Panic braking or chain lock up?

[onearmedbandit]

Take a couple minutes to watch this, especially at the 1:00 mark onwards where it's shown in slo-mo.

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Now we'll ignore his riding in general, and how supposedly his bike had duct tape on it (I'm hoping only on the fairings...), ok and the fact his chain is as loose as a $2 whore. What I want to know is what you worldly experienced motorcycle riders here on KB think, was this, as the rider claimed a result of the chain locking the rear wheel, or as I suspect him hitting the rear brake and locking the rear. I don't see the chain go tight at the point of lock-up, and the rear wheel turns again as the bike goes over.

To me it looks clear, but the comments on YT seem to suggest a lot disagree with my opinion. So what's yours? Am I wrong?

[tigertim20]

looks like brakes to me.

[mossy1200]

Chain would have needed catch the sprocket to lock it up. He had his hand up because the chain was off but it had travelled forward on the swinger. I think he braked it into a slide.

[R650R]

Gee I don't know why I wasted five minutes of my life analysing that but...

Observing from the grassy knoll you can see his chain is hanging back and to the left, Back and to the Left... and after the crash it is still in the same position.
Just before he locks it up you see his right foot move down and the brake light come on...
Have watched a heap of this fellas vids before and they are usually all too much brake or early throttle crashes.
Probably claiming it the chain for insurance purposes.

[Rhys]

If you watch 1.10 - 1.12 you can see the chain come of the rear sprocket

[onearmedbandit]

Gee I don't know why I wasted five minutes of my life analysing that but...

Observing from the grassy knoll you can see his chain is hanging back and to the left, Back and to the Left... and after the crash it is still in the same position.
Just before he locks it up you see his right foot move down and the brake light come on...
Have watched a heap of this fellas vids before and they are usually all too much brake or early throttle crashes.
Probably claiming it the chain for insurance purposes.


Exackerly. I watched this video initially on bikerpunks but went to the YT clip to see if there was more about it there. And there was, riders of '30yrs' riding experience ranting about how it was obviously the chain causing the crash, and how anyone thinking it was the rear brake is slightly slower in the old brain department.

[kiwi cowboy]

Gee I don't know why I wasted five minutes of my life analysing that but...

Observing from the grassy knoll you can see his chain is hanging back and to the left, Back and to the Left... and after the crash it is still in the same position.
Just before he locks it up you see his right foot move down and the brake light come on...
Have watched a heap of this fellas vids before and they are usually all too much brake or early throttle crashes.
Probably claiming it the chain for insurance purposes.

What he said^^^^^:niceone:

[AllanB]

Chain clearly comes off then brake light goes on, presuming the clutch is in the chain will not be spinning. It appears to have dropped off cleanly on the outside of the sprocket so is not in a position to foul anything - indeed the bike is progressing well before he brakes.

Reckon he cooked it on the brakes or the result of hard rear braking flicked the chain into a position where it jammed the rear.

[Bikemad]

watched it a few times........hard to tell..............the brake light ,front brake,comes on before he moves his right foot but he also seems to run over a road marker just before the slide............maybe the bounce made his foot bounce on the rear brake pedal but i doubt the chain had anything to do with it

[Robbo]

If you look at 0:24 to 0:26 you can see the chain hanging down and then suddenly tighten up. I couldn't see clearly what his right foot was doing but if he had hit the rear brake hard the result would have been the same. I have seen a broken chain cause the rear wheel to lock up and the rider go down so in my opinion it could have been either. :niceone:

[Berries]

See, that's what you get for waving.

[Old Steve]

See, that's what you get for waving.

He would've been Ok if he'd known the KB wave!

[Hoon]

Hmm I don't know. To lock up the rear brake like that in a non-panic situation you'd need to stomp pretty deliberately.
There is also the possibility of the chain locking up by getting tangled up in the sprocket nuts or swing arm and this wouldn't necessarily cause the rest of the loose chain to suddenly tighten up, so a chain lock up sounds entirely plausible to me.

[SMOKEU]

Is that what typically happens with an excessively loose chain?

[G4L4XY]

What a waste of such a sexy machine

[switchMode]

Chain looks loose while he's sliding, you'd think it would pull tight if it got caught..

[carbonhed]

TBH he doesn't look at all freaked out by what's happening so I don't think he panic braked... OTOH he rides funny... meh... on balance I'd give him a mechanical.

[switchMode]

TBH he didn't even seem to react until it was way too late, maybe he just has glacial reaction times?

[tigertim20]

Chain looks loose while he's sliding, you'd think it would pull tight if it got caught..

not necessarily, if part of the top run jammed between the sprocket nuts and the swingarm, its possible the chain would simply hang on the bottom run.

[switchMode]

not necessarily, if part of the top run jammed between the sprocket nuts and the swingarm, its possible the chain would simply hang on the bottom run.

It would have to jam up pretty tight to not wrap the bottom with the top since its all off the sprocket anyway (if it was caught on anything rotating it would wrap the bottom before the top and wrap the top of the chain down right?), and if that happened how did they just pick it up and walk it off the road? Did it uncatch during the crash? Magic?

I say unlikely.

[george formby]

Well i just watched that with my new fangled youtube frame by frame software, tapping the pause/play button quickly. Coming into the turn he has a finger over the front brake & the balls of his feet high & back on the pegs. I did not see his leg move forward for a bite on the rear brake, may not have been necessary admittedly but it did not look covered to me.
If his chain was fooked, most probably, then braking may have caused a link to piggy back over the front sprocket causing a lock up. Chain most probably shagged from bad wheelies & the best thing about the bike would be the paint job. Show pony.
So, rider error or rider laziness. Same ting.

[Robbo]

This appears to be a classic case for "Mythbusters" :laugh:

[george formby]

This appears to be a classic case for "Mythbusters" :laugh:

More like CSI, shirley? The whole, "t'was not me" thing screams fuckwititis.

[tigertim20]

It would have to jam up pretty tight to not wrap the bottom with the top since its all off the sprocket anyway (if it was caught on anything rotating it would wrap the bottom before the top and wrap the top of the chain down right?), and if that happened how did they just pick it up and walk it off the road? Did it uncatch during the crash? Magic?

I say unlikely.

I mentioned earlier that after watching the vid, Im of the view that it was rear-brake induced. I was simply answering a question by pointing out that it was possible. but yes, IF (and its a big if) the chain getting caught was the cause, it could easily have been jarred loose from the impact of the crash.

[switchMode]

If his chain was fooked, most probably, then braking may have caused a link to piggy back over the front sprocket causing a lock up.
I don't really understand how this would happen if his chain was off the rear sprocket before the crash? Surely the chain would be either pulled right by the front sprocket or the chain would just be rolling around the swingarm. See pic, I just don't see where the chain could jam on the rear wheel that wouldn't cause the chain to snap up just before the crash. Excuse shitty arrows.

[Transalper]

Couldn't resist a look, was going to go with the chain lock but I see the wheel start turning again after the initial skid before the highside.
I think he braked while banking a little, maybe add clipping the edge of the road marker causing the skid, then released the brake too late causing the wheel to regain traction when freed while stepped out to far = formula for highside. You can see the wheel rolling again as the bike stands up but I would not expect a jammed chain to release again, at least the couple I've seen pop off and jam stayed jammed to the end.
I also know from experience that under a nice gentle and constant rear braking scenario that crossing to a different surface (old seal to new seal) that thing can lock up real easy without changing the pedal pressure as the friction level between road and tyre change.. just like bumping a road marker I imagine.

[EJK]

Who needs NZ police serious crash investigation unit when you have Kiwibiker? :eek:

[SVboy]

No-one seems to be pointing out that our "experienced" rider seems to be lacking in basic maintainance skills, which most likely contributed to his crash.

[caspernz]

By the time his hand goes up, the chain is dragging on the deck...lack of experience and panic braking seems to do the rest :eek5:

[Theantidote]

What a waste of such a sexy machine

i was thinking this very thort the other night when mrs antidote fell asleep before i did...

[Owl]

What a waste of such a sexy machine

Were you looking at another video?:confused:

[carbonhed]

What about this one? Panic braking, chain lock up or just the chronic fish out of water harley on a corner syndrome?

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[varminter]

[QUOTE=carbonhed;1130640160]What about this one? Panic braking, chain lock up or just the chronic fish out of water harley on a corner syndrome?

He could have saved it if he hadn't put his foot down.