Maureen has enjoyed years of incident-free riding. Is she a better rider than you?

[cheshirecat]

Visor Down (http://www.visordown.com/features/discuss-the-better-rider-is-the-one-who-crashes-least-not-the-fastest/24017.html) special - If drops don't count then thankfully I come out reasonably well!

Quote "Generally speaking, no rider can stand in judgement of another unless he’s got a longer crash-free record. Anyone else pontificating on other people’s riding has no evidence for their assertions.

Read more: http://www.visordown.com/features/discuss-the-better-rider-is-the-one-who-crashes-least-not-the-fastest/24017.html#ixzz2l569CDYc

[G4L4XY]

What exactly what it that Maureen was riding ;)

[Road kill]

If drops do count I still come out pretty good.

I haven't crashed a bike since 1988 and haven't dropped either of my two current bikes at all.
I never dropped my two HD's at all and I never dropped my duke at all.

But none of that means another person has no right to stand in judgment of my riding.

If a person that's never ridden a bike in their life sees me cross the center line then they have every right to point it out and my opinion of either my own riding skill or theirs has nothing to do with it.

As for having no evidence for their assertions,that's just word play and ego protecting rubbish that simply doesn't work in the real world.

Hell when I was working in the steel industry I used to be told how to do my job by people that couldn't start the mill let alone run it.

Today I get told how when and where to do my job by people that have never driven a truck in their lives.

I get audited every month by people claiming to be trained in safe operating procedures yet they still ask me for advice while their picking holes in my procedures and practices.

These things are just facts of life and riding a motorcycle well or not is no different.

[swbarnett]

Not crashing does not make you a better rider.

To take it to the comical extreme that makes a car driver that doesn't ride a better rider.

There are so many factors that come into play. How far does the rider travel in a given period? On what roads? In what traffic? How slow can they ride? etc. etc.

[SMOKEU]

There are so many factors that come into play. How far does the rider travel in a given period? On what roads? In what traffic? How slow can they ride? etc. etc.

This.

Dirt bike riders also tend to have a much higher crash rate than road riders, but that doesn't make them a "worse" rider.

[imdying]

I think Marc Marquez crashed 12 times this season? We're all better riders than him then :D

[eSOL]

I think Marc Marquez crashed 12 times this season? We're all better riders than him then


haha :nya:

[Drew]

"Better', needs to be quantified. Better in terms of not crashing, obviously. Better in terms of being more in control, without comparison there's no way to know. Since skill can be offset by just going slower.

So, though I understand the point of the article I do not believe it actually tells us anything at all.

[swbarnett]

Better in terms of not crashing, obviously.
Only assuming all other factors are the same* - same mileage, same roads, same weather, etc. etc...




*Or at least similar.

[Banditbandit]

I met a guy who wrote off six bikes in two years .. did that make him a better rider .. I doubt it - he gave it up as a bad job and said he figured he wasn't meant to ride bikes .. he was right ...

But I think you find the limits of a bike by pushing it - and you really find them when you go passed them ...

So it is not crashing that makes you a better rider - it is pushing the bike harder .. and sometimes thatr means you push too hard and crash ...

( I think I've gone down the road 11 times in my riding career - two of those were hitting cars that did stupid things in front of me - my riding career spans 40 years .... so a crash every 3.6 years ..)

[nzmikey]

This.

Dirt bike riders also tend to have a much higher crash rate than road riders, but that doesn't make them a "worse" rider.

Yeah I am a prime example of that ..... 2mths ago I binned 10 times in a day ( 2hrs of actual riding ) .

Does not make me a bad road rider ... I just fail to adhere to speed limits & then get fucked for it :facepalm:

No shame in admitting that either

[R650R]

You have to love it when these space filler articles sum up lifes problems seemingly so simple and easy but it never is.
Anyway a couple of common sayings I've heard in transport industry over the years:
1) Your only as good as your last mistake
2) Yeah X has never had an accident but sure seen a lot in their rearview mirror (that they caused etc)

[Erelyes]

But none of that means another person has no right to stand in judgment of my riding.

Absolutely. I may not agree with what someone thinks of my riding but I'd much rather they piped up than turned a blind eye.

Another way of thinking of this - you're only as good as your next ride. And similarly, what's important is the attitude that you carry into each and every ride.

[Drew]

And similarly, what's important is the attitude that you carry into each and every ride.Fuck yeah. "Beat them all, beat them all"!

[russd7]

Maureen has enjoyed years of incident-free riding. Is she a better rider than you? she also has two banana's and if she gives away 1 apple then how many plums do you have left,

kinda reminds me of the maths questions the lids used to bring home from primary school, the answer seems to me to be the same any way:innocent:

[haydes55]

Maureen hasn't crashed in 19 years of riding 10,000km/year on her bike.

Clancy has crashed 3 times in the last 8 years of riding only 5000km/year.

According to ACC Maureen is a better rider.

Maureen and Clancy are riding together through a country road. Just cruising around some corners when they both hit a patch of gravel. Maureen immediately drops the bike and slides under a truck. Clancy holds the throttle on and brings the sliding bike back in line and accelerates to the next corner.

Someone mightn't crash for a long period of time for the simple reason of they haven't encountered a high risk situation before.

I would judge who is a better rider based on if the exact same scenario happened to each rider, who would or wouldn't make it through the scenario.

Both riders riding at the pace they would usually ride. So Maureen might have encountered the gravel around the corner going 75km/h while Clancy was going 120km/h.

[Berries]

According to ACC Maureen is a better rider.
Yeah, according to me she is as well. You can come up with all kinds of hypothetical what ifs but the facts are she rides twice as many K's as Clancy in a year and has been riding for twice as long and so far hasn't tempted fate by fucking up and falling off on the road. Three times.

Surely there must come a time when you think yeah, this rider is competent. I am not saying Clancy isn't. Actually, Clancy isn't. Falling off on the track is one thing, falling off on the road is just stupid, kerb here, strainer post there. Once you are sliding down the road the outcome is a lottery.

I am sure Maureen is extremely happy subsidising Clancy's repair costs through the ACC levy. Ha, he has probably got it on hold anyway. Win win.


Burn him.

[Drew]

Yeah, according to me she is as well. You can come up with all kinds of hypothetical what ifs but the facts are she rides twice as many K's as Clancy in a year and has been riding for twice as long and so far hasn't tempted fate by fucking up and falling off on the road. Three times.

Surely there must come a time when you think yeah, this rider is competent. I am not saying Clancy isn't. Actually, Clancy isn't. Falling off on the track is one thing, falling off on the road is just stupid, kerb here, strainer post there. Once you are sliding down the road the outcome is a lottery.

I am sure Maureen is extremely happy subsidising Clancy's repair costs through the ACC levy. Ha, he has probably got it on hold anyway. Win win.


Burn him.Your definition of a better rider then, is solely based on how many times they have crashed per kilometer?

Ignore statistics for a minute, and the statement is flawed anyway. Different people measure skill differently. I measure mine on race results, how well I can 'stunt' a bike, and other things that come with physical control. I consider my skill level to be higher than most, even though I've crashed more than a lot of those same bikers.

Once you're sliding down the road, there is quite a lot you can do to protect yourself by the way. The 'lottery' odds are not as bad as you might think, if one has their wits about them.

[Kickaha]

if one has their wits about them.
You're well fucked then

[Paul in NZ]

Shes a better rider than me for a given value of 'better' and 'rider'....

[Drew]

You're well fucked then

Experience takes place of wits in my case.

[swbarnett]

Yeah, according to me she is as well.
By your reasoning pure dumb luck makes one a better rider.

[Big Dave]

Does she root?

[cheshirecat]

Does she root?Have you seen her?

[Big Dave]

Have you seen her?

I wasn't thinking for me.

[Smifffy]

Does she root?

She was well rooted after Haydes took her in the gravel patch...

[Smifffy]

One could also argue that betterment comes from making mistakes and learning from them.

[Berries]

Your definition of a better rider then, is solely based on how many times they have crashed per kilometer?
Not at all, that would be too simplistic. I don't know how you can class someone as a good rider if they regularly crash on the road though.


By your reasoning pure dumb luck makes one a better rider.
Erm, no.

The question was hypothetical. Maureen has managed a certain number of years and a certain number of km's without falling off. Clancy has fallen off a few times in a few years over less distance. I don't see how this prepares him for doing 120km/h around a gravel strewn corner yet Maureen gets launched under a truck when doing 75? Perhaps Maureen is the one who has experience riding on many different corners with gravel on them while Clancy has encountered three curves like that in eight years and has fallen off every time?

On the limited information presented I am just saying that yes, Maureen is less likely to make an ACC claim therefore they would consider her the 'better' rider. It is somewhat redundant anyway with levies based on engine size alone. It's a shame that they don't take past experience and previous claims in to account when setting individual levies, but that's another thread.

[Smifffy]

Clearly Maureen is a goer.

[koba]

I think Marc Marquez crashed 12 times this season? We're all better riders than him then :D

That's the point I was thinking of on reading the title.
This is one area I could beat Marquez on, my best is 8 in one day.

But then he probably has me beat there too, who knows, who cares.

[MIXONE]

Does she root?


Have you seen her?

Reverse cowboy.
Problem solved.

[Big Dave]

Indy ran away to sea for the want of one such.

[swbarnett]

On the limited information presented I am just saying that yes, Maureen is less likely to make an ACC claim therefore they would consider her the 'better' rider.
Agreed. We really don't have enough information to make an informed judgement.


It's a shame that they don't take past experience and previous claims in to account when setting individual levies, but that's another thread.
ACC is not about individual risk like insurance. A much fairer thing would be to tak all ACC costs from tax revenue. This way all pay for the rehabilitation of individuals. This is fair because we all benifit from a healthy, productive population.

[avgas]

Possibly.
She is also a boring, old, ugly lady.

Pity should couldn't sing - she could be famous.

I'd rather be a bad rider.

[Ender EnZed]

Crashing when you're pushing your own limits doesn't make you a bad rider. Pushing your own limits on the road does make you a fuckwit though.