Motorcyclists 23% safer behind the wheel - no surprises there?

[pritch]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/motorcyclists-23-better-behind-the-wheel-of-a-car/23971.html

[Scuba_Steve]

What's that trendy interwebbery thing? something like #ACC

[SMOKEU]

I have noticed that I'm much more weary of hazards when driving since I started riding compared to when I was just a cager.

[caspernz]

Funnily enough, when I was doing driver training for truck drivers...I found most bikers to be better truckers than non-riders. Not all of course, but enough to see a trend. Now how do I submit those findings to ACC? Basically better situational awareness and anticipation, which seems logical when you think about it.

[bogan]

23% safer, or 23% deader from riding those pesky PTWs into trees?

Or just riding the bikes so car use is only 23% what is was...

[Maha]

So bikers that also drive a car, still have accidents, and less than 1/4 of those who also drive are less likely (on average) to make a claim on their car policy? The figures would stack better if the percentage was above 50%.

[Zedder]

I have noticed that I'm much more weary of hazards when driving since I started riding compared to when I was just a cager.

If you're weary of hazards, you probably need a break from driving.

[Zedder]

Funnily enough, when I was doing driver training for truck drivers...I found most bikers to be better truckers than non-riders. Not all of course, but enough to see a trend. Now how do I submit those findings to ACC? Basically better situational awareness and anticipation, which seems logical when you think about it.

Submit your findings to ACC?!? They only want data that shows motorcycling is dangerous.

[imdying]

Of course they are less likely to claim on their car policy, they're riding their bike.

Another way to twist that data is that a motorcyclist with both a car and bike policy is 100% more likely to make a claim on their motorcycle insurance policy than somebody who only drives a car.

Lies damned lies and statistics.

[Zedder]

Of course they are less likely to claim on their car policy, they're riding their bike.

Another way to twist that data is that a motorcyclist with both a car and bike policy is 100% more likely to make a claim on their motorcycle insurance policy than somebody who only drives a car.

Lies damned lies and statistics.

I tried finding more info on it but there's nothing available. Like Bogan, you and Maha write, it's more about what isn't given as data than what is.

[imdying]

Correlation is not causation I think sums it up. This is an insurance company, not a statistical analysis company. In other words, you can basically consider anything they have to say to be a twisting of the truth, or perhaps in the case just straight up ignorance.

[baffa]

You're not reading this properly. That is a huge margin.

Claims include anything from theft, to claiming for damage caused by others (known or unknown) as well as where the insured is at fault.

Obviously owning a bike doesnt stop your car from being stolen, so the only difference here will be the at fault claims, and say if we assume that is 50% of the claims an insurance company receives, that percentage alludes to bikers having almost half as many at fault claims as non riders, which is fking massive.

Also, the other part of the story it doesnt tell is why the bikers are having less claims. Obviously the logic is because they are more aware of their surroundings, and more pro active with their driving, and avoiding accidents.

So think about this. If I hit someone at 100 kph, or 20 kph, its still a claim.
So its not just that the bikers claim less, but one could argue, that the claims they do have, are likely to be smaller.

[SPman]

The insurer examined 200 million policies between 2007 and 2012.

That's a lot of corelation......

[Ocean1]

I tried finding more info on it but there's nothing available. Like Bogan, you and Maha write, it's more about what isn't given as data than what is.


Correlation is not causation I think sums it up. This is an insurance company, not a statistical analysis company. In other words, you can basically consider anything they have to say to be a twisting of the truth, or perhaps in the case just straight up ignorance.

Aye, they lie like sausages in fat, but in this case we're looking at raw data, they've made no inference at all.

So let's do it for them, eh? A difference that size is fairly easilly explained by the likely difference in the distance licenced riders travel in cars. If it was 75% of the average car-only driver you'd expect that result.

It's also possible bike riders make fewer claims in both car and bike classes...

[baffa]

Ever get the feeling you're talking to yourself?

I feel like a beer.

[haydes55]

I don't know how cars crash..... You'd have to be mentally retarded to have a car crash once you've learnt to drive. If you still can't keep your car in your lane and away from other cars, check yourself into a psychiatric centre, surrender your car to the police and employ Somalians to drive you around.

I've had my work van for over 2 years and over 100,000km. I've put 1 dent in it.... I hit a rock that fell off the back of a truck heading the other direction, it bounced up and hit above the headlight. I went away on holiday for 2 weeks to Aussie, come back and the new guy had used my van, the wheels are curbed, there's a massive ding under the sliding door that's starting to rust and the aerial has been snapped in 2. And he was surprised he didn't last the 90 day trial.

[Zedder]

Aye, they lie like sausages in fat, but in this case we're looking at raw data, they've made no inference at all.

So let's do it for them, eh? A difference that size is fairly easilly explained by the likely difference in the distance licenced riders travel in cars. If it was 75% of the average car-only driver you'd expect that result.

It's also possible bike riders make fewer claims in both car and bike classes...

This is not raw data as I know it ie:primary data. In fact, the article states that figures were adjusted.

You're on the right track regarding distance travelled, that's the type of extra info I was after.

[paturoa]

The reason could be that the shit motorcycle riders have self selected themselves (Darwin) out of the sample set, and we are only left with the motorcyclists that have core competencies, that make them safer.

Whereas, shit car drivers are more likely to survive and continue driving cars.

[Trade_nancy]

When closing down on in the critical stages preceding final School Cert exams (swat) back in 1972 my good ol mum decided to spend her hard earned working cash to buy me a 125cc m/bike as a 1st vehicle for 6th form..and as a bribe to not fuck up the exams I guess. We lived next door to a bike cop (used a BSA Lightning).....she went and asked him about the safety or lack of it....not convinced she was doing the right thing...he told her "go get him a bike and make him join the bike riding school....once he's ridden a bike - he'll become a much safer car driver later". She did. I did. He was right.
Today as I pottered down Bourke Street through town - a young wench backed her Honda Prelude out of her driveway and across my path onto the opposite side of the road. She never saw me till I leaned on the horn while stopped right beside her as she started to move away...and asked her if she was blind and needed fucking by a walrus.
ABS not needed - predicated her move...so not in danger... I find myself second guessing everyone's next move. Does make me a little paraniod I guess...and certainly always nervous going through car busy intersections etc.
Most cagers are not focused (enough)on the environment their missile is traversing.

[varminter]

Yep, is it ignorance or apathy? I play the game of 'what they gonna do?' see if I can guess what the vehicle in front is going to do before they do it. Bit like automotive body language.