Insurance payouts?

[LaggyGN]

My GN125 got knocked off the road the other day by a car. I'm fine, but the bike is currently sitting in a garage, and I'm pretty sure the repairs wont be economically feasible. I'm guessing I'm going to get it written off and a payout of some sort.

The guys insurance company has rung me, and despite him contesting it my witnesses came through and the insurance says they're going to pay for my repairs. Has anyone had any experience with this? If my bike is a 2009 GN, despite how good condition it is in I'm worried I'm only going to get $1000 or so. Does anyone know what I can expect from the insurers? The crash was low speed and I walked away, but it seems like the front end got twisted fairly badly, and with the few dozen pieces of plastic that will need replacing I'm sure it will cost more than the market value of the bike to repair. I'm sure I'll find out by the end of this week anyway, but just wanted to know if anyone has a good idea of what will happen?

Forgive the spelling error in thread title..

[Mom]

You will only get what its current market value is, regardless of how well you have cared for it, or what it is insured for. Wait for the assessor to come and look at it, he is the one that will decide whether to write it off or not. DO some homework yourself and get some valuations so you have an idea of what the insurance company might pay out.

Bummer you are looking at losing your bike, but at least you are ok. Good luck!

[LaggyGN]

I've been looking at trademe for how much they go for ($1400 seems like a fair price for a 2009 GN with 35k), but the fact that trademe doesn't show prices of expired listings means I can't really see how much they finally go for. Do you know any other way I could start getting some valuations? Should I present them as proof to the assessor? Or is there anything else I can do to stop being hit by a lowball offer? Thanks for the advice in any case.

[mossy1200]

Ring a different insurance company for a quote to insure and they will tell you the market value if you ask them.

[Gremlin]

Repair cost doesn't even have to equal bike value, it's often 50-75% of value and then it's declared a write off.

As for value, you can search for expired listings (next to search window) but not on classifieds.

I would suggest you ask a couple of Suzuki shops if they have an idea of value.

[tigertim20]

a few things to be aware of.
1. you will get fucked over. by that I mean the money you get paid is unlikely to be enough to buy another bike of the same condition etc.
2. you can contest their 'payout' I went through this, and heres how it went down.
I got T bones by some blind asian bitch. she admitted fault to me and in front of several witnesses who all saw, but told her insurance company otherwise.
I supplied statement from witnesses and fault was again admitted to.
he insurance company fucked me around for 8 weeks before calling me into their office to pick up the cheque. the nsurance guy said their assessor had gone and looked at the bike and determined it's value, and held out a cheque for me. I looked at the cheque for $500 and told the guy to get fucked, Ill be back later.
I walked down the road to a motorcycle shop and explained what was happening. they aid no problems, we can do an alternative valuation. I then went to a second bike shop and did the same. (note, usually they will charge you $50-$100 for their time, which is fair enough, you are asking for their expertise and knowledge, but I was lucky and they did it for free for me)
I took these two alternative quotes back to her insurance company. we sat at a table and the guy offered me an amount halfway between the lower of the two quotes I had got, and their original offer. we argued a little more and I asked him how much it would cot them to go to court, and he eventually just wrote out another cheque for halfway between the two alternative quotes I had brought in.

It will take time and expect to have to fight them, but for a bike of lower value, it isnt worth their time to go to court so theyll likely (eventually) just pay you a decent amount. for more expensive stuff though, it isnt that easy

[f2dz]

It really blows getting money out of insurance companies, not to mention the endless phone calls and emails. Just be ready for that I guess? As for the payout/write off of your bike, you'll just have to wait until the assessor sees it.

Good luck, and sorry to hear about your accident. Ride safe.

[LaggyGN]

Thanks for the help all. I'm hoping that since it's a relatively cheap bike, If they lowball me I only have to increase the offer a few hundred dollars to get it into the slightly satisfactory payout range. They might see that as worthwhile rather than having to deal with an annoyed customer.

If they don't payout anywhere near ($500 is very worrying..) then I might try taking the guy to the disputes tribunal for the remainder of the cash. Not sure how that will pan out, but I'll wait until the insurance company gets back to me first. So far they have been good, the guy contested it but they still onyl took a couple of days to say that I'm not at fault and will get repairs. Let's see.

[Tazz]

Thanks for the help all. I'm hoping that since it's a relatively cheap bike, If they lowball me I only have to increase the offer a few hundred dollars to get it into the slightly satisfactory payout range. They might see that as worthwhile rather than having to deal with an annoyed customer.

If they don't payout anywhere near ($500 is very worrying..) then I might try taking the guy to the disputes tribunal for the remainder of the cash. Not sure how that will pan out, but I'll wait until the insurance company gets back to me first. So far they have been good, the guy contested it but they still onyl took a couple of days to say that I'm not at fault and will get repairs. Let's see.

You'd be better off working hard on getting a proper/fair replacement value out of the insurance company if you can rather than using the joke that is the disputes tribunal.

Good luck man, hope it works out ok but at the end of the day atleast you walked away unscathed.

[Erelyes]

Never used disputes tribunal myself but I understand that it's a collossal waste of time. Go via the insurance coy. Find out how the process works, they will get a bit more fearful if you actually understand what your rights and options are, rather than just tossing around words like 'court' and 'ombudsman' without backing it up.
Good luck.

[LaggyGN]

Thanks for the advice guys. Unfortunately today I got a call and they said that they have changed their mind, since the other person is disputing it. They had already disputed it, and the decision was made against them. The fact that they are changing their mind 7 days later seems incredibly unfair to me. I had their decision, I had been put through to an assessor, but today they said I had to start contacting the claims officer again. Surely this isn't allowed?

[nzspokes]

Your insurance company or theres? If its there's you have a problem. You will have to prove the other party is at fault, probably through court.

Im going through just that at the moment but in a slightly different way.

[tigertim20]

Thanks for the advice guys. Unfortunately today I got a call and they said that they have changed their mind, since the other person is disputing it. They had already disputed it, and the decision was made against them. The fact that they are changing their mind 7 days later seems incredibly unfair to me. I had their decision, I had been put through to an assessor, but today they said I had to start contacting the claims officer again. Surely this isn't allowed?

you have witnesses right? have you contacted the police? that might be your next step.
Tell them you are prepared to take them to court, its most likely all part of their game. If they can make you feel powerless, you might just fuck off and they dont have to pay. Once you demonstrate a willingness to fight them, theyll realise its probably more hassle and expense than its worth to argue with you, and eventually come to the party.

[LaggyGN]

Your insurance company or theres? If its there's you have a problem. You will have to prove the other party is at fault, probably through court.

Im going through just that at the moment but in a slightly different way.

Their insurance company. I'm mostly surprised since they had already said the guy was at fault and they would pay my repairs. He was already disputing it from the start, so nothing has changed. I have two witnesses who are very passionate and wrote really good letters about how at fault the guy was, so court is an option. I don't know if anything in my case is relevant to yours, but if you could message me any advice or details of your story it would be really appreciated. I was calm for a few days, but now my stress levels have gone through the roof again.

[LaggyGN]

you have witnesses right? have you contacted the police? that might be your next step.
Tell them you are prepared to take them to court, its most likely all part of their game. If they can make you feel powerless, you might just fuck off and they dont have to pay. Once you demonstrate a willingness to fight them, theyll realise its probably more hassle and expense than its worth to argue with you, and eventually come to the party.

Yep, and my witnesses are really fired up and helpful, really great and supportive people. I've already left a message on his insurance company's answerphone telling them I'd like to see their policy about final decisions. I can't find the policy for his insurance company, but other insurance company's policies state that decisions are final, and any disputes need to go to the insurance ombudsman. Just reopening up a decision because the guy continues to dispute it after a final decision seems like a joke. Hopefully that at least lets them know I'm not going to let go easily.

[nzspokes]

Their insurance company. I'm mostly surprised since they had already said the guy was at fault and they would pay my repairs. He was already disputing it from the start, so nothing has changed. I have two witnesses who are very passionate and wrote really good letters about how at fault the guy was, so court is an option. I don't know if anything in my case is relevant to yours, but if you could message me any advice or details of your story it would be really appreciated. I was calm for a few days, but now my stress levels have gone through the roof again.

Mine was a guy pulled in front of me and I hit em. His fault. He is not insured but I am. Im covered but am going after him for some costs incurred from the incident. And my insurance company is going him for the bike. He says its not his fault and I should have given way to him out of consideration. Legally he is in the wrong and my insurance company agrees. At the end of it he will have a nice big bill to pay. Slowly I would guess.

Well your in for a scrap then. You weren't insured then by the sounds. I would say you need to say you are taking them to court. Not much else will help you now.

[tigertim20]

Yep, and my witnesses are really fired up and helpful, really great and supportive people. I've already left a message on his insurance company's answerphone telling them I'd like to see their policy about final decisions. I can't find the policy for his insurance company, but other insurance company's policies state that decisions are final, and any disputes need to go to the insurance ombudsman. Just reopening up a decision because the guy continues to dispute it after a final decision seems like a joke. Hopefully that at least lets them know I'm not going to let go easily.
sounds like a good next step. let us know how it progresses!

[st00ji]

you could call the citizens advice bureau for some... advice. on your next best move.

[LaggyGN]

you could call the citizens advice bureau for some... advice. on your next best move.

Just left a message on their answerphone explaining the situation, hopefully should get a call back tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion!

[R650R]

I'd get your local Suzuki dealer to provide a written letter of what they would say its market value is, you could also try the likes of motorcycle trader mag etc.
Used the first method for a stolen mountainbike and got paid out new price value, and few years back when knocked off zxr400 I got motorcycle trader mag to mail back my photo and for sale ad I had just sent in two days earlier as proof of the $6k ( was a minter) value I placed on it and got paid out that by the other person insurance on that too.
The insurance companies job is to payout the innocent party ie you. If it ends up in court or disputes tribunal the judge will respect the word of motorcycle industry professionals/shops as to value, not what the insurance would like to think its worth.

[LaggyGN]

Definitely will get on to that. The main problem is getting them to take a look at the bike. It's currently at a towing yard, which I could pay to get them to take it to a Suzuki dealer for a few hours and take it back, but will probably be quite costly. I'll ring his insurance company tomorrow to see what can be done about it. Cheers for the suggestion, might save me a bit down the line.

[Gremlin]

No, they will likely not release the bike to you, from the tow yard, as if it's written off, it's their property etc. Losing the bike means they lose their only hold, as such. Insurance will also be paying for the towing yard storage.

The shop doesn't really need the bike to do an indicative value. Are there any modifications to the bike from standard, or just a regular bike? Year, mileage, condition, that's all the shop would really need for a rough market value when it was in good nick.

[Jantar]

If the other driver's insurance company won't come to the party, then don't deal with them. Send your claim for the true value of the bike, plus incidental costs, in writing directly to the other driver. Give him 30 days to pay up or the case will go to court. It is the other driver's resposibility, not his insurance company's.

This is something that people seem to forget. An insurance policy is a contract between the insurance company and the insured party. You are not part of that contract so are not bound by their rules.

[LaggyGN]

No, they will likely not release the bike to you, from the tow yard, as if it's written off, it's their property etc. Losing the bike means they lose their only hold, as such. Insurance will also be paying for the towing yard storage.

The shop doesn't really need the bike to do an indicative value. Are there any modifications to the bike from standard, or just a regular bike? Year, mileage, condition, that's all the shop would really need for a rough market value when it was in good nick.

That's good news, I'll start ringing around Suzuki dealers to get quotes. Thanks.


If the other driver's insurance company won't come to the party, then don't deal with them. Send your claim for the true value of the bike, plus incidental costs, in writing directly to the other driver. Give him 30 days to pay up or the case will go to court. It is the other driver's resposibility, not his insurance company's.

This is something that people seem to forget. An insurance policy is a contract between the insurance company and the insured party. You are not part of that contract so are not bound by their rules.

That I assumed was the case until they confirmed that they were going to pay for my repairs. I'm no legal expert, but I feel like I now have some sort of claim via the company rather than just to the person responsible. They say they are going to contact me by the end of the day with a decision. Fingers crossed.

[Gremlin]

That I assumed was the case until they confirmed that they were going to pay for my repairs. I'm no legal expert, but I feel like I now have some sort of claim via the company rather than just to the person responsible. They say they are going to contact me by the end of the day with a decision. Fingers crossed.
You're dealing with the company, because the guy has insurance and has lodged a claim. Insurer deals with it on his behalf as that's what he wants (it's taken care of).

Of course, as Jantar says, you have no contract with this company, and can chase the other party directly... (which may be enough to make the other party give up)

[scott411]

No, they will likely not release the bike to you, from the tow yard, as if it's written off, it's their property etc. Losing the bike means they lose their only hold, as such. Insurance will also be paying for the towing yard storage.

The shop doesn't really need the bike to do an indicative value. Are there any modifications to the bike from standard, or just a regular bike? Year, mileage, condition, that's all the shop would really need for a rough market value when it was in good nick.

its not their bike until they say they are going to Write it off, and give you the money, but if you pick it up, or get it delivered to a suzuki dealer make sure you take photos before it leaves the tow yard,

[LaggyGN]

I'm thinking there's a case to be had when they said 'We're going to pay for your repairs' as being a verbal contract. It's on phone anyway. It was all confirmed, and they've gone back on it.

Having a dispute with an insurance company might involve lawyers though, which will put me out of pocket anyway, so might just take the guy to the disputes tribunal anyway. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that his insurance company does decide to pay, they say they'll contact me by the end of the day.

[neels]

I would seem to me that as you're not dealing with your insurance company, and you have no formal offer from their insurance company, that your bike is still your bike. If it was me I'd be getting it back into my posession and getting it assessed to at least know what the situation is, before taking any further action.

As far as writing the bike off goes that is normally done by your insurance company that you have a contract with, if you are claiming from a third party you have no agreement with them that they will assume ownership of the bike, really you are just claiming from someone the cost to repair the damage caused by them.

[LaggyGN]

So I rung up and apparantly they've already dropped the bike off at a suzuki dealer. They gave a repair quote which is beyond the value of the bike new. Looks like my hopes of a $300 fork alignment are out the window.

handle bars 95.5
clutch lever &perch 121
lhs mirror 101
lhs indicator lens 12
lhs headlight bracket 83.5
fuel tank 620
lhs footrest 69
front brake lever 17
rhs front indicator 128
rhs fork 393.5
fork seal and oil 46
footrest 69
lhs cover 75
headlight rim 98
speedo unit 469
2397.5

labour 570
2967.5

Some things are trivial. The tank has no dents at all, only a minor scratch, but they're saying it's a $670 job. Could easily get $40 handlebars, $20 mirrors etc.. not sure how to proceed if it goes to the disputes tribunal on this one.

I wish I could post the photos up. Would any harm be done? Not sure if it's a good idea before the whole thing has settled.

[neels]

Some things are trivial. The tank has no dents at all, only a minor scratch, but they're saying it's a $670 job. Could easily get $40 handlebars, $20 mirrors etc.. not sure how to proceed if it goes to the disputes tribunal on this one.
Generally the dealer will quote genuine parts, and if it was undamaged before the accident it will be replaced with new or second hand in the same condition.

You now have the value of the repairs, so you can ask for that amount to repair your bike to it's original condition.

Of course you could always offer to be reasonable and accept a settlement for the cost of purchasing a replacement bike of similar age and condition, and save them some money.

[LaggyGN]

Yep, although to be honest I'd be happy getting a badly scratched up bike with scuffed up chrome if it only cost $700 to repair, I wouldn't want any more. I don't mind if my mirrors are chipped, as long as they can pass a WOF.

I don't know why the guy is contesting it. I've let him know how many witnesses I have who are all really supportive of my side of the argument. If it goes to the tribunal, instead of him paying a $200 excess he'll be paying a $1500 replacement bill. I don't think this is going to end well for anyone.

[Gremlin]

Yep, although to be honest I'd be happy getting a badly scratched up bike with scuffed up chrome if it only cost $700 to repair, I wouldn't want any more. I don't mind if my mirrors are chipped, as long as they can pass a WOF.
This doesn't happen with any insurance involved. The item is repaired to previous condition, or, if uneconomic to repair, it's written off. You do have the choice at that point to ask to buy back the write off, and you can repair yourself. Insurance jobs will often use OEM parts etc.

So, at this point, the bike is already at a dealer, assessed and the values are known (the company does seem to be moving pretty quickly I would say). You can now tell them, repair or replace with suitable, or value thereof. If they want to play games, tell them you're going back to the other party and dealing with them. You can also inform him you're not getting a satisfactory response from his insurance so you're dealing with him directly.

He has x number of days to resolve (7 should suffice) or you're taking him disputes tribunal and he will bear the cost thereof. Application fees are cheap, $50 or so. Value up to $14-15k, so plenty for you. No lawyers are involved, you represent yourselves (a cheap resolution service).

[LaggyGN]

So looks like repairs are out of the question. I've been asking around Suzuki dealers, and I have it in writing from 3 of them that the value is $1400 or $1500. I'll be completely satisfied if I get that. Looks like it's going to have to be a fight to get it though...

I'll wait for that call from AA, then if they say no I'll start the disputes tribunal process right away. He's already made it abundantly clear he's going to contest it. I now have three witnesses (the passenger of the one of my 2 witnesses has joined in), and they even say they'll show up to the tribunal for me. Absolutely awesome people. I just hope it doesn't need to go to that level.

[Gremlin]

Remember the good saying, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Big companies will often chance their arm, hoping someone is naive enough to be an easy pushover. As soon as you prove it's not going to be the case, things get a little more real. However, understand that from the company's end, their customer (not you) is saying he's not at fault, so they wouldn't pay out for a customer that isn't at fault. Partly why having insurance is handy so you can let the companies play their game (to a degree).

Get a position from the company, what's holding them up and how will they move, or won't move. Appreciate that for you it's obviously a big event, but for them it's just another daily occurence. It's a game and there's a process to follow, so simply treat it as a good learning experience of how it works. You're very lucky to have excellent witnesses, so it will work out, but may take a little time (don't forget to thank them).

Also, remember to document all contact. Facts and figures will be required for Disputes and makes your case strong. Is there a police report? This would help on the insurance side (and they usually want it for a claim).

[LaggyGN]

I'm definitely going to give them everything I've got. Hopefully for such a small claim it shouldn't be a massive amount of work, especially with witnesses etc, to convince them to pay out. I actually had insurance until the beginning of this year. Having paid out (over the course of years) more than the value of my bike brand new in insurance premiums, I decided it didn't really seem that economical. I didn't realise they could be handy when dealing with other people's insurance companies. When I get my new bike, I'll certainly get a cheap 3rd party contract so at least I can use their legal team.

I'm definitely going to get the witnesses a bottle each when it's all over. Furthermore, I know what to do when I see an accident and someone is at fault. One of my witnesses was a car in front, and could easily have kept driving, but they stopped straight away and approached me with their number. Wrote some awesome statements for AA too. Thank god for people like that.

[Gremlin]

I may as well put it here, for reference.

Don't fully depend on the insurance company either. My boss had a situation, almost brand new car, working in the city one evening. Idiot jumps on his bonnet (he thought it would be funny) denting it. Initially tried to weasel out of it, but finally came up with insurance details, boss got all his details, forwarded to insurance etc. From his side, boss had completed everything required from his end. We found out several months later it was still on his record as unresolved, as the insurance company hadn't got all the money from the other party.

So as I said, let them deal with things (if you have insurance etc) as they're used to it, but also keep an eye on it.

[nzmikey]

Ask Drunkenmistake .... he knows how to get pay outs :lol::killingme

[Old Steve]

Was this accident reported to the Police, if not report it now (I don't know how many days you have after the accident).

The insurance company is acting on behalf of their customer, I think it's called abrogation, they take over the driver's rights. But that doesn't stop you claiming directly with the other driver, he then would probably pass that claim on to the insurance company. So send him a bill for the replacement value, attach the valuations and include reference to you having three statements from witnesses, and copy the insurance company. State in your letter to him that you are having problems dealing with his insurance company so are prepared to take him to the small claims court where, with 3 witnesses prepared to appear or make statements, you are convinced you will be successful.

I'd also ask the insurance company to confirm all matters in writing in future as you have found their phone agreements to be worthless. That might not help you, they could delay writing letters, but it'd make it clear what you think of them.

Best of luck.

[baffa]

You're probably not gonna read this, but if you dont want to get fucked over by other insurers, GET INSURED.

If you're in this situation, and someone hits you, their insurer will liase with yours, and have to pay you out on the terms you agreed upon with your insurer (basically you claim with your company, and they claim off the other persons company).

Dont really have any sympathy for people who complain about what insurance pays out for their bikes/cars if they dont have insurance of their own.

[baffa]

I may as well put it here, for reference.

Don't fully depend on the insurance company either. My boss had a situation, almost brand new car, working in the city one evening. Idiot jumps on his bonnet (he thought it would be funny) denting it. Initially tried to weasel out of it, but finally came up with insurance details, boss got all his details, forwarded to insurance etc. From his side, boss had completed everything required from his end. We found out several months later it was still on his record as unresolved, as the insurance company hadn't got all the money from the other party.

So as I said, let them deal with things (if you have insurance etc) as they're used to it, but also keep an eye on it.

Of course, once the insurer receives compensation, they will reinstate your bosses ncb and excess.
But the dumbass jumping on the bonnet is probably paying $20 per week, so it could take some time.

If he had somehow accidentally damaged the car, beleive it or not he could claim under the liability portion of his contents insurance to cover the damage.

[LaggyGN]

You're probably not gonna read this, but if you dont want to get fucked over by other insurers, GET INSURED.

If you're in this situation, and someone hits you, their insurer will liase with yours, and have to pay you out on the terms you agreed upon with your insurer (basically you claim with your company, and they claim off the other persons company).

Dont really have any sympathy for people who complain about what insurance pays out for their bikes/cars if they dont have insurance of their own.

Yep lesson learned. I was insured for many years, as explained, and cancelled in March this year. I never had an incident and didn't know the advantages of having an insurance company act for when you as a legal team, I only looked at the financial side of it. Even after this crash I'd still be financially better of if I never had insurance. With hindsight, that's not a good enough reason not to get it.

[nzmikey]

You're probably not gonna read this, but if you dont want to get fucked over by other insurers, GET INSURED.

If you're in this situation, and someone hits you, their insurer will liase with yours, and have to pay you out on the terms you agreed upon with your insurer (basically you claim with your company, and they claim off the other persons company).

Dont really have any sympathy for people who complain about what insurance pays out for their bikes/cars if they dont have insurance of their own.

I call bullshit on that
My missus was T boned 2 months ago and our insurance company did not give a shit and told us to contact the other party's insurance which I did .... I took it to a pb to get photos done then the other person's insurance company called me ans told me that an assessor would come over and give me a value as the repairs we going to be in excess of 75% of the market value ( car was valued at 4200 ) a week later we got paid out to our account . Phone our insurance and ended our policy got a refund for the rest of the term ( till the end of the year ) . 4 weeks and 6000 later we have a new car .


Either way good luck and have fun . Outa was a cut and dry case with no one trying to pass the blame .

[LaggyGN]

His insurance company just rang back, and said the following:

"Sorry but our customer still isn't accepting responsibility, so we have to act on our customers behalf. Therefore we can't pay your claim. Sorry".

Great.

[nzmikey]

His insurance company just rang back, and said the following:

"Sorry but our customer still isn't accepting responsibility, so we have to act on our customers behalf. Therefore we can't pay your claim. Sorry".

Great.

So call your insurance company ... or inquire about small claims

[LaggyGN]

I'm not currently insured. Looks like it might have to go to the small claims court. I'm hoping there's some way to deal with his insurance company though. I didn't think they can just say 'client says no, sorry.'

[Tazz]

Call the popo and report the accident if you haven't already, serve the papers, name and shame, get things rolling man.
Do it before the end of the day.
If you have a lawyer get some serious sounding stuff with their letterhead sent, or make up your own (but I'm not sure about any hot water that could land you in, so research that first lol).
Get it done today, give him till Monday to act. He (hopefully) will be shitting bricks all weekend and there won't be many places open he can consult for advice.
Basically now you're wanting to 'bully' him into doing the right thing and sorting it out via insurance, if not, small claims or whatever with extra claims for lost wages (due to loss of transport), emotional damage, medical expenses etc etc (if you can do that. I'm not schooled up on all that myself)

Put as big a figure on there as you can without going too overboard. You want him to realize things are going to go from bad to a whole lot worse if he doesn't just pay his excess and have insurance sort it for him.

One thing that riles me is people who can't sort out their mistakes in situations like this, especially since he is insured so just has to pay excess and (according to the fact you have witnesses) was completely in the wrong.

Have no sympathy or mercy with the wanker.

Also if you haven't already you want to be getting written statements from the witnesses (I think emails are possibly legit?)

If you have a google you'll find heaps of info on this sort of situation I'm sure.

[nzmikey]

I'm not currently insured. Looks like it might have to go to the small claims court. I'm hoping there's some way to deal with his insurance company though. I didn't think they can just say 'client says no, sorry.'



http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/disputes-tribunals/how-they-work

[Tazz]

Claim for $4,999 lol (but secretly just aim for the replacement price of your bike and any associated fees of the tribunal)

[Gremlin]

I'm not currently insured. Looks like it might have to go to the small claims court. I'm hoping there's some way to deal with his insurance company though. I didn't think they can just say 'client says no, sorry.'
You're only dealing with his insurance as they are acting on his behalf, ie, he has insurance, so he pays a premium, and they cover him (or her).

As I think someone has said, go after him for all the expenses you've incurred. This is where a track of paperwork, events, timeline etc are important, also the fact he admitted fault, then u-turned. The Disputes Tribunal adjudicator will take the facts from both sides, allow each side to speak and respond to any claims from the other side etc.

At work, we had a client who reckoned he didn't have to pay us, as he thought we owed his employer (we didn't, and also supplied both the company and employee separately with services). Refused to pay, had his chance, we filed and the Friday before the Monday date for tribunal he suddenly wanted to come to a deal. Easy, here's the cost as filed, now plus the filing fee. He started to argue then gave up and paid.

Sometimes people simply want to dodge... and sometimes they're smart enough to realise it's better for them to resolve it. Been to tribunal several times now, all company related stuff and every one has been favourable to us.

[neels]

I didn't think they can just say 'client says no, sorry.'
Unfortunately they can.

I had this with a work vehicle, woman drove into me while I was stationary and at the time said it was all her fault, her subsequent statement to her insurance company was that I drove into her. Despite pointing out that it's pretty much physically impossible to drive the rear corner of my car into the entire side of her car (I took photos at the time), she subsequently died before it was resolved and as that was the only statement they had they refused to pay.

[baffa]

As Mikey pointed out, there are other options, but by and large its tougher without insurance.

You arent fighting the other guy, you're fighting his insurance company, and he pays them money to protect him. I would suggest following it through, because if they determine hes not at fault, then you are, and they will take you to court to pay for his damage.

Mikey: Depends on the scenario, if you are unhappy with their judgement you can use your provider.

[LaggyGN]

Thanks for all the advice guys. This sure is an eye opener into the world of insurance. I suppose it's the downside to being such an bloody good rider and not having an incident for 5 years :yes:

If this was going to be the case, I would have started with the disputes tribunal right from the start. By the sounds of it it's impossible to get any money from a 3rd party insurer where their party denies. Looks like I was bashing my head against a brick wall. I launched a police complaint, and due to a grazed elbow they're going to investigate it, fortunately. Sounds like by the end of it, not only will he pay up but also get charged for dangerous driving causing injury. That's if my 3 witnesses and I, plus photos are enough evidence versus his nothing. All for the sake of a $200 excess..

[Tazz]

Good luck with it all man. Sounds like you're pretty prepared. Karma will get the fawker in the future as well no doubt.

[varminter]

If you're laying in bed and get hit by a truck, then the driver swears on a stack of bibles that it's his fault, you can bet your arse the cunt will rescind it next day. Never, never trust anyone to own up.

[R650R]

If you're laying in bed and get hit by a truck, then the driver swears on a stack of bibles that it's his fault, you can bet your arse the cunt will rescind it next day. Never, never trust anyone to own up.

Yes especially anyone in industries where they do high km's and know all the tricks of the trade.

Had a young lady go through a red light at the inside of two lane right hander trying to overtake my b-train before the entrance to her workplace. Not only did she come from behind and hit my second to last axle and toolbox but she also failed to stop at scene.
Had to chase her into her workplace, where she played the innocent bimbo card.
Anyway come into work next shift to find she's concocted a completely different story for her insurance and cops. From there about 3 months of BS and arguing ensued.
Finally it ended when the cop dealing with the case had a meltdown on the phone after I refused to give another statement. Told the cop that my story was truth and there's only one version, doesn't need to be updated like the other drivers.
Anyway the other driver worked for rental car place and new every dirty trick to obfuscate the process.
Yep get your witness statements and deal to it.

[russd7]

I'm definitely going to give them everything I've got. Hopefully for such a small claim it shouldn't be a massive amount of work, especially with witnesses etc, to convince them to pay out. I actually had insurance until the beginning of this year. Having paid out (over the course of years) more than the value of my bike brand new in insurance premiums, I decided it didn't really seem that economical. I didn't realise they could be handy when dealing with other people's insurance companies. When I get my new bike, I'll certainly get a cheap 3rd party contract so at least I can use their legal team.

I'm definitely going to get the witnesses a bottle each when it's all over. Furthermore, I know what to do when I see an accident and someone is at fault. One of my witnesses was a car in front, and could easily have kept driving, but they stopped straight away and approached me with their number. Wrote some awesome statements for AA too. Thank god for people like that.
third party insurance wont help for damage to your bike, only damage to the other persons vehicle so there for your insurance co wont help in a claim for your damage.
you will need to take the person involved to court not their insurance co, this comes from experience from an accident our daughter had and we were paying her insurance. bear in mind that if you do go to court the adjudicator could say you are partially at blame and only rule in your favour for a percentage as was the case with us where we (our insuarnce co) had to pay 60% basically because the other driver had more facts than we did. the more facts you have the better, photos speak a thousand words, cell phones are great for this.

[Vinz0r]

third party insurance wont help for damage to your bike, only damage to the other persons vehicle so there for your insurance co wont help in a claim for your damage.
you will need to take the person involved to court not their insurance co, this comes from experience from an accident our daughter had and we were paying her insurance. bear in mind that if you do go to court the adjudicator could say you are partially at blame and only rule in your favour for a percentage as was the case with us where we (our insuarnce co) had to pay 60% basically because the other driver had more facts than we did. the more facts you have the better, photos speak a thousand words, cell phones are great for this.

Lagwagon555 doesn't have insurance. The other party has insurance. Other party is at fault and but will not admit liability so Lagwagon555 is going to take him to court unless he admits fault so that the other party's insurance company can pay for Lagwagon555's bike damage.

[russd7]

Lagwagon555 doesn't have insurance. The other party has insurance. Other party is at fault and but will not admit liability so Lagwagon555 is going to take him to court unless he admits fault so that the other party's insurance company can pay for Lagwagon555's bike damage.

OP is dealing with the other partys insurance and talking about taking the insurance co to court, he will have to take the other party to court not the insurance co. was also talking about only getting third party on his new bike, was just saying that in this situ third party wont help at all unless the other party is claiming against him which it appears they are not.

[Vinz0r]

OP is dealing with the other partys insurance and talking about taking the insurance co to court, he will have to take the other party to court not the insurance co. was also talking about only getting third party on his new bike, was just saying that in this situ third party wont help at all unless the other party is claiming against him which it appears they are not.

Ah ok, I read that as you assuming that Lagwagon was the one with third party.

As you were :sweatdrop

[LaggyGN]

Ah ok, that's interesting. So even third party wouldn't help much in a case like this? Insurance just seems impossible to get anything resolved without tribunals/courts.

The fact that there's now a police investigation might help, since if he's found at fault I'm sure his insurance company will pay out. But the police might hinder, if he's going to be found guilty for some charge then the burden of proof will probably be a very high. I've got three witnesses who are very respectable citizens, so hopefully that will count for something, but who knows if that will be enough.

[kiwi cowboy]

Ah ok, that's interesting. So even third party wouldn't help much in a case like this? Insurance just seems impossible to get anything resolved without tribunals/courts.

The fact that there's now a police investigation might help, since if he's found at fault I'm sure his insurance company will pay out. But the police might hinder, if he's going to be found guilty for some charge then the burden of proof will probably be a very high. I've got three witnesses who are very respectable citizens, so hopefully that will count for something, but who knows if that will be enough.

Firstly good your ok.
Secondly good luck with the fight.
Thirdly in my opinion your an idiot for not having at least third party insurance.
Why did I say that?.
Well imagine you say to yourself "im such a good rider I haven't had an accident in so long I don't need insurance" so cancel it.
Two days later you are riding blissfully along and something distracts you and you run into a (insert a very upmarket and very expensive car).
It was your fault and now you have there insurance co chasing you for 15 grand to fix it.
Buy at least having 3rd party you are covered if this sort of thing happens.
Your car/bike could be worth fuck all and not worth insuring but you could end up with a big bill without 3rd party.
Bit of a rant I know but 3rd party should be compolsary in my opinion.

[Tazz]

Firstly good your ok.
Secondly good luck with the fight.
Thirdly in my opinion your an idiot for not having at least third party insurance.
Why did I say that?.
Well imagine you say to yourself "im such a good rider I haven't had an accident in so long I don't need insurance" so cancel it.
Two days later you are riding blissfully along and something distracts you and you run into a (insert a very upmarket and very expensive car).
It was your fault and now you have there insurance co chasing you for 15 grand to fix it.
Buy at least having 3rd party you are covered if this sort of thing happens.
Your car/bike could be worth fuck all and not worth insuring but you could end up with a big bill without 3rd party.
Bit of a rant I know but 3rd party should be compolsary in my opinion.

Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one and they all stink like...

Other than the fact your rant is completely irrelevant to the situation.....yup. That works really well overseas to where insurance companies hold people to ransom and you can pay more than your car is worth EVERY YEAR for insurance.
But that's ok, you can do things like have your car tracked by GPS 24/7 to lower your premiums, and if you go over the speed limit 3 times a month or drive in between certain hours your premiums increase or your insurance is canceled. Sounds like fun!

And then, you can pay for years and years only to have an insurance company fark you over when it comes time to pay out. Look at the Canterbury EQ. 150 years or more of insurance paid for that area, yet there is no money, the government has to chip in as well (I know that is part of the law but it is your insurers/brokers job to sort it for you which doesn't happen) and most people are paid less or well less than their insured value?

But yeah nah, you're fully safe being insured. They've only got your best interests at heart after all ;)

Rant over lol

[LaggyGN]

Firstly good your ok.
Secondly good luck with the fight.
Thirdly in my opinion your an idiot for not having at least third party insurance.
Why did I say that?.
Well imagine you say to yourself "im such a good rider I haven't had an accident in so long I don't need insurance" so cancel it.
Two days later you are riding blissfully along and something distracts you and you run into a (insert a very upmarket and very expensive car).
It was your fault and now you have there insurance co chasing you for 15 grand to fix it.
Buy at least having 3rd party you are covered if this sort of thing happens.
Your car/bike could be worth fuck all and not worth insuring but you could end up with a big bill without 3rd party.
Bit of a rant I know but 3rd party should be compolsary in my opinion.

That comment about being a good rider was a joke. I explained why I cancelled it a few pages back. I've already said I'm getting insurance again when I get a new motorcycle.

[Tazz]

That comment about being a good rider was a joke. I explained why I cancelled it a few pages back. I've already said I'm getting insurance again when I get a new motorcycle.

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. As cheap as it is 3rd party would be useless to you in this situation anyway.

[2smokes]

Find a lawyer that specialises in traffic law. You have witness statements, these are worth gold.
9 times out of 10 a strongly worded letter from a law firm telling him/her they're about to be raped finacially will have their insurance company back to the negotiating table. As far as the legal cost goes, you can sue for that too. I'd rather pay for council than let the rat bags get away with out paying up.
Shop around for you next insurance. There are some good ones out there. Wifee got t boned xmas eve by texting driver. Of course other driver inocent! Long story short. Wifee car rooted, insurance company calls to say they have rental for xmas break 'till shit sorted. 1st week Jan, insurance pays out in full market value. Had rental 'till new car arrived. Sweet deal!

[kiwi cowboy]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one and they all stink like...

Other than the fact your rant is completely irrelevant to the situation.....yup. That works really well overseas to where insurance companies hold people to ransom and you can pay more than your car is worth EVERY YEAR for insurance.
But that's ok, you can do things like have your car tracked by GPS 24/7 to lower your premiums, and if you go over the speed limit 3 times a month or drive in between certain hours your premiums increase or your insurance is canceled. Sounds like fun!

And then, you can pay for years and years only to have an insurance company fark you over when it comes time to pay out. Look at the Canterbury EQ. 150 years or more of insurance paid for that area, yet there is no money, the government has to chip in as well (I know that is part of the law but it is your insurers/brokers job to sort it for you which doesn't happen) and most people are paid less or well less than their insured value?

But yeah nah, you're fully safe being insured. They've only got your best interests at heart after all ;)

Rant over lol


like you say opinions are like arseholes:violin: and I do see a point you make about overseas to a point but in nz at the moment its cheap to 3rd party a car/bike and it covers you in case you have an accident that's your fault for the other vehicle.
maybe not the right time or place for that little rant but really was trying to get through to the op the importance of 3rd party.

[kiwi cowboy]

That comment about being a good rider was a joke. I explained why I cancelled it a few pages back. I've already said I'm getting insurance again when I get a new motorcycle.

Sorry mate I didn't mean to insult ya although it seems tazz got his knickers in a twist :killingme:devil2:.

good luck with the fight and hope ya win cos it sucks to be fucked over but life can be like that sometimes:msn-wink:

[Tazz]

like you say opinions are like arseholes:violin: and I do see a point you make about overseas to a point but in nz at the moment its cheap to 3rd party a car/bike and it covers you in case you have an accident that's your fault for the other vehicle.
maybe not the right time or place for that little rant but really was trying to get through to the op the importance of 3rd party.

haha for sure. I used to think it should be compulsory until I heard and saw how it was run in places that did have it as such.

No twisted knickers :rolleyes:, just feel sorry for the dude coming for advice getting rants about an insurance policy that if he had of had would have been no use anyway lol.

Comprehen$$$ive cover on the other hand...

[russd7]

Find a lawyer that specialises in traffic law. You have witness statements, these are worth gold.
9 times out of 10 a strongly worded letter from a law firm telling him/her they're about to be raped finacially will have their insurance company back to the negotiating table. As far as the legal cost goes, you can sue for that too. I'd rather pay for council than let the rat bags get away with out paying up.
Shop around for you next insurance. There are some good ones out there. Wifee got t boned xmas eve by texting driver. Of course other driver inocent! Long story short. Wifee car rooted, insurance company calls to say they have rental for xmas break 'till shit sorted. 1st week Jan, insurance pays out in full market value. Had rental 'till new car arrived. Sweet deal!

a case for a $1500 payout would only go to small claims and they don't accept lawyers in small claims adjudication, would be a waste of money getting a lawyer to send letter as would cost half the value and if the adjudicator rules in a percentage then you wont get your lawyers fees back.
can do just as much yourself by getting copies of you witness statements and draw a map of the scene and what happened and send in to the dickheads insurance co and suggest if it doen't get sorted you will lodge a claim in small claims.
Keep all original statements yourself and only send copies, remember once someone else has them you no longer have control over what happens to them and if they get lost

[quickbuck]

When I get my new bike, I'll certainly get a cheap 3rd party contract so at least I can use their legal team.



I'm not going to read through the next 2 pages to see if somebody has mentioned this BUT:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP 3RD PARTY INSURANCE FOR MOTORCYCLES ANYMORE.

Back 22 years ago you could get 3rd party on a Motorcycle for $13.05 per year through State....
I never made a claim on this but have no idea how good it was...

Fast forward to 2013 I thought it best that my CBR600 had at least something so inquired about 3rd party....
Not economic enough to pursue full cover is only $220 per year. It was quoted at $180 for third party.....

Ring Kiwibike insurance and they will find a deal that suits your needs next time.

[Tazz]

I'm not going to read through the next 2 pages to see if somebody has mentioned this BUT:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP 3RD PARTY INSURANCE FOR MOTORCYCLES ANYMORE.

Back 22 years ago you could get 3rd party on a Motorcycle for $13.05 per year through State....
I never made a claim on this but have no idea how good it was...

Fast forward to 2013 I thought it best that my CBR600 had at least something so inquired about 3rd party....
Not economic enough to pursue full cover is only $220 per year. It was quoted at $180 for third party.....

Ring Kiwibike insurance and they will find a deal that suits your needs next time.

I just paid $29.26 for a years 3rd party fire and theft on a 250, and this dudes bike was smaller... Comprehensive is less than 3rd party on my car....this is with AMI.

[quickbuck]

I just paid $29.26 for a years 3rd party fire and theft on a 250, and this dudes bike was smaller... Comprehensive is less than 3rd party on my car....this is with AMI.

Hmmm, stand corrected, but the good people at Kiwibike couldn't find/ or didn't want to advise on that one.....
Still at $220 per year for my 600 it's pretty cheap. That covers anybody on a Full Licence too....
Of course it isn't a high value bike by todays standards.

[Sharft 6]

wow that's cheap

I bought 1 year of 3rd party from kiwibike for $236 in 2011. That was with a learners license and a slow 250.

Maybe I should look into getting insurance again.

[quickbuck]

wow that's cheap

I bought 1 year of 3rd party from kiwibike for $236 in 2011. That was with a learners license and a slow 250.

Maybe I should look into getting insurance again.

Yup, go full cover though... it won't be too much more than that... Especially if you have your full now??

[baffa]

And then, you can pay for years and years only to have an insurance company fark you over when it comes time to pay out. Look at the Canterbury EQ. 150 years or more of insurance paid for that area, yet there is no money, the government has to chip in as well (I know that is part of the law but it is your insurers/brokers job to sort it for you which doesn't happen) and most people are paid less or well less than their insured value?

But yeah nah, you're fully safe being insured. They've only got your best interests at heart after all ;)

Rant over lol

CHCH is a little more complicated. Because of the Govt's EQC system effectively going bankrupt, work has been held up badly. And certain insurance companies *cough cough* AMI and Asnvar, didnt have enough reinsurance, so they either went bankrupt, or needed Govt bailouts, whilst the insurance companies who looked after their customers, got dragged through the media because people didnt understand how insurance works.

Compared to the rest of the world, Kiwis tend to avoid insurance wherever possible, and are ridiculously underinformed about how things work.

The amount of businesses I speak to who dont even know how to run their business, let alone what insurance they should have is depressing.

[nzspokes]

Went to court with my one today. I won. Hes now got a fucking huge bill to pay at $20 a week. Thankfully its been ordered that it has to be paid by Winz out of his Dole. So it will come through.

[nzmikey]

Went to court with my one today. I won. Hes now got a fucking huge bill to pay at $20 a week. Thankfully its been ordered that it has to be paid by Winz out of his Dole. So it will come through.

Yeah the suck thing about that .... We are paying for it .... Not him as such .... Bitter sweet I spose . But a win none the less

[nzspokes]

Yeah the suck thing about that .... We are paying for it .... Not him as such .... Bitter sweet I spose . But a win none the less

I dont disagree with that. This guy has been in the country 9 years and has worked for 1 of them. :facepalm:

Im thinking of it as my tax money back.

[nzmikey]

I dont disagree with that. This guy has been in the country 9 years and has worked for 1 of them. :facepalm:

Im thinking of it as my tax money back.

Jebus Christ you fucking kidding me ! Send him home or at the minimum cut the beni to $0 ffs

I am not working and struggling to pay for medical bills for my family or keep them feed and housed for some cunt who has worked 1 out of 9 years to sit on the beni and do sweet fuck all

/rant

[nzspokes]

Jebus Christ you fucking kidding me ! Send him home or at the minimum cut the beni to $0 ffs

I am not working and struggling to pay for medical bills for my family or keep them feed and housed for some cunt who has worked 1 out of 9 years to sit on the beni and do sweet fuck all

/rant

Again, dont disagree.

His wife is on a sickness beni as well.......:facepalm:

He was worth letting in.<_<

[LaggyGN]

Went to court with my one today. I won. Hes now got a fucking huge bill to pay at $20 a week. Thankfully its been ordered that it has to be paid by Winz out of his Dole. So it will come through.

Glad to hear, quite encouraging. I hope it doesn't have to go as far as courts, but I may as well if the tribunal doesn't sort it out properly.

The court official when I filed my papers said 'you look pretty safe on this one'. I handed her a bulk of photos, with 3 witness statements with diagrams, a police report and 3 market value quotations. He'll only be able to show up with his own account and diagram. Quite encouraging. Just have to wait now.

[Gremlin]

Glad to hear, quite encouraging. I hope it doesn't have to go as far as courts, but I may as well if the tribunal doesn't sort it out properly.
Best you actually read up. The tribunal finding is final and binding. There are grounds to appeal the finding, but the whole purpose of the tribunal is to keep this crap out of the courts (let them focus on the serious stuff). One side being a retard etc isn't the stuff courts should have to deal with.

We had a previous landlord try to appeal a ruling basically on the grounds of "I didn't like the adjudicator and their decision". Thankfully, the appeal got thrown out. You need to have new evidence or substantial faults in the original decision etc.

However, the next step after the tribunal finding is actually getting the money (like the ex landlord said - You're not getting a cent), and this can be a whole lot harder, you may have additional hearings, may need bailiffs seizing property, or being drip fed the money.

[Old Steve]

However, the next step after the tribunal finding is actually getting the money (like the ex landlord said - You're not getting a cent), and this can be a whole lot harder, you may have additional hearings, may need bailiffs seizing property, or being drip fed the money.

However, as the other driver has insurance, won't the Insurance company then have to pay?

[Tazz]

However, as the other driver has insurance, won't the Insurance company then have to pay?

Interesting point. Since he has denied liability/fault maybe there is something in the contract that washes their hands of it? Any excuse not to pay.

Otherwise it will be up to him to get them to pay as he is being taken to the tribunal, not the insurance company, from the way I understand it anyway.

[LaggyGN]

Best you actually read up. The tribunal finding is final and binding. There are grounds to appeal the finding, but the whole purpose of the tribunal is to keep this crap out of the courts (let them focus on the serious stuff). One side being a retard etc isn't the stuff courts should have to deal with.

We had a previous landlord try to appeal a ruling basically on the grounds of "I didn't like the adjudicator and their decision". Thankfully, the appeal got thrown out. You need to have new evidence or substantial faults in the original decision etc.

However, the next step after the tribunal finding is actually getting the money (like the ex landlord said - You're not getting a cent), and this can be a whole lot harder, you may have additional hearings, may need bailiffs seizing property, or being drip fed the money.

If the tribunal doesn't work then I shall appeal it. I know I'll have to prove why I think it was unfair. If he does his homework and finds a clause in some bill where it's legal to knock people off bikes as long as it's a sunny day, you're wearing a pink shirt, singing the national anthem and there are 3 seagulls visible in your rear view mirror, then I'll take my hat off to him. But from what people here have said sometimes the rulings can go against you if they don't like your shirt, in which case it may be a trivial case but I'll still try to appeal.

I've been looking at all the options for what could happen, but my guess is that he will pay. He had a recent model car, so doesn't look like a dole bludger. Hopefully the possibility of losing it would be enough to deter him from screwing around a court decision.

[Gremlin]

However, as the other driver has insurance, won't the Insurance company then have to pay?
No, the incident is between you and the other party. Insurance only steps in for their client should they wish it, to resolve their claim on their behalf. Should it be through tribunal, the insurance company is not a party to the claim (as they were not involved in the original incident). Your claim is entirely against the other party (named in claim) and if they lose, then they pay the decided costs.

Equally, you can handle an incident between yourself and the other party and not involve your insurance if you so wish. I actually did this once, was the at fault party, dealt with other party's insurance without involving mine. This actually worked out, as the other company didn't have their shit together, gave me different figures, didn't have the proof to backup claims I didn't think reasonable etc. Eventually (a year later) we settled, but they tried threats first. In a normal case in NZ the two companies actually have accounts between each other and cover their own client so things are a lot more automatic (or at least that's my limited understanding). Obviously you still need to inform insurance of the incident, as it's part of your history.

[Tazz]

He was wearing a pink shirt? You never should have trusted him. =P

[Gremlin]

If the tribunal doesn't work then I shall appeal it. I know I'll have to prove why I think it was unfair.
Probably semantics, but no, if you think it was unfair, there are no grounds for appeal. This is probably a good summation of grounds for appeal: http://www.communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-12-disputes-tribunal/challenging-a-disputes-tribunal-decision/

I've found JP's to be terrible at making impartial decisions, often rubber stamping whatever the police say. Judges in my experience are excellent, bollocking whomever they please and everyone has to say "Yes your honour" including police, both sets of lawyers etc. The referees are usually very good, keep control of hearing and give each person their time. It does get a little tricky if the matter is more technical or a subject they have limited understanding of.

[LaggyGN]

Probably semantics, but no, if you think it was unfair, there are no grounds for appeal. This is probably a good summation of grounds for appeal: http://www.communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-12-disputes-tribunal/challenging-a-disputes-tribunal-decision/

I've found JP's to be terrible at making impartial decisions, often rubber stamping whatever the police say. Judges in my experience are excellent, bollocking whomever they please and everyone has to say "Yes your honour" including police, both sets of lawyers etc. The referees are usually very good, keep control of hearing and give each person their time. It does get a little tricky if the matter is more technical or a subject they have limited understanding of.

That's a very useful site, has a lot more information than the official tribunal one I was on. Thanks for that.

[5150]

Since we are talking about insurance. I just had a claim in on a stolen helmet. Yes, I was a dumb arse for leaving my Arai RX7 on my bike mirror while i went into the little boys room. :facepalm:
The lid was 4 years old, but only ever used 4-5 times since I got it as a present. (used my shit lid most of the time and only got it out because of the new bike). Now, back when I got it, it retailed for $1599, even now they are still that much. Ok, so I wasn't naive enough to think I'd get a brand new Arai GP from my insurance company, but at the same time it never accured to me in my wildest dreams that the payment I will get is $320 less my access of $250 for a $1599 lid that I only ever wore hand full of times and was totally spotless. I can'teven buy a new shit chinese helmet for that let alone entry level or even second hand Arai. What fuckin gives with insurance these days. What do i pay my premiums for??? Thieving scumbags. :(

[Tazz]

Since we are talking about insurance. -snip- (

What company? It can be all about how you approach it, and if you let them away with shafting you, you will be shafted.

Without causing a stink I had my entire laptop replaced when I cracked the screen with a laptop that was 2 models up from the one I had (because my model was no longer available). I was pretty stoked.

Laptop was $2100 new and about 2 years old.

Excess was $250.

Company was State.

[5150]

What company? It can be all about how you approach it, and if you let them away with shafting you, you will be shafted.

Without causing a stink I had my entire laptop replaced when I cracked the screen with a laptop that was 2 models up from the one I had (because my model was no longer available). I was pretty stoked.

Laptop was $2100 new and about 2 years old.

Excess was $250.

Company was State.

Company is State, and I declined the payment offer, but instead asked for a replacement helmet to similar quality as my old Arai. I have also reminded them of my renewal date which is comming up at the end of this month and suggested that I will get different quotes from different companies. (Been with State for last 20 years and have all my vehicles, house and contents with them). They told me that there was not doable, but in the end agreed to a helmet at 50% of the value of my old one. So At least I get a $800 helmet out of it.

[Tazz]

Sweet! That is better than nothing. Check the wording in your policy though just in case there is some wording in there like 'replacement of the same item or a similar item of the same value' and all that jazz. I don't think it is as common now, usually a percentage or something, but it's been a while since I've had a good read through mine (although I'm due for some reading as I discovered my vehicle value dropped from and agreed value of 9k to a 'market value' of 3.2k in two years last week which I'm pretty pissed I let happen/they slipped in).

[5150]

Sweet! That is better than nothing. Check the wording in your policy though just in case there is some wording in there like 'replacement of the same item or a similar item of the same value' and all that jazz. I don't think it is as common now, usually a percentage or something, but it's been a while since I've had a good read through mine (although I'm due for some reading as I discovered my vehicle value dropped from and agreed value of 9k to a 'market value' of 3.2k in two years last week which I'm pretty pissed I let happen/they slipped in).

Was told by them and the shop that helmets life expectancy is 5 years and they use 20% per year as depreciation formula. So my helmet has depreciated 80% of its toital purchase value. But because I told them that the helmet was only used handfull of times (had photos) they agreed to 50% value replacement

[imdying]

But from what people here have said sometimes the rulings can go against you if they don't like your shirt, in which case it may be a trivial case but I'll still try to appeal.You will be pleased to know that that is complete and utter rubbish.

[nzspokes]

You will be pleased to know that that is complete and utter rubbish.

Agreed. One I went to was very fair in what you can say and prove. I would happily use the process again.

[LaggyGN]

Here's hoping. It turns out he's launched a claim at the tribunal too. I have no idea what evidence he's got aside from being able to take a photo of his car. But now I've got a thousand 'if..'s on my mind. I keep saying with 3 witnesses and all the circumstantial evidence I should have enough. I just hope the tribunal is decisive, and doesn't say 'meh, they both lodged claims.. 50/50 liability' or something. Or he somehow convinces them to swing to his side. This is all a lot more stress than $1500 is worth..

[imdying]

All they do is deal with this sort of thing all day every day, they can spot a liar and/or a retard pretty easily, if you're straight up you'll be fine.

[Mike.Gayner]

You'll find the adjudicator is quite pragmatic. I've been through the process in the past with a car. The accident was 100% the other driver's fault, but anyone is able to file a dispute, so off to the tribunal we went. The adjudicator will listen carefully to each side, and apply the law correctly based on the most probable story.

The adjudicator doesn't care that he changed his mind on whether he's liable, they don't care about the fact you both filed a claim, they don't care about any of that nonsense. They're smart, level-headed and deal with these disputes quickly and without fuss. Decisions are full and final.

Obviously in my case the other driver was found liable and I was covered. It's a pain in the ass, but the hearing itself is really straight forward.

[Tazz]

Was told by them and the shop that helmets life expectancy is 5 years and they use 20% per year as depreciation formula. So my helmet has depreciated 80% of its toital purchase value. But because I told them that the helmet was only used handfull of times (had photos) they agreed to 50% value replacement

Hmm, interesting. Should have known there was some sort of catch in there. Cheers for posting that up.

Nice picture btw man. That and the Powerslave Eddie are my favourites =D

[LaggyGN]

I got the summons in November for a date in mid-December, but told them I was going to be away for work during December through March (with the exception of 2 week holiday back in Auckland). They said that was no problem, and I got an email saying they've rescheduled the hearing for March 7th, and sent me a scan of the new summons.

Just got back to Auckland today. There is a letter confirming that the hearing is scheduled for March 7th. But there's also one telling me I didn't attend the one on the 10th of December, and I was therefore found at fault.

I just don't even...

[Fern]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one and they all stink like...

Other than the fact your rant is completely irrelevant to the situation.....yup. That works really well overseas to where insurance companies hold people to ransom and you can pay more than your car is worth EVERY YEAR for insurance.
But that's ok, you can do things like have your car tracked by GPS 24/7 to lower your premiums, and if you go over the speed limit 3 times a month or drive in between certain hours your premiums increase or your insurance is canceled. Sounds like fun!

And then, you can pay for years and years only to have an insurance company fark you over when it comes time to pay out. Look at the Canterbury EQ. 150 years or more of insurance paid for that area, yet there is no money, the government has to chip in as well (I know that is part of the law but it is your insurers/brokers job to sort it for you which doesn't happen) and most people are paid less or well less than their insured value?

But yeah nah, you're fully safe being insured. They've only got your best interests at heart after all ;)

Rant over lol

nah, my UK insurance (where 3rd party is compulsory) cost same as here. Go figure.

[Tazz]

nah, my UK insurance (where 3rd party is compulsory) cost same as here. Go figure.

Hmm. Are you over 25?

[Thaeos]

I got the summons in November for a date in mid-December, but told them I was going to be away for work during December through March (with the exception of 2 week holiday back in Auckland). They said that was no problem, and I got an email saying they've rescheduled the hearing for March 7th, and sent me a scan of the new summons.

Just got back to Auckland today. There is a letter confirming that the hearing is scheduled for March 7th. But there's also one telling me I didn't attend the one on the 10th of December, and I was therefore found at fault.

I just don't even...

Wut. Hope you can get that cleared up. Human error somewhere in the bureaucracy. Which is dated most recent?

[Jantar]

I once had something similar. Notice that I had been fined and in the same mail was a notice that my intention to defend (a speeding ticket) had been received and a court date would be given. I simply took both into the registrar at my local court and it all went away.

[RDJ]

a few things to be aware of.

1. you will get fucked over. by that I mean the money you get paid is unlikely to be enough to buy another bike of the same condition etc.

Yes, this exactly. The blind driver's insurance company know how to win and they do, every time. All we can ever do is make them pay a little more for the victory. There is no such thing as replacement value outside of an insurance brochure.

[LaggyGN]

I once had something similar. Notice that I had been fined and in the same mail was a notice that my intention to defend (a speeding ticket) had been received and a court date would be given. I simply took both into the registrar at my local court and it all went away.

Yep, that's what I'm hoping will happen, but the fact that a ruling has already been made might mean it's not so easy to reverse. I'm hoping it is though.

In good news the police spoke to all the witnesses and got back to me. They fined the fucker as well as giving me a nice file of what they found happened, so when I finally get a hearing that should be helpful.

[Tazz]

Yep, that's what I'm hoping will happen, but the fact that a ruling has already been made might mean it's not so easy to reverse. I'm hoping it is though.

In good news the police spoke to all the witnesses and got back to me. They fined the fucker as well as giving me a nice file of what they found happened, so when I finally get a hearing that should be helpful.

That's awesome bro. They can hardly argue with that (although I'm sure they'll try). Best of luck!