Michelin Pilot Power 3

[SMOKEU]

What are your thoughts on these?

[AllanB]

Round and black!

[ducatilover]

Round and black!

They're fucked, got a big hole in the middle

[BigAl]

Have done 2000ks on a rear PP3, seems to be wearing ok and good feel.

Started using them after only getting 4500 out of rear S20.

Guy I know got 7500 on the rear of a cbr1000.

[SMOKEU]

Have done 2000ks on a rear PP3, seems to be wearing ok and good feel.

Started using them after only getting 4500 out of rear S20.

Guy I know got 7500 on the rear of a cbr1000.

Sweet, I'll buy a front one for my SRAD. Michelin says they have more grip than the PP 2CT, as well as 20% longer tyre life.

[caspernz]

Have done 2000ks on a rear PP3, seems to be wearing ok and good feel.

Started using them after only getting 4500 out of rear S20.

Guy I know got 7500 on the rear of a cbr1000.

Mmmm, got a set of S20s going on next few days. Then I'll try a set of PP3s for comparison. At a guess you've got a grunty bike similar to my Busa then? Be interesting to hear how long that set of PP3s last. Seen a Bandit rider down here take 'em to about 8000, but that's only half the power of my bike....

[Gremlin]

Unsure of your riding, but do you really need the extra grip of Power?

Possible you'd be looking at double the life, possibly more, from a Road.

[HenryDorsetCase]

My street trip has Pilot Roads on it and I have been waiting for the tyres to wear out. and waiting. still waiting. good wet grip and dry too especially on road.

[p.dath]

What are your thoughts on these?

My favorite tyre. Would definitely buy them again.

[SMOKEU]

Mmmm, got a set of S20s going on next few days. Then I'll try a set of PP3s for comparison. At a guess you've got a grunty bike similar to my Busa then? Be interesting to hear how long that set of PP3s last. Seen a Bandit rider down here take 'em to about 8000, but that's only half the power of my bike....

I've got a 600 SRAD.


Unsure of your riding, but do you really need the extra grip of Power?

Possible you'd be looking at double the life, possibly more, from a Road.

I don't really need the extra grip, but I'd like to have that extra peace of mind for heavy braking, and for only $199 new I can't really complain. I have a Pilot Power on the front at the moment, and a PP 2CT on the rear, both of which seem to have decent tread life and since the PP3 lasts longer than the PP 2CT (according to Michelin) I guess I don't have much to lose.

[Coldrider]

I've got a 600 SRAD.



I don't really need the extra grip, but I'd like to have that extra peace of mind for heavy braking, and for only $199 new I can't really complain. I have a Pilot Power on the front at the moment, and a PP 2CT on the rear, both of which seem to have decent tread life and since the PP3 lasts longer than the PP 2CT (according to Michelin) I guess I don't have much to lose.Softer compound is only more grippy if the torn rubber is discarded clean off the tyre.

[SMOKEU]

Softer compound is only more grippy if the torn rubber is discarded clean off the tyre.

All the more reason to ride harder, or do a track day...

[mulletman]

$199 new ?? 180 ? Ive both front and rear cant fault em yet, previous PR3 and 10k.

[ducatilover]

Sweet, I'll buy a front one for my SRAD. Michelin says they have more grip than the PP 2CT, as well as 20% longer tyre life.

That's always good, my rear has managed somewhere around the 2.5k mark and it's in need of replacement :sweatdrop any idea if they do the PP3 in a 160 rear?

[mossy1200]

Mmmm, got a set of S20s going on next few days. Then I'll try a set of PP3s for comparison. At a guess you've got a grunty bike similar to my Busa then? Be interesting to hear how long that set of PP3s last. Seen a Bandit rider down here take 'em to about 8000, but that's only half the power of my bike....

I have s20s on the 14. Have done 2500km including 3 lots of drag days with a fair bit of wheel spin. Id say they will do 4000-4500 rear and front could go 6-7k if I didn't do double swap. Lots of grip and im running at about 40psi. They tend to get hot iff the pressure is lower.

[Gremlin]

You poor deluded lot.

Bit less power (ok, half) and road 2, 26k from the front and 24k from the rear, included some wheelies etc.

Don't understand being happy with 4 digit mileage :innocent:

[Owl]

Don't understand being happy with 4 digit mileage :innocent:

Because you're old.:msn-wink:

[SVboy]

I think pp3s are a development of the light carcase pures. I never really liked the pures when I tried them. Should be good in theory-less unspring weight but I never really felt the love. Much prefered PP2cts and plain old PPs. Pr2s are awesome in the right application. My GSX 1200 weighs as much as the moon and I should get 12000kms out of the rear. Thats more than twice what I have ever got out of any other tyre in the past! Horses for courses however....

[SMOKEU]

That's always good, my rear has managed somewhere around the 2.5k mark and it's in need of replacement :sweatdrop any idea if they do the PP3 in a 160 rear?

They sure do a 160, and there's a good special on them too http://www.cycletreads.co.nz/products/199-michelin_road/10594-michelin_pilot_power_3_sport_r.aspx


$199 new ?? 180 ? Ive both front and rear cant fault em yet, previous PR3 and 10k.

$199 for a 120/70-17. See the above link,

[SVboy]

Good price but Avon City are doing $429 for a set of Bridgestone S20s[120/180]. That is tyre bang for buck inho.

[BigAl]

Good price but Avon City are doing $429 for a set of Bridgestone S20s[120/180]. That is tyre bang for buck inho.

Yeah so as long as you like replacing twice as often.

[caspernz]

I have s20s on the 14. Have done 2500km including 3 lots of drag days with a fair bit of wheel spin. Id say they will do 4000-4500 rear and front could go 6-7k if I didn't do double swap. Lots of grip and im running at about 40psi. They tend to get hot iff the pressure is lower.

Cheers Mossy, yeah I kinda get the heavy grunty bike wanting a bit more pressure to reduce the carcass flex. Will see how the S20s cope, then the PP3s...and like Gremlin mentioned, seeing he feels sorry for us with such savage tyre wear, maybe the S20 front with T30 rear is the best compromise long term.
In all honesty, tyre wear and fuel consumption were not high up on the list of considerations when selecting the Busa :whocares:...and I doubt it matters much to other owners of bikes of this nature :laugh:

[Gremlin]

Because you're old.:msn-wink:
More like wise :laugh:

Fastest I wore a tyre out was a thou, 1500km. Definitely enough to make a grown man cry. Sure was a fun 1500km tho! Knobbly tyres on the heavy BMW and yeah, you're looking at 5000km ish. Regular tyres, and I'm around the 12-14k mark. Hornet is stupidly good on tyres...

[EJK]

More like wise :laugh:

Fastest I wore a tyre out was a thou, 1500km.

Did you do burnouts for breakfast or what?

What tyre?

[Gremlin]

Did you do burnouts for breakfast or what?

What tyre?
What a waste of expensive rubber. Never done a burnout.

Tyre was a Continental RaceAttack. Really should have been replaced after about 1000km, as it only had faint tread lines on a 1/4 of the tyre when it was replaced, the rest was uh... bald. Oh, and pock marked from having to do some gravel roads due to an accident. I heard later the shop had kept the tyre to show people when they enquired about tyres :whistle:

Super sticky rubber is great when it's at temperature, but it was a slippery beast until then, and you had to ride it hard to get it to grip... evil choice...

[SVboy]

Yeah so as long as you like replacing twice as often.

Dont think s20s will wear out twice as fast as pp3s. Say 5000kms average on the s20s on a 600?

[Bassmatt]

Anybody done a track day on these? I did one and I had an awful time, somehow the bike just felt wrong. I happily blamed myself for this thinking I had just had one of those days poor lines and timing etc.
A week or so later I'm discussing it with the guys in the shop where I bought the tyres and they made the comment that they are grerat tyres for the road but not great on the track. They were talking about profiles and compounds and shit and lost me a bit so I never really got the gist of why they thought that.
I don't know if there is any truth to it or if it was perhaps just an attempt at good customer realtions, hence the opening question.
I have done about 12k on the rear its getting close to needing to be replaced and I wanna do a couple of track days over the summer and am thinking of trying something different but if others say they are fine on track Ill stick with them.
So who has used them on the track and what did you think?

[SMOKEU]

Anybody done a track day on these? I did one and I had an awful time, somehow the bike just felt wrong. I happily blamed myself for this thinking I had just had one of those days poor lines and timing etc.


Are you sure the tyre pressures were "right"?

[Bassmatt]

Are you sure the tyre pressures were "right"?

Yeah thats probably a good point. I dropped em 3 or 4 psi iirc. Guess theres a different ideal pressure for differnt tyres (?)

[SMOKEU]

Yeah thats probably a good point. I dropped em 3 or 4 psi iirc. Guess theres a different ideal pressure for differnt tyres (?)

I bet the issue is more to do with the pressures than anything else, unless there was a manufacturing defect with the tyres.

[caspernz]

Anybody done a track day on these? I have done about 12k on the rear its getting close to needing to be replaced and I wanna do a couple of track days over the summer and am thinking of trying something different but if others say they are fine on track Ill stick with them.
So who has used them on the track and what did you think?

Just a wild guess here, but if you've done 12K on a rear already, then you're talking a Pilot Road 3 as opposed to Pilot Power 3?
Power 3s were released earlier this year, and I've yet to see anyone take one beyond about 7K.

If it's a Road 3 then yeah that's not ideal at all for track work, whereas the Power 3 should be quite a good candidate for the track.

All that aside, don't you think you should be running around a track on a tyre that inspires confidence for you, rather than what anyone else tells you?

[Bassmatt]

Just a wild guess here, but if you've done 12K on a rear already, then you're talking a Pilot Road 3 as opposed to Pilot Power 3?
Power 3s were released earlier this year, and I've yet to see anyone take one beyond about 7K.

If it's a Road 3 then yeah that's not ideal at all for track work, whereas the Power 3 should be quite a good candidate for the track.

All that aside, don't you think you should be running around a track on a tyre that inspires confidence for you, rather than what anyone else tells you?

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Yep its a Road 3. Whoops.....:whistle:

[SMOKEU]

Because the PP3 is a stickier tyre and probably more difficult to get up to temperature than a touring tyre, would it help to run slightly lower pressures on the road to encourage more heat build up? I'm currently using 38psi at the rear, and 36psi at the front for road riding. I weigh around 70kg, add on another 5kg for riding gear.

[caspernz]

Because the PP3 is a stickier tyre and probably more difficult to get up to temperature than a touring tyre, would it help to run slightly lower pressures on the road to encourage more heat build up? I'm currently using 38psi at the rear, and 36psi at the front for road riding. I weigh around 70kg, add on another 5kg for riding gear.

Nah, the PP3 will warm up nicely even at the recommended pressures. Start there and see how you go. For road riding I wouldn't drop them too much from standard, say 2 or 3 psi down at most personally. And hey, your 600 won't stress that tyre too much anyway...

[SMOKEU]

And hey, your 600 won't stress that tyre too much anyway...

Which is one of the reasons I'm glad I don't own a big bike, as I really can't afford those regular tyre replacements.

[mulletman]

Im running 36/38 on the SV im a 100kgs, during a ride around the port hills i stopped & checked psi, front 40 rear 46.

[Coldrider]

Because the PP3 is a stickier tyre and probably more difficult to get up to temperature than a touring tyre, would it help to run slightly lower pressures on the road to encourage more heat build up? I'm currently using 38psi at the rear, and 36psi at the front for road riding. I weigh around 70kg, add on another 5kg for riding gear.


All the more reason to ride harder, or do a track day...You've answered your question.

[SVboy]

Im running 36/38 on the SV im a 100kgs, during a ride around the port hills i stopped & checked psi, front 40 rear 46.

Fuck me! Thats scary!

[AllanB]

Im running 36/38 on the SV im a 100kgs, during a ride around the port hills i stopped & checked psi, front 40 rear 46.

Cold at 36/38 is fairly standard stock recommendations (rear is often up to 42 in manuals). If you checked them when hot they will have risen.

[mulletman]

Cold at 36/38 is fairly standard stock recommendations (rear is often up to 42 in manuals). If you checked them when hot they will have risen.

Yeah id dropped the rear back to 42 from the 46, checked them last nite cold 36/38.

[mulletman]

Fuck me! Thats scary!

It seemed sorta ok :blink:? but it did surprise me somewhat when the gauge went on.

[BigAl]

295877

Due to replace my PP3 rear after 8500ks, just down to wear indicators in centre and starting to slide a little occasionally under power.

On a thou and will be putting another on, good value for money I'd say.

[discotex]

I've got 4 track days on mine and they're holding up great. Loads of grip in the wet and dry and they look like they'll last as well..

[slofox]

Due to replace my PP3 rear after 8500ks, just down to wear indicators in centre and starting to slide a little occasionally under power.

On a thou and will be putting another on, good value for money I'd say.

I'll look to replace the rear S20 with a PP 3 as soon as the exchequer recovers from fixing wagon brakes...current S20 is at 6000km and looking pretty fucked.

[caspernz]

Due to replace my PP3 rear after 8500ks, just down to wear indicators in centre and starting to slide a little occasionally under power.

On a thou and will be putting another on, good value for money I'd say.

That's pretty decent mileage from a sporty tyre :niceone:

[Mike.Gayner]

295877

Due to replace my PP3 rear after 8500ks, just down to wear indicators in centre and starting to slide a little occasionally under power.

On a thou and will be putting another on, good value for money I'd say.

What bike is that on?

[BigAl]

What bike is that on?

R1 + 10f'ing chars

[Mike.Gayner]

I'm going to be due for a new rear shortly - that seems like great mileage for an R1.

[slofox]

That's pretty decent mileage from a sporty tyre :niceone:

True, but it's on a 600 and I'm a real old fucker so ride it like a grampa...:sleep:

[mike401]

So after the track day last weekend my pilot power 3s have gone abit blue on the soft compound sides and fell slightly hard, i know this happens on race tyres, but didnt know road tyres did that. Anyone else had this??????

[p.dath]

So after the track day last weekend my pilot power 3s have gone abit blue on the soft compound sides and fell slightly hard, i know this happens on race tyres, but didnt know road tyres did that. Anyone else had this??????

I've blued road tyres before. Nothing to worry about. The rubber going hard might be a different issue. What makes you think they have gone harder?

[discotex]

So after the track day last weekend my pilot power 3s have gone abit blue on the soft compound sides and fell slightly hard, i know this happens on race tyres, but didnt know road tyres did that. Anyone else had this??????

I had a bit of minor bluing on my PP3's after 4 track days in a row. Have had it any time I've got a road tyre balling up so doesn't bother me. Usually gets scrubbed away with commuting.

The hard is probably the excess rubber. See how it feels after a good weekend ride.

What pressures did you run?

[mike401]

I had a bit of minor bluing on my PP3's after 4 track days in a row. Have had it any time I've got a road tyre balling up so doesn't bother me. Usually gets scrubbed away with commuting.

The hard is probably the excess rubber. See how it feels after a good weekend ride.

What pressures did you run?

Yea ill make a few runs to work and see how they feel, was running 31F 30R

[discotex]

Yea ill make a few runs to work and see how they feel, was running 31F 30R

I reckon they'll be fine. I was 30f/29r for coolish days in the South Island and that seemed good.

[Madness]

I'm going to be due for a new rear shortly - that seems like great mileage for an R1.

Mind you, Al is probably all of about 30kg, fully kitted out & after a heartly lunch.

[BigAl]

Mind you, Al is probably all of about 30kg, fully kitted out & after a heartly lunch.

Maybe so, but only got 4500ks out of an S20 rear in same riding conditions.

[slofox]

Mind you, Al is probably all of about 30kg, fully kitted out & after a heartly lunch.

'e's not called "BIG" Al for nuffink y'know...

[slofox]

Got me a PP3 for $300 fitted today.
Now if the fucking rain would stop...I could try to fall off it.

[Ocean1]

Got me a PP3 for $300 fitted today.
Now if the fucking rain would stop...I could try to fall off it.

Don't let that slow you down too much, grip in the wet is their biggest feature.

So sticky in fact they're scary.

[slofox]

Got me a PP3 for $300 fitted today.
Now if the fucking rain would stop...I could try to fall off it.

Actually, it gets fitted tomorrow...

So I took a last ride on the remains of the S20 today. At 6300km it is still (just barely) legal (I hope) but pretty square. Having said that, it still sticks to the road like shit to a blanket. Let's hope the PP3 is as good. Not that I particularly challenge my tyres of course...


:EDIT: Next Day: Took the new tyre for a ride this morning. Very noice I'd hafta say. Nice progressive roll from side to side. No hint of anything untoward on damp road, very confidence inspiring on dry. Maybe I oughta try harder...

Funny thing. I used to take ages to gain confidence in a new tyre - the "CAUTION, NEW TYRES FITTED!" sticker the shop puts on didn't help. But more recently, after the first roundabout, it's all good. And I still haven't busted me arse.

[G4L4XY]

My PP3's have lasted 11k's so far, probably have another couple of k's left on them. Was using S20's beforehand which would last only half as long.

[slofox]

My PP3's have lasted 11k's so far, probably have another couple of k's left on them. Was using S20's beforehand which would last only half as long.

Rear tyre now done 10,400km. Still some life left in it.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. I could not believe the mileage I got from PR3s .. now I have PR4s . and they are getting up there too with plenty of tread left ..

[Blackbird]

Yeah .. I could not believe the mileage I got from PR3s .. now I have PR4s . and they are getting up there too with plenty of tread left ..

Just on my second PR4 rear. Got 15,000 km from the first one which is identical to the previous 2 PR3's. I note that Michelin have quietly dropped their claim of an extra 20% life over the PR3 :innocent: . Still happy with the life though and likewise with all-weather performance. The front PR4 may well last longer than the PR3 front (~18,000km) as the sipe spacing is a little bigger and might not flex quite so much.

[slofox]

PP3 rear is due for retirement this week. 12,000 - ish km. Not bad. Although it hardly looks legal any more.

Like to try S20 evo this time. Maybe.

[roogazza]

PP3 rear is due for retirement this week. 12,000 - ish km. Not bad. Although it hardly looks legal any more.

Like to try S20 evo this time. Maybe.

Man, thats great! you slowing down in old age ??? lol.

[caspernz]

PP3 rear is due for retirement this week. 12,000 - ish km. Not bad. Although it hardly looks legal any more.

Like to try S20 evo this time. Maybe.

Geez man, if you're getting that many clicks out of a PP3, may as well go for a set of PR4s then...

[slofox]

Man, thats great! you slowing down in old age ??? lol.

Yep. Takin' it easy now. :whistle:


Geez man, if you're getting that many clicks out of a PP3, may as well go for a set of PR4s then...

I want to try the S20 evo. Loved the original S20 - would use 'em all the time if I could afford to.

Then maybe PR4. Always used PR whatever number it was then on the SV

[slofox]

Stayed with the PP3. Decided to wait until both need replacing before moving to S20 evo. Rather test a pair than just one.

Gave the new back a thrashing this morning and happy with the result - as usual. Stable, nothing unexpected ever. Just a little uninspiring compared with the S20. Suits the budget as well.

I need to win a million dollars...<_<

[Moise]

Of all the sports tyres I've used, the PP3 certainly lasts the longest. My current favorite is the Dunlop Q3, they just feel sooo good when the bike is cranked over. 5,500 km out of the last rear on the R1, but that's OK given the amount of fun you can have!

I've heard of S20 rears lasting as little as 1,200 km on litre bikes. Does the Evo wear any better?

[Blackbird]

Just out of interest, the OEM D214 rear on my new GSX-S 1000 will be down to minimum in about 3000 km and that includes taking it fairly easy during break-in. Not particularly impressed with their grip in damp conditions either. As I have to ride in all weathers, I'll probably replace them with PR4's as I had them on my Street Triple and loved them. Not totally discounting pure sport tyres though so finding this thread valuable to get other's views on different brands of sport tyres. I've heard good things about M7's too.

[Owl]

Of all the sports tyres I've used, the PP3 certainly lasts the longest. My current favorite is the Dunlop Q3, they just feel sooo good when the bike is cranked over. 5,500 km out of the last rear on the R1, but that's OK given the amount of fun you can have!

I've heard of S20 rears lasting as little as 1,200 km on litre bikes. Does the Evo wear any better?

Considered the Dunlop Sportsmart 2? I had them as oem on the duke and got 7000km out of the rear and 11,500km from the front. Not bad for a sports tyre I thought. Second choice rear lasted less than 3000km.:facepalm:

[Moise]

My other bike (ZZR1200) has the SportSmart 2. Definitely the best all round tyre I've used on that bike, and it looks like the rear will last about 7000 km, which is not bad at all!

The Q3 feels more of a sports tyre, but it is difficult to compare the tyres on such different bikes. But I can definitely say that the SportSmart gets better mileage!

[EJK]

Just out of interest, the OEM D214 rear on my new GSX-S 1000 will be down to minimum in about 3000 km and that includes taking it fairly easy during break-in. Not particularly impressed with their grip in damp conditions either. As I have to ride in all weathers, I'll probably replace them with PR4's as I had them on my Street Triple and loved them. Not totally discounting pure sport tyres though so finding this thread valuable to get other's views on different brands of sport tyres. I've heard good things about M7's too.

Finally someone mentioned Metzelers! Currently on my 3rd set of M5s (got 6,000+kms before I had to replace due to puncture... twice!), going to try M7RR after this set.

[Blackbird]

Finally someone mentioned Metzelers! Currently on my 3rd set of M5s (got 6,000+kms before I had to replace due to puncture... twice!), going to try M7RR after this set.

Cheers! :Punk: Seeing as you are a Mainlander with some good weather extremes, how are the M5's for grip in either cold or wet conditions?

[EJK]

Cheers! :Punk: Seeing as you are a Mainlander with some good weather extremes, how are the M5's for grip in either cold or wet conditions?

To be honest I'm a fair weather rider so can't tell you much about wet riding :sweatdrop However they are tyres to watch out for when cold (when I say cold I mean 0 - 5 degrees morning temp). Middle part is very durable and good for high mileage but they can be stone hard when cold. Had an oopsie moment 10 meters after leaving the driveway. DTC saved my ass that morning.

Went for a ride yesterday after work (30 deg high!) and as aways tyres felt smooth as butter on hot roads. I am not a fast rider (the bike is, not me) so the tyres seems to chew everything I throw at it. No matter how much I ride "spiritedly*", the tyres look as if didn't even break a sweat! (see attached photo). Definitely M5s are far more capable than what I can ride on the road.

M5s are more steady and smooth flowing into the corners compared to Dunlop Q2s, which has that agile quick drop feel. M5s are more like turning up volume on your TV. Very controllable lean feel.

Oh, biggest reason why I went 3 sets of M5s is because I got them $530 a set. Which is bargain compared to Q3s :sunny:



*Instant license losing speeds

[Blackbird]

Thanks for that - all good info. I hated Q2's which were OEM on my Street Triple. I got used to the feeling of them dropping in as opposed to rolling in but never trusted the bastards in cold, damp conditions. So far, the betting money is still on PR4's, even if they are bloody expensive. Total lifetime cost isn't too bad though as they last really well and besides, the right tyres contribute so much to safety.

[Ocean1]

Considered the Dunlop Sportsmart 2? I had them as oem on the duke and got 7000km out of the rear and 11,500km from the front. Not bad for a sports tyre I thought. Second choice rear lasted less than 3000km.:facepalm:

Pretty sure the Dunlop OEM item on the SDR is not the same as the Sportsmart tyre available off the shelf elsewhere.

But yes, excellent life considering its traction related performance. I got 6k from the rear and the front's about done now at 9k.

Not cheap though.

[G4L4XY]

295877

I have these wear indicators showing on my rear. Wondered what they were, the center is still showing signs of life so still a wee way away from replacement.

I'd definitely replace with another set of PPR3's.

[Owl]

Pretty sure the Dunlop OEM item on the SDR is not the same as the Sportsmart tyre available off the shelf elsewhere.

But yes, excellent life considering its traction related performance. I got 6k from the rear and the front's about done now at 9k.

Not cheap though.

Cheers, wasn't aware of that and thought that was more of a Bridgestone trait.

[Ocean1]

Cheers, wasn't aware of that and thought that was more of a Bridgestone trait.

The OEM tyre is supposedly what the SDR's traction control is calibrated to. A claim that wouldn't affect my decision to replace them with the same if it wasn't for the fact that I really liked them.

[Moise]

Thanks for that - all good info. I hated Q2's which were OEM on my Street Triple. I got used to the feeling of them dropping in as opposed to rolling in but never trusted the bastards in cold, damp conditions. So far, the betting money is still on PR4's, even if they are bloody expensive. Total lifetime cost isn't too bad though as they last really well and besides, the right tyres contribute so much to safety.
Just to confuse us, Dunlop make two very different tyres that have Qualifier 2 on the sidewall. Your OE tyres were probably Made in Japan, but Dunlop in the US also make a tyre with the same name, which is a much better tyre.