Lawyer advocating 10% less jail sentence for Maori

[PrincessBandit]

Yep, we have a lawyer stating that Maori should get lighter sentences because being Maori disadvantages them socially.

Wonder how far that caper will go?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9422033/Mongrel-Mob-member-seeks-shorter-sentence-for-being-Maori

[bogan]

<img src="http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/racist1.gif" />

[F5 Dave]

Well he should get 50 or 60% less prison time because he's a career criminal. He's far more likely to find himself in the wrong place at the wrong time & likely to be judged harshly for all those repeat offences. It makes sense I think.

Then shoot the stupid cunt. that kid killed ain't coming back to life.

[PrincessBandit]

Dear Bogan,

obviously being racist is in the eye of the whatever, and is ok depending on the circumstances. (????)

yeah, nah.

[Maha]

The poor things, they obviously have a 10% worse upbringing than any other race living within NZ.

[LankyBastard]

Handing out lighter sentences is more likely to stop them offending.






Yeah Right

[bogan]

Dear Bogan,

obviously being racist is in the eye of the whatever, and is ok depending on the circumstances. (????)

yeah, nah.

Dear PB&J sammich,

Playing the race card is affair based around a convolution of simplicity. Successful playment is when you opponent cannot refute such a card without being subject to a second dosery of the race card. However in cases like above, you have an all-in race card situation, whereby both sides have grounds to play the card against one another. How high will the stack of card go before it topples is anyone guess.

[PrincessBandit]

I just love this bit:

Christchurch defence lawyer James Rapley said Maori should receive shorter prison sentences because they come from an environment of social deprivation and inequality.

"Fifty-one per cent of the prison population is Maori," he told the Court of Appeal. "Everyone says everyone should be treated alike and equally, but not everyone is equal."

Well, no shit Sherlock.

And just how does reducing prison time for being Maori make "everyone equal"? Or I am I missing something here?

[SMOKEU]

Maori have even more opportunities for support and success than any other racial group in NZ, just because of their race. Throughout my school and tertiary education, there have been extra programs and support specifically targeted at Maori students. Why don't white people get the same? The fact that Maori make up the majority of the prison population is because they are genetically more predisposed to commit criminal acts than any other race in NZ (well, maybe except for ragheads and North African coons, but that's a whole different thread alltogether).

This guy is obviously a muppet, just take a look at him. He deserves some proper South African style justice (mob lyncing and necklacing), not some pathetically weak sentence. How many other victims are there going to be at his hands once he is released from prison?

[Gremlin]

"Fifty-one per cent of the prison population is Maori," he told the Court of Appeal. "Everyone says everyone should be treated alike and equally, but not everyone is equal."

I fail to understand the problem. They broke the law. They got caught. Thankfully, they got sent to jail as a reasonable punishment (probably not long enough). Seems pretty fair to me. I don't care what the percentage break down is. If you broke the law, got caught and sent to jail, it's pretty simple.

Like someone currently (noticed it in the Herald app). Guy wants a lighter sentence because he feels it was harsh compared to others. I couldn't care less. Was it within the bounds of laws stipulating how long you could be sentenced for, for that crime? Yes? Then it's fine. Once again:

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i57/2/1/26/frabz-stop-breaking-the-law-asshole-70db71.jpg

[tigertim20]

Yep, we have a lawyer stating that Maori should get lighter sentences because being Maori disadvantages them socially.

Wonder how far that caper will go?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9422033/Mongrel-Mob-member-seeks-shorter-sentence-for-being-Maori

fuckin dumb fuckin cunt. hope the prick gets shanked and we dont have to deal with this gang-bitch dumb-fuck piece of shit. :bash:

[Maha]

I just love this bit:

Christchurch defence lawyer James Rapley said Maori should receive shorter prison sentences because they come from an environment of social deprivation and inequality.

"Fifty-one per cent of the prison population is Maori," he told the Court of Appeal. "Everyone says everyone should be treated alike and equally, but not everyone is equal."

Well, no shit Sherlock.

And just how does reducing prison time for being Maori make "everyone equal"? Or I am I missing something here?

In all fairness Dawn, the Maori were here 2nd, thanks to the white man showing up, 150 years later, some of them now have a place to call home.

[PrincessBandit]

here's a piccy of Mr. Lawyer


290121

[English Kiwi]

I just love this bit:

Christchurch defence lawyer James Rapley said Maori should receive shorter prison sentences because they come from an environment of social deprivation and inequality.

"Fifty-one per cent of the prison population is Maori," he told the Court of Appeal. "Everyone says everyone should be treated alike and equally, but not everyone is equal."

How on earth did he pass the Barr Exam?? :facepalm:

He should be struck off for those comments!

[Robert Taylor]

Whats that lefty lawyer Rcktfish got to say about this? ( Shane Law - rey )

Maybe they should also only be represented by lawyers of the same ethnicity and such lawyers should be paid 10% more by taxing by 10% more the racist European ethnicity lawyers................

[oldrider]

Yep, we have a lawyer stating that Maori should get lighter sentences because being Maori disadvantages them socially.

Wonder how far that caper will go?


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9422033/Mongrel-Mob-member-seeks-shorter-sentence-for-being-Maori

No worries, David Cunliffe the new Labour "leader" will be along with a promise that if they are elected as government next year they will do this!

[SMOKEU]

What I really don't like is the double standards that many Maori have. They're the first to pull out the race card when they don't get their own way, but then they say that they should be treated better/differently, just because they're Maori. They tend to be the most racist people in this country.*




*I'm not accusing all Maori of being like that. I've met many hard working Maoris who wouldn't even dream of pulling out the race card, and who don't expect preferential treatment for being Maori.

[Akzle]

how about yall crackers fuck off. Take your lawyers, politicians and money with you.
Then, coons cant expect handouts from you, and i dont have to hear you whining about anything to do with any of those 3 thing, or murrays..

[SMOKEU]

how about yall crackers fuck off. Take your lawyers, politicians and money with you.
Then, coons cant expect handouts from you, and i dont have to hear you whining about anything to do with any of those 3 thing, or murrays..

What would Maoris do without KFC and the unemployment benefit?

[300weatherby]

Smoky ie exactly right, there is the element of maori that wants it both ways, should only be one set of rules. Given 14% of the population commits most of the crime, and is half our prison population, punishment should in fact be a great deal more severe, in order to help those committing all the crime, understand that there are consequences for committing the bloody crime.

Only a few generations ago, moari were slave trading genocidal stone age cannabals, for whom the practice of infanticide was normal. Evolution moves slowly for some, hence the prison population ratio. Not all of them choose to be like that, and guess what, those ones are not, in jail.

We should have ONLY one rule of law. Don't care if you are black, brown, red, currie muncher, asian, raghead or other: ONE LAW ONLY!!!

[rustyrobot]

What would Maoris do without KFC and the unemployment benefit?

Aren't you on the dole? Just sayin.

[Akzle]

What would Maoris do without KFC and the unemployment benefit?

be nice to find out eh...
Probably hunt down afrikaaner overstayers and club them to death and make garments out of their skins and necklaces from their teeth...

[PrincessBandit]

No worries, David Cunliffe the new Labour "leader" will be along with a promise that if they are elected as government next year they will do this!

You really need to stop scaring me!! :msn-wink::laugh:




We should have ONLY one rule of law. Don't care if you are black, brown, red, currie muncher, asian, raghead or other: ONE LAW ONLY!!!

Hmmmmm, yes, but whose?

[mashman]

be nice to find out eh...
Probably hunt down afrikaaner overstayers and club them to death and make garments out of their skins and necklaces from their teeth...

Don't forget the baw bag pockets.

[SMOKEU]

Aren't you on the dole? Just sayin.

I used to be, but then I got off my lazy ass and started studying toward a diploma, which I'm 99% of the way through finishing as I didn't want to live that sort of life being a leech on society.


be nice to find out eh...
Probably hunt down afrikaaner overstayers and club them to death and make garments out of their skins and necklaces from their teeth...

Just as well I'm a NZ citizen. :lol:

[Akzle]

Given 14% of the population commits most of the crime, and is half our prison population, punishment should in fact be a great deal more severe, in order to help those committing all the crime, understand that there are consequences for committing the bloody crime.

Only a few generations ago, moari were slave trading genocidal stone age cannabals, for whom the practice of infanticide was normal. Evolution moves slowly for some, hence the prison population ratio. Not all of them choose to be like that, and guess what, those ones are not, in jail.


thats a fairly narrow and ignorant position. Id wager that the *monetary* value of white (collar) crime is higher than that done by our dusky brethren.
In fact, the processing thereof in the crackeroo courts keeps a shitload of (white) jews and PO employed.
So its actually in your racist candy ass interest that the 'crime' continue.

[Akzle]

Don't forget the baw bag pockets.

yeah but what use little white ones? Could hardly fit a day's baccy!

[willytheekid]

here's a piccy of Mr. Lawyer


Thanks PB :D....adds to the "valid parking spot" list

:scratch:wait!...I thought we already had ridiculously fuckin short jail sentence's...for ALL NZ criminals?:confused:

[Asher]

I wonder how the lawyer would feel if someone proposed Maori lawyers get paid 10% more.

Or Maori got 10% harsher penalties since they wasted all of the extra opportunities they have available.

[mashman]

yeah but what use little white ones? Could hardly fit a day's baccy!

Never lose your change again.

http://www.coincollectinghq.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/coin_rolls.jpg

[300weatherby]

thats a fairly narrow and ignorant position. Id wager that the *monetary* value of white (collar) crime is higher than that done by our dusky brethren.
In fact, the processing thereof in the crackeroo courts keeps a shitload of (white) jews and PO employed.
So its actually in your racist candy ass interest that the 'crime' continue.

So, in your estemed estimation, violent assualts, rape, murder, burglury are ok, and being maori means you should be allowed to carry out that kind of crime, and recieve a lesser punishment for it.

How exactly,is it ingorant and narrow minded to hold the position that ALL should be equal under one law only, please explain.

Please give me your definition of "Jewness", your constant reference to "them Jews" being the sneaky real problem is baffling to me as I don't know what they are, other than a people that have suffered some of the worst predudice and oppression in history, accross a couple thousand years. Would appreciate your intellegent, rational and fact based explaination as why the Jews are a problem on any level.

[scumdog]

Would appreciate your intellegent, rational and fact based explaination as why the Jews are a problem on any level.

Fuck you're expecting a bit much from these numpties!!!:eek::rolleyes:

[Zedder]

thats a fairly narrow and ignorant position. Id wager that the *monetary* value of white (collar) crime is higher than that done by our dusky brethren.
In fact, the processing thereof in the crackeroo courts keeps a shitload of (white) jews and PO employed.
So its actually in your racist candy ass interest that the 'crime' continue.

A better practice would be to charge the crims for their prison stays like in 18th century Britain.

This would help balance the books a bit and save the tax payers plenty. Presumably a 10% discount could be arranged for repeat offenders...

[Akzle]

So, in your estemed estimation, violent assualts, rape, murder, burglury are ok, and being maori means you should be allowed to carry out that kind of crime, and recieve a lesser punishment for it.

How exactly,is it ingorant and narrow minded to hold the position that ALL should be equal under one law only, please explain.

Please give me your definition of "Jewness", your constant reference to "them Jews" being the sneaky real problem is baffling to me as I don't know what they are, other than a people that have suffered some of the worst predudice and oppression in history, accross a couple thousand years. Would appreciate your intellegent, rational and fact based explaination as why the Jews are a problem on any level.
this is a jew:

Fuck you're expecting a bit much from these numpties!!!:eek::rolleyes:

youll notice that i removed the part of your post about some kind of equality, or maybe not?
I was speaking only to the slave trading infantogenocidocanibal stone age part.

Im not condoning any of those things. I was talking about the petty shit that most often fills the jails with darkies.
And im slightly miffed that you manage punctuation and capitalisation but spell mãori wrong. And the assumption that the 14% caught and jailed are doing the most harm.
Lock up some darkies, make society a better place!

[Berries]

Lock up some darkies, make society a better place!
He's learning.

[Akzle]

A better practice would be to charge the crims for their prison stays like in 18th century Britain.

This would help balance the books a bit and save the tax payers plenty. Presumably a 10% discount could be arranged for repeat offenders...

OR...
not.
i think if 18th century britain stayed in britain, there'd be less of a problem.

[Fastmark]

Maori have even more opportunities for support and success than any other racial group in NZ, just because of their race. Throughout my school and tertiary education, there have been extra programs and support specifically targeted at Maori students. Why don't white people get the same? The fact that Maori make up the majority of the prison population is because they are genetically more predisposed to commit criminal acts than any other race in NZ (well, maybe except for ragheads and North African coons, but that's a whole different thread alltogether).

This guy is obviously a muppet, just take a look at him. He deserves some proper South African style justice (mob lyncing and necklacing), not some pathetically weak sentence. How many other victims are there going to be at his hands once he is released from prison?

Totally agree with the first part, not sure about the genetically predisposed to offending though. However my daughters who are at UOA get totally pissed off with the ridiculous amount of support thrown at the Maori/island population when they get jack shit. So they like just about every other non ethnic student they do part time work to supplement their fees. When is it going to be one law for all, no if's or buts just a level playing field.

And as Fletcher would says (from porridge) If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime, fucking simple really:mad:

[Zedder]

OR...
not.
i think if 18th century britain stayed in britain, there'd be less of a problem.


Very true, if they'd have waited a bit longer Maori would have killed, and eaten, themselves out of existence.

It's much easier to colonise vacant countries...

[oldrider]

Nothing wrong with the suggestion in my opinion, it makes good economic sense to try to negotiate better deals for high volume trade! :rolleyes:

All the statistics show much higher volume of Maori through the justice and legal system so they should be "entitled" to some recompense! :yes:

[Swoop]

Make the jails a place that you DON'T want to go back to (no under-floor heating, sky tv, etc, etc).

Fuck all the PC bollocks. Do the crime and then do the time. No "alternative" sets of rules for different sectors of society.

Next they will be saying Maori don't live as long as europeans/asians/etc, so should be getting shorter sentences because of that.

[Zedder]

Make the jails a place that you DON'T want to go back to (no under-floor heating, sky tv, etc, etc).

Fuck all the PC bollocks. Do the crime and then do the time. No "alternative" sets of rules for different sectors of society.

Next they will be saying Maori don't live as long as europeans/asians/etc, so should be getting shorter sentences because of that.

Why have jails at all? They're a very expensive band-aid solution to the real problem which is bad parents having bad children.

[SMOKEU]

Why have jails at all? They're a very expensive band-aid solution to the real problem which is bad parents having bad children.

The government should stop sluts from breeding who are too poor to even feed themselves, let alone a whole tribe of unwanted offspring. Any chicks on the unemployment benefit/whatever the fuck you call it these days benefit should have their weekly handout reduced if they don't take monthly contraception injections to stop this cycle of child abuse and crime.

[imdying]

I think we all know the problem, and we all know what needs to be done.

Shit will have to get quite serious before that action is taken though... to breed is still fiercely defended as a fundamental human right, rather than a privilege.

The majority of our problems have no basis in race, and race will continue to dwindle in importance as a factor as the real problem becomes too large to ignore. Of course the vast majority of humanity will be well fucked by then.

My advice to all is to make sure you are in the haves and not the have nots. There seems to be a pretty good chance that by doing so, you will be unaffected by most of this before you die, and after that, well it's just not your problem anymore. Result :woohoo:

[Zedder]

I think we all know the problem, and we all know what needs to be done.

Shit will have to get quite serious before that action is taken though... to breed is still fiercely defended as a fundamental human right, rather than a privilege.

The majority of our problems have no basis in race, and race will continue to dwindle in importance as a factor as the real problem becomes too large to ignore. Of course the vast majority of humanity will be well fucked by then.

My advice to all is to make sure you are in the haves and not the have nots. There seems to be a pretty good chance that by doing so, you will be unaffected by most of this before you die, and after that, well it's just not your problem anymore. Result :woohoo:

The have and have not scenario is one way of looking at it.

However, I was more along the lines of the correct path to being a parent. It's strange there's all sorts of licences for driving etc however, for probably the most important job in life of raising adults (not children, parents raise adults) there's nothing.

[PrincessBandit]

It's strange there's all sorts of licences for driving etc however, for probably the most important job in life of raising adults (not children, parents raise adults) there's nothing.

Thousands of years of "evolution" (of mankind, not a creationist argument here) compared to a relatively short blip in the scale of time that people have been in charge of modern-day vehicles. History obviously has had it's share of "horse accidents, chariot accidents, boat accidents' etc. which have lead to death but not on the same likely scale of carnage as motor vehicles.

People have been popping out sprogs without question (issue of survival of the race, and all that) for so many millenia that you'd think we'd have perfected some sort of a system by now. Just goes to show that for all our so-called advanced civilisation many are still physically/mentally/emotionally stuck in the stone age when it comes to what causes boy thingies and girly thingies to meet and make baby thingies.

I don't know specifically about genetic or racial disposition - there are monumental losers in all races when it comes to humanitarian issues.

[imdying]

All good points, and becoming more and more relevant. Up till now it hasn't had much of an impact, but we can't keep filling all of the space on earth with (human) trash. Given that every race generates it, I don't see it as a racial issue. Yes Maori currently fill the prisons, and yes a breeding permit will curtail their population for a number of generations (on the assumption people who have been to prison are instantly removed from the breeding pool), but once the wheat is sorted from the chaff, they will undoubtedly bounce back, stronger than ever.

But that is some serious social engineering, and we'll have to royally fuck the place up before that can be considered by masses. Mind you, if they let that in, they can probably control the ethnic mix of people born here too. Hopefully we'll all be toffee coloured people by then and unlikely to give a shit :D

I dunno... I just can't see it playing out any other way when we're at 20, 30, 50 billion people... ok, one other way, but none of the previous world wars have done anything to cull the total population back long term, and an all out nuclear conflict wouldn't be moving humanity forward.

Take my advice, make sure you're a have, not a have not, and live out your life getting the most enjoyment you can. You can't do shit about it, so leave it as somebody elses problem... fingers crossed we'll all be dead before this sort of stuff can't be ignored :D

Peace out my niggers :D

[Zedder]

Thousands of years of "evolution" (of mankind, not a creationist argument here) compared to a relatively short blip in the scale of time that people have been in charge of modern-day vehicles. History obviously has had it's share of "horse accidents, chariot accidents, boat accidents' etc. which have lead to death but not on the same likely scale of carnage as motor vehicles.

People have been popping out sprogs without question (issue of survival of the race, and all that) for so many millenia that you'd think we'd have perfected some sort of a system by now. Just goes to show that for all our so-called advanced civilisation many are still physically/mentally/emotionally stuck in the stone age when it comes to what causes boy thingies and girly thingies to meet and make baby thingies.

I don't know specifically about genetic or racial disposition - there are monumental losers in all races when it comes to humanitarian issues.

Sure PB, there's never a guarantee with the vehicle license situation there's not going to be mistakes/accidents etc. But the fact you need a licence says it all.

Yep, "so-called advanced civilisation" is right.

[jasonu]

Make the jails a place that you DON'T want to go back to (no under-floor heating, sky tv, etc, etc).


Like this one maybe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWteX6TmMrI
This is the way a prison SHOULD be run. Anyone with more than half a brain would think twice about doing anything that might result in being sent there.

[imdying]

Mmmm, perhaps... but I do not see that as the answer.

If I thought I was going to end up in a place like that for whatever offence I was planning on carrying out, I would be more inclined to take something with me that I could use to end the life of anybody who accidentally stumbled across me doing my nefarious business.

If I as a regular non criminal can join those dots, then a hardened criminal will presumably have no second thoughts about whacking you with a piece of pipe across the skull in an effort to stay out of there. The death sentence appears to have no effect (except on reoffending rates hahahaah), I don't see why this would be any different.

As hippy PC as it sounds, jail should be a place for rehabilitation.

[onearmedbandit]

Canada's take on things.

http://www.justiceeducation.ca/research/aboriginal-sentencing/gladue-sentencing


If you have been charged with a crime and are an Aboriginal person, there are special cultural considerations that the court must take into account in assessing your case. This applies to all Aboriginal peoples of Canada, including status and non-status Indian, Inuit, and Métis and whether living on or off reserve.

What this means is that, as an Aboriginal offender, a restorative justice process may be more appropriate for you. Such processes focus on healing those affected by the criminal act, including the offender, and so are more in line with traditional Aboriginal justice. Also, a restorative justice approach will often allow for a solution with no jail time, which helps reduce the drastic over-representation of Aboriginals in Canadian jails.


This does not, however, mean that all Aboriginal offenders automatically qualify for lighter sentences than non-Aboriginal offenders. The principles of sentencing apply to all offenders equally, and so in many situations such a remedy will not be appropriate to the circumstances of the case.

[mossy1200]

Would be better to issue a club card. Commit 9 crimes and get the 10th one free.

[Zedder]

All good points, and becoming more and more relevant. Up till now it hasn't had much of an impact, but we can't keep filling all of the space on earth with (human) trash. Given that every race generates it, I don't see it as a racial issue. Yes Maori currently fill the prisons, and yes a breeding permit will curtail their population for a number of generations (on the assumption people who have been to prison are instantly removed from the breeding pool), but once the wheat is sorted from the chaff, they will undoubtedly bounce back, stronger than ever.

But that is some serious social engineering, and we'll have to royally fuck the place up before that can be considered by masses. Mind you, if they let that in, they can probably control the ethnic mix of people born here too. Hopefully we'll all be toffee coloured people by then and unlikely to give a shit :D

I dunno... I just can't see it playing out any other way when we're at 20, 30, 50 billion people... ok, one other way, but none of the previous world wars have done anything to cull the total population back long term, and an all out nuclear conflict wouldn't be moving humanity forward.

Take my advice, make sure you're a have, not a have not, and live out your life getting the most enjoyment you can. You can't do shit about it, so leave it as somebody elses problem... fingers crossed we'll all be dead before this sort of stuff can't be ignored :D

Peace out my niggers :D

I obviously missed your post earlier.

Yeah, I get what you're writing about. Just to clarify though, I'm not talking about population control, just some formalised training/education about being a parent.

As far as the have and have not issue, that's a purely subjective. Each person has their own level and I dropped off the treadmill a while ago for a bit of a break and can safely say I'm getting the most out of my lifestyle at present. However, I may well go back to a fulltime job when I've achieved my short term goals.

[EJK]

I'm not racist. Racism is a crime and crime is for Maori people.

[Mo NZ]

I will see your 10 0/0 off and raise it to cumulative sentencing ( that's 6 crimes = 6 penalties - one after the other ), dispensing of the concurrent sentencing F'n joke we have now..

[rustyrobot]

I will see your 10 0/0 off and raise it to cumulative sentencing ( that's 6 crimes = 6 penalties - one after the other ), dispensing of the concurrent sentencing F'n joke we have now..

I totally agree - it's absolutely ludicrous. Like taking out 6 x $10000 loans at the same time and only having to pay back $10000.

[Akzle]

I will see your 10 0/0 off and raise it to cumulative sentencing ( that's 6 crimes = 6 penalties - one after the other ), dispensing of the concurrent sentencing F'n joke we have now..

but... that's not so profitable....

[SMOKEU]

but... that's not so profitable....

Jews at their best.

[mashman]

Thousands of years of "evolution" (of mankind, not a creationist argument here) compared to a relatively short blip in the scale of time that people have been in charge of modern-day vehicles. History obviously has had it's share of "horse accidents, chariot accidents, boat accidents' etc. which have lead to death but not on the same likely scale of carnage as motor vehicles.

People have been popping out sprogs without question (issue of survival of the race, and all that) for so many millenia that you'd think we'd have perfected some sort of a system by now. Just goes to show that for all our so-called advanced civilisation many are still physically/mentally/emotionally stuck in the stone age when it comes to what causes boy thingies and girly thingies to meet and make baby thingies.

I don't know specifically about genetic or racial disposition - there are monumental losers in all races when it comes to humanitarian issues.

Neuter men after they've sired 2 children.

[Akzle]

Neuter men after they've sired 2 children.

git fukkered. i've had two children. at least. and y'aint taking my balls!

[Gremlin]

Would be better to issue a club card. Commit 9 crimes and get the 10th one free.
There is the 3 strikes law, for more serious offences (oh, and the howls when that was brought in)...

[Wingnut]

git fukkered. i've had two children. at least. and y'aint taking my balls!

Denial....... Balls you say.... Have you say :bleh:

[Akzle]

Denial....... Balls you say.... Have you say :bleh:

yes. and i shave them with a cut throat razor. that takes some..... balls....

[Banditbandit]

I'm not going to engage in this debate - the request by the lawyer is just bullshit - we joke about it sometimes .. but to take it seriously shows a profound misunderstadning on many levels .. so I'll let it go at that ...

Except for this ...


The fact that Maori make up the majority of the prison population is because they are genetically more predisposed to commit criminal acts than any other race in NZ

That's just BULLSHIT ... BULLSHIT and BULLSHIT ... there's no foundation for that stament ... it's complete racist bullshit ... much the same as "women have smaller brains than men and therefore should not be involved in politics and should not vote - they should stay home and look after the kids "

Just bullshit ..

[Banditbandit]

And this ...


When is it going to be one law for all, no if's or buts just a level playing field.




Yes - I agree. There should be a level playing field ...

When I see two women charged with shoplifting minor items from Countdown (two separate instances) and one goes to jail and the other gets a fine ... and it's the Māōri one that goes to jail ..

Tell me how that shows a level playing field ??

When a Māori group challenges the question of ownership through the courts and the courts say "Interesting question - let's run it through the legal system" and the Government says "Can't have that" and pass laws denying that Māori group their day in court -

Tell me how that is a level playing field ...

White people's law favours white people

Capitalist law favours capitalists ...

Yes, do the crime - do the time .. but don't tell me the law favours Māori .. it so demonstratably does not ...

[SMOKEU]

That's just BULLSHIT ... BULLSHIT and BULLSHIT ... there's no foundation for that stament ... it's complete racist bullshit ... much the same as "women have smaller brains than men and therefore should not be involved in politics and should not vote - they should stay home and look after the kids "

Just bullshit ..

Then why are Maoris overrepresented in the prison statistics in comparison to white people? I'm just stating facts as I see them. You're the one who deems those facts to be "racist".

[Bald Eagle]

Well the police and courts are in the business of catching and processing criminals so thats who end up in the prisons. If the percentage doesnt match the population spread thats unfortunate , not racism.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[Bald Eagle]

or should we impose demographic quotas to make it match. Almost as silly as discount for ethnicity.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[rustyrobot]

Then why are Maoris overrepresented in the prison statistics in comparison to white people? I'm just stating facts as I see them. You're the one who deems those facts to be "racist".

There may be a fact in what you said, but then there's this huge leap/assumption which really just shows your mindset rather than anything factual. Besides, I thought you were fairly open about being a white supremacist?

[imdying]

When I see two women charged with shoplifting minor items from Countdown (two separate instances) and one goes to jail and the other gets a fine ... and it's the Māōri one that goes to jail ..

Tell me how that shows a level playing field ?? That's not the whole story though is it... chances are high that the Maori woman has prior offences.

[imdying]

Then why are Maoris overrepresented in the prison statistics in comparison to white people? I'm just stating facts as I see them. You're the one who deems those facts to be "racist".He is saying that whatever causes that, it's not genetic, which appears to be a fair argument. Given that genetics being responsible is your argument, it's up to you to prove it, not for him to refute it. I'm not a geneticist, so I don't have an opinion. I think rustyrobot highlighted the flaw in your statement.

[Banditbandit]

Then why are Maoris overrepresented in the prison statistics in comparison to white people? I'm just stating facts as I see them. You're the one who deems those facts to be "racist".

That's a complicated answer ...

Firstly, because lower socio-economic groups (poor people) are over represented in prison populations .. Māori make up a good chunk of our lower socio-economic groups .. so do poor people have a pre-disposition to commit crimes??? I think not ...

Secondly, it's a consequence of colonization - across the world colonized people are over represented in prison populations ... that does not excuse the behaviour - crime needs to be punished - but the long term social solutions to crime should be different ...

Now I will not use either of those factors to argue for more lenient treatment for Māori in the courts ... crime is crime and should be punished ... but the court system is not a level playing field for Māori ...

Studies like QUince's 1999 work are easy to find


Maori adults were 3.8 times more likely tob be prosecuted than non-Maori and 3.9 times more likely to be convicted of an
offence.

Nine times as many Maori than non-Maori are remanded in custody awaiting trial.

This does not mean that Māori commit more crimes - it means that, having been caught by police doing something wrong, they are more likely to be charegd than a non-Māori person .. and having been charged are more likely to be convicted than a non-Māori person ...

It means the police are less inclined to issue a warning, or offer diversion .. why ???
It means that a jury is more likely to view a Māori person as guilty than a non-Māōri person ... Why?? Jury seats are filled with racist shitheads like you or something ??


As well as disparities at the front end in the over-policing, charging and conviction of Maori, there are differences in the outcomes imposed on Maori in the criminal justice system. Seven times as many Maori as non-Maori are given a custodial
sentence upon conviction.

Maori are far less likely to be granted leave for home detention, or to receive a fiscal penalty.

Why ??? Why are Māori more likely to get a custodial sentence than non-Māori ???

Why should not Māōri get home detention - like the rest of the population??? Why do we get jailed instead of fined - fined like the non-Māori ???

It sure looks like a racist system to me ...

So, I am not defending Maori crime .. it occurs and it needs to be punished - But don't quote stats at me to show Maori are more likely to be criminals than non-Māori - the stats actually show the system is racist and favours non-Māōri ...

[Zedder]

I'm not goignto engage in this debate - the request by the lawyer is just bullshit - we joke about it sometimes .. but to take it seriously shows a profound misunderstadning on many levels .. so I'll let it go at that ...

Except for this ...



That's just BULLSHIT ... BULLSHIT and BULLSHIT ... there's no foundation for that stament ... it's complete racist bullshit ... much the same as "women have smaller brains than men and therefore should not be involved in politics and should not vote - they should stay home and look after the kids "

Just bullshit ..

Yep, the lawyer was taking the piss alright.

As far as cockSmoku goes BB, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised, or offended, by what he writes on this subject.

[Banditbandit]

And you all think that Māori crime rates are bad .. have a look at this - also from Quince's study ...


In 2000, Maori males were the victims of 85 per cent more crime than pakeha males, and were 50 per cent more likely than them to have experienced acts or threats of violence. Maori females were the victims of twice as many crimes as pakeha females, and were twice as likely to have experienced acts or threats of violence from a partner.

So .. who does this crime affect ?? Us ... Māori ...

So is your concern for so called Māori crime rates" about your safety or ours??? .. This shows that we are the victims .. and I'm sure that racist shitheads like you are not that concerned with our safety ...

Your fears are media generated ... and the media is one fo the control mechainisms of the capitalist overlords .. You are just a tool of the ruling elite ... helping to keep the divisions that contrrol us alive and well.

Give it up .. we all oppose the ruling elite .. so give up your racist attitudes and maybe - just maybe - we can find a solution that will work .. for all of us .. the us that lives here .. not the us of Māōri or Pākehā but the US that inhabits these islands ..

[Banditbandit]

Yep, the lawyer was taking the piss alright.

As far as cockSmoku goes BB, you shouldn't be the least bit surprised, or offended, by what he writes on this subject.

No, I'm not surprised - but he does represent a significant body of opinion on this forum and in our country - it is to that totality that I address my responses .. in the hope of at least affecting a small change in attitude ...

[Banditbandit]

Well the police and courts are in the business of catching and processing criminals so thats who end up in the prisons. If the percentage doesnt match the population spread thats unfortunate , not racism.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

Yes ... but see my previous answer .. what happens once they are caught is important .. and aopparently not equal


or should we impose demographic quotas to make it match. Almost as silly as discount for ethnicity.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

Yeah .. that's a very silly answer ... crims are crims .. MAKE SURE YOU TREAT THEM EQUALLY

[Banditbandit]

That's not the whole story though is it... chances are high that the Maori woman has prior offences.

They both had prior convictons .. I was a court reporter - both women came up on the same day - and recieved different treatment ..

[SMOKEU]

There may be a fact in what you said, but then there's this huge leap/assumption which really just shows your mindset rather than anything factual. Besides, I thought you were fairly open about being a white supremacist?


He is saying that whatever causes that, it's not genetic, which appears to be a fair argument. Given that genetics being responsible is your argument, it's up to you to prove it, not for him to refute it. I'm not a geneticist, so I don't have an opinion. I think rustyrobot highlighted the flaw in your statement.

Maori have more opportunities for success and support than any other racial group in NZ, yet they still manage to fuck up their lives and end up in jail at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori. All other things remaining equal, this is proof that Maori are more genetically predisposed to crime than non Maori in NZ. If it's not genetic, then what is it, a mere coincidence?


That's a complicated answer ...

Firstly, because lower socio-economic groups (poor people) are over represetrned in prison populations .. Māori make up a good chunk of our lower socio-economic groups .. so do poor people have a pre-disposition to commit crimes??? I think not ...

Secondly, it's a consequence of colonization - across the world colonized people are over represetned in prison populations ... that does not excuee the bahavoir - and crime needs to be punished - but the long term social solutions to crime should be different ...

Now I wil not use either of those factors to argue for more lenient treatment for Māori in the courts ... crime is crime and should be punished ... but the court system is not a level playing field for Māori ...

Studies like QUince's 1999 work are easy to find

THis does not mean that Maotri commit more crimes - it means that, having been caught by police doing something wrong they are more likely to be charegd than a non-Māori person .. and having been charged are more likelyt to be convicted than a non-Māori person ...

It means the police are less inclined to issue a warning, or offer diversion .. why ???
It means that a jury is more likely to view a Māori person as guilty than a non-Māōri person ... Why?? Jury seats are filled with racist shitheads like you or something ??

Why ??? Why are Māori more likely to get a custodial sentence than non-Māri ???

Why should not Māōri get home detention - like the rest of the population??? Why do we get jailed instead of fined - fined like the non-Māori ???

It sure looks like a racist system to me ...

So, I am not defending Maori crime .. it occurs and it needs to be punished - But don't quote stats at me to show Maori are more likely to be criminals than non-Maori - the stats actually show the system is racist and favours non-Māōri ...

I don't believe the justice system in NZ is racist enough to treat Maori worse than other racial groups based purely on their race, and not other factors such as a history of previous criminal offending which will factor into the decision to press charges, grant/deny bail or a term of imprisonment.

If the only difference between the races was skin colour and minor variations in body size and shape, and if people really are all the same regardless of race, then there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in the rate of criminal offending between the races since Maori have been living under "our" system for many generations and are well accustomed to living in "our" society with "our" rules.

[Banditbandit]

Maori have more opportunities for success and support than any other racial group in NZ, yet they still manage to fuck up their lives and end up in jail at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori. All other things remaining equal, this is proof that Maori are more genetically predisposed to crime than non Maori in NZ. If it's not genetic, then what is it, a mere coincidence?



So - you say "more opportunities" .. Name them - show them - be specific - where's your evidence ???


I don't believe the justice system in NZ is racist enough to treat Maori worse than other racial groups based purely on their race, and not other factors such as a history of previous criminal offending which will factor into the decision to press charges, grant/deny bail or a term of imprisonment.

You deny the evidence collected and presented???


If the only difference between the races was skin colour and minor variations in body size and shape, and if people really are all the same regardless of race,

No ifs or buts .. they are all the same ...


then there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in the rate of criminal offending between the races

Yes ... that is totally true - so the reasons for the differences can't be genetic ... you argue my case for me ... no, there SHOULD not be any difference ... but the system itself is biased against Māori .. you can deny it all you like, but your own arguments lead in that direction ...


since Maori have been living under "our" system for many generations and are well accustomed to living in "our" society with "our" rules.

That's somewehat ironic coming from an immigrant such as yourself ...

[Shadowjack]

Like it or not, it would seem the lawyer was simply doing what he could to do the best he could for his client.
And, sadly, given a platform for the so-called "white""supremacist" amongst us to have another wee ranty...

[imdying]

Maori have more opportunities for success and support than any other racial group in NZ, yet they still manage to fuck up their lives and end up in jail at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori.

All other things remaining equal, this is proof that Maori are more genetically predisposed to crime than non Maori in NZ.Plenty of other people from all races manage to fuck their shit up. That would indicate that whatever the chief mitigating factors are, genetics isn't one of them... or at least if it were a gene, it's a gene common to all races.


If it's not genetic, then what is it, a mere coincidence?Banditbandit has given a few examples of what other things are likely to be the primary drivers.

[imdying]

So - you say "more opportunities" .. Name them - show them - be specific - where's your evidence ???He could start with their own scholarships and national sports teams.

[SMOKEU]

So - you say "more opportunities" .. Name them - show them - be specific - where's your evidence ???

You deny the evidence collected and presented???

No ifs or buts .. they are all the same ...

Yes ... that is totally true - so the reasons for the differences can't be genetic ... you argue my case for me ... no, there SHOULD not be any difference ... but the system itself is biased against Māōri .. you can deny it all you like, but your own argumetns lead in that direction ...

That's somewehat ironic coming from an immigrant such as yourself ...

1. As I've already said, throughout my school and tertiary education in NZ, there has been extra support targeted purely at Maori students. Things like extra student support, counselling, tutoring, cultural groups etc. I have not seen the same for any other racial groups.

2. I don't make the rules. If the system is really that racist, then you're talking to the wrong person about it.

3. There are obvious differences between the races. Body size and shape differs notably between the races meaning that we're not all physically the same.

4. All I've heard so far is excuses, and no one has yet been able to show me any convicing proof to state why Maori are involved in such higher levels of crime than non Maori. Since all other things remain equal (education, healthcare, etc), then the differences must be genetic. If Maori were discriminated against in the way that blacks were treated under Apartheid, then there would be justification for the higher crime rate, but since they're treated the same as ever other person (if not better) in a legal sense there shouldn't be any meaningful difference in crime per capita if genetics weren't a factor.

I've done a quick Google search on Maori child abuse (https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=maori+child+abuse&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&gfe_rd=ctrl&ei=aIqOUpDXE6yN8Qe67YHIAQ&gws_rd=cr). It seems like they beat their children at a disproportinately higher rate than non Maori too.

Note how in my post I haven't done a "Maori vs whites" comparison. I've chosen to compare Maori with "non Maori" in order to get a less "racist" comparison by involving other racial groups in NZ as well.

[SMOKEU]

Plenty of other people from all races manage to fuck their shit up. That would indicate that whatever the chief mitigating factors are, genetics isn't one of them... or at least if it were a gene, it's a gene common to all races.


I have met many highly successful and intelligent Maori people, and many stupid white criminals who should be imprisoned for the rest of their meaningless lives. I never said that all Maoris are criminals, or that all whites are honest people. I was merely pointing out the fact that statistically, Maoris are imprisoned at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori per capita.

[imdying]

4. All I've heard so far is excuses, and no one has yet been able to show me any convicing proof to state why Maori are involved in such higher levels of crime than non Maori. Since all other things remain equal (education, healthcare, etc), then the differences must be genetic.They do not though. If I was sick as a child, my mother would take me to the doctor... she could easily afford time off work, and transportation to and from. That is not the reality for lower socio-economic house holds. Although things change, and generally improve, the truth is still that the only equality that exists in some of these sectors is availability, but not access. Or rather, just because there is a doctor down the road, does not mean that mum can afford the time off to take you there, or could afford to pay for the visit even if she could, and many other such variations on that theme...

If you are poor, and you have a hand me down school uniform, maybe out of date in some areas, instantly you are 'different' at the school, and you know how children treat things that are different... That puts you on the back foot, which cannot help but to affect your ability to learn. And so the cycle repeats.

[imdying]

I was merely pointing out the fact that statistically, Maoris are imprisoned at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori per capita.No you were not; that is not in dispute. You said that that happened because of genetics, a statement to which you can provide no evidence to support.

[SMOKEU]

They do not though. If I was sick as a child, my mother would take me to the doctor... she could easily afford time off work, and transportation to and from. That is not the reality for lower socio-economic house holds. Although things change, and generally improve, the truth is still that the only equality that exists in some of these sectors is availability, but not access. Or rather, just because there is a doctor down the road, does not mean that mum can afford the time off to take you there, or could afford to pay for the visit even if she could, and many other such variations on that theme...

If you are poor, and you have a hand me down school uniform, maybe out of date in some areas, instantly you are 'different' at the school, and you know how children treat things that are different... That puts you on the back foot, which cannot help but to affect your ability to learn. And so the cycle repeats.

Those are some very valid points, assuming that Maori = poor. They could go out and get an education to make something of themselves, in the same way that non Maori in NZ frequently do. I do also understand that the poverty cycle can be extremely hard to break out of, but I don't see why that should be any more difficult for a Maori than a non Maori being brought up in a similarly financially disadvanted background.


No you were not; that is not in dispute. You said that that happened because of genetics, a statement to which you can provide no evidence to support.

I'm looking at all relevant factors I can think of, then looking at what's different between Maori and non Maori. The only difference I can find so far is genetic/racial.

[jahrasti]

And this ...




Yes - I agree. There should be a level playing field ...

When I see two women charged with shoplifting minor items from Countdown (two separate instances) and one goes to jail and the other gets a fine ... and it's the M��ri one that goes to jail ..

Tell me how that shows a level playing field ??

When a M�ori group challenges the question of ownership through the courts and the courts say "Interesting question - let's run it through the legal system" and the Government says "Can't have that" and pass laws denying that M�ori group their day in court -

Tell me how that is a level playing field ...

White people's law favours white people

Capitalist law favours capitalists ...

Yes, do the crime - do the time .. but don't tell me the law favours M�ori .. it so demonstratably does not ...

This is very interesting, you state that the Maori female is incarcerated and the European female not. Both of whom had previous convictions and were given different sentences based on race.

Well I ask what previous convictions. To use this statement you must be aware of the number of previous convictions. Did both females have the same conviction history? How do you know, as a reporter I would be surprised if you were given a copy of previous convictions.

If I go against the norm and surmise that the European female had 10 previous convictions and the Maori female three previous and the outcome is as you put it then the sentencing is disproportionate to the offending and grounds for an appeal. Remember that was an example.

Then I move onto IF both females were the same in every respect, why wasnt a fine considered? Maybe both females had been given fines for their last offending, they both earn the same and have the same outgoings. The Maori female (for example) CHOOSES not to pay her fine but the European female CHOOSES to pay hers. If this example were true should they both be given the opportunity for a fine?

Also were the females also currently charged with other offences? It just intrigues me that you have chosen this example. The charge simpliciter carries a MAXIMUM of three months imprisonment.

If you want to throw accusations around I know of a Youth Court judge who is disproportionately softer to young Maori offenders. No I cant offer examples as my work life and my keyboard warrior life need to remain in two different plains.

As for who I think that the law favours, well I think its the peeps that are in court everyday (not the offenders) who win in the Justice system.

[bogan]

You said that that happened because of genetics, a statement to which you can provide no evidence to support.

Gotta be careful with the genetics calls, hard to know where you own lie :whistle:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/K1t6BPLUmUI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Zedder]

No, I'm not surprised - but he does represent a significant body of opinion on this forum and in our country - it is to that totality that I address my responses .. in the hope of at least affecting a small change in attitude ...

Good on you for trying to change things however, the "significant body of opinion..." could do with some data to support it.

[imdying]

but I don't see why that should be any more difficult for a Maori than a non Maori being brought up in a similarly financially disadvanted background.It's probably not, thus why there is plenty of 'white trash' in New Zealand with similar problems. Go drive down to Hampshire street... they're not all brown faces you see.


I'm looking at all relevant factors I can think of, then looking at what's different between Maori and non Maori. The only difference I can find so far is genetic/racial.Your lack of depth of knowledge on the topic should encourage you not to draw conclusions, rather than push you in any particular direction.

For example: I do not know why Jews all have big noses, but for me to decide that it must be because they have too much money, just isn't illogical.

[Banditbandit]

He could start with their own scholarships and national sports teams.

yes - he could - but he won't because he's running on myths and supposition .. as far as I know there are only three scholarships available to Māori that aere not available to non-Māori ...

Sure there are lots of hapu and iwi scholarships - those are the same as family trusts that pay for education ... they do not come from the pblic purse ..

[Banditbandit]

]why Maori are involved in such higher levels of crime than non Maori.

See .. there is no evidence of that - there is evidence of a disproportinate representation in prison populations .. that is not the same thing ...


I was merely pointing out the fact that statistically, Maoris are imprisoned at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori per capita.

Yes, that's it in a nutshell ...

With no other evidence you make the jump that Māori are more likely to be criminals .. I suggest that the studies show Māori are more likely to be imprisoned if they are caught ...


They could go out and get an education to make something of themselves, in the same way that non Maori in NZ frequently do. I do also understand that the poverty cycle can be extremely hard to break out of, but I don't see why that should be any more difficult for a Maori than a non Maori being brought up in a similarly financially disadvanted background.

Go here ... http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/knowledge-skills/participation-tertiary-education.html

It's not hard to see that Māori have a higher participation rate in tertiary education are higher than Pākehā, except in the 20-24 years old age group ... and in the older age group the participation rate is even higher than Asians - traditionally a high user group of education .. and in three of the five groups Māori participation rates are above the national average

We are getting our people educated .. that is part of the long term solution - and we are currently getting a higher percentage of our people educated than of the Pākehā population ..

You're running on suppositions and myths that are easily dispelled.


I'm looking at all relevant factors I can think of, then looking at what's different between Maori and non Maori. The only difference I can find so far is genetic/racial.

And yet you refuse to accept factors which show the court system is biased against Māori and you have not looked at the participation in education stats?

[rustyrobot]

I'm looking at all relevant factors I can think of, then looking at what's different between Maori and non Maori. The only difference I can find so far is genetic/racial.

Does it not make sense to you that when one group colonises another, the colonising force will put in place laws and structures which support their people? Take New Zealand out of the argument and I'm sure it'll be a similar situation in any colonised country. What's the bet native Britons were over-represented in the courts of the invading Romans. Surely then it makes sense that the effect of this compounds over the generations. It entrenches the cycle of poverty you have mentioned, and also creates the sort of stigma around genetic predisposition that you have invoked.

I believe that this is the cause of higher rates of incarceration for colonised peoples, not some mystical genetic propensity for 'crime'*.


* It also 'helps' when the invading force ciminalises native customs/traditions/behaviours - then they are all automatically criminals.

[RDJ]

fuckin dumb fuckin cunt. hope the prick gets shanked and we dont have to deal with this gang-bitch dumb-fuck piece of shit. :bash:

I don't think that will happen but it is one option for dealing with the lawyer. What do you propose should happen to the offender?

[Zedder]

This is very interesting, you state that the Maori female is incarcerated and the European female not. Both of whom had previous convictions and were given different sentences based on race.

Well I ask what previous convictions. To use this statement you must be aware of the number of previous convictions. Did both females have the same conviction history? How do you know, as a reporter I would be surprised if you were given a copy of previous convictions.

If I go against the norm and surmise that the European female had 10 previous convictions and the Maori female three previous and the outcome is as you put it then the sentencing is disproportionate to the offending and grounds for an appeal. Remember that was an example.

Then I move onto IF both females were the same in every respect, why wasnt a fine considered? Maybe both females had been given fines for their last offending, they both earn the same and have the same outgoings. The Maori female (for example) CHOOSES not to pay her fine but the European female CHOOSES to pay hers. If this example were true should they both be given the opportunity for a fine?

Also were the females also currently charged with other offences? It just intrigues me that you have chosen this example. The charge simpliciter carries a MAXIMUM of three months imprisonment.

If you want to throw accusations around I know of a Youth Court judge who is disproportionately softer to young Maori offenders. No I cant offer examples as my work life and my keyboard warrior life need to remain in two different plains.

As for who I think that the law favours, well I think its the peeps that are in court everyday (not the offenders) who win in the Justice system.

He's probably busy calming down at present and might get back to you later...

[Zedder]

Does it not make sense to you that when one group colonises another, the colonising force will put in place laws and structures which support their people? Take New Zealand out of the argument and I'm sure it'll be a similar situation in any colonised country. What's the bet native Britons were over-represented in the courts of the invading Romans. Surely then it makes sense that the effect of this compounds over the generations. It entrenches the cycle of poverty you have mentioned, and also creates the sort of stigma around genetic predisposition that you have invoked.

I believe that this is the cause of higher rates of incarceration for colonised peoples, not some mystical genetic propensity for 'crime'*.


* It also 'helps' when the invading force ciminalises native customs/traditions/behaviours - then they are all automatically criminals.

It's not like Maori are forced to accept the Pakeha ways though. They have full control on whether they accept and involve themselves in their traditional culture or whatever else is available.

[rustyrobot]

It's not like Maori are forced to accept the Pakeha ways though. They have full control on whether they accept and involve themselves in their traditional culture or whatever else is available.

Well that's not actually true now, and it certainly wasn't true immediately after initial colonisation. That is the myth of multi-culturalism. Yes, we are a country that has many cultures living within it, but our significant social structures (tax system, justice system, land ownership, schooling, etc.) are solidly mono-cultural and built on the British, Anglican, Capitalist model. I cannot fathom how multiple cultures with often conflicting systems could truly live together, bit I do know that pretending they can or do doesn't work.

[SMOKEU]

See .. there is no evidence of that - there is evidence of a disproportinate representation in prison populations .. that is not the same thing ...

Yes, that's it in a nutshell ...

With no other evidence you make the jump that Māori are more likely to be criminals .. I suggest that the studies show Māori are more likely to be imprisoned if they are caught ...

Go here ... http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/knowledge-skills/participation-tertiary-education.html

It's not hard to see that Māori have a higher participation rate in tertiary education are higher than Pākehā, except in the 20-24 years old age group ... and in the older age group the participation rate is even higher than Asians - traditionally a high user group of education .. and in three of the five groups Māori participation rates are above the national average

We are getting our people educated .. that is part of the long term solution - and we are currently getting a higher percentage of our people educated than of the Pākehā population ..

You're running on suppositions and myths that are easily dispelled.



And yet you refuse to accept factors which show the court system is biased against Māori and you have not looked at the participation in education stats?

If Maori people are more likely to be in education compared to non Maori, then I accept that fact and won't argue with it. I still don't believe the courts in NZ are racist enough to be several times more likely to sentence a Maori to a term of imprisonment compared to a non Maori, assuming all other facts remain equal in relation to criminal history, perceived level of remorse, victim impact statements and whatever goes into the sentencing considerations. If that's not the case, then we do have a very big issue of racism in NZ that is beyond the scope of my knowledge.

Why is it that Maori children are more likely to be abused than non Maori? " Māori children, especially those living in urban areas, were disproportionately represented in suspected and reported cases – nearly 12 per 1,000 Māori children aged below 16 compared with nearly 6 per 1,000 non-Māori" (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/child-abuse/page-1)

"Across the country, Maori children were abused at a rate far higher than expected, given their proportion in the population of children." (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8987072/Areas-with-the-highest-rates-of-child-abuse)

"Whanau Violence Statistics
Half of all children killed by caregivers are Maori.
Seven times more young Maori women and four times more Maori children are
hospitalised from an assault compared to Pakeha women and children.
49% of Maori women experienced partner abuse at some time in their life, compared
with 24% of Pakeha and 23% of Pacifica women." (http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.areyouok.org.nz%2Ffiles%2FUpd ated_Stats_Final.pdf&ei=BruOUp30LsWFiQf75oGoBA&usg=AFQjCNHp_B0MxGSxminz0r64qhLojPoYBg&bvm=bv.56988011,d.aGc&cad=rja)

"It was concluded that Maori, and in particular those of sole Maori cultural identity, were at higher risk of exposure to physical punishment and inter-parental violence, and that the associations could not be fully explained by either socio-economic deprivation or exposure to family dysfunction in childhood." (http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj36/36-ethnic-identity-and-exposure-to-maltreatment-in-childhood.html)


Does it not make sense to you that when one group colonises another, the colonising force will put in place laws and structures which support their people? Take New Zealand out of the argument and I'm sure it'll be a similar situation in any colonised country. What's the bet native Britons were over-represented in the courts of the invading Romans. Surely then it makes sense that the effect of this compounds over the generations. It entrenches the cycle of poverty you have mentioned, and also creates the sort of stigma around genetic predisposition that you have invoked.

I believe that this is the cause of higher rates of incarceration for colonised peoples, not some mystical genetic propensity for 'crime'*.

* It also 'helps' when the invading force ciminalises native customs/traditions/behaviours - then they are all automatically criminals.

So you'd rather have Maori running around killing and eating one another (https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=maori+cannabalism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&gfe_rd=ctrl&ei=Y7yOUr_gJcfC8geM14CoBw&gws_rd=cr#q=maori+cannibalism&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&spell=1) like they did before European colonization?

They're welcome to go and live in the bush away from modern society.


It's not like Maori are forced to accept the Pakeha ways though. They have full control on whether they accept and involve themselves in their traditional culture or whatever else is available.

Exactly.

[rustyrobot]

So you'd rather have Maori running around killing and eating one another like they did before European colonization?

They're welcome to go and live in the bush away from modern society.


I'm not sure how you inferred that from what I wrote.

Just out of interest though: what's the moral differentiation between killing someone with your hands and eating them in a cultural rite, and the sort of colonisation and mass murders carried out by the British Empire? How about the hundreds of millions killed during the slave trade? How about your heroes the Nazis and the way that they rounded up men, women, children and baked them in ovens. Is this the modern society you are talking about?

The point I was making in the quote you referred to is simply: those who make the rules, make them to suit themselves (and their children).

[SMOKEU]

I'm not sure how you inferred that from what I wrote.

Just out of interest though: what's the moral differentiation between killing someone with your hands and eating them in a cultural rite, and the sort of colonisation and mass murders carried out by the British Empire? How about the hundreds of millions killed during the slave trade? How about your heroes the Nazis and the way that they rounded up men, women, children and baked them in ovens. Is this the modern society you are talking about?

The point I was making in the quote you referred to is simply: those who make the rules, make them to suit themselves (and their children).

I'm against murder in general, and as a reasonably advanced society (in comparison to others, such as the ragheads), we have come up with better, peaceful solutions to out problems, negating the need for excessive violence. I am in no doubt that the European settlers did kill many "natives", both in NZ and other colonial empires, and I'm not condoning this behaviour. I don't think there was any race in history that doesn't have an incredibly brutal, bloody past.

What the Nazis did to the Jews wasn't really any different from what the Japanese and Russians did in WW2 to both their own people and their enemies. The African blacks were also exploited during the slave trade, and it's something that should never have happened. I hope that we have learned from this so such atrocities never happen again.

For any society to function in a relatively peaceful manner, we certainly need rules in place which everyone must abide by, unless you want to live in a total state of anarchy. Now these rules might not suit everyone, but without them we will be in a war zone, not too different from what is happening in parts of Africa and the Middle East at the moment.

[Akzle]

much the same as "women have smaller brains than men and therefore should not be involved in politics and should not vote - they should stay home and look after the kids "
≠
Just bullshit ..
:D

All other things remaining equal, this is proof that Maori are more genetically predisposed to crime than non Maori in NZ. If it's not genetic, then what is it, a mere coincidence?
come on... you're usually the first to bring out "correlation≠ causation"...


I don't believe the justice system in NZ is racist enough to treat Maori worse than other racial groups based purely on their race
how much involvement have you had with it? cos i've had a fair bit. it helps that i'm a light skinned ho, despite my 10 inch cock, but i've seen the workings of it...
tell me smokey, are you "allowed" to speak te reo in a crackeroo court?
does nz "law" line up with tikaanga? will a crackeroo court hear a case under any jurisdiction but crackeroo?


If the only difference between the races was skin colour and minor variations in body size and shape, and if people really are all the same regardless of race,
actually. you're melanin deficient.
sorry smokey, the test results are back.... it's vitaligo...turns out you're 80% coon.


then there wouldn't be any noticeable difference in the rate of criminal offending between the races since Maori have been living under "our" system for many generations and are well accustomed to living in "our" society with "our" rules.
there probably is no difference in rates of offending. that's not shown, what's shown is what's processed. which is, unquestionably, more maori than non-.


I was merely pointing out the fact that statistically, Maoris are imprisoned at an exponentially higher rate than non Maori per capita.
i dont think anyone's questioning that.


For example: I do not know why Jews all have big noses, but for me to decide that it must be because they have too much money, just isn't illogical.
it's to sniff out money...:innocent:

It's not like Maori are forced to accept the Pakeha ways though. They have full control on whether they accept and involve themselves in their traditional culture or whatever else is available.
yes. yes it is like that. that's what the blue gang are for. to ensure as far as possible that everyone is complying with crackeroo "law"


Well that's not actually true now, and it certainly wasn't true immediately after initial colonisation. That is the myth of multi-culturalism. Yes, we are a country that has many cultures living within it, but our significant social structures (tax system, justice system, land ownership, schooling, etc.) are solidly mono-cultural and built on the British, Anglican, Capitalist model. I cannot fathom how multiple cultures with often conflicting systems could truly live together, bit I do know that pretending they can or do doesn't work.
basically this^



Why is it that Maori children are more likely to be abused than non Maori? " Māori children, especially those living in urban areas, were disproportionately represented in suspected and reported cases – nearly 12 per 1,000 Māori children aged below 16 compared with nearly 6 per 1,000 non-Māori" (http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/child-abuse/page-1)


They're welcome to go and live in the bush away from modern society.


2) no, they're not. yes, it's possible, but someone always comes around looking for a slice of the pie.
the "crown" has "claimed" all "land" in "new zealand" (and all the animals, fish, resources, air and anything else that may turn a profit) and if you want to exist on it or use it, you gotta pay. with moeny. jew money.
you could bust out the "fly under the radar" which many people hope to, many people even achieve, but that's not free-ay-dom.

1) this "urban"" thing. doesn't quite line up with traditional values, certainly not traditional lifestyles. a fairly similar thing happened with the abos in oz. give them a white mans house, white mans car, all the modern trappings, but there's no community. the need for money drives people further away from the marae, and it ends up drifiting apart. the need for money has people working >40 hours a week (50% of that is for the government, to perpetuate the system, tptb thanks you) instead of a subsistence lifestyle, which is about 10 hours a week,(white science has confirmed this) and working close to home with close friends/family (and some people you dont like. like dicks).
so, yeah, nah.

[Zedder]

Well that's not actually true now, and it certainly wasn't true immediately after initial colonisation. That is the myth of multi-culturalism. Yes, we are a country that has many cultures living within it, but our significant social structures (tax system, justice system, land ownership, schooling, etc.) are solidly mono-cultural and built on the British, Anglican, Capitalist model. I cannot fathom how multiple cultures with often conflicting systems could truly live together, bit I do know that pretending they can or do doesn't work.

So, this isn't true then:http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/about/mpa/

Incidently, Britain didn't want to rule NZ. There was actually a treaty of Independance originally but 13 Maori chiefs begged the Queen for help and protection for their trading etc, hence the Treaty of Waitangi and drama ever since...

[Banditbandit]

This is very interesting, you state that the Maori female is incarcerated and the European female not. Both of whom had previous convictions and were given different sentences based on race.

Well I ask what previous convictions. To use this statement you must be aware of the number of previous convictions. Did both females have the same conviction history? How do you know, as a reporter I would be surprised if you were given a copy of previous convictions.

If I go against the norm and surmise that the European female had 10 previous convictions and the Maori female three previous and the outcome is as you put it then the sentencing is disproportionate to the offending and grounds for an appeal. Remember that was an example.

Then I move onto IF both females were the same in every respect, why wasnt a fine considered? Maybe both females had been given fines for their last offending, they both earn the same and have the same outgoings. The Maori female (for example) CHOOSES not to pay her fine but the European female CHOOSES to pay hers. If this example were true should they both be given the opportunity for a fine?

Also were the females also currently charged with other offences? It just intrigues me that you have chosen this example. The charge simpliciter carries a MAXIMUM of three months imprisonment.

If you want to throw accusations around I know of a Youth Court judge who is disproportionately softer to young Maori offenders. No I cant offer examples as my work life and my keyboard warrior life need to remain in two different plains.

As for who I think that the law favours, well I think its the peeps that are in court everyday (not the offenders) who win in the Justice system.

I am completely unsure .. I do know I was the court reporter and witnesses this happen first hand. It has also been commented on elsewhere, but I am unsure how to find that.

At the time, from what the judge said, both cases were pretty similar .. both had taken around $10-$11 from Countdown ... both had previous convictions ... both had children at home. At the time it seemed racist to me . and the comment elsewhere points this out too.

Look .. there are good judges and bad judges (and I don't mean good judges let people off - I mean good judges dispense justice as it should be .. and I've some bloody tough ones I though were great) .. the figures and studies suggest a racist system.

[SMOKEU]

:D

come on... you're usually the first to bring out "correlation≠ causation"...

how much involvement have you had with it? cos i've had a fair bit. it helps that i'm a light skinned ho, despite my 10 inch cock, but i've seen the workings of it...
tell me smokey, are you "allowed" to speak te reo in a crackeroo court?
does nz "law" line up with tikaanga? will a crackeroo court hear a case under any jurisdiction but crackeroo?

actually. you're melanin deficient.
sorry smokey, the test results are back.... it's vitaligo...turns out you're 80% coon.


there probably is no difference in rates of offending. that's not shown, what's shown is what's processed. which is, unquestionably, more maori than non-.


i dont think anyone's questioning that.

it's to sniff out money...:innocent:

yes. yes it is like that. that's what the blue gang are for. to ensure as far as possible that everyone is complying with crackeroo "law"


basically this^



2) no, they're not. yes, it's possible, but someone always comes around looking for a slice of the pie.
the "crown" has "claimed" all "land" in "new zealand" (and all the animals, fish, resources, air and anything else that may turn a profit) and if you want to exist on it or use it, you gotta pay. with moeny. jew money.
you could bust out the "fly under the radar" which many people hope to, many people even achieve, but that's not free-ay-dom.

1) this "urban"" thing. doesn't quite line up with traditional values, certainly not traditional lifestyles. a fairly similar thing happened with the abos in oz. give them a white mans house, white mans car, all the modern trappings, but there's no community. the need for money drives people further away from the marae, and it ends up drifiting apart. the need for money has people working >40 hours a week (50% of that is for the government, to perpetuate the system, tptb thanks you) instead of a subsistence lifestyle, which is about 10 hours a week,(white science has confirmed this) and working close to home with close friends/family (and some people you dont like. like dicks).
so, yeah, nah.

OK, I admit that I don't know much about the courts as I've never been a defendant before, and I hope to keep things that way and "below the radar" of the corrupt system that frequently makes criminals out of ordinary people, and criminals into "someone who isn't really accountable because they're a victim of their circumstances". From what I understand, Te Reo is accepted in some courts (maybe not enough courts?, but since Maori are generally more proficient at English than their own language, is this really a bad thing?).

There's more to different races than just skin colour alone. Animals (and humans) are known to develop physical changes to their body in response to environmental conditions over many generations. Ever noticed how black Africans are generally bigger than Asians, and how white people are generally about in the middle? Or how Inuits are generally quite short in order to preserve body heat more efficiently?

Maybe we do need separate courts to deal specifically with Maori vs. Maori disputes, provided both parties agree to this system prior to commencement of proceedings if it makes you lot feel any better. I agree that the white mans way of capitalism has serious flaws, and I can understand why it can have extremely negative effects on the Maori and general community. I also don't like the fact that I will have to live to work, not the other way around. It's the Jews.

[Banditbandit]

If Maori people are more likely to be in education compared to non Maori, then I accept that fact and won't argue with it. I still don't believe the courts in NZ are racist enough to be several times more likely to sentence a Maori to a term of imprisonment compared to a non Maori, assuming all other facts remain equal in relation to criminal history, perceived level of remorse, victim impact statements and whatever goes into the sentencing considerations. If that's not the case, then we do have a very big issue of racism in NZ that is beyond the scope of my knowledge.

Clearly - and thank you for that admission ... and yes, we do have a big problem ...


Why is it that Maori children are more likely to be abused than non Maori?

Even bigger answer ... and a major issue ...

Essentially and the short answer .. anger and frustration .. anger and frustration about the position of Māori in this country ... this is one of the long term and intergenerational effects of colonization .. it's the same in all colonized groups ...

And the (irrational) need to hit out at something ... so they hit out at the nearest thing ... (For a very full answer read Franz Fanon's Wretched of the Earth ...)

The same reason as pissed off blacks in America, angry and annoyed and just pissed off at the powers that be, burnt their own homes (Watts riots etc) instead of burning the homes of the white arseholes they were actually angry at.

Hit out in anger and frustration at anything near to them ...

[Banditbandit]

OK, I admit that I don't know much about the courts as I've never been a defendant before, and I hope to keep things that way and "below the radar" of the corrupt system that frequently makes criminals out of ordinary people, and criminals into "someone who isn't really accountable because they're a victim of their circumstances". From what I understand, Te Reo is accepted in some courts (maybe not enough courts?, but since Maori are generally more proficient at English than their own language, is this really a bad thing?).

There's more to different races than just skin colour alone. Animals (and humans) are known to develop physical changes to their body in response to environmental conditions over many generations. Ever noticed how black Africans are generally bigger than Asians, and how white people are generally about in the middle? Or how Inuits are generally quite short in order to preserve body heat more efficiently?

Maybe we do need separate courts to deal specifically with Maori vs. Maori disputes, provided both parties agree to this system prior to commencement of proceedings if it makes you lot feel any better. I agree that the white mans way of capitalism has serious flaws, and I can understand why it can have extremely negative effects on the Maori and general community. I also don't like the fact that I will have to live to work, not the other way around. It's the Jews.

Mate ... that's a massive shift from your attitudes this morning. Thank you. Keep moving .. we might make something out of you yet ..

Keep thinking about it and have a good weekend.

[Mo NZ]

I just skimmed back through some of the last pages.

Re more likely to reoffend or not abide by the bail conditions is optional - which will and should if breached result a remand in custody.

Some people don't get the message, ie;
- Don't bash up yr Mrs or other people, or children.
- Don't have sex with your children, or other peoples children.
- Don't leave your home and break into other peoples homes and steal shit.
- Don't pinch somebodies car/motorcycle etc.
- Don't smash up stuff that doesn't belong to you.
- Get your drivers licence if you want to drive.
- Don't drive like an idiot.
- Don't drive drunk of drugged.
- Don't do drugs.
- Don't go the bank with a shotgun to make a cash withdrawal.
- If you go shopping, remember to pay for the goods.
- Treat all you meet as you would like to be treated.
- Don't think the world owes you anything.

Remember at all times you hold your future in the palm of your hand.

I don't believe any of the above is unreasonable.

[Zedder]

Even bigger answer ... and a major issue ...

Essentially and the short answer .. anger and frustration .. anger and frustration about the position of Māori in this country ... this is one of the long term and intergenerational effects of colonization .. it's the same in all colonized groups ...

And the (irrational) need to hit out at something ... so they hit out at the nearest thing ... (For a very full answer read Franz Fanon's Wretched of the Earth ...)

The same reason as pissed off blacks in America, angry and annoyed and just pissed off at the powers that be, burnt their own homes (Watts riots etc) instead of burning the homes of the white arseholes they were actually angry at.

Hit out in anger and frustration at anything near to them ...

The Ministry of Justice strategic policy brief "Maori at risk of crime, some factors":
http://www.justice.govt.nz/justice-sector/drivers-of-crime/publications-and-background-information/documents/spb-maori-at-risk-some-factors

[mashman]

git fukkered. i've had two children. at least. and y'aint taking my balls!

In the event of a relationship breakdown, the father should get the kids.

[Akzle]

I just skimmed back through some of the last pages.

Re more likely to reoffend or not abide by the bail conditions is optional - which will and should if breached result a remand in custody.

Some people don't get the message, ie;
- Don't bash up yr Mrs or other people, or children.
- Don't have sex with your children, or other peoples children.
- Don't leave your home and break into other peoples homes and steal shit.
- Don't pinch somebodies car/motorcycle etc.
- Don't smash up stuff that doesn't belong to you.
- Get your drivers licence if you want to drive.
- Don't drive like an idiot.
- Don't drive drunk of drugged.
- Don't do drugs.
- Don't go the bank with a shotgun to make a cash withdrawal.
- If you go shopping, remember to pay for the goods.
- Treat all you meet as you would like to be treated.
- Don't think the world owes you anything.

Remember at all times you hold your future in the palm of your hand.

I don't believe any of the above is unreasonable.

now see, i do. Who the fuckk are you to tell me what i cant do if im not doing harm to any one else?

[Akzle]

In the event of a relationship breakdown, the father should get the kids.

that infringes a breeder's right to piss and moan at court.
But yea. Equality. and shit.

[Zedder]

now see, i do. Who the fuckk are you to tell me what i cant do if im not doing harm to any one else?

This isn't the drug testing thread!

[jahrasti]

I am completely unsure .. I do know I was the court reporter and witnesses this happen first hand. It has also been commented on elsewhere, but I am unsure how to find that.

At the time, from what the judge said, both cases were pretty similar .. both had taken around $10-$11 from Countdown ... both had previous convictions ... both had children at home. At the time it seemed racist to me . and the comment elsewhere points this out too.

Look .. there are good judges and bad judges (and I don't mean good judges let people off - I mean good judges dispense justice as it should be .. and I've some bloody tough ones I though were great) .. the figures and studies suggest a racist system.

Ok Ill take what you say at face value re previous convictions but that is such an unknown quantity. Was it one or 10 etc etc. I could argue semantics all day.

Got plenty more to say but alas the man is a calling and its time to make some coin. Hold that thought, just like Arnold "I'll be back".

[SMOKEU]

Mate ... that's a massive shift from your attitudes this morning. Thank you. Keep moving .. we might make something out of you yet ..

Keep thinking about it and have a good weekend.

Cheers. :drinkup:

Have a good weekend too.


now see, i do. Who the fuckk are you to tell me what i cant do if im not doing harm to any one else?

Exactly.

[Mo NZ]

now see, i do. Who the fuckk are you to tell me what i cant do if im not doing harm to any one else?

Looks like a good one - have fun.

[jonbuoy]

Mate ... that's a massive shift from your attitudes this morning. Thank you. Keep moving .. we might make something out of you yet ..

Keep thinking about it and have a good weekend.

Except for the fact that he blames the 6000 odd Jewish people in NZ for NZ's problems. Indigenous people always seem to struggle after colonisation, I suppose it's like an advanced alien race taking over management of the Earth and then after 200 years of rule wondering why humans are still over represented in prisons.

[Akzle]

Except for the fact that he blames the 6000 odd Jewish people in NZ for NZ's problems.

no. He's not that retarded. (i think) its only a handful of jews. The kind that have banks, courts, governments etc.

Jews are different from jewish people.

[Zedder]

Except for the fact that he blames the 6000 odd Jewish people in NZ for NZ's problems. Indigenous people always seem to struggle after colonisation, I suppose it's like an advanced alien race taking over management of the Earth and then after 200 years of rule wondering why humans are still over represented in prisons.

Except in New Zealand, Maori have received hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation plus land, forests, fisheries, dedicated support from several government departments etc.

[Akzle]

Except in New Zealand, Maori have received hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation plus land, forests, fisheries, dedicated support from several government departments etc.

ok. So. Ill take all your shit.
You can rent one of the rooms in my new house.
In 10 years ill give you one, and maybe a mattress. But youre not allowed to use the water or electricity in my new house unless you pay me. And. Just arbitrarily, you and your family cant use coffee or sugar, cos drugs are bad hmkay? And you have to walk slowly in my new house. And you must fill out lots of forms for all these priviledges.

[Zedder]

ok. So. Ill take all your shit.
You can rent one of the rooms in my new house.
In 10 years ill give you one, and maybe a mattress. But youre not allowed to use the water or electricity in my new house unless you pay me. And. Just arbitrarily, you and your family cant use coffee or sugar, cos drugs are bad hmkay? And you have to walk slowly in my new house. And you must fill out lots of forms for all these priviledges.

What did your cuzzies do with the previous owners?

[jonbuoy]

ok. So. Ill take all your shit.
You can rent one of the rooms in my new house.
In 10 years ill give you one, and maybe a mattress. But youre not allowed to use the water or electricity in my new house unless you pay me. And. Just arbitrarily, you and your family cant use coffee or sugar, cos drugs are bad hmkay? And you have to walk slowly in my new house. And you must fill out lots of forms for all these priviledges.

Is Cannabis indigenous to NZ? Given the chance - do Maori really want to go back to the old tribal existence?

[Akzle]

What did your cuzzies do with the previous owners?

you were the previous owner. But im claiming it in the name of my crown jewels. Now you have to live by my rules. Your old neighbour signed the contract.

[Akzle]

Is Cannabis indigenous to NZ? Given the chance - do Maori really want to go back to the old tribal existence?

no. Bought in late 1800s by nuns or apothocaries. Whitelawed ~ 30s when the jew S of A were putting the smackdown on jazz niggers.

I for one want an existence sans-central government, sans politzei, sans money.
Tribal? Maybe.
Community, or a society proper, mos def.

[Zedder]

you were the previous owner. But im claiming it in the name of my crown jewels. Now you have to live by my rules. Your old neighbour signed the contract.

Oh, I get ya. I thought you were referring to the rampant inter-tribal warfare, slavery, killing, cannibalism, plus land and resource takeovers that were happening prior to the evil colonists arriving.

[Akzle]

Oh, I get ya. I thought you were referring to the rampant inter-tribal warfare, slavery, killing, cannibalism, plus land and resource takeovers that were happening prior to the evil colonists arriving.

yea, you evil colonists did that for a good while after y' got here, too.

S'aiight. The jews slaved y'all now.

[Zedder]

yea, you evil colonists did that for a good while after y' got here, too.

S'aiight. The jews slaved y'all now.

Keep taking those tablets you were prescribed...

[mashman]

that infringes a breeder's right to piss and moan at court.
But yea. Equality. and shit.

Life's a bitch eh.

[jonbuoy]

no. Bought in late 1800s by nuns or apothocaries. Whitelawed ~ 30s when the jew S of A were putting the smackdown on jazz niggers.

I for one want an existence sans-central government, sans politzei, sans money.
Tribal? Maybe.
Community, or a society proper, mos def.

So a bit like Somalia, Burundi and the Congo?

[SMOKEU]

So a bit like Somalia, Burundi and the Congo?

I'd hope not, those snackbarists from al Shabaab will cut your hand(s) off, and head.

[avgas]

you were the previous owner. But im claiming it in the name of my crown jewels. Now you have to live by my rules. Your old neighbour signed the contract.
Claiming what?
You have no identity - thus are not an entity. Therefore cannot claim.

I no longer validate you as existing and in the words of a famous film....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/emebPH6ysRU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

....kinda annoying when people practice what you preach ain't it.

[avgas]

10% less jail?

Seems even on 1 proviso - 10% less convicted.

Perhaps do a double or nothing trial. If they reduce sentences on Maori and evaluate over a year. If the rate of convictions drops by 10% then they keep it as the new standard. If its 0-10% change. They evaluate for another year.
If there is an increase of crime they add 20% to all sentences the following year and see what happens.

Seem fair? Effectively carrot & stick approach.

Or 10% less sentences and bring back the death penalty for multiple-repeat, horrific, offenders (black, white, purple....who cares).

Or 10% less on all sentences, but 10% less perks in prison. Swap TV's for books. Remove dessert.

[Akzle]

Claiming what?
You have no identity - thus are not an entity. Therefore cannot claim.

I no longer validate you as existing and in the words of a famous film....


....kinda annoying when people practice what you preach ain't it.

no, i wish more people would, then something might change.

But in the scenario id hire a gang of ninja midgets, get them to patrol the house in uniform and tell them to thump you and take your tiddlywinks if you breach my law.

[jahrasti]

ok. So. Ill take all your shit.
You can rent one of the rooms in my new house.
In 10 years ill give you one, and maybe a mattress. But youre not allowed to use the water or electricity in my new house unless you pay me. And. Just arbitrarily, you and your family cant use coffee or sugar, cos drugs are bad hmkay? And you have to walk slowly in my new house. And you must fill out lots of forms for all these priviledges.

So what are you basically asking? Are suggesting that the Maori (indigenous) peoples of this country be given a free rein to act as they please irrespective of any other race? To ignore a system which may not be perfect but is used is the vast majority of this world.

You use the above as an analogy so please be specific in how you think the governance of Maori and New Zealand should be run.

[mashman]

:corn: ..........

[Akzle]

So what are you basically asking? Are suggesting that the Maori (indigenous) peoples of this country be given a free rein to act as they please irrespective of any other race? To ignore a system which may not be perfect but is used is the vast majority of this world.

You use the above as an analogy so please be specific in how you think the governance of Maori and New Zealand should be run.

lets play a game. Its called 'spot the question mark'

...no? Me neither. I wasnt asking anything.

Im not sure youve grasped the analogy.
Im also not sure you comprehend the term 'vast majority' or youre using a different yard stick. Like a cracker ass white is right, yard stick.
I think youll find the 'vast majority' dont own a pc. Many dont have electricity, but im guessing you werent thinking about them.

Want to know how i think it should be done? Vote akzle.

[SMOKEU]

Want to know how i think it should be done? Vote akzle.

I certainly will!

Someone has to end the jewspiracy to fuck us all over.

PS. We should form our own political party.

[Akzle]

PS. We should form our own political party.

not quite how i work.
you'd be voting for a dictatorship

although if you do want to form a party, you'd have to be onside with mashy and ocean, apparently.

[SMOKEU]

not quite how i work.
you'd be voting for a dictatorship

although if you do want to form a party, you'd have to be onside with mashy and ocean, apparently.

I wouldn't quite be going for a dictatorship.

So how do you roll then?

[Akzle]

So how do you roll then?

benevolent dictatorship.
Derpderpala!

[SMOKEU]

benevolent dictatorship.
Derpderpala!

Interesting....

[jahrasti]

lets play a game. Its called 'spot the question mark'

...no? Me neither. I wasnt asking anything.

Im not sure youve grasped the analogy.
Im also not sure you comprehend the term 'vast majority' or youre using a different yard stick. Like a cracker ass white is right, yard stick.
I think youll find the 'vast majority' dont own a pc. Many dont have electricity, but im guessing you werent thinking about them.

Want to know how i think it should be done? Vote akzle.

Wow good response. Have you ever twisted your ankle getting off your high horse? (yes another question mark!!!!)

So from two posts you believe that I am a white racist with no understanding of kaupapa.

Kia pai tou mutunga wiki :cool:.

[Akzle]

Wow good response. Have you ever twisted your ankle getting off your high horse? (yes another question mark!!!!)

So from two posts you believe that I am a white racist with no understanding of kaupapa.

Kia pai tou mutunga wiki :cool:.

and the award for continually misinterpreting shit goes to *drumroll*...

you.

no i've never twisted my ankle, because i'm usually on my high horse, but it's getting to be an expensive hobby. do you know how much a horse has to smoke to get high??

just to clarify your position, point to:
a) where i said you were white
b) where i said you were racist
c) where i said you had no underestanding of kaupapa
and answer:
d) where the question i was "basically asking" was
e) where i suggested indigenous peoples should be given free reign
f) your interpretation of how my analogy relates to the governance of new zealand or maori.

if you're going to wade into some some good natured banter, dont put words in my mouth you fucking cunt.

[RDJ]

benevolent dictatorship. Derpderpala!

Yeah, that's what all the beginning dictators say. By the end the Presidents for Life are feeding opponents into the woodchipper head first if they are lucky and feet first if they are not.

[avgas]

Yeah, that's what all the beginning dictators say. By the end the Presidents for Life are feeding opponents into the woodchipper head first if they are lucky and feet first if they are not.
And then they call it democracy and they all form parties so you have to vote for one of them or their buddies.....and if you don't like the team your in you can change or create a new team.

I vote for a death race. Winner can rule us....or pretend to. I don't care who wins. But atleast we will have a new batch every 4 years.

[Zedder]

not quite how i work.
you'd be voting for a dictatorship

although if you do want to form a party, you'd have to be onside with mashy and ocean, apparently.

Voting for a dictatorship?!? I think we're safe from you then...

[Akzle]

Yeah, that's what all the beginning dictators say. By the end the Presidents for Life are feeding opponents into the woodchipper head first if they are lucky and feet first if they are not.

some examples, please? or you expect me to just believe you?

how's banana rammer btw? and the fijiian economoney?

my woodchipper will be reserved for lawyers, politicians and judges. maybe a cop or thousand.

[RDJ]

some examples, please? or you expect me to just believe you?


Akzle, goodness no, I don't expect anything from you.

[Banditbandit]

To ignore a system which may not be perfect but is used is the vast majority of this world.

Huh ? Can you please tell me what system you are refering to?


You use the above as an analogy so please be specific in how you think the governance of Maori and New Zealand should be run.

Akzle may have some idea ... I don't ... democracy is OK .. but it's an import and a flawed system ... where did we sign the Treaty of Waitangi to say that we will have a democracy ?? ... 's not in the treaty at all ... our tipuna signed up for our soveriegnty ...

[Bald Eagle]

If memory serves we have two versions the treaty , one in English and one in maori. They are different. I cant see it ever resolving. Chuck them both out and start again.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[rustyrobot]

Huh ?/ Can you please tell me what system you are refering to?

I'm pretty sure he's referring to Oligarchy, although I'm never sure if it's that or simply Plutocracy that's the dominant political system in the west.

[Banditbandit]

If memory serves we have two versions the treaty , one in English and one in maori. They are different. I cant see it ever resolving. Chuck them both out and start again.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

Yes - you are corerect

The Court of Appeals has ruiled that the version written in te reo Māōri is the legitimaet one ..

The five judges who decided the case said:

A treaty is a binding agreement between two peoples.
To be binding bioth sides have to understand what they agree to. (basic principle of contract laws)
The Pākehā understood both the Māori and English versions (they wrote it)
Māori only understood the reo Māori version
So the treaty is the reo Māori version.

And also ... the signatures are on the Māori version .. not the English version

The Māori version grants us tino rangatiratanga ... your Government has no legitimacy ...

[Banditbandit]

:killingme :clap: :rofl: :killingme :clap: :rofl: :killingme :clap: :rofl:



Oh, I get ya. I thought you were referring to the rampant inter-tribal warfare,


European wars ... in fact WWI was not just inter-tribal - it was intra-family .. a war fought amongst the ruling elite family of Europe using the working classes and colonials as cannon fodder ... or the earlier Napoleonic Wars .... or .. (and onwards)


slavery,

Abolished in Britain in 1807, after Arrival in Aotearoa/New Zealand - the so called "civilized world" had slaves up to around the same time as it was abolised here .. no moral high ground there for you ...



killing,

Everyone does that - still do ... mo moral high ground there ...


cannibalism,

Indulged in by the "Christian" crusaders when fighting the Muslims in the Holy Land ... none there either


plus land and resource takeovers that were happening prior to the evil colonists arriving.

:killingme How much land and how many resources did the British Empire take? Or the rest of the world ???

In 1800 Europe controlled around 30% of the land area of the world .. at the bringing of WWI Europe cotrolled 80% of the land area of the globe .. Our tipuna could never compete with that ... certainly no moral high ground there for Europe and its descendents ...

I'm not saying that Māori are or were perfect ... there is no moral high ground for any group or culture - we all have a bloody and nasty past .. so don't pull that bullshit ...

There are only personal ethics ... how do your stack up ???

[Zedder]

Yes - you are corerect

The Court of Appeals has ruiled that the version written in te reo Māōri is the legitimaet one ..

The five judges who decided the case said:

A treaty is a binding agreement between two peoples.
To be binding bioth sides have to understand what they agree to. (basic principle of contract laws)
The Pākehā understood both the Māori and English versions (they wrote it)
Māori only understood the reo Māori version
So the treaty is the reo Māori version.

And also ... the signatures are on the Māori version .. not the English version

The Māori version grants us tino rangatiratanga ... your Government has no legitimacy ...

A page from the Waitangi Tribunal: http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/treaty/meaning.asp

[Zedder]

:killingme :clap: :rofl: :killingme :clap: :rofl: :killingme :clap: :rofl:





European wars ... in fact WWI was not just inter-tribal - it was intra-family .. a war fought amongst the ruling elite family of Europe using the working classes and colonials as cannon fodder ... or the earlier Napoleonic Wars .... or .. (and onwards)



Abolished in Britain in 1807, after Arrival in Aotearoa/New Zealand - the so called "civilized world" had slaves up to around the same time as it was abolised here .. no moral high ground there for you ...




Everyone does that - still do ... mo moral high ground there ...



Indulged in by the "Christian" crusaders when fighting the Muslims in the Holy Land ... none there either



:killingme How much land and how many resources did the British Empire take? Or the rest of the world ???

In 1800 Europe controlled around 30% of the land area of the world .. at the bringing of WWI Europe cotrolled 80% of the land area of the globe .. Our tipuna could never compete with that ... certainly no moral high ground there for Europe and its descendents ...

I'm not saying that Māori are or were perfect ... there is no moral high ground for any group or culture - we all have a bloody and nasty past .. so don't pull that bullshit ...

There are only personal ethics ... how do your stack up ???

I'm was just balancing out the situation by stating how things were prior to the NZ declaration of Independence and Treaty of Waitangi. The fact is, NZ was a mess, Britain tried to "tidy things up" and even then Maori were quick to jump up and cry for help when things got too messy for them to handle despite being told Britiain didn't want to rule them. Facts banditbandit, not value judgements like you've posted.

[Banditbandit]

A page from the Waitangi Tribunal: http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/treaty/meaning.asp

Eggs and grandmothers comes to mind ...

From A GUIDE TO THE PRINCIPLES OF THE TREATY OF WAITANGI AS EXPRESSED BY THE COURTS & THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL


"It may be regarded as an extension of the contra proferentem rule that in the event of ambiguity a provision should be construed against the party which drafted or proposed, that provision. Relevant in this context is the predominantm role the Mäori text played in securing the signature of the various chiefs"

It was this rule of contra proferentem that the appeals court refered to in its 1987 judgement in the case of the Māori Counmcil vs The Crown over the proposed State Owned Enterprise act ... it is that rule that says both parties need to understand any agreement ..

[Banditbandit]

I'm was just balancing out the situation by stating how things were prior to the NZ declaration of Independence and Treaty of Waitangi.

Yeah yeah .. "Balancing" .. yeah yeah ... a good liberal excuse ...


The fact is, NZ was a mess, Britain tried to "tidy things up"

Who decided it "was a mess" ??? Our tipuna certainly did not ... and how was it more of a mess than Europe, the Northern Hemispshpere .. the cycle of wars there .. with America .. across Europe .. Crimea .. Napoleonic Wars ... people being people ... no more or no less ..

"mess" is a value judgement ...


and even then Maori were quick to jump up and cry for help when things got too messy for them to handle

Which ones? Name them ... our tipuna asked Britain to sort out it's people here .. the sealers and whalers and others causing major problems .. rape murder mayhem ... breaking tribal laws ...


despite being told Britiain didn't want to rule them.

That does happen to be true - also the Colonial office ordered Hobson NOT to sign a treaty .. but hey ... Britian is a long way away so guess what Hobsonm actually did ???


Facts banditbandit, not value judgements like you've posted.

Value judgements? Britain certainly abolished slavery in 1807, after arrival here ... there certainly was cannibalism amongst the crusaders ... etc etc. Where are the value judgements ??

let's start with Britain abolishing slavery in in 1807 ... tell me where that value judgement is ..

[Zedder]

Eggs and grandmothers comes to mind ...

From A GUIDE TO THE PRINCIPLES OF THE TREATY OF WAITANGI AS EXPRESSED BY THE COURTS & THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL


"It may be regarded as an extension of the contra proferentem rule that in the event of ambiguity a provision should be construed against the party which drafted or proposed, that provision. Relevant in this context is the predominantm role the Mäori text played in securing the signature of the various chiefs"

It was this rule of contra proferentem that the appeals court refered to in its 1987 judgement in the case of the Māori Counmcil vs The Crown over the proposed State Owned Enterprise act ... it is that rule that says both parties need to understand any agreement ..

Oh, that's right you used to teach about "The Treaty" and all its ins and outs apparently. Interestingly though, you didn't know about the Declaration of Independence, which is equally important in New Zealand and The Treaty's history, until I wrote about it a while ago. Selective memory is handy I suppose.

Anyway, I'm off for a motorbike ride in our beautiful country. Kia Kaha.

[Zedder]

Yeah yeah .. "Balancing" .. yeah yeah ... a good liberal excuse ...



Who decided it "was a mess" ??? Our tipuna certainly did not ... and how was it more of a mess than Europe, the Northern Hemispshpere .. the cycle of wars there .. with America .. across Europe .. Crimea .. Napoleonic Wars ... people being people ... no more or no less ..

"mess" is a value judgement ...



Which ones? Name them ... our tipuna asked Britain to sort out it's people here .. the sealers and whalers and others causing major problems .. rape murder mayhem ... breaking tribal laws ...



That does happen to be true - also the Colonial office ordered Hobson NOT to sign a treaty .. but hey ... Britian is a long way away so guess what Hobsonm actually did ???



Value judgements? Britain certainly abolished slavery in 1807, after arrival here ... there certainly was cannibalism amongst the crusaders ... etc etc. Where are the value judgements ??

let's start with Britain abolishing slavery in in 1807 ... tell me where that value judgement is ..

You were citing my morals and ethics which have nothing to do with the situation.

[Banditbandit]

Oh, that's right you used to teach about "The Treaty" and all its ins and outs apparently.

Far out .. you remembered ..


Interestingly though, you didn't know about the Declaration of Independence, which is equally important in New Zealand and The Treaty's history, until I wrote about it a while ago. Selective memory is handy I suppose.

Huh !!! ... I've known about the declaration longer than I've been a member of KB ... where did you get that idea from ??? You can't read and understand the treaty properly withot reading the declaration ..


Anyway, I'm off for a motorbike ride in our beautiful country. Kia Kaha.

have fun ... lucky bugger ...


You were citing my morals and ethics which have nothing to do with the situation.

Not quite .. I was suggesting that the examples you cited gave no group of people the moral high ground over any other .. and that there was no such thing as a moal high ground for any group ...

Then I suggested that there were only personal ethics and asked you about yours ... that was not a value judgement - that was a genuine question ...

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that that has no relevence .. how we treat each other is the core of this discussion ... and how we treat each other is totally an ethical decision ...

[Zedder]

Far out .. you remembered ..



Huh !!! ... I've known about the declaration longer than I've been a member of KB ... where did you get that idea from ??? You can't read and understand the treaty properly withot reading the declaration ..



have fun ... lucky bugger ...



Not quite .. I was suggesting that the examples you cited gave no group of people the moral high ground over any other .. and that there was no such thing as a moal high ground for any group ...

Then I suggested that there were only personal ethics and asked you about yours ... that was not a value judgement - that was a genuine question ...

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that that has no relevence .. how we treat each other is the core of this discussion ... and how we treat each other is totally an ethical decision ...

Nice try, however you didn't know about the Declaration of Independence back then because you wrote words to the effect that it had been a while since you taught on the Treaty of Waitangi.

Since I'm in a good mood after my ride, I won't take you to task on that or the value judgment issue but here's a bit of info, in case you missed it, about what Maori have as resources for their betterment. Note the amount of funding etc available to them: http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/about/mpa/

[rustyrobot]

Nice try, however you didn't know about the Declaration of Independence back then because you wrote words to the effect that it had been a while since you taught on the Treaty of Waitangi.


Pssst... You are referring to this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130490387#post1130490387), but BanditBandit had actually mentioned the Declaration two pages and 30 something posts earlier here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130489893#post1130489893). Just following your suggestion and doing some research :P

Saddle might be a bit loose on your high horse.

[Zedder]

Pssst... You are referring to this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130490387#post1130490387), but BanditBandit had actually mentioned the Declaration two pages and 30 something posts earlier here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130489893#post1130489893). Just following your suggestion and doing some research :P

Saddle might be a bit loose on your high horse.

Psst...have a look at my post number 99 in that thread where I introduce the subject of the Declaration of Independence.

Feeling bitter from me correcting you earlier much?

[avgas]

Why don't we just lock up the criminals. Why can't you lot stop being racists? It only takes a bigot to lock someone up - not a racist.

[rustyrobot]

Psst...have a look at my post number 99 in that thread where I introduce the subject of the Declaration of Independence.

Wait - 99 is before 96 now?


Feeling bitter from me correcting you earlier much?

Nah, I was just surprised because I can't imagine anyone tutoring the Treaty without knowing about the Declaration. Besides, you didn't correct me - you just offered an opinion.

Putting aside your speculation on the motives of 'the crown', they essentially signed a contract and then totally ignored it and broke the terms for the next 130 years or so. The 'principles' that you linked to on the TPK page are an attempt to redress that injustice.

[Bald Eagle]

What injustice, when a land is colonised its game over. Why should they get a prize for being second.

Sent from my LG-P768 using Tapatalk

[rustyrobot]

What injustice,

That would be - signing a contract and then shitting all over it. Even by the English language version of the contract it was broken pretty much from day 1.

Not that it's any surprise that those in government don't live by their own rules, but level of hypocrisy is pretty astounding.


when a land is colonised its game over.

Said every coloniser ever.

[Zedder]

Wait - 99 is before 96 now?



Nah, I was just surprised because I can't imagine anyone tutoring the Treaty without knowing about the Declaration. Besides, you didn't correct me - you just offered an opinion.

Putting aside your speculation on the motives of 'the crown', they essentially signed a contract and then totally ignored it and broke the terms for the next 130 years or so. The 'principles' that you linked to on the TPK page are an attempt to redress that injustice.

As per my post 99, I was writing that Maori instigated the whole thing. His earlier post 96 didn't address that.

The TPK is about sorting things out just as the Waitangi Tribunal is. It could just as easily have been a case of "Like it or lump it" as happens in many other countries.

[Banditbandit]

Pssst... You are referring to this post (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130490387#post1130490387), but BanditBandit had actually mentioned the Declaration two pages and 30 something posts earlier here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/156194-Why-work-A-couple-from-the-UK-asks?p=1130489893#post1130489893). Just following your suggestion and doing some research :P

Saddle might be a bit loose on your high horse.

Thanks .. I knew it was there somewhere .. just not high enough on my radar to go adn look ..

[Zedder]

Thanks .. I knew it was there somewhere .. just not high enough on my radar to go adn look ..

Interesting, not much about moving ahead from you and the 'bot but quite a lot of blaming.

[Gremlin]

What injustice, when a land is colonised its game over. Why should they get a prize for being second.
Because unlike a lot of other wars, there wasn't a winner. Winners get to make rules, losers get to live by them. Unfortunately, the sides in this case decided to come to an agreement (except they had different agreements in mind).

And this is why we sit some 150 years later still unable to fucken move on, get over it and be productive.

[Akzle]

And this is why we sit some 150 years later still unable to fucken move on, get over it and be productive.

the system does not facilitate that shit. The system perpetuates the system for its own benefit and the benefit of any jews who love the system.
And you likely spend >45% of your life paying to support that system

[RDJ]

…...we sit some 150 years later still unable to fucken move on, get over it and be productive.

Actually not all of us belong to the Perpetual Grievance Industry. Many of us focus on being productive instead and paying our own way and not expecting handouts on the basis of what a bunch of long-dead people did or didn't do, say, write, sign, believe, posture, extort or grant.

[Banditbandit]

Interesting, not much about moving ahead from you and the 'bot but quite a lot of blaming.

Huh ?? Where .. ??? Show me ???

[Banditbandit]

And this is why we sit some 150 years later still unable to fucken move on, get over it and be productive.

let me see now

Māori economy worth $36Bilion dollars annually ...

Higher percentage of Māori in tertiary education than Pākehā ...

Māori highest percentage of entrepreneurs of any group in the WORLD ...

Plus a few more ,, but that will do for now ...


The "stuck 150 years ago" mindset is not ours ...

[bogan]

let me see now

Māori economy worth $36Bilion dollars annually ...

Higher percentage of Māori in tertiary education than Pākehā ...

Māori highest percentage of entrepreneurs of any group in the WORLD ...

Plus a few more ,, but that will do for now ...


The "stuck 150 years ago" mindset is not ours ...

Think the out-of-mindset may apply though, or some statistical massaging.

Oh, and toilet brewed alcohol in prison doesn't count as entrepreneurial :chase:

[Zedder]

Huh ?? Where .. ??? Show me ???

Your post number 74. No reply to my request for supporting data about your statement in it regarding "He represents a significant body of opinion..."

Your post 76: Not validated by info when challenged by jahrasti. It sounded more like John Key, "Unsure, unsure..."

Your post 105: Vitriolic, "anger and frustation about the position of Maori in this country" etc and still blaming colonisation.

[Banditbandit]

Your post number 74. No reply to my request for supporting data about your statement in it regarding "He represents a significant body of opinion..."

Your post 76: Not validated by info when challenged by jahrasti. It sounded more like John Key, "Unsure, unsure..."

Your post 105: Vitriolic, "anger and frustation about the position of Maori in this country" etc and still blaming colonisation.

Thanks. Let me go back and look at all that and get back to you.

[Banditbandit]

Your post 76: Not validated by info when challenged by jahrasti. It sounded more like John Key, "Unsure, unsure..."



Let me deal with this one - it's quick and easy. I was in court, as I said ... I have a clear memory of the sentences, and I thoyught at the time it was racist ... I can't back that up from memory - but I do know that it was commented on elsewhere ...

Yes, I'm unsure .. I don;t think there is anythign wrong with being unsure .. and I am not sure I want to devote the time and energy to back up what I said here.

Buit I fail to see how pointing to an event that happened in the recent past (i.e. my lifetime) means that I am "stuck in the past" - that challenge is usually leveled at people stuck inthe 19th century. In this context I refute the challenge. It is about dealing with issues that occur in today's world.

[Zedder]

Let me deal with this one - it's quick and easy. I was in court, as I said ... I have a clear memory of the sentences, and I thoyught at the time it was racist ... I can't back that up from memory - but I do know that it was commented on elsewhere ...

Yes, I'm unsure .. I don;t think there is anythign wrong with being unsure .. and I am not sure I want to devote the time and energy to back up what I said here.

Buit I fail to see how pointing to an event that happened in the recent past (i.e. my lifetime) means that I am "stuck in the past" - that challenge is usually leveled at people stuck inthe 19th century. In this context I refute the challenge. It is about dealing with issues that occur in today's world.

It comes across as stuck in the past Bb. You don't see me going on about my ancestor killed in the Battle of Gate Pa for example but perhaps I should.

There's a process and resources in place to enable people to move ahead.

[oldrider]

the system does not facilitate that shit. The system perpetuates the system for its own benefit and the benefit of any jews who love the system.
And you likely spend >45% of your life paying to support that system

At a guess Jews make up less than 1% of the world population, funny thing is that they always seem to be involved in about 99% of world problems!

Or is that simply because they are so prominent in things like media, music, theatre, movies, politics, law, weapons, banking, medicine, education, ETC ETC ETC!

Maybe it's just my imagination but sometimes it seems that Akzle does have a point! :rolleyes:

[Zedder]

At a guess Jews make up less than 1% of the world population, funny thing is that they always seem to be involved in about 99% of world problems!

Or is that simply because they are so prominent in things like media, music, theatre, movies, politics, law, weapons, banking, medicine, education, ETC ETC ETC!

Maybe it's just my imagination but sometimes it seems that Akzle does have a point! :rolleyes:

Try 0.2%. IMHO, the anti-Jewish sentiment probably boils down to the very human feelings of fear and jealousy with a bit of religious competition thrown in.

Other races feature prominantly in all the facets you wrote of, for example Chinese and Indian, but there's a lot less Jews doing very well so that's a "problem" to some in itself.

[Akzle]

Try 0.2%. IMHO, the anti-Jewish sentiment probably boils down to the very human feelings of fear and jealousy with a bit of religious competition thrown in.


ah. I see some kindly mod moved the explanation to pd. More lulz i guess.

There is a difference between jewish people, and jews.
If you act like a jew, regardless of which god you suck off, youre a jew.
Its a noundjective.

[Zedder]

ah. I see some kindly mod moved the explanation to pd. More lulz i guess.

There is a difference between jewish people, and jews.
If you act like a jew, regardless of which god you suck off, youre a jew.
Its a noundjective.

Not the way you describe it.

[Akzle]

Not the way you describe it.

that is the way i describe it.

Just did.

Right there.



One post before yours.

[Zedder]

that is the way i describe it.

Just did.

Right there.



One post before yours.

Nah, all you did was name two nouns. Even at the wildest stretch of the imagination (let's call it Akzlese) it's not even slightly becoming an adjective.

[mashman]

Nah, all you did was name two nouns. Even at the wildest stretch of the imagination (let's call it Akzlese) it's not even slightly becoming an adjective.

Yes it is.

[Akzle]

Nah, all you did was name two nouns. Even at the wildest stretch of the imagination (let's call it Akzlese) it's not even slightly becoming an adjective.

not the brightest crayon in the dishwasher are ya?

I never said it was an adjective.
If i call you A JEW its because you exhibit jew traits, like fucking people over to get money.
Like if i call you A FAG, im not actually implying you are a bundle of sticks, nor a hommo sexcual, just that youre exhibiting fag traits.

[Zedder]

not the brightest crayon in the dishwasher are ya?

I never said it was an adjective.
If i call you A JEW its because you exhibit jew traits, like fucking people over to get money.
Like if i call you A FAG, im not actually implying you are a bundle of sticks, nor a hommo sexcual, just that youre exhibiting fag traits.

Firstly, you wrote it was a nounadjective. Secondly, both examples are naming ie: nouns.

[Akzle]

Firstly, you wrote it was a nounadjective. Secondly, both examples are naming ie: nouns.

youre adding vowels.
And being obtuse.

[Zedder]

youre adding vowels.
And being obtuse.

You left out a capital and an apostrophe.

Maybe, it's because I would actually say "Don't act like a Jew or "You're acting like a Jew" that makes the difference.

[Akzle]

You left out a capital and an apostrophe.

but not a vowel.


Its ok. Grammer Not required in akzlese.

[Brian d marge]

A better practice would be to charge the crims for their prison stays like in 18th century Britain.

This would help balance the books a bit and save the tax payers plenty. Presumably a 10% discount could be arranged for repeat offenders...

We are　first we have to privatize the prisions then we the tax payers pay for the people in the prisions then the profits go to the company running the scheme
The more in jail the more profit

Nail em up i say especially if i have shares in the prision scam

Nail em up

Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Gremlin]

The "stuck 150 years ago" mindset is not ours ...
Who's "ours"

Of course, if neither side thinks it's their fault, it's never going to be fixed either. There are enablers on both sides and it takes two to tango. Sure, plenty of success like you list (which is good) and the big tribes are run like businesses, with investment advice, their positions etc.

There are still elements running around seeking compensation... uh, they weren't alive right back (unless they're referring to events earlier in the 20th century). Either way, I don't really care. The government, or general populace of the country shouldn't be enabling the claims either. Now, the way the Australians treat the Aborigines is hardly a good model to emulate, but there needs to be a balance.

Both sides should be finalising claims and being done with it.

[oldrider]

not the brightest crayon in the dishwasher are ya?

I never said it was an adjective.
If i call you A JEW its because you exhibit jew traits, like fucking people over to get money.
Like if i call you A FAG, im not actually implying you are a bundle of sticks, nor a hommo sexcual, just that youre exhibiting fag traits.

Akzle ... maybe some of the information on this site could be of intrest to you?: http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=534

[Akzle]

Akzle ... maybe some of the information on this site could be of intrest to you?: http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=534

http://www.trueorthodox.com/pictures/bnrzn3.jpg
sure, why wouldnt you trust this guy?

[Banditbandit]

Your post 105: Vitriolic, "anger and frustation about the position of Maori in this country" etc and still blaming colonisation.

OK .. this is a relativerly easy one to deal with too ...

Here I was answering Smoke's question about why there is a high rate of doemtstic violnce. I was attempting, in a very short answer, to get axcross the kind of mindset that some peoppel have - and that leads them to domestic violence.

I would stress that I was not pushing my own mindset. I work in educastion to try to change that mindset and get people moving forwards ...


However - from the other culture here - "those who do not know their history are bodn to repeat it". We rememebr our history - because it informs the present. It makes us who we are today.

The dominant culture has a different view of time and narrative from Māori culture. All our words for the past sound like the future

Mai rāno = the days come again ...
Nga ra o mua - The days in front ...

As we try to frame these concepts in English we get accussed of staying in the past - well yes, our past is us, it is all around us, it is our future as well. THis does not mean that we are stuck in the old ways - of course we move forwards. Te Ao hurihuri ...

Māori had the highest rate of literacy acquisistion in the world ... so much for today's poor educational achievement ...

In 1860 there were something like 60 Māori-owned trading ships working out of New Zealand ... the Waikato was farmed by Māori owners and the goods shipped to Auckland on Maori-owned river barges and sold in Auckland or shipped across the Tasman on Maori-owned ships to be sold in Ozz .. My own tipuna grow wheat, milled it in their own mills, sold the flour to the Pākehā - along with fruit from Māori-owned orchards, loads of firewood gathered from the ngahere ...

Our tipuna jumped into the new capitalist world with both feet ...

Which past do you think we want to return to? The tribal society of pre-contact or the healthy capitalist world of the 1800s?

Did you know that Māori are the single biggest shareholder group in Fonterra? New ZEaland's largest company and Māori are the single biggest shareholder group ... And they didn't get those shares through a treaty claim ... and there are plenty of other business examples ...

Second, the chance to delevop in the modern world was taken from us by the colonization of the 1800 and 1900s .. a huge loss of land meant a huge loss of economic power. At the time, western writers were saying that Colonization was unethical - and the British Colonial office certainly ordered Hobson not to sign a treaty - becauser the British Crown recognised the declaration of Independence - and yet the white people here acted unethically and Hobson ignored his orders ...

Imagine where we would be if we had been allowed to develop as we were already doing ... where woudl Māori be in today's world? But all that was taken by the imigrant Pākehā - and Pākehā have continued to benefit from that ... we see that all the time - every day - is it any wonder some of us are angry ?? And then we get accussed of having "more opportunities" handed to us .. that is such bullshit ... and just rubs in salt ... The Pākehā world took our whole world, and now dribbles a few crumbs from the table and calls it "advantages" ... Isd it any wornder some of us are angry ...

By the mid 21st Centrury the total treaty settlement process had cost this country less than one year's profit from Telecom ... around $700million dollars - Telecom earned more than that the year I saw those statistics ... (I'm not sure what the current comparison is) How come this company gets to make $700million dollars in just one year but the white people begrudge the same amount to Māori ??? The tax alone from this company paid during the years of the treaty process has more than covered the total treaty settlements ...

How much tax do you think the Maori shareholders in Fonterrra pay each year ?? And yet the treaty settlements are begrudingly handed out - and we get accussed of wanting hand outs all the time ...

the white world earns millions each year in this country - but begrudges the small amount paid out in treaty settlements- fuck, the Māori ecomony is worth abiout $36buillion in this country - so that ecomony contributes, (at a rough calculation of 33%) $11billion annually in taxes ... adn yet $1billion in treaty settlements is seen as Maori demanding hand outs all the time ..


And we see the past all around us - you mention Gate Pa .. it sits on the hill and people can see, every day, the reminders of the past ... all of us live on land that was once ours - but unfairly taken by the Pākehā - sure there were legitimate sales .. but also plenty of blood and death - the slaying of our people ... Every year in New Zealand in April we recognise the events of the past - called WARS ... should we forget that past and move forward? WWI was 100 years ago - ancient history - forget it ... (no, seriously we should remember that) But when we remember our past, the Māori past - we are wrong and get told to forget the past ...

Most Pākehā in this country slightly remember the Highland Land clearances, the Irish "troubles" ... but they are not surrounded every day by the pyshical reminders of those events .. nor are they forced, every day, to speak the language of the invaders ... act in ways demanded by the invaders ... Most Pākehā in this country have been cut off from their past by the move to the other side of the world

Scotland sings Flower of Scotland as their anthem .. a reference to William Wallace ... 100s of years in the past - How come Scottish people in Sotland rememebr that past - but Scottish descent people here have forgotten it? So - Scotland is allowed to remember events of the distant past but Māori are not allowed to remember events of less that 200 years ago??

You want us to forget the past and move on ... but the solutions to today's issues lies in recognizing the past and dealing with those issues ... If we do not, then those issues will remain ... South Africa had a brilliant solution - the Truth and Reconciliation Commision process allows that country to move forward ... they did not forget their past - they recognized it and dealt with it ..

About time we did the same thing here ... just a small example, unless we rercognize and deal with the past we will always have angry people who commit domestic violence and child abuse ... and high rates of alcoholism and drug abuse ...

Unless we deal with propoganda from the past that white people still carry and recognise that Māori are not stupid lazy and genetically inclined to crime, we will always have a racist society

Unless we deal with the propoganda that says the white society's way is the best way ... then we will always have systems and processes that discriminate against Māori. Unless we deal with the past we will never move forward in appropriate and productive ways.


Shit - as I go back and edit this I keep aqdding stuff - and my anger increases .. I don't need this shit - I need coffee. Ka mutu tēnei kōreo.

[Banditbandit]

Both sides should be finalising claims and being done with it.

I agree ... 'bout time the colonzing culture agreed ...

[Banditbandit]

Oh, and toilet brewed alcohol in prison doesn't count as entrepreneurial :chase:

That is so wrong and demeaning - even if you meant it as a joke it just perpetrates the racist bullshit of the white world ...

In fact, in the 2006 census the largest number of Māori entrepreneurs were in the Finance and Insurance Sector and the second biggest group was in the Communications Sector (2degrees is a Maori-owned company - how many of you who subscribe to 2degrees know it is Māori owned?) ...

This kind of racist shit just makes me angry .. I'm out for a while ...

(But I do need to correct something I said .. Māori are not the largest entreprenurial group by percentage in the world - in 2011 they were the third largest).

[oldrider]

sure, why wouldnt you trust this guy?

So you spotted the flaw in the site then! :lol:

[Zedder]

OK .. this is a relativerly easy one to deal with too ...

Here I was answering Smoke's question about why there is a high rate of doemtstic violnce. I was attempting, in a very short answer, to get axcross the kind of mindset that some peoppel have - and that leads them to domestic violence.

I would stress that I was not pushing my own mindset. I work in educastion to try to change that mindset and get people moving forwards ...


However - from the other culture here - "those who do not know their history are bodn to repeat it". We rememebr our history - because it informs the present. It makes us who we are today.

The dominant culture has a different view of time and narrative from Māori culture. All our words for the past sound like the future

Mai rāno = the days come again ...
Nga ra o mua - The days in front ...

As we try to frame these concepts in English we get accussed of staying in the past - well yes, our past is us, it is all around us, it is our future as well. THis does not mean that we are stuck in the old ways - of course we move forwards. Te Ao hurihuri ...

Māori had the highest rate of literacy acquisistion in the world ... so much for today's poor educational achievement ...

In 1860 there were something like 60 Māori-owned trading ships working out of New Zealand ... the Waikato was farmed by Māori owners and the goods shipped to Auckland on Maori-owned river barges and sold in Auckland or shipped across the Tasman on Maori-owned ships to be sold in Ozz .. My own tipuna grow wheat, milled it in their own mills, sold the flour to the Pākehā - along with fruit from Māori-owned orchards, loads of firewood gathered from the ngahere ...

Our tipuna jumped into the new capitalist world with both feet ...

Which past do you think we want to return to? The tribal society of pre-contact or the healthy capitalist world of the 1800s?

Did you know that Māori are the single biggest shareholder group in Fonterra? New ZEaland's largest company and Māori are the single biggest shareholder group ... And they didn't get those shares through a treaty claim ... and there are plenty of other business examples ...

Second, the chance to delevop in the modern world was taken from us by the colonization of the 1800 and 1900s .. a huge loss of land meant a huge loss of economic power. At the time, western writers were saying that Colonization was unethical - and the British Colonial office certainly ordered Hobson not to sign a treaty - becauser the British Crown recognised the declaration of Independence - and yet the white people here acted unethically and Hobson ignored his orders ...

Imagine where we would be if we had been allowed to develop as we were already doing ... where woudl Māori be in today's world? But all that was taken by the imigrant Pākehā - and Pākehā have continued to benefit from that ... we see that all the time - every day - is it any wonder some of us are angry ?? And then we get accussed of having "more opportunities" handed to us .. that is such bullshit ... and just rubs in salt ... The Pākehā world took our whole world, and now dribbles a few crumbs from the table and calls it "advantages" ... Isd it any wornder some of us are angry ...

By the mid 21st Centrury the total treaty settlement process had cost this country less than one year's profit from Telecom ... around $700million dollars - Telecom earned more than that the year I saw those statistics ... (I'm not sure what the current comparison is) How come this company gets to make $700million dollars in just one year but the white people begrudge the same amount to Māori ??? The tax alone from this company paid during the years of the treaty process has more than covered the total treaty settlements ...

How much tax do you think the Maori shareholders in Fonterrra pay each year ?? And yet the treaty settlements are begrudingly handed out - and we get accussed of wanting hand outs all the time ...

the white world earns millions each year in this country - but begrudges the small amount paid out in treaty settlements- fuck, the Māori ecomony is worth abiout $36buillion in this country - so that ecomony contributes, (at a rough calculation of 33%) $11billion annually in taxes ... adn yet $1billion in treaty settlements is seen as Maori demanding hand outs all the time ..


And we see the past all around us - you mention Gate Pa .. it sits on the hill and people can see, every day, the reminders of the past ... all of us live on land that was once ours - but unfairly taken by the Pākehā - sure there were legitimate sales .. but also plenty of blood and death - the slaying of our people ... Every year in New Zealand in April we recognise the events of the past - called WARS ... should we forget that past and move forward? WWI was 100 years ago - ancient history - forget it ... (no, seriously we should remember that) But when we remember our past, the Māori past - we are wrong and get told to forget the past ...

Most Pākehā in this country slightly remember the Highland Land clearances, the Irish "troubles" ... but they are not surrounded every day by the pyshical reminders of those events .. nor are they forced, every day, to speak the language of the invaders ... act in ways demanded by the invaders ... Most Pākehā in this country have been cut off from their past by the move to the other side of the world

Scotland sings Flower of Scotland as their anthem .. a reference to William Wallace ... 100s of years in the past - How come Scottish people in Sotland rememebr that past - but Scottish descent people here have forgotten it? So - Scotland is allowed to remember events of the distant past but Māori are not allowed to remember events of less that 200 years ago??

You want us to forget the past and move on ... but the solutions to today's issues lies in recognizing the past and dealing with those issues ... If we do not, then those issues will remain ... South Africa had a brilliant solution - the Truth and Reconciliation Commision process allows that country to move forward ... they did not forget their past - they recognized it and dealt with it ..

About time we did the same thing here ... just a small example, unless we rercognize and deal with the past we will always have angry people who commit domestic violence and child abuse ... and high rates of alcoholism and drug abuse ...

Unless we deal with propoganda from the past that white people still carry and recognise that Māori are not stupid lazy and genetically inclined to crime, we will always have a racist society

Unless we deal with the propoganda that says the white society's way is the best way ... then we will always have systems and processes that discriminate against Māori. Unless we deal with the past we will never move forward in appropriate and productive ways.


Shit - as I go back and edit this I keep aqdding stuff - and my anger increases .. I don't need this shit - I need coffee. Ka mutu tēnei kōreo.

Good to see you're getting it out of your system. Next step, growing up...

[Zedder]

I agree ... 'bout time the colonzing culture agreed ...

They have done for a while now.

[oldrider]

OK .. this is a relativerly easy one to deal with too ...

Here I was answering Smoke's question about why there is a high rate of doemtstic violnce. I was attempting, in a very short answer, to get axcross the kind of mindset that some peoppel have - and that leads them to domestic violence.

I would stress that I was not pushing my own mindset. I work in educastion to try to change that mindset and get people moving forwards ...


However - from the other culture here - "those who do not know their history are bodn to repeat it". We rememebr our history - because it informs the present. It makes us who we are today.

The dominant culture has a different view of time and narrative from Māori culture. All our words for the past sound like the future

Mai rāno = the days come again ...
Nga ra o mua - The days in front ...

As we try to frame these concepts in English we get accussed of staying in the past - well yes, our past is us, it is all around us, it is our future as well. THis does not mean that we are stuck in the old ways - of course we move forwards. Te Ao hurihuri ...

Māori had the highest rate of literacy acquisistion in the world ... so much for today's poor educational achievement ...

In 1860 there were something like 60 Māori-owned trading ships working out of New Zealand ... the Waikato was farmed by Māori owners and the goods shipped to Auckland on Maori-owned river barges and sold in Auckland or shipped across the Tasman on Maori-owned ships to be sold in Ozz .. My own tipuna grow wheat, milled it in their own mills, sold the flour to the Pākehā - along with fruit from Māori-owned orchards, loads of firewood gathered from the ngahere ...

Our tipuna jumped into the new capitalist world with both feet ...

Which past do you think we want to return to? The tribal society of pre-contact or the healthy capitalist world of the 1800s?

Did you know that Māori are the single biggest shareholder group in Fonterra? New ZEaland's largest company and Māori are the single biggest shareholder group ... And they didn't get those shares through a treaty claim ... and there are plenty of other business examples ...

Second, the chance to delevop in the modern world was taken from us by the colonization of the 1800 and 1900s .. a huge loss of land meant a huge loss of economic power. At the time, western writers were saying that Colonization was unethical - and the British Colonial office certainly ordered Hobson not to sign a treaty - becauser the British Crown recognised the declaration of Independence - and yet the white people here acted unethically and Hobson ignored his orders ...

Imagine where we would be if we had been allowed to develop as we were already doing ... where woudl Māori be in today's world? But all that was taken by the imigrant Pākehā - and Pākehā have continued to benefit from that ... we see that all the time - every day - is it any wonder some of us are angry ?? And then we get accussed of having "more opportunities" handed to us .. that is such bullshit ... and just rubs in salt ... The Pākehā world took our whole world, and now dribbles a few crumbs from the table and calls it "advantages" ... Isd it any wornder some of us are angry ...

By the mid 21st Centrury the total treaty settlement process had cost this country less than one year's profit from Telecom ... around $700million dollars - Telecom earned more than that the year I saw those statistics ... (I'm not sure what the current comparison is) How come this company gets to make $700million dollars in just one year but the white people begrudge the same amount to Māori ??? The tax alone from this company paid during the years of the treaty process has more than covered the total treaty settlements ...

How much tax do you think the Maori shareholders in Fonterrra pay each year ?? And yet the treaty settlements are begrudingly handed out - and we get accussed of wanting hand outs all the time ...

the white world earns millions each year in this country - but begrudges the small amount paid out in treaty settlements- fuck, the Māori ecomony is worth abiout $36buillion in this country - so that ecomony contributes, (at a rough calculation of 33%) $11billion annually in taxes ... adn yet $1billion in treaty settlements is seen as Maori demanding hand outs all the time ..


And we see the past all around us - you mention Gate Pa .. it sits on the hill and people can see, every day, the reminders of the past ... all of us live on land that was once ours - but unfairly taken by the Pākehā - sure there were legitimate sales .. but also plenty of blood and death - the slaying of our people ... Every year in New Zealand in April we recognise the events of the past - called WARS ... should we forget that past and move forward? WWI was 100 years ago - ancient history - forget it ... (no, seriously we should remember that) But when we remember our past, the Māori past - we are wrong and get told to forget the past ...

Most Pākehā in this country slightly remember the Highland Land clearances, the Irish "troubles" ... but they are not surrounded every day by the pyshical reminders of those events .. nor are they forced, every day, to speak the language of the invaders ... act in ways demanded by the invaders ... Most Pākehā in this country have been cut off from their past by the move to the other side of the world

Scotland sings Flower of Scotland as their anthem .. a reference to William Wallace ... 100s of years in the past - How come Scottish people in Sotland rememebr that past - but Scottish descent people here have forgotten it? So - Scotland is allowed to remember events of the distant past but Māori are not allowed to remember events of less that 200 years ago??

You want us to forget the past and move on ... but the solutions to today's issues lies in recognizing the past and dealing with those issues ... If we do not, then those issues will remain ... South Africa had a brilliant solution - the Truth and Reconciliation Commision process allows that country to move forward ... they did not forget their past - they recognized it and dealt with it ..

About time we did the same thing here ... just a small example, unless we rercognize and deal with the past we will always have angry people who commit domestic violence and child abuse ... and high rates of alcoholism and drug abuse ...

Unless we deal with propoganda from the past that white people still carry and recognise that Māori are not stupid lazy and genetically inclined to crime, we will always have a racist society

Unless we deal with the propoganda that says the white society's way is the best way ... then we will always have systems and processes that discriminate against Māori. Unless we deal with the past we will never move forward in appropriate and productive ways.


Shit - as I go back and edit this I keep aqdding stuff - and my anger increases .. I don't need this shit - I need coffee. Ka mutu tēnei kōreo.

So what you are trying to say (with all this them and us talk) is that you are genetically totally Maori.

Maybe we all need coffee!

[Zedder]

So what you are trying to say (with all this them and us talk) is that you are genetically totally Maori.

Maybe we all need coffee!

He probably has too much coffee hence the rantings.

[bogan]

That is so wrong and demeaning - even if you meant it as a joke it just perpetrates the racist bullshit of the white world ...

In fact, in the 2006 census the largest number of Māori entrepreneurs were in the Finance and Insurance Sector and the second biggest group was in the Communications Sector (2degrees is a Maori-owned company - how many of you who subscribe to 2degrees know it is Māori owned?) ...

This kind of racist shit just makes me angry .. I'm out for a while ...

(But I do need to correct something I said .. Māori are not the largest entreprenurial group by percentage in the world - in 2011 they were the third largest).

Of course I meant it as a joke, and you know what else perpetuates the racist bullshit? Your continued segmentation of groups in an us vs them tone. Why are you allowed to make make false stats claims about 'your' group, and then get all up in arms when I make light of one of the true (correct me if I'm wrong though) stats 'your' group exhibits?

Racial segmentation should be treated with scorn, and consigned to irrelevance. And of course this has to go both ways, you get on your high horse about Maori, you should be taken down a few pegs, smokeu or someone else gets all whitesupremacy and they should also be taken down a few pegs. I'm with Zedder, grow up dude, you're coming off as the most racist one here.

[oldrider]

Try 0.2%. IMHO, the anti-Jewish sentiment probably boils down to the very human feelings of fear and jealousy with a bit of religious competition thrown in.

Other races feature prominantly in all the facets you wrote of, for example Chinese and Indian, but there's a lot less Jews doing very well so that's a "problem" to some in itself.

Remember the old Protocols of Zion? Much of which in hindsight certainly makes you think!

Well here is a link to an apparent update, interesting if nothing else, even KB is featured! (Well, behaviourally not literally)

http://www.rense.com/general49/prot.htm

[Zedder]

Remember the old Protocols of Zion? Much of which in hindsight certainly makes you think!

Well here is a link to an apparent update, interesting if nothing else, even KB is featured! (Well, behaviourally not literally)

http://www.rense.com/general49/prot.htm

The website www.antichristconspiracy.com is a bit of a giveaway though.

[bogan]

Remember the old Protocols of Zion? Much of which in hindsight certainly makes you think!

Well here is a link to an apparent update, interesting if nothing else, even KB is featured! (Well, behaviourally not literally)

http://www.rense.com/general49/prot.htm


The website www.antichristconspiracy.com is a bit of a giveaway though.

Why are all those sites always stuck with mid 90s era web design...

[imdying]

Māori economy worth $36Bilion dollars annually ...

Higher percentage of Māori in tertiary education than Pākehā ...

Māori highest percentage of entrepreneurs of any group in the WORLD ... Yet, still this (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/9453331/Funding-boost-for-Maori-schools).

All aboard!

<img src="http://www.globalgranary.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Gravy-Train.jpg" />

[avgas]

not the brightest crayon in the dishwasher are ya?

I never said it was an adjective.
If i call you A JEW its because you exhibit jew traits, like fucking people over to get money.
Like if i call you A FAG, im not actually implying you are a bundle of sticks, nor a hommo sexcual, just that youre exhibiting fag traits.
Fags you can burn. Jews you have to gas.
Jewes are the fuckers you have to watch out for.

[oldrider]

Why are all those sites always stuck with mid 90s era web design...

Way back that stuff was distributed as funny little paperback booklets, I guess the "modern" E-sites are the equivalent!

I first became acquainted with these subjects in my early years.

As I was growing up post WW2, I was trying to work out/understand how on earth the Hitler/German holocaust situation could have occurred!

During my teens as an apprentice I worked in the laboratory at the Woburn railway workshops.

One of the key laboratory men there was a Zionist Jew and he let me have space for my Coca Cola in his refrigerator on the condition that I sold his Zionist raffle tickets!

His name was Alex ... (long since dead) and was a really nice wee guy when you got to know him.

We had some really good discussions about the Nazi/Jew/Zionist situation (he had the number on his arm etc) and interestingly all of it was not in favour of the Jews.

As a person I learned to like and respect Alex and appreciate him as an individual and learned a lot from him.

If I or anyone else were to express an opinion of any Jewish situation on this or any other forum it would be immediately Jumped on and sent to PD!

It is that sort of reaction that makes one think that there is a certain amount of truth to claims made within documents such as the protocols of Zion etc.

It's always an interesting subject which requires one to adopt a neutral attitude when studying it or you will just get bogged down and entrenched. :confused:

[Brian d marge]

Given a choice between sending my assets to america or maori
Maori win

Even if they couldnt organise a piss up in a brewery they are a damn sight better option for nz than walmart

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Akzle]

Announce:
Thread derailment complete.

[Zedder]

Why are all those sites always stuck with mid 90s era web design...

Bloody good question!

I shall not rest until I get to the bottom of this travesty. It is a disgusting slur on the otherwise good name of website developers worldwide.

[Zedder]

Announce:
Thread derailment complete.

Haere mai Akzle.

[bogan]

Bloody good question!

I shall not rest until I get to the bottom of this travesty. It is a disgusting slur on the otherwise good name of website developers worldwide.

I hear there are some inquisitive Spaniards in need of employ :innocent:

[Zedder]

I hear there are some inquisitive Spaniards in need of employ :innocent:

Excellent idea, nobody expects them and they have a good range of weapons at their disposal.

[GCSB Thought Police]

OK .. this is a relativerly easy one to deal with too ...

Unless we deal with the past we will never move forward in appropriate and productive ways.


Shit - as I go back and edit this I keep aqdding stuff - and my anger increases .. I don't need this shit - I need coffee. Ka mutu tēnei kōreo.


See. You really should learning, after 40 odd years of espousing these issues, that your brand of politics is no longer wanted in this country. We have won. We have won the propoganda war, and we have won the battle. It is our world. We control the general population. The replies you recieved should tell you that.

Go back to your motorcycles, your fishing and wait to retire. We will let you do that. Go quietly before the new agreement with the USA. Once that is signed we will not be able to offer such good advice to people like you.

[mashman]

See. You really should learning, after 40 odd years of espousing these issues, that your brand of politics is no longer wanted in this country. We have won. We have won the propoganda war, and we have won the battle. It is our world. We control the general population. The replies you recieved should tell you that.

Go back to your motorcycles, your fishing and wait to retire. We will let you do that. Go quietly before the new agreement with the USA. Once that is signed we will not be able to offer such good advice to people like you.

You just sit there in your little win bubble, as I fully intend to hand out pins one day in the not too distant future. Then we'll see if the majority prefer your world, ya know, once the people been offered an alternative and asked.

[Brian d marge]

Ive just bought me self anew compound bow
Bring it on i say

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Akzle]

Ive just bought me self anew compound bow
Bring it on i say

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

a recurve is quieter :msn-wink:

sent from my bean can and shoelace.

[Banditbandit]

a recurve is quieter :msn-wink:



Yeah .. I have two Anerican Indian flat bows and a Commanche copy horse back bow ...

Very silent and deadly

Compound bows are deadly accurate tho' .. I could not believe how accurate I was the first three shots made on one. I was immediately as accurate with the compound as I was with any of my flat bows.

Sent from here on a random Friday afternoon

[Akzle]

Sent from here on a random Friday afternoon

i think youll find friday afternoons arent random. And do in fact, follow friday beforenoons.

Compounds are also quicker, carrying more energy on a flatter trajectory. Energy slightly irrelevant since we're aiming for blood loss and trauma,
youre not a member of the nz horesback archery society are ya?!

Id pick odds on a 1:3 ambush with compounds. But if lone wolfing it id take the recurve. I should finish the stock for my xbow too.

[Banditbandit]

i think youll find friday afternoons arent random. And do in fact, follow friday beforenoons.

Compounds are also quicker, carrying more energy on a flatter trajectory. Energy slightly irrelevant since we're aiming for blood loss and trauma,
youre not a member of the nz horesback archery society are ya?!

Id pick odds on a 1:3 ambush with compounds. But if lone wolfing it id take the recurve. I should finish the stock for my xbow too.

No, I don't like horses .. fucking thngs stand on your when they are happy and kick you when they are pissed - and they shit everywhere ..

The horseback bow is short tho', meant for shooting from a horse without digging the bottom of the bow into the horse ... ride up alongside a BIson and fire and arow into it ... it packs a lot of punch ... kicks in my hands too - tho' it is only 40pounds ... I bought it from someone who didn't want it - got it cheap ...

Do you build bows?

[Akzle]

The horseback bow is short tho

Do you build bows?

try an old scots longbow. About 6ft and a straight stick. Considering the average scot was 5ft, their archers could pull the bow into a 'D'...

Not at the moment. Its on my to do list. And ive plenty of willow to cut.

Used to, running around playin crackers and murrays...
There was one i always espied, named/branded 'victory', very light wood laminate, 56" 45lb. First and last bow i robin hooded with.
...ill never forget the sound eatons make as they peel.

[Brian d marge]

Well you can buy everything from a 200 pound pull crossbow to a 50 lb compound to a 30 reflex
I bought a slingshot and a 30 lb compound for err training purposes only

In nz do u need a license?
Here one click on amazon.co.jp

Stephen

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[Akzle]

Well you can buy everything from a 200 pound pull crossbow to a 50 lb compound to a 30 reflex
I bought a slingshot and a 30 lb compound for err training purposes only

In nz do u need a license?
Here one click on amazon.co.jp

Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

nope. Only powder burners and 'especially dangerous' airguns.
Theres legislation against 'offensive weapons' and shit, and im not sure about taking 'crown' animals on 'DOC' land with an arrow.
But generally. You can has bows, x bows etc.

im fuken uteless with my slingshot.

Wheres my fuken knife gaijin??

[Brian d marge]

Cool let the revolution start in nz

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[Akzle]

we cant risk another frontal assault, that rabbit is dynamite.

[Brian d marge]

we cant risk another frontal assault, that rabbit is dynamite.

And you smell of elderberries

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