To all the haters out there

[SMOKEU]

Who kept telling me "Bitcoin is just a silly little game" or "You'll never get any real money from it, it's a waste of time". LOL! The joke is on you.

[5150]

Haters gonna hate... :laugh:

[Katman]

I don't think the contempt you're held in has anything to do with virtual money.

[Drew]

Who kept telling me "Bitcoin is just a silly little game" or "You'll never get any real money from it, it's a waste of time". LOL! The joke is on you.

Wanna sponsor a Sidecar team with your new found wealth?

[SMOKEU]

I don't think the contempt you're held in has anything to do with virtual money.

My Westpac bank account certainly seems to think the money is very real.

[SMOKEU]

Wanna sponsor a Sidecar team with your new found wealth?

I was thinking more about buying an aircraft, but maybe. Who's racing it?

[Drew]

I was thinking more about buying an aircraft, but maybe. Who's racing it?

I ride it, my mate Alan (Weaver round these parts) swings. New team on the scene, raced it twice now with moderate success...and one roll over trying to impress the crowd with big skids. That'll teach me to show off just because we had a bit of a lead.

[Big Dave]

Wanna sponsor a Sidecar team with your new found wealth?

Team Racist Racing.

[Drew]

Team Racist Racing.

Hahahaha, Jimmy and I were quite keen on 'Shaken baby racing'. But 'team racist' would get more of a reaction. Particularly when you consider we travel around in the 'mobile rape dungeon'. So coined by the late Kerry Bates.

[5150]

Hahahaha, Jimmy and I were quite keen on 'Shaken baby racing'. But 'team racist' would get more of a reaction. Particularly when you consider we travel around in the 'mobile rape dungeon'. So coined by the late Kerry Bates.

Is that because name "Dick Thrust Racing" was already taken? :lol:

[Banditbandit]

'mobile rape dungeon'.

In the current climate and the row around RoasdtBusters I'd be careful of using that name mate ... nothing personal - just saying ... one day you might run into some aggressively nasty women (I use the term women somewhat loosely ... and mostly in a biological rather than a social sense)

[SMOKEU]

I could be keen to sponsor you if you put a large graphical depiction of the Prophet Mohammed on it, just to troll. I can't guarantee that you won't get blown up, however.

[SMOKEU]

In the current climate and the row around RoasdtBusters I'd be careful of using that name mate ... nothing personal - just saying ... one day you might run into some aggressively nasty women (I use the term women somewhat loosely ... and mostly in a biological rather than a social sense)

Someone needs to put those bitches in their place.*



*I don't condone teh raep, or RoastBusters.

[300weatherby]

Who kept telling me "Bitcoin is just a silly little game" or "You'll never get any real money from it, it's a waste of time". LOL! The joke is on you.

More information required............

[SMOKEU]

More information required............

Let's just say I got a good return on my investment, since I invested $0 to begin with. Now, to sell high, wait for the markets to crash and burn, then buy up large, wait a year or 2, sell high, and repeat. It's almost the perfect legal money making scheme. Just don't expect an immediate return on your investment, as it's more of a mid term investment.

[sil3nt]

Let's just say I got a good return on my investment, since I invested $0 to begin with. Now, to sell high, wait for the markets to crash and burn, then buy up large, wait a year or 2, sell high, and repeat. It's almost the perfect legal money making scheme. Just don't expect an immediate return on your investment, as it's more of a mid term investment.You don't get bitcoins for nothing.

[SMOKEU]

You don't get bitcoins for nothing.

I certainly did. I mined them, and the heat generated by the computer was used to heat the room in winter. That electricity would otherwise have been "wasted" by a heater, and since the COP is 1 of both a standard electric resitance heater and a computer, it really didn't cost me anything since the hardware was already there (I bought my hardware before I even knew about BTC).

[bogan]

It's almost the perfect legal money making scheme.

Almost, apart from being a borderline pyramid scheme which largely facilitates illegal transactions; all while placing a large load on network infrastructure.

[SMOKEU]

Almost, apart from being a borderline pyramid scheme which largely facilitates illegal transactions; all while placing a large load on network infrastructure.

I fail to see how Bitcoin in any way resembles a pyramid scheme. And cash doesn't faciliate illegal transactions? What have drug dealers and hitmen been using all these years as payment? :rofl: Wasting time on Facebook and Jewtube also places a very large load on networks, far more so than Bitcoin. It's good that we have an unregulated currency that has almost no transaction fees, and is largely free from government intervention and potential seizure from the courts, provided your wallet.dat is well encrypted.

[bogan]

I fail to see how Bitcoin in any way resembles a pyramid scheme. And cash doesn't faciliate illegal transactions? What have drug dealers and hitmen been using all these years as payment? :rofl: Wasting time on Facebook and Jewtube also places a very large load on networks, far more so than Bitcoin. It's good that we have an unregulated currency that has almost no transaction fees, and is largely free from government intervention and potential seizure from the courts, provided your wallet.dat is well encrypted.

The diminishing returns on the mining side is very pyramid-ish, early adopters get much more returns not through risk, but through the system's design. Not long distance ones. Just cos there are other things worse in respective areas, doesn't mean bitcoin's downside are irrelevant.

How much pinga are we talking here anyway, new to you bike money? new bike money? new hyperbike money?

[SMOKEU]

The diminishing returns on the mining side is very pyramid-ish, early adopters get much more returns not through risk, but through the system's design. Not long distance ones. Just cos there are other things worse in respective areas, doesn't mean bitcoin's downside are irrelevant.

How much pinga are we talking here anyway, new to you bike money? new bike money? new hyperbike money?

The block chain is well documented, as are the facts about the increasing difficulty level. All this information is openly available to anyone, and it's up to the miner/user to inform themselves of this BEFORE getting into Bitcoin. There's no "hidden agenda" to catch anyone out, except for those who don't do sufficient research beforehand. Any investment carries a certain amount of risk, and Bitcoin is a much riskier investment than most, but the returns can be astromomical as can be seen here in the 30 day range. (http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html). Not many other investments will have an exponential increase in value in the period of a month.

I haven't got enough BTC to become rich (yet), but I could get myself a cheap microlight or a tidy 3 year old 1000cc Japanese sports bike. I won't blow all the cash though, as I'm going to give my SRAD a wee birthday (basically a GOOD service), and reinvest the money (wisely) so then hopefully I will be able to get the deposit for a cheap house after a few years.

[bogan]

The block chain is well documented, as are the facts about the increasing difficulty level. All this information is openly available to anyone, and it's up to the miner/user to inform themselves of this BEFORE getting into Bitcoin. There's no "hidden agenda" to catch anyone out, except for those who don't do sufficient research beforehand. Any investment carries a certain amount of risk, and Bitcoin is a much riskier investment than most, but the returns can be astromomical as can be seen here in the 30 day range. (http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD.html). Not many other investments will have an exponential increase in value in the period of a month.

I haven't got enough BTC to become rich (yet), but I could get myself a cheap microlight or a tidy 3 year old 1000cc Japanese sports bike. I won't blow all the cash though, as I'm going to give my SRAD a wee birthday (basically a GOOD service), and reinvest the money (wisely) so then hopefully I will be able to get the deposit for a cheap house after a few years.

...and after reading said info I decided it sounded very pyramid-scheme-ish.

You can't have it both ways, either it cost you something to mine the coins, or there is no risk. Risking nothing it not very risky after all.

Not bad at all, I'd recommend spreading the investment out, stock which can increase in astronomical rates has a habit of decreasing at similar rates too.

[Scuba_Steve]

Almost, apart from being a borderline pyramid scheme which largely facilitates illegal transactions; all while placing a large load on network infrastructure.

So it's just a stock exchange then; only one where people like Smokeu can actually participate

[SMOKEU]

...and after reading said info I decided it sounded very pyramid-scheme-ish.

You can't have it both ways, either it cost you something to mine the coins, or there is no risk. Risking nothing it not very risky after all.

Not bad at all, I'd recommend spreading the investment out, stock which can increase in astronomical rates has a habit of decreasing at similar rates too.

Early investors didn't necesserily make much money out of it, since Bitcoins were worth mere cents each, and most of the early miners sold their Bitcoins early on as they didn't envision the currency would ever be worth much. I was a rather late adopter, starting in June 2011. As I already said, it did cost electricity to mine, but that electricity would have been spent on heating anyway since I did my mining in the winter months and stopped in spring, which is coincidentally when the block difficulty increased beyond the profitable exchange rate. If I had run a heater for the same amount of time to keep the room at the same temperature, I would have nothing to show for it financially. Win!


So it's just a stock exchange then; only one where people like Smokeu can actually participate

lol at "people like me".

[Drew]

All you cunts trying to talk him out of this, knock it off! He's talking about sponsoring team 'prophet' racing!

[bogan]

Early investors didn't necesserily make much money out of it, since Bitcoins were worth mere cents each, and most of the early miners sold their Bitcoins early on as they didn't envision the currency would ever be worth much. I was a rather late adopter, starting in June 2011. As I already said, it did cost electricity to mine, but that electricity would have been spent on heating anyway since I did my mining in the winter months and stopped in spring, which is coincidentally when the block difficulty increased beyond the profitable exchange rate. If I had run a heater for the same amount of time to keep the room at the same temperature, I would have nothing to show for it financially. Win!

Rather irrelevant what early adopters did, the point is mining used to be profitable, now it is not so much; so the pyramid scheme has largely run its course, and now its just a fairly standard currency investment option which is unregulated by governments etc so is a high risk investment, that about sum it up?


All you cunts trying to talk him out of this, knock it off! He's talking about sponsoring team 'prophet' racing!

Talk him out of it? I'm just pointing out it has run its course of being profitable, so he should look into other investment options; sponsoring you cunts for instance...

[imdying]

If sponsors you, I'll put up some tshirts :yes:

<img src="http://www.gunslot.com/files/gunslot/images/78605.jpg" />

[SMOKEU]

Rather irrelevant what early adopters did, the point is mining used to be profitable, now it is not so much; so the pyramid scheme has largely run its course, and now its just a fairly standard currency investment option which is unregulated by governments etc so is a high risk investment, that about sum it up?

Talk him out of it? I'm just pointing out it has run its course of being profitable, so he should look into other investment options; sponsoring you cunts for instance...

Mining can still be profitable with ASIC mining hardware, but since the block difficulty rate increases so quickly, the ROI can be painfully long, if it ever occurs. That's why at stage I'd recommend buying BTC instead of mining them. But the rest of what you said is pretty much true.

Low risk generally equals low return. If you're not happy with the risk of Bitcoin, then put your money in a bank. Just don't expect much of a return, especially when you factor inflation into the equation.

I've been involved with Bitcoin for long enough to make my own observations on the markets, and if there's any advice I can give, it's this: wait until the markets crash big time (it will happen soon), buy up large, then wait a year or 2, maybe even 3, and then cash out big time.

[imdying]

I see they're up to $780 now.

[SMOKEU]

I see they're up to $780 now.

And rapidly climbing! You know what they say; "the bigger the climb, the bigger the fall!"

[AllanB]

Meh - I should have purchased some shares in that lame computer company named after a piece of fruit.

I've come across quite a few older people through work recently who have lost their lives fortunes in investments .......

[jasonu]

Hahahaha, Jimmy and I were quite keen on 'Shaken baby racing'. But 'team racist' would get more of a reaction. Particularly when you consider we travel around in the 'mobile rape dungeon'. So coined by the late Kerry Bates.

You could paint swastikas on the outfit too.

[Drew]

You could paint swastikas on the outfit too.Yeeeeaaaahhhh naaahh. Muhammad teaching piece from the Koran painted on the truck, I'm good with. Portraying myself as a bigot, not so cool.

[5150]

You could paint swastikas on the outfit too.

Katman might have something to say about that :nono:

[Banditbandit]

Talk him out of it? I'm just pointing out it has run its course of being profitable, so he should look into other investment options; sponsoring you cunts for instance...

Bit of a risky investment that - Drew's already admitted he couldn't finish a race after fucking up ... you'd only get to see your logos upside down ...

[Akzle]

well done smokey.:clap: bong's on you then!:2thumbsup

[Banditbandit]

I haven't got enough BTC to become rich (yet), but I could get myself a cheap microlight or a tidy 3 year old 1000cc Japanese sports bike. I won't blow all the cash though, as I'm going to give my SRAD a wee birthday (basically a GOOD service), and reinvest the money (wisely) so then hopefully I will be able to get the deposit for a cheap house after a few years.

Hey cool ... I'd be happy with enough in the bank to afford a three year old Jap mille ... well done that man !!!

[Drew]

Bit of a risky investment that - Drew's already admitted he couldn't finish a race after fucking up ...

Hey, this thread is about not being a hater!

[Banditbandit]

Hey, this thread is about not being a hater!

I wasn't hating ... I was laughing ... Ya CUNT !!!



(That last bit's because I once called you a faux cunt ... which you took as an insult .. so by way of make up ... you're a real cunt !!!)

[Drew]

I wasn't hating ... I was laughing ... Ya CUNT !!!
One cannot go straight to the showing off, without first learning to actually ride a Sidecar. Turns out, it's just me that didn't get that memo.

[Ender EnZed]

I could be keen to sponsor you if you put a large graphical depiction of the Prophet Mohammed on it, just to troll. I can't guarantee that you won't get blown up, however.


Yeeeeaaaahhhh naaahh. Muhammad teaching piece from the Koran painted on the truck, I'm good with. Portraying myself as a bigot, not so cool.

How about a large graphical depiction of Mohammad shaking a Jewish baby?

Team Racist Prophet Racing.

[Banditbandit]

http://www.wonkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/zapiro-muslim-cartoon.png

[scumdog]

Who kept telling me "Bitcoin is just a silly little game" or "You'll never get any real money from it, it's a waste of time". LOL! The joke is on you.

Whisky Tango Foxtrot is a 'bitcoin'?

Do I need one?

[Road kill]

Who kept telling me "Bitcoin is just a silly little game" or "You'll never get any real money from it, it's a waste of time". LOL! The joke is on you.

WPWW,,,,arsehole.

[SMOKEU]

well done smokey.:clap: bong's on you then!:2thumbsup

Maybe the coke and hookers, too.


Hey cool ... I'd be happy with enough in the bank to afford a three year old Jap mille ... well done that man !!!

See above!


How about a large graphical depiction of Mohammad shaking a Jewish baby?

Team Racist Prophet Racing.

Bestgore in no time!


Whisky Tango Foxtrot is a 'bitcoin'?

Do I need one?

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin). Ideally, you'd have many Bitcoins.


WPWW,,,,arsehole.

1488!

[Tazz]

:clap:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25138627

[mashman]

Bitch pad for ya Smokey (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/vegas-developer-selling-7-85m-163608512.html)

[SMOKEU]

:clap:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25138627

Always back up the wallet.dat on multiple drives!


Bitch pad for ya Smokey (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/vegas-developer-selling-7-85m-163608512.html)

I wish I had enough BTC for that.

[Paul in NZ]

Bugger

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/30017696/hundreds-of-millions-in-bitcoins-disappears

[SMOKEU]

Bugger

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/30017696/hundreds-of-millions-in-bitcoins-disappears

Just as well I cashed out big at the right time, and the rest of my BTC are safely stashed in my wallet.dat

[Katman]

.....and the rest of my BTC are safely stashed in my wallet.dat

They'll be great for buying virtual petrol.

[SMOKEU]

They'll be great for buying virtual petrol.

I'm sure they will be. Or I could cash out. Moar money for me! Then I can buy some jewgold.

[Indiana_Jones]

Am I so lost over this bitcoin shit lol.

-Indy

[SMOKEU]

Am I so lost over this bitcoin shit lol.

-Indy

All the more reason to get started. Read a Bitcoin wiki to get an understanding of the basics.

Then go to Silk Road and buy some coke and meth.

[bogan]

Am I so lost over this bitcoin shit lol.

-Indy

Pyramid scheme, if you have any, sell before it crashes (again). Value of the coins is far too unstable for it to become a permanent form of currency.

[Indiana_Jones]

Pyramid scheme, if you have any, sell before it crashes (again). Value of the coins is far too unstable for it to become a permanent form of currency.

I haven't got any, I've only heard about it in the last month or so. My mate said they bought a coin or two.

Sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me.

-Indy

[Akzle]

Pyramid scheme,

now now, that carries such negative connotation.
Think of it more... as a triangular business model...

[bogan]

now now, that carries such negative connotation.
Think of it more... as a triangular business model...

Oh it's fucking clever, I'll certainly give them that. Especially all the anonymity, so you can't tell when the smart guys behind it decide it is fuck-this-shit-oclock and pull their millions (billions?) out and leave the lower teirs with a bunch of rapidly devaluing currency.

[Akzle]

Oh it's fucking clever, I'll certainly give them that. Especially all the anonymity, so you can't tell when the smart guys behind it decide it is fuck-this-shit-oclock and pull their millions (billions?) out and leave the lower teirs with a bunch of rapidly devaluing currency.

youre right. That sounds nothing at all like "real" money.
/comic sans

[SMOKEU]

Pyramid scheme, if you have any, sell before it crashes (again). Value of the coins is far too unstable for it to become a permanent form of currency.




Sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me.

-Indy

Wrong and wrong...

Do some reading into it.

[bogan]

youre right. That sounds nothing at all like "real" money.
/comic sans

You know we actually have comic sans as a font right?


Wrong and wrong...

Do some reading into it.

Inherent in the system is deflation due to money supply. There is a reason stable economies like to have a healthy level of inflation. Simply put, as more people use it, there is more demand for a fixed number of coins, leading to increases in the coins worth. So later adopters increase the value of early adopters investments, while not actually adding any other function/value to the system; isn't that the basic definition of a pyramid scheme?

[Akzle]

You know we actually have comic sans as a font right?


you know how long it takes to type html on a fuken phone?

[bogan]

you know how long it takes to type html on a fuken phone?

No, cos I'm not a plebian who has to do such things.

[Akzle]

No, cos I'm not a plebian who has to do such things.

gratefully accepting donations of non shit laptops...

[oldrider]

Don't know what all the fuss is about ... every bank in the world is just another Ponzi scheme but made legal to protect them from discovery! :stoogie:

There used to be all kinds of money (still is) before the (world) Federal reserves were established to gain better control over us! :2guns: Legal tyranny! :brick:

[ptroy]

U all mad I've made $1000's with bit coin for doing fuck all?

Sent from my C2 using Tapatalk

[bogan]

gratefully accepting donations of non shit laptops...

How about an only slightly shitty laptop, but also with poo on the cpu instead of a heatsink?

[oldrider]

Picture of legal tyranny:

http://www.ooobie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/tyranny.jpg Just change the names to National and Labour and you have the New Zealand copy! :weird:

[Akzle]

U all mad I've made $1000's with bit coin for doing fuck all?

Sent from my C2 using Tapatalk
lets review.
Youre in hamilton.















As if thats not enough. You have a honda.

How about an only slightly shitty laptop, but also with poo on the cpu instead of a heatsink?

plus cash my way. Say 2 large. Deal.

[mashman]

Sigh..........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMiW09VEe3Y

Doesn't sound like bitcoin or a ponzi/pyramid scheme at all.

[bogan]

plus cash my way. Say 2 large. Deal.

2 large ones with cash in them you say, do I have to eat the pennies or can I just push them in before mailing?


Doesn't sound like bitcoin or a ponzi/pyramid scheme at all.

Hey now he is getting somewhere!

[oldrider]

Social credit have been trying to get this point across for years ... why do you think they were ridiculed at every opportunity! :facepalm:

That's not the bad bit ... the bad bit is just how gullible the (educated?) public mind is! :brick:

[Akzle]

That's not the bad bit ... the bad bit is just how gullible the (educated?) public mind is! :brick:

theyre not educated. Theyre indoctrinated. Thank jew very much!

[mashman]

Social credit have been trying to get this point across for years ... why do you think they were ridiculed at every oportunity! :facepalm:

That's not the bad bit ... the bad bit is just how gullible the (educated?) public mind is! :brick:

"He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation." - James A Garfield.

They're not gullible (not wholly), they're afraid.

[oldrider]

"He who controls the money supply of a nation controls the nation." - James A Garfield.

They're not gullible (not wholly), they're afraid.

Same people who control our money will be behind the problems that "Bitcoin" are currently experiencing ... they don't like competition y'know! :oi-grr:

Not at all unexpected, just took longer than I thought it would! :shifty:

[mashman]

Same people who control our money will be behind the problems that "Bitcoin" are currently experiencing ... they don't like competition y'know! :oi-grr:

Not at all unexpected, just took longer than I thought it would! :shifty:

That would not surprise me in the slightest. Hit it hard, ramp up the price, then dump it harder. A move that should be called, The Soros.

Well from me, I apologise for keeping you waiting.

[bogan]

Same people who control our money will be behind the problems that "Bitcoin" are currently experiencing ... they don't like competition y'know! :oi-grr:

Behind just the problems? Who do you think designed bitcoin as a whole? Some liberals who believe the wealth should go to all the people instead of just those at the top of the system :killingme

[Indiana_Jones]

Money supply

Growth of the Bitcoin money supply is predefined by the Bitcoin protocol,[28] and in this way inflation is kept in check. Currently there are over twelve million bitcoins in circulation with an approximate creation rate of 25 bitcoins every ten minutes. The total supply is capped at 21 million,[28] and every few years or so the creation rate is halved. This means new bitcoins will continue to be released for more than a hundred years.

Sure it is lol

-Indy

[bogan]

Sure it is lol

-Indy

Mate, that's the problem, it is capped at 21million bitcoins. The first few million were piss easy to get (handy for the inventors and their buddies right), and cheap as chips. But schmucks wanting some of the last few million will take a hell of a lot more effort to get em. So the system is designed to reward early adopters because late adopter increase the value of all bitcoins, not just the ones they get. And of course it is the same with trading them through supply and demand, fixed supply but more demand is bad (didn't debeers cop a lot of flak about supply fixing diamonds?).

It's fucking funny hearing people go on about this being a system better than govt managed ones as it is by the people for the people, because it's just blatantly a pyramid scheme, far more so than your common banks/govt, but because they don't have the suited boogeyman to hate on, it must be fine right :facepalm:

[Indiana_Jones]

What I'm not understanding is how does one actually 'get' a bitcoin?

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

What I'm not understanding is how does one actually 'get' a bitcoin?

-Indy

Through a Bitcon ?

[bogan]

What I'm not understanding is how does one actually 'get' a bitcoin?

-Indy

You can 'mine' them, which is basically farming out the task of encryption and distributed 'banking' where the bitcoin economy is tracked/recorded through user's PC's. This is the bit where they are created, and is capped at 21mil, and it getting way more difficult to mine now, than when it first started.
Or you can buy them using real money from somebody who has mined some, or bought some of one who has mined them.

[Indiana_Jones]

So I'm guessing someone set up the code for it to be 'mined'.

So what if someone 'hacked' it and said 'look I have 4 million of these thingies now'?

-Indy

[mashman]

So what if someone 'hacked' it and said 'look I have 4 million of these thingies now'?

Then they should be revered for being the success that they are and given another 4 million at the expense of those who are still mining.

[bogan]

So I'm guessing someone set up the code for it to be 'mined'.

So what if someone 'hacked' it and said 'look I have 4 million of these thingies now'?

-Indy

Nah, mining is like calculating a bajillion encrypted sum things/record of BC transaction. If you said you had many many of them, it just wouldn't match the encrypted records on other's computers, or something like that.

[SMOKEU]

You know we actually have comic sans as a font right?



Inherent in the system is deflation due to money supply. There is a reason stable economies like to have a healthy level of inflation. Simply put, as more people use it, there is more demand for a fixed number of coins, leading to increases in the coins worth. So later adopters increase the value of early adopters investments, while not actually adding any other function/value to the system; isn't that the basic definition of a pyramid scheme?


Mate, that's the problem, it is capped at 21million bitcoins. The first few million were piss easy to get (handy for the inventors and their buddies right), and cheap as chips. But schmucks wanting some of the last few million will take a hell of a lot more effort to get em. So the system is designed to reward early adopters because late adopter increase the value of all bitcoins, not just the ones they get. And of course it is the same with trading them through supply and demand, fixed supply but more demand is bad (didn't debeers cop a lot of flak about supply fixing diamonds?).

It's fucking funny hearing people go on about this being a system better than govt managed ones as it is by the people for the people, because it's just blatantly a pyramid scheme, far more so than your common banks/govt, but because they don't have the suited boogeyman to hate on, it must be fine right :facepalm:


What I'm not understanding is how does one actually 'get' a bitcoin?

-Indy

The early adopters of Bitcoin didn't always make much money out of it. They took a big risk by buying hardware and spending a lot of money on electricity for an unknown currency that had very little monetary value. It's not much different in that respect with investors buying shares in a high risk startup company early on. In mid 2011 the value of a BTC peaked at around $US30, then dropped down to around $US2. So many of those early adopters actually lost significant sums of money from buying high and selling low, or mining coins and holding on to them for too long, and then panic selling at a low price that didn't even cover the electricity costs of mining.

If you were a late adopter and bought BTC just before the price hike last year, you could have bought coins for $US100 and sold them for $US1000 a couple of months later. Most of the early adopters sold their BTC when the prices were comparatively low, so in fact they didn't always make as much as the later entrants. There is not always a direct correlation between difficulty rate and BTC value, so there's also a lot of luck and simply knowing how to play the markets that are involved.

I was lucky more than anything else, I started mining at a comparitively low difficulty, made a few thousand $, lost a few thousand $, then made all that money back, with a few extra thousand $ on top. I just made the right choices at the right time, although I was a bit gutted when I sold BTC for around $US500, then a week later they were over $US1000, so I sold more at near the peak price. Still, it worked out well for me. Winning!

[SMOKEU]

Here's some information about pyramid and ponzi schemes:


"Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes share many similar characteristics in which unsuspecting individuals are fooled by unscrupulous investors who promise extraordinary returns. However, in contrast to a regular investment, these types of schemes can offer consistent "profits" only as long as the number of investors continues to increase. Ponzi and pyramid schemes are self sustaining as long as cash outflows can be matched by monetary inflows. The basic difference arises in the type of products that schemers offer their clients and the structure of the two ploys. Ponzi schemes are based on fraudulent investment management services – basically investors contribute money to the "portfolio manager" who promises them a high return, and then when those investors want their money back they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors. The person organizing this type of fraud is in charge of controlling the entire operation; they merely transfer funds from one client to another and forgo any real investment activities.

On the other hand, a pyramid scheme is structured so that the initial schemer must recruit other investors who will continue to recruit other investors and those investors will then continue to recruit additional investors and so on. Sometimes there will be an incentive that is presented as an investment opportunity, such as the right to sell a particular product. Each investor pays the person who recruited them for the chance to sell this item. The recipient must share the proceeds with those at the higher levels of the pyramid structure.

There are two additional important factors to consider: the only guilty party in the Ponzi and pyramid scheme is the originator of the corrupt business practice, not the participants (as long as they are unaware of the illegal business practices). Secondly, a pyramid scheme differs from a multi-level marketing campaign which offers legitimate products."

http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/ponzi-vs-pyramid.asp

[bogan]

The early adopters of Bitcoin didn't always make much money out of it. They took a big risk by buying hardware and spending a lot of money on electricity for an unknown currency that had very little monetary value. It's not much different in that respect with investors buying shares in a high risk startup company early on. In mid 2011 the value of a BTC peaked at around $US30, then dropped down to around $US2. So many of those early adopters actually lost significant sums of money from buying high and selling low, or mining coins and holding on to them for too long, and then panic selling at a low price that didn't even cover the electricity costs of mining.

If you were a late adopter and bought BTC just before the price hike last year, you could have bought coins for $US100 and sold them for $US1000 a couple of months later. Most of the early adopters sold their BTC when the prices were comparatively low, so in fact they didn't always make as much as the later entrants. There is not always a direct correlation between difficulty rate and BTC value, so there's also a lot of luck and simply knowing how to play the markets that are involved.

I was lucky more than anything else, I started mining at a comparitively low difficulty, made a few thousand $, lost a few thousand $, then made all that money back, with a few extra thousand $ on top. I just made the right choices at the right time, although I was a bit gutted when I sold BTC for around $US500, then a week later they were over $US1000, so I sold more at near the peak price. Still, it worked out well for me. Winning!

It's more like pyramid scheme risk than startup risk, in that other investors coming in give you returns. High risk startups are not often publically listed, and there is little option to sell shares, so you have to have faith in the product/service to get your investment returns.

The big question is, why cap it at 21million coins? Why build in supply side deflation? I can't think of an answer to those questions which doesn't involve a pyramid.

[SMOKEU]

It's more like pyramid scheme risk than startup risk, in that other investors coming in give you returns. High risk startups are not often publically listed, and there is little option to sell shares, so you have to have faith in the product/service to get your investment returns.

The big question is, why cap it at 21million coins? Why build in supply side deflation? I can't think of an answer to those questions which doesn't involve a pyramid.


"Bitcoin is nearly opposite of a pyramid scheme in a mathematical sense. Because Bitcoins are algorithmically made scarce, no exponential benefit is derived from introducing new users to use of it. There is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential." (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_is_a_pyramid_scheme)

I don't really understand the 21 (ish) million BTC cap enough to comment on it. It's pretty mathematically complicated, and shit like that is too much of a buzz kill to think about in depth, or at all.

[bogan]

"Bitcoin is nearly opposite of a pyramid scheme in a mathematical sense. Because Bitcoins are algorithmically made scarce, no exponential benefit is derived from introducing new users to use of it. There is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential." (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_is_a_pyramid_scheme)

I don't really understand the 21 (ish) million BTC cap enough to comment on it. It's pretty mathematically complicated, and shit like that is too much of a buzz kill to think about in depth, or at all.

"There is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential." So it is a linear pyramid instead of an exponential one. Still means increasing demand increases value of a limited supply.

[SMOKEU]

"There is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential." So it is a linear pyramid instead of an exponential one. Still means increasing demand increases value of a limited supply.

Except for the fact that the value is prone to exponential decreases in value during a very short period of time. If you keep track of the Bitcoin values over a long term period you'd see that the prices often don't reflect the hash rate or number of "investors".

[bogan]

Except for the fact that the value is prone to exponential decreases in value during a very short period of time. If you keep track of the Bitcoin values over a long term period you'd see that the prices often don't reflect the hash rate or number of "investors".

I thought hash rate was the money velocity?

[SMOKEU]

I thought hash rate was the money velocity?

It's the amount of "work" or processing power that a particular miner, group of miners or total Bitcoin network has. You can see on bitcoincharts.com what the current hash rate is. This increases as more miners join the network, and when mining hardware becomes more powerful.

Check out the hash rate and move your mouse over the graph line https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

The first significant hash rate increase in mid 2012 was when FPGA miners started becoming popular. The explosive growth in mid 2013 was when ASIC miners first started shipping, especially from BFL.

[bogan]

It's the amount of "work" or processing power that a particular miner, group of miners or total Bitcoin network has. You can see on bitcoincharts.com what the current hash rate is. This increases as more miners join the network, and when mining hardware becomes more powerful.

Check out the hash rate and move your mouse over the graph line https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

The first significant hash rate increase in mid 2012 was when FPGA miners started becoming popular. The explosive growth in mid 2013 was when ASIC miners first started shipping, especially from BFL.

Ah yup, so neither money velocity or money supply.

Anyway, I found this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral which is what I keep referring to but worded more betterer

"Elaborate controls to make sure that currency is not produced in greater numbers is not something any other currency, like the dollar or the euro, has," says Russ Roberts, professor of economics at George Mason University. The consequence will likely be slow and steady deflation, as the growth in circulating bitcoins declines and their value rises. "That is considered very destructive in today's economies, mostly because when it occurs, it is unexpected," says Roberts. But he thinks that won't apply in an economy where deflation is expected. "In a Bitcoin world, everyone would anticipate that, and they know what they got paid would buy more then than it would now."

[SMOKEU]

Ah yup, so neither money velocity or money supply.

Anyway, I found this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral which is what I keep referring to but worded more betterer

"Elaborate controls to make sure that currency is not produced in greater numbers is not something any other currency, like the dollar or the euro, has," says Russ Roberts, professor of economics at George Mason University. The consequence will likely be slow and steady deflation, as the growth in circulating bitcoins declines and their value rises. "That is considered very destructive in today's economies, mostly because when it occurs, it is unexpected," says Roberts. But he thinks that won't apply in an economy where deflation is expected. "In a Bitcoin world, everyone would anticipate that, and they know what they got paid would buy more then than it would now."

Now that seems more realistic. An interesting thing to note is that the final block is estimated to be mined in 2140 based on the block reward halving every 4 years. (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/10486/when-will-the-last-bitcoin-be-mined)

There is also an FAQ wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ) that is a good read. The wiki goes on to state:

" Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme?

In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adopters profit from the rise in value. Late adopters, and indeed, society as a whole, benefit from the usefulness of a stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted p2p currency.

The fact that early adopters benefit more doesn't alone make anything a Ponzi scheme. All good investments in successful companies have this quality. "

[bogan]

Now that seems more realistic. An interesting thing to note is that the final block is estimated to be mined in 2140 based on the block reward halving every 4 years. (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/10486/when-will-the-last-bitcoin-be-mined)

There is also an FAQ wiki (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ) that is a good read. The wiki goes on to state:

" Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme?

In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adopters profit from the rise in value. Late adopters, and indeed, society as a whole, benefit from the usefulness of a stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted p2p currency.

The fact that early adopters benefit more doesn't alone make anything a Ponzi scheme. All good investments in successful companies have this quality. "

Nah it isn't a ponzi scheme. But there is a lot of pyramid scheme aspects to it, simply because the currency increases in value the more demand there is for it. As long as demand increases for it as an investment, those with money already invested in it will profit. Ie, it is very much in the investors interest to see more investors to come on board. Now why is it designed with that as a feature?

[SMOKEU]

Nah it isn't a ponzi scheme. But there is a lot of pyramid scheme aspects to it, simply because the currency increases in value the more demand there is for it. As long as demand increases for it as an investment, those with money already invested in it will profit. Ie, it is very much in the investors interest to see more investors to come on board. Now why is it designed with that as a feature?

In saying all that, I guess you do have a valid point.

Things are just not quite as black and white as people like to make out Bitcoin to be. I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money to put down a deposit for a house from Bitcoin. But that's just wishful thinking for now.

[bogan]

In saying all that, I guess you do have a valid point.

Things are just not quite as black and white as people like to make out Bitcoin to be. I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money to put down a deposit for a house from Bitcoin. But that's just wishful thinking for now.

Yeh, and it's a bit hazy on what will actually happen when the deflationary spiral is a known event. Like will people buy low now/soonish, wait for the spiral to ramp up, then sell big, thus crashing the prices. Or will the spiral drive the currency into stagnation and disuse instead. Really hard for anyone to predict because it's a new thing.

But, the thing the raises alarm bells with me, is the 21mil limit, why put that in there unless deflation is an objective...

[Akzle]

I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money...

invest in an AK and a phat stack of bullets yo.
Thats the only shit will help you through the 'transition'

[SMOKEU]

Yeh, and it's a bit hazy on what will actually happen when the deflationary spiral is a known event. Like will people buy low now/soonish, wait for the spiral to ramp up, then sell big, thus crashing the prices. Or will the spiral drive the currency into stagnation and disuse instead. Really hard for anyone to predict because it's a new thing.

But, the thing the raises alarm bells with me, is the 21mil limit, why put that in there unless deflation is an objective...

People have been known to manipulate the markets like that by selling off a large number of Bitcoins when the price is high, causing panic selling. Thus, once the price has dropped significantly and stabilized from its excessive "sink rate", they buy up big and wait for the next one. Which could take 6 months. Or 2 years. Or fuck knows.

Of possible interest to you could be the Economics subforum on Bitcointalk. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=7.0)

As for your last point, I don't really have an answer. It would require someone who happens to be really jewish, or knowledgeable about Bitcoin.


invest in an AK and a phat stack of bullets yo.
Thats the only shit will help you through the 'transition'

I would love an AK, but unfortunately the cops are being a buzz kill and won't let me have one. :(

There are still some mean A cat guns around. A Saiga 12 would be nice, or a Benelli 12ga semi auto. :)

[bogan]

http://explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/givemeyourcash.png

[Mental Trousers]

A second theft can't be good for the value of your bitcoins

http://flexcoin.com/

[SMOKEU]

A second theft can't be good for the value of your bitcoins

http://flexcoin.com/

Another one bites the dust.

The hack wasn't big enough to put a major dent in the BTC value.

[Scuba_Steve]

I would love an AK, but unfortunately the cops are being a buzz kill and won't let me have one. :(


Why do you need permission??? An AK is it's own permission :ar15:
I'm sure Akzle didn't ask permission for any of his firearms & especially not from criminal gangs such as the :Police:

[Akzle]

Why do you need permission??? An AK is it's own permission :ar15:
I'm sure Akzle didn't ask permission for any of his firearms & especially not from criminal gangs such as the :Police:

i dont have an AK :crybaby:

[blue rider]

i dont have an AK :crybaby:



poor thing,

one round of pity for akzle

:grouphug:

[SMOKEU]

Why do you need permission??? An AK is it's own permission :ar15:
I'm sure Akzle didn't ask permission for any of his firearms & especially not from criminal gangs such as the :Police:

I'm not that much of a rebel!

[Akzle]

I'm not that much of a rebel!
and it involves dealing with dark skinned folk.

[SMOKEU]

and it involves dealing with dark skinned folk.

Really, really dark skinned, like al Shabaab from Somalia and other war torn African nations where AK47s are common.

[mashman]

Police investigate death of bitcoin exchange chief (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10679596/Police-investigate-death-of-bitcoin-exchange-chief.html)...

Hmmmmmm, kill or control?

[bogan]

Police investigate death of bitcoin exchange chief (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/10679596/Police-investigate-death-of-bitcoin-exchange-chief.html)...

Hmmmmmm, kill or control?

Tin foil hats incoming...

[Mental Trousers]

Personally I'd be getting rid of any bitcoins as fast as possible if I had any.

http://www.itworld.com/security/410097/bitcoin-stealing-malware-hidden-mt-gox-data-dump-researcher-says

[mashman]

Personally I'd be getting rid of any bitcoins as fast as possible if I had any.

http://www.itworld.com/security/410097/bitcoin-stealing-malware-hidden-mt-gox-data-dump-researcher-says

heh... likely installed through automatic update files from the OS supplier :shifty:

[R650R]

The whole thing kinda amuses me.
People don't like or trust the main banks so instead they buy some virtual currency of 'some guy' on the internet... yeah that's a safe idea LOL...
I'm always suspicious of new things like this, whose backing it from the start and giving it so much publicity???
Good luck, let us know when you upgrade from the SRAD to Pangiale 1298 SP :)