F1 and F2 or Superbike and Supersport for Nationals

[Billy]

As the title suggests,


Which and Why ???

[budda]

As the title suggests,


Which and Why ???

YOU are a naughty, naughty boy ..........

[steveyb]

IMO, Superbike and Supersport.
They are what the modern world understands as class titles and structures.
The actual rules behind them need only be known by competitors.
They should be Superbike and Supersport rules, but in NZ would best be in keeping with Superstock rules I would imagine. Clearly full-on Superbike and Supersport rules would lead to some budget competition, while more Superstock like rules make team/rider competition more relevant.

If the titles F1 and F2 were used they would lose all relevancy in the greater marketplace.
Those 'classes' really should be left for club championships to allow and encourage one-offs and older bikes a place to be used.

We must also make a real concerted effort to use the title New Zealand Superbike Championship (NZSBK) only.
There should be no mention of Motorcycle Road Racing , road racing or anything else like that. All of that dilutes the concept and brand and dilutes the differentiation between other sports (cycling and running both have road racing championships). I continue to dispair when even official communications use NZ Road Racing Champs etc.

My 2c worth.

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

[Billy]

IMO, Superbike and Supersport.
They are what the modern world understands as class titles and structures.
The actual rules behind them need only be known by competitors.
They should be Superbike and Supersport rules, but in NZ would best be in keeping with Superstock rules I would imagine. Clearly full-on Superbike and Supersport rules would lead to some budget competition, while more Superstock like rules make team/rider competition more relevant.

If the titles F1 and F2 were used they would lose all relevancy in the greater marketplace.
Those 'classes' really should be left for club championships to allow and encourage one-offs and older bikes a place to be used.

We must also make a real concerted effort to use the title New Zealand Superbike Championship (NZSBK) only.
There should be no mention of Motorcycle Road Racing , road racing or anything else like that. All of that dilutes the concept and brand and dilutes the differentiation between other sports (cycling and running both have road racing championships). I continue to dispair when even official communications use NZ Road Racing Champs etc.

My 2c worth.

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

Some good points....BUT,

Superstock is NOT gonna happen in the immediate future,As the ONLY distributor that puts any real money into our sport has rejected it on numerous occassions,As have several others.

In hindsight,I could have worded the title a little better,In effect it's the rules I was referring to,My bad,By restricting it to homologated models only,It also limits things we can do in other areas and bear in mind the abovementioned distributor has chosen to put their funds into a series that runs F1/2 as opposed to the Nationals,I can tell you all categorically now,There is NO naming rights sponsor for NZSBK 2014,In fact there is very little support at all,By changing the rules back to F1/2 we can immediately link up with the Suzuki series and make it better for both parties.

In regard to the name of the championship,That is what is in the rulebook and that as far as I am aware is how the board want it,I could be wrong,Propose a rulechange and I'll put it up on the website and see here it goes.Also the ONLY championships recognised in NZ and anywhere else for that matter are those granted a permit with Championship status,ALL the rest are just clubman series and should be referred to as such.

[JayRacer37]

IMO, Superbike and Supersport.
They are what the modern world understands as class titles and structures.
The actual rules behind them need only be known by competitors.
They should be Superbike and Supersport rules, but in NZ would best be in keeping with Superstock rules I would imagine. Clearly full-on Superbike and Supersport rules would lead to some budget competition, while more Superstock like rules make team/rider competition more relevant.

If the titles F1 and F2 were used they would lose all relevancy in the greater marketplace.
Those 'classes' really should be left for club championships to allow and encourage one-offs and older bikes a place to be used.

We must also make a real concerted effort to use the title New Zealand Superbike Championship (NZSBK) only.
There should be no mention of Motorcycle Road Racing , road racing or anything else like that. All of that dilutes the concept and brand and dilutes the differentiation between other sports (cycling and running both have road racing championships). I continue to dispair when even official communications use NZ Road Racing Champs etc.

My 2c worth.

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments

100% agree. Nuff said.

[Mental Trousers]

In hindsight,I could have worded the title a little better,In effect it's the rules I was referring to,My bad

What do you want the title changed to?

I've always said the rules should be


stock engine internals (possibly even officially sealed engines if necessary)
everything else can be modified or replaced

Everyone else in the world uses the names Superbike and Supersport no matter what their rules are.

[steveyb]

Ah, Ok, you are thinking about perhaps liberalising the rules a bit more? i.e. opening up the mods that can be made so that machines can be built to fit into NZSBK, Tri-Series and all club series.

There is a hint of tail wagging the dog in that, but see below to see that I am not opposed to that if the reasons are robust.

If this is so, I would offer what I have gathered over the past few years listening to the hand-wringers and others about how to improve participation especially in those classes.

The benefits to opening up the rules to allow more modifications towards a more F1/F2 style philosophy, (recalling that this is a summary of the arguments I have heard, not all my own opinion) are:
that it will encourage the distributors to produce better and better machinery for the best riders to display their talents. We absolutely need the distributors involvement, any other talk is poppycock;
that it will allow for more innovation by teams and riders in terms of what mods they make and how they make them;
that it will bring our rules closer in line with other jurisdictions around the world (although this may change in the next few years with the rise of the EVO class concepts perhaps??);
that it will allow some future proofing of machines so that they might start life with mods that can be upgraded as time and new tech comes along therefore not necessarily needing replacing each second year or whatever.

Downsides as I have gathered:
that budgets to buy parts and make mods mean that only well funded teams and riders can compete;
that only riders and teams with the know how can compete;
that only distributor teams have access to the real McCoy stuff thereby disadvantaging the privateers;

In my opinion the downsides as presented (and I may have missed some) all smack of socialist mediocracy in that we should create a system where everyone can have a go and everyone can win. I don't ascribe to that philosophy and believe that sport is a meritocracy where the best get the best and everyone else strives to become the best one way or another. Riders on the best bikes either buy the rides or earn them. The former is just life, the latter is what sport is.

My comment in first post was assuming some future movement around the world towards a more Superstock type treatment of rules, such as what we will see in World Superbike and BSB with the new EVO concepts. I suspect however, that if we wish to remain in the Production bike space here in NZ, even the most modified type rules we might comfortably establish would likely end up somewhere near that level of specification anyway. I believe that these rules are not being established to dumb down those championships, just to make them more affordable for more competitors. In the end, the best will still be the best and will still get the best out of the rules and the technologies.

If on the other hand, we decide to move to an F1/F2 space into the future, then we will need to devise rules for all sorts of special types of machines that may wish to compete and not just production bikes. I would think that creating F1/F2 rules to allow Production Superbikes etc the ability to use special cams, ECU's quickshifters and carbon wheels is not really F1/F2 is it. Full F1/F2 would mean Brittons, Rotaries, 500 2-strokes perhaps, carbon frames, special fuels perhaps, turbos etc etc. While purists may well think that is the way to go, I doubt that it would be an easy sell in the sport/industry/marketplace, for whatever value that might have (see below).

As for the lack of a naming rights sponsor, that is quite a sad state of affairs and one I guess that there is no easy fix for, especially at this late date. Although I am sure plenty will be able to state why that is the case without offering a solution.

To offer a lending hand in that direction Billy, if a sponsor were to want to underwrite the series, what level of commitment would they be required to come up with?

That must be 5c by now....

Cheers.

[mr bucketracer]

when it comes to 600s and prombly 1000s i think stock engines are the best 20k+cheaper this is nz !and why guys are running the higher end engines because classes are combinded and who could be the best rider out there could be running in the stocker class and look like a nobody!! . so why biff you money away ..we want to keep riders in the sport! .. this is only what i think..cheers time for another whisky i think

[Drew]

Tying the tri series and the nats together leads to less racing. I don't much like that.

[Skunk]

I personally like open rules.
The Formula rules were as open as you can get. Nearly impossible to cheat.
The biggest pocket always has the fastest bike. Whether you spend it on the dyno (Superbike) or the go-fast parts bin (Formula 1) doesn't matter.
Bigger fields mean better racing. Not everyone can afford a least than two year old bike. Not tying it to the latest bikes means we might get more entrants.
Good riders will be found even if they are on older gear.

We have
Superbike
Supersport
Superstock
Superlite
And some think that's good branding to Joe Public... I think there are too many Supers in there.

I think they'd understand
Formula 1
Formula 2
Formula 3
better.

One thing I've never understood is the fascination with what the rules are in other countries. We should be making rules that work here, with our riders, our supporters, our economy, our talents. Carve our own path instead of following others. Like Steve Roberts, Robert Holden, John Britten... If the distributors aren't supporting the 'race on Sunday buy on Monday' theory why should we stick to it?

Create on Sunday, patent on Monday.




If it ain't smokin' - it's broken.

[mr bucketracer]

I personally like open rules.
The Formula rules were as open as you can get. Nearly impossible to cheat.
The biggest pocket always has the fastest bike. Whether you spend it on the dyno (Superbike) or the go-fast parts bin (Formula 1) doesn't matter.
Bigger fields mean better racing. Not everyone can afford a least than two year old bike. Not tying it to the latest bikes means we might get more entrants.
Good riders will be found even if they are on older gear.

We have
Superbike
Supersport
Superstock
Superlite
And some think that's good branding to Joe Public... I think there are too many Supers in there.

I think they'd understand
Formula 1
Formula 2
Formula 3
better.

One thing I've never understood is the fascination with what the rules are in other countries. We should be making rules that work here, with our riders, our supporters, our economy, our talents. Carve our own path instead of following others. Like Steve Roberts, Robert Holden, John Britten... If the distributors aren't supporting the 'race on Sunday buy on Monday' theory why should we stick to it?

Create on Sunday, patent on Monday.




If it ain't smokin' - it's broken.tim gibbs just had a dyno at the track 2hp over and you lost your points , you did not want the bike on the dyno you lost your points .. easy... hard man but fair

[Skunk]

tim gibb just had a dyno at the track 2hp over and you lost your points , you did not want the bike on the dyno you lost your points .. easy... hard man but fair

It's not that easy. There is much that can be done within the rules of Superbike etc if you have the money. It wouldn't even work for straight out Production engines. You would have to have Production pipes and ignition systems. Boring...


If it ain't smokin' - it's broken.

[Drew]

tim gibbs just had a dyno at the track 2hp over and you lost your points , you did not want the bike on the dyno you lost your points .. easy... hard man but fairDoesn't seem fair at all to me.

Spending coin to get the absolute most out of a motor, within the rules, will get you more than two horses.

Balance/blue print a motor and fuel it to over rev, and you're out of points? Screw that.

[mr bucketracer]

Doesn't seem fair at all to me.

Spending coin to get the absolute most out of a motor, within the rules, will get you more than two horses.

Balance/blue print a motor and fuel it to over rev, and you're out of points? Screw that.l am talking about stock engines not ones played around with

[Billy]

l am talking about stock engines not ones played around with

I don't disagree with the idea,But you obviously didnt read my post above on that subject,Its NOT gonna happen as the distributors do not want it and as Steve has rightly pointed out We need their support.

[Drew]

l am talking about stock engines not ones played around withOh right. That's completely out of context in this thread then.

[Drew]

I don't disagree with the idea,But you obviously didnt read my post above on that subject,Its NOT gonna happen as the distributors do not want it and as Steve has rightly pointed out We need their support.It might be worth it for BMW to pony up some cash. If stockers were the call, they would decimate all I think.

[mr bucketracer]

I don't disagree with the idea,But you obviously didnt read my post above on that subject,Its NOT gonna happen as the distributors do not want it and as Steve has rightly pointed out We need their support.sorry i did not understand you post , just going of what a thought you were on about sorry , will stay out off it because i'm a bucket racer lol

[Drew]

will stay out off it because i'm a bucket racer lolOoohhhh, if only that were true.:no::laugh:

[jellywrestler]

Tying the tri series and the nats together leads to less racing. I don't much like that.

there is no tri-series anymore anyway.

[Drew]

there is no tri-series anymore anyway.Sorry. 'Suzuki series'.

Must get my entry in this week come to think of it.

[Billy]

sorry i did not understand you post , just going of what a thought you were on about sorry , will stay out off it because i'm a bucket racer lol

Why its an open forum and everybody's allowed an opinion,I was just clarifying the situation for you

[wharfy]

The main problem for NZ nationals is lack of depth of talent. We have a limited number of top class riders. No amount of tweaking the classes is going to fix that.
Classes like 250 proddy are great for introducing people to the sport and spotting talent and a good way for less than top class riders to be "part of the nationals" without breaking their bank or endangering their lives (and the lives of others) - But only a handful of those will have the talent to eventually run at the pointy end of the premier classes and that is where the good guys want to go.

There are a handful of riders in NZ that have the ability to stay on the same lap as the current NZ superbike champ for 15 laps. Regardless of what the rules for the class are.
A similar number for the Supersport champ, and other classes at the nats.

A quick check (because 75% of statistics are made up on the spot :) ) from mylaps - At Ruapuna in the last Nats :
8 people finished on the same lap in superbikes.
12 people finished on the same lap in supersport.
All 14 riders finished on the same lap in prolite 250
19 of the 27 starters finished on the same lap in pro-twin/superlite

So I think we should have rules that will allow more overseas riders to bring their bikes here for our National series and our guys/girls to take their bikes to Ozz (or even further afield)
The Nats aren't for people to "have a go" - that's what club racing is for (and where most racing is done - by a long stretch)
And for those who want to take a poke at my "premier class" statement - I bet a $1 to a knob of goat shit that Stroudy never wanted to be 9 times NZ 250 champ (and you can hold the stakes in your moth) :)

[steveyb]

(because 75% of statistics are made up on the spot :) )


Hahahahahahahahahaha


But pretty spot on with the rest of it there Wharfy.

Anyone would think you have too much time to think.

[Skunk]

So I think we should have rules that will allow more overseas riders to bring their bikes here for our National series and our guys/girls to take their bikes to Ozz (or even further afield)


I can't remember clearly but didn't NZ change it's rules to be more inline with Oz?; but I don't know of any that have brought/taken bikes. Most seem to use local bikes. If that's accurate there is no need for our rules to match anyone else's.


If it ain't smokin' - it's broken.

[Robert Taylor]

It might be worth it for BMW to pony up some cash. If stockers were the call, they would decimate all I think.

Why stump up cash to make a loss?

[koba]

Distill the classes down to:


A 'supersport' style 600 class
Formula 3 class open to all sorts of innovations.
All-in post classics with sub classes.
Sidecars.




Then just have more racing to fill the gaps.

Prob need a feeder class too, so keep 250's (Current model argument) but also allow 150 strokers and buckets.
Attempt to tailor the rules for an even playing field (Impossible but make an effort)



:chase:

EDIT: I actually understand reality, just posting as a thought provoker.

[CHOPPA]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

[jellywrestler]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

i'd agree with that having been in amomgst it for over thirty years there's still healthy grids in most areas. Sure there's been ups and downs and bigger grids at times but the world wasa very different place in those times.

what gets me is why we aren't getting overseas visitors to do the suzuki series or the first few rounds of the nats??
thre weeks ago we had seven kiwi road racers at three different international meetings. from a pool of maybe 550

here's a beaut country to holiday in, the interweb to sort your shit out before hand and a wourld renown street circuit in amongst it all.
Now street racing isn't everyones cup of cha but surely in a worl full of road racers it's on a few bucket lists.

[suzuki21]

i'd agree with that having been in amomgst it for over thirty years there's still healthy grids in most areas. Sure there's been ups and downs and bigger grids at times but the world wasa very different place in those times.

what gets me is why we aren't getting overseas visitors to do the suzuki series or the first few rounds of the nats??
thre weeks ago we had seven kiwi road racers at three different international meetings. from a pool of maybe 550

here's a beaut country to holiday in, the interweb to sort your shit out before hand and a wourld renown street circuit in amongst it all.
Now street racing isn't everyones cup of cha but surely in a worl full of road racers it's on a few bucket lists.

Probably the same reason as why a good rider can get invited to the Macau Gp and Cemetery Circuit but cant get a bike/sponsorship.

[jellywrestler]

Probably the same reason as why a good rider can get invited to the Macau Gp and Cemetery Circuit but cant get a bike/sponsorship. you're talking of one particular rider and getting anyone to build/supply a bike for one meeting is tough in this day and age, i'm talking the whole world of road racers who could put NZ on their to do list, they don't have to be winners and the Cemetery circuit certainally a lot less daunting than most UK road Circuits to tick off your bucket list on

[wharfy]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

Haha that's 'cuase you see it in your rear view mirror ! :)

[Billy]

From what I see NZ racing is doing very well

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

[codgyoleracer]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.



Interesting suggestion Billy, - and the questions to ask yourself from my business head position are:

1) Why would a key sponsor/supporter want to establish their own series ?
2) Why has a key sponsor/supporter made a strategic move to reduce their inputs into "the national series" ?
3) Why would a national series want to align with a lesser series ?


Maybe the answers are
(1) For superior market branding, market control and format control
(2) It would be safe to assume that there is only so much money to spread around, - If it were mine i would be best to spend it where its most effective
(3) There is no reason to align, - unless the national series has lost some relevance or it has reduced to a level where it has such little media impact that it requires the need to take on a private partner(s) for additional exposure.



MNZ own the rights to the premier series currently (just), - Get some ducks in line and choose a marketing and class strategy that other series competitors simply cannnot compete with. (MNZ do write the rules you know,,,,,,,,,:whistle: ) ....... (well currently at least)

[jellywrestler]

Yea,



It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series
maybe they thought if they pull from the nats it'll still survive if they pull from the tri series it'll disappear???

[miper]

Yea,

Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

Seems logical to me. All of the people entering these events then have a legal bike to do the nats as well. Surely the fast guys on the latest proddy based thingies will still have the speed and be at the pointy end. Wouldn't it then not preclude anyone based on bike preference alone. I personally would love to see some 250 gp or equally different machines back out there in the appropriate Formula class (If that's what the classes are called) rather than all the proddy things that look and sound the same.

As you were.....

[Billy]

Interesting suggestion Billy, - and the questions to ask yourself from my business head position are:

1) Why would a key sponsor/supporter want to establish their own series ?
2) Why has a key sponsor/supporter made a strategic move to reduce their inputs into "the national series" ?
3) Why would a national series want to align with a lesser series ?


Maybe the answers are
(1) For superior market branding, market control and format control
(2) It would be safe to assume that there is only so much money to spread around, - If it were mine i would be best to spend it where its most effective
(3) There is no reason to align, - unless the national series has lost some relevance or it has reduced to a level where it has such little media impact that it requires the need to take on a private partner(s) for additional exposure.



MNZ own the rights to the premier series currently (just), - Get some ducks in line and choose a marketing and class strategy that other series competitors simply cannnot compete with. (MNZ do write the rules you know,,,,,,,,,:whistle: ) ....... (well currently at least)


maybe they thought if they pull from the nats it'll still survive if they pull from the tri series it'll disappear???

I'm not concerned at any of the above,

Just asking the question to see what others think,It makes perfect sense for them to use their money locally and have control of the series,There are other areas where MNZ could be getting support as youve pointed out Glen,As I'm sure your aware,Competition is good for all if the energy it produces is positive,If the general consensus is we stick with the status quo,Then so be it

[Robert Taylor]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

7 rounds? Are you completely and utterly nuts?

[jellywrestler]

7 rounds? Are you completely and utterly nuts? grab ya medication, it's only a discussion Robert

[Billy]

grab ya medication, it's only a discussion Robert

BINGO!!!!!

Also if the Suzuki series and NZSBK were combined it wouldn't be anymore racing than we've got right now,So Roberts just not understanding the idea.

[Drew]

I have no issue with the nats being a longer series. But I don't think the Wanganui points should count towards the championship.

It is not a circuit to promote as stiff competition as presents at track rounds in my opinion.

[Billy]

I have no issue with the nats being a longer series. But I don't think the Wanganui points should count towards the championship.

It is not a circuit to promote as stiff competition as presents at track rounds in my opinion.

It wouldn't be,We identified that back in 89

[CHOPPA]

Yea,

Its not in a particularly bad way,But that doesn't mean we should sit on our hands and wait for it to go pearshaped either.

It hasn't gone by unnoticed that the distributor that has put in the most for the longest period,Has not only withdrawn their support from the NZSBK series,But they have chosen to run with the previously known Tri series,That said of course they are still supplying machinery and support to a number of competitors in the NZSBK series,

Also the Suzuki series organisers are looking to expand,So how long before we end up in the same situation that is occuring in Oz?Why not be proactive now and consider linking the two together,That way we could end up with a 7 round National series spread over a 4 or 5 month period,That also contains the Suzuki series,Of course that means both series have to run the same rules and when you think about it,Most of the racing in NZ,Is run under F1/2 rules,Doesn't mean it can't be called Superbike/Supersport.....Just canvassing.

Ah I see... So it is constructive!

For some reason competitors seem to be scared to race the Nationals but a lot more are happy to ride the tri series even though the same guys are riding at the front at the same speed. The difference is that there are far more riders to fill the gaps.

F1 Rules work fine for the Suzuki series because the guys up front need to use the same bike for the NZSBK class so this keeps the spec in check. Going full F1 in the nationals could potentially cause problems because someone is going to turn up on a Moto GP bike.

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

Having 2 classes within the Superbike and 600 class to me is the way forward. The NZSBK class should remain the same but there should be an Expert class involved. So sorta like a "B grade" championship within the class. Let the B grade riders run F1 rules but stick to homolgated bikes and give them restrictions on tyres or even a control tyre.

Provided everyone meets the 115% lap times.

This would give the club superbike riders something to race for. They dont want to race against Craig Shirriffs, from their point of view he is a better rider on a better bike on new tyres every session. Its a no win situation (in their mind) So if they have no chance why bother? But if they had the potential to be the NZSBK Expert Champion, that is a huge boost and something they can sell to sponsors etc.

The top 3 from the Expert class each year are automatically put up to the A grade class to stop burglers and it should keep the way clear for people coming through the ranks. Its also an opportunity for riders stepping up from the 600s

[Robert Taylor]

BINGO!!!!!

Also if the Suzuki series and NZSBK were combined it wouldn't be anymore racing than we've got right now,So Roberts just not understanding the idea.

No I understand completely and how it changes the dynamic. I just dont have the stomach to type a novel ( War and Peace ) at this time to explain why we actually have too much racing

[Billy]

Ah I see... So it is constructive!

For some reason competitors seem to be scared to race the Nationals but a lot more are happy to ride the tri series even though the same guys are riding at the front at the same speed. The difference is that there are far more riders to fill the gaps.

F1 Rules work fine for the Suzuki series because the guys up front need to use the same bike for the NZSBK class so this keeps the spec in check. Going full F1 in the nationals could potentially cause problems because someone is going to turn up on a Moto GP bike.

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

Having 2 classes within the Superbike and 600 class to me is the way forward. The NZSBK class should remain the same but there should be an Expert class involved. So sorta like a "B grade" championship within the class. Let the B grade riders run F1 rules but stick to homolgated bikes and give them restrictions on tyres or even a control tyre.

Provided everyone meets the 115% lap times.

This would give the club superbike riders something to race for. They dont want to race against Craig Shirriffs, from their point of view he is a better rider on a better bike on new tyres every session. Its a no win situation (in their mind) So if they have no chance why bother? But if they had the potential to be the NZSBK Expert Champion, that is a huge boost and something they can sell to sponsors etc.

The top 3 from the Expert class each year are automatically put up to the A grade class to stop burglers and it should keep the way clear for people coming through the ranks. Its also an opportunity for riders stepping up from the 600s

Yip,

Some good ideas in there that are worth looking further into,There already is a South Island championship for 2014,It will be called the South Island Gold cup,It will be run over 3 rounds including round's 1 and 2 of NZSBK,With the 3rd round at Teretonga the week following the Levels round.But it is a fully recognised championship,Had hoped to do the same in the North,But AMCC had already moved forward with their date and couldn't accomodate it,2015 Maybe.

Craig who?????Oh... you mean 10 minute Shirriffs????

[Billy]

No I understand completely and how it changes the dynamic. I just dont have the stomach to type a novel ( War and Peace ) at this time to explain why we actually have too much racing

According to you we do,Not so a large number of competitors and yet you wish to start YET another class

[Robert Taylor]

According to you we do,Not so a large number of competitors and yet you wish to start YET another class

Given that there is at least one very stagnant class and stagnant fields it has been suggested as a way forward yes. Notwithstanding also a very important point that so many overlook, a ''bridging'' class that actually teaches bike setup skills. Because there will be something that is worthwhile to adjust on such bikes!

[JayRacer37]

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

As a refinement to this idea, anybody doing both North and South rounds becomes ineligible for point scoring in the North/South cup, to give locals incentive to compete in all rounds in each Island. This would mean a winner of the South cup couldn't be announced until end of the full NZSBK season but maybe that wouldn't be an issue?

[wharfy]

Ah I see... So it is constructive!



Yeah - I had to check I WAS on Kiwibiker :)
Now thats not actually constructive so - As one of those who doesn't do Nats but does do Suzuki Series my reasons are:
The Nats are .. Well the National Championship ! For National Level racers to compete for points
I'm not in that class never have been never will be. My bike is good enough to run in the middle of the pack in Supersport but I am NOT -I'd just be a moving chicane.
As I said in my earlier post the Nats are not a place to "have a go" there is more club racing than you can poke an Ohlins shock at over the summer in NZ . One of the good things about electronic timing is you don't have to enter the Nats to find out how good you are - go to MyLaps compare your lap times with the top ten - if you think you could stay on the same lap as those riders for 15 laps - give it a whirl especially if you are a young up and coming rider.
I might enter a support class at a round - Clubmans ? BEARS ? :)

The Suzuki Series is NOT a National Championship! The Cemetery Circuit is the drawcard - Yes some of those same Nats riders will be there and if they do BEARS will lap me (maybe - even Choppa didn't lap me last year :) ) There are classes for bikes that wouldn't be at the Nats. I do the whole series so I get my annual trip up north to Hampton Downs (where I will almost certainly come last and be lapped - but that is OK)
If I do all the rounds and don't crash I might even be in the money :)
The cemetery circuit is without doubt the BEST bike race meeting in the country (well I recon) The track is a buzz to ride the atmosphere is the BEST the crowd is the BIGGEST - disclaimer - I haven't done a burt Monroe (yet)
If we get 12 - 15 superbikes on the grid at the Nats that will be great, I believe the quality of the racing is more important than entry numbers - Looks like this season will be a ripper - lap records are toppling in the pre-season warm up :niceone:
Oh I just sent in my entry for the Suzuki Series - You have until Friday folks !

[roogazza]

So we have the annual thread on road racing again. Someone thinks Wanganui is great, someone thinks you're scared if you don't race in the points for the national series and then someone wants a class that you can adjust your suspension or learn to(sorry no dis respect KSS)
Nothing has changed,yes we need talent and depth and as I always have thought, the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.

[Robert Taylor]

The most ridiculous thing is that the last round of the Nationals is a 4 day meeting, when 2 days ( and a practice day ) would have more than adequately sufficed as per other rounds. Have many people not got homes and mothers and wives to go to?

[Robert Taylor]

So we have the annual thread on road racing again. Someone thinks Wanganui is great, someone thinks you're scared if you don't race in the points for the national series and then someone wants a class that you can adjust your suspension or learn to(sorry no dis respect KSS)
Nothing has changed,yes we need talent and depth and as I always have thought, the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.

Fair points! With respect to my thoughts many may choose to disbelieve me as it being nothing more than a commercial angle .But the reality is that there is no formal and controlled structure to teach bike setup skills. People arrive into classes such as Supersport 600 and more often than not are like a fish out of water.

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=roogazza;, - "the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.[/QUOTE]


I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

[steveyb]

I will add just one more small tid-bit regarding "value" of the NZSBK series, or 'the nationals' as we were (are) wont to call it in the 20th century.

The New Zealand Grand Prix is now the only officially recognised Grand Prix title outside of the MotoGP series.
That is worth something, however small, it is worth something.

As a young or up and coming rider, or a journeyman, I see that just being involved in that is pretty neat.

I am enjoying the generally positive comments here.

I think that putting in place official island titles would be neat, pity ducks couldn't get in line for this summer, but there you go.



I also like the A/B grade championships idea. Could perhaps be termed Factory/Privateer? Of course there would be burglars and dickheads argueing that they are privateers when they are in fact front runners or distributor supported. This would come down to personal ethics, but some rules around where the bike came from, whether distributor contracts have been signed etc could separate the groups. This idea gives the privateers something to compete for outside of the big prize. And in fact, a privateer could win both championships.

[The Chow]

I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

Well said that man , and thank you Glen , that's it exactly it. if you want to do it , do it! If you don't then that's up to your own personal situation (s). Just get out there (if you can) and have some fun as Glen said your riding will improve when you are racing with faster riders , that is after all what it should be about. We are a mino in the world. Just enjoy the sport for what it is in NZ . It is still the best sport in the world , like Choppa I had to double check if I was Kiwi Biker , constructive ideas , wait on that can't be right? Anyway CU around.

[Billy]

The most ridiculous thing is that the last round of the Nationals is a 4 day meeting, when 2 days ( and a practice day ) would have more than adequately sufficed as per other rounds. Have many people not got homes and mothers and wives to go to?

So just one extra day then Robert? 14 races per class over 4 weekends between Taupo and Timaru as opposed to 10 races over 5 weekends between Auckland and Invercargill,Which one holds the most value for competitors for less travel and time away from home???? Its a no brainer really,Might not suit everybody but in the grand scheme of things its way better value for money than we've had,This year they did the same thing in Australia,Japan and the good old USA,Seemed to work for them,When producing the series format,Its about what we think is best for everybody with the clubs and venues we have to work with,Thats what we've done,Be there...Don't be there,Your choice

[budda]

I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

Amen ..............

[Robert Taylor]

So just one extra day then Robert? 14 races per class over 4 weekends between Taupo and Timaru as opposed to 10 races over 5 weekends between Auckland and Invercargill,Which one holds the most value for competitors for less travel and time away from home???? Its a no brainer really,Might not suit everybody but in the grand scheme of things its way better value for money than we've had,This year they did the same thing in Australia,Japan and the good old USA,Seemed to work for them,When producing the series format,Its about what we think is best for everybody with the clubs and venues we have to work with,Thats what we've done,Be there...Don't be there,Your choice

We await and see then ...........

[Drew]

So long as class within class increases grid numbers, it's win/win for racers and hunters. (Do the TAB offer odds on NZ motorcycle racing? Just a random thought, but wouldn't that bump up bums in seats and bring some much needed revenue to the track?).

Anyhoo. Someone like myself, Tony Ok, Whitetrash, Coxy, would be a lot more likely to run a full nats season if we could go B grade I think. Best of the rest on track possibly, would feel better if the following year I could run B1 (yes I'm thinking what you're thinking B2).

[Billy]

So long as class within class increases grid numbers, it's win/win for racers and hunters. (Do the TAB offer odds on NZ motorcycle racing? Just a random thought, but wouldn't that bump up bums in seats and bring some much needed revenue to the track?).

Anyhoo. Someone like myself, Tony Ok, Whitetrash, Coxy, would be a lot more likely to run a full nats season if we could go B grade I think. Best of the rest on track possibly, would feel better if the following year I could run B1 (yes I'm thinking what you're thinking B2).

Mmmmm,

EXCEPT,The competitors feedback on Pro Twins and Superstock 600 is that they don't bother because they are lumped in with another class and nobody knows when they win a race,So theres no point,I guess on that basis,Its a personal choice and may or may not work,That said,Its not going to interfere with anything else that I can see so wouldn't be a major problem to introduce.

[wharfy]

So..
The consensus seems that the Nats aren't actually "broken" and if you want to do the Nats it will be a great experience, so "just do it !" as the sneaker add says :)
A "privateer" class to run in conjunction with Superbike and Supersport classes could be introduced without upsetting any applecarts which would:

Make it easier for club racers to get into the Nats
Generate a bit more revenue for the clubs running the round



Would there be some sort of acceptance criteria - say:

an entrant must have done a certain number of races at the club level in the class in the last 12 months ?
an entrant must provide evidence they can lap at 115% of the current champ at whatever tracks they normally race on ?
their bike has to be black ? (OK maybe colour can be open - even though the only REAL colour for motorcycles is BLACK )



As far as I am aware there is NO acceptance criteria a prospective competitor has to meet currently (apart from having a full competition licence ) is that correct ?

[Drew]

As far as I am aware there is NO acceptance criteria a prospective competitor has to meet currently (apart from having a full competition licence ) is that correct ?

Read the rule changes mate.

Must have three stamps in your log book, from within the last twelve months in the class you want to compete in, for nats or streets.

To sum up, are you gonna be able to do Wanganui?

[Drew]

Oh yeah, unless you get Billy to sign off that you can ride un squid like.

[wharfy]

Read the rule changes mate.

Must have three stamps in your log book, from within the last twelve months in the class you want to compete in, for nats or streets.

To sum up, are you gonna be able to do Wanganui?

Yep I'll be OK - I knew about the street race criteria - but either missed or forgot about the Nats - it's a good move.:niceone:

[Drew]

No word on taking TAB money?..anyone?

Could attract some serious sponsorship deals for the good guys/girls too.

[scott411]

No word on taking TAB money?..anyone?

Could attract some serious sponsorship deals for the good guys/girls too.

I am not sure if MNZ has ever taken money on NZ championships, but they do get a kick back from the money put on Motogp,

Speedway NZ do let teh TAB into some of the championship meetings, and get a tidy little return off it,

[budda]

I am not sure if MNZ has ever taken money on NZ championships, but they do get a kick back from the money put on Motogp,

Speedway NZ do let teh TAB into some of the championship meetings, and get a tidy little return off it,

DID have an evening discussion about this very subject with the Leader a couple of years back Scotty - will do some follow-up, cant remember what conclusion we came too !

DO remember we both agreed that the potential income was a good thing though ........

[scott411]

DID have an evening discussion about this very subject with the Leader a couple of years back Scotty - will do some follow-up, cant remember what conclusion we came too !

DO remember we both agreed that the potential income was a good thing though ........

I can see some good things to it as well, but by itself its not a solution, with out the rest of the package its only another thing to look after,

now if we were racing at the trotting club in a couple of weeks, with everything onsite, it could have been a hell of a time

[budda]

I can see some good things to it as well, but by itself its not a solution, with out the rest of the package its only another thing to look after,

now if we were racing at the trotting club in a couple of weeks, with everything onsite, it could have been a hell of a time

Facility rental was more than your grog bill for the weekend, that put paid to THAT .......
VERY short-sighted on their part IMO

[scott411]

Facility rental was more than your grog bill for the weekend, that put paid to THAT .......
VERY short-sighted on their part IMO

have heard the story, disgusting really, but what do we really expect from horse people,

[budda]

have heard the story, disgusting really, but what do we really expect from horse people,

To be fair, some very good folks involved - sometimes the commonsense fairy misses the target though

[Robert Taylor]

DID have an evening discussion about this very subject with the Leader a couple of years back Scotty - will do some follow-up, cant remember what conclusion we came too !

DO remember we both agreed that the potential income was a good thing though ........

Thats because Jack was also involved in your discussion........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[300weatherby]

Mmmmm,

EXCEPT,The competitors feedback on Pro Twins and Superstock 600 is that they don't bother because they are lumped in with another class and nobody knows when they win a race,So theres no point,I guess on that basis,Its a personal choice and may or may not work,That said,Its not going to interfere with anything else that I can see so wouldn't be a major problem to introduce.

Then bloody well unlump them.

You can add extra days and races, then you can seperate existing classes. I know a bunch of guys would jump straight in if that were the case, including me. Can't be fucked with the Nationals for exactly this reason, the cost and agravation involved are not mitigated by opportunity.

One hook never considered to help increase grid numbers is changing the national standings to match the point score system, instead of a number one through ten ranking, have a one through fifteen ranking, given points are scored down to fifteenth place........ I'd be inclined to come back myself if that were the case despite classes lumped together.(refering to 600's being only one class)

There you go, help yourself to a constructive possibility instead of all the myopic navel gazing, covering the same ground over and over.

Oh, and you could do something about reducing the costs MNZ load onto the competitors too, funny how just like most other sports, the administration manages to make it all about them, as the administation gets comfortable sitting in ivory castles.........

On the subject of cost, just how hard would it be to have a "control tyre"? and sort a national level buy for everyone to significantly reduce tyre cost- the tyre manufacturors competing for the right to supply would be rather appealing (just leave Continental out though!). Only some people have tyre deals and can run around on good rubber, so sort one deal for all








There

[Billy]

Then bloody well unlump them.

You can add extra days and races, then you can seperate existing classes. I know a bunch of guys would jump straight in if that were the case, including me. Can't be fucked with the Nationals for exactly this reason, the cost and agravation involved are not mitigated by opportunity.

One hook never considered to help increase grid numbers is changing the national standings to match the point score system, instead of a number one through ten ranking, have a one through fifteen ranking, given points are scored down to fifteenth place........ I'd be inclined to come back myself if that were the case despite classes lumped together.(refering to 600's being only one class)

There you go, help yourself to a constructive possibility instead of all the myopic navel gazing, covering the same ground over and over.

Oh, and you could do something about reducing the costs MNZ load onto the competitors too, funny how just like most other sports, the administration manages to make it all about them, as the administation gets comfortable sitting in ivory castles.........

On the subject of cost, just how hard would it be to have a "control tyre"? and sort a national level buy for everyone to significantly reduce tyre cost- the tyre manufacturors competing for the right to supply would be rather appealing (just leave Continental out though!). Only some people have tyre deals and can run around on good rubber, so sort one deal for all








There

Nice troll,But its so full of the usual KB rubbish,I won't lower the tone of the thread by entering into your anti MNZ rant,Have a nice life!!!

[300weatherby]

Nice troll,But its so full of the usual KB rubbish,I won't lower the tone of the thread by entering into your anti MNZ rant,Have a nice life!!!

Naturally....... A point of view you don't like or agree with is dissmissed with a contemptious wave from on high.......

[steveyb]

No, not really.
Your post had the kernel of one idea and then took off onto an hysterical anti-establishment rant that served no purpose other than to either make you feel good or to sidetrack a thread that is putting together some constructive ideas for the future.
You pointed out why you don't turn up. Choice. Stay there on the sidelines and complain.

[Billy]

No, not really.
Your post had the kernel of one idea and then took off onto an hysterical anti-establishment rant that served no purpose other than to either make you feel good or to sidetrack a thread that is putting together some constructive ideas for the future.
You pointed out why you don't turn up. Choice. Stay there on the sidelines and complain.

Bingo,You win the chocolate fish,Clearly has no idea who or what is MNZ or that there are only 4 paid staff(Actually 3 at the mo),All the rest of us donate hundreds of hours a year to run the sport,Just so we can be told how greedy and useless we are,I love it.


Now back on track if we can!!!

[budda]

Oh, and you could do something about reducing the costs MNZ load onto the competitors too, funny how just like most other sports, the administration manages to make it all about them, as the administation gets comfortable sitting in ivory castles.........












IVORY CASTLES ..... in Huntly ???? You have obviously never been there and seen the work the Ladies put through in a pretty ordinary converted house in the big Metropolis.

[Robert Taylor]

Then bloody well unlump them.

You can add extra days and races, then you can seperate existing classes. I know a bunch of guys would jump straight in if that were the case, including me. Can't be fucked with the Nationals for exactly this reason, the cost and agravation involved are not mitigated by opportunity.

One hook never considered to help increase grid numbers is changing the national standings to match the point score system, instead of a number one through ten ranking, have a one through fifteen ranking, given points are scored down to fifteenth place........ I'd be inclined to come back myself if that were the case despite classes lumped together.(refering to 600's being only one class)

There you go, help yourself to a constructive possibility instead of all the myopic navel gazing, covering the same ground over and over.

Oh, and you could do something about reducing the costs MNZ load onto the competitors too, funny how just like most other sports, the administration manages to make it all about them, as the administation gets comfortable sitting in ivory castles.........

On the subject of cost, just how hard would it be to have a "control tyre"? and sort a national level buy for everyone to significantly reduce tyre cost- the tyre manufacturors competing for the right to supply would be rather appealing (just leave Continental out though!). Only some people have tyre deals and can run around on good rubber, so sort one deal for all








There



Already the tyre suppliers make next to nothing........................

[budda]

On the subject of cost, just how hard would it be to have a "control tyre"? and sort a national level buy for everyone to significantly reduce tyre cost- the tyre manufacturors competing for the right to supply would be rather appealing (just leave Continental out though!). Only some people have tyre deals and can run around on good rubber, so sort one deal for all



You ARE taking the piss, right ? The ONLY person who gains is the middle-man, screws the Supplier AND the Competitors - and when the contracted supply is getting low towards the end of the season, and you've chewed through YOUR allocation, will you whinge when you cant access more ?

The REALITY is, at Contracted rates at probably SFA margin, the "Chosen" Supplier will only have the contracted amount in Country ...... and because there is no market, the other Brands will have virtually nil stock on the shelf. And they ALL have lead times for orders in MONTHS, flying in supplies from another market IS an option, but BOY, will you be paying then !!!!!!!!!! Get Real

[Robert Taylor]

Bingo,You win the chocolate fish,Clearly has no idea who or what is MNZ or that there are only 4 paid staff(Actually 3 at the mo),All the rest of us donate hundreds of hours a year to run the sport,Just so we can be told how greedy and useless we are,I love it.


Now back on track if we can!!!

Very fair points Billy. There are some things we disagree on but that doesn't take away from the fact you are spending a lot of your own time with little or no recompense to pretty much do a great job. Ditto for all of the volunteers in the background who in many cases get very much taken for granted. To have a bit of a dig about that a 4 day meeting is very much going to test their resolve!!

[wharfy]

IVORY CASTLES ..... in Huntly ???? You have obviously never been there and seen the work the Ladies put through in a pretty ordinary converted house in the big Metropolis.

Don't dis Huntly, that's my home town ! :)

Out of curiosity - anyone know how it came to be the HQ ? (Apart from the obvious attractions of the coal mines and brickworks)

[Drew]

Don't dis Huntly, that's my home town ! :)

Out of curiosity - anyone know how it came to be the HQ ? (Apart from the obvious attractions of the coal mines and brickworks)

I always assumed it was donated by someone. One mustn't forget that dirt riders make up the majority of members. So the region of head office might originally have been close to home for many of them.

[budda]

Don't dis Huntly, that's my home town ! :)

Out of curiosity - anyone know how it came to be the HQ ? (Apart from the obvious attractions of the coal mines and brickworks)

That's exactly my point !!!!! Would YOU describe the Office as palatial, or indeed even "upmarket" ?
The Ladies could be doing exactly the same work from an office in the Sky City tower or the apartment at Hampton Downs that was seriously considered for a time ........
......... THEN you'd have something to bitch about !!!!!!

There was a pretty simple reason behind the purchase in downtown Huntly as I understand it, but I'll leave that for someone in a position to speak on behalf of the Organisation.

[Billy]

Don't dis Huntly, that's my home town ! :)

Out of curiosity - anyone know how it came to be the HQ ? (Apart from the obvious attractions of the coal mines and brickworks)

Well that explains everything haha

I would assume that as Sandra Perry lives there and she singlehandedly ran MNZ and the speedway control board for many years back through the 70s and until it changed from ACU to MNZ,Whomever was involved at the time decided to buy something easy for her to access,Thats just a guess mind.

[Billy]

Very fair points Billy. There are some things we disagree on but that doesn't take away from the fact you are spending a lot of your own time with little or no recompense to pretty much do a great job. Ditto for all of the volunteers in the background who in many cases get very much taken for granted. To have a bit of a dig about that a 4 day meeting is very much going to test their resolve!!

Yes it will indeed,It was my ONLY concern moving forward with the round,Nigel is confident he has it under control and I have a plan B should he begin to struggle,Lets try and be a bit more positive about the idea,Instead of looking at it like a half empty glass.

[steveyb]

Roberts glass is always half empty, 'cos he has drunk the rest......

[jellywrestler]

Instead of looking at it like a half empty glass. be careful as if the glass is half empty then according to another thread you're possibly incapable of racing and may be tested!!!

[budda]

be careful as if the glass is half empty then according to another thread you're possibly incapable of racing and may be tested!!!

Only emptying it so he can look through the bottom - Mr Magoo rides again .......

[Billy]

Only emptying it so he can look through the bottom - Mr Magoo rides again .......

Hahahahaha,Atleast I can still ride Mr round,Well more like waddle blindly around,I still haven't stopped laughing at you saying youve got a point a few posts ago.......Where would that be? Ive only seen the ROUND in you LOL,Take that mainlander....I feel a Tshirt coming on.

[budda]

Hahahahaha,Atleast I can still ride Mr round,Well more like waddle blindly around,I still haven't stopped laughing at you saying youve got a point a few posts ago.......Where would that be? Ive only seen the ROUND in you LOL,Take that mainlander....I feel a Tshirt coming on.

Sorry, have a perfectly good and witty retort ready for you, but my old Mum always taught us not to mock the afflicted .........

[Robert Taylor]

be careful as if the glass is half empty then according to another thread you're possibly incapable of racing and may be tested!!!

And adjusting springs and clickers!

[wharfy]

That's exactly my point !!!!! Would YOU describe the Office as palatial, or indeed even "upmarket" ?
The Ladies could be doing exactly the same work from an office in the Sky City tower or the apartment at Hampton Downs that was seriously considered for a time ........
......... THEN you'd have something to bitch about !!!!!!

There was a pretty simple reason behind the purchase in downtown Huntly as I understand it, but I'll leave that for someone in a position to speak on behalf of the Organisation.

WAY OFF TOPIC...
Oooo...Sky City ! now there is a possibility.. MNZ have some Portable Sky City Pokies that they issue with a race permit in exchange for using the corner of an office in the Casino. I'ts a WIN - WIN Sky City get more revenue, MNZ get an upmarket address, The race meetings, get some non-racing entertainment and can attract some people with gambling issues who have been banned from all the regular gambling joints in their neighborhood (oh hang on you only get banned if you are a consistent winner. Fuck them)