Hi Viz?

[caseye]

Have a read of this lot then.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11157394

[duckonin]

Most cyclists are fools the way they ride around towns/cities. It would not matter what they wear.

If you are trying to compare a cyclist with a motorcyclist you are way off track.:facepalm:

[Kickaha]

If you are trying to compare a cyclist with a motorcyclist you are way off track.:facepalm:
Not really, I see the same stupid behaviour from both on a daily basis

I dont think that was the point he was trying to make anyway

[Mom]

It is bad enough we are subjected to people that should NEVER wear lycra, to make it hi viz as well is an outrage. Wont make a blind bit of difference (see what I did there).

[roogazza]

Have a read of this lot then.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11157394

Interesting Stats caseye,they won't be happy about those.

[Voltaire]

I was in Europe a few years back with my kids and we had cycles on the back of the van and used them for local trips as they have dedicated cycling paths and the drivers are waaaaay better.
Here they just gather dust in the shed.
I rode my bicycle to work once down the full length of Dominion Road, even with so called cycle/bus lanes its very risky.
I do however ride my motorcycle 90% of the time to work and wear hi viz.
I don't rely on anyone seeing me so I ride accordingly and if that means slowing down at T junctions to get eye contact with cars that do not look like stopping for the Stop or Give way so be it.
Cycling on NZ roads, no thanks.

[superjackal]

I reckon wing mirrors and a registrarion plate would sort the cycling problem out.

[Tigadee]

It is bad enough we are subjected to people that should NEVER wear lycra, to make it hi viz as well is an outrage. Wont make a blind bit of difference.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm... Hi-viz lycra? Might work! :eek:

[R650R]

I was working for a big trucking company up in Auckland about when OSH started getting serious about Hi-vis gear.
Within two days one of the most experienced guys of the diehard never worn flouro before type got run over by a forklift while WEARING HI-VIS vest, he was not impressed lol. Luckily he got shunted and bruised and not torn limbs etc.
As for the old I didn't see you excuse, I think most intelligent people would never admit to seeing the 'victim' before they crashed into them as the next question from the cops is why didn't you 1: reduce your speed, 2: initiate a different course, 3: analyse the risks etc...
They really need to start differentiating what sort of bicycle is been ridden too.
There are two types, normal bikes ridden by schoolkids and commuters, posties and mountainbikers etc. Upright riding position and tyres suitable for roughly sealed roads littered with debri.
The other type are the unstable road racing style bikes which have the following issues that never seem to be addressed by police in crashes:
1: Extreme riding position where the rider has difficulty seeing behind and around them. Riding position means following traffic never sees the hi vis top, only big black lycra butt!
2: sold with out safety reflectors
3: Unstable geometry in terms of bumpy crappy roads we have
4: Extreme high pressure tyres marked 'not for highway use' that suffer catastrophic blowouts easily.
5: Motorists have trouble evaluating the speed of these bikes due to the variety of riding styles of owners, think this is big factor in tangles.
Interesting stats anyway. I think the main problem is this whole 1.5m thing and their bubble attitude of everyone has to look out for us, instead of following natures proven principles of beware of anything bigger and faster than you!
Btw Rastus and his mates could do well to monitor the holier than thou behaviour of these cyclist when they are travelling to and from events. Used to regularly traverse SH5 on weekends in b-train and the things you would see from SUV's laden with bikes doing on the road... just as bad as the cage drivers they point the finger at...

[Hitcher]

Wont make a blind bit of difference (see what I did there).

You forgot an apostrophe?

[Hitcher]

I reckon wing mirrors and a registrarion plate would sort the cycling problem out.

You forgot airbags, five-point harness and a rollover protective structure.

[Kickaha]

Btw Rastus and his mates could do well to monitor the holier than thou behaviour of these cyclist when they are travelling to and from events. Used to regularly traverse SH5 on weekends in b-train and the things you would see from SUV's laden with bikes doing on the road... just as bad as the cage drivers they point the finger at...
:zzzz: All of which would apply to motorcyclists as well

[SMOKEU]

I just wear my steel cap boots when cycling, so I can kick cars who get in my way. If I have to take evasive action to avoid a crash due to the stupidity of a cager, then I don't feel bad about causing panel damage (the vehicle would get damaged anyway from hitting me). Fuck cagers. I do wear hi viz too, but I'm unconvinced of the effectiveness since dumbasses often fail to see a semi or a train.

[Oakie]

You forgot an apostrophe?

Your question mark was unneccesary. Or was it? On reflection ... no! I see what you did there. As you were. Sorry for the interuption.

[awa355]

I still think the best thing I put onto the pushbike was a rear view mirror. No one looks through 180 degrees when checking behind. Most can't turn their heads as far as their shoulders.

Now, if only I got the damn thing out and rode it a bit more often.

[Swoop]

In my workplace it is banned.

The ONLY time someone wore a hi-viz vest, the idiot sliced his hand open within half a day.
Off to hospital for stitches.

Oddly he didn't wear the "cloak of invincibility" ever again.

Hi-viz lulls the wearer into a false sense of security.

[Blackbird]

Just a thought but comparing motorcyclists with motorcyclists might not be valid for another reason and that reason is "POLICE".

I ride on the Auckland motorway quite a bit and it's definitely noticeable that other vehicles around me are a bit more circumspect when I have my hi-viz vest on. It might only be momentary, but I've often wondered whether there's a slight hesitation until they're sure I'm not a cop. A slight hesitation is just fine as long as they register my presence! One or two of my IAM colleagues have Honda ST's, white or hi viz helmets with hi viz gear and there's a really noticeable reluctance for other motorists to pass them :rolleyes:

[Zedder]

Your question mark was unneccesary. Or was it? On reflection ... no! I see what you did there. As you were. Sorry for the interuption.

Was "On reflection" a pun about Hi Viz?

Just in case then: You spelled interruption wrong, it stands out...

[Murray]

Was "On reflection" a pun about Hi Viz?

Just in case then: You spelled interruption wrong, it stands out...

Should that be spelled or spelt? As defined in British English

[Zedder]

Should that be spelled or spelt? As defined in British English

Apparently either is acceptable. However, spelt (which is also a type of wheat) has lost favour (note UK spelling) recently.

Perhaps Hitcher could elucidate further on the etymology for us.

Got any Hi Viz puns?

[Murray]

Got any Hi Viz puns?

Nah not bright enough for that!

[Zedder]

Nah not bright enough for that!

I thought you'd already taken a shine to it.

[Old Steve]

Enough of these off colour jokes!

As for the ST1100, I ride an ex Police ST1100P, white, and I wear black jacket and pants, a fluoro yellow vest and a white helmet. It is dramatically evident that other drivers do a double take when they see me. I've seen cars dip their nose down as their drivers touch the brakes to drop their speed. I don't mind being taken for a Police bike, if it gives the other driver cause to pause, and it also means they clearly see me.

[R650R]

:zzzz: All of which would apply to motorcyclists as well

But motorcyclists don't ride in packs, hog the road and harass the govt with lobby groups... ohh hang on... bugger yeah your right lol... :)

[scumdog]

Hi-viz lulls the wearer into a false sense of security.

Sorta like wearing seatbelts does to car drivers?

What? -
It doesn't?

Well neither does Hi-Vis.

But it MIGHT, just might give you an edge...

[Erelyes]

Sorta like wearing seatbelts does to car drivers?

What? -
It doesn't?

I see a problem with your comparison.

Seatbelts demonstrably reduce the chances of you fucking yourself up in a crash; q.v. recent Nurburgring thread, cf. modern vs historical crash vid in that thread.

One could thus argue that there can be no 'false' sense of security with a seatbelt. It offers security, fullstop.

Whereas hi-vis does two tenths of fuckall in terms of protecting the rider (e.g. abrasion or impact resistance) and instead relies on supposedly making the rider more visible (which is unproven).

Oooh! 7 days is on.

[imac]

Given we continue to have deaths at level crossings when motorists fail to see a FUCKING TRAIN how the fuck is a yellow vest going to help

[Ocean1]

It is bad enough we are subjected to people that should NEVER wear lycra, to make it hi viz as well is an outrage. Wont make a blind bit of difference (see what I did there).

Aye, there's a woman of the female persuasion over yon with dayglo green mumble pants that I could definitely have done without seeing...

[oneofsix]

Sorta like wearing seatbelts does to car drivers?

What? -
It doesn't?

Well neither does Hi-Vis.

But it MIGHT, just might give you an edge...

It MIGHT, just might make you look like a cuddly attractive thing that doesn't look like it could harm a fly should it be hit with the SUV that was bought to protect the occupants from their own fuck useless driving rather than a big dark scary thing that might, just might thump the living shit out of them for coming anywhere near him.

[caseye]

Oi! ewe buggers finished fucking wiv my Fred?
No ducking I was not inferring that us and pushbicyclists are the same. Just making the point that like us more of them cause accidents than they think(their fault accidents) and as every other study/investigation has shown wearing Hi Fuck off viz does absolutely zero good for the wearer.
Anyone with an ex Police bike or simply a white touring machine and wearing something approaching Police gear always get treated with the utmost diffidence and they don't wonder why.
They already know why, why is simple, the same fucking retard who says "I didn't see you" when they've mown you down, don't, NOT SEE,them cause they are a very real threat to that same blind as a bat fucktard car driver, at least until they've had a chance to make sure you/they are either a motorcycle cop or just another victim.
Bottom line Hi Viz = Bullshit ( hummmmm, where have I heard that before???, parliament perhaps?)
White bikes with appropriate gear being worn = a better ( much better) chance of survival by making the fuckwits in cars treat you with utmost caution.YOU ARE A THREAT then, because you could be a cop.
Otherwise ( no white bike and gear) you are just something else to ignore/not see.

[Voltaire]

I work in East Tamaki, lots of the car drivers are already wearing Hi Viz..... I might not bother wearing mine any more and just rely on really loud exhaust and get a seibel horn.
At my work I do all the EH and S permits, risk assessments etc. I suspect that by me doing all this its dumbing down the contractors as they are treated like idiots who don't have a clue.

[v-twinsuzi]

I think that a huge part of the visibility issue for motorcycles and bicycles is that cagers "see" them but, because their consciousness is looking for another cage type vehicle, motorcycles and bicycles don't register in their brain.

However, because in NZ, there is such a huge number of people wearing Hi-viz ie joggers, cyclists, truckdrivers, roadworkers, Mum's pushing prams,volunteers at events, motorcyclists and so on, that Hi-viz IS penetrating into drivers consciousness. They may not recognize immediately what is in Hi-viz, but they register something, and hopefully take appropriate action.

Still not sure about not seeing trains though :wacko:

Just my 2 cents worth !!

[Erelyes]

I might not bother wearing mine any more and just rely on really loud exhaust and get a seibel horn.

Rely on your wits instead. Many people drive who are deaf either fullrange or tonally (my mother-in-law can't hear seagulls).

[bsasuper]

Why don't they just paint all vehicles hi viz?:brick:

[Hitcher]

Why don't they just paint all vehicles hi viz?

Because then they'd all look the same and there'd be no point of difference. It's a bit like cars driving with headlights on during daylight, diluting the effect that motorcycles had when that was our exclusive brand, well us and tuggers in cars and Volvo owners who thought they were being clever.

[MIXONE]

I wore hv when commuting into the Welly cbd on a daily basis.Also have loud exhausts,bright headlight and a multi coloured helmet.Anything for an edge but I still got cut up on a regular basis.They can't see you if they aren't looking!:mad:
Now I don't ride into the cbd the hv is collecting dust in the back of my cupboard.

[scumdog]

I see a problem with your comparison.

Seatbelts demonstrably reduce the chances of you fucking yourself up in a crash; q.v. recent Nurburgring thread, cf. modern vs historical crash vid in that thread.

One could thus argue that there can be no 'false' sense of security with a seatbelt. It offers security, fullstop.

Whereas hi-vis does two tenths of fuckall in terms of protecting the rider (e.g. abrasion or impact resistance) and instead relies on supposedly making the rider more visible (which is unproven).

Oooh! 7 days is on.

Believe it or not that was the argument put forwards against wearing seatbelts when the law making them mandatory came in way back..."they'll all think they're invincible now and drive like idiots" (pfft. like they need a reason to drive like idiots?)

[chasio]

And the poll on the Harold webshite doesn't even have bikes/scooters as an option for preferred mode of transport.

Because surely NO-ONE could actually PREFER motorcycles. :brick:

[Angel_of_Metal]

Meh, just like riding motorbikes/scooters, bicycle riders need to just start going with the assumption that nobody has seen them, and everyone else on the road is trying to kill them. Take the onus for avoiding potential accidents regardless of who may be at fault. It's not hard, and will probably do a far better job than shiny clothes

:rockon:

[pritch]

But it MIGHT, just might give you an edge...

Might not too! That same coroner used to think that. In a previous decision he said that cyclists should have been wearing hi viz.

Now he's a bit older, hopefully just a bit wiser, has seen a few more cases, and has done an about turn. Nice to see that at least one legal professional doesn't rigidly adhere to an entrenched position despite evidence to the contrary.

[caspernz]

Sorta like wearing seatbelts does to car drivers?

What? -
It doesn't?

Well neither does Hi-Vis.

But it MIGHT, just might give you an edge...

This has gotta be the most sensible thing I've read so far today. In most cases the seatbelt makes a positive contribution to safety, yet there are some where it's a negative...

Hiviz on motorcycles is much the same, it may be hard to prove it helps or hinders, personal experience suggests I'm more visible in hiviz so I'll wear it. I actually thought I'd extend that theme to the whole bike though...289922

[rastuscat]

This is a discussion with bugger all chance of an agreed outcome.

I wear an hv helmet. Sticks out like dogs nuts. Plenty of positive feedback on it.

I dont care if others dont agree with hv. Their call entirely.

Just dont make it compulsory. The answer is in having contrasting colours, textures and patterns, all good clues to a seeing eye. Yellow or orange can provide that, but not exclusively so. Black leather jacket with white sleeves is good too. Harley orange looks cool too. Contrast is the key, citizens.

Pffft.

[Blackbird]

This is a discussion with bugger all chance of an agreed outcome.
Pffft.

A pointless discussion too in most respects. Most of those those opposed to wearing a hi-viz will continue not to wear one and those who think it might help, even in a small way will continue to wear one. A less debatable outcome is increasing your personal road skills..... everyone knows it reduces the risk of coming to harm but how many actually do something about it on a regular basis?

[skinman]

Appearance seems to make a big difference. When I rode a black loud cruiser & wore a black leather jacket & seemed to be very visible, stange as by the gubbermants logic & should have been totally invisible.
Now I ride a bike which to the average cages eye looks enough like a cop to cause a second look, works well.
So the key to being visible seem to be look like a threat either to their health or wallet not so much about hivis or not

[rastuscat]

Yes. I ride a Popo bike and get noticed. My personal ride is a civilian version of the work bike, I wear a yellow helmet and people seem to see me like I wuz working.

Still, any day its my actions that make me safer. I own the solutions. Well, most of them.

[The Reibz]

They removed our high vis arm markings off our uniform at work. My only issue with it is if I go over the side of the ship at night, how are the search lights going to find me? Other than that I couldn't care less.
I don't see the point of it on motorcycles, just makes you look like one of those cyclist faggots with the "one less car.." high vis bags on.

[scumdog]

I don't see the point of it on motorcycles, just makes you look like one of those cyclist faggots with the "one less car.." high vis bags on.

That's it!

I WILL wear hi-viz just for the 'piss-you-off' factor!:bleh:

[The Reibz]

I WILL wear hi-viz just for the 'piss-you-off' factor!:bleh:
Trust me bro, it doesn't piss me off. Every cunt has the right to wear what they want ay. Even crossdressers and shit don't disgust me (that much)
I aint gonna judge cunts just because they wear high vis, I just wont ever wear it on my bike

[duckonin]

Trust me bro, it doesn't piss me off. Every cunt has the right to wear what they want ay. Even crossdressers and shit don't disgust me (that much)
I aint gonna judge cunts just because they wear high vis, I just wont ever wear it on my bike

Because persons wear hi vis does not make them, CUNTS ! They are generally persons that would like to make themselves a little more visible to those idiots around them. That's fine if you do not want to wear Hi Vis, no person really gives a fuck about you a anyway. Take that you Cunt !!!:killingme

[Zedder]

They removed our high vis arm markings off our uniform at work. My only issue with it is if I go over the side of the ship at night, how are the search lights going to find me? Other than that I couldn't care less.
I don't see the point of it on motorcycles, just makes you look like one of those cyclist faggots with the "one less car.." high vis bags on.

Maybe they're sending you a subtle message regarding the removal of those Hi Viz markings...

[pritch]

The answer is in having contrasting colours, textures and patterns, all good clues to a seeing eye. Yellow or orange can provide that, but not exclusively so. Black leather jacket with white sleeves is good too. Harley orange looks cool too. Contrast is the key, citizens.


That makes sense.

It has been discussed here before, but research found that drivers responded best to a perceived threat. So looking like a cop or a Hells Angel is good. Looking like the dayglo fairy won't do much except make you feel good - if that's what you're into.

You still have to protect yourself from the buggers who don't look at all.

[Blackbird]

You still have to protect yourself from the buggers who don't look at all.

Ron, hence my earlier comment about upskilling :niceone:

[awa355]

I would wear my Hi Viz, but the zip is broken. :facepalm::facepalm:

[rastuscat]

Another tangent, sorry.

The folk who wear hi-viz often think it's that that makes them feel safer.

Thing is, donning hi-viz in itself indicates that the donner has a safety attitude. It is likely that they will ride more cautiously than someone who is wearing shorts and a t-shirt on their Hayabusa.

It's a bit like training. The ones who self refer to training display a safety attitude simply be recognising that they can learn something. Those who pooh pooh training appear to me to be saying that they have nil to learn.

Training already exists, and thanks to our local ACC subsidy, it's bloody cheap.

Making training compulsory sets it up to fail, as those who already are opposed to compulsion probably won't do it, and ironically, these are often the ones who need it most.

Making hi-viz compulsory is missing the point too. The key to conspicuity is contrast, and that doesn't have to be yellow or orange.

Just a point of view.

Donuts.

290011

[awa355]

To be honest, I nearly always do wear my Hi Viz vest. Infact, as a 18yr old back in 1970, I bought a yellow/tan leather jacket because I thought it would stand out better than black jackets. My helmets were always white for the same reason. White helmets can be scarce thesedays.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/0fa62461-62d8-4c84-86a4-32618fa3e900.jpg?t=1384730838

[rastuscat]

To be honest, I nearly always do wear my Hi Viz vest. Infact, as a 18yr old back in 1970, I bought a yellow/tan leather jacket because I thought it would stand out better than black jackets. My helmets were always white for the same reason. White helmets can be scarce thesedays.

Your tan jacket is a great contrast, and cool to go with it.

In an irony, if you wear a yellow hi viz vest, your white helmet contrasts with it better than a hi viz yellow helmet.

Hi viz yellow helmets work best with orange vests, or just plain black jackets.

[Tigadee]

Hi-vis are like safety belts - whether it saves your life or not, it does at least help the emergency crew find your body.

[Berries]

Thing is, donning hi-viz in itself indicates that the donner has a safety attitude. It is likely that they will ride more cautiously than someone who is wearing shorts and a t-shirt on their Hayabusa.

Just a point of view.
Got to say that I disagree with that generalisation. Donning hi-viz might just as well indicate that the rider does not feel comfortable on a bike and that they are taking every measure possible they think will help them rather than doing the right thing and getting a car.

People with hi-viz get knocked off. Unfortunately that information is not collected at the crash scene so we will never know just how prevalent it is. I would suggest that anyone who dons the magic cloak of visibility could be setting themselves up for a fall by thinking, even subconsciously, that the driver who has just had eye contact with them is not about to pull out on them because of the colour of their jacket.

Each to their own. Until they do pink and orange checks I'm not having one.

[R650R]

...Training already exists, and thanks to our local ACC subsidy, it's bloody cheap...



Just out of interest what does one learn at these days that you don't already know if your a competent experienced road user?
Is it just all the generic road positioning, use both brakes, assess environment, manage fatigue, plan trip etc... or is there some moment of clarity to be had...
It's just that I've lost count of the hours of my life wasted in the likes of Forklift and Hazardous goods courses which are padded out to whole day affairs just to justify the person running it to charge $500 a head or whatever...
Still think there's too much focus in NZ on 'you're a good driver' if you don't drink, speed etc... instead of keeping it simple at something crazy could happen in the next instant, be prepared.
We should just do away with driver licensing altogether and make applicants watch Russian dashcam vids till the assessor notes a genuine sense of fear of whats out there...

Ohh btw for the vesties, you might like these things folks http://www.motosport.com/NZ/motorcycle/JOE-ROCKET-MILITARY-SPEC-VEST

[Blackbird]

Just out of interest what does one learn at these days that you don't already know if your a competent experienced road user?



Experienced and Advanced isn't the same thing. I'd been riding for over 45 years and probably perpetuating the same mistakes every 5 years or so. Then I had an assessment by IAM and sustained major ego damage :facepalm:. It's not for everyone but by crikey, I've learned a huge amount.

[rastuscat]

Gonna start a thread about the ACC subsidies. Off this topic, but remotely related.

[Erelyes]

Experienced and Advanced isn't the same thing. I'd been riding for over 45 years and probably perpetuating the same mistakes every 5 years or so. Then I had an assessment by IAM and sustained major ego damage :facepalm:. It's not for everyone but by crikey, I've learned a huge amount.

Read your blog and always wondered - do ya have an example? Not so much to learn, but to see what an experienced biker learned 45 years in.

[SuperMac]

Your tan jacket is a great contrast, and cool to go with it.

In an irony, if you wear a yellow hi viz vest, your white helmet contrasts with it better than a hi viz yellow helmet.

Hi viz yellow helmets work best with orange vests, or just plain black jackets.

Actually, what you're talking about is disruptive camouflage . . .

You're better off maintaining a 'solid' outline (by using the same colour for everything) but contrasting against the background (which, of course, you have little control over).

[oneofsix]

Actually, what you're talking about is disruptive camouflage . . .

You're better off maintaining a 'solid' outline (by using the same colour for everything) but contrasting against the background (which, of course, you have little control over).

Disruptive camouflage is great for disguising the size and shape of something, like a battle ship, but I thought the idea with us is to been seen and we don't care if they initially miss-judge the shape a little as long as they take a look. As you have pointed out we can't control the background and no matter what colour you choose there will be a background you blend into so a couple of 3 very different colours give you a better chance they will see something.
I'm still going with the scary dark thing moving in the shadows look. :facepalm:

[Blackbird]

Read your blog and always wondered - do ya have an example? Not so much to learn, but to see what an experienced biker learned 45 years in.

I’m going to struggle to answer your question succinctly because each element of the IAM training programme is linked together to form a complete system which is greater than the sum of its parts. However, if I was going to pick out one aspect which stands out for me personally, it’s the huge increase in situational awareness and the consequential actions taken to mitigate risk. On my first assessment ride, I couldn't believe how much information the Chief Examiner was processing when he gave a demo and now it’s hard to believe how little info I initially processed!

The other key thing from my viewpoint is that although the initial goal is to pass the Advanced Test (the process used by UK police riders and others); it’s an on-going procedure. That keeps your skills up to scratch as opposed to one-off training where your standards inevitably start to slide unless reinforced. Even though I thought with 45+ years of riding that I was “experienced”, it took 8 months of really concentrated effort to pass the Advanced Test and a further year of being coached to pass the Observer (instructor) practical and theory exams. You say you've seen the blog. I tried to sum up what it meant for me in this post: http://geoffjames.blogspot.co.nz/2011/11/raising-my-riding-skills-some.html

As I said earlier, it won’t suit everyone but it worked for me. It’s working for a lot of other people too as current demand means that we have a backlog of people in most of the main centres and we’ve just closed the waiting list in the Auckland/Waikato/Northland region.

Hope that helps!

[Erelyes]

I’m going to struggle to answer your question succinctly because each element of the IAM training programme is linked together to form a complete system which is greater than the sum of its parts. However, if I was going to pick out one aspect which stands out for me personally, it’s the huge increase in situational awareness and the consequential actions taken to mitigate risk. On my first assessment ride, I couldn't believe how much information the Chief Examiner was processing when he gave a demo and now it’s hard to believe how little info I initially processed!

The other key thing from my viewpoint is that although the initial goal is to pass the Advanced Test (the process used by UK police riders and others); it’s an on-going procedure. That keeps your skills up to scratch as opposed to one-off training where your standards inevitably start to slide unless reinforced. Even though I thought with 45+ years of riding that I was “experienced”, it took 8 months of really concentrated effort to pass the Advanced Test and a further year of being coached to pass the Observer (instructor) practical and theory exams. You say you've seen the blog. I tried to sum up what it meant for me in this post: http://geoffjames.blogspot.co.nz/2011/11/raising-my-riding-skills-some.html

As I said earlier, it won’t suit everyone but it worked for me. It’s working for a lot of other people too as current demand means that we have a backlog of people in most of the main centres and we’ve just closed the waiting list in the Auckland/Waikato/Northland region.

Hope that helps!

Thanks muchly :)

Read it once... start to finish in a couple night's reading. Y'know how it is, it was hard to put down! :2thumbsup

[Ender EnZed]

Just out of interest what does one learn at these days that you don't already know if your a competent experienced road user?
Is it just all the generic road positioning, use both brakes, assess environment, manage fatigue, plan trip etc... or is there some moment of clarity to be had...
It's just that I've lost count of the hours of my life wasted in the likes of Forklift and Hazardous goods courses which are padded out to whole day affairs just to justify the person running it to charge $500 a head or whatever...

There's no moment of clarity and you'll have to very explicitly ask for it if you want to be pushed in any sense, but it's still a fair bit better than the compulsory, necessary-for-employment type courses where people need the piece of paper at the end of the day. Worth a go at least.

[SuperMac]

Disruptive camouflage is great for disguising the size and shape of something, like a battle ship, but I thought the idea with us is to been seen and we don't care if they initially miss-judge the shape a little as long as they take a look. As you have pointed out we can't control the background and no matter what colour you choose there will be a background you blend into so a couple of 3 very different colours give you a better chance they will see something.
I'm still going with the scary dark thing moving in the shadows look. :facepalm:

Again, you're confusing two issues. It's not just about the hi-viz [possibly] attracting a driver's attention, it's also about whether or not they realise what it is they've noticed - and whether or not they take the right (or any . . . ) action as a result.

The intention behind maintaining a 'solid' outline is that they have a larger target (err . . . could probably have chosen a better word there . . . ) to notice and, if they can recognise that as 'bike and rider' rather than 'patchwork quilt of bright panels' then they might, just might, take appropriate action.

http://the-ride-info.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/road-safety-dog.html

http://tna.europarchive.org/20100413151426/http://scienceandresearch.homeoffice.gov.uk/hosdb/publications/road-policing-publications/47-06_-_High_Conspicuity_Li12835.pdf?view=Binary