Back protectors?

[Jayman]

Hi all, just about to book myself an ART day and need to get a back protector. Looking on trademe and they mostly around $30, which seems too cheap. Looking at shop websites and they seem to start at $200+, which is a mighty jump in price.

I was wondering if anyone knew if the trademe ones were as crap as their price suggests, or if they are actually pretty solid? Beyond that, any other suggestions for what to get?

Thanks in advance!

[SPP]

Hi all, just about to book myself an ART day and need to get a back protector. Looking on trademe and they mostly around $30, which seems too cheap. Looking at shop websites and they seem to start at $200+, which is a mighty jump in price.

I was wondering if anyone knew if the trademe ones were as crap as their price suggests, or if they are actually pretty solid? Beyond that, any other suggestions for what to get?

Thanks in advance!

Made in China to who knows what standard. Might be okay, might be shit.

If you don't wanna spend mega look at the AX Race Shell (http://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/3APRBN3RS/title/axo-race-shell) at T7 for 70 bucks. CE level 1 but at least it's been tested. It's comfortable and doesn't take up a tonne of space in your suit.

The Rjays (http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/rjbppow.aspx) is another I looked in motomail for 120 bucks. CE level 1 as well.

[Taxythingy]

Thought about writing a cynical Trademe bash, but I won't. See SPP's comment regarding CE certification.

I wear and recommend the Alpinestars track vest. Wear it nearly every day and it fits brilliantly. Haven't crash tested, which is the most important thing, but it is otherwise comfortable, breathable and apparently washable (for those with hygiene requirements). It also doesn't look like it belongs in the rugrat's marine corps or similar.

I paid what I think it's worth to me. My use and risk profile might be different to yours. Open road commute, all weather. Two kids (1 kid and 1 brat tonight). Intention of paying more in ACC levies than I end up using.

[Gremlin]

My back protector is CE2 from memory, and cost more like $360. Then add in the chest protector and it's more like $500 all up. So $200 ain't too bad and I'm hardly ever on a race track.

Biggest thing is protection. More expensive units will have interlocking plates which will limit how far the spine can bend backwards (coz that's bad). Also, the cheap ones will have less coverage, while the more expensive ones will possibly reach towards shoulders, right down to coccyx etc.

[ckai]

I have this one (Knox Contour Race)

290693

Well, the one of the right anyway. Comfy as hell. Haven't used it much since I don't have the money to go on the track. I paid $150 for it on closeout I think and that was a steal. No way in hell I would pay less for that unless it was 2nd hand or massively discounted. I wouldn't recommend a $30 one to my enemy let alone my friends but I'd love to be proven wrong.

[rapid van cleef]

Dont buy the cheap shit off trademe. In the UK, Ride magazine did extensive tests in a lab of a range of brand name protection that was already fitted to bike gear, and also the dedicated stuff you buy to wear underneath your jacket etc.

It was done in a lab using pretty technical equipment(im no engineer)....not just how tough did it feel etc. As a comparioson they also tested the impact absortption of a .......cheese sandwhich....seriously....no bullshit. At the time the Forcefield and Knox gear surpassed the Alpinestars etc. The scary thing is that some of the brand name armour had lower absorption qualities than the sandwhich and let the energy pass straight through the armour to the sensors. Make sure what you buy is CE certified or you may as well strap a cheese sandwhich to your back.

[Dragon]

Give the guys at Qmoto a bell they do back protectors as well :)

[Erelyes]

Get at LEAST CE level 1, preferably CE level 2.

If it doesn't say the level... it's level 1.

I did a bit of research and either the Tryonic, Forcefield, or Knox offerings looked the best value for money. I went Forcefield Kevlar L2K which is level 2.

Mine will be under $300 after shipping, and I got reamed for shipping through Youshop from the USA (somehow, it's 15cm thick after repacking :facepalm:)

Dold claims to import them (http://www.dold.co.nz/products/Forcefield/Forcefield_Gear/Back_Protector_-_L2K.aspx) but didn't reply to emails asking for price (because putting prices on their website might be helpful?).

[busadayz]

I wear a Forcefield back protector, tested thoroughly at a race meet at Taupo in November. It no doubt saved further serious injury to me. Gear only has to do its job once to be effective, (like my helmet to). You can spend cheaper and more than likely it will be better than nothing at all. As they say with helmets buy the best you can that is the most comfortable. No one wants to have an off and most will probably walk away from them, but too late to think about it afterwards. My Forcefield is very comfy, but not cheap.
I believe Dolds are the importer, as such they don't give out pricing. They should be able to put you in touch with a retailer that sells them though.

[Jayman]

Thanks all! Good food for thought! Yeah looking at the ones on trademe none of them mention CE ratings, so that kinda answers that one! I realise you get what you paid for and safety first etc... but there is a budget (just got Revit leathers $400) and I'm going to need a new helmet (~$500) before my track day ($200) so yeah... it's all adding up! I've spotted a REV'IT jacket insert at motomail for $80, it's CE-2 although looks like a large sponge so don't get how that works.


If you don't wanna spend mega look at the AX Race Shell at T7 for 70 bucks.

Does fit in your jacket? Or do you need to wear it under your jacket? Looks good for the price!

Thanks again everyone!

[SPP]

Does fit in your jacket? Or do you need to wear it under your jacket? Looks good for the price!

You wear the AXO under your jacket or suit. The shoulder straps and waist band hold it in place and the secondary straps (kidney) snug it up good and secure. If you're seriously looking at one of these they fit small so go up a size to get decent length (tail to shoulders).

I'm weary of the protectors that fit into back pockets. Even if they're decent build they more than likely won't have quite as much tail coverage and would move around with the jacket.

[Taxythingy]

I've spotted a REV'IT jacket insert at motomail for $80, it's CE-2 although looks like a large sponge so don't get how that works.


CE motorcycle armour ratings refer to a maximum level of force that passes through the armour from a standardised test. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_armor

Level 2 for back protectors requires a larger coverage area and lower transmitted forces. The easiest way to pass these tests is to make the armour out of foam. Hard plastic plates will spread an impact over a larger area (therefore thinner foam or better protection), better withstand abrasion, reduce backward flex if interlocking and probably provide better protection against sharper objects (i.e. cut or stab). Forcefield's kevlar armour will likely do the same stuff as good plastic plates. I am not a materials scientist. Results may vary.

I'm happy with my Alpinestars, but would probably replace with CE 2 armour from Knox or Forcefield.

[xen]

I'll probably get a Forcefield L2k soon, you can get it at your local shop RRP $245

[p.dath]

I guess you should consider what you want a back protector to do for you (apart from give you entry into AMCC ART day).

The CE certifications for back protectors have nothing about abrasion resistance in them. They also don't require a test result that will result in you living from a direct impact to your back (specifically, the test energy pass point for CE level 2 is enough to kill you).

For track days the, IMHO, requirement is to offer some abrasion resistance for your back in case your gear separates or wears through, and reduce the pain and bruising from a "light" impact to your back (perhaps against an impact from another bike, or even part of the track from a long slide).


I haven't seen any back protectors that would offer serious abrasion resistance. Most seem to be made from plastic that looks like it would wear very quickly. So failing that, the simple plastic back protectors with inter-locking plates to prevent you being bent backwards seem a reasonable option.


I own a back protector myself - but in reality I think there value is almost worthless for the protection they offer.

[bluninja]

I guess you should consider what you want a back protector to do for you (apart from give you entry into AMCC ART day).

The CE certifications for back protectors have nothing about abrasion resistance in them. They also don't require a test result that will result in you living from a direct impact to your back (specifically, the test energy pass point for CE level 2 is enough to kill you).

For track days the, IMHO, requirement is to offer some abrasion resistance for your back in case your gear separates or wears through, and reduce the pain and bruising from a "light" impact to your back (perhaps against an impact from another bike, or even part of the track from a long slide).


I haven't seen any back protectors that would offer serious abrasion resistance. Most seem to be made from plastic that looks like it would wear very quickly. So failing that, the simple plastic back protectors with inter-locking plates to prevent you being bent backwards seem a reasonable option.


I own a back protector myself - but in reality I think there value is almost worthless for the protection they offer.

Having tested Dainese back protectors a few times I would disagree a little with your post. A high side that had my bike invert and me coming down hard on the track left me uninjured, though I had light bruising around the outline edge of the protector at my shoulder blades. I have also had a high speed bump and bounce on the Manfield grass infield which again resulted in no back injury. In none of my tarmac excursions have I abraded through the back part of my leathers. Perhaps I need to go faster.

The foam is their for impact absorption, those with a hard shell provide (potentially) a little more protection to spread the impact across the foam and reduce the intrusion of a sharp object. Your outer wear is there for abrasion resistance. If you think it's not up to it, or that the 2 piece might come apart, then get that sorted; adding a back protector, in this scenario, is not the answer.

[chasio]

... I've spotted a REV'IT jacket insert at motomail for $80, it's CE-2 although looks like a large sponge so don't get how that works.

Does fit in your jacket? Or do you need to wear it under your jacket? Looks good for the price!


I'm weary of the protectors that fit into back pockets. Even if they're decent build they more than likely won't have quite as much tail coverage and would move around with the jacket.

I use one of the Revit upgrade inserts for convenience when speeds aren't likely to be that high. It replaces the foam pad (largely useless I am sure) in the inner pocket and the layering makes it a lot harder than you'd expect from the looks of it.

Combined with a Dainese waist belt with some armour, I reckon the two together is pretty good and is cooler plus easier to remove and store when off the bike than a long back protector with shoulder and waist straps. Downside is that this combo lacks the protection against overextension that a properly made long one has.

But I also have the RJays longer one from MM that seems OK. I have used that at ART and for rides I thought had a higher "off chance" e.g. adventuring.

I'd rather have one or other of these approaches than nothing, myself. Each to his own :)

[Jayman]

Thanks again all, I've just ordered the AXO Race Shell (https://www.torpedo7.co.nz/products/3APRBN3RS/title/axo-race-shell), which seems to offer a nice balance between affordability and protection (from what I can see anyway; CE-1).

From what I have read there does seems to be some debate about the effectiveness of these things. That is, it probably wont save a life. But, if you take a bit of a tumble it only makes sense that having a bit more armor over a vulnerable part of the body could prevent or reduce some injury, which is worth the effort (gloves and boots wont save your life either!). Now I guess we'll see how comfortable/hot it is and how often I am likely to actually wear the thing!

[Milts]

Good move buying something with a test certification. As you say, it's a balance between the best and what you can afford.

The guy who runs the MotoTT track days swears by high quality back protectors - reckons he wouldn't be walking without his.

My understanding is that if you slide into a post at high speed, they're unlikely to stop you snapping your back in half. But, if you highside, or slide into a kerb, rock etc at medium speed, they'll prevent you fracturing your spine/ribs/tailbone which IMO is well worth the money.

I'd keep an eye out on trademe for second hand Level 2 certified back protectors in case one goes cheap. I think there's quite a difference in amount of energy absorbed between lvl 1 and 2, but you are worlds better off having a lvl 1 protector than some untested, uncertified piece of cheap packing foam and plastic like some of the ones available.

[Erelyes]

Good move buying something with a test certification. As you say, it's a balance between the best and what you can afford.

The guy who runs the MotoTT track days swears by high quality back protectors - reckons he wouldn't be walking without his.

My understanding is that if you slide into a post at high speed, they're unlikely to stop you snapping your back in half. But, if you highside, or slide into a kerb, rock etc at medium speed, they'll prevent you fracturing your spine/ribs/tailbone which IMO is well worth the money.

I'd keep an eye out on trademe for second hand Level 2 certified back protectors in case one goes cheap. I think there's quite a difference in amount of energy absorbed between lvl 1 and 2, but you are worlds better off having a lvl 1 protector than some untested, uncertified piece of cheap packing foam and plastic like some of the ones available.

Level 1 : average of several tests below 18 kN, and no single value over 24 kN.
Level 2 : average of several tests below 9 kN, and no single value over 12 kN.

There are two protectors that offer under 4kN average (Forcefield Pro Sub4 at 3.38kN and Tryonic Feel 3.7 at 3.7kN)

[Jayman]

Well the AXO back protector arrived today, I'm impressed by the speed of delivery so well done Torpedo7. It's very light weight, and if it didn't have the CE rating on it I would seriously question if there is any benefit to it at all. Seems like a token gesture really, being as light and flimsy as it is, but as it has the rating I'll take it that an informed group of qualified people would say it offers benefit. From the videos, looks like the REV'IT insert is similarly thin. I guess I just though they would need more padding, as that is usually how these things are done. Once the cashflow recovers I think I'll head on down to MM and have a look and feel at some of the others here have suggested, but for now I'm happy to have a CE back protector for under $80.

[nzspokes]

I own a back protector myself - but in reality I think there value is almost worthless for the protection they offer.

That's very wrong and terrible advise.

A back protector is not for slide resistance. That's what your outer shell is for, eg leathers.

My partner hit a car at high speed. Was thrown 20m at 100kph. She had an oxford back protector on. She cracked L5. But L5 was outside of the protected area. There were many other traumatic injuries but due to great gear she survived, just. Just is enough for me. The good outer shell protected her skin. Back protector kept her able to move and slowly get back walking. Quality helmet and boots meant there were no injuries there. Gloves were stuffed but no damage to her hands.

I strongly believe my girl sits next to me each day due to each part of this gear. I wear a a full length Spidi back protector, all the time when on the bike.

Wear the gear for the slide not for the ride.

[SPP]

I guess you should consider what you want a back protector to do for you (apart from give you entry into AMCC ART day).
For track days the, IMHO, requirement is to offer some abrasion resistance for your back in case your gear separates or wears through, I haven't seen any back protectors that would offer serious abrasion resistance. Most seem to be made from plastic that looks like it would wear very quickly. So failing that, the simple plastic back protectors with inter-locking plates to prevent you being bent backwards seem a reasonable option.

Some probably do but I'm picking they'd be spendy. Abrasion resistance is what your leathers are for and why two-piece gear must zip together. Ignoring that, the cheap BP's on TM might be okay or they might be shit, who knows.


Well the AXO back protector arrived today, I'm impressed by the speed of delivery so well done Torpedo7. It's very light weight, and if it didn't have the CE rating on it I would seriously question if there is any benefit to it at all. Seems like a token gesture really, being as light and flimsy as it is, but as it has the rating I'll take it that an informed group of qualified people would say it offers benefit. From the videos, looks like the REV'IT insert is similarly thin. I guess I just though they would need more padding, as that is usually how these things are done. Once the cashflow recovers I think I'll head on down to MM and have a look and feel at some of the others here have suggested, but for now I'm happy to have a CE back protector for under $80.
I guessing you have a jacket with plenty of space. There's nothing stopping you from using the jacket's back pad and the AXO protector until you're rich. 1+1 might not equal CE2 but...


A back protector is not for slide resistance. That's what your outer shell is for, eg leathers.
Yeah, leathers or not fall off.

[G4L4XY]

That's very wrong and terrible advise.

A back protector is not for slide resistance. That's what your outer shell is for, eg leathers.

My partner hit a car at high speed. Was thrown 20m at 100kph. She had an oxford back protector on. She cracked L5. But L5 was outside of the protected area. There were many other traumatic injuries but due to great gear she survived, just. Just is enough for me. The good outer shell protected her skin. Back protector kept her able to move and slowly get back walking. Quality helmet and boots meant there were no injuries there. Gloves were stuffed but no damage to her hands.

I strongly believe my girl sits next to me each day due to each part of this gear. I wear a a full length Spidi back protector, all the time when on the bike.

Wear the gear for the slide not for the ride.

And reading things like this makes one think a bit more about what might happen and the seriousness of it all.

[nzspokes]

And reading things like this makes one think a bit more about what might happen and the seriousness of it all.

Its as real as it gets. If she had skin loss they would not have been able to keep up with the blood loss which was on the limits as it was.

And the Fire crew, Ambos and Westpac chopper staff are the best there is.

[Erelyes]

I own a back protector myself - but in reality I think there value is almost worthless for the protection they offer.

I'm not sure whether you are saying that they are worthwhile but expensive, or whether you're saying they are pointless.

But given that 11% of riders that crash get spinal injuries (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2002/07000/Spinal_Injuries_in_Motorcycle_Crashes__Patterns.2. aspx) I think their worth is underrated. (consider how many crashes are low speed bins and that 11% starts looking a bit daunting).

Maybe I'm justifying the couple hundy I recently spent on my Kevlar L2K... that said, I don't see anyone selling replacement spines

[nzspokes]

I'm not sure whether you are saying that they are worthwhile but expensive, or whether you're saying they are pointless.

But given that 11% of riders that crash get spinal injuries (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2002/07000/Spinal_Injuries_in_Motorcycle_Crashes__Patterns.2. aspx) I think their worth is underrated. (consider how many crashes are low speed bins and that 11% starts looking a bit daunting).

Maybe I'm justifying the couple hundy I recently spent on my Kevlar L2K... that said, I don't see anyone selling replacement spines

Mine cost $350 I think, and happy to replace it as soon as it looks worn. I like to be able to walk.

[p.dath]

That's very wrong and terrible advise.

A back protector is not for slide resistance. That's what your outer shell is for, eg leathers.

You'll see that one of the reasons that AMCC stipulate back protectors for ART days (which is what this thread is about) is for abrasion resistance in case the leathers separate. So I think you'll find we both agree on the point you have made.


Wear the gear for the slide not for the ride.

Perhaps you meant to say wear it for the impact.

[p.dath]

I'm not sure whether you are saying that they are worthwhile but expensive, or whether you're saying they are pointless.

I'm saying they are almost pointless.


But given that 11% of riders that crash get spinal injuries (http://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/Abstract/2002/07000/Spinal_Injuries_in_Motorcycle_Crashes__Patterns.2. aspx) I think their worth is underrated. (consider how many crashes are low speed bins and that 11% starts looking a bit daunting).

Maybe I'm justifying the couple hundy I recently spent on my Kevlar L2K... that said, I don't see anyone selling replacement spines

My suspicion is that if everyone of those riders had a back protector just under 11% of them would still have spinal injuries. The problem is that back protectors don't offer very much protection. Usually the most you can hope for is to have the seriousness of your injury reduced.

[nzspokes]

I'm saying they are almost pointless.



Its not often these days im stunned on KB. This is one of those times.

[Kickaha]

I'm saying they are almost pointless.
I'm saying they're not, and having been down the track several times including one time I was hit in the back by another bike I wouldn't even think about going on my road bike without one

AMCC may stipulate back protectors for abrasion resistance but that isn't there function

[Kickaha]

My suspicion is that if everyone of those riders had a back protector just under 11% of them would still have spinal injuries. The problem is that back protectors don't offer very much protection.Your suspicion? so you have no hard evidence whatsoever? what do you base this on?

Usually the most you can hope for is to have the seriousness of your injury reduced.
What do you think you wear any protective gear for Muppet

[chasio]

I'm saying they are almost pointless.

My suspicion is that if everyone of those riders had a back protector just under 11% of them would still have spinal injuries. The problem is that back protectors don't offer very much protection. Usually the most you can hope for is to have the seriousness of your injury reduced.

I'm puzzled by the first statement as it seems counter-intuitive. But I know you're an analytical guy and do research stuff. Still, I am struggling. Have you got any studies you could point me to that suggest the same? Ta.

[Milts]

Well the AXO back protector arrived today, I'm impressed by the speed of delivery so well done Torpedo7. It's very light weight, and if it didn't have the CE rating on it I would seriously question if there is any benefit to it at all. Seems like a token gesture really, being as light and flimsy as it is, but as it has the rating I'll take it that an informed group of qualified people would say it offers benefit. From the videos, looks like the REV'IT insert is similarly thin. I guess I just though they would need more padding, as that is usually how these things are done. Once the cashflow recovers I think I'll head on down to MM and have a look and feel at some of the others here have suggested, but for now I'm happy to have a CE back protector for under $80.

Here's a test.

Put it on, and get a mate to wallop you in the back with a hammer.

Now take it off and try again. See how flimsy it seems after that....

[nzspokes]

I'm saying they are almost pointless.



What are your thoughts on helmets?

[Maha]

What are your thoughts on helmets?

You can still die even if you wear one, but the law insists you wear one.

[nzspokes]

You can still die even if you wear one, but the law insists you wear one.

Yes, it makes it easier to clean up the mess.

[p.dath]

Your suspicion? so you have no hard evidence whatsoever? what do you base this on?

What do you think you wear any protective gear for Muppet

Do you have any hard evidence if would have made a difference? I know you don't. I haven't seen any testing, anywhere, that showed anything more than the ability to reduce serious of an injury through the user of a back protector.

I think what usually happens is people would like to think it makes a difference.

[p.dath]

I'm puzzled by the first statement as it seems counter-intuitive. But I know you're an analytical guy and do research stuff. Still, I am struggling. Have you got any studies you could point me to that suggest the same? Ta.

A helmet offers significant protection against impacts. A leather jacket and pants offer significant protection against abrasion. There is lots of evidence to support this.

The problem is there are no studies (that I am aware of) that show back protectors make much difference to the injuries suffered as a result of an impact to the back. It is not because there hasn't been any studies.

So the question back to you is do you know of any studies show how much back protectors help?

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is not that back protectors won't help, because they will, but that people greatly over-estimate the protection that they offer. IMHO, if you have the expectation that they are most likely to reduce bruising and minor fractures, but that they will make almost 0% difference to your life being saved or to prevent your back being broken from a direct impact then probably have a reasonable expectation.

[chasio]

A helmet offers significant protection against impacts. A leather jacket and pants offer significant protection against abrasion. There is lots of evidence to support this.

The problem is there are no studies (that I am aware of) that show back protectors make much difference to the injuries suffered as a result of an impact to the back. It is not because there hasn't been any studies.

So the question back to you is do you know of any studies show how much back protectors help?

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is not that back protectors won't help, because they will, but that people greatly over-estimate the protection that they offer. IMHO, if you have the expectation that they are most likely to reduce bruising and minor fractures, but that they will make almost 0% difference to your life being saved or to prevent your back being broken from a direct impact then probably have a reasonable expectation.

That is my level of expectation (I can hope for more, but luck is probably more important if I ever get to that kind of impact). But then I am not suggesting they are pointless, which is a statement that goes against the run of thinking. Note that I am not saying you are empirically incorrect (since there seems to be little peer-reviewed evidence either way), but would suggest if you want to tell the majority they are wrong it would probably help to have a bit more to back that statement up.

Speaking for myself, I look at it this way: in the absence of evidence to demonstrate that they are either neutral or detrimental, I am happy to place my money with my intuition. It's a wager of sorts and the money stakes are relatively low compared to the potential losses.

[Stevee2]

This thread resulted in me buying a CE2 level protector from Motomail today. :niceone:

Expensive ($200), but if it decreases any potential injury then I think its worth it, and it's nice to have for future track days.

[malcy25]

The problem is there are no studies (that I am aware of) that show back protectors make much difference to the injuries suffered as a result of an impact to the back. It is not because there hasn't been any studies.

So the question back to you is do you know of any studies show how much back protectors help?

I'm guess what I'm trying to say is not that back protectors won't help, because they will, but that people greatly over-estimate the protection that they offer. IMHO, if you have the expectation that they are most likely to reduce bruising and minor fractures, but that they will make almost 0% difference to your life being saved or to prevent your back being broken from a direct impact then probably have a reasonable expectation.

Having been around the traps (tracks!) for longer than I care to remember, back in the days when they were not compulsory, there was obvioulsy grumbling when the rule came in. Now days they are so ingrained into the culture, most regular racers would find it odd in the same way as racing without gloves.

In response to your comments above I may no bones about the fact I am pro good safety gear and doing everything I can to ensure I have the best I can afford and given I have 2 full sets of gear, this can get expensive as I am replacing and down grading my current kit on a regular basis when I upgrade to new kit, pensioning off the oldest stuff. (Ie new boots come, old boots go to second tier, previously 2nd tier are retired), so please take my comments with the good grace they are intended.

The world is not a digital place on/off, yes/no. In this stuff it's very analogue and "reality" is quite often different to "theory". There are multitudes of shades of grey and types, speeds etc of accidents. You could have have a major back injsury accident which is is unrelated to the wearing of a backprotector (Rainey), through to random low sides etc. I think it s more that people under estimate how much they do do.

First up a few questions or suggestions to get your head better around their capabilities:
1) have you ever pitched a bike over the high side? I have, with and without a back protector (both on track). I know what I'd be wearing next time having slid down the road after highsiding at the top of the hill at Puke (with) and mid turn 1 at Puke (without). I walked away from both (they were probably similar speeds too), but I know the with back protector accident as I was sliding was a shit load more comfortable. I get cold shivers about the one without....
2) Can you pick what sort of injury accdient you will have, before you step off ? Will it be one where the back protector will be overcome and give you a permanent injury (ie no point wearing it), or one where you will be over a ripple strip, tmbling etc with multiple lower energy impacts that will give you injuries (ie one where it is in the workable range).
3) Are you happy to remove ALL your body armour from the rest of your riding gear. It might (probably) be CE rated, but if it is just a variation of a back potector. Shoulders, forearms, tail bone, hips, elbows, knees, shins.
4) Ever been and spoken to Eddie Kattenberg? he was a very early adopter of back protectors in NZ. He was sold on it when he crashed at a street meeting and while sliding on his back, rode UP a suburban concrete curb...would you like to try that without one....I wouldn't!!
5) At the next ART day, wander down and see the Ambos. Ask them their thoughts on back protectors. They see the "after" at road accidents and race meetings, most likely lots of on road accidents without them.

There are no guarantees or certainties in any of this stuff, but there is a strong correlation to the wearing of this stuff and the ability to limit injury to low or zero rather than mid to low. ANYTHING which is practical and essentially low cost that reduces injury has to be a good thing (plus the cost over time is so low,, unlike helmets etc). There will never be any gauarantees on this stuff, and it is not a magic bubble. there will be always accidents that far outstrip what they can do, but there is likley to be far more accidents where they are in the workable range.

Come see me at the next ride day! Al;)

[Gremlin]

I'm definitely pro back protectors. Arguably never really had a tumble where it helped, but I'd rather have it in case something happened. Same reason why I wear boots and gloves etc.

I'm simply waiting until people start the same sort of thread, but on chest protectors. To me, just as useful as back protectors, and they're protecting all those vulnerable things like ribs and organs...

[Kickaha]

I'm simply waiting until people start the same sort of thread, but on chest protectors. To me, just as useful as back protectors, and they're protecting all those vulnerable things like ribs and organs...

If I can afford some customer made leathers next year I will be wearing one from then on, I have one friend who may not of died if he'd been wearing one

[busadayz]

This thread resulted in me buying a CE2 level protector from Motomail today. :niceone:

Expensive ($200), but if it decreases any potential injury then I think its worth it, and it's nice to have for future track days.

Would you do the same with a neck brace if it could possibly prevent further damage to your neck?

[malcy25]

Would you do the same with a neck brace if it could possibly prevent further damage to your neck?

Is something I'm interested in looking at further. There are road style ones coming onto the market.

[Hads]

Cause of this thread I decided I would purchase some armour, as I do a lot of open road riding in my commute. I managed to find this SPIDI Armour: http://www.motosport.com/NZ/motorcycle/SPIDI-DEFENDER-BACKCHEST-ARMOR

[Stevee2]

Would you do the same with a neck brace if it could possibly prevent further damage to your neck?

To be fair I've been thinking about getting a back protector for a long time, this thread resulted in me actually getting off my ass and doing something about it (along with the way people are driving on the roads at the moment). I'm a cautious person by nature and the back protector doesn't bother me at all. No different to having a backpack on like when I commute.

Fair point about the neck brace, but they make it too difficult to look around and be aware of surroundings but who knows in a few years they might become the norm. For now I'm happy with my back protector, it makes no change to the way I ride or the comfort/ fit of my jacket.

Gear is a personal choice. Personally I am horrified at people driving in short, t-shirt and jandals but they are well within their rights to and who am I to tell them not to.

[nzspokes]

Personally I am horrified at people driving in short, t-shirt and jandals but they are well within their rights to and who am I to tell them not to.

What are you supposed to wear when driving? I will be driving to the supermarket wearing exactly that. :eek5:

Well at least I have clothes on.

[Stevee2]

Haha I'm sure there would be a few accidents! Obviously I mean wearing gear vs no gear. But as I say, they can do what they want!

[p.dath]

Cause of this thread I decided I would purchase some armour, as I do a lot of open road riding in my commute. I managed to find this SPIDI Armour: http://www.motosport.com/NZ/motorcycle/SPIDI-DEFENDER-BACKCHEST-ARMOR

That looks like a comprehensive system of protection for the upper body.

[duckaddict]

I'll probably get a Forcefield L2k soon, you can get it at your local shop RRP $245

Which local shop in Auckland?

[Jayman]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!

[chasio]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!

Bugger. Hope the bike fixes up OK and glad to hear you are intact.

Assuming you were in Group 1, the other lesson learned might be to pay attention to the brief? I can't imagine they'd have skipped the cold tyres warning...

[sil3nt]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!Where did you lowside?

I was there on friday for the playday. A very hot day for it. There was more grip than I was brave enough to use! If I ever felt like I was going to lowside it would have been turn two. A few different surfaces there :crazy:

[SPP]

.. Had the ART day today...

Was that your repsol 250 lapping on the trailer of shame? Seemed like you took it with good humour :)

[xen]

Which local shop in Auckland?

motoone.co.nz (http://motoone.co.nz)can get them in

[quickbuck]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!
Shame about the bin....
Now you will know that $500 worth of tyres (okay, can be a little less for a 250) is naff all compared to the cost of repairs of bike and gear.
Oh well, lesson learnt.

Good on you for posting this, so really you do not deserve and rubbish....
HD can be pretty unforgiving..... and you have identified the problem.

Talk to Billy at www.racefairings.co.nz if you need anything for the CBR. He might have something laying around (He races one).
OR, just ask him for Fibreglass fairings and turn it into a Track Bike/ Minilite Race bike.... ;)

[Hads]

Or get some fairings that aren't Honda branded from here:

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Shop/SpareParts

[nzspokes]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!

Oh bugger, that was you. I did see the bike parked up but the trailer didnt come past us. Were you group 2?

[ckai]

So as I started this thread a little while ago, asking for advise about back protectors for an ART day (and thanks to all that contributed), I thought I would give a little update that seems relevant.

Had the ART day today. Went out and got a feel for the track over 6-7 laps, sat down for some theory for a while, then back out on the track and whoop... low-sided it and slid maybe 30 meters on my back.

Funny thing was, while sliding I realised just how much that thin little thing was actually doing (that was the thought going through my mind!). The slide was very comfortable, no complaints from me at all. Wish I could say the same for the bike :(

Well, lesson learnt, get new tyres, warm them up properly, and back protectors (as well as all the other gear) are worth the effort!

Bugger dude. At least you know back protectors aren't all piss and wind like some think. Kinda ironic really looking into them so much and using them first hand :)

I think this is one of the things I'd be annoyed about the most, binning at a training day at the start of the day. I suppose you can still go to the classes but it ain't the same as putting it into practice.

The last training day I went to (different school), the class was small and I was very much the slowest. The general consensus amongst all of them was that they rode quite sedately at the start of the day and pushed more at the end so they would get the most out of it. Not saying you were pushing but it was interesting coming from people that either raced or had dedicated track bikes they weren't afraid to drop.

[Jayman]

Assuming you were in Group 1, the other lesson learned might be to pay attention to the brief? I can't imagine they'd have skipped the cold tyres warning...

I was in group 2, and there was a brief on warming the tyres, which I did on the first session (also didn't know the track so was going slowly anyway). Seems I let my enthusiasm get the better of me and forgot about the cold tyres thing (which I've known about for years, just never had to put in practice)

[Jayman]

Where did you lowside?

On turn 6. It's an easy corner (for my level anyway). I went in okay and just gradually accelerated as I went though, no sudden movements or anything, then it just let go. I was really surprised at how easy that was to do. And shocked as I must have come very close to doing this on the open road at times - a bit scary

[Jayman]

Was that your repsol 250 lapping on the trailer of shame? Seemed like you took it with good humour :)
Yeah that was me... well no point getting too upset about it, damage is done!


Shame about the bin....
Talk to Billy at www.racefairings.co.nz if you need anything for the CBR. He might have something laying around (He races one).
OR, just ask him for Fibreglass fairings and turn it into a Track Bike/ Minilite Race bike.... ;)

Or get some fairings that aren't Honda branded from here:

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Shop/SpareParts
Thanks, will def need to start looking for new fairings, none of them survived!


Oh bugger, that was you. I did see the bike parked up but the trailer didnt come past us. Were you group 2?
Yeah, group two. I think most people saw the bike parked up :(


Bugger dude. At least you know back protectors aren't all piss and wind like some think. Kinda ironic really looking into them so much and using them first hand :)

I think this is one of the things I'd be annoyed about the most, binning at a training day at the start of the day. I suppose you can still go to the classes but it ain't the same as putting it into practice.

The last training day I went to (different school), the class was small and I was very much the slowest. The general consensus amongst all of them was that they rode quite sedately at the start of the day and pushed more at the end so they would get the most out of it. Not saying you were pushing but it was interesting coming from people that either raced or had dedicated track bikes they weren't afraid to drop.
Yeah coming off early was gutting. I still attended the classes, but was really looking forward to some personal tuition. I think I was pushing it a bit, maybe too much (well, clearly too much) but I rode within my limits and maintained control the whole time. WIll def be more careful in the future!

Incidentally, anyone know if there is a minimum amount of fairing that you can have on a road-legal bike? thinking the tail is essential, everything else optional?

[quickbuck]

Ah... The ol slide in T6/10... Believe it or not you would have been doing over 100k through there... Give or take. No wonder the fairings took a Hammering.... Yup, testimony for the Back Production.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[ckai]

Incidentally, anyone know if there is a minimum amount of fairing that you can have on a road-legal bike? thinking the tail is essential, everything else optional?

I don't think you need any fairings. Look at naked bikes. The only reason they have a little is purely cosmetics. I could be wrong of course. As long as you have head and tail light your sweet. Plastics don't come into a warrant.

[Quasievil]

I haven't seen any back protectors that would offer serious abrasion resistance. Most seem to be made from plastic that looks like it would wear very quickly. So failing that, the simple plastic back protectors with inter-locking plates to prevent you being bent backwards seem a reasonable option.


I own a back protector myself - but in reality I think there value is almost worthless for the protection they offer.

Just curious, when did you turn stupid ?

[haydes55]

I don't think you need any fairings. Look at naked bikes. The only reason they have a little is purely cosmetics. I could be wrong of course. As long as you have head and tail light your sweet. Plastics don't come into a warrant.





As I understand, the only necessary fairings/guards are the front fender and the rear tire must be covered, but I think the tail section classes as covering the rear tire. So huggers aren't a necessity. The rest are cosmetic.

Not 100% about the rear tire though. I think it should just be covered enough that spray from water can't project off the tire and hit the rider.

[SPP]

Yeah that was me... well no point getting too upset about it, damage is done!

That's the one, no point packing a sad. It happened and lessons learned. Nice one.

[jellywrestler]

Hi all, just about to book myself an ART day and need to get a back protector. Looking on trademe and they mostly around $30, which seems too cheap. Looking at shop websites and they seem to start at $200+, which is a mighty jump in price.

I was wondering if anyone knew if the trademe ones were as crap as their price suggests, or if they are actually pretty solid? Beyond that, any other suggestions for what to get?

Thanks in advance!
what's a broken back worth to ya in comparison?

[quickbuck]

what's a broken back worth to ya in comparison?




Have a read of the whole thread Spyda, sounds like he made a great choice....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[p.dath]

Sorry to hear about your accident. I'm a big fan of frame sliders. When you have some spare cash you should check them out. I quite like the "Rapid Art" ones, as they are made in NZ (they call them skid knobs):
http://rapidartnz.com/

Only good for low speed spills. Saves a lot of fairing damage, usually.