TPP. Good or bad?

[awa355]

Nothing I have read about this Trans Pacific Partnership sounds good to me. Seems like every article I have read appears to open our sovereignty to the whims of American corporations. The last paragraph in particular concerns me.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11170282

What do you think?

[mashman]

Fuck 'em all. Bring it on. Screw the differences, just sign up to it and let's get the show on the road.

[Zedder]

Fuck 'em all. Bring it on. Screw the differences, just sign up to it and let's get the show on the road.

Who the hell are you and what have you done with mashman?

[SPman]

Read the current state of discussion for yourself..

https://wikileaks.org/tpp/pressrelease.html

https://wikileaks.org/tpp/static/pdf/Wikileaks-secret-TPP-treaty-IP-chapter.pdf


The 95-page, 30,000-word IP Chapter lays out provisions for instituting a far-reaching, transnational legal and enforcement regime, modifying or replacing existing laws in TPP member states. The Chapter’s subsections include agreements relating to patents (who may produce goods or drugs), copyright (who may transmit information), trademarks (who may describe information or goods as authentic) and industrial design.
The longest section of the Chapter – ’Enforcement’ – is devoted to detailing new policing measures, with far-reaching implications for individual rights, civil liberties, publishers, internet service providers and internet privacy, as well as for the creative, intellectual, biological and environmental commons. Particular measures proposed include supranational litigation tribunals to which sovereign national courts are expected to defer, but which have no human rights safeguards. The TPP IP Chapter states that these courts can conduct hearings with secret evidence. The IP Chapter also replicates many of the surveillance and enforcement provisions from the shelved SOPA and ACTA treaties.



It's a way for the Corporations to take on the powers of a State and impose their requirements, to the detriment of all other countries internal laws.

[carbonhed]

Well Phil Goff, that notorious National Party swine and corporate lickspittle, thinks NZ will benefit more than most.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11170345

[Akzle]

i'm highly concerned.


that anyone wastes time discussing what the fucking government does. go get some guns and bullets, get back to me and we can arrange our our little "sans-pacific-partenership" maneuver

[Thaeos]

Bad, very bad. How do we stop it?

[mashman]

Who the hell are you and what have you done with mashman?

Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves. Or indeed legislation and an agreement to do what? Fix "things"? Why there is so much focus on such banal policy is beyond me.

[mashman]

Well Phil Goff, that notorious National Party swine and corporate lickspittle, thinks NZ will benefit more than most.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11170345

Maybe his promotion relies on a positive result.

[SPman]

The TTIP is similar - here's monbiot's take on it

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/02/managing-transparency/


The Commission insists that its Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership should include a toxic mechanism called investor-state dispute settlement. Where this has been forced into other trade agreements, it has allowed big corporations to sue governments before secretive arbitration panels composed of corporate lawyers, which bypass domestic courts and override the will of parliaments
This mechanism could threaten almost any means by which governments might seek to defend their citizens or protect the natural world. Already it is being used by mining companies to sue governments trying to keep them out of protected areas; by banks fighting financial regulation; by a nuclear company contesting Germany’s decision to switch off atomic power. After a big political fight we’ve now been promised plain packaging for cigarettes. But it could be nixed by an offshore arbitration panel. The tobacco company Philip Morris is currently suing Australia through the same mechanism in another treaty.

[mashman]

The TTIP is similar - here's monbiot's take on it

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/02/managing-transparency/

Turning the screw eh. At least Monsanto will be allowed compensation for country's denying their seeds. Especially if you're already importing some of their other products. Still, it'll make room for lots of lawyers and that'll get the average wage figures up.

[Akzle]

Some say a comet will fall from the sky. Followed by meteor showers and tidal waves.
what about dumbfounded dipshits?
...legislation and an agreement...banal policy..

oh there they are!

[Berries]

What do you think?
I wouldn't buy any.

[Scuba_Steve]

Unless I've missed it somewhere?

The TPP or Trans Pacific Partnership. A agreement "so good" for the pacific it has to be kept a secret from it's people.
In a nutshell what it provides is the ability for American companies to sue Govts if they do something not good for their shareholders i.e. banning fag companies from advertising
The ability for American corporations to patent troll, set prices & control the drugs trade. It puts corporations above the people & even the Govts.
It will also see the rise of retro fitted North Korean style interwebs censorship & control

There is almost nothing good contained within the TPP, it is a agreement to let the corporations have unopposed free reign within the Pacific.
For us bikers it'll probably see Harley Davidson forcing their tractors upon us all & laws banning or limiting Jappas/Euro's (I might be exaggerating this part a bit, but the old American "protection of industry" isn't beyond plausible)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t31/s720x720/1518832_10152582800965884_1918183977_o.png

[SMOKEU]

For us bikers it'll probably see Harley Davidson forcing their tractors upon us all & laws banning or limiting Jappas/Euro's (I might be exaggerating this part a bit, but the old American "protection of industry" isn't beyond plausible)


Sounds like what Apple is doing with their products.

[mashman]

I wish they'd hurry up and pass it. Can't wait for whoever the PM is to explain to the people that several billion $ has been given to corporations because the govt accidentally (tui) broke a rule that the people aren't allowed to examine.

[husaberg]

And why pharmac isn't allowed generic meds...........

I've mentioned it before
I guess my tin foil hat was blocking the reception for people.........:lol:

[mashman]

And why pharmac isn't allowed generic meds...........

I've mentioned it before
I guess my tin foil hat was blocking the reception for people.........:lol:

Probably just ignoring you because them PM sending folk said to :D.

[husaberg]

Probably just ignoring you because them PM sending folk said to :D.

OH you could be right, i wonder if there is more fish in the sea.............

[mashman]

OH you could be right, i wonder if there is more fish in the sea.............

Meh, it's polluted, who cares.

[Akzle]

OH you could be right, i wonder if there is more fish in the sea.............

yes but theyre radioactive.

[husaberg]

Meh, it's polluted, who cares.

Is it? I think everyone is happy with it otherwise people would not swim in it,I want to know why you think it is ( this does not mean i wont know it is when you show me it is, As i will claim to only be interested in your thought process):shifty::laugh:

[Akzle]

Is it? I think everyone is happy with it otherwise people would not swim in it,I want to know why you think it is ( this does not mean i wont know it is when you show me it is, As i will claim to only be interested in your thought process):shifty::laugh:

google picture, the great pacific rubbish dump.

[mashman]

Is it? I think everyone is happy with it otherwise people would not swim in it,I want to know why you think it is ( this does not mean i wont know it is when you show me it is, As i will claim to only be interested in your thought process):shifty::laugh:

North Pacific Ocean Gayre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch)... I'll wait to be told what I should think, I shouldn't have spoken out of turn.

Wonder who owns the Ocean.

[Scuba_Steve]

North Pacific Ocean Gayre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch)... I'll wait to be told what I should think, I shouldn't have spoken out of turn.

Wonder who owns the Ocean.

Does it matter? Nestlé soon will regardless I'm sure

[Akzle]

Wonder who owns the Ocean.

jews claim it.
Oil drilling ok. Eating whale not. Corporate and pharma waste dumping ok. Catching 9 snapper not. Testing military shit ok. Sailing without a licence not....

[mashman]

Does it matter? Nestlé soon will regardless I'm sure

It will do is the public demand that they clean it up. I thought nestle were only after fresh water?

[ellipsis]

Wonder who owns the Ocean.

...i got it as a birthday present a while ago...i tried to return it...it was past being damp, it was really wet, no use to me...

[Scuba_Steve]

It will do is the public demand that they clean it up. I thought nestle were only after fresh water?

I think they're after anything with money in it TBH & if they're able to buy the worlds fish supply, they'll buy the worlds fish supply

[awa355]

Solution to sea pollution?? Quite simple really

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/Untitledpicture-3.png

[mashman]

...i got it as a birthday present a while ago...i tried to return it...it was past being damp, it was really wet, no use to me...

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... some cunt left it out in the rain eh. I bet it was the courier.


I think they're after anything with money in it TBH & if they're able to buy the worlds fish supply, they'll buy the worlds fish supply

No, No, NO... say it ain't so.

[mashman]

""Anything worthwhile in life, as any adult with adult experience knows, when you're trying to get people to shift positions or agree on something which they're not comfortable with, requires discretion," said Groser."
(http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/calls-tpp-transparency-code-destroying-232800586.html)
Discretion? You mean you don't tell them a thing. Not exactly what I call shifting positions or agreeing on something. I certainly wouldn't class him as an adult, especially one with any experience of any noteworthiness... more like yer typical slimey prick.

[Akzle]

it's easier to fool people than to convince them they've been fooled.

[Scuba_Steve]

For those ignorant of the TPP here's a quick run down vid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwqMp1ykbW8

[mashman]

For those ignorant of the TPP here's a quick run down vid

Let it come. Too many people don't care and if the only way for them to wake themselves up is to suffer, then fuck 'em, let 'em have it their own way.

[Akzle]

Let it come. Too many people don't care and if the only way for them to wake themselves up is to suffer, then fuck 'em, let 'em have it their own way.

sweet jesus mashy. Youre becoming a cynical (young, good looking, thoroughly delightful) chap, like me.

[mashman]

sweet jesus mashy. Youre becoming a cynical (young, good looking, thoroughly delightful) chap, like me.

You know I'm still fresh of that boat. I couldn't ever get so lucky.

"Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill"