What should have happened here, Mr Red Baron?

[danchop]

my brother took his 10 inch scooter( wheel only) into rb yesterday to get a puncture fixed,the wheel is a tubeless rim but it had a tube in it from a previous puncture.
so they stick a new tube in and then blow the thing up too much and destroy the new tube and also the tyre.they then stick a new tubeless tyre on and all is honky dory.
the bill is $149.10 for 1 new tube,1 new tyre and an hours labour.thier excuse was that the bead was stuffed.
now i myself have worked in bike shops for around 20 years at various places and have never heard of destroying a new tube and a good tyre like this.
now surprisingly the new tyre seals well on the bead so thier excuse is a bit thick.
my question is this....Why arent motorcycle industry workers drug tested?

[Kickaha]

thier excuse was that the bead was stuffed.
It shouldn't have been put back together then and he should have been rung and told before they did anything more

[danchop]

It shouldn't have been put back together then and he should have been rung and told before they did anything more

there isnt anything wrong with the rim,they obviously used this excuse to hide the fact that 4 million psi was pumped into the thing initially and blew the tube and tyre to bits

[imdying]

I never had this problem during my time with the motor trade, I'd always ask the next course of action before they left the building, based on the estimates I gave them. Kick is quite right though, without having divined the next action to take prior, they should have rung.

IME there are generally two types of Kiwis; tight fisted motherfuckers who debate every dollar, and those that could give two shits about the bill, they just want it done. You can't ever tell by looking at a customer, you absolutely have to ask. Some of the poorest looking people who own the most unloved model of car, may still want to drop a grand having some part or other reconditioned no questions asked no expense spared. Some of the swankiest looking idiots question every dollar, which I fundamentally have no problem with... but fuck me are they prepared to take short cuts at the expense of other road users safety.


tldr; always ask the customer before spending their money... or maybe, be straight and up front in all your business dealings.

[Kickaha]

there isnt anything wrong with the rim,they obviously used this excuse to hide the fact that 4 million psi was pumped into the thing initially and blew the tube and tyre to bits
I'm not taking about the rim, if the bead was stuffed they shouldn't have tried to refit it under any circumstances, even a 10 inch scooter tyre exploding can do a person quite a bit of damage

[AllanB]

Was the old 'damaged' tyre presented to show the issue when the wheel was collected? If not were they asked to show it?

[danchop]

Was the old 'damaged' tyre presented to show the issue when the wheel was collected? If not were they asked to show it?
no he wasnt shown the old bits,they just handed him the rim back and an empty tube box.
my brother isnt too savvy with mechanical things,he reckons all he said really to the rb guy was "i feel ripped off" and the rb guy said "well i can understand that"

[nzspokes]

no he wasnt shown the old bits,they just handed him the rim back and an empty tube box.
my brother isnt too savvy with mechanical things,he reckons all he said really to the rb guy was "i feel ripped off" and the rb guy said "well i can understand that"

Given what I have seen from work to have come out of that workshop Im not surprised. He can go back and ask for the tyre as he still owns it.

[Jseward]

Given what I have seen from work to have come out of that workshop Im not surprised. He can go back and ask for the tyre as he still owns it.

I have heard numerous complains about rb and in fact experienced it myself. After some insurance work, I was handed my bike back, took it for a ride out to the west coast and all day something didn't feel right but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Got back to the lights at the top of the road, and realised the entire upper triple clamp hadn't been bolted back together. When I suggested whoever did the work should be shot, I got a 'oh I will have a word' !! the prick could have killed me.

Personally I would never ever use them again. Guess you have to make your own choice!

[strandedinnz]

I've had a poor service from them once, when I pointed out the issues a little while later (took me a while to find out as it was missing o-rings I only found when doing the next oil change) instead of getting an apology I got half arsed excuses, they told me the oil filters they used don't need the o-rings and that the washer used was perfectly fine as a replacement to the crush washer that was supposed to be there, made me question the quality of the work for the bits I could not see.

So now I and my friends do not use RB for servicing ... we just go in to look at the shiny toys is all.

I've been told that RB used to be good but in the past few years has taken a nose dive in terms of quality.

For your issue, maybe pop into Citizens Advise and see what those guys think can be done, doesn't cost anything to ask :)

[nzspokes]

I was out riding with an L plate rider whos bike had just been in there for a replacement rear brake lever and a bulb in the tail lights.

It had no tail lights, they had taken the bulb out and removed the brake light switch and never replaced it. :eek5:

[hayd3n]

at a guess the bead on the tyre fell off? not the rim

[HenryDorsetCase]

I never had this problem during my time with the motor trade, I'd always ask the next course of action before they left the building, based on the estimates I gave them. Kick is quite right though, without having divined the next action to take prior, they should have rung.

IME there are generally two types of Kiwis; tight fisted motherfuckers who debate every dollar, and those that could give two shits about the bill, they just want it done. You can't ever tell by looking at a customer, you absolutely have to ask. Some of the poorest looking people who own the most unloved model of car, may still want to drop a grand having some part or other reconditioned no questions asked no expense spared. Some of the swankiest looking idiots question every dollar, which I fundamentally have no problem with... but fuck me are they prepared to take short cuts at the expense of other road users safety.


tldr; always ask the customer before spending their money... or maybe, be straight and up front in all your business dealings.

Gosh that was a good post.

[Hitcher]

Shouldn't matters like this be raised with the workshop in question and resolution sought prior to having a rant online?

There are at least two sides to every story and the truth is generally a mix of all of them.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. naaa .. I'd be demanding my money back - the worskhop destroyed the tyre and tube - why should the ower get charged? He never had the tyre and tube in his possession ...

[The Reibz]

Fuck red barron are shit, I seriously dont know how they are still operating. I would buy a bike from them again but thats it.

[Tazz]

Shouldn't matters like this be raised with the workshop in question and resolution sought prior to having a rant online?

There are at least two sides to every story and the truth is generally a mix of all of them.

Doesn't work like that in business. Even when you're right your wrong if something happens.
I think it's best customer service to take it on the chin, tell your customer about it, and (hopefully) have them come back and also tell a few others how awesomely they were looked after, rather than the opposite, where a lot of people hear about how crap you were haha

Surprisingly often if something happens beyond your control but you offer to look after someone they are happy to pay some or all of the cost anyway.

It is a different story if you pre-empt a problem at the start and say 'this' or 'that' may happen. All comes down to staff/experience.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Shouldn't matters like this be raised with the workshop in question and resolution sought prior to having a rant online?

There are at least two sides to every story and the truth is generally a mix of all of them.

pish posh. the KB lynchmob is always right

[imdying]

There are at least two sides to every story and the truth is generally a mix of all of them.This bit I agree with :yes:


Shouldn't matters like this be raised with the workshop in question and resolution sought prior to having a rant online?But this bit... well, they actually did have their chance to avoid it.

Sir, I expect that this puncture repair will cost you $60. However, if the tube needs replacing, it will be $80. If for some reason the tube proves to be incompatible, as this setup is designed to run tube less, and we then need to fit a new tyre, it will be $150. These prices include GST. We will only do what is necessary to repair this for you; would you like us to contact you if it requires more than a puncture repair, or would you like us to do whatever is required in the shortest possible time.

Then the next question is: When would you like this job to be finished by?

Then the next question is: Do you have a mobile phone number where I can reach you if required?

During that, you record all the information against the job card, including the options you've given and how many dollars you estimated.

Then you know their expectations, and how to contact them. It really is that simple. In fact it's too fucking simple. The old fellas used to manage all of that by writing in a book.... we now have systems that store it all in a database, cross reference it to similar jobs (to get an average typical price), and it bleats reminders at you to go check with the workshop on how the job is going, and to make contact with the customer.

Too many people in customer service jobs make their own lives more difficult, and more stressful, than they need to be. People hate getting bad news (this is shagged, bring a wheelbarrow of cash), but if you've already outlined the realities, then making that phone call is soooo much easier.

There was one particular specialist job that we would estimate between $55 and $450 for. We had an old part milled in half, and all of the peculiar problem areas highlighted. I would explain to every customer who brought them in exactly what we would be looking for, why each repair part required was priced the way it was, why some areas of damage (if they were damaged) would extend the time required to complete the job, and by how long. People don't choke on big bills if they've been forewarned... why anyone would want anything else for their customers, I do not know... you're the first point of contact, so it is you who'll cop the brunt of their rage if you don't.

Never make a rod for your own back, honesty, openness, and professionalism go hand in hand.

[Virago]

...so they stick a new tube in and then blow the thing up too much and destroy the new tube and also the tyre.they then stick a new tubeless tyre on and all is honky dory...

What evidence do you have of the "blowing up too much"?

[R650R]

This reminds me of another North Shore bike shop few years ago.
Dropped off the GSXR for big service job, come in to pick it up and WTF broken left mirror.
They said nothing when I paid the service bill like as if it hadn't happened, hoping maybe I wouldn't notice maybe...
Made them buy another one and didn't spend another $ in that shop...

[pete-blen]

yer say they over infated the tyre...
I have put 120psi in a motorbike tyre trying to get it to seat ( I do NOT reccomend...)
on the rim.... this tyre did not go bang...
most if not all standard compresser are set for 100 / 120 psi
its only the likes dive compressers that go to silly psi's ..
If they managed to pop it in the shop.... maybe there was a issue with the tyre..
who know's they may have saved yer life... you will never know... thats the best way to be...

But of course that comes a distant second to the $$$ signs for some...

before anyone asks... The tyre was a 6 ply Trelliborg

[nzspokes]

This reminds me of another North Shore bike shop few years ago.
Dropped off the GSXR for big service job, come in to pick it up and WTF broken left mirror.
They said nothing when I paid the service bill like as if it hadn't happened, hoping maybe I wouldn't notice maybe...
Made them buy another one and didn't spend another $ in that shop...

My Bandit went back twice to the shop where I got it, had exhaust leak. Second time the mechanic got prissy and said it wasnt leaking. To prove it he put is had over the tail pipe and said the bike would stall as his last repair was perfect. It kept running......

I later on found he had been trying to fix it with pipe lagging. :facepalm:

Thats when I decided no bike of mine would get into the hands of a bike shop.

[jellywrestler]

there isnt anything wrong with the rim,they obviously used this excuse to hide the fact that 4 million psi was pumped into the thing initially and blew the tube and tyre to bits




There are at least two sides to every story and the truth is generally a mix of all of them. yeah don't think any compressor would do 4 million PSI, wonder how much else in his tale is a little innaccurate?

[skippa1]

Sir, I expect that this puncture repair will cost you $60. However, if the tube needs replacing, it will be $80. If for some reason the tube proves to be incompatible, as this setup is designed to run tube less, and we then need to fit a new tyre, it will be $150. These prices include GST. We will only do what is necessary to repair this for you; would you like us to contact you if it requires more than a puncture repair, or would you like us to do whatever is required in the shortest possible time.

Then the next question is: When would you like this job to be finished by?

Then the next question is: Do you have a mobile phone number where I can reach you if required?

During that, you record all the information against the job card, including the options you've given and how many dollars you estimated.

Then you know their expectations, and how to contact them. It really is that simple. In fact it's too fucking simple. The old fellas used to manage all of that by writing in a book.... we now have systems that store it all in a database, cross reference it to similar jobs (to get an average typical price), and it bleats reminders at you to go check with the workshop on how the job is going, and to make contact with the customer.

Too many people in customer service jobs make their own lives more difficult, and more stressful, than they need to be. People hate getting bad news (this is shagged, bring a wheelbarrow of cash), but if you've already outlined the realities, then making that phone call is soooo much easier.


^^^^^^^this is spot on and so simple

[bsasuper]

those red baron(Auckland) f@$%erf&*%@rs FU#ked me off about 10yrs ago, havnt been back since, never will, in the mean time spent about 100k at OTHER GOOD bike shops.

[russd7]

my brother took his 10 inch scooter( wheel only) into rb yesterday to get a puncture fixed,the wheel is a tubeless rim but it had a tube in it from a previous puncture.
so they stick a new tube in and then blow the thing up too much and destroy the new tube and also the tyre.they then stick a new tubeless tyre on and all is honky dory.
the bill is $149.10 for 1 new tube,1 new tyre and an hours labour.thier excuse was that the bead was stuffed.
now i myself have worked in bike shops for around 20 years at various places and have never heard of destroying a new tube and a good tyre like this.
now surprisingly the new tyre seals well on the bead so thier excuse is a bit thick.
my question is this....Why arent motorcycle industry workers drug tested?
seems to me every one has missed the real question that was asked, my answer is simple, like freezing workers or hot air ballon operators, if they drug tested them properly then they wouldn't have any.
just my 2cents worth

[spanner spinner]

This bit I agree with :yes:

But this bit... well, they actually did have their chance to avoid it.

Sir, I expect that this puncture repair will cost you $60. However, if the tube needs replacing, it will be $80. If for some reason the tube proves to be incompatible, as this setup is designed to run tube less, and we then need to fit a new tyre, it will be $150. These prices include GST. We will only do what is necessary to repair this for you; would you like us to contact you if it requires more than a puncture repair, or would you like us to do whatever is required in the shortest possible time.

Then the next question is: When would you like this job to be finished by?

Then the next question is: Do you have a mobile phone number where I can reach you if required?

During that, you record all the information against the job card, including the options you've given and how many dollars you estimated.

Then you know their expectations, and how to contact them. It really is that simple. In fact it's too fucking simple. The old fellas used to manage all of that by writing in a book.... we now have systems that store it all in a database, cross reference it to similar jobs (to get an average typical price), and it bleats reminders at you to go check with the workshop on how the job is going, and to make contact with the customer.

Too many people in customer service jobs make their own lives more difficult, and more stressful, than they need to be. People hate getting bad news (this is shagged, bring a wheelbarrow of cash), but if you've already outlined the realities, then making that phone call is soooo much easier.

There was one particular specialist job that we would estimate between $55 and $450 for. We had an old part milled in half, and all of the peculiar problem areas highlighted. I would explain to every customer who brought them in exactly what we would be looking for, why each repair part required was priced the way it was, why some areas of damage (if they were damaged) would extend the time required to complete the job, and by how long. People don't choke on big bills if they've been forewarned... why anyone would want anything else for their customers, I do not know... you're the first point of contact, so it is you who'll cop the brunt of their rage if you don't.

Never make a rod for your own back, honesty, openness, and professionalism go hand in hand.



Can't agree with is statement more, have been there done that and been the guy on the front line and this rings so true. Tell the customer how it is up front give them the bad news and the estimated costs and there options and leave them to make there own informed decision. If they don't like what they have been told they have the option to go elsewhere, and in my experience the customers that do go some where else because they don't want to pay for a proper repair are no great loss. They seem to be the people that will grudgingly agree to the cost of the repair when they have no other option but to repair things properly but then still don't want to/can't pay.

[spanner spinner]

seems to me every one has missed the real question that was asked, my answer is simple, like freezing workers or hot air ballon operators, if they drug tested them properly then they wouldn't have any.
just my 2cents worth

Not all of us are drugged out piss heads, I have most likely drunk less booze during the 20 + years that I have been in the industry than most people drink at one bike rally weekend. There are some problem people in the bike industry same as any work place in NZ not denying that but generally most people I have worked with or have worked for me have been fine.

[Zedder]

yeah don't think any compressor would do 4 million PSI, wonder how much else in his tale is a little innaccurate?

I took it to be an exaggeration to make a point like someone would write "He went screaming down that straight at the speed of light" or similar.

The issue though is what appears to be really bad customer service. In all fairness, we would need someone from Red Baron to comment on that.

As for the drug testing question, maybe an over reaction by the OP, but I'd be concerned if someone was saying it about my company.

[russd7]

Not all of us are drugged out piss heads, I have most likely drunk less booze during the 20 + years that I have been in the industry than most people drink at one bike rally weekend. There are some problem people in the bike industry same as any work place in NZ not denying that but generally most people I have worked with or have worked for me have been fine.

my apologies, was meant as a piss take and to be fair most mechanics i have come across are clean, most bad jobs i have had done were when they let the apprentice loose without proper supervision, basicly why i started doing all my own maintenance again when i was on the farm

[FROSTY]

Im not taking the side of RB here but reading the OP had alarm bells ringing in my head. Tyre wouldn't hold air any more. Tube fitted due to ANOTHER puncture. Given a workshop compressor caps out at 120psi I'd say the origonal tyre was rotten to the core. Literally.
I bet the cords were rotted away due to age and water penetration. Add some air to get the darn thing to bead and it rips open.
Happy to be proven wrong here

[nzspokes]

Im not taking the side of RB here but reading the OP had alarm bells ringing in my head. Tyre wouldn't hold air any more. Tube fitted due to ANOTHER puncture. Given a workshop compressor caps out at 120psi I'd say the origonal tyre was rotten to the core. Literally.
I bet the cords were rotted away due to age and water penetration. Add some air to get the darn thing to bead and it rips open.
Happy to be proven wrong here

Seems to be more of a customer service error over mechanical one to me. Another company that doesnt like talking to there customers.

[danchop]

Im not taking the side of RB here but reading the OP had alarm bells ringing in my head. Tyre wouldn't hold air any more. Tube fitted due to ANOTHER puncture. Given a workshop compressor caps out at 120psi I'd say the origonal tyre was rotten to the core. Literally.
I bet the cords were rotted away due to age and water penetration. Add some air to get the darn thing to bead and it rips open.
Happy to be proven wrong here
thats a good theory but the scooter has been used most working days since 08 and this tyre was new in jan,the tyre previously had a nail puncture.also remember the new tube was also destroyed and i dont know whether the size of only ten inch has a bearing or not,but you should know

[ktm84mxc]

In most shops the apprentice/tea boy does the tire/puncture repairs as it's usually a job any rock ape can handle with out supervision. You'll probably find said person fucked the tire on the tire machine when getting it off the rim, seen it happen.