Roastbusters

[Katman]

So it turns out that one of these characters is the son of a celebrity (with an international profile) and another is the son of an Auckland police officer.

I'm looking forward to the naming and shaming.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Roast-Busters-sons-of-high-profile-entertainer-cop/tabid/423/articleID/320034/Default.aspx#.Unk8pfmkprA

[fridayflash]

me too...bit annoyed at the arogance of these north shore middle class pratts, fathers and older brothers of the girls in question would like to give them a good rucking im sure:mad:

[MIXONE]

There is a vigilante group on Farcebook who want to have a wee chat with these clowns.:bash:

[Zedder]

me too...bit annoyed at the arogance of these north shore middle class pratts, fathers and older brothers of the girls in question would like to give them a good rucking im sure:mad:

Apparently they're from west Auckland not the north shore:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11151474

[ellipsis]

me too...bit annoyed at the arogance of these north shore middle class pratts, fathers and older brothers of the girls in question would like to give them a good rucking im sure:mad:


...lots of guys might like to get them pissed and give them a good fucking also...

[Banditbandit]

Yeah - I saw the story and thought these guys were stupid ...they might think they are safe from the cops - but angry parents might be another matter - especially fathers with shotguns ... and there you go - an vigilante group is hunting them ... couldn't happen to a more deserving group ...

[BigAl]

Hopefully they'll get their roasts busted.

[ellipsis]

Hopefully they'll get their roasts busted.

...well they have certainly had their boasts busted...

[fridayflash]

Apparently they're from west Auckland not the north shore:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11151474

i stand corrected..and no offence to regular north shore folks!

[Jase H]

Wondering if any of the cops on the forum could clarify.

The official line from the Police is that they can't prosecute because no-one's made a complaint. However, if they've already bragged about sex with under age girls, isn't that an admission to breaking the law?

Or put another way, if we (hypothetically of course :-) ) set up a Facebook page to brag about speeding on NZ's roads, does this mean that we wouldn't be busted for speeding until we've actually been caught in the act? Or is that the case - claims are just that and considered unfounded until someone lodges a complaint or the Police catch offenders in the act?

[Scuba_Steve]

Wondering if any of the cops on the forum could clarify.

The official line from the Police is that they can't prosecute because no-one's made a complaint. However, if they've already bragged about sex with under age girls, isn't that an admission to breaking the law?

Or put another way, if we (hypothetically of course :-) ) set up a Facebook page to brag about speeding on NZ's roads, does this mean that we wouldn't be busted for speeding until we've actually been caught in the act? Or is that the case - claims are just that and considered unfounded until someone lodges a complaint or the Police catch offenders in the act?

Na the problem is theres no cash moneys to be made with rape cases, put a price on it & they'll be all over it.

[300weatherby]

Curious that there has been total inaction untill the media made it public, I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that the son of a serving police officer with seniority has anything to do with it..........True or not, it is the perception held by many.

As a father, if I were to discover my daughter/s got caught up with this little scum team, they would be taken somewhere quiet, for a long and painfull "chat" and their lives would be forever changed.......... Their own families should be sorting them and harshly, not hiding.

Social media, of which KB is a part, is monitered by big brother, there will be a police presence here (not meaning Rastus or Scummy), that remains unobtrusive, looking for the ghosts under the bed, instead of walking a beat-I wonder if they note, and recognise that the police and "justice" system is failing those that deserve better, and weather it is right or wrong, at some point, ordinary kiwis are going to start seeking retribution for crimes committed against them as the first option, because it is the only way to get justice as it should be.


I look forward to seeing action, if it were within my power, they would be off to Parry with a jar of vasaline in their pocket, and it would be filmed and plastered all over social media, that indeed, would be justice.

[Stirts]

me too...bit annoyed at the arogance of these north shore middle class pratts, fathers and older brothers of the girls in question would like to give them a good rucking im sure:mad:


but angry parents might be another matter - especially fathers with shotguns ... and there you go - an vigilante group is hunting them ... couldn't happen to a more deserving group ...

Don't get me wrong...I am all for these boys getting their heads caved in. But I am annoyed at the "fathers and older brothers" too. I am sorry, but where were these fathers and older brothers of the girls that are underage and drunk.

By no means am I saying it is their fault or that the victims were "asking for it". Maybe I am just old school and had a protective dad who didn't let me drink and hang with boys until I was of age and had a more mature understanding of how the world works. Too many times I see very young girls walking the streets and think, where are their parents. (fuck now I sound like my parents)
I am sorry to say, there are some pretty farken messed-up c00nts out there just looking for the right opportunity.

[SMOKEU]

Or put another way, if we (hypothetically of course :-) ) set up a Facebook page to brag about speeding on NZ's roads, does this mean that we wouldn't be busted for speeding until we've actually been caught in the act? Or is that the case - claims are just that and considered unfounded until someone lodges a complaint or the Police catch offenders in the act?

I think it mainly depends on the seriousness of the crime. Plenty of people on KB admit to doing illegal things like operating a motor vehicle on a public road without a current vehicle license, speeding, smoking buds etc but I don't think the police are going to waste time on minor offences like that. If someone were to admit to rape or murder, then I guess things would be a lot different.

[haydes55]

If I say "I have murdered a hooker" on fb or kb, the cops can investigate, but until they find a body which I could have killed, they can't charge me with murder.

As far as the law is concerned, no crime has been commited until they have found a crime. If they claim to have screwed underage girls. Until those claims are confirmed they can't charge them.

Otherwise all the homeless people in NZ would say they raped the queen and be upgraded to a 3 star prison suite for the rest of their comfortable lives.

[rustyrobot]

If I say "I have murdered a hooker" on fb or kb, the cops can investigate, but until they find a body which I could have killed, they can't charge me with murder.

As far as the law is concerned, no crime has been commited until they have found a crime. If they claim to have screwed underage girls. Until those claims are confirmed they can't charge them.



Yes, but if you said "I have murdered a hooker and videoed it" you'd expect that they might seize your computer, mobile phones, etc. At least these scumbags were stupid enough to be naming their victims, which leaves an easy trail for prosecution. I still don't believe this should be on the victim to initiate the prosecution though. I mean, how does this happen in cases where there is intimidation, say from a gang. They still manage to proceed with charges there.

There are at least 3 laws being broken by these guys (rape, statutory rape, harassment), and I find it very hard to believe that their family connections are not at least slightly hindering the progress of prosecution.

[Zedder]

Some info from Victoria's Dept of Justice but relevant to NZ and quite concise: http://www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au/home/charges+laid/laying+charges/

[Jeff Sichoe]

18 year old boys raping 13 year old drunk girls

John Key - They need to grow up

Hey John Key how about I rape your little son and then say i've learnt the error of my ways ya reckon that'd be all good bro?

[Katman]

What the fuck's John Key got to do with it?

[rustyrobot]

What the fuck's John Key got to do with it?

That was John Key's quoted response - "they need to grow up". What a fecking douchebag. A spell in prison should grow them up some.

[Jeff Sichoe]

What the fuck's John Key got to do with it?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9362851/Senior-detective-joins-Roast-Busters-inquiry

Prime Minister John Key condemned the alleged actions of the gang as "extremely disturbing and disgusting behaviour".

"These young guys should just grow up," Key said yesterday.

[EJK]

It's funny cause he's got a loose daughter. https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=john+key+daughter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FVd4UracMoiSiAfqnIHoAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=677

[Oscar]

18 year old boys telling stories about raping 13 year old drunk girls

John Key - They need to grow up

Hey John Key how about I rape your little son and then say i've learnt the error of my ways ya reckon that'd be all good bro?

Fixed it for ya.
You could try growing up some yourself there Bubb.

[mashman]

The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo - the scene where she gets her own back.

[Hitcher]

It's funny cause he's got a loose daughter.

What John Key's daughter may get up to has got nothing whatsoever to do with carloads of rapists roaming around looking to have their way with young women they have plied with mind-altering substances and then broadcast livid coverage of the acts involved, without the consent of their victims.

Blokes who like to get their dicks out in public have always troubled me, but Roastbusters take this to a whole new level.

[imdying]

I assume roast is a reference to 'spit roasting (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spit+roast)' the girls in question... or does it mean something else?

[nzmikey]

So it turns out that one of these characters is the son of a celebrity (with an international profile) and another is the son of an Auckland police officer.

I'm looking forward to the naming and shaming.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Roast-Busters-sons-of-high-profile-entertainer-cop/tabid/423/articleID/320034/Default.aspx#.Unk8pfmkprA

Well 1 of the kids belongs to this dude ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Ray_Parker Remember him ???

[Flip]

Sounds to me like the roast busters are about to get 3 square meals a day and all the sex they can handle.

[Banditbandit]

Don't get me wrong...I am all for these boys getting their heads caved in. But I am annoyed at the "fathers and older brothers" too. I am sorry, but where were these fathers and older brothers of the girls that are underage and drunk.



I agree witrh you - don't get me wrong, I'm certainly blaming the boys, but yes, what the hell were underaged teenager girls getting into that situation ?? Where were their families ???


Yes, but if you said "I have murdered a hooker and videoed it" you'd expect that they might seize your computer, mobile phones, etc. At least these scumbags were stupid enough to be naming their victims, which leaves an easy trail for prosecution. I still don't believe this should be on the victim to initiate the prosecution though. I mean, how does this happen in cases where there is intimidation, say from a gang. They still manage to proceed with charges there.

There are at least 3 laws being broken by these guys (rape, statutory rape, harassment), and I find it very hard to believe that their family connections are not at least slightly hindering the progress of prosecution.


Naaa ... any defence lawyer would just say it was teenage boys bravado and false boasting .. and the prosecution would need to wheel in the victims to say what had happened to them .. without the victims, in court it is just teenage bravado and bullshit ...

Family connections have bugger all to do with it - no victims have, as yet, come forward ...

[avgas]

Not enough Jandal NZ :whistle:

[Mom]

What John Key's daughter may get up to has got nothing whatsoever to do with carloads of rapists roaming around looking to have their way with young women they have plied with mind-altering substances and then broadcast livid coverage of the acts involved, without the consent of their victims.

Blokes who like to get their dicks out in public have always troubled me, but Roastbusters take this to a whole new level.

What this man says! Honestly, this is really disturbing on a few levels. These young perverts need a big lesson, and it needs to come down on them like a ton of bricks. Surely the plice can take action without a complaint from one of the victims?

Their parents must be SO proud of them *sarcasm for those that missed it. If my son had done something like this I would have taken him to the cops myself! FFS!

[Drew]

If my son had done something like this I would have taken him to the cops myself! FFS!I think the cops would have paid me a visit, if my son did this...to follow up on why the ambulance had to come get him.

[Akzle]

where do i sign up?

[skippa1]

John Key - They need to grow up


That was John Key's quoted response - "they need to grow up". What a fecking douchebag. A spell in prison should grow them up some.

What you guys need to do is grow up

[skippa1]

where do i sign up?

To be a roast buster, a cop or a prime minister? Specificity

[Drew]

To be a roast buster, a cop or a prime minister? Specificity

If you draw a Ven diagram with the three roles...

[scumdog]

Naaa ... any defence lawyer would just say it was teenage boys bravado and false boasting .. and the prosecution would need to wheel in the victims to say what had happened to them .. without the victims, in court it is just teenage bravado and bullshit ...

Family connections have bugger all to do with it - no victims have, as yet, come forward ...

Wot 'e sed.

[Laava]

where do i sign up?

Winz. They will pay for the costs involved in travelling there to sign up.
And they will provide you with a pen to do the signing.

[Akzle]

Winz. They will pay for the costs involved in travelling there to sign up.
And they will provide you with a pen to do the signing.

ahh. Better rub on some shoe polish on. Could do with a new flatscreen and washing machine too. And a case of woodstocks to wash my mullet with.

[Banditbandit]

Wot 'e sed.

Jeez mate .. you're starting to worry me - you agree with me a little too often - what will that do to my anti-authoratarian reputation ??? A cop agreeing with me .. I ask you ...

[oldrider]

All these young people could look to Super Mayor Len Brown for leadership ... or is that part of the problem already? :sick:

[Zedder]

All these young people could look to Super Mayor Len Brown for leadership ... or is that part of the problem already? :sick:

Let it go man, gold mining is better for ya.

[caspernz]

Naaa ... any defence lawyer would just say it was teenage boys bravado and false boasting .. and the prosecution would need to wheel in the victims to say what had happened to them .. without the victims, in court it is just teenage bravado and bullshit ...

Family connections have bugger all to do with it - no victims have, as yet, come forward ...

Yep, damn straight!!

All the emotive responses to the little roast buster clip shown on the 6 o'clock news cracks me up. It's not proven as yet, since no complaint has been made, nobody has been charged, nobody has been convicted...sooo what's the fuss about?

What those two clowns bragged about, has been bragged about by a good many teenage boy who hasn't grown into a man yet...the difference is the social media angle.

And hey, if there's any truth to their story...it'll be sorted good and proper before they get to court :innocent:

[Banditbandit]

You got me wrong - I believe they did it ... I just know that without an actual victim in court the case will fail ...

[Oscar]

You got me wrong - I believe they did it ... I just know that without an actual victim in court the case will fail ...

The lack of a victim tends to suggest that it is a case of young fellas talking shit.

[caspernz]

You got me wrong - I believe they did it ... I just know that without an actual victim in court the case will fail ...

It's a self-solving problem...give it a few days and the truth will emerge.

[Scuba_Steve]

The lack of a victim tends to suggest that it is a case of young fellas talking shit.

yea cause rape victims are always soo keen to tell all their mates/class mates they were rapped let alone publicly :facepalm:

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think it mainly depends on the seriousness of the crime. Plenty of people on KB admit to doing illegal things like operating a motor vehicle on a public road without a current vehicle license, speeding, smoking buds etc but I don't think the police are going to waste time on minor offences like that. If someone were to admit to rape or murder, then I guess things would be a lot different.


a lot of people here murder the English language every day. And nothing is done. OH THE HUMANITY

[HenryDorsetCase]

What the fuck's John Key got to do with it?

the response was to his reported comment. also he is a cunt but that isn't important right now.

[Oscar]

yea cause rape victims are always soo keen to tell all their mates/class mates they were rapped let alone publicly :facepalm:


You got that out of my comment about young fellas talking shit.
Are you really that stupid?


Also, what have you got against Rap?

[Banditbandit]

The lack of a victim tends to suggest that it is a case of young fellas talking shit.

There were victims on the tv news stories - just blacked out and identity concealed and not preapred to talk to police or the courts ..


It's a self-solving problem...give it a few days and the truth will emerge.

Only if one or two victims come forward and are prepared to talk in court ... a very hard thing for a young girl to do ...

[SMOKEU]

a lot of people here murder the English language every day. And nothing is done. OH THE HUMANITY

That should be a capital A at the start of the sentence, and a better term would be "Many", rather than "a lot". Don't forget the full stop at the end of the last sentence. You're welcome.

[Oscar]

There were victims on the tv news stories - just blacked out and identity concealed and not preapred to talk to police or the courts ..



Only if one or two victims come forward and are prepared to talk in court ... a very hard thing for a young girl to do ...

As harsh as it seems, without victims prepared to speak up, this is all just hearsay.
Either the allegations are true and the way the media and public have reacted may not allow justice to take it's course, or the allegations are not true and some young men have had their lives ruined.

[HenryDorsetCase]

That should be a capital A at the start of the sentence, and a better term would be "Many", rather than "a lot". Don't forget the full stop at the end of the last sentence. You're welcome.

No, thank you. That was totally warranted and constructive criticism.

[rustyrobot]

Only if one or two victims come forward and are prepared to talk in court ...

That's what I don't get. If they have potential video evidence (as alluded to by the accused), and they can verify the age of them and the victim (which shouldn't be too hard) - there is grounds for a statutory rape charge at the least. Surely if that's the case then the police have the grounds to be more proactive in acquiring the evidence? I suppose there's no way to know what's going on behind the scenes.

And just to be horrifically cynical - seeing how the police have known about this for two years, is it just pure coincidence that it comes to light the same week as the Harmful Digital Communications Bill is before parliament?


Here's a sample of the Bill, which could apply to a fair amount of posts on this forum:


Causing harm by means of communication device
“(1) A person (person A) commits an offence if person A sends or causes to be sent to another
person (person B) by means of any communication device a message or other matter that is—
“(a) grossly offensive; or
“(b) of an indecent, obscene, or menacing character; or
“(c) knowingly false

[Tigadee]

It's funny cause he's got a loose daughter. https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=john+key+daughter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=FVd4UracMoiSiAfqnIHoAw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=677

Bet he's like...
http://fmacskasy.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/john-key2.png?w=595


That's what I don't get. If they have potential video evidence (as alluded to by the accused), and they can verify the age of them and the victim (which shouldn't be too hard) - there is grounds for a statutory rape charge at the least. Surely if that's the case then the police have the grounds to be more proactive in acquiring the evidence? I suppose there's no way to know what's going on behind the scenes.

Guess they're a bit shy after the Dot Com fiasco?


If I say "I have murdered a hooker" on fb or kb, the cops can investigate, but until they find a body which I could have killed, they can't charge me with murder.

GTA much? :laugh:


Hopefully they'll get their roasts busted.

How about "Ball busted"? Or "Butt roasted"?

[300weatherby]

That should be a capital A at the start of the sentence, and a better term would be "Many", rather than "a lot". Don't forget the full stop at the end of the last sentence. You're welcome.

A "many" of people makes no sense.

You missed that it should have been: "0h the inhumanity!", not "Oh the humanity":rolleyes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

A "many" of people makes no sense.

You missed that it should have been: "0h the inhumanity!", not "Oh the humanity":rolleyes:

Herbert Morrison begs to differ.

http://rideapart.com/2013/11/2014-bmw-s-1000-r-official-specs/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Morrison_%28announcer%29

[Zedder]

That's what I don't get. If they have potential video evidence (as alluded to by the accused), and they can verify the age of them and the victim (which shouldn't be too hard) - there is grounds for a statutory rape charge at the least. Surely if that's the case then the police have the grounds to be more proactive in acquiring the evidence? I suppose there's no way to know what's going on behind the scenes.

And just to be horrifically cynical - seeing how the police have known about this for two years, is it just pure coincidence that it comes to light the same week as the Harmful Digital Communications Bill is before parliament?


Here's a sample of the Bill, which could apply to a fair amount of posts on this forum:

As frustrating as it is, that's the way the system works. No evidence has come to light to enable the police to lay charges.

Also, it's only a Bill before Parliament at present there's a long way to go before it becomes an Act.

[BoristheBiter]

A "many" of people makes no sense.

You missed that it should have been: "0h the inhumanity!", not "Oh the humanity":rolleyes:

http://thundernoodle.net/notblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/2640789668_48a2a84ddf.jpg

[Banditbandit]

a lot of people here murder the English language every day. And nothing is done. OH THE HUMANITY


That should be a capital A at the start of the sentence, and a better term would be "Many", rather than "a lot". Don't forget the full stop at the end of the last sentence. You're welcome.

I agree the sentence should start with a capital - but here is a difference between "a lot" and "many" ... as language is a means of communication, different things are communicated by different words ...

[Robbo]

According to an article in todays Horrid, it looks like a complaint was made to the police two years ago.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11152592

I think there is more to this story than has come out yet.

[Laava]

I think there is more to this story than has come out yet.

Oh-oh! A conspiracy? That should be good for another ten pages!

[Tazz]

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201345/cartoo1.jpg

[Akzle]

Also, it's only a Bill before Parliament at present there's a long way to go before it becomes an Act.

passed third reading nae? Means enacted in 12months unless royal assent sooner nae?

[Mom]

WTF! I am disturbed on so many levels!

When I was a kid growing up, there was a really well known, and understood age limit to legally have sex.

It was 16! That was the minimum age.

It still is!

Of course many of us "kids" blurred the lines around that age limit (I may or may have not rooted the bloke I eventually married before I turned 16, I cant remember exactly).

I guess nothing changes really.

This takes the blurring of those lines to a level that is not acceptable.

Where are the parents of these kids?

Why are the cops not digging deeper?

Cops son may be involved?

Please not that be a reason why there is no investigation happening.

Full and Frank Disclosure, please and thank you.

[tigertim20]

WTF! I am disturbed on so many levels!

When I was a kid growing up, there was a really well known, and understood age limit to legally have sex.

It was 16! That was the minimum age.

It still is!

Of course many of us "kids" blurred the lines around that age limit (I may or may have not rooted the bloke I eventually married before I turned 16, I cant remember exactly).

I guess nothing changes really.

This takes the blurring of those lines to a level that is not acceptable.

Where are the parents of these kids?

Why are the cops not digging deeper?

Cops son may be involved?

Please not that be a reason why there is no investigation happening.

Full and Frank Disclosure, please and thank you.

the 'problem' is that now kids are more aware of the law etc. e.g. there is an awful lot more to the 'age of consent' that just both parties being 16 or over.
sexual connection with a person under 12 = always illegal, end of story.
if one person is aged 13-15, and the other person is aged 20 or under, well theres rather a large gap in the law there, where basically as long as it was consensual, 99% of the time, there is nothing that can be done about it even if it comes to light. theres also nothing legally that can really be done about two people both aged between 13-15 having sex, as long as it was consensual.

I would wonder, if this whole thing is a few years old now, how old were the boys when it happened? were they 15? 16? 17? 19? and how old were the girls?

I dont have TV so I didnt see the news snippet, but how exactly is the 'rape' quantified? because the girl was underage, or because she was physically forced?

there is a difference between an adolescent thinking they are an adult, and making adult decisions, only to later realise they arent an adult, and they have regrets and feel bad for their decisions, vs actually being held down and raped. is there any certainty that this isnt the case here?

[blue rider]

Don't get me wrong...I am all for these boys getting their heads caved in. But I am annoyed at the "fathers and older brothers" too. I am sorry, but where were these fathers and older brothers of the girls that are underage and drunk.

By no means am I saying it is their fault or that the victims were "asking for it". Maybe I am just old school and had a protective dad who didn't let me drink and hang with boys until I was of age and had a more mature understanding of how the world works. Too many times I see very young girls walking the streets and think, where are their parents. (fuck now I sound like my parents)
I am sorry to say, there are some pretty farken messed-up c00nts out there just looking for the right opportunity.

The question is not where the fathers and brothers and mothers of the victim were.

The question is where are the fathers, brothers and mothers of the member of this gang and why did they fail to properly educate these young men that rape is not conductive to a good future.

How come these guys felt it was ok to rape (by their own admission.)

Where have been the parents of these young men. Call me old school, but I do believe that someone should have told these guys that raping someone is a crime punishable by several years of prison. Someone should have explained these young men that raping and humiliating someone is not sex.
And someone should have instilled some sense of respect for fellow human beings in these guys.

[blue rider]

the 'problem' is that now kids are more aware of the law etc. e.g. there is an awful lot more to the 'age of consent' that just both parties being 16 or over.
sexual connection with a person under 12 = always illegal, end of story.
if one person is aged 13-15, and the other person is aged 20 or under, well theres rather a large gap in the law there, where basically as long as it was consensual, 99% of the time, there is nothing that can be done about it even if it comes to light. theres also nothing legally that can really be done about two people both aged between 13-15 having sex, as long as it was consensual.

I would wonder, if this whole thing is a few years old now, how old were the boys when it happened? were they 15? 16? 17? 19? and how old were the girls?

I dont have TV so I didnt see the news snippet, but how exactly is the 'rape' quantified? because the girl was underage, or because she was physically forced?

there is a difference between an adolescent thinking they are an adult, and making adult decisions, only to later realise they arent an adult, and they have regrets and feel bad for their decisions, vs actually being held down and raped. is there any certainty that this isnt the case here?


a. girl was under age - statutory rape (in any case if one is less and up to thirteen of age, as they can not legally consent)

b. intoxication - it is generally considered rape or sexual assault if someone gets his/her ways with a person that is so intoxicated that they cannot consent. i.e. you are out on morphine in a hospital and an orderly will have his/her way with you. You might not be screaming NONONONO, but you are also not consenting to having a sexual relationship with the orderly. This is considered Rape.



As for these guys, they knew what they were doing. They thought they get away with it (consider that the police states they can not do anything as no victim has laid charges). They bragged about it, showing it to the Bitches, hahaha, can't unrape the raped girl etc. Watch the little clip, its fun.

The scary thing is that they might have been doing it for years and if they would not have been called out would have continued to have their ways with young girls that have fallen for a pretty face and are going on a date with a predator, just to be gang raped.

[Zedder]

passed third reading nae? Means enacted in 12months unless royal assent sooner nae?

Nope, only introduced yesterday so another 6 stages to go yet. And shit.

[Scuba_Steve]

According to an article in todays Horrid, it looks like a complaint was made to the police two years ago.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11152592

I think there is more to this story than has come out yet.

NZ biggest crimminal gang talking shit, now theres a surprise... <_<


Nope, only introduced yesterday so another 6 stages to go yet. And shit.

Dont worry they'll chuck it through under "emergancy" soon enough

[Zedder]

Dont worry they'll chuck it through under "emergancy" soon enough

Doubt it, it'll be the middle of next year from what I read. There is no emergency and cyber bullying isn't the real issue with the "roast busters" anyway.

The real issue is to do with the underage sex/rapes.

[Berries]

I'd tap it.

[Berries]

No, no, no. Burn them.

[Scuba_Steve]

Doubt it, it'll be the middle of next year from what I read. There is no emergency and cyber bullying isn't the real issue with the "roast busters" anyway.

The real issue is to do with the underage sex/rapes.

Maybee you've missed the types of laws being passed under "urgency"

[Brian d marge]

I think it was a media typo
it should have read " pig roast " ... I wouldn’t be bragging

And fellas you lot need to expand your horizons , the stuff I’m hearing ,,, is MILD to those fellas

Stephen

[Zedder]

Maybee you've missed the types of laws being passed under "urgency"

Maybe I did, please post references to the emergency etc.

[Banditbandit]

the 'problem' is that now kids are more aware of the law etc. e.g. there is an awful lot more to the 'age of consent' that just both parties being 16 or over.
sexual connection with a person under 12 = always illegal, end of story.
if one person is aged 13-15, and the other person is aged 20 or under, well theres rather a large gap in the law there, where basically as long as it was consensual, 99% of the time, there is nothing that can be done about it even if it comes to light. theres also nothing legally that can really be done about two people both aged between 13-15 having sex, as long as it was consensual.

I would wonder, if this whole thing is a few years old now, how old were the boys when it happened? were they 15? 16? 17? 19? and how old were the girls?

I dont have TV so I didnt see the news snippet, but how exactly is the 'rape' quantified? because the girl was underage, or because she was physically forced?

there is a difference between an adolescent thinking they are an adult, and making adult decisions, only to later realise they arent an adult, and they have regrets and feel bad for their decisions, vs actually being held down and raped. is there any certainty that this isnt the case here?

No, the is no gap in the law ... sex under 16 is illegal - and consent never comes into it. Legally people under 16 are considered not old enugh to give consent. And it does not matter what the age of the other person is - if both partiers are underaged then both parties are performing an illegal act ... It is illegal for a person under the age of 16 to have sex AND it is ill;egal for persons to have sex with someone under 16 ...

I sat through court cases where both the girl (14) and the boy (15) were successfully prosecuted ... and found guilty ... The girl was pregnant - the parents insisted charges were laid, and the police charged both parties ... both the boy and girl admitted they knew it was illegal and both knew each other's ages - so they were both prosecuted - much to the girl's parents chargin.

There's also a part of the law which means the older person (over 16) has to establish by I/D that the other person is over 16 ...

Separately, there is also a law against "stupifying" someone and raping them .. age doesn't count on that one ...

[duckonin]

Of course many of us "kids" blurred the lines around that age limit (I may or may have not rooted the bloke I eventually married before I turned 16, I cant remember exactly).

Where are the parents of these kids?

You should be able to answer your own question . You were into it before 16. So where were your parents ? Now think clearly, yep you got it.
All kids push boundary's, these 'shit bags' have crossed the boundary big time.

[Naki Rat]

According to an article in todays Horrid, it looks like a complaint was made to the police two years ago.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11152592

I think there is more to this story than has come out yet.

Make that FOUR complaints (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9371620/Four-girls-contact-police-over-Roast-Busters-group). Lots of arse covering going on now it would seem :whistle:

[bluninja]

Make that FOUR complaints (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9371620/Four-girls-contact-police-over-Roast-Busters-group). Lots of arse covering going on now it would seem :whistle:

Scumbags arses, or police arses?:sweatdrop

[Akzle]

I sat through court cases where both the girl (14) and the boy (15) were successfully prosecuted ... and found guilty ... The girl was pregnant - the parents insisted charges were laid, and the police charged both parties ... both the boy and girl admitted they knew it was illegal and both knew each other's ages - so they were both prosecuted - much to the girl's parents chargin.

There's also a part of the law which means the older person (over 16) has to establish by I/D that the other person is over 16 ...


the problem here is a) going to crackeroo court and b) 'admitting' shit.

Also, i believe there was a case <5 years ago that established checking her 'ID' (identification, not inner diameter. You filthy engineers) was not conridered enough to verify her age. The implied ramifications are hilarious.
Phone her parents

[Akzle]

Scumbags arses, or police arses?:sweatdrop

difference?

[Zedder]

the problem here is a) going to crackeroo court and b) 'admitting' shit.

Also, i believe there was a case <5 years ago that established checking her 'ID' (identification, not inner diameter. You filthy engineers) was not conridered enough to verify her age. The implied ramifications are hilarious.
Phone her parents

You left out c) And shit.

[bluninja]

difference?

You'd need to check a Venn diagram.

[Akzle]

You left out c) And shit.

if a) and b) are heeded, there is no c) or shit.

But thats what i love about school girls, i keep getting older, they stay the same age...

[Zedder]

if a) and b) are heeded, there is no c) or shit.

But thats what i love about school girls, i keep getting older, they stay the same age...

That took you a while but it's "And shit" not "or shit". If ya gunna start a phrase keep it consistant.

School girls? I thought you were having enough trouble working out the difference between the two types of arses as per your earlier post...

[Akzle]

That took you a while but it's "And shit" not "or shit". If ya gunna start a phrase keep it consistant.

School girls? I thought you were having enough trouble working out the difference between the two types of arses as per your earlier post...

ill do what i like. Concerning phraseology, arseology. And shit.
-ology.

[avgas]

established checking her 'ID' (identification, not inner diameter. You filthy engineers)
Always wear gumboots when dealing with tunnels.

[Zedder]

ill do what i like. Concerning phraseology, arseology. And shit.
-ology.

And punctuation/use of capitals-ology.

[blue rider]

open letter from the police to the rapists

http://imperatorfish.com/2013/11/04/please-please-stop-your-raping/

(satire alert!)


There is never any excuse for this sort of thing. We will take a hardline approach towards anyone we think may be involved in this rape group. Where necessary we will issue formal warnings to the individuals involved, and as a last resort we may even arrest someone.

Officers investigating this matter have now spoken to the young men involved, and have urged them to put a stop to their raping.

To those young men who may be thinking of raping someone, we urge you to use good sense and judgement, and to consider possible alternatives. Consider the possibility of undertaking a proper and respectful courtship with your subject over time, followed by the consummation of a fully consensual sexual relationship at the right place and time.

As an alternative, prospective rapists should consider speaking to a counsellor or support person, in order to get the help they need to make the right decisions.

[Scuba_Steve]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1463568_386271621503996_420043372_n.jpg

[rustyrobot]

In regards to the poster above ^^^

"The Daily Blog has had to censor this image due to threats of imprisonment by NZ Police

At 12.57pm today I was contacted by Campbell Moore from NZ Police Public Affairs threatening me with 6months imprisonment and $5000 fine for parodying their Roast Buster Rape inaction.

We have been forced by this threat to censor the parody and believe this is a woeful action by a Police Department under immense pressure to justify their sexist inaction of sex attacks against women that this blog has been highly critical of.

The irony is not lost on me that if I had been bragging about rape, I wouldn’t be arrested, but parodying the inaction of the NZ Police sees me threatened with 6months imprisonment and a fine of $5000.

I find their bullying to be extra disgusting in light of my current complaint against them with IPCA over their bullying and threats that led to the suicide of medicinal cannabis activist, Stephen McIntyre.

I would have thought the NZ Police would be more focused on prosecuting rapists than threatening blog editors with imprisonment for parodying their appalling inaction.

I thought wrong."

[Robbo]

Looks like things are starting to heat up in regards to this issue.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9371620/Independent-inquiry-into-Roast-Busters-sex-case

I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon.

[Big Dave]

The maggots have made prominence in the Aus media too.

[mashman]

pic


In regards to the poster above ^^^

"The Daily Blog has had to censor this image due to threats of imprisonment by NZ Police

At 12.57pm today I was contacted by Campbell Moore from NZ Police Public Affairs threatening me with 6months imprisonment and $5000 fine for parodying their Roast Buster Rape inaction.

We have been forced by this threat to censor the parody and believe this is a woeful action by a Police Department under immense pressure to justify their sexist inaction of sex attacks against women that this blog has been highly critical of.

The irony is not lost on me that if I had been bragging about rape, I wouldn’t be arrested, but parodying the inaction of the NZ Police sees me threatened with 6months imprisonment and a fine of $5000.

I find their bullying to be extra disgusting in light of my current complaint against them with IPCA over their bullying and threats that led to the suicide of medicinal cannabis activist, Stephen McIntyre.

I would have thought the NZ Police would be more focused on prosecuting rapists than threatening blog editors with imprisonment for parodying their appalling inaction.

I thought wrong."

What's wrong with the image. Hell they put motorcyclists on a bill, badda bum tish, board and straplines along the lines of "enjoy the ride, not the race" without my permission. Tis ironic that they've asked for it to be withdrawn as all it displays is the truth.

[Naki Rat]

The maggots have made prominence in the Aus media too.And a bunch of other countries according to weasel features Gower on 3 News. Making us look very dodgy internationally.

[haydes55]

Anyone else really craving roast for dinner?

[blue rider]

Looks like things are starting to heat up in regards to this issue.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9371620/Independent-inquiry-into-Roast-Busters-sex-case

I don't think it's going to go away anytime soon.



we are all doing this sex thing wrong, really it must be cause the Media is referring to the happenings as Group Sex.


The Roast Busters, who were a group of Auckland youths, understood to be aged 17 and 18, have allegedly had group sex with drunk teenage girls and bragged about it online. Some girls have complained to police, but prosecutions were not brought.

"sex" with intoxicated people that can not consent because drunk is usually referred to as rape, not group sex.



earlier statements by the police that nothing can be done because no - one complaint.....ooops not quite right


Four girls have come forward over incidents involving the Roast Busters group, police confirmed today after earlier saying there had been no formal complaints. Three girls came forward in 2011 and one girl came forward in 2012, police said.

Of the four one girl had gone through the process of making her complaint formal via an evidential video interview. The girls were aged between 13 and 15.

as the prime minister says


"There's two parts to this; potentially, there's underage sex and that's worrying to any parent.

"The second really worrying part is that these guys have been boasting about that behaviour online and that is a very serious matter. These are fragile young girls that could potentially take their own lives.

i guess if one would have committed suicide something would have been done?

as for his first comment, not only potentially but for real, "underage sex" was happening. Its just that the consent was lacking, a. because underaged and b. because drunk.

Its the year 2013, somehow it feels like its the Dark Ages.

:brick::brick::brick::brick::brick:

[Akzle]

Anyone else really craving roast for dinner?

absolutely. With a nice 13 year old...








Scotch.

[Katman]

Anyone else really craving roast for dinner?

Funnily enough, we're roasting a chicken.

Looks young to me.

[scumdog]

Anyone else really craving roast for dinner?

Too late - had it.

Roast pork .

[Katman]

Roast pork .

Yes, you are.

[Mike.Gayner]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.

[blue rider]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195kojpq6rrxegif/ku-medium.gif

[Katman]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.

Do you have a daughter?

[Conquiztador]

Yep, threaten someone with a fine and jail for putting a parody of the police on the net, but won't do anything about guys who rape under age girls.

We are fucked.

[Kickaha]

but won't do anything about guys who rape under age girls.

What evidence do you or anyone else have that any rape took place? perhaps you could pass it onto the police so they can prosecute or is trial by media enough to jail someone now?

[Conquiztador]

What evidence do you or anyone else have that any rape took place? perhaps you could pass it onto the police so they can prosecute or is trial by media enough to jail someone now?

Yep. After all it is not the polices job to find the evidence. As concerned citizens we should really do their job for them! And four girls reporting they have been raped is clearly not enough. There needs to be more before it becomes a priority.

[Kickaha]

Yep. After all it is not the polices job to find the evidence. As concerned citizens we should really do their job for them! And four girls reporting they have been raped is clearly not enough. There needs to be more before it becomes a priority.

If you have no evidence then how do you know any rape took place?

[pzkpfw]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.

If that's all it really was, then yeah, over reaction.

But from the details that have been revealed, this was predatory behaviour by teen age boys to get underage girls drunk in order to do things with them they'd not otherwise consent to.

A couple of underage kids "experimenting" is one thing. This was something entirely different. It's not "just" underage sex publicised on facebook.

You want these teens to grow into "Men" who continue to treat Women this way?

[pzkpfw]

If you have no evidence then how do you know any rape took place?

Underage sex is pretty much rape by definition.

[Kickaha]

Underage sex is pretty much rape by definition.

How do you know any underage sex took place? because a social media page put up by these knobends says so? because it's been widely reported by the media?

[Conquiztador]

If you have no evidence then how do you know any rape took place?

Lets see...

Fact 1. 4 young girls reported to police a few years ago that they had been raped/sexually violated (use your own wording here) The police now admits that they have the reports.
Fact 2. The young men had a fb page where they named the girls they had got drunk and then had sex with. Some of the girls were under 16yo.

I could obviously be wrong, but it is looking bad for the young men in this group.

[Kickaha]

I could obviously be wrong, but it is looking bad for the young men in this group.
It certainy is, but if any of that could be proved they would have been nailed for it

[Conquiztador]

It certainy is, but if any of that could be proved they would have been nailed for it
Or perhaps there is another more sinister explanation?

[Madness]

Or perhaps there is another more sinister explanation?

http://gra.co.nz/2012images/SuzannePaul_bnr.jpg

[Thaeos]

In regards to the poster above ^^^

"The Daily Blog has had to censor this image due to threats of imprisonment by NZ Police

At 12.57pm today I was contacted by Campbell Moore from NZ Police Public Affairs threatening me with 6months imprisonment and $5000 fine for parodying their Roast Buster Rape inaction.

We have been forced by this threat to censor the parody and believe this is a woeful action by a Police Department under immense pressure to justify their sexist inaction of sex attacks against women that this blog has been highly critical of.

The irony is not lost on me that if I had been bragging about rape, I wouldn’t be arrested, but parodying the inaction of the NZ Police sees me threatened with 6months imprisonment and a fine of $5000.

I find their bullying to be extra disgusting in light of my current complaint against them with IPCA over their bullying and threats that led to the suicide of medicinal cannabis activist, Stephen McIntyre.

I would have thought the NZ Police would be more focused on prosecuting rapists than threatening blog editors with imprisonment for parodying their appalling inaction.

I thought wrong."

That is pretty disgusting. The paper/blog should've just emailed back "No, See: Fair Use". Or something along those lines.

[Kickaha]

Or perhaps there is another more sinister explanation?
Or maybe there isn't

That is pretty disgusting. The paper/blog should've just emailed back "No, See: Fair Use". Or something along those lines.
If he wants to sling shit at someone he shouldn't be to upset if they sling some back

[Akzle]

There needs to be more before it becomes a priority.

yes. Perhaps someone should have left a voice recorder beside the tea pot, that sure hurrys cases up!

[blue rider]

good read
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/opinion/9372317/Rapists-shouldn-t-rape-the-end?fb_action_ids=10151958368106460&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A426 554114112142%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A%22og .likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A%22s%3 DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like%22%7D
How much worse must all this be, then, for the victims? That thought shocked me out of my apathy, although I didn't see what adding my voice to the chorus of outrage would achieve. Until now. Because it's not merely what these young men have been doing with, and to, vulnerable young women that disgusts and upsets me. It's also the reaction of some men (and it is almost always men) to the story.

By far the worst reactions bubbled up from the usual suspects; anonymous commenters from the cesspits of the internet. The comments were always along the same lines. The girls were "asking for it." They shouldn't have been going out late at night. They'd been inspired by internet porn. They were drunk, so it was their fault. They were sluts.

This, sadly, can be expected. That doesn't make it any less wrong, but it's what you get from twisted minds hiding behind a cloak of anonymity. What I didn't expect was to hear voices in the mainstream news media taking a horrifically similar line. People who should absolutely know better.

The worst I heard was an interview conducted by Radio Live broadcasters Willie Jackson and John Tamihere of, apparently, a female friend of one of the victims. Their line of questioning, while not necessarily exempting the perpetrators from their disgust, blamed the victims from the start.

Were the girls willing drinkers, they asked. Why had they been out late at night? Didn't they know the boys' reputations? Most tellingly, they suggested the boys could not be rapists if "some of the girls had consented." Most disgustingly, they asked their caller what age she had lost her virginity.

How can people react this way to allegations of rape?

[oldrider]

Am I the only person who thinks everyone has entirely lost perspective with this thing? For goodness sake there's nothing new or newsworthy about regrettable drunken teenage sex. Get a grip everyone.

Read the "TRUTH" newspaper reports from back in the mid 1950's, the offenders were referred to as "Juvenile delinquents" in those days!

Same sort of thing apart from the technology ... it was more about the media frenzy surrounding the issue than the offending!

The girls involved were keeping quiet until the media forced one out into the open and then the media descended upon her! (poor girl)

Consequently the young motorcyclists involved became branded as "Milk bar Cowboys"!

These things have been going on since the beginning of time and will still be going on at the end, only the "degree of indignation and uproar" will vary!

[Delerium]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195kojpq6rrxegif/ku-medium.gif


Best GIF ever. where can I get it.

[rustyrobot]

Best GIF ever. where can I get it.

1) Right click.
2) Save image as....

[imdying]

Interesting, the Police Act itself defines why such a prosecution would fail, which they know, so that reveals it as nothing more being a bully.



49Use of term Police or New Zealand Police in operating name
(1)A person commits an offence who, without reasonable excuse, carries on an activity under an operating name that includes the word “Police” or the words “New Zealand Police”, in a manner likely to lead a person to believe that the activity is endorsed or authorised by the Police or any part of the Police.
(2)A person who commits an offence against this section is liable on conviction,—
(a)in the case of an individual, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to a fine not exceeding $5,000:
(b)in the case of a body corporate, to a fine not exceeding $20,000.


Perhaps a countersuit using the new cyber bullying laws would be appropriate (and more likely to be won).

[pzkpfw]

How do you know any underage sex took place? because a social media page put up by these knobends says so? because it's been widely reported by the media?

And complaints by (currently) four girls. And a friend of theirs making statements (on radio, not in court) that appear to show the events occured. And ...

(The police have gone from "no one complained" to "complaints were made but not enough evidence". What next?)



I agree with "innocent until proven guilty".
I agree with the need to avoid hysteria.
I agree with the need for justice, rather than lynch mobs.


But - to have the information we have available and not think something occured, that needs to be dealt with, is just head in the sand behaviour (and yes I direct that squarely at you).

That's exactly the kind of attitude that leads to an unwillingness to report such events, which just aids in further criminal activity.

Rape (or whatever you want to call it) of drunk girls by predatory boys has been going on for a long time, and in many countries. But do you really think that's not something that needs to be fixed in our societies?

[Oscar]

And complaints by (currently) four girls. And a friend of theirs making statements (on radio, not in court) that appear to show the events occured. And ...

(The police have gone from "no one complained" to "complaints were made but not enough evidence". What next?)



I agree with "innocent until proven guilty".
I agree with the need to avoid hysteria.
I agree with the need for justice, rather than lynch mobs.


But - to have the information we have available and not think something occured, that needs to be dealt with, is just head in the sand behaviour (and yes I direct that squarely at you).

That's exactly the kind of attitude that leads to an unwillingness to report such events, which just aids in further criminal activity.

Rape (or whatever you want to call it) of drunk girls by predatory boys has been going on for a long time, and in many countries. But do you really think that's not something that needs to be fixed in our societies?

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

[Akzle]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

fuck.



You just said something sensible.
:scratch:



...did you forget your meds this morning?



:doobey: :lol:


the boys could elect to take themselves to court, have a not-guilty verdict returned (or not) and gtf on with it...

[Zedder]

good read
http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/opinion/9372317/Rapists-shouldn-t-rape-the-end?fb_action_ids=10151958368106460&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A426 554114112142%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A%22og .likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%2210151958368106460%22%3A%22s%3 DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like%22%7D

That sort of talk is par for the course for Jackson and Tamihere, a couple of nasty pieces of work indeed.

I see advertisers are starting to pull out of RadioLive which shows what they think of the those two and their crap as well.

[Oscar]

fuck.



You just said something sensible.
:scratch:



...did you forget your meds this morning?



:doobey: :lol:


the boys could elect to take themselves to court, have a not-guilty verdict returned (or not) and gtf on with it...

Curry for Lunch with three Kingfishers and a coupla rants.

They can't take themselves to court as there are currently no charges to answer.
They could confess to the cops, but judging by the cops form lately, they'll probably end up as Chief Inspectors.

As horrible as it seems, there doesn't seem to be a case to answer at the moment, and should the police ever pull finger and finally put a case together, the lad's brief will scream “ prejudice!” “ trial by media!” and “..your word against his..” and probably get them off.

[oldrider]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

True!

When you consider all the changes in acceptability and attitudes and sex education in schools etc, it would appear that we have simply exchanged one set of problems for another in "some cases"!

Then again when you consider the percentages the higher majority of kids/people have handled things well and moved on into the future!

Oscar has read the situation well just the failures of this case need to be addressed and the rest of society can move on and feel well pleased.

Consider this case as general housekeeping ... if we fail to tidy it up properly ... we do so at our collective peril! :yes:

[blue rider]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four girls and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.


i have fixed this for you. (the women were 13 - 15 at the age when the offending occured, that makes them girls)



I have no issues with what you said, however if people believe they did what they said they did its probably because of that. Cause really, the men that I know would not want to be known as rapists that get under aged girls drunk so that they can have "intercourse" with them, or "Groupsex".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0PcMxLjfJsw#t=0

letter of apology to the girls one of the boys might or might not have raped

sorry if I offended you (i might have screwed you up for ever, but I have gone past that episode in my life and am a much betterer person now

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11151135


A Facebook post, apparently from an unnamed founder of Roast Busters said he had made some "major mistakes" and had tried to make "dramatic changes" to his life.

"I have not been happy with who I have become and if I suffer any consequences from my past actions then I guess I deserve it but I just want people to know I am a good person at heart and I have matured and have taken this as a massive learning experience."

He also apologised to the young girls who had featured on the Facebook page.

"All the girls that have been effected by this whole ridiculousness I apologize and wish the best for you."

Fact is the Police fucked this up badly, very badly. Most rapes - regardless of the age and gender of the person raped will never ever go before police because they are just not the right people to handle it. Most people raped are ashamend, wondering what they have done wrong, will try to rationalise what happened (if i would have done that etc etc etc) and never ever go to police to lay a complaint. What this means for society, while some might only rape once in their lifetime (drunk sex, or sex with the not so willing partner) others go on to be prolific rapists. And they get away with it. And that is the sad truth about rape. It happens to all genders, across all ages and it happens predominately to women. Cause Rapists get away with it.

If the onus is on the Victim to prevent rape, if the onus is on the victim to be a virgin to be allowed to claim rape, if the onus is on the Victim to dress like a nun or a observing muslima to be able to say i did not dress provocative and i was raped, the rapists laugh all they way to the next victims.

Hands up, who would want these 'boys' living in their neighbourhood?

[mashman]

Curry for Lunch with three Kingfishers and a coupla rants.

They can't take themselves to court as there are currently no charges to answer.
They could confess to the cops, but judging by the cops form lately, they'll probably end up as Chief Inspectors.

As horrible as it seems, there doesn't seem to be a case to answer at the moment, and should the police ever pull finger and finally put a case together, the lad's brief will scream “ prejudice!” “ trial by media!” and “..your word against his..” and probably get them off.

Jimmi Saville, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis etc... I guess you have to be famous before a case can be brought against you, or at least it looks as though they'll only take a case against someone that they can throw in jail, or at least they'll only take a case where the complainants are adults. If there are complaints, then there is a case.

[Thaeos]

Or maybe there isn't

If he wants to sling shit at someone he shouldn't be to upset if they sling some back

Except that it isn't just someone slinging shit back, it's the police threatening fines and imprisonment because they can't handle having the piss taken out of them.

[Oscar]

Jimmi Saville, Rolf Harris, Dave Lee Travis etc... I guess you have to be famous before a case can be brought against you, or at least it looks as though they'll only take a case against someone that they can throw in jail, or at least they'll only take a case where the complainants are adults. If there are complaints, then there is a case.

I'm unsurprised that you’ve come up with some silly conspiracy theory, but evidence is evidence, and unfortunately at the moment in this case “they” don't have any. It is sadly typical of cases involving children that parents will try to stop a complaint, whereas the cases you mentioned the witnesses were all adults who had been molested as children.

[pzkpfw]

No problem with any of that.
There needs to be an investigation into the circumstances around the complaints by the four women and severe action taken if guilt is proven.
However, in the meantime we are constantly bombarded by the pictures of two young men, who at the moment are only guilty of being misogynistic dickheads. On this basis, half the men on KB deserve public approbation and to lose their jobs.
If the young girls deserve justice, then the young boys also deserve the presumption of innocence until a case is tried and also to have their rights to a fair trial not prejudiced by the hysteria of the media and public. Almost every aspect of this whole sorry chapter is disgraceful and does not reflect well on NZ society, media and law enforcement.

Well, yeah, that's why I had those "I agree with ..." bits in my post.

What I'm reacting to in that post, is posts like that one by Kickaha, that read less like hysteria-prevention, and more like simple denial.

Yes, there's a media beat-up going on (I even saw this all reported on CNN) but you don't combat that by implying nothing (or nothing consequential) happened.



Frankly, even if (and I don't believe this) all the events were pure fabrication (which would mean the four girls who came forward made up stories that "happened to match" the facebook brags by those boys) - I still would expect some action to be taken. Boys aged 18 bragging about getting 13 year old girls drunk to have group sex with them - is dodgy enough alone.

It turns out one of these boys was recommended to go for counselling of some sort - so there was some wet bus ticket acknowledgement from the cops that there was an issue to be addressed.

We can't pretend this was a non-event.

[mashman]

I'm unsurprised that you’ve come up with some silly conspiracy theory, but evidence is evidence, and unfortunately at the moment in this case “they” don't have any. It is sadly typical of cases involving children that parents will try to stop a complaint, whereas the cases you mentioned the witnesses were all adults who had been molested as children.

It's not a conspiracy theory. Of course there's evidence as there is testimony. Granted it's unsubstantiated, but it's still evidence.

So these girls have to wait until they're adults before they get taken seriously?

[Oscar]

It's not a conspiracy theory. Of course there's evidence as there is testimony. Granted it's unsubstantiated, but it's still evidence.

So these girls have to wait until they're adults before they get taken seriously?

Are you saying someone should force them to testify?
If the cops are to be believed (yes, I know), three girls made accusations against these creeps and then withdrew them, or failed to proceed to the next step.
Shall we prosecute on hearsay?
Take them to Facebook Supreme Court?

[Oscar]

i have fixed this for you. (the women were 13 - 15 at the age when the offending occured, that makes them girls)



I referred to them as "young girls" in the next sentence.

[mashman]

Are you saying someone should force them to testify?
If the cops are to be believed (yes, I know), three girls made accusations against these creeps and then withdrew them, or failed to proceed to the next step.
Shall we prosecute on hearsay?
Take them to Facebook Supreme Court?

We already prosecute on hearsay. Plenty of people pick a guy out of a identity parade and that person gets prosecuted. They have made statements and that should be enough testimony to put the burden of proof on to the boys to have to prove themselves innocent. If they do that, then meh, they're free and the girls will have to live with the result. Isn't that the way things work?

[Smifffy]

We already prosecute on hearsay. Plenty of people pick a guy out of a identity parade and that person gets prosecuted. They have made statements and that should be enough testimony to put the burden of proof on to the boys to have to prove themselves innocent. If they do that, then meh, they're free and the girls will have to live with the result. Isn't that the way things work?

I thought the claim has always been that the burden of proof is for the prosecution to prove them guilty. Not for them to have to prove innocence. Of course in practice I believe it's usually more as you say.

NZ justice system. Meh.

[Oscar]

We already prosecute on hearsay. Plenty of people pick a guy out of a identity parade and that person gets prosecuted. They have made statements and that should be enough testimony to put the burden of proof on to the boys to have to prove themselves innocent. If they do that, then meh, they're free and the girls will have to live with the result. Isn't that the way things work?

Come back when you've mastered the definition of "Hearsay".

http://r127.publications.lawcom.govt.nz/Chapter+3+-+Hearsay+defendants+statements+and+co-defendants+statements/Hearsay

[Smifffy]

Are you saying someone should force them to testify?
If the cops are to be believed (yes, I know), three girls made accusations against these creeps and then withdrew them, or failed to proceed to the next step.
Shall we prosecute on hearsay?
Take them to Facebook Supreme Court?

Probably had Brad Shipton as a case officer...

[Katman]

Probably had Brad Shipton as a case officer...

With Bob Schollum playing the role of 'good cop'.

[mashman]

I thought the claim has always been that the burden of proof is for the prosecution to prove them guilty. Not for them to have to prove innocence. Of course in practice I believe it's usually more as you say.

NZ justice system. Meh.

Yup that's the way it should be, but the case has to get there first and as you highlight, the consistency of burden of proof seems to leave a lot to be desired. It's every justice system innit.


Come back when you've mastered the definition of "Hearsay".

http://r127.publications.lawcom.govt.nz/Chapter+3+-+Hearsay+defendants+statements+and+co-defendants+statements/Hearsay

I'll stop

"1 A hearsay statement is admissible in any proceeding if-

(a) the circumstances relating to the statement provide reasonable assurance that the statement is reliable"

right there. If the only defence for rape needs to be, I didn't fuck her, and that result is there being no case to answer... then there's something every so slightly wrong in the translation of "hearsay" evidence. Given there are at least 4 complaints, with evidence that there are others according to police/media reports, wouldn't you say that "hearsay" in this case is likely more than reasonable?

[Oscar]

I'll stop

"1 A hearsay statement is admissible in any proceeding if-

(a) the circumstances relating to the statement provide reasonable assurance that the statement is reliable"

right there. If the only defence for rape needs to be, I didn't fuck her, and that result is there being no case to answer... then there's something every so slightly wrong in the translation of "hearsay" evidence. Given there are at least 4 complaints, with evidence that there are others according to police/media reports, wouldn't you say that "hearsay" in this case is likely more than reasonable?

What statement?

The ones that the girls made?
You can't prosecute using an interview with someone who declined to make a complaint.

The stuff on line?
If the cops prosecuted based on what was said on line, you'd have been put away years ago.

[blue rider]

I referred to them as "young girls" in the next sentence.

you are to kind.

fact you should have never referred to them as women. I am 45 years old, i am a women. At age 13 I was a girl. Full stop.

as for media hype, If, and that is a capital IF, the police would have acted somewhat more professionally, i don't think it would have gone that far.

This is not so much about a bunch of dickless wonders bragging about drugging girls to rape them. This is about the police keeping watch on a FB page where such claims are made, and do nothing - by their own admission. This is about the Police doing nothing when claims are being made, but then publicly stating that NO Victim was BRAVE enough to come forward and give the Police something to prosecute on.

This is about the eternal question, what is rape. It appears that really there are different interpretation, i.e. she is not a bloody mess....maybe she liked it. She was drunk.....she should have known better. She was not or maybe was a Virgin....where were the parents. That skirt to short.....why i thought she was asking for it.

There is no conspiracy here. The boys bragged they did, some of their friends imply they did, some victims said they did.....maybe they did.

Can it be prosecuted....by the mother, do you have any idea how many rapes are never even mentioned out loud to parents, partners, siblings? Do you have any idea how many raped women never ever mention it, just keep it down, buried in the darkest hole of the soul?
As i stated earlier, most women (and men) don't even bother to go to the police and lay claim. There is a reason for it, and the rapists get away.

Now that is something to ponder about.

Pity with these punks? They should have just not considered themselves Rapists, promoting Chloroform to get girls on a Date etc etc. If they would have choose not to do these vile videos, they would not be in any problem.

You see it is not the victims responsibility to prevent rape. It is up to rapists not to rape.

[Oscar]

you are to kind.

fact you should have never referred to them as women. I am 45 years old, i am a women. At age 13 I was a girl. Full stop.



You call 'em what you want - I'll refer to them anyway I want.
As far as I'm concerned they were girls at 13 and now they're young women.


It's oversensitive semantic shit like this that's strangling this country.

[mashman]

What statement?

The ones that the girls made?
You can't prosecute using an interview with someone who declined to make a complaint.

The stuff on line?
If the cops prosecuted based on what was said on line, you'd have been put away years ago.

"In a statement emailed to media this morning, police said only one of the four complaints was 'formal', "where an official statement was made by way of an evidential video interview"." (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11152671)

[Ender EnZed]

Probably had Brad Shipton as a case officer...


With Bob Schollum playing the role of 'good cop'.

Speaking of those two and since this thread is a little lacking in wild speculation...

It'd be quite something if Beraiah Hales (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9364531/Roast-Buster-accused-bragged-about-group-sex) turned out to be in any way related to Steve (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/207530/Hales-looked-at-second-police-file) and his brother Warren Hales (http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/Data/haleswarren.htm).

[Katman]

You call 'em what you want - I'll refer to them anyway I want.
As far as I'm concerned they were girls at 13 and now they're young women.


It's oversensitive semantic shit like this that's strangling this country.

Dude, accept you lost.

[Oscar]

Dude, accept you lost.

Lost what?

I can call them girls or women, and its not up to some oversenstive Doris to correct me.

[Mom]

Lost what?

I can call them girls or women, and its not up to some oversenstive Doris to correct me.

I take the bait! I am not a Doris by any stretch of the imagination. There is a clear and distinct difference between a girl and a woman, or a girl and a young woman. Girls are children. 13 year olds are still children FFS!

Girls are not wise to the ways of ugly, predative males, girls are naïve. Some girls with a lack of parental support or under peer pressure can find themselves in situations they don't know how to deal with. Never, ever, should some guy, get her drunk and have sex with her, let alone him and his mates. Filming that is beyond what is acceptable under any circumstances. Taking it to a new and utterly degrading level by boasting about what they have done online, a place that is their "community" is repugnant!

The moral compass of our society is screw loose and declining. How the fuck can this ever be considered ok? Its not!

[The Reibz]

http://iforce.co.nz/i/bgvm2y4d.5ci.jpg (http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=bgvm2y4d.5ci.jpg)
Whos going out roasting tonight?

[scumdog]

We already prosecute on hearsay. Plenty of people pick a guy out of a identity parade and that person gets prosecuted. They have made statements and that should be enough testimony to put the burden of proof on to the boys to have to prove themselves innocent. If they do that, then meh, they're free and the girls will have to live with the result. Isn't that the way things work?

So who was picked David Bain out of the identity parade...:confused:

[scumdog]

(Insert childish satire in here)

You want 'sloppy seconds' or something?

[Zedder]

Speaking of those two and since this thread is a little lacking in wild speculation...

It'd be quite something if Beraiah Hales (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9364531/Roast-Buster-accused-bragged-about-group-sex) turned out to be in any way related to Steve (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/207530/Hales-looked-at-second-police-file) and his brother Warren Hales (http://www.safe-nz.org.nz/Data/haleswarren.htm).

Stuff the facts, make something up! After all this is KB...

[scumdog]

Stuff the facts, make something up! After all this is KB...

NOW you're talkin':clap:

This thread is rife with non facts, I'm sure more can be added though...

[rustyrobot]

It's oversensitive semantic shit like this that's strangling this country.

What a crock of shit Oscar. What this country is facing now is the flow on effects of the baby boomers. Your generation were kiddly fiddling, bashing kids and molesting behind the pews with impunity for far too long. Now people are calling it out and it makes you uncomfortable. As if the way we are talking about it is the problem.

[mashman]

So who was picked David Bain out of the identity parade...:confused:

I didn't say all. Must try hard F-

[Oscar]

I take the bait! I am not a Doris by any stretch of the imagination. There is a clear and distinct difference between a girl and a woman, or a girl and a young woman. Girls are children. 13 year olds are still children FFS!


The bait wasn't for you and if it had of been you would have known that in the post in question I used both "young girls" and "women".
The irony is that I did use the word "girls" when I first wrote it and then corrected it to "women" as the girls in question are now 15 or 16. That is because as a middle age male I have to be sensitive to the hyper-sensitivity of some people, as at some point in the teenage years, an older male calling a female a "girl" is considered demeaning by a certain type of person.

[Oscar]

What a crock of shit Oscar. What this country is facing now is the flow on effects of the baby boomers. Your generation were kiddly fiddling, bashing kids and molesting behind the pews with impunity for far too long. Now people are calling it out and it makes you uncomfortable. As if the way we are talking about it is the problem.

Wow, that is the biggest crock of shit I've seen here for a while - you go right past those who are blaming all men and blame a whole generation!

So how old were the "Roastbusters" again?
Some of their parents are too young to be baby boomers....

[Mom]

The bait wasn't for you and if it had of been you would have known that in the post in question I used both "young girls" and "women".
The irony is that I did use the word "girls" when I first wrote it and then corrected it to "women" as the girls in question are now 15 or 16. That is because as a middle age male I have to be sensitive to the hyper-sensitivity of some people, as at some point in the teenage years, an older male calling a female a "girl" is considered demeaning by a certain type of person.

I don't give a shit how you refer to us female types. Honestly, it matters not to me. I love being referred to as a Gal, in fact that one gives me goose bumps. I am a woman, grown, mature and really confident in who I am.

You however seem to have an issue with identifying the term to describe 13 year old children of the female sex. Actually clarify for me if you can, when a "girl" becomes a "young woman"? What defines that?

I am so confused.

[blue rider]

The bait wasn't for you and if it had of been you would have known that in the post in question I used both "young girls" and "women".
The irony is that I did use the word "girls" when I first wrote it and then corrected it to "women" as the girls in question are now 15 or 16. That is because as a middle age male I have to be sensitive to the hyper-sensitivity of some people, as at some point in the teenage years, an older male calling a female a "girl" is considered demeaning by a certain type of person.

Oscar, you call me a girl and I might just tell you to get stuffed, as I am way to old for this sexist bullshit.

At the time of the alleged offending the girls were 13 - 15 years old and would by now 15 - 17 years old. A 15 year old girl is not a young women. A women in her twenties is a young women. Usually we call the 14 - 18 year old Teenagers. Adults they become when they turn 18.

its not a question of loosing or winning. But if Boys are Boys and will be Boys, than 15 year old girls are girls, no matter how much you moan about political correctness.

As a middle aged man you should know better, and you should have better manners than calling females "Girl", unless that female is a relative or close friend or a girl known to you. Calling grown women "girl" is demeaning. It takes away the womens status as an Adult, because women = Adult, girl = Child.

For females that you don't know usually Ms. Mrs. Miss will work well and not cause any upset.

[scumdog]

Meh, just call 'em sheilas, no worries about age etc then...

[blue rider]

I don't give a shit how you refer to us female types. Honestly, it matters not to me. I love being referred to as a Gal, in fact that one gives me goose bumps. I am a woman, grown, mature and really confident in who I am.

You however seem to have an issue with identifying the term to describe 13 year old children of the female sex. Actually clarify for me if you can, when a "girl" becomes a "young woman"? What defines that?

I am so confused.



No you are not. You are polite.
Girl become women when they become fuckable. That usually happens when breast show, and the menses arrive.

Fathers might abhor the idea and believe that their babies stay babies, but it is quite clear that other men will have no issues looking at these girls and see fuckable women.

Oh the jokes about 15 year old. We have many of them.

[Madness]

Girl become women when they become fuckable.

If that's the case I know a few girls in their 40's.

[Akzle]

Calling grown women "girl" is demeaning. It takes away the womens status as an Adult, because women = Adult, girl = Child.

For females that you don't know usually Ms. Mrs. Miss will work well and not cause any upset.

whats your position on lass, or wee lass

[oneofsix]

Girl become women when they become fuckable.

Sounds like a pedophiles' definition.

[Mom]

Girl become women when they become fuckable. That usually happens when breast show, and the menses arrive.

Yeah, them bumps and curves have a lot to answer for, I took a few lumps as a result of mine.

Thank God for decent boys/men that have been raised by decent parents. How the fuck have we allowed this kind of shit to be "monitored"?

[Oscar]

Oscar, you call me a girl and I might just tell you to get stuffed, as I am way to old for this sexist bullshit.

At the time of the alleged offending the girls were 13 - 15 years old and would by now 15 - 17 years old. A 15 year old girl is not a young women. A women in her twenties is a young women. Usually we call the 14 - 18 year old Teenagers. Adults they become when they turn 18.

its not a question of loosing or winning. But if Boys are Boys and will be Boys, than 15 year old girls are girls, no matter how much you moan about political correctness.

As a middle aged man you should know better, and you should have better manners than calling females "Girl", unless that female is a relative or close friend or a girl known to you. Calling grown women "girl" is demeaning. It takes away the womens status as an Adult, because women = Adult, girl = Child.

For females that you don't know usually Ms. Mrs. Miss will work well and not cause any upset.

Your comprehension skills need sharpening.
First you get up me about calling girls "women", now your on about me calling you a "girl" (which I certainly did not do, I called you a Doris).


This makes me laugh, too:


At the time of the alleged offending the girls were 13 - 15 years old and would by now 15 - 17 years old. A 15 year old girl is not a young women. A women in her twenties is a young women. Usually we call the 14 - 18 year old Teenagers. Adults they become when they turn 18.


Who is "we"? The Dept of Politically Correct Wimmin of a Certain Age?

[blue rider]

NOW you're talkin':clap:

This thread is rife with non facts, I'm sure more can be added though...


What non facts?

The non fact of the Police stating no complaint was laid, and then later admitting that indeed complaints were laid?


The non fact that the Police knew about the FB Page and did nothing?


The non fact that the Police did absolutly nothing to warn potential victims of these guys?
The non Fact that these guys run around saying that the Police can do what they want, they can't unrape the girl?

The police might not be able to prosecute these guys due to lack of evidence, but that does not mean that they did a good job.

http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/image/jpg/201345/cartoo1.jpg


The police fucked up, badly. I guess writing tickets for missing WOF, or being 3 kms over the speed limit is easier and less stressful.

[Oscar]

I don't give a shit how you refer to us female types. Honestly, it matters not to me. I love being referred to as a Gal, in fact that one gives me goose bumps. I am a woman, grown, mature and really confident in who I am.

You however seem to have an issue with identifying the term to describe 13 year old children of the female sex. Actually clarify for me if you can, when a "girl" becomes a "young woman"? What defines that?

I am so confused.

Yes, you are.
You really shouldn't get involved half way through an argument.
In fact it's your fellow Doris that has a problem with the nomenclature (see her rather long and pompous definition of girls to wimmins, earlier), not me.

The only confusion stems from that fact that when the offence took place the "girls" were 13-15, and those "young ladies" (I checked, that's how the local Girls High refers to them) and now 15-17.

[Mom]

whats your position on lass, or wee lass

Being Scots by parentage, a wee (lass)ie, is a little girl, and a (lass)ie, is a girl. Stop trying to be smart!

[oneofsix]

The police fucked up, badly. I guess writing tickets for missing WOF, or being 3 kms over the speed limit is easier and less stressful.

The police have a record of fucking up any serious investigation and anyhow they cost money whereas tickets for WOF and more than 4 k over the limit are govt revenue earners, must keep ones perceived masters happy.

[Oscar]

The police have a record of fucking up any serious investigation and anyhow they cost money whereas tickets for WOF and more than 4 k over the limit are govt revenue earners, must keep ones perceived masters happy.

On their recent record, they should have had someone innocent fitted up for this and inside by now.

[Mom]

The only confusion stems from that fact that when the offence took place the "girls" were 13-15, and those "young ladies" (I checked, that's how the local Girls High refers to them) and now 15-17.

And the alleged rapes took place when they were????


GIRLS!

[Oscar]

And the alleged rapes took place when they were????


GIRLS!

...and the interview with Radio Live took place when they were....?

Actually, if you go back and read the post the other Doris is whinging about, you'll see I called them: young GIRLS!:facepalm::facepalm:

[oneofsix]

On their recent record, they should have had someone innocent fitted up for this and inside by now.

No, on their record the fit up only comes after pressure to act, I therefore nominate ... you? :lol:

[Oscar]

No, on their record the fit up only comes after pressure to act, I therefore nominate ... you? :lol:

I don't have a suitable Cardy to wear.

[Winston001]

You see it is not the victims responsibility to prevent rape. It is up to rapists not to rape.

And that in a nutshell is exactly right. Good post.

[oneofsix]

I don't have a suitable Cardy to wear.

Don't need one, Arthur didn't have one either.

[oneofsix]

And that in a nutshell is exactly right. Good post.

yes it was very good however it did miss the point that when they do rape it is up to the rest of us to support their victim and act against them and this is where the police failed their true masters.

[blue rider]

Except that they had. Four of them had come forward in 2011 and 2012. Four of them. Three were 13, one 15. One had made a full and formal complaint.

The clear impression is not of a police force with tied hands, but sitting on them. Or worse.

The manner by which all of this has emerged leaves the stench of a cover-up. Yesterday, a search warrant was issued. As a nation bangs its head on the desk, the screaming question is this: why weren't the alleged offenders' computers and phones seized years ago? Why weren't warrants for surveillance sought and executed?

A couple of days ago, it might have been possible to accept police assurances that the investigation was unaffected by the fact that the son of a police officer was linked to the predatory gang. Today, it seems naive to take that at face value.

The 13-year-old who gave the recorded statement in 2011, what is more, told 3News that she was "asked a lot of questions about what I was wearing, and I went out in a skirt". That "they said that I didn't have enough evidence to show, because I went out in clothes that were pretty much asking for it".

This horrible week has underlined just how heavily our culture loads the dice against rape victims. One in four females and one in eight males in New Zealand are likely to be subjected to sexual abuse at some point in their lives. Less than 10 per cent of those make a complaint. The proportion is lower among young people. Of those that do go forward, a minority of cases result in prosecution.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11153341

[Winston001]

Girls are children. 13 year olds are still children FFS!

Totally agree and well said.




Girls are not wise to the ways of ugly, predative males, girls are naïve. Some girls with a lack of parental support or under peer pressure can find themselves in situations they don't know how to deal with. Never, ever, should some guy, get her drunk and have sex with her, let alone him and his mates.

Filming that is beyond what is acceptable under any circumstances. Taking it to a new and utterly degrading level by boasting about what they have done online, a place that is their "community" is repugnant!

The moral compass of our society is screw loose and declining. How the fuck can this ever be considered ok? Its not!

Absolutely right.

The problem Anne is that our community is very relaxed with respect to sexual intercourse. All you need to do is flick through a few threads on KB to see that.

Sexual contact is now regarded as a normal activity even when you don't really care about the other person. The most intimate connection you can have with another person is reduced to the one night stand, having a good time, partying on, and guys and girls who don't join in are made to feel inadequate.

So is it surprising that some young men turn sexual intercourse into a sport? And skite about it on Facebook? For them its a natural progression from what everyone on the tv shows are doing and whats wrong with it? The girls know the score (but of course they don't really) and they wanted to get drunk and do it with us anyway. What's the problem?

Sad sad sad.

[mashman]

No, on their record the fit up only comes after pressure to act, I therefore nominate ... you? :lol:

Seconded.


I don't have a suitable Cardy to wear.

I'll buy you a Cardy of your choosing... maybe 2.

[jonbuoy]

You see it is not the victims responsibility to prevent rape. It is up to rapists not to rape.

Sorry I disagree to some extent - yes in a perfect world a girl or woman should be able to wear a miniskirt and crop top and wobble around the streets carrying her high heels on her own at 3am or get so drunk she blacks out at a party in perfect safety. Just as I should be able to stagger through the dodgiest part of town with my wallet half hanging out of my back pocket at 3am in perfect safety.

This isn´t a perfect world and in either situation common sense says both actions are either naive or stupid. You have to help protect yourself and not rely on the fact that 90% of people wouldn´t do anything to harm you in either scenario.

[Brett]

Will prob get a lot of shit for this comment...but IMO a lot of the 'issues' we have today with regards to the youth attitudes towards sex stem from porn. It is pervasive and expectation and standard altering. Young boys and girls are exposed to too much, too early. Even for adults I personally don't think that it is that healthy. I'm not saying porn causes rape, what I am saying though is that it erodes sex to being another mindless act when in fact it is a very emotional act with long reaching implications.

[Akzle]

Will prob get a lot of shit for this comment...but IMO a lot of the 'issues' we have today with regards to the youth attitudes towards sex stem from porn. It is pervasive and expectation and standard altering. Young boys and girls are exposed to too much, too early. Even for adults I personally don't think that it is that healthy. I'm not saying porn causes rape, what I am saying though is that it erodes sex to being another mindless act when in fact it is a very emotional act with long reaching implications.

as much as im not denying its negative ramifications, i think the (white, jew controlled) world has bigger problems.

An idea thats been rolling round the back of my head, is that young girls (12-17) are the future of the species.
Young men have had their turn, old men have had their turn, jews have had their turn. The next major societal change will be from the kids.

But hey, its 2013 yo, hooker is a legit occupation, discipline is the (ad hoc) job of the state, not parents, she'll be sweet! Get with the times geezer

[Scuba_Steve]

Will prob get a lot of shit for this comment...but IMO a lot of the 'issues' we have today with regards to the youth attitudes towards sex stem from porn. It is pervasive and expectation and standard altering. Young boys and girls are exposed to too much, too early. Even for adults I personally don't think that it is that healthy. I'm not saying porn causes rape, what I am saying though is that it erodes sex to being another mindless act when in fact it is a very emotional act with long reaching implications.

Porn? No, maybee you should watch some TV. Rihanna, beyonce, beiber, miley, home & away, paris, the oc etc etc theres ya problem, not no porn tween entertainment thats the problem

[mashman]

Will prob get a lot of shit for this comment...but IMO a lot of the 'issues' we have today with regards to the youth attitudes towards sex stem from porn. It is pervasive and expectation and standard altering. Young boys and girls are exposed to too much, too early. Even for adults I personally don't think that it is that healthy. I'm not saying porn causes rape, what I am saying though is that it erodes sex to being another mindless act when in fact it is a very emotional act with long reaching implications.

Plenty of people have fucked for fun over the millennia and people were being raped and sexually mistreated before porn. Maybe we should spend a little more time on educating our children on how to be human instead of R, R and R... we'd get better results and R, R and R can be learned at any age, it's harder to learn how to become human with the shite that's poured into our heads from day 1.

[mashman]

Sorry I disagree to some extent - yes in a perfect world a girl or woman should be able to wear a miniskirt and crop top and wobble around the streets carrying her high heels on her own at 3am or get so drunk she blacks out at a party in perfect safety. Just as I should be able to stagger through the dodgiest part of town with my wallet half hanging out of my back pocket at 3am in perfect safety.

This isn´t a perfect world and in either situation common sense says both actions are either naive or stupid. You have to help protect yourself and not rely on the fact that 90% of people wouldn´t do anything to harm you in either scenario.

True, we do have to look out for ourselves as cooperation is not the norm of society.

Naive or stupid? I think not, as the acts you describe happen in plenty of other circumstances and in the vast majority of cases never happen at all under the same circumstances. It's the cunts of the world who make them happen. You can't protect yourself against that, especially if you have been drugged etc... What would you suggest? Stay at home?

[Mom]

Sad sad sad.

I managed to parent 3 kids to adulthood. The most important thing I instilled in them was self respect, the knowing that they deserve to be treated with respect, and they in turn should respect others. The sex talks always included the talk about first time sex, and how it should be special. They were told they should it should take place somewhere nice, and it should be a very special time as you only get one go at the first time. No quick fuck in the back seat of a car. It applied to both my daughters and my son. The message was a clear one.

I do wonder if access to the internet and porn and the like has really done a lot of damage and skewed the thinking on what is normal and what is not.

[Zedder]

True, we do have to look out for ourselves as cooperation is not the norm of society.

Naive or stupid? I think not, as the acts you describe happen in plenty of other circumstances and in the vast majority of cases never happen at all under the same circumstances. It's the cunts of the world who make them happen. You can't protect yourself against that, especially if you have been drugged etc... What would you suggest? Stay at home?

And yet, despite the "cunts" most people survive the "danger years". Good parenting, good and sensible choices, wanting to learn, to better themselves etc all these factors work.

[mashman]

And yet, despite the "cunts" most people survive the "danger years". Good parenting, good and sensible choices, wanting to learn, to better themselves etc all these factors work.

True. Although good parenting isn't necessarily a given. It's a great start, but even those with good parents do bad things :innocent:

[jonbuoy]

True, we do have to look out for ourselves as cooperation is not the norm of society.

Naive or stupid? I think not, as the acts you describe happen in plenty of other circumstances and in the vast majority of cases never happen at all under the same circumstances. It's the cunts of the world who make them happen. You can't protect yourself against that, especially if you have been drugged etc... What would you suggest? Stay at home?

Nope just be aware and try and make your kids aware. What would you say to your 13 year old daughter if she wanted to walk home late at night on her own from a party? Would you advise against her getting into a car with two older guys and going back to their place?

[FROSTY]

I have to ask a simple question. What were 13 year old girls doing out at night in a situation where they COULD be raped ?
These are CHILDREN for gosh sakes. Their parents need holding to account.

I'm Not saying for a second that the guys should have done what they say they did Im saying some parental responsibility is needed on the part of the girls parents.

[bluninja]

I have to ask a simple question. What were 13 year old girls doing out at night in a situation where they COULD be raped ?
These are CHILDREN for gosh sakes. Their parents need holding to account.



Maybe they were at a CYFS home where they could abscond on a regular basis :eek5: perhaps they wait till their parents have gone to bed and are fast asleep and then sneak out. Some parents go above and beyond to keep their children safe, (and others safe from their kids) and their kids still find ways to do these things. If parents are not allowed to physically restrain them, lock them securely in their room, or kill the low lives supplying them with drugs and alcohol then what is there to hold to account?

[Zedder]

True. Although good parenting isn't necessarily a given. It's a great start, but even those with good parents do bad things :innocent:

I didn't write it always works.

Of course kids from good parenting environments do bad things, it's all part of testing boundaries and becoming who we are.

Other mechanisms are in place which are meant to stop things getting really bad though.

[mashman]

Nope just be aware and try and make your kids aware. What would you say to your 13 year old daughter if she wanted to walk home late at night on her own from a party? Would you advise against her getting into a car with two older guys and going back to their place?

What I advise my kids to do and what they actually do could well be 2 entirely different things. It will be their choice at that moment in time.

[mashman]

I didn't write it always works.

Of course kids from good parenting environments do bad things, it's all part of testing boundaries and becoming who we are.

Other mechanisms are in place which are meant to stop things getting really bad though.

I didn't say you did.

Hell yeah, I mean, I'll beat that out of my kids, ach, I mean, erm, what, shit.

So you mean the law?

[Zedder]

I didn't say you did.

Hell yeah, I mean, I'll beat that out of my kids, ach, I mean, erm, what, shit.

So you mean the law?

Have a think about it, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

[jonbuoy]

What I advise my kids to do and what they actually do could well be 2 entirely different things. It will be their choice at that moment in time.

All you can do is hope they never put themselves into that situation in the first place.

[mashman]

Have a think about it, I'm off for a motorbike ride.

You could just tell me as I'm off out to help a man with his wood.


All you can do is hope they never put themselves into that situation in the first place.

They/We are always in those situations. Call it wrong time wrong place if you like, but we are always in those situations, fortunately at the right place at the right time for the greater percentage of life... ommmmmmmmm

[Mom]

Maybe they were at a CYFS home where they could abscond on a regular basis :eek5: perhaps they wait till their parents have gone to bed and are fast asleep and then sneak out. Some parents go above and beyond to keep their children safe, (and others safe from their kids) and their kids still find ways to do these things. If parents are not allowed to physically restrain them, lock them securely in their room, or kill the low lives supplying them with drugs and alcohol then what is there to hold to account?

Perhaps it happened during the day even.

[Smifffy]

Porn? No, maybee you should watch some TV. Rihanna, beyonce, beiber, miley, home & away, paris, the oc etc etc theres ya problem, not no porn tween entertainment thats the problem


I managed to parent 3 kids to adulthood. The most important thing I instilled in them was self respect, the knowing that they deserve to be treated with respect, and they in turn should respect others. The sex talks always included the talk about first time sex, and how it should be special. They were told they should it should take place somewhere nice, and it should be a very special time as you only get one go at the first time. No quick fuck in the back seat of a car. It applied to both my daughters and my son. The message was a clear one.

I do wonder if access to the internet and porn and the like has really done a lot of damage and skewed the thinking on what is normal and what is not.

Porn has always been around. I think it's more as SS says, with mainstream attention whores *ahem Miley etc* acting more like porn whores in order to get the attention and $$ they so desperately need. Certainly the access to the porn (and the drugs and alcohol) seems to be easier and easier at younger ages.

This all seems to be the utopia that the state and all of it's apparatus, from the PM, the police, WINZ, Education, Corrections (corrections - hah), even OSH (yeah worksafeNZ -wanksafe?) think we need. Do something really nasty, stupid, evil, and it's all someone else's fault.

[GrayWolf]

I agree witrh you - don't get me wrong, I'm certainly blaming the boys, but yes, what the hell were underaged teenager girls getting into that situation ?? Where were their families ??? ...

Sadly I have to agree, but? Yep there's always a but.. as a Parent of adult children, things have changed, many will say for the better (child abuse).. but the price of the improvement is that parents now have less 'rights' than the kids..... What can you do today if a child decides to climb out a window? (Apart from nail it shut).. if you catch 'em, manhandle them back indoors? and god forbid, if you redden their little arse for them? YOU as the parent are in the shit for either act.....

So people what price 'freedom'? How DO you control teenagers who decide to really act out??
My other question is one of Modern parenting practices.. as a child (even a school age teen) Bed was early, 7pm as a young' un, by 9,30 as a teen..... Yet I see kids of 11/12/13 hanging around various Station's, some going 'home' at 11/12pm..... Sorry they are KIDS, and should NOT be allowed out unsupervised at those times of day....

Roast Busters proves my point exactly.... out of control, en masse!

[FROSTY]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

[scumdog]

On their recent record, they should have had someone innocent fitted up for this and inside by now.

It was David Bain.....on the grassy mound...<_<

[pzkpfw]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

The reason we have a concept of underage sex is that we've decided that under a certain age, a person isn't really capable of giving informed consent.

That's why it's called "age of consent". http://www.consumer.org.nz/reports/young-people-and-the-law/ages-of-consent

So by definition, underage sex is rape *, because the underage person couldn't give consent; and it's partly to protect against predators. You don't think a 17 year old screwing a 13 year old is all that wrong? What about 18/12? What about 19/11? ...? Fact is: we have the laws as they are, and the boys must have known the laws. And given their boasting, they clearly knew they were doing something akin to what you'd say "dirty old men" do.

(* I'll admit to being less certain about cases where both parties are underage.)



(Geez, when I was 18, I was desperate for sex, and wouldn't have had many qualms about how I (consentingly) got it. But there's no way I would have slept with a 13 year old (let alone all that getting her drunk stuff). I'd have felt like a molester - and I'm sure anyone I knew would have thought that of me too. This stuff is not about "the same peer group". When I was in 7th form (and was 17), the 13 year olds at school already seemed like children. (Not that I was really as "grown up" as I thought I was at that age).)

[scumdog]

All you can do is hope they never put themselves into that situation in the first place.

But they do.

And then come crying when it happens to THEM.

'Cos teenagers NEVER think (that bits true!) that anything nasty will ever happen to them - it only happens to 'other people' - people they don't know...:wacko:

[Tazz]

(Geez, when I was 18, I was desperate for sex, and wouldn't have had many qualms about how I (consentingly) got it. But there's no way I would have slept with a 13 year old (let alone all that getting her drunk stuff). I'd have felt like a molester - and I'm sure anyone I knew would have thought that of me too. This stuff is not about "the same peer group". When I was in 7th form (and was 17), the 13 years olds at school already seemed like children. (Not that I was really as "grown up" as I thought I was at that age).)

Agree!

Even 17 to 15 is a big jump at that age.

TBH it is a shame they didn't have a better group of friends that look out for each other.

[mashman]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

Don't forget that they mentioned chloroform, or that if they told how they did it they'd end up in jail.

[mashman]

But they do.

And then come crying when it happens to THEM.

'Cos teenagers NEVER think (that bits true!) that anything nasty will ever happen to them - it only happens to 'other people' - people they don't know...:wacko:

I'll tell my kids that if they put themselves in that position and they're raped that the rape was legal. Thanks for the heads up.

[The Reibz]

I didn't choose the roastlife, the roastlife chose me

[Zedder]

[QUOTE=mashman;1130635617]You could just tell me as I'm off out to help a man with his wood.

I was on a schedule earlier too Masho.

Anyway, the Law you ask. No, if the Law gets involved it's already a fail.

The mechanism is about making kids accountable for their actions.

In a nutshell, from what I've read, heard etc by making kids accountable for their actions it builds their self control which in turn increases self-esteem. The more they control their lives, the better they feel about themselves.

Also, knowing good from bad developes conscience which is vital in stopping them going really bad.

[scumdog]

I'll tell my kids that if they put themselves in that position and they're raped that the rape was legal. Thanks for the heads up.

I don't know your kids - so I guess the could be that 'somebody else'.

Glad to help, chur!!

[mashman]

I was on a schedule earlier too Masho.

Anyway, the Law you ask. No, if the Law gets involved it's already a fail.

The mechanism is about making kids accountable for their actions.

In a nutshell, from what I've read, heard etc by making kids accountable for their actions it builds their self control which in turn increases self-esteem. The more they control their lives, the better they feel about themselves.

Also, knowing good from bad developes conscience which is vital in stopping them going really bad.

Well you should have ditched it and explained yourself.

True.

Have you met many kids? You tell them certain things are bad/wrong etc... and they see some other kid testing that boundary, then they too are going to test that boundary innit. We're talking about a lack of life experience and that's something you can't teach, you can educate it, but you can't teach it. So whilst I agree on a certain level, we're dealing with kids. I don't think locking them away is a good idea either, because they don't get to have the experience. To be honest I don't know many kids that have self-esteem issues, but fail to see how knowing right from wrong and judging what they do could have that much to do with it. I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, but I'd say it's more the interaction they have with adults that goes a larger way towards their self-esteem. I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing adults sigh and mumble under their breath, or post on an internet forum, that some 13 year old kid needs to grow up. Praps they should try to relate instead of expecting the kid to do all of the work.


I don't know your kids - so I guess the could be that 'somebody else'.

Glad to help, chur!!

Hopefully you'll never get to meet them in an official capacity.

[FROSTY]

PZ-Im looking at this with "old guy" and "dad" eyes. y lil baby gal is 13 years old.Fortunately for me she pretty much looks it.
But Ive seen a few of her freinds when they are off to the movies. They could pass for 17 with no qualms.
Yea its an age old story-Lots of 16-17 year old girls passing themselves off as 18 to get into clubs.Same story just younger age.

[FROSTY]

Don't forget that they mentioned chloroform, or that if they told how they did it they'd end up in jail.
Sorry Im not following the story. If true then they are in deep dooo doo. If its normal teenage boy BS and bravado they will be regretting their lies about now.
OR WILL THEY--as the situation stands theres no real fallout.
"suspended from school" big deal- its exam time now so most kids that age are on study leave

[Akzle]

OR WILL THEY--as the situation stands theres no real fallout.
"suspended from school" big deal- its exam time now so most kids that age are on study leave

the cops' son has had to leave the roastbusters group....
Terrible. Just terrible, these consequences.

[Zedder]

[QUOTE=mashman;1130635744]Well you should have ditched it and explained yourself.

True.

Have you met many kids? You tell them certain things are bad/wrong etc... and they see some other kid testing that boundary, then they too are going to test that boundary innit. We're talking about a lack of life experience and that's something you can't teach, you can educate it, but you can't teach it. So whilst I agree on a certain level, we're dealing with kids. I don't think locking them away is a good idea either, because they don't get to have the experience. To be honest I don't know many kids that have self-esteem issues, but fail to see how knowing right from wrong and judging what they do could have that much to do with it. I'm not saying it has nothing to do with it, but I'd say it's more the interaction they have with adults that goes a larger way towards their self-esteem. I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing adults sigh and mumble under their breath, or post on an internet forum, that some 13 year old kid needs to grow up. Praps they should try to relate instead of expecting the kid to do all of the work.

My apologies for having a life apart from KB...

Yep, I've met a few kids even did some relief lecturing for a while. What an eye opener that was and yes there were self esteem issues aplenty even with kids from supposedly well to do supportive backgrounds.

As far as the interaction with adults goes, the first point of contact is of course with parents so we're back to that being the critical factor. Role models play a part as well and these may well not be parents for one reason or another.

[Mom]

Somewhat sensitive subject.
The nasty word "RAPE" being bandied around by the media. Are we talking actual rape or underage sex?
I get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex.
The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group.
Yes getting a person of any age drunk/stoned to have sex is pretty low but why muddy the water with the age issue?

Frosty, these young fucks, bragged about plying 13y/old girls alcohol or what have you, and having group sex with them.

If you are under the age of consent, then no matter if you are a boy or a girl, the person you have sex with, potentially is up for a charge of Rape.

Underage sex is RAPE! The law defines it.

You are defining the problem that we have in todays society!

In your eyes, a young 16-17 year old boy, can have sex with an underage girl 13-14 years of age? It is just underage sex? Good luck with that when your little girl hits 13!

Reading your post again..." YOU get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex."

However, You seem to be condoning the behaviour of these wankers, because they are 16-17 year olds. "The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group."

Why "muddy the water with age"!?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!

[jonbuoy]

Thinking back to school days - A lot of girls wanted older boyfriends- girls mature quicker than boys at that age so mentally older guys were more on their level. Add the kudos of "my boyfriend drives" or can buy cigarettes and booze. Not saying all girls but a lot of them did. A 15 year old girl having a boyfriend of 17 is hardly worthy of criminal charges is it?

[scumdog]

Hopefully you'll never get to meet them in an official capacity.

Ditto.

Life brings enough problems without diving head-first onto avoidable ones.:yes:

[scumdog]

Thinking back to school days - A lot of girls wanted older boyfriends- girls mature quicker than boys at that age so mentally older guys were more on their level. Add the kudos of "my boyfriend drives" or can buy cigarettes and booze. Not saying all girls but a lot of them did. A 15 year old girl having a boyfriend of 17 is hardly worthy of criminal charges is it?

Yeah, I know of a 16 year old who had a 20 year old boyfriend...she's now Mrs Scumdog.

I guess her being 16 made all the difference.

[Laava]

Pics or it didn,t happen.

[Mom]

A 15 year old girl having a boyfriend of 17 is hardly worthy of criminal charges is it?

Perhaps not. Unless of course he lets his mates root her as well. Then videos it, and posts it online with commentary that demeans his 15 year old "girl friend".

Lets make sure we all know and understand the situation that has happened here. These are young guys, that have NO respect for women. They have boasted online about what they have done. This is not a 17 year old boy, having consensual sex with his 15 year old girl friend.

No matter the age of the female involved, if she is drunk/stoned/whatever, unable to make informed decisions, can not consent and a bloke roots her, that is RAPE if she complains, and certainly RAPE if she is under the age of consent, no matter what!

Call it how you like. I am actually horrified that some of you seem to think that is ok! FUCK OFF!

[Mom]

I guess her being 16 made all the difference.

16 is the new drunk 13 year old then eh?

And it was all filmed and broadcast on the web for all and sundry to view.

You actually make me feel sick!

[jonbuoy]

16 is the new drunk 13 year old then eh?

And it was all filmed and broadcast on the web for all and sundry to view.

You actually make me feel sick!

No one thinks what they are accused of was OK. It could have been a 21 year old girl and a group of 21 year old guys and it still wouldn't be ok. It could have been a group of 13 year old guys "plying" another 13 year old girl with booze and then posting the results up on the Internet. The guys shouldn't have given the girls booze and the girls shouldn't have drunk it in the first place.

Mom - if you had a young daughter and she was caught drinking with a bunch of older guys I'm sure you would give her a bollocking and tell her it's stupid and risky behaviour. Or are you telling us you would think its ok because guys shouldn't take advantage of young/drunk girls in the first place?

[Madness]

Must be that time of the month.

[scumdog]

You actually make me feel sick!


No I don't Mum - you've taken what I said wrongly, out of context.

I was only pointing out a larger age gap in my case compared to an example mentioned by another poster.

[rustyrobot]

The guys shouldn't have given the girls booze and the girls shouldn't have drunk it in the first place.


I don't know. What if it was a bunch of 17/18 year old guys getting 13/15 year old guys drunk and then raping them. No one would be blaming the young guys for drinking and say "it's their fault they should have know better", but for some reason girls/women have to carry the blame for the older guys bad behaviour.

I think that some of what is making lots of people defensive in this case is that it makes them have to examine some of their own (previous) behaviour in a different light, and that is uncomfortable.

[The Reibz]

Must be that time of the month.

Redwingz-busters

[jonbuoy]

I don't know. What if it was a bunch of 17/18 year old guys getting 13/15 year old guys drunk and then raping them. No one would be blaming the young guys for drinking and say "it's their fault they should have know better", but for some reason girls/women have to carry the blame for the older guys bad behaviour.

I think that some of what is making lots of people defensive in this case is that it makes them have to examine some of their own (previous) behaviour in a different light, and that is uncomfortable.

Thats a good point - but were the girls physically pinned down and raped or fully unconscious at the time? Did things just go further than they wanted to - ie they found the guys attractive in the first instance but didn't have any intentions of sleeping with them and had so much to drink they lost all their inhibitions/self control? Were they physically forced to drink the alcohol?

If it was a straight guy and a gay guy there is no amount of alcohol that will make them go along with it.

Are these girls traumatised from the events or because it ended up being plastered all over the Internet?

[FROSTY]

Frosty, these young fucks, bragged about plying 13y/old girls alcohol or what have you, and having group sex with them.

If you are under the age of consent, then no matter if you are a boy or a girl, the person you have sex with, potentially is up for a charge of Rape.

Underage sex is RAPE! The law defines it.

You are defining the problem that we have in todays society!

In your eyes, a young 16-17 year old boy, can have sex with an underage girl 13-14 years of age? It is just underage sex? Good luck with that when your little girl hits 13!

Reading your post again..." YOU get it and support that these girls are 13-15 years old so shouldn't be having sex."

However, You seem to be condoning the behaviour of these wankers, because they are 16-17 year olds. "The boys concerned equally are 16-17 year olds. so we aren't talking dirty old men here we are talking the same peer group."

Why "muddy the water with age"!?

ARE YOU SERIOUS?!
YOU mom have the wrong end of the stick.
Im saying that underage sex is one thing and rape is something different.

Sex between a couple in a loving relationship if one is under the age of 16 is underage sex in my view.
Allowing we are talking a year or two age gap.

Taking anyone out (regardless of age) drugging them with booze or any other drug to get sex is rape.



Incidently -I do think there is a lot of BS that got spouted by those young idiots. They wanted their 5 minutres of fame

paint me a cynic --but what bit of legislation got snuck past the kiwi public whilst we were focussed on this??

Oh amd Mom---scarey innit?--My girl IS 13 -the oldest lad is now 17 and baby bikie is 14.

[Winston001]

I managed to parent 3 kids to adulthood. The most important thing I instilled in them was self respect, the knowing that they deserve to be treated with respect, and they in turn should respect others.

The sex talks always included the talk about first time sex, and how it should be special. They were told they should it should take place somewhere nice, and it should be a very special time as you only get one go at the first time. No quick fuck in the back seat of a car.



Exactly. Bling sent.

There are two slightly different issues here which some posters have highlighted.

Firstly, it is unlawful to have sexual intercourse or any sexual connection with a child under the age of 16. Even if the other person is under 16 themselves. This is a no-go area.

Secondly, stupifying a girl/woman with alcohol or drugs means she cannot knowingly consent to a sexual act. Age is irrelevant. Sexual intercourse in those circumstances is rape even if she is 40+ years old. There is no lawful consent.

Yes it happens with adults and the result is self-loathing, feeling awful but no complaint is made. That still does not make it right and women do report rape sometimes. The problem for the police is if both parties were drunk and can't remember much, prosecution is impossible.

[jonbuoy]

Exactly. Bling sent.

There are two slightly different issues here which some posters have highlighted.

Firstly, it is unlawful to have sexual intercourse or any sexual connection with a child under the age of 16. Even if the other person is under 16 themselves. This is a no-go area.

Secondly, stupifying a girl/woman with alcohol or drugs means she cannot knowingly consent to a sexual act. Age is irrelevant. Sexual intercourse in those circumstances is rape even if she is 40+ years old. There is no lawful consent.

Yes it happens with adults and the result is self-loathing, feeling awful but no complaint is made. That still does not make it right and women do report rape sometimes. The problem for the police is if both parties were drunk and can't remember much, prosecution is impossible.

And deliberately stupefying is different to both being so drunk you can barely remember what happened the night before.

Its not unheard of for a reasonably sober girl to take home a guy she has had her eye on for a while and sleep with him even though he´s blind drunk and can barely remember anything the next day.

[jonbuoy]

Exactly. Bling sent.

There are two slightly different issues here which some posters have highlighted.

Firstly, it is unlawful to have sexual intercourse or any sexual connection with a child under the age of 16. Even if the other person is under 16 themselves. This is a no-go area.

Secondly, stupifying a girl/woman with alcohol or drugs means she cannot knowingly consent to a sexual act. Age is irrelevant. Sexual intercourse in those circumstances is rape even if she is 40+ years old. There is no lawful consent.

Yes it happens with adults and the result is self-loathing, feeling awful but no complaint is made. That still does not make it right and women do report rape sometimes. The problem for the police is if both parties were drunk and can't remember much, prosecution is impossible.

Were you over 16 when you lost your virginity?

[Winston001]

And deliberately stupefying is different to both being so drunk you can barely remember what happened the night before.


Beg to disagree although I don't want to get into debating words here. The central issue is too fundamental to argue about language.

Stupifying in law is regarded as the offence of administering drugs to a woman with intent to stupefy her ie. remove her ability for self-control. It stems from the Latin - be struck senseless. Alcohol is a drug just as much as retalin or chloroform.

So yes, being drunk is to be stupifyed and many of us have woken up wondering why we said that to the boss or went for a quick bike ride at night or got into a fight etc etc.

The thing is, a 17yr old girl who is drunk is no match for a 17yr randy guy who is drunk. If guys think this is normal behavior - a sporting challenge (which the FB page indicates) then we as a community have a problem.

[jonbuoy]

Beg to disagree although I don't want to get into debating words here. The central issue is too fundamental to argue about language.

Stupifying in law is regarded as the offence of administering drugs to a woman with intent to stupefy her ie. remove her ability for self-control. It stems from the Latin - be struck senseless. Alcohol is a drug just as much as retalin or chloroform.

So yes, being drunk is to be stupifyed and many of us have woken up wondering why we said that to the boss or went for a quick bike ride at night or got into a fight etc etc.

The thing is, a 17yr old girl who is drunk is no match for a 17yr randy guy who is drunk. If guys think this is normal behavior - a sporting challenge (which the FB page indicates) then we as a community have a problem.

Even when I was at school if a girl lost her virginity to a boy it wasn't uncommon for a boy to brag and tell his mates what a great time he had and how easy she was so I don´t think that's anything new. But there is a difference between deliberately getting someone drunk purely to have sex with them and just drinking away together and then one thing leads to another.

Those guys shouldn´t have been drinking with those girls, those girls should not have been drinking with those guys. The guys are more in the wrong than the girls but the girls put themselves in a vulnerable position. Unless they were physically forced to get in the car and drink the alcohol?

[Winston001]

The guys are more in the wrong than the girls but the girls put themselves in a vulnerable position. Unless they were physically forced to get in the car and drink the alcohol?

Yeah understood but you do realise that is the same argument put forward by John Tamahere and Willie Jackson on their radio show? The result - about 20 major advertisers withdrew their money and their support. Classic Radio must be spewing.

Doesn't that show that the mainstream view is that young girls should not be taken advantage of? No matter how drunk, no matter their age. Do you really think vulnerable girls should be molested and videoed?

[jonbuoy]

Yeah understood but you do realise that is the same argument put forward by John Tamahere and Willie Jackson on their radio show? The result - about 20 major advertisers withdrew their money and their support. Classic Radio must be spewing.

Doesn't that show that the mainstream view is that young girls should not be taken advantage of? No matter how drunk, no matter their age. Do you really think vulnerable girls should be molested and videoed?

No of course not - I should be able to go out and leave my windows open and my front door unlocked, I should be able to leave my keys in my car and not worry about it being stolen. Young girls should be able to hang around and drink with older boys without being molested. Would you be happy about your daughter drinking that much at that age full stop? Its a horrible thing that's happened but people let the severity and nature of the crime cloud their logic.

[Winston001]

Would you be happy about your daughter drinking that much at that age full stop? Its a horrible thing that's happened but people let the severity and nature of the crime cloud their logic.

Oh well, I do have a 16yr daughter but I'm confident she would never get into such a situation. As Mom said earlier you teach children about self respect and being aware of dangers.

[jonbuoy]

Oh well, I do have a 16yr daughter but I'm confident she would never get into such a situation. As Mom said earlier you teach children about self respect and being aware of dangers.

I have a 16.5 year old stepdaughter I think we have made her aware enough of the dangers of loosing control when drinking, and dangers of drink spiking. I hope so anyway.

[mashman]

Those guys shouldn´t have been drinking with those girls, those girls should not have been drinking with those guys. The guys are more in the wrong than the girls but the girls put themselves in a vulnerable position. Unless they were physically forced to get in the car and drink the alcohol?

If the boys hadn't have been where the girls where, the girls would have been fine. Getting in a car, drinking, getting absolutely wasted does not give a person a license to rape. The girls where there getting pissed with boys, it happens, the boys where there to get the girls pissed with the intention of raping them. Do you think the boys opening gambit would be, if you get in the car with us, that's consent for us to rape you? And if it was, would the girls still get in the car. If the girls had have stripped naked and were grinding all over the guys, touching them suggestively etc... it is still not consent. The situation/circumstances are irrelevant.

[jonbuoy]

If the boys hadn't have been where the girls where, the girls would have been fine.

Exactly my point.

[Clockwork]

I've been reading this thread (but not really following the media story) from what I can tell this has been going on for a couple of years and no one is entirely clear when the 13 year olds were molested but I believe I heard that at least one of them talked to the Police about it two years ago.

What no one else seems to have observed here is that the "boys" themselves would have been two years younger, the age differences would be significantly less and these boys would/are still legally children themselves.

On another note, if I drink and choose to drive I'm expected to take full responsibility for my actions and choices while drunk so why do some folk here seem to think that if a woman gets intoxicated then she is not capable of consenting to sex so can later call it rape if she regrets her actions once she's sobered up?

[Flip]

When they get to prison its them who will be roasted.

Have you seen the latest media crap.........

Sin City.

[Laava]

Who you gonna call?