Drug testing?

[Drew]

Are we reading the same thread?

:scratch:
Oi, fuck up you!

Engineering an argument without any possible mutually satisfying conclusion, is an art.

[haydes55]

jsut to go down a different tangent,



I understand the need to get people high off recreational drugs off the circuit,



but the full drug testing regime also tests for drugs that are in normal cold and flu, or hay fever medicines, does anyone actually care if your competitor is using some hay fever meds that may have some baned PED in them? I know MNZ and SNZ sign up to the sport NZ charter, but having the same level of scrutiny as a olympic level cyclist or sprinter really necessary for the average motorcycles or speedway racer?









A doctors note saying you are taking said drug for medical reasoning will be enough for an exemption for a not negative result from said drugs.

[Katman]

A doctors note saying you are taking said drug for medical reasoning will be enough for an exemption for a not negative result from said drugs.

So does the urine test show up the presence of the current batch of 'legal highs'?

[Drew]

So does the urine test show up the presence of the current batch of 'legal highs'?

If there's a test that does and piss testing doesn't, what is it?

If no one can provide an answer to that, it doesn't matter for the purposes of this discussion.

[scott411]

A doctors note saying you are taking said drug for medical reasoning will be enough for an exemption for a not negative result from said drugs.

but there are many over the counter remidies that contain banned SUBSTANCES, have you seen the list of every banned drug, its pretty dam long,

my point is, we are amatuer competitors, spending shit loads of money racing things in circles, if i take an over the counter hay fever tablet which has a banned Performance Enhancing Drug in it, its really no advantage, but could put a competitor out with a 2 year ban,

(and your 100K prize money figure is a bit over the top, show me one speedway meeting that pays that, about 50K is the highest i have seen since the Kihikihi Superstock Champs Debacle a few years ago)

[haydes55]

but there are many over the counter remidies that contain banned SUBSTANCES, have you seen the list of every banned drug, its pretty dam long,

my point is, we are amatuer competitors, spending shit loads of money racing things in circles, if i take an over the counter hay fever tablet which has a banned Performance Enhancing Drug in it, its really no advantage, but could put a competitor out with a 2 year ban,

(and your 100K prize money figure is a bit over the top, show me one speedway meeting that pays that, about 50K is the highest i have seen since the Kihikihi Superstock Champs Debacle a few years ago)






there are also over the counter alternatives which don't contain banned substances. It's not a performance issue it's a safety issue of those drugs being abused.

Have you ever been to the springs? The big meetings there I've seen 1st place holding a $50,000 check 2nd holding a $25,000 and 3rd $10,000. That was just the top 3 in one class. The midgets were paying similar that night. I'd say $150,000 in prize money was probably given away that night. World of outlaws sprintcar series and midget meetings can attract huge sponsors and international professional racers. Michael pickens brad mosen etc. Are some local boys making a career out of speedway.

[Katman]

If there's a test that does and piss testing doesn't, what is it?


I don't know Drew - that's why I was asking.

If the current batch of 'legal highs' are not picked up by the current testing methods then I'd suggest that MNZ and SNZ have a far greater problem on their hands than that of people who may have smoked dope a few weeks ago.

[scott411]

there are also over the counter alternatives which don't contain banned substances. It's not a performance issue it's a safety issue of those drugs being abused.

Have you ever been to the springs? The big meetings there I've seen 1st place holding a $50,000 check 2nd holding a $25,000 and 3rd $10,000. That was just the top 3 in one class. The midgets were paying similar that night. I'd say $150,000 in prize money was probably given away that night. World of outlaws sprintcar series and midget meetings can attract huge sponsors and international professional racers. Michael pickens brad mosen etc. Are some local boys making a career out of speedway.


please show me where they pay 50K for a win at the springs,

NZ midget Champs entry form, total prize pool $36K (to be raced at the springs 07/12/13)
http://www.speedway.co.nz/pdf/Forms/NZ%20Midget%20Entry%20Form.pdf

I know the 50 lapper and the World Sprintcars pay more, but i thought it was around 10K for the win and about 40k total prize pool

NZ Superstocks, even less, $3000K to win, plus heat money,
http://www.speedway.co.nz/pdf/Forms/NZ%20Superstock%20Entry%20Form.pdf

[scott411]

Are some local boys making a career out of speedway.

Pickens was working last year for BSL racing, Mosen is a sign writer, no one i know of is making a living out of racing speedway, PIckens may do next year if he goes well in the states

[Drew]

I don't know Drew - that's why I was asking.

If the current batch of 'legal highs' are not picked up by the current testing methods then I'd suggest that MNZ and SNZ have a far greater problem on their hands than that of people who may have smoked dope a few weeks ago.I do understand what you're saying, but there's a flip side to it.

Untill authorities have actually studied something and it is put on a list, it's technically all good for people to be taking it at the track. Track steward, and clark of the course are allowed to make a judgement call on any competitor of course. In that instance, if someone raised a concern it would be looked into and appropriate (according to the MNZ guidlines) action would be taken.

So though there are countless mind altering substances out there, that might not show up in testing, there is a fall back.

Christ, someone really 'jonesing' might just start sniffing the petrol in their containers. There's no full proof way to do it. But since a piss test shows up most of the known and banned shit, stick with it and kick anyone failing the test to the curb I say.

[haydes55]

Pickens was working last year for BSL racing, Mosen is a sign writer, no one i know of is making a living out of racing speedway, PIckens may do next year if he goes well in the states





I know previous years when Pickens etc went to USA they raced 2+ times per week in NZ over our summer then went to USA for their summer and raced 2-3 times per week and weren't working just racing. Bryce Townsend is doing those open wheel experiences and is helping kiwis get experience etc to make it over in USA now he's retired from driving.

That was a few years back but with the travel I presumed they had no time to work.

[scott411]

I know previous years when Pickens etc went to USA they raced 2+ times per week in NZ over our summer then went to USA for their summer and raced 2-3 times per week and weren't working just racing. Bryce Townsend is doing those open wheel experiences and is helping kiwis get experience etc to make it over in USA now he's retired from driving.

That was a few years back but with the travel I presumed they had no time to work.

I have done Bryce's school a couple of times and hope to get out and race a midget next year if time allows, hopefully at Huntly or Baypark, maybe at the springs, (as long as the track is not anywhere

the twice a week is really only for 3 weeks just after christmas, while the internationals are here, but that has got shorter as they want to get back to the chili bowl

[Katman]

I do understand what you're saying, but there's a flip side to it.

Untill authorities have actually studied something and it is put on a list, it's technically all good for people to be taking it at the track. Track steward, and clark of the course are allowed to make a judgement call on any competitor of course. In that instance, if someone raised a concern it would be looked into and appropriate (according to the MNZ guidlines) action would be taken.

So though there are countless mind altering substances out there, that might not show up in testing, there is a fall back.

Christ, someone really 'jonesing' might just start sniffing the petrol in their containers. There's no full proof way to do it. But since a piss test shows up most of the known and banned shit, stick with it and kick anyone failing the test to the curb I say.

Your argument is going from bad to worse Drew.

What you're effectively saying is that a competitor can have a good old session on Puff Super Strength and as long as they can act straight in front of the officials then they're good to go.

[ellipsis]

...although I agree with the op generally, he is also fairly naive, and if speedway is paying that good these days, I'm going back there...eight bucks or maybe ten was the most start money I ever saw at a speedway, although I'm sure it has changed since then...

...although Madness is talking rather sensibly, IMO, the black and the white of it is...no substances allowed...

...then there's Drew...what can you say...

.....that's entertainment...


...in all my years of being around motorsport, I dont think I have ever run across the smell of pot in the pits...not saying that it may not have happened though...I would be much more worried about the smell of stale piss on a competitors breath...

[Madness]

What you're effectively saying is that a competitor can have a good old session on Puff Super Strength and as long as they can act straight in front of the officials then they're good to go.

I love it. Chuff through half an ounce of herbal highs on the way to the track & you're all good, it's the Johnny who smoked half a J of natures-own 6 weeks prior that's the real threat to safety.

:facepalm:

[Drew]

Your argument is going from bad to worse Drew.

What you're effectively saying is that a competitor can have a good old session on Puff Super Strength and as long as they can act straight in front of the officials then they're good to go.I didn't offer an argument.

It might be possible for a racer to get high if they really want to, and go unnoticed. Yes. I wasn't in any way promoting the idea, or suggesting anything one way or the other. All I did was state some stuff.

[Drew]

I love it. Chuff through half an ounce of herbal highs on the way to the track & you're all good, it's the Johnny who smoked half a J of natures-own 6 weeks prior that's the real threat to safety.

:facepalm:
I have never said that someone smoking weed six weeks ago was a threat to safety. I said I don't give a fuck if they don't get to race because of it, to remove someone else who is high and can be detected and removed. Their rights are not being violated in any way shape or form, so fuck 'em.

[skippa1]

:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

Far canal.........this is entertaining

[Madness]

I have never said that someone smoking weed six weeks ago was a threat to safety and despite there being better test methods available, I say fuck 'em.

Not much more to say really, is there?

[haydes55]

How is a swab test better? It can't pick up as many drugs as a urine test, it costs more and it's apparently less reliable.

The only down side to urine testing you can see is it breaches your right to break the law when you want. In the eyes of an official organisation, they don't give a flying fuck. And why should they give a fuck?

[Madness]

How is a swab test better? It can't pick up as many drugs as a urine test, it costs more and it's apparently less reliable.

The only down side to urine testing you can see is it breaches your right to break the law when you want. In the eyes of an official organisation, they don't give a flying fuck. And why should they give a fuck?

It's better from the perspective that recent Cannabis use (i.e ingestion within the ~6 hours prior to sampling) and smoked methamphetamine probably represent more than 90% of any threat of drug effects making it onto a track yet you're more concerned about Cocaine, drugs stuffed up arseholes for fun and people injecting P which, if you had a clue, is as likely to be an issue as southern right whales masquerading as motorcycle riders and showing you all up as noobs.

[haydes55]

So don't test for it because it's not common? You do know that NZ has a needle van? All it takes is one person and it's worth it. There are thousands of people from all walks of life, racing every weekend. Do you think not a single one injects?

[Katman]

So don't test for it because it's not common? You do know that NZ has a needle van? All it takes is one person and it's worth it. There are thousands of people from all walks of life, racing every weekend. Do you think not a single one injects?

You still haven't addressed the issue of 'legal highs'.

[Madness]

I'm starting to think our OP is on drugs.

[Drew]

You still haven't addressed the issue of 'legal highs'.


I'm starting to think our OP is on drugs.

You're asking the wrong person, to begin with.

Reckon the pair of you should give this "six weeks" a hoon.

Whoever is responsible for the testing, has an obligation to test for as much as they can. Contact DDNZ (is that what they're called?) yourselves I suggest. Try not slur too much when you do though.

[Madness]

Whoever is responsible for the testing, has an obligation to test for as much trace elements as they can, regardless of actual impairment as it's not really an exercise in risk reduction, rather a cock-waving exercise in attempt to show the media & TPTB that efforts are being made to rid the smack-injecting junkies from the ranks of the thousands of professional racers who compete at speedway meetings each week.

Maybe I should ask Hayden where he's scoring from? Must be some good shit.

[Drew]

Maybe I should ask Hayden where he's scoring from? Must be some good shit.You could also try, pulling your fucken head out of your arse.

[Madness]

You could also try, pulling your fucken head out of your arse.

Unfortunately I'm not that flexible and unlike most sidecar racers, my arsehole isn't as big as my head. Anyhoo, this thread is all a bit redundant now seeing as we've established that if any racer who is also an occasional recreational Cannabis user wants to continue racing, all they need to do is switch to the so called "legal highs" and they'll be sweet as to race, taking comfort in the knowledge that all those Heroin addicts that they used to race against are no longer there.

[Drew]

Unfortunately I'm not that flexible and unlike most sidecar racers, my arsehole isn't as big as my head. I dunno man, seems by the following statement that you're jamming it further in!


Anyhoo, this thread is all a bit redundant now seeing as we've established that if any racer who is also an occasional recreational Cannabis user wants to continue racing, all they need to do is switch to the so called "legal highs" and they'll be sweet as to race, taking comfort in the knowledge that all those Heroin addicts that they used to race against are no longer there.You have no idea whether teh legal highs are picked up in a piss test. You might wanna give this some thought before you do it again. You cannot state something as fact, just because you've heard Katman say something. He's brighter than you, and mostly forms things as opinion or question only.

He's not the massiah I'm afraid. Just a funny old cunt, who like to get under people's skin for a bit o' fun.

[pritch]

:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

Far canal.........this is entertaining

Yeah, I've read most of the thread and still don't get what they're all on about. Are they high on something?

[Madness]

He's brighter than you.

Really? You cannot state something as fact without the evidence to back it up Drew, just as a piss test doesn't prove impairment from Cannabis use. Besides, I reckon Katman's simply had a lot more practice dealing with fuckwits such as yourself.

[Katman]

You have no idea whether teh legal highs are picked up in a piss test.

Well you would have thought that since the OP has been questioned on the legal high issue a number of times in this thread that he would have had the decency to check it out and report back to us.

It seems instead that he's studiously avoiding the issue.

[Drew]

Well you would have thought that since the OP has been questioned on the legal high issue a number of times in this thread that he would have had the decency to check it out and report back to us.

It seems instead that he's studiously avoiding the issue.

I wouldn't have thought that at all.

[haydes55]

Well you would have thought that since the OP has been questioned on the legal high issue a number of times in this thread that he would have had the decency to check it out and report back to us.

It seems instead that he's studiously avoiding the issue.





All I know is the press release. I've mentioned twice before I don't have an answer (so not sure how that's studiously avoiding?).

I know the legal highs were made illegal and they made new batches with new active ingredients, the law changed to bring the burden of proof of safety onto the manufacturer so not sure if any are still available to buy?

[vinducati]

I think drug testing is a good idea.
They need to make sure sidecar racers are on drugs, cause that's is surely the only reason a racer would approach a bike and not notice it has one to many wheels.

[Drew]

I think drug testing is a good idea.
They need to make sure sidecar racers are on drugs, cause that's is surely the only reason a racer would approach a bike and not notice it has one to many wheels.
We are the first ones to get tested. For that very reason I think.

[Katman]

All I know is the press release. I've mentioned twice before I don't have an answer (so not sure how that's studiously avoiding?).

I know the legal highs were made illegal and they made new batches with new active ingredients, the law changed to bring the burden of proof of safety onto the manufacturer so not sure if any are still available to buy?

I see your ability to research the issue of legal highs hasn't improved any since the start of the thread.

http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/current-list-of-interim-product-approvals-october-2013/2013

Your desire to crucify any motorcycle racer who shows a presence of THC in their system (regardless of how long it's been since they were impaired by it), and yet ignore whether there's any way of testing for the presence of legal highs, shows your argument is full of shit.

[Drew]

I see your ability to research the issue of legal highs hasn't improved any since the start of the thread.

http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/current-list-of-interim-product-approvals-october-2013/2013

Your desire to crucify any motorcycle racer who shows a presence of THC in their system (regardless of how long it's been since they were impaired by it), and yet ignore whether there's any way of testing for the presence of legal highs, shows your argument is full of shit.

To say that because he isn't aware of testing for different stuff, that his argument is invalid is totally unreasonable and unrealistic.

Nothing has changed regarding the weed debate. Smoke drugs, get caught, Fuck off.

[Madness]

Smoke drugs, get caught, Fuck off.

Just don't trip over as you fuck off through the thick cloud of hypocrisy or there'll undoubtedly (I know you love that word Drew, I put it in just for you) be an ensuing OSH investigation.

It seems this "dilemma" is nothing new, I though this bit was particularly interesting...


The Southland Times has been told by separate sources this month that some blue collar workers are also turning to harder drugs to beat workplace drug testing. This is because harder drugs leave their systems quicker than cannabis, they said.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/7478933/Staff-using-legal-highs-to-beat-tests

[Drew]

Just don't trip over as you fuck off through the thick cloud of hypocrisy or there'll undoubtedly (I know you love that word Drew, I put it in just for you) be an ensuing OSH investigation.

It seems this "dilemma" is nothing new, I though this bit was particularly interesting...



http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/7478933/Staff-using-legal-highs-to-beat-testsI'm not sure I follow what it is you're trying to say. Is it that because weed shows up for a long time, that it's the fault of the organisers of race events that it's members might start taking 'harder' drugs?

[skippa1]

It seems this "dilemma" is nothing new, I though this bit was particularly interesting...



http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/7478933/Staff-using-legal-highs-to-beat-tests

This is true......I know (I do know this too) a number of people in our industry are on the burn as it's out of the system in 48 or so hours.......
fucken losers

[Madness]

I'm not sure I follow what it is you're trying to say. Is it that because weed shows up for a long time, that it's the fault of the organisers of race events that it's members might start taking 'harder' drugs?

Far from it Drew.

The article I posted suggests that the use of piss tests is so fundamentally flawed that I could give up my J-a-day Cannabis habit tomorrow and take to stuffing class-A drugs in my arm & up my arse like a proper junkie, just as Hayden has eluded to being common practice and take a day or three off before I can pass the SNZ test & go racing. Either this or I quit the herb tomorrow & buy a shipper full of the latest & greatest "legal-high" product that doesn't show on a piss test & hoon like fuck on it right up until I drive through the main gate to the track.

And that's a safer outcome than allowing a responsible low-level Cannabis user to race? (providing they're not apparently munted on race day, of course)

PC, Press-release-cock-waving-bullshit-exercise fail. NZDDA must love muppets like the ones at SNZ.

[haydes55]

I see your ability to research the issue of legal highs hasn't improved any since the start of the thread.

http://www.legalhighs.co.nz/synthetic-cannabis/current-list-of-interim-product-approvals-october-2013/2013

Your desire to crucify any motorcycle racer who shows a presence of THC in their system (regardless of how long it's been since they were impaired by it), and yet ignore whether there's any way of testing for the presence of legal highs, shows your argument is full of shit.








you're right. I should research more. Unfortunately for me I don't have internet at home (I can use tapatalk on my phone to check kiwibiker).

You've proven you can find the answer to your own questions without saying "you're the OP with the question, you should know all the answers".

You're Katman, isn't your slogan "you can't rely on anyone else to keep you safe"?

You don't need to rely on anyone else to find the answer to what you can google yourself in 2 minutes and link the results up.

[jellywrestler]

We are the first ones to get tested. For that very reason I think.

i remember a team tooting up before riding at one of the street meetings, they were put in their place rather rapidly...

[Drew]

Far from it Drew.

The article I posted suggests that the use of piss tests is so fundamentally flawed that I could give up my J-a-day Cannabis habit tomorrow and take to stuffing class-A drugs in my arm & up my arse like a proper junkie, just as Hayden has eluded to being common practice and take a day or three off before I can pass the SNZ test & go racing. Either this or I quit the herb tomorrow & buy a shipper full of the latest & greatest "legal-high" product that doesn't show on a piss test & hoon like fuck on it right up until I drive through the main gate to the track.

And that's a safer outcome than allowing a responsible low-level Cannabis user to race? (providing they're not apparently munted on race day, of course)

PC, Press-release-cock-waving-bullshit-exercise fail. NZDDA must love muppets like the ones at SNZ.There's just one thing that keeps springing to mind. The harder drugs that leave your system, have no chance of impairing you if they don't show up in a piss test. Cannabis on the other hand, might show up because someone had a 'wake and bake' before they got out of bed.

As for the legal highs, I didn't think there were any available at the moment. But a search shows a bunch of stuff that can be purchased, (or could when the website was last updated).

I dunno what the answer is to test for them though, it didn't go into it or link it in any way.

[Kiwi Graham]

The test kits being trialled by MNZ all test for more than just THC

[jellywrestler]

There's just one thing that keeps springing to mind. The harder drugs that leave your system, have no chance of impairing you if they don't show up in a piss test.

As for the legal highs, I didn't think there were any available at the moment.

. never been near any of that shit but i'm sure despite being out of ones system some would have left some sort of side effects whether it be severe lack of sleep or similar

what about those whove brought up large and have a stash of legal highs? after all, fireworks aren't all used by 5th november are they???

[unstuck]

Tested some drugs yesterday that get the big :2thumbsup.

[Katman]

You've proven you can find the answer to your own questions without saying "you're the OP with the question, you should know all the answers".

You don't need to rely on anyone else to find the answer to what you can google yourself in 2 minutes and link the results up.

Why should I feel it's my responsibility to find out whether a urine test picks up the presence of legal highs?

If you're so concerned about rider safety and ridding the racetrack of any traces of psychoactive substances I would have thought you would make it a priority to find out for yourself.

[wharfy]

There are thousands of people from all walks of life, racing every weekend. Do you think not a single one injects?

Fuck that's a lot !

[Madness]

There's just one thing that keeps springing to mind. The harder drugs that leave your system, have no chance of impairing you if they don't show up in a piss test. Cannabis on the other hand, might show up because someone had a 'wake and bake' before they got out of bed.

If the goal of testing for Cannabis is actually to identify impairment, then surely a mouth swab would be better at catching the "wake & bake" user, as the piss test is relying on the THC passing through the entire body & all it's processes, by which time the impairment would in all likelihood have passed. Therefore, so far as meeting the objective - the piss test fails miserably, which is probably why the popo don't use it as their prosecutions wouldn't last 2-1/2 minutes in a court of law.

Hayden has tried to use the argument of excessive cost against offering both tests but it's been highlighted earlier that the swab test is only $4.00 more than the piss test & the total cost of the mouth swab test is only $22.00, slightly more than a South Auckland tinny. User pays, anyone?

[haydes55]

If the goal of testing for Cannabis is actually to identify impairment, then surely a mouth swab would be better at catching the "wake & bake" user, as the piss test is relying on the THC passing through the entire body & all it's processes, by which time the impairment would in all likelihood have passed. Therefore, so far as meeting the objective - the piss test fails miserably, which is probably why the popo don't use it as their prosecutions wouldn't last 2-1/2 minutes in a court of law.

Hayden has tried to use the argument of excessive cost against offering both tests but it's been highlighted earlier that the swab test is only $4.00 more than the piss test & the total cost of the mouth swab test is only $22.00, slightly more than a South Auckland tinny. User pays, anyone?










I never said the cost was an issue....

I also never said this was testing for marijuana...

It's a drug test, to test for as many drugs as possible. So as a method of checking participants for the presence of psychoactive substances being used by the participant, there is no better test. There are more drugs than just weed.

[haydes55]

Fuck that's a lot !










Not all at one meeting or in the same class though. But last I saw there are just under 200 registered solo riders in NZ... And that's probably one of the least popular speedway classes.

[Madness]

I never said the cost was an issue....

O.K, I'll give you that one, must have been Drewfus. So if cost isn't an issue & if a user-pays approach is taken to a mouth swab test as an optional secondary test, why not look into it?


I also never said this was testing for marijuana...

But it includes testing for THC, the active ingredient in Cannabis. Semantics? I don't have any issues with you muppets testing for Cocaine, Heroin, Ecstacy, etc, etc as any positive result is in all likelihood a result of recent ingestion, therefore a potential safety issue. It's a waste of money testing for those drugs in my opinion but it's your money to waste.


It's a drug test, to test for as many drugs as possible. So as a method of checking participants for the presence of psychoactive substances being used by the participant, there is no better test. There are more drugs than just weed.

Yeah but the thing is that THC ingested 6 weeks prior to sampling is hardly active on anyones psycho, innit. You might as well line 'em all up & ban any cunt whose eyes are too close together or you don't like their haircut, this would be equally as scientific as what's being proposed in regards to eliminating risk as a result of Cannabis use.

[kiwi cowboy]

...rules is rules...we are bound by the fucking things in just about all areas of life...the fact that some people's first breathe of oxygen when they open their eyes in the morning is enough to kick their brain dead actions into life without any need of adding mind altering drugs should be tested for also...that would reduce the numbers involved in any activity by a big percentage...all we need is an agency to get the contract to test and create the numbers for how much oxygen is too much...

:nono:i dunno if I like being talked about ya mongrel:bleh

[vinducati]

If you are racing, then the simple answer is don't smoke dope.
Don't see why that is so hard for some people.
You can quit racing and go back to dope smoking.
I don't see why it's so hard.
Or join a band, we drug test to make sure you are on something

[unstuck]

If you are racing, then the simple answer is don't smoke dope.
Don't see why that is so hard for some people.
You can quit racing and go back to dope smoking.
I don't see why it's so hard.
Or join a band, we drug test to make sure you are on something

That makes way to much sense, your not from round here are you?:msn-wink:

[Akzle]

It's a drug test, to test for as many drugs as possible. So as a method of checking participants for the presence of psychoactive substances being used by the participant, there is no better test. There are more drugs than just weed.

yes. But P will be out of your system (=clean test) in a day or 2, eccy, be surprised if it showd up after 5 days, lsd, peyote, salvia, the same, heroin, basicalky once youve come down. So someone could have a fear and loathing style binge and race the next weekend. Which wouldnt be a problem, if it werent for all the damn batts!

[vinducati]

All joking aside.
If you race you have a serious responsibility to the other riders on the track.
Also to their family and yours.
They idea of testing for one drug is really not the point.
The point is attempting to change the culture some people are into.

If you want to take drugs at all, like I said join a band.

[Madness]

All joking aside.
If you race you have a serious responsibility to the other riders on the track.
Also to their family and yours.

Just as everyone on the road has a responsibility to other road users & their family every day. Sure, the speeds are higher on a track but the level of preparedness & skill on a track is also much higher.


They idea of testing for one drug is really not the point.
The point is attempting to change the culture some people are into.

Correct. This is an attempt at social engineering under the false pretence of being a safety initiative.


If you want to take drugs at all, like I said join a band.

Or just smoke methamphetamine which clears out of the system in 2 days. :clap:

[vinducati]

It is not social engineering.
That is just paranoid.
I understand that you may feel it is pointless.
You are more than entitled to your view, as am I.
I still believe it is not a bad idea to encourage people to at least think about the things the put into themselves, and how that may effect their judgment.

[jellywrestler]

yes. But P will be out of your system (=clean test) in a day or 2, eccy, be surprised if it showd up after 5 days, lsd, peyote, salvia, the same, heroin, basicalky once youve come down. So someone could have a fear and loathing style binge and race the next weekend. Which wouldnt be a problem, if it werent for all the damn batts!

if they do a hair test then the traces will be there long term......

[codgyoleracer]

You're a bit slow eh?

Testing for the presence of THC is not the same as testing for being high.

I tried P once. Rode a ZZR1100 from Auckland to Wellington on a beautiful autumn day. It was fucking epic.


And your a bit of a dick, - funny how the world has a habit of balancing things out.

[scrivy]

And your a bit of a dick, - funny how the world has a habit of balancing things out.

You talking about the Darwin effect? :shifty:

[haydes55]

You talking about the Darwin effect? :shifty:





I like Darwin awards being handed out to those who deserve it... I hate when Darwin awards have collateral damage.

[The Reibz]

Personally (as many others would agree) I play pool alot better after the magic number of 5 beers. After 6, it turns to shit. Whos to say I couldn't ride a motorcycle better after 5 beers... or 5 cones/hits/spots???

[nodrog]

..... ... Whos to say I couldn't ride a motorcycle better after 5 beers... or 5 cones/hits/spots???

your video of you at the drags.

[haydes55]

Personally (as many others would agree) I play pool alot better after the magic number of 5 beers. After 6, it turns to shit. Whos to say I couldn't ride a motorcycle better after 5 beers... or 5 cones/hits/spots???





If you miss a shot in pool, you wait your next turn. If you miss your line, a rut or a rider ahead going down by an inch or a split second you are as good as a murderer in my books if the resulting crash causes a fatality and you show any level of psychoactive substance.

Given the option of racing on a track where you know no one is on any drugs, or a race track where you know anyone could be on drugs. Where would you rather risk your life racing? Where would you rather your family and friends race?

There are "black tracks" in NZ who don't abide by SNZ rules. Personally I'd rather avoid them. I'm not sure of they have higher crash rates or more fatalities or not.

[skippa1]

. Whos to say I couldn't ride a motorcycle better after 5 beers... or 5 cones/hits/spots???

Me. I say you couldn't.:blink:

[Katman]

....you are as good as a murderer in my books if the resulting crash causes a fatality and you show any level of psychoactive substance.


So how are you going with the testing for legal highs then?

[codgyoleracer]

So how are you going with the testing for legal highs then?

Cue dick No2

[Katman]

Cue dick No2

It's a perfectly valid question Glen.

Are you too stupid to formulate an answer?

[haydes55]

It's a perfectly valid question Glen.

Are you too stupid to formulate an answer?







Urine samples can show a lot, I would presume legal highs would show up. You don't only piss out drugs on a list, you piss out excess nutrients, minerals, bacteria etc. As with all other drugs, zero tolerance.

[Katman]

I would presume legal highs would show up.

Do you mean to tell us that you haven't actually found out yet whether the current batch of tests are able to check for all the legal highs that are currently available?

[Kiwi Graham]

Do you mean to tell us that you haven't actually found out yet whether the current batch of tests are able to check for all the legal highs that are currently available?

If your're that dam keen to find out do the bloody leg work yourself rather than get someone else to do it for you!

[Katman]

If your're that dam keen to find out do the bloody leg work yourself rather than get someone else to do it for you!

Come on Graham, think about it.....

I'm not the one who started this thread and I'm not the one who is placing myself at risk by racing against potentially impaired competitors.

If the OP was genuine in his concern he would make it a priority to find out for certain.

[codgyoleracer]

It's a perfectly valid question Glen.

Are you too stupid to formulate an answer?


Nah, but luckily am bright enough to spot a dickhead

[Katman]

Nah, but luckily am bright enough to spot a dickhead

Really Glen? So what part of what I've said do you not agree with?

Maybe you're just too stupid to understand what I've said.

[codgyoleracer]

Really Glen? So what part of what I've said do you not agree with?

Maybe you're just too stupid to understand what I've said.


I think your right

[wharfy]

Personally (as many others would agree) I play pool alot better after the magic number of 5 beers. After 6, it turns to shit. Whos to say I couldn't ride a motorcycle better after 5 beers... or 5 cones/hits/spots???

Pretty much every credible test of the effects of alcohol on driving for the first question.

Why don't you do a few cones/hits/spots and go for a blat over the hill (or wherever your racer road is) - purely in the interests of science....

[haydes55]

Do you mean to tell us that you haven't actually found out yet whether the current batch of tests are able to check for all the legal highs that are currently available?










I'm in semi-retirement from racing at the moment so not risking my ass. I don't know the full list of chemicals it shows up nor which of those chemicals come from legal highs. I do know if any test can show legal highs, a urine sample will.

[Katman]

I'm in semi-retirement from racing at the moment so not risking my ass. I don't know the full list of chemicals it shows up nor which of those chemicals come from legal highs. I do know if any test can show legal highs, a urine sample will.

So, in other words, you don't care sufficiently to bother finding out?

[haydes55]

So, in other words, you don't care sufficiently to bother finding out?







I asked the SNZ steward and he said he didn't know, but presumed it would show up. I have no internet nor any contact details of drug testing agencies.

As far as I know legal highs were made illegal over a year ago. So are an illegal drug and as such can be detected in a urine sample, thus creating a not negative result.

[Katman]

I asked the SNZ steward and he said he didn't know, but presumed it would show up. I have no internet nor any contact details of drug testing agencies.

As far as I know legal highs were made illegal over a year ago. So are an illegal drug and as such can be detected in a urine sample, thus creating a not negative result.

Clearly, you don't know shit then. There is a large number of psychoactive substances currently being sold - perfectly legally. I pointed out the list to you a few pages ago.

However, I'm glad that we've finally established that you're happy to persecute someone who may have used Cannabis sometime in the last few weeks but don't really care whether someone else who has smoked up large on legal highs, on the way to a race meeting, is given the same treatment.

What a crock of shit.

[Katman]

I have no internet.....



Are you projecting your words onto the screen via mental telepathy?

[Kickaha]

However, I'm glad that we've finally established that you're happy to persecute someone who may have used Cannabis sometime in the last few weeks

Or they may have used it in the last few minutes so fuck them

[Katman]

Or they may have used it in the last few minutes so fuck them

So perhaps the swab test is a better option than the urine test.

And how about you Warwick, do you give a fuck whether the current range of tests pick up the presence of legal highs or not?

[Kickaha]

So perhaps the swab test is a better option than the urine test.

And how about you Warwick, do you give a fuck whether the current range of tests pick up the presence of legal highs or not?

I have no idea what they test for and how they test for it, I know we have a list of medicines we cant use and maybe that list should be expanded to include all that legal high shit, fucked if I want to share the track with anyone using it

[Katman]

I have no idea what they test for and how they test for it, I know we have a list of medicines we cant use and maybe that list should be expanded to include all that legal high shit, fucked if I want to share the track with anyone using it

I find it interesting that there is no mention whatsoever on NZDDA's website regarding testing for legal highs.

I think there's a far bigger issue to address here, rather than automatically assuming that the presence of THC indicates any sort of impairment.

[onearmedbandit]

Buuuut, as several obviously well-informed members here have argued, Cannabis is illegal.

[Katman]

Buuuut, as several obviously well-informed members here have argued, Cannabis is illegal.

And I'm sure that none of those well-informed members would have ever done anything that's remotely illegal.

:innocent:

[Madness]

I'm glad that we've finally established that you're happy to persecute someone who may have used Cannabis sometime in the last few months but don't really care whether someone else who has smoked up large on legal highs, on the way to a race meeting, is given the same treatment.

What a crock of shit.

I fixed that for you.

[scumdog]

And I'm sure that none of those well-informed members would have ever done anything that's remotely illegal.

:innocent:

So??:facepalm:

[Katman]

So??:facepalm:

Do you not understand context?

[Drew]

Do you not understand context?Do you not understand that those of us who might have done something illegal, knowingly, are not arguing our right to do so?

The legal high thing is worth the powers that be looking into. That you cannot find what is and is not tested for on the NZDDA website, makes sense to me. A dedicated stoner that still had half a brain could simply swap to something not being tested if he knew it, and come to work/track baked as fuck.

You know what a zero tolerance policy is, so other than the legal high question you raise, I don't see why you continue with the "months after use" stuff.

[Katman]

You know what a zero tolerance policy is, so other than the legal high question you raise, I don't see why you continue with the "months after use" stuff.

So it's not about safety then Drew?

Perhaps it's about nothing more than a latent superiority complex.

[Drew]

So it's not about safety then Drew?I think that it is, and that zero is the right number to enforce for all mind altering substances in a race environment, to achieve that safety.


Perhaps it's about nothing more that a latent superiority complex.Mine, or that of the governing body?

I am not superior in any way. I openly admit to enjoying all sorts of substances (when good gear is available). I do get full of myself from time to time, but there's usually quite the cue formed to point out what a dick I'm being. The few times they haven't, I genuinely feel bad about when I later figure things out.

[Katman]

I think that it is, and that zero is the right number to enforce for all mind altering substances in a race environment, to achieve that safety.


Zero impairment should be sufficient Drew.

Race organisers/employers should look for a way to determine (and ensure) that - rather than making themselves the moral authority on how people should live their private lives.

Instead, they simply fall back on the weak as piss argument "But it's illegal anyway".

[Drew]

Zero impairment should be sufficient Drew.

Race organisers/employers should look for a way to determine (and ensure) that - rather than making themselves the moral authority on how people should live their private lives.

Instead, they simply fall back on the weak as piss argument "But it's illegal anyway".It seems like pandering to another minority to me sorry man.

No one is saying don't do it. We're saying don't have it in your system when you come to the track.

[Katman]

It seems like pandering to another minority to me sorry man.

No one is saying don't do it. We're saying don't have it in your system when you come to the track.

But we don't care if you're fried on legal highs.

[Katman]

It seems like pandering to another minority to me sorry man.


It's not about pandering to a minority Drew.

It's about people minding their own fucking business when someone else's business doesn't adversely impact on them.

[haydes55]

It's not about pandering to a minority Drew.



It's about people minding their own fucking business when someone else's business doesn't impact on them.



Your argument, urine testing could ban unimpaired people from racing, while allowing impaired people on the track, right?

Because the urine test mightn't cover all mind altering substances.

So stoners will switch to legal highs to get around the testing (most stoners hate the synthetics, but I could see that happening).

And fair enough, that's worth investigating.

But how will a mouth swab improve that situation any more? A mouth swab picks up less drugs, so stoners will have more alternatives to switch to.

As for minding their own business, they are. They are ensuring they can remain insurable, funded and have a positive public image.

No one is forcing anyone to take drugs or not, no one is forcing anyone to race speedway. But if you want to take on the responsibility of operating a deadly race vehicle, part of your responsibility is to have zero drugs in your system.

You are right about synthetic highs, they need to test for as many drugs as possible to avoid people dodging tested drugs with non-tested drugs.

[Katman]

But how will a mouth swab improve that situation any more? A mouth swab picks up less drugs, so stoners will have more alternatives to switch to.


Fuck's sake - you're so one dimensional aren't you.

Go for your life on the urine tests - but if a urine test shows traces of THC then do a fucking swab test to see whether it's been recent usage.

It's not fucking rocket surgery.

[Kickaha]

Go for your life on the urine tests - but if a urine test shows traces of THC then do a fucking swab test to see whether it's been recent usage.

It's not fucking rocket surgery.

Its not fucking rocket surgery to know if tested and positive you'll get told to fuck off either

[haydes55]

Fuck's sake - you're so one dimensional aren't you.



Go for your life on the urine tests - but if a urine test shows traces of THC then do a fucking swab test to see whether it's been recent usage.



It's not fucking rocket surgery.









Yup... Because that's zero tolerance.

Who are SNZ to say "this level of THC is acceptable to race"?

If they were to allow traces of a drug, they would have to allow traces of alcohol. So breathaliser readings of positive results can race?

[Katman]

Its not fucking rocket surgery to know if tested and positive you'll get told to fuck off either

If there's no impairment Warwick then it's nothing more than the superiority complex I mentioned earlier.

[Kickaha]

If there's no impairment Warwick then it's nothing more than the superiority complex I mentioned earlier.

I think we need to test you for impairment

[Katman]

I think we need to test you for impairment

There's plenty of people out there on racetracks that have a mental impairment totally unrelated to drugs Warwick.

[Drew]

There's plenty of people out there on racetracks that have a mental impairment totally unrelated to drugs Warwick.

Yeah, but it's ok 'cause we all race Sidecars together and know we're as fucked as each other.

[nodrog]

There's plenty of people out there on racetracks that have a mental impairment totally unrelated to drugs Warwick.

How is Shaun these days?

[jellywrestler]

Instead, they simply fall back on the weak as piss argument "But it's illegal anyway". not if you've indulged in a country where it is legal and returned to NZ in the meantime eh?

[jellywrestler]

http://motomatters.com/news/2013/11/23/ant_west_loses_in_doping_appeal_case_las.html

energy drinks eh, whats next If I suck on a lactating set of hooters and she's been smoking weed am I going to get pinged?
you'll be safe Drew; Goats can't smoke weed..........

[Katman]

whats next If I suck on a lactating set of hooters and she's been smoking weed am I going to get pinged?


Only if you tell us about it.

[jellywrestler]

Only if you tell us about it.

with pictures?

[Madness]

You'd be better off sucking on the nipples of a meth-whore. Providing she had abstained for a day prior, of course.

[Drew]

You'd be better off sucking on the nipples of a meth-whore. Providing she had abstained for a day prior, of course.
This is correct.

Because it means you wont ingest any illegal substances.

Fuck you're a thick cunt!

[jellywrestler]

You'd be better off sucking on the nipples of a meth-whore. Providing she had abstained for a day prior, of course.

what's your Mrs doing tonight then?

[Katman]

Fuck you're a thick cunt!

You're jealous.

[Drew]

You're jealous.
Oh yeah, big time!:lol:

[ellipsis]

...the demographics have always indicated that in god-zone, the piss culture is so ingrained that nobody from the loftiest groupings of the upper socio, rulemaking and enforcing class to the lowest perceived, sub-classes in our culture are free of the shackles of it...the pot smoking culture is as above...everything uttered after this fact is pure shite...if you wanna fuck the goose you have to fuck the gander too...not just in motorsport, general life needs the same...every politician or cop or corporate head should maybe be tested randomly and their licences suspended...just in case they fuck up and make the wrong decisions...and mountain bikers too...

[Kickaha]

.and mountain bikers too...

Hope those cunts aren't waiting at the top of Rapaki tomorrow to test us

[jellywrestler]

Hope those cunts aren't waiting at the top of Rapaki tomorrow to test us

wont worry you, you've never managed to get on top of anything.............

[Madness]

This is correct.

Because it means you wont ingest any illegal substances.

Fuck you're a thick cunt!

So you agree with my post then call me a thick cunt. Best you prey they don't develop a test for being an absolute fucking Moron, which is clear to see from your posts but then that's no more scientific than piss testing for THC in the name of safety. :facepalm:

[Madness]

what's your Mrs doing tonight then?

Not you. The woman does have some standards.

[skippa1]

Maybe........there should be a whole lot of new racing classes formed. Stoned or straight. Enter one or the other dependent on what you are into. Great spectator sport.

just throwin it out there

[Zedder]

Maybe........there should be a whole lot of new racing classes formed. Stoned or straight. Enter one or the other dependent on what you are into. Great spectator sport.

just throwin it out there

Lol, maybe have different classes, of one rider only, for different drugs/alcohol and see if they make around the track.

Quite a good research project and should be gubbermint funded...

[haydes55]

Lol, maybe have different classes, of one rider only, for different drugs/alcohol and see if they make around the track.



Quite a good research project and should be gubbermint funded...









Sounds like a good sponsorship plan haha

[Biggles08]

I read through half this thread then got bored. If you think it is ok to have ANY performance reducing agents in your blood stream while operating a race bike you have no place on the race track with me or anyone else. If I ever found out someone was found to have ANY sign of drugs or alcohol in their system after they had crashed into me or caused me to crash...if they or I were not already dead, I would make it my goal in life to ensure they NEVER got on a race track again.

You have choices in life...choose wisely...drugs/alcohol or racing...not both.

[Biggles08]

All joking aside.
If you race you have a serious responsibility to the other riders on the track.
Also to their family and yours.
They idea of testing for one drug is really not the point.
The point is attempting to change the culture some people are into.

If you want to take drugs at all, like I said join a band.

What if you do both???? :blink: my brain hurts!

[Katman]

Like I've already said, until steps are taken to ensure that legal highs are treated in the same manner, you're all just blowing smoke out of your arses.

[bluninja]

Like I've already said, until steps are taken to ensure that legal highs are treated in the same manner, you're all just blowing smoke out of your arses.

Is their a test for Arse smoke?

[Grumph]

I read through half this thread then got bored. If you think it is ok to have ANY performance reducing agents in your blood stream while operating a race bike you have no place on the race track with me or anyone else. If I ever found out someone was found to have ANY sign of drugs or alcohol in their system after they had crashed into me or caused me to crash...if they or I were not already dead, I would make it my goal in life to ensure they NEVER got on a race track again.

You have choices in life...choose wisely...drugs/alcohol or racing...not both.

Quite agree - But what I've found interesting on this thread is the immediate concentration on "recreational" drugs...

Don't any of you care that someone next to you may be using performance/stamina enhancing drugs ?

[bluninja]

Quite agree - But what I've found interesting on this thread is the immediate concentration on "recreational" drugs...

Don't any of you care that someone next to you may be using performance/stamina enhancing drugs ?

Hey, perhaps I could do a Noriuka Haga and take diuretics drugs to get my weight down.....damn I'd need a lot :laugh: How about some stimulants to get utterly focussed......and some steroids of course to make my privates smaller....every bit of weight loss counts.

Of course if you go down the performance enhancing drugs route, you'd need to do out of season testing and the like.

[Drew]

Quite agree - But what I've found interesting on this thread is the immediate concentration on "recreational" drugs...

Don't any of you care that someone next to you may be using performance/stamina enhancing drugs ?

Honestly. Nope.

Might be different if I was up against someone for the top spot and knew about it. But the likelihood is pretty low of that happening.

[Akzle]

*apparently* mouthswabs aren't asnz standards approved. (wonder which jew came up with that)
and.
dont show up positives *immediately* after smoking a doob.
but i've a suspiscion doob wouldn't show up in a piss test for a while, being fat soluble and all...

[Biggles08]

Like I've already said, until steps are taken to ensure that legal highs are treated in the same manner, you're all just blowing smoke out of your arses.

I agree with the need to eradicate all forms of chemicals that alter a racers perspective at all...legal or otherwise... but one does not excude the other. In the meantime, anyone who is knowingly partaking in 'drugs' AT ALL (for lack of better terminology) and then getting on a racebike is a potential murderer. 0% tollerance to any form of mind altering substance is the only acceptable level I am happy with...if we have a way of checking for these, whatever tests they may be, we should use them.

On other points, Motorcycle racing is not the platform to make political statements on the merits of if a drug should be legal or otherwise. As far as I feel, all mind altering substances are off limit when racing. I personally limit my alcohol consumption to max x3 beers the night before a race day and some may feel that is too excessive. Maybe they are right. I know I would pass a test in the morning however...some I have seen in the past would not have. If I ever see this again I will be bringing attention to the officials about it as it is not acceptable behaviour ever.

[nodrog]

I agree with the need to eradicate all forms of chemicals that alter a racers perspective at all...legal or otherwise... but one does not excude the other. In the meantime, anyone who is knowingly partaking in 'drugs' AT ALL (for lack of better terminology) and then getting on a racebike is a potential murderer. 0% tollerance to any form of mind altering substance is the only acceptable level I am happy with...if we have a way of checking for these, whatever tests they may be, we should use them.

On other points, Motorcycle racing is not the platform to make political statements on the merits of if a drug should be legal or otherwise. As far as I feel, all mind altering substances are off limit when racing. I personally limit my alcohol consumption to max x3 beers the night before a race day and some may feel that is too excessive. Maybe they are right. I know I would pass a test in the morning however...some I have seen in the past would not have. If I ever see this again I will be bringing attention to the officials about it as it is not acceptable behaviour ever.

don't forget, 8.30pm bedtime too.

[Katman]

don't forget, 8.30pm bedtime too.

Tucked in, lights out by 9.00?

[nodrog]

Tucked in, lights out by 9.00?

9.00pm maximum

[Biggles08]

9.00pm maximum

pfftttt...thats late on a normal night....730pm for this old man!

[onearmedbandit]

So, it's ok to consume one mind altering substance, alcohol, the night before. That's ok. But have a joint say 4 weeks ago, that makes you possibly a murderer?

Seriously, that is fucked up. Period.

[Drew]

So, it's ok to consume one mind altering substance, alcohol, the night before. That's ok. But have a joint say 4 weeks ago, that makes you possibly a murderer?

Seriously, that is fucked up. Period.

The only issue with weed, is the levels detected. Creating an official level of nil impairment, is not currently possible because the drug is illegal. So the only number anyone can set for a pass result is zero.

Far as I can see, that's the end of the story.

[Katman]

Creating an official level of nil impairment, is not currently possible because the drug is illegal.

No Drew, a test for actual impairment is not being looked for simply because the drug is illegal.

Testing for traces instead of impairment is simply the easy option.

[haydes55]

No Drew, a test for actual impairment is not being looked for simply because the drug is illegal.



Testing for traces instead of impairment is simply the easy option.







Exactly, it is the easy option, and why should an official body pander to druggies?

[Katman]

Exactly, it is the easy option, and why should an official body pander to druggies?

Ah, so it's simply about you (and the official bodies) feeling morally superior then?

And it certainly seems like they're pandering to them already considering they don't seem at all interested in testing for legal highs.

[budda]

ah, so it's simply about you (and the official bodies) feeling morally superior then?

And it certainly seems like they're pandering to them already considering they don't seem at all interested in testing for legal highs.

o.f.f.s. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Katman]

o.f.f.s. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your contribution.

Are you saying that they do test for legal highs or are you just showing us that you know three letters of the alphabet?

[unstuck]

The drug testing continues. Well done NZ, we are putting out some pretty top quality drugs at the moment, keep up the good work.:niceone:

[haydes55]

Ah, so it's simply about you (and the official bodies) feeling morally superior then?

And it certainly seems like they're pandering to them already considering they don't seem at all interested in testing for legal highs.










I'm lost. How is that making anyone superior? It's about removing drugs from a dangerous sport. You are right about removing legal highs. I'm trying to find out info on that.

Where your logic flaws me is that because legal highs mightn't be picked up we shouldn't test for weed? I'd rather test for 90% of drugs than 20% of drugs.

It's not ideal, but better than just letting it slide and putting competitors in undue risk.

I don't give a shit if anyone wants to follow Amy Winehouse and take care of themselves, but as soon as other people have their lives in your hands, you have a legal and moral obligation to do all within your power to take your responsibility with due care. Taking any drugs shows you have no care for others lives.

[Katman]

Where your logic flaws me is that because legal highs mightn't be picked up we shouldn't test for weed? I'd rather test for 90% of drugs than 20% of drugs.


Do you just read words without even trying to figure out what they mean?

I have never said that you shouldn't test for weed. I have said that if safety is your concern here then testing for impairment is the logical answer. The swab test that you mentioned in the first post should be the starting point in testing for THC if safety is indeed your primary concern. Testing for traces in urine (regardless of how long ago the use may have been) is simply taking the morally superior/easy option.

[unstuck]

Taking any drugs shows you have no care for others lives.

Please explain how me getting stoned makes me not care about others lives????

Not that I do care about others lives you understand, cos I could give a flying fuck about others lives. :nono:

[jasonu]

Testing for traces instead of impairment is simply the easy option.

No, the easy option is if you intend to partake in motorcycle racing, don't partake in doobie smoking.

[Katman]

No, the easy option is if you intend to partake in motorcycle racing, don't partake in doobie smoking.

If a motorcycle racer has zero impairment from smoking a doobie 4 weeks ago, what concern should it be of anyone else's?

[haydes55]

If a motorcycle racer has zero impairment from smoking a doobie 4 weeks ago, what concern should it be of anyone else's?





If a test shows traces of THC, what concern should it be of how much is present?

Zero is the number below 1. It is also the limit of any drug whilst other peoples lives are in your hands. ZERO. Can you count to zero? (Ironically I think it's technically impossible to count to zero).

[jasonu]

If a motorcycle racer has zero impairment from smoking a doobie 4 weeks ago, what concern should it be of anyone else's?

The problem/issue you are stuck on is the test doesn't or can't show impairment, only the presence of certain drugs that can cause impairment.
If the test is positive maybe they are impaired, maybe not. Why take the chance. If it is in the rules and the rules are available to everyone and the rules state zero tolerance then there is no excuse or valid reason to show a positive test result and expect to race on a track with other people that tested negative.
These are the rules all competitors agree to. Positive test result = fuck off.

[nodrog]

So if a Paedophile applied for a babysitting job, and they asked "do you like fucking kids?" and he said "yeah I do, but I haven't fucked any for 4 weeks, and I still like to, but I wont while I look after your kids". That would be sweet as.

[onearmedbandit]

So if a Paedophile applied for a babysitting job, and they asked "do you like fucking kids?" and he said "yeah I do, but I haven't fucked any for 4 weeks, and I still like to, but I wont while I look after your kids". That would be sweet as.

Come on I'd expect better trolling than that from you.

[nodrog]

Come on I'd expect better trolling than that from you.

Im not trolling, im trying to apply stoner logic to the situation.

[Katman]

The problem/issue you are stuck on is the test doesn't or can't show impairment.....

The swab test at least indicates whether the usage was recent or not.

[haydes55]

And maybe someone who would pass a swab and fail a urine test could still be impaired.

[jasonu]

The swab test at least indicates whether the usage was recent or not.

Do they use that test at the track?

[Katman]

Do they use that test at the track?

Did you even read post #1?

[Katman]

And maybe someone who would pass a swab and fail a urine test could still be impaired.

Here you go - educate yourself.

http://www.forensicfluids.com/oral_v_urine.htm

http://drugtestaustraliablog.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/urine-vs-saliva-drug-testing.html

http://www.nadcp.org/sites/default/files/nadcp/Oral%20Fluid%20Drug%20Testing%20Foils%20Cheaters.p df

[haydes55]

Here you go - educate yourself.



http://www.forensicfluids.com/oral_v_urine.htm


Funny how that website sells oral testing..... I bet a website selling urine testing will highlight different points.

That site also says urine will show THC up to an average of 24 hours to 120 hours. So more often than not, smoking within a week of racing will be picked up, but past 5 days would be less common to get a positive result.

Posting biased references won't win you an argument.

[Katman]

Posting biased references won't win you an argument.

Type 'oral versus urine drug testing' into Google and do your own research then.

[onearmedbandit]

Im not trolling, im trying to apply stoner logic to the situation.

Shit then it's a pretty piss poor analogy.

[nodrog]

Shit then it's a pretty piss poor analogy.

whatever, it had heaps of anal in it.

[onearmedbandit]

whatever, it had heaps of anal in it.

That it did! :buggerd:

[Biggles08]

I'm lost. How is that making anyone superior? It's about removing drugs from a dangerous sport. You are right about removing legal highs. I'm trying to find out info on that.

Where your logic flaws me is that because legal highs mightn't be picked up we shouldn't test for weed? I'd rather test for 90% of drugs than 20% of drugs.

It's not ideal, but better than just letting it slide and putting competitors in undue risk.

I don't give a shit if anyone wants to follow Amy Winehouse and take care of themselves, but as soon as other people have their lives in your hands, you have a legal and moral obligation to do all within your power to take your responsibility with due care. Taking any drugs shows you have no care for others lives.

Your problem is you are making wayyy too much sense for Kiwibiker. This is entertainment for the likes of KATMAN and he really doesn't give a flying fuck about how serious this issue is in NZ. He will never understand how bad it is to have ANY mind altering substances in your system and go racing...he doesn't give a fuck cause this is a game to him...unlike those who have died in the past because they were not 100% kosher. People like this are a waste of both yours and my time. Let it go.:niceone:

[Katman]

Your problem is you are making wayyy too much sense for Kiwibiker. This is entertainment for the likes of KATMAN and he really doesn't give a flying fuck about how serious this issue is in NZ. He will never understand how bad it is to have ANY mind altering substances in your system and go racing...he doesn't give a fuck cause this is a game to him...unlike those who have died in the past because they were not 100% kosher. People like this are a waste of both yours and my time. Let it go.:niceone:

So let's recap......

I find it incredible that no effort seems to be going into testing for legal highs and I think it's morally inept to condemn someone for showing a trace of THC in their system instead of trying to determine whether they are actually impaired, and yet you think it's me who's treating this subject lightly?

I hope you're better at racing than you are at participating in a grown-ups conversation.

[nodrog]

So let's recap......

I find it incredible that no effort seems to be going into testing for legal highs.....

is this classed as an effort?



The Sports Anti-Doping rules made by Drug Free Sport New Zealand (DFS) under the provisions of the Sports Anti-Doping Act 2006, will become Motorcycling New Zealand's Anti-Doping Rules


http://www.drugfreesport.org.nz/site/drugfreesport-redesign/files/Documents//2013%20Sports%20Anti%20Doping%20Rules.pdf
http://www.drugfreesport.org.nz/site/drugfreesport-redesign/WADA-prohibited-list-2014-EN.pdf

[Katman]

is this classed as an effort?


I don't know - do they make any mention of the legal highs that we currently have on the market?

[Biggles08]

So let's recap......

"blaa blaa....I think it's morally inept to condemn someone for showing a trace of THC in their system... blaaa blaa

Who's taking the moral high ground now Katman? Anyway, I'm over this already. If you cared you would see no one disagrees with you about how bad it is legal highs are and racing...this DOES NOT EXCLUDE HOW BAD OTHER DRUGS/MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES LIKE WEED ARE HOWEVER...got it???

Like I said, this is entertainment for you and that is all.

[Katman]

this DOES NOT EXCLUDE HOW BAD OTHER DRUGS/MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES LIKE WEED ARE HOWEVER...got it???


Are you still talking in the context of racing?

If those mind altering substances are impairing ones judgement at the time of racing then I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

If, on the other hand, you are saying other drugs/mind altering substances like weed are bad regardless of what one may or may not be participating in, then it is quite clearly you who is taking the moral high ground.

[nodrog]

I don't know - do they make any mention of the legal highs that we currently have on the market?

yes

__________________

[Katman]

yes

__________________

Take my hand and lead me there.

[nodrog]

Take my hand and lead me there.

Where has it been first?

theres a list of naughty ingredients in one of those links.

[Katman]

theres a list of naughty ingredients in one of those links.

Ok, so I finally managed to find synthetic cannabinoids on the prohibited list - without holding your hand.

Do the current testing methods have the ability to identify all of the current legal highs?

[jellywrestler]

No, the easy option is if you intend to partake in motorcycle racing, don't partake in doobie smoking.

what if you just dont inhale?

[scrivy]

what if you just dont inhale?

That's abit like saying the cheques in your mouth and I won't come in your mailbox..... :facepalm:

errr... you know what I mean..... :shutup:

[jasonu]

what if you just dont inhale?

As long as you don't swallow it should be OK...

[Katman]

As long as you don't swallow it should be OK...

So what happened when you swallowed?

[kiwi cowboy]

If a test shows traces of THC, what concern should it be of how much is present?

Zero is the number below 1. It is also the limit of any drug whilst other peoples lives are in your hands. ZERO. Can you count to zero? (Ironically I think it's technically impossible to count to zero).

10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1,0:bleh: so what do I win.

[jasonu]

So what happened when you swallowed?

Well I wouldn't know about but being the biggest dick sucker on here you would know best:tugger::motu:

[Katman]

Well I wouldn't know about but being the biggest dick sucker on here you would know best:tugger::motu:

Hey, it wasn't me warning people of the perils of swallowing.

[unstuck]

Swallowing or inhaling, know which one I would prefer.:doobey:

[Katman]

Swallowing or inhaling, know which one I would prefer.:doobey:

I don't think Jason smokes though.

[Biggles08]

Are you still talking in the context of racing?

If those mind altering substances are impairing ones judgement at the time of racing then I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

If, on the other hand, you are saying other drugs/mind altering substances like weed are bad regardless of what one may or may not be participating in, then it is quite clearly you who is taking the moral high ground.

Too much weed tonight KATMAN? Had you extended your quote of my earlier post you would have your answer...here let me do it for you:

"...no one disagrees with you about how bad it is legal highs are and racing...this DOES NOT EXCLUDE HOW BAD OTHER DRUGS/MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES LIKE WEED ARE HOWEVER...got it???"

again...got it?

This isn't a game...drugs/alcohol mixed with racing are stupid...I don't care if you smoke weed or what the hell you want to take...just don't expect any sympathy from me if you get on the track with me after doing so in an amount of time that it still shows in your system with whatever test is used...if it is five weeks before it clears your system then fucking wait five weeks before you race a bike....no mistake in how I feel about it...you are a fuckwit and a potential murderer if you do... Its pretty simple...don't ever mix the two. :brick:

[Katman]

Too much weed tonight KATMAN?

You know nothing about me shitforbrains.

[Drew]

Want to get into the shit fight, but I tend to argue tooth and nail with the two current protagonists.

I DUNNO WHAT TO DO!!!

[Biggles08]

You know nothing about me shitforbrains.

haha...umm...yeah I think I do.

I think my mistake actually was taking a thread on KB too seriously! WTF was I thinking!

Oh and come on Drew...you know you want to :nya:

[Drew]

Oh and come on Drew...you know you want to :nya:Fuck up Maurice!

[Katman]

I think my mistake actually was taking a thread on KB too seriously! WTF was I thinking!


I'm totally serious about every post I've made in this thread. (Even the ones about Jason swallowing).

Go back and read my posts carefully. I'm prepared to stand behind every one of them.

[Drew]

I'm totally serious about every post I've made in this thread. (Even the ones about Jason swallowing).

Go back and read my posts carefully. I'm prepared to stand behind every one of them.Be nice if you stood in front of someone elses for once, and tried to see things from their view point.

[Katman]

Be nice if you stood in front of someone elses for once, and tried to see things from their view point.

I'm happy to consider anyone else's viewpoint.

If I think it's shit though, I'll tell them so.

[jasonu]

I'm happy to consider anyone else's viewpoint.

If I think it's shit though, I'll tell them so.

The trouble is that you think EVERYONE ELSES point of view is shit if it is not the same as yours.

[Katman]

This isn't a game...drugs/alcohol mixed with racing are stupid...I don't care if you smoke weed or what the hell you want to take...just don't expect any sympathy from me if you get on the track with me after doing so in an amount of time that it still shows in your system with whatever test is used...if it is five weeks before it clears your system then fucking wait five weeks before you race a bike....no mistake in how I feel about it...you are a fuckwit and a potential murderer if you do... Its pretty simple...don't ever mix the two. :brick:

So tell me Marcus, who do you think poses the greater threat to your safety - someone who has three beers the night before a race meeting or someone who smokes a joint three weeks before a race meeting?

[jellywrestler]

The trouble is that you think EVERYONE ELSES point of view is shit if it is not the same as yours.

and their bikes...

[Drew]

So tell me Marcus, who do you think poses the greater threat to your safety - someone who has three beers the night before a race meeting or someone who smokes a joint three weeks before a race meeting?We get what you're saying. No one has even argued with it.

If you keep posting the same thing repeatedly, do we have to also?

[Katman]

We get what you're saying. No one has even argued with it.

If you keep posting the same thing repeatedly, do we have to also?

I'm just intrigued as to how deep Marcus's hypocrisy runs.

[Drew]

I'm just intrigued as to how deep Marcus's hypocrisy runs.
I'm sure as with all of us, pretty deep.

[Grubber]

Well I wouldn't know about but being the biggest dick sucker on here you would know best:tugger::motu:

Hahahaha:killingme i didnt even read his posts and i still know your exactly right.:2thumbsup:clap::nya::rockon:

[onearmedbandit]

This isn't a game...drugs/alcohol mixed with racing are stupid...I don't care if you smoke weed or what the hell you want to take...just don't expect any sympathy from me if you get on the track with me after doing so in an amount of time that it still shows in your system with whatever test is used...if it is five weeks before it clears your system then fucking wait five weeks before you race a bike....no mistake in how I feel about it...you are a fuckwit and a potential murderer if you do... Its pretty simple...don't ever mix the two. :brick:

3 beers the night before could still show up in your system potentially.

[imdying]

Taking any drugs shows you have no care for others lives.Indeed, many drugs have an effect on the brain... Ya hear that girls, you better stay off the pill... All of those artifical hormones messing with your brain, they show you have no care for others lives.

Up the bum no babies!

[haydes55]

Indeed, many drugs have an effect on the brain... Ya hear that girls, you better stay off the pill... All of those artifical hormones messing with your brain, they show you have no care for others lives.



Up the bum no babies!










Lol that's 2 times that sentence has been quoted without the sentence before it.

[imdying]

I guess that shows how inane it was :baby:

[steveyb]

Up the bum no babies!

The Greeks used to say (apparently) Girls for babies, boys for fun.....

[jellywrestler]

The Greeks used to say (apparently) Girls for babies, boys for fun.....

I never new the name Bagshaw had greek heritage till today, thanks Steve...

[budda]

I never new the name Bagshaw had greek heritage till today, thanks Steve...

All those Victoria Toga Parties might have been a clue ?????????

[Biggles08]

So tell me Marcus, who do you think poses the greater threat to your safety - someone who has three beers the night before a race meeting or someone who smokes a joint three weeks before a race meeting?

Most likely neither pose a risk...its not the point and irrelevant to reality as both examples have testing in place to measure substance participation...and more importantly both are measured to a legal level.

Your gripe as I can tell is racing authoritys dont turn a blind eye to illegal activity...you may be right in that it shouldn't be illegal but motorcycle racing is not the forum to push this agenda. Currently the testing available is able to measure weed taken (apparently) 5 weeks prior to the day of the testing...the allowable level for this currently is 0% (as per the illegal status of weed), If you feel this is unfair go ahead and rally for the legal status to be changed but until then I am very happy for someone that is found to have any THC in their system to be removed from competition...in fact I would expect no less.

[Katman]

Your gripe as I can tell is racing authoritys dont turn a blind eye to illegal activity...

What right do racing authorities have to place themselves in the position of The Great Defender of Public Morality?

They should concern themselves with the issue of whether people competing in their events are impaired or not.

While not a perfect fix, the swab test should be integral in the process of determining the likelihood of impairment.

[Biggles08]

What right do racing authorities have to place themselves in the position of The Great Defender of Public Morality.

They should concern themselves with the issue of whether people competing in their events are impaired or not.

While not a perfect fix, the swab test should be integral in the process of determining the possibility of impairment.

They are not placing themselves in any position...they are abiding by the LEGAL status already in place set outside of their control!?!? You are suggesting they turn a blind eye to this LAW.

Fuck, I really didn't think you were that thick but once again I appear to have given you too much credit.

I'm out...Ive already wasted too much time on you.

[Katman]

They are not placing themselves in any position...they are abiding by the LEGAL status already in place set outside of their control!?!? You are suggesting they turn a blind eye to this LAW.



I thought their obligation was to try to ensure the highest safety that they can for their competitors.

The presence of THC in someone's system does not necessarily indicate that they pose the slightest danger to anyone else competing.

If someone fails the urine test, a swab test should automatically be implemented to determine whether that trace of THC is from recent use.

Quite frankly, I think you're a greater danger to those around you after three beers the night before than someone who smoked a joint three weeks ago.

[roogazza]

If Nigella's entry is declined for the Suzuki series I'll gladly put her up.
290684 :drool:

[Katman]

If Nigella's entry is declined for the Suzuki series I'll gladly put her up.
290684 :drool:

I think her cocaine habit dabbling has done wonders for reducing her arse.

[jonbuoy]

What right do racing authorities have to place themselves in the position of The Great Defender of Public Morality?

They should concern themselves with the issue of whether people competing in their events are impaired or not.

While not a perfect fix, the swab test should be integral in the process of determining the likelihood of impairment.

Are you a regular dope smoker?

[Katman]

Are you a regular dope smoker?

This thread's not about me.

[skippa1]

Interesting that those that don't race are the most vocal and outspoken about this, defending "rights" to smoke and participate (even if there has been days or weeks between the two events)or arguing about the suitability of the tests.

those that race should choose. I haven't seen any racer here say they would be happy to share the course with anyone that has THC in their system. These guys take the risks on the track, let them decide what's fair and what isn't.

[Katman]

Interesting that those that don't race are the most vocal and outspoken about this, defending "rights" to smoke and participate (even if there has been days or weeks between the two events)or arguing about the suitability of the tests.


I'm not actually 'defending' anything.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of racing authorities placing themselves in the position of being nothing more than mindless government puppets - along with the hypocrisy of those racers who see no problem with getting on the piss the night before a race event.

[skippa1]

I'm not actually 'defending' anything.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of racing authorities placing themselves in the position of being mindless government puppets - along with the hypocrisy of those racers who see no problem with getting on the piss the night before a race event.

Hairy muff. But Isn't it their right to hold a view, hypocritical or not, as they are the ones taking the risks?

[Katman]

Hairy muff. But Isn't it their right to hold a view, hypocritical or not, as they are the ones taking the risks?

Individuals can hold any views they like.

Just like me.

[skippa1]

Individuals can hold any views they like.

Just like me.

Yeah but like you say, it's not about you

[Katman]

Yeah but like you say, it's not about you

Exactly - I'm just voicing my opinion.

[skippa1]

Exactly - I'm just voicing my opinion.

Again, hairy muff, but ultimately it's those that race that really have the most valid and relevant opinion. We can pontificate about the rights or wrongs of THC, tests, timing, rules, legalities, self appointed law enforcers.......but we don't put on our leathers and skid around the course for glory or fame.

i would be interested to hear from someone who races and doesn't give a fuck about what their fellow competitors partake in.....probably won't though. Could shorten their race career

[Katman]

Again, hairy muff, but ultimately it's those that race that really have the most valid and relevant opinion.

What if those same racers don't see any problem with drinking alcohol the night before an event?

[skippa1]

What if those same racers don't see any problem with drinking alcohol the night before an event?

It's up to those that race to set the standard. If the standard is a breathalyser for alcohol and a piss test for drugs, then that's what it is. I may have an opinion on that, but they have the say.

[Kickaha]

What if those same racers don't see any problem with drinking alcohol the night before an event?

Haven't seen it at MNZ events but when I was involved in truck racing there was random breath testing on the morning of the event

[Katman]

I may have an opinion on that, but they have the say.

No shit.

Did you really think I believed that the instant I opened my mouth, the powers that be would rewrite the rules according to the dictate of Katman?

Like I said, I'm simply voicing my opinion.

[skippa1]

No shit.

Did you really think I believed that the instant I opened my mouth, the powers that be would rewrite the rules according to the dictate of Katman?

Like I said, I'm simply voicing my opinion.
Agreed. Like I said before, it's just interesting that the opinions of those that call into question the governing body, the testing or opinions of those that race, don't race themselves.

[Katman]

Agreed. Like I said before, it's just interesting that the opinions of those that call into question the governing body, the testing or opinions of those that race, don't race themselves.

And like you said before, there could be a very good reason for that.

(And it's not necessarily because all racers agree with the current reasoning).

[skippa1]

And like you said before, there could be a very good reason for that.

(And it's not necessarily because all racers agree with the current reasoning).

Looks like I'm right on all counts then. Righto, I'm off to other threads, ta ta

[haydes55]

I'm not actually 'defending' anything.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of racing authorities placing themselves in the position of being nothing more than mindless government puppets - along with the hypocrisy of those racers who see no problem with getting on the piss the night before a race event.










Yes, surprisingly, a racing governing body has to follow the law......

Legally, having to provide measures to reduce risks to all involved. Legally, marijuana (using the big word to sound smarter than me is) is classed as a mind altering illegal substance. Since this has potential to alter competitors minds (according to the government) which could impede split second, life saving decisions, measures need to be in place to eliminate it's presence.
The best test, will be the test which detects more THC.

There is no guarantee that anyone with any level of THC in any bodily fluid isn't impeded. there is no study which says that THC present in Urine and not saliva will definitely not impede every single person (all shapes sizes and metabolisms).

Since it can not be guaranteed, it can not be allowed. Hence ZERO tolerance.

[Katman]

Yes, surprisingly, a racing governing body has to follow the law......

Legally, having to provide measures to reduce risks to all involved. Legally, marijuana (using the big word to sound smarter than me is) is classed as a mind altering illegal substance. Since this has potential to alter competitors minds (according to the government) which could impede split second, life saving decisions, measures need to be in place to eliminate it's presence.
The best test, will be the test which detects more THC.

There is no guarantee that anyone with any level of THC in any bodily fluid isn't impeded. there is no study which says that THC present in Urine and not saliva will definitely not impede every single person (all shapes sizes and metabolisms).

Since it can not be guaranteed, it can not be allowed. Hence ZERO tolerance.

But a swab test would certainly provide a far more accurate indication of the possibility of impairment.

Oh, that's right - you don't want to incur the cost.

It's far cheaper to ride roughshod over people's liberties.

[Katman]

Yes, surprisingly, a racing governing body has to follow the law......


Do they ban anyone who has demerit points?

[oneblackflag]

Do they ban anyone who has demerit points?

I would have thought someone with demerit points (especially from multiple infringements) would be showing signs of a risk taking/reckless personality, they could quite possibly be putting other racers safety at risk on the track (almost certainly more so than the racer that passed the doobie 3 weeks ago while at his mates 30th).

[haydes55]

But a swab test would certainly provide a far more accurate indication of the possibility of impairment.

Oh, that's right - you don't want to incur the cost.

It's far cheaper to ride roughshod over people's liberties.










Read my post a second time, with your glasses on old man :P

I said, you can't guarantee that THC only impedes those who have THC in their saliva.

As for demerits, that's just a stupid argument, no racing body is trying to enforce unrelated laws. What you do when you drive in public is entirely up to the police to reduce risk. When it comes to racing, it is up to the officials to reduce risk. Treating the road rules with no respect has no reflection on how a person treats racing rules. If I raced like I drove I'd merge into the first corner, so penalty points for driving are a retarded comparison when they are completely different situations.

[Berries]

I would have thought someone with demerit points (especially from multiple infringements) would be showing signs of a risk taking/reckless personality, they could quite possibly be putting other racers safety at risk on the track (almost certainly more so than the racer that passed the doobie 3 weeks ago while at his mates 30th).
Wow. Isn't riding a motorbike showing signs of risk taking? Or does everyone ride around at 30km/h on your track?

[oneblackflag]

Wow. Isn't riding a motorbike showing signs of risk taking? Or does everyone ride around at 30km/h on your track?

Yes riding is risky isn't it. I don't see how the guy who smoked 3 weeks ago and is not currently impaired contributes one bit of fuck all to an increased safety risk.

If you keep getting demerit points for speeding etc it seems logical to me that you are more prone to taking risks than your average rider (possibly just unlucky huh?). If its relevant to test and ban people for things they do in their private life (that don't necessarily impair their performance on track), why would it be irrelevant to look into their traffic violations in the interests of safety? Hell why stop there, there could be guys that are terribly depressed, maybe suicidal coming to race... better do a psychological evaluation pre race too.

[oneblackflag]

Treating the road rules with no respect has no reflection on how a person treats racing rules.

How do you know this?

[onearmedbandit]

Interesting that those that don't race are the most vocal and outspoken about this, defending "rights" to smoke and participate (even if there has been days or weeks between the two events)or arguing about the suitability of the tests.

those that race should choose. I haven't seen any racer here say they would be happy to share the course with anyone that has THC in their system. These guys take the risks on the track, let them decide what's fair and what isn't.


Oh I guarantee there are racers here who have consumed cannabis with 8wks of racing here who are holding their tongue.

[skippa1]

Oh I guarantee there are racers here who have consumed cannabis with 8wks of racing here who are holding their tongue.

No doubt about that, in fact I eluded to that very thing a few posts back.

What i am saying, is it's up to those that race and their governing body to make the rules, not those with a keyboard. That includes the type of test used, when and where.....

[McWild]

I think we can all agree that if you ride motorcycles, especially if you race motorcycles, you don't care about your own life or anybody else's.

So it's really a moot point.

[Kickaha]

I think we can all agree that if you ride motorcycles, especially if you race motorcycles, you don't care about your own life or anybody else's.

So it's really a moot point.

I dont agree with that at all you ginga gollywog

[budda]

No doubt about that, in fact I eluded to that very thing a few posts back.

What i am saying, is it's up to those that race and their governing body to make the rules, not those with a keyboard. That includes the type of test used, when and where.....

MmmmHmmmmmm .........

[haydes55]

Yes riding is risky isn't it. I don't see how the guy who smoked 3 weeks ago and is not currently impaired contributes one bit of fuck all to an increased safety risk.



If you keep getting demerit points for speeding etc it seems logical to me that you are more prone to taking risks than your average rider (possibly just unlucky huh?). If its relevant to test and ban people for things they do in their private life (that don't necessarily impair their performance on track), why would it be irrelevant to look into their traffic violations in the interests of safety? Hell why stop there, there could be guys that are terribly depressed, maybe suicidal coming to race... better do a psychological evaluation pre race too.









If someone had a joint 3 weeks ago, and is NOT impaired, that competitor is no risk to safety.

If another has a joint 3 weeks ago, turns up on race day and IS impaired, this competitor is a risk to safety.

How can these two be distinguished?
Unless it can be proven that EVERY person (from a 45kg 16 year old girl, to a frail 72 year old), will not be impaired after X amount of time, then zero has to be the limit.

No one is arguing that if you have any THC in your system, you must be high. But THC in your system proves you COULD be impaired. "Could" is reason enough, in terms of risk management.

[Bassmatt]

The best test, will be the test which detects more THC.

There is no guarantee that anyone with any level of THC in any bodily fluid isn't impeded. there is no study which says that THC present in Urine and not saliva will definitely not impede every single person (all shapes sizes and metabolisms).

Since it can not be guaranteed, it can not be allowed. Hence ZERO tolerance.

Bloody hell, the urine tests dont find THC in your piss. THC does not stay in your body for weeks. The tests show the presence of the metabolites (look it up) of THC remaining in the body.
The fact you don't know what your talking about makes your argument pretty fucken weak.

[Katman]

Read my post a second time, with your glasses on old man :P


I don't need glasses. The problem here is your inability to grasp logic.

If someone loses their license for careless, dangerous or reckless driving, do MNZ/SNZ suspend their racing license as well?

It would seem to me that anyone who is guilty of any of those offences could very well pose a great risk to those around them on a racetrack. They'd be the sort of person who might try to stuff their bike down the inside going into a hairpin where there's no room to do so or brake check someone behind them just for a laugh.

[Madness]

Hayden, if you actually believe that anyone could still be impaired at all 3 weeks after ingesting Cannabis then quite frankly you're even more of a muppet than your earlier posts in this thread suggested. The effects of Cannabis last 2-3 hours, up to 10 if ingested orally.

Skippa, you are correct in that it is up to SNZ, MNZ & their respective members to decide on this issue. Please consider that the OP posted this on a public forum for discussion, which is exactly what has resulted. In light of the way that SNZ seem to want to embark on this witch hunt, there is probably more balanced discussion on the subject happening here than there ever could be through official channels.

[Katman]

This is taken straight from MNZ's website listing what they consider to be misconduct.

(ix) Competing in, or controlling, any event while under the influence of alcohol or any judgment impairing drug. As regards alcohol, a person is considered 'under the influence' if their alcohol reading exceeds the youth alcohol limit permitted for driving on a public road.

Considering that the youth alcohol limit has only fairly recently been changed to a zero limit, it would appear that prior to that ruling coming into effect, you could have had a couple of beers on the morning of an event and probably still been good to go.

[kiwi cowboy]

I'm not actually 'defending' anything.

I'm pointing out the absurdity of racing authorities placing themselves in the position of being nothing more than mindless government puppets - along with the hypocrisy of those racers who see no problem with getting on the piss the night before a race event.

Katman while I agree with some of what you are saying I disagree when you say the authorities are being mindless puppets.

The reason could be that if there was a fatal or serious crash and tests were done and found to contain THC or other substance the OSH and other parties would try to crucify the MNZ and or the club running the event.
There only really covering there arses and rightly so in my opinion as having talked to some of the guys running an event where a death accured the pressure on them to show everything was done properly was high (and every thing was right I would like to point out).