a bouncy castle for the kids. The mad butcher would be a major sponsor and there would be free sassages for every cunt that wanted one.

I reckon this would be pretty feasable and cunts would behave themselves

Reckon im on the right track?

Fuck motonz and ACC

[MrKiwi]

MrKiwi,

I would like to represent the motorcycle community for this fantastic position. I am a raging alcoholic with self control issues and a self confessed loose cunt. Don't let that put you off though, I really am a responsible bloke with the best intentions.

People seem to be complaining about the 30 bucks and were exactly its going.

My idea is to host a massive pissup and bbq somewhere in NZ for all NZ motorcyclists. Bring your own funnel/bongs. With that 30 bucks surely we could put on a couple of hundy kegs. There would be live bands like Shihad, and guest speakers such as Mark Lundy. There would be bareknuckle boxing matches, snooker, pokie machines, strippers, drag racing, burnout comps, show and shine, pit girls and a bouncy castle for the kids. The mad butcher would be a major sponsor and there would be free sassages for every cunt that wanted one.

I reckon this would be pretty feasable and cunts would behave themselves

Reckon im on the right track?

Fuck motonz and ACC

I come back to two points. Are you doing something to change the rules so we don't need t pay the $30 bucks. And while we are being forced to pay it, are you happy to leave that up to officials only?

I don't have to do the MSAC thing, it would be easier not to.

Maybe I should bury my head in the sand. Am I on the right track...

[The Reibz]

As far as I see it MotoNZ aint given us shit for the 30 bucks we have paid over the years. I would use it to throw one hell of a party and do it anually. Never mind safety, they are fucken motorcycles, you don't buy one because its a safe way to travel

[bogan]

And while we are being forced to pay it, are you happy to leave that up to officials only?

How would we tell the difference?

I don't think any biker would argue we have got value for money so far. Seems more like it was originally a ploy to take the wind out of protest action by getting the protest organisations into the fold.

Regardless of how good your intentions and the intentions of other member are or were (stoney got shitcanned for his it would seem), shit is just not getting done, we get fuck all input into things, and fuck all updates on things.

[Zedder]

I come back to two points. Are you doing something to change the rules so we don't need t pay the $30 bucks. And while we are being forced to pay it, are you happy to leave that up to officials only?

I don't have to do the MSAC thing, it would be easier not to.

Maybe I should bury my head in the sand. Am I on the right track...

Here's a bit of a plan:

Firstly: Direct NZTA to the relevant section of the Vic Roads web site: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferRiders/Motorcyclists/MotorcycleSafetyLevy/

Secondly: Suggest they implement the same treatments.

Thirdly: Stop charging Kiwi motorcyclists.

Lastly: Shut up shop and go motorcycling.

[Pampera]

MotoNZ paid for this presentation to be made to the Trafinz conference:

http://trafinz.org.nz/workspace/downloads/raphael-grzebieta-2-524dfcb668f97.pdf


This presentation was promoted as setting out the results of credible studies into the performance of crash barriers on motorcycle safety; "Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers". The normal expected approach for a report on a study of this type, if it follows the normal rules for work with claims to rigor, is to provide a summary, set out the hypothesis or theory being tested - with perhaps some context, describe the experimental method or analysis carried out, present results, analyse and review the results and then use these results to support a conclusion.

What we have is summary or abstract, no real structure, just a random selection of images leavened with lurid and emotive "sound bites" in a variety of fonts and formats. Try out this:

"Elephant in the room!
Large controversy with motorcyclists
concerning installation of road safety
barrier but in particular wire rope barriers"


Rather than a sober statement of a hypothesis to be tested we have:

"All sorts of myths and claims being made
concerning roadside barriers."


The conclusion to the presentation includes the following, coming out of nowhere:

"Recommendations
• Require that a person must have a full
driver’s licence before they can apply for a
motorcycle licence.
• "returning" riders: Re-testing at various
intervals in order to retain licence currency
(once obtained it seems they remain forever,
even if no riding has occurred for years.)
• Require ISA speed limiters for motorcycles.
• Require alcohol interlocks for motorcycles.
Recommendations
• Require ABS breaking [sic.]".


How exactly do these recommendations find their way into a presentation of the results of a research study into the effectiveness or otherwise of crash barriers ("Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers")? What is more, nowhere in the presentation is there set out any data, testing or analysis relating to the ABS or the licencing recommendations.

To me this presentation has more of the feel of partisan campaigning or crusading than scientific research.

Whatever the answer to the question "are barriers are safe or not?" is , the impression this presentation delivers does not encourage confidence in the work behind it.


Michael

[buggerit]

I agree, making roads safer is worthwhile, considering roads are designed for trucks and cars, not motorbikes. MSAC has done a bit of work in this area, looking at the Southern Coromandal loop to see what road engineering features it would be useful to promote to road controlling authorities around the country. Recently Council considered a request from the NZTA to part fund some upgrades to the southern Coromandel loop and the Council agreed to do this. ACC is now working with the NZTA to make this happen. Once this work is done, it should form a useful template for works elsewhere in NZ.

The Chair has summarised this work http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/ (http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/) (See Project updates Southern Coromandel Loop initiative).




So they are going to add a heap more nonslip(bullshit) paint to the road ,(200mm wide side markings and 300*500 chevrons before corners) ,and this will make it safer?, god help us! these idiots are a fucking danger to us all:mad:

[Berries]

How exactly do these recommendations find their way into a presentation of the results of a research study into the effectiveness or otherwise of crash barriers ("Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers")? What is more, nowhere in the presentation is there set out any data, testing or analysis relating to the ABS or the licencing recommendations.
Quite right when you look at the PDF you posted, those recommendations are quite random and in no way linked to any of the information presented. I have seen the content of that report presented by Fergus Tate recently and he actually came across quite well. He didn't mention any of those recommendations though, probably realised they were bullshit and without any context.

What I find astounding is in the link that MrKiwi posted earlier showing what our $30 is being spent on. Things that benefit all road users and things that NZTA should be doing for all road users - and they actually do do for all road users. I went over the Lindis Pass today, big wide edge lines over the top. I went past intersections where the side roads have been sealed further to prevent gravel migration. I saw lots of new curve signage. It all benefits all road users. My how NZTA must have rubbed their hands together when they saw the big bucket of $30 notes looking for a home. Here's the link. (http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/)

I have no idea where the Coro Loop is but it sounds like it is one of those roads that riders like because it has lots of twisty bits. Riders fall off on twisty bits. Something to do with it being twisty and the laws of physics and natural selection. I'd like to think my 'donation' to the cause will do something to help all those people up there who don't know how to read a road or who like riding slightly beyond their ability. It won't.

How do I get a refund? Actually, trying to be constructive for a second, I don't personally think it matters who decides where the $30 will be spent. For the life of me I cannot think of a single thing that my $30pa could be spent on that will reduce the chance of me becoming a statistic. That is why I am anti this particular tax.

[willytheekid]

:pinch:Well!...the community has spoken aye



...allow me to sum up...for clarity!:wait:


MotoNZ HAD there chance...and they failed!...spectacularly!!

...We simply don't want any more "CEO/bussinessmen/corporate/council types" being apppointed to " direct" the current selfserving positions

...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders!

...thats twice now<_<


David...your personal efforts are not being called into question here (at least you have made an effort!...unlike most of us)
...it is the lack of action and the excessive amounts of spin & smart talking, self-serving bullshit!! coming out of MotoNZ that is.


The only group MotoNZ has served well...is themselves!



...hope that was an acceptable summary Kbers (now...await the "hand off" to the now defunct group Bronz to make these changes happen...:facepalm:...clever wee set up aint it!)

[Jeff Sichoe]

Holy shit, are you kidding me that MOTONZ subbmited these recommendations??


Recommendations
• Require that a person must have a full
driver’s licence before they can apply for a
motorcycle licence.
• "returning" riders: Re-testing at various
intervals in order to retain licence currency
(once obtained it seems they remain forever,
even if no riding has occurred for years.)
• Require ISA speed limiters for motorcycles.
• Require alcohol interlocks for motorcycles.
Recommendations
• Require ABS breaking [sic.]

??

That is fucking bullshit, seriously.

Fuck off you homos and get the fuck away from my bike.

Speed Limiters? FUCK OFF
Alchohol interlocks??? FUCK YOU CUNT
ABS Breaks? Get good you spastics and learn how to ride without relying on technology to save your retarded ass.

JESUS FUCK

[Smifffy]

I think we'd be better off to make all cage drivers get a bike licence first. A couple of years on a bike might reduce the SMIDSYs, and might alter everyone's perception of motorcyclists.

[MSTRS]

I think we'd be better off to make all cage drivers get a bike licence first. A couple of years on a bike might reduce the SMIDSYs, and might alter everyone's perception of motorcyclists.

Correct. Have said that for years.
Has the added bonus of Darwin sorting out those who should never be allowed behind the wheel...

[Smifffy]

Correct. Have said that for years.
Has the added bonus of Darwin sorting out those who should never be allowed behind the wheel...

So you are agreeing with the ACC posit that bikes are more dangerous and therefore deserve higher levies?

[Swoop]

People seem to be complaining about the 30 bucks and were exactly its going.
Just give us a $30- fuel voucher to put petrol in our tank.

Well, those who actually pay a rego. Silly people.

[swbarnett]

So you are agreeing with the ACC posit that bikes are more dangerous and therefore deserve higher levies?
This part of my sig. should explain his point:

"Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

Bikes are NOT dangerous. Some riders, yes.

[swbarnett]

ABS Breaks? Get good you spastics and learn how to ride without relying on technology to save your retarded ass.
I did a day's training with RoadSafe on the weekend. The ABS bike was repeatedly outbreaked by non-ABS ones.

[rastuscat]

My motivation from being on the Council is simple. I would rather try and influence how the $30 each year taken off me and you is spent than let officials be the sole arbitrators of that. We are making some progress on this front, but not as fast as I, or my fellow Councillors, would like. Being on the Council is not for everyone admittedly. Also, since I am on the Council, it pays to let people keep me honest so I'm not taking all of the above posts as personal criticism. Some of it is, though, a little over the top in my view.

Applied.

Yes, far easier to sit on the sidelines and bag those who make an effort.

Put your hands up citizens.

Actually don't, I'd rather be elected unopposed.

Donuts.

[Pampera]

Actually don't, I'd rather be elected unopposed.


If we pretend that motorcyclists did get a say in the makeup of MSAC, what is in your manifesto? I want to make sure my hypothetical vote goes to the right candidate.
Regards,
Michael

[rastuscat]

If we pretend that motorcyclists did get a say in the makeup of MSAC, what is in your manifesto? I want to make sure my hypothetical vote goes to the right candidate.
Regards,
Michael

My manifesto has been well bandied about in Chch over the last few years. Most know what I think.

Wanna see who has the most control over your safety? Look in the mirror. We need to do what we can to effect change in external threats, but it's the internal opportunities that beckon the most.

Bout sums it up, really.

[Paul in NZ]

My manifesto has been well bandied about in Chch over the last few years. Most know what I think.

Wanna see who has the most control over your safety? Look in the mirror. We need to do what we can to effect change in external threats, but it's the internal opportunities that beckon the most.

Bout sums it up, really.

I agree.

About 80% attitude and 20% environment...

I mean shit DOES happen but it also happens to some people a LOT more regularly than others

[bogan]

Wanna see who has the most control over your safety? Look in the mirror.

Sorry RC, the campaign winning slogan we were looking for was "Wanna see your $30 MSL? Look in your wallet."

I mean even if you can do good with the money. It doesn't change that we are still getting doubly fucked over, with higher levies, and an extra one on top of that so we pay for our own safety campaigns (which other vehicle types get out of the general fund). That is why people object to it, though being up to fuck all with the money so far of course doesn't help things. And having biker reps on the McSAC makes it more difficult to get removed as it provides the illusion of biker support.

[willytheekid]

Applied.

Yes, far easier to sit on the sidelines and bag those who make an effort.

Put your hands up citizens.

Actually don't, I'd rather be elected unopposed.

Donuts.

Please do!:niceone:

-If anyone can cut through the crap and get some action out of this group...its you! (And we would all support your inclusion, Im pritty damn sure of that!)

But you certainly can't blame the community for being angry, and venting there frustrations toward a member of said group to pass along to the rest....especialy when the "effort" from said group thus far, has resulted in no discernible action at all...for over three years!! (Well...except collecting the revenue and to secure there own funding!).

We never agreed to this Levy/Theif Ras...it was forced upon us by a minority group that thinks it knows better than the community it is mean't to "represent"

So please!, go for it:msn-wink:...I for one would feel much better knowing you had some form of input or a say in regads to these groups and the expendature of our stolen funds...at least you talk TO us Ras...and not down to us. (And Ive never seen you use Bullshit Pie Graphs....just commonsence & facts!)

So best of luck Ras :yes:..truly hope you get on the council (Just don't forget the main message mate...we want that BS levy ditched!)

[Zedder]

The old traffic-sarg't-on-the-safety-council trick...

[Berries]

Holy shit, are you kidding me that MOTONZ subbmited these recommendations??
No, they didn't. They were recommendations listed at the back of the report linked in post #48.

[Katman]

Sorry RC, the campaign winning slogan we were looking for was "Wanna see your $30 MSL? Look in your wallet."

I mean even if you can do good with the money. It doesn't change that we are still getting doubly fucked over, with higher levies, and an extra one on top of that so we pay for our own safety campaigns (which other vehicle types get out of the general fund). That is why people object to it, though being up to fuck all with the money so far of course doesn't help things. And having biker reps on the McSAC makes it more difficult to get removed as it provides the illusion of biker support.

Dude, some people die bitter.

[Katman]

Those people who so bitterly oppose the $30 levy, why don't you get involved with suggestions as to how you think the money could be better spent.

Forget the "I want it back" whining - you ain't going to get it back.

Personally, I'd like to see a sizable chunk go toward setting up Gymkhana events around the country.

[bogan]

Dude, some people die bitter.

and?

Point is, they've had a long time, got a lot of money, been given a lot of good suggestions, and done fuck all. Yet still want bikers to support them, any one of them who wants my support needs to first give a decent answer as to why so little has been done so far...

[rastuscat]

Right, new plan. First meeting I walk in wearing a balaclava and shout "Gimme my $30 back you thieving bastards".

Yeah. Real effective plan that one.

The reality is that whether we like it or not, it's happened. It's harder but more effective to actually do something than to whinge on an anonymous interweb forum.

Actual first action will be introduction of donut stops for bikers countrywide at long weekends.

I may even staff them myself.

[Ocean1]

I come back to two points. Are you doing something to change the rules so we don't need t pay the $30 bucks.

But we don't need to pay the $30 now. At least a large number aren't paying it. That's what happens when you make unreasonable demands, you end up losing more than you tried to gain.

So clearly the way to get more from this particular group is to ask for less. A reasonable cost is all that would take.

[Zedder]

Right, new plan. First meeting I walk in wearing a balaclava and shout "Gimme my $30 back you thieving bastards".

Yeah. Real effective plan that one.

The reality is that whether we like it or not, it's happened. It's harder but more effective to actually do something than to whinge on an anonymous interweb forum.

Actual first action will be introduction of donut stops for bikers countrywide at long weekends.

I may even staff them myself.

If there was coffee with the donuts that would make the whole thing very worthwhile...

But seriously, suppose there wasn't a $30 levy and given you are doing your job as a motorcycle cop in the safer journeys programme on a sergeants level, aren't you already involved in higher level of safety policy anyway.

Also, do they defer to you guys or involve you in the strategy formulation and planning process?

[rastuscat]

If there was coffee with the donuts that would make the whole thing very worthwhile...

But seriously, suppose there wasn't a $30 levy and given you are doing your job as a motorcycle cop in the safer journeys programme on a sergeants level, aren't you already involved in higher level of safety policy anyway.

Also, do they defer to you guys or involve you in the strategy formulation and planning process?

I've stuck my hat in the ring due to wanting to do more about the problem than I currently can.

Joined the job 25 years ago as I wanted to get paid to ride a motorbike. Hey, I was 22, gimme a break!! I've endured the Popo culture since, and finally weaseled myself my dream job. Ride a bike, and my boss lets me run my own little interests. I get to advocate on motorcycle safety wearing the uniform so that people listen. I attend meetings with NZTA, ACC, IAM, and a pile of other acronyms. We get to engage with riders who are more likely to want to chat to us than a car Popo.

I just see MSAC as a chance to do more about rider safety.

And yes, the rebellious nature of motorcyclists means it's a confrontational relationship at times. E.g. met a real decent bloke in a ssocial situation couple of weeks back. I pissed Mrs Cat off coz I spent an hour talking bike's to this friend of a friend. He has a Panigale. Two days later I hear via the grapevine that he regularly tops 200 up the Culverdon straights. I feel really conflicted, this 45 year old company executive high flyer taking that risk apparently frequently.

I smile and cringe when I think of him. And how he'll react if he getd caught or bins at that speed.

We own a lot of the solutions.

[MSTRS]

So you are agreeing with the ACC posit that bikes are more dangerous and therefore deserve higher levies? :facepalm::no:


This part of my sig. should explain his point:

"Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

Bikes are NOT dangerous. Some riders, yes.
:sunny::woohoo:

I agree.

About 80% attitude and 20% environment...

I mean shit DOES happen but it also happens to some people a LOT more regularly than others

Correct. Plus shit is often CAUSED BY some people. A lot.

Spending time on a bike first SHOULD weed out those that specialise in inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity

[Murray]

Personally, I'd like to see a sizable chunk go toward setting up Gymkhana events around the country.

I'd like to see funding go to educating car and truck drivers to watch out for and appreciate motorcycles!!

Oh!!! Maybe car and truck drivers should pay a levy so this education can be funded???

[Berries]

Two days later I hear via the grapevine that he regularly tops 200 up the Culverdon straights. I feel really conflicted, this 45 year old company executive high flyer taking that risk apparently frequently.

I smile and cringe when I think of him. And how he'll react if he gets caught or bins at that speed.
So what is the conflict? That here is someone who regularly breaks the speed limit yet has not crashed and died? A 45 year old must have gained a bit of life experience and learnt to do his own risk assessment. Perhaps he thinks the time and the place to give it a squirt is ok? I am sure he is well aware that if things go wrong at that speed he will have less time to react, and if he bins it it will be messy and if he gets caught he'll be in bother and could lose his job. Is this not what riding a bike is about? Why would you buy a Panigale and do 100km/h everywhere? What exactly is the point of a Hyabusa? Comfortable two up touring my arse. The elephant in the room that was mentioned earlier is not wire rope barriers, it is that some motorbikes are very very fast and attract people who get a buzz from riding them at high speed. Not everyone for sure, but a significant number. Shit happens, some of them will crash and some of them will die. Most won't. Most will get away with it and therein lies your problem with speed enforcement.

Cue someone to say a sheep could jump out or his tyre blow out.

Good luck with the application.

[Zedder]

I've stuck my hat in the ring due to wanting to do more about the problem than I currently can.

Joined the job 25 years ago as I wanted to get paid to ride a motorbike. Hey, I was 22, gimme a break!! I've endured the Popo culture since, and finally weaseled myself my dream job. Ride a bike, and my boss lets me run my own little interests. I get to advocate on motorcycle safety wearing the uniform so that people listen. I attend meetings with NZTA, ACC, IAM, and a pile of other acronyms. We get to engage with riders who are more likely to want to chat to us than a car Popo.

I just see MSAC as a chance to do more about rider safety.

And yes, the rebellious nature of motorcyclists means it's a confrontational relationship at times. E.g. met a real decent bloke in a ssocial situation couple of weeks back. I pissed Mrs Cat off coz I spent an hour talking bike's to this friend of a friend. He has a Panigale. Two days later I hear via the grapevine that he regularly tops 200 up the Culverdon straights. I feel really conflicted, this 45 year old company executive high flyer taking that risk apparently frequently.

I smile and cringe when I think of him. And how he'll react if he getd caught or bins at that speed.

We own a lot of the solutions.

I'm certainly not having a go at your career choice Rtc, truth be known, my interest in science was only part of the picture.

Anyway, the owning of the solutions concept I fully understand. Some people seems to be just bad drivers/riders and all the legislation, speeding tickets, ACC sponsored training etc doesn't appear to have the required effect for TPTB in bringing the road toll down enough for their liking at present. Only time will tell but how far do you go before it becomes too much of a control?

Ultimately though, the extra $30 shouldn't be a cost to us for something the LTSA and Police should be doing anyway.

[Katman]

I'd like to see funding go to educating car and truck drivers to watch out for and appreciate motorcycles!!

Oh!!! Maybe car and truck drivers should pay a levy so this education can be funded???

As I've always said, greater change can be effected by looking at ourselves rather than trying to change the habits of others.

[Murray]

As I've always said, greater change can be effected by looking at ourselves rather than trying to change the habits of others.

Quite right - but does that mean we have to pay a levy for it and they don't?

[Grashopper]

ACC is paying a big chunk of the fees for my bike training courses and I'm quite happy with that. These course otherwise would cost a couple of hundred bucks per person for the day and we only have to pay $30 to $50. There is courses for experienced riders, too. No one is stopping you from signing up for it and voila you get something for those 30 buck extra you pay per year and you might even still learn something.


I did a day's training with RoadSafe on the weekend. The ABS bike was repeatedly outbreaked by non-ABS ones.
In our course that only happened if the people without ABS actually knew what they were doing. They had learned and practised their ermergency braking skills. If everybody did that, and those 'little' things like human error and panic not existed, we might not need ABS. As it stands though, we do.




Personally, I'd like to see a sizable chunk go toward setting up Gymkhana events around the country.
Where do I sign up for this? :niceone:

[swbarnett]

In our course that only happened if the people without ABS actually knew what they were doing.
Of course I didn't mean everybody, mostly the trainers and a few of the students.


They had learned and practised their ermergency braking skills. If everybody did that, and those 'little' things like human error and panic not existed, we might not need ABS.
Which is, of course, the point. Those of us that are willing to invest time and money in training learn to do better without it.


As it stands though, we do.
As long as it remains an option I don't have a problem with a rider deciding for themselves that they need it.

[R650R]

I've stuck my hat in the ring due to wanting to do more about the problem than I currently can.


We own a lot of the solutions.

Yep the nut behind the wheel is usually the only one that knew what went wrong...

I commend your good intentions but this group has already been running a couple of years and what magic have they produced?
Here's whats going to happen at your meetings:
1-Member A motions an idea that might have merit
2-The idea is debated for awhile before the experts decide more info/research is needed from other experts.
3-The idea comes back as maybe being a good idea and is forwarded to govt to act on and.................
4-A new fancy safety idea emerges overseas that supercedes the original. Shred papers and go back to step one.
Democracy in action.

One thing that might work is to do away with these fancy ads they keep coming up with that we all switch off to as we know its not real.
Substitute them for Russian dashcam vids, the knarly stuff, not the weak nearmiss stuff filmed from trucks on theat tv show with the westie guy.
Those Russian vids really show what and how things go wrong in a million different ways and how fast it all happens.

[Kickaha]

Two days later I hear via the grapevine that he regularly tops 200 up the Culverdon straights. I feel really conflicted, this 45 year old company executive high flyer taking that risk apparently frequently.
The risk doing 200kmh on a straight well maintained road with good visibility isn't that high, dumb place to be doing it though if that area is still patrolled as much as it used to be

[The Reibz]

Can I have a couple of bucks back from my 30? Need to buy a loaf of bread so I can make a shit sandwich and force feed it to Gareth Morgan. Churr

[Swoop]

Actual first action will be introduction of donut stops for bikers countrywide at long weekends.

I may even staff them myself.
Add the magic ingredient of "pies" and you could be onto a winner!