Bottled gas and instantaneous water heaters?

[BMWST?]

any one run this combo?
old hot water heater is leaking ,and is installed as far away as possible form where we need it.It literally takes a minute for the shower to run hot.To put a new cylinder in a space close to where we need the water is causing space issues.We arent on a gas reticulated street,and can not get gas reticulated(i have tried).We both work so it seems silly to have 180 litres of hot water sitting there being heated for when we need it .So am interested in a gas instataneous system.The cost of the appliances we may need are immaterial as we are doing up the kitchen at the same time so new appliances are being bought any way as is the new hot water system.
I would like to know your usage please.We are in welly so if there are welly users that would be even more topical

[Asher]

We got it installed a few months ago. It's worth it for the increase in shower pressure alone.
I like in a 1 bathroom house with 2 others and cook with gas and we would be lucky to go through 1 bottle a month,.

[JimO]

just had gas installed as we were doing up the upstairs bathroom and the plumber advised that the tapware and mixer we wanted was going to be crap using the existing unequal pressure, with the gas its a bit slow to get the hot water up to the bathroom but if you turn the shower on by the time you have your clothes off the water is hot, there are 3 of us here with 2 bathrooms and a gas hob still on first bottle of gas and its been 6 weeks, as Asher says the pressure is great

[Moi]

Not quite what you're thinking of... we've had instantaneous gas hot water for over 25 years run off - this is not the same as you - mains natural gas. Although our system is old it is very good and is situated with the longest run to the bathroom vanity of about 2 metres. You do need to be aware that there is always a lag between turning on a tap and the hot water coming through - it is a very dynamic system.

If you do go that way do consider gas for the hobs at least...

Final thought... if you know anyone with a gas instantaneous system who you can visit, do so to see how it works.

[Flip]

Your options are limited without retic gas available.

I have had a rinni for 15 years and it has never missed a beat. LPG is ok but with a high load device like a clorofont the bottles boil off the propane which has a BP of -25 and leaves the butane behind which has a BP of -1.

Do you have a place that the LPG delivery driver can get to easily?

[mossy1200]

You can get 30amp instant electric shower units.
Would need a 4mm or 6mm cable to the unit so would depend on cost of install etc and mains into house size can be an issue in some older houses also.

[BMWST?]

Your options are limited without retic gas available.

I have had a rinni for 15 years and it has never missed a beat. LPG is ok but with a high load device like a clorofont the bottles boil off the propane which has a BP of -25 and leaves the butane behind which has a BP of -1.

Do you have a place that the LPG delivery driver can get to easily?

well it would be about 25-30 metres slightly up hill to where the truck stops to where the bottles could be,up 5 steps, last part of that walk is a bit steep

[BMWST?]

You can get 30amp instant electric shower units.
Would need a 4mm or 6mm cable to the unit so would depend on cost of install etc and mains into house size can be an issue in some older houses also.
have thought about that,house is old(1956)

[Tazz]

Depending how much hot water you use (can be $$$ if it is lots) there are electric instant hot water options too.

Also check with anyone local who has it what the delivery guy is like. We had to wait a week to be able to cook at one stage with one company I used.

Edit: ahh, to slow, electric has been mentioned. Going by the age of your house I would just stick to the hot water and cooking for gas, we had gas heating in one that age and it was not efficient in the slightest compared to a decent heat pump or wood burner.

[BMWST?]

Depending how much hot water you use (can be $$$ if it is lots) there are electric instant hot water options too.

Also check with anyone local who has it what the delivery guy is like. We had to wait a week to be able to cook at one stage with one company I used.

installs here are twin 45 kg bottles,you ring them when one bottle is emptied,or if suitable they just turn up now and then to refill from a tanker.I dont know if thats just a set timed thing or they have some smart way of doing it

[Tazz]

ahh nice, was 10 years since I had the big bottles so good things have progressed = D

[Asher]

We use quite a small company to replace the bottles, they only come past our suburb every tuesday so if you run out on a wednesday you are screwed for the rest of the week, although you can hook up a bbq bottle to get you through it.

[BMWST?]

We use quite a small company to replace the bottles, they only come past our suburb every tuesday so if you run out on a wednesday you are screwed for the rest of the week, although you can hook up a bbq bottle to get you through it.

you have TWO 45 kg bottles,you ring when the first one runs out,you would have weeks of supply in one 45 kg bottle

[caspernz]

any one run this combo?
old hot water heater is leaking ,and is installed as far away as possible form where we need it.It literally takes a minute for the shower to run hot.To put a new cylinder in a space close to where we need the water is causing space issues.We arent on a gas reticulated street,and can not get gas reticulated(i have tried).We both work so it seems silly to have 180 litres of hot water sitting there being heated for when we need it .So am interested in a gas instataneous system.The cost of the appliances we may need are immaterial as we are doing up the kitchen at the same time so new appliances are being bought any way as is the new hot water system.
I would like to know your usage please.We are in welly so if there are welly users that would be even more topical

Yup, my folks have this gas califont thingee you talk of. Twin 45 kg LPG bottles in a cabinet outdoors and all.
Only odd thing is you gotta turn the hot tap on in the shower before you get undressed, as it takes about 30 seconds or so before you've got hot water.
And yeah, first bottle goes empty, place a call and the empty one gets swapped. So what if it takes a few days?
I'd say go the gas way, price of electricity seems to just go up and up anyway... :brick:

[mossy1200]

have thought about that,house is old(1956)

If you want to get a price for electrical and mains checked let me know.
1956 with no gas feed into house means its likely your house mains is ok for power shower unit.

[Flip]

Its hard to meaningfully compare a 5-6 kw electric water heater with a 20-30kw gas fired unit.

Dad installed an electric one in his crib, it was crap. I can piss faster than that thing made hot water. However he didn't want to pay the bottle rental.

If you do run out of gas just nick the BBQ bottle, it wont last long but it will keep the clorofont working, until the bottle freezes that is.

[caseye]

Twin bottle gas "califont/rinai on the wall external water heater is the only way to go.
Where have you guys all been for the past 50 years.
These systems far and away outstrip any electric system available, no question.
Get it done, your system pressure increases, your total gas/power bill goes down and you never have a cold shower.
The bottle option these days has a phone/internet line that alerts your gas supplier when the first bottle is empty and this triggers a delivery to your address.
We have had gas cooking and hot water for the past ten years, mains supply in our case but hell, wouldn't be without it.
Electric? go fuck yourself! too dear and no guarantee of supply, bottled, you have at least 3 months worth of hot water and cooking no matter what.

[BMWST?]

Yup, my folks have this gas califont thingee you talk of. Twin 45 kg LPG bottles in a cabinet outdoors and all.
Only odd thing is you gotta turn the hot tap on in the shower before you get undressed, as it takes about 30 seconds or so before you've got hot water.
And yeah, first bottle goes empty, place a call and the empty one gets swapped. So what if it takes a few days?
I'd say go the gas way, price of electricity seems to just go up and up anyway... :brick:


the califont(had forgotten that word) must be a ways form the shower?

[BMWST?]

Twin bottle gas "califont/rinai on the wall external water heater is the only way to go.
Where have you guys all been for the past 50 years.
These systems far and away outstrip any electric system available, no question.
Get it done, your system pressure increases, your total gas/power bill goes down and you never have a cold shower.
The bottle option these days has a phone/internet line that alerts your gas supplier when the first bottle is empty and this triggers a delivery to your address.
We have had gas cooking and hot water for the past ten years, mains supply in our case but hell, wouldn't be without it.
Electric? go fuck yourself! too dear and no guarantee of supply, bottled, you have at least 3 months worth of hot water and cooking no matter what.


i want to get away from total reliance on electricity,i know there will be an extra set of chages,but i am trying to figure out where it will balance out.

[BMWST?]

Its hard to meaningfully compare a 5-6 kw electric water heater with a 20-30kw gas fired unit.

Dad installed an electric one in his crib, it was crap. I can piss faster than that thing made hot water. However he didn't want to pay the bottle rental.

If you do run out of gas just nick the BBQ bottle, it wont last long but it will keep the clorofont working, until the bottle freezes that is.

agreed its not apples with apples.But why have 180 litrres of hot water sitting there for 23 hours in the day for the hour that you actually want it.Instat is surely much better.The loss of efficiency of the gas must more than make up for the losses in having 180 litres hot all day.Plus as i said we are struggling to find the space around the kitchen/bathroom /ldy now

[Ulsterkiwi]

forget the electric showers, they are very common back in the UK, they go through a ton of power and arent a patch on the Rinnai or similar set up.
we had a rinnai with gas bottles in the last place we lived so when we moved up the coast one of the first things we did to the house was rip out the water heater and install the gas system.
yes there is a bit of a lag but you only heat the water you need, gas cooking is more efficient as well, there is a reason pro chefs use gas!

what you do need is a gas fitter and plumber who can work together, otherwise the install can become a pain.

[Flip]

agreed its not apples with apples.But why have 180 litrres of hot water sitting there for 23 hours in the day for the hour that you actually want it.Instat is surely much better.The loss of efficiency of the gas must more than make up for the losses in having 180 litres hot all day.Plus as i said we are struggling to find the space around the kitchen/bathroom /ldy now

The real issue is the thermal storage is at the night/water heating rate. The instant electric is at the peak rate. Sure the storage has some losses but its heated at night when the power is cheapest.

[BMWST?]

The real issue is the thermal storage is at the night/water heating rate. The instant electric is at the peak rate. Sure the storage has some losses but its heated at night when the power is cheapest.

ok this is the sort of stuff i need to look at for comparison

[caspernz]

the califont(had forgotten that word) must be a ways form the shower?

Yeah there's that...and me normally forgetting to start with just the hot tap to get the califont to kick into life :whistle:

[SPman]

We have twin 45Kg cylinders and a Bosch HW unit. Tank water so rely on water pump. In winter have to turn the heat up because the water storage and feed lines get a bit chilly - on summer settings you're standing under the shower with the hot water on full and it's luke warm,.....Personally - I'd prefer solar with a gas booster.
Gas for cooking as well and 1 cyl lasts us about 3 months