Balanced reporting?

[Ulsterkiwi]

Anyone seen this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9537671/Bikers-all-over-road-before-fatal-collision

[Padmei]

You obviously know more- give us the details?

[nerrrd]

Anyone seen this?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9537671/Bikers-all-over-road-before-fatal-collision

Yeah I read it this morning. Usual 'stuff'. Hey at least they asked some motorcyclists to contribute this time to get the other side of the story. And sadly a fair few of us ride like dicks sometimes, especially in groups. I guess you don't know for sure what happened unless you were there - but if you fail to take a corner, it's hard to blame anyone else for that.

Anyway, condolences to the family.

I remember reading an article a while ago about some poor guy taken out by a truck turning right across his path...the whole slant of the article was it was the motorcyclist's fault because he failed to stop when the truck was turning in front of him - which from a defensive driving standpoint I guess is true, but surely the truckie was at fault since he/she failed to make sure that the lane was clear before turning across it? I know nothing about driving trucks though, I imagine once they're underway it's hard to stop them.

[Katman]

Sounds about right.

[Katman]

I remember reading an article a while ago about some poor guy taken out by a truck turning right across his path...the whole slant of the article was it was the motorcyclist's fault because he failed to stop when the truck was turning in front of him - which from a defensive driving standpoint I guess is true, but surely the truckie was at fault since he/she failed to make sure that the lane was clear before turning across it?

Well that all depends on what speed the motorcycle was doing.

[Fatjim]

Not having first hand knowledge, but knowing to some extent the rider I was not impressed by that article. I thought it was poor taste to make subjectinve comment and speculate on someones death.

FYI, I wrote this to the editor of the Dom this morning.

I have never written to an editor before in my life. I don’t consider myself qualified on many subjects, so when the press “comments” on a subject I have first or reliable second hand knowledge of I am usually aghast at the inaccuracies, and the agendas on display.

For a truck driver to comment on motorcyclists riding dangerously on the Rimutukas is of the highest level of hypocrisy imaginable. If it were not for the economic benefits of allowing trucks on that road, they would be banned. Trucks are more responsible for death, suffering, and damage to property on that road by a factor of ten than other motorists are, and I include motorcyclists.

As a regular user of this road, the number of times I have felt my life was put in imminent danger by the actions of truck drivers requiring me to take action to avoid an accident, I have lost count. From huge trucks oncoming on my side of the road, regardless of corners or not, to deposits of animal waste or much worse diesel, I have no doubt I am lucky to be alive.

For a truckie to comment on something he obviously knows nothing about, the safety of others driving/riding, make connection to another mans death like this, and for your paper to promote this I find disgusting, and I don’t use that word lightly. I literally find it disgusting, and I am not one of those my generation who are serially offended by others actions.

Further, before your paper goes on a rant about risk etc of motorcycling, remember we are defined and molded by what we do. The man who died on the hill, was in part defined by motorcycling. Many who knew him, would not have known him but for the fact that he was a motorcyclist. And I bet none of those who met him through motorcycling wished he had never taken it up. I can imagine there are a lot of families of traffic officers who can’t say the same.

If you wish to use any part of this email, please attribute to “James, from Upper Hutt”.

[R650R]

Yes that's fine, their just reporting what witnesses said that were willing to speak to media and also spoke to BRONZ to get another perspective.
This is the danger of group riding, you get associated by the worst behaviour of those in the group, be it a biker pack, truck convoy or one of those 'car enthusiast' line ups.
If I was with that group I'd be more worried about them being witnesses than speaking to the media.
This is why when a mate of mine rode like an idiot last xmas and was overtaking on double yellows I let him go and pretended I wasn't with him. Told him to sort his crap out or find someone else to ride with.
Those last bunch of cars you passed are going to be the first witnesses on any scene that happens whether its your fault or not.

[PrincessBandit]

The hill is very unforgiving and any large group traversing it would surely be aware of the hazards. Unfortunately the larger the group the greater the likelihood of unpredictable (or predictable, but unwise) behaviour; those hazards are going to be compounded.

[R650R]

...For a truck driver to comment on motorcyclists riding dangerously on the Rimutukas is of the highest level of hypocrisy imaginable...

Oh dear I hope you haven't put a stamp on that already... You'd be surprised how many truckers are also bikers. Wellington is a hellhole zone of heavy CVIU enforcement, most truckers are extra careful approaching there and the Rimutakas is one of those places where you don't want to be sniffing the guardrail I mean tinfoil fence for any reason. I don't think the numbers would stack up in favour of you argument either. Sure there's been a few high profile truck crashes on that road but it tends to get reported on more than bike and car crashes due to the spectacular nature of the event.

[SMOKEU]

but if you fail to take a corner, it's hard to blame anyone else for that.


Unless the road had a pot hole, or gravel, or diesel, or animal excrement, or any other slippery substance(s). The rider could also have swerved to avoid foreign objects on the road.

[Madness]

http://www.kenn.com/images/bs_rampant_speculation.jpg

[James Deuce]

As a good friend said to me this morning in regard to this accident, "Honestly its like family violence… Everyone knows whats going on but if you say anything you are a nark…"

There's layers of tragedy in this accident, but it was completely avoidable. My wife commutes to work in the Hutt from Greytown. Wednesday and Thursday nights in Summer give both her and me the shits. She doesn't want to kill someone I might know when she doesn't have the room to get out of the way and I don't want her hurt by 300kg of rider and bike. It is safer driving in Winter gales with snow and slips and shit.

Fatjim, your loyalty to your friend is commendable, but in this instance he got it badly wrong and paid the ultimate price. It didn't need to happen, especially on the weekly race to the pub ride. After everything he'd been through, dying on or off a bike sure as hell wasn't worth it.

[Fatjim]

Oh dear I hope you haven't put a stamp on that already... You'd be surprised how many truckers are also bikers. Wellington is a hellhole zone of heavy CVIU enforcement, most truckers are extra careful approaching there and the Rimutakas is one of those places where you don't want to be sniffing the guardrail I mean tinfoil fence for any reason. I don't think the numbers would stack up in favour of you argument either. Sure there's been a few high profile truck crashes on that road but it tends to get reported on more than bike and car crashes due to the spectacular nature of the event.

Mate, the most dangerous part of the Rimutukas as far as I have experienced is the surface conditions. Apart form a few places, its actually pretty good at the moment. However, you add Deisel to that, and all bets are off. I'm not saying what caused this accident, I don't know. I'm just saying that I know of a LOT of motorcyclists who have come off because of deisel spills, and are lucky to be alive, and skill, speed or whatever have no part in deciding whether you stay up, or on your side of the road or not. When truck drivers comment on how dangerous motocyclist are riding on the Rimutukas, then I see red.

[Katman]

Mate, the most dangerous part of the Rimutukas as far as I have experienced is the surface conditions. Apart form a few places, its actually pretty good at the moment. However, you add Deisel to that, and all bets are off. I'm not saying what caused this accident, I don't know. I'm just saying that I know of a LOT of motorcyclists who have come off because of deisel spills, and are lucky to be alive, and skill, speed or whatever have no part in deciding whether you stay up, or on your side of the road or not. When truck drivers comment on how dangerous motocyclist are riding on the Rimutukas, then I see red.

Doesn't sound like a very suitable road to be treating as a racetrack then.

[Fatjim]

As a good friend said to me this morning in regard to this accident, "Honestly its like family violence… Everyone knows whats going on but if you say anything you are a nark…"

There's layers of tragedy in this accident, but it was completely avoidable. My wife commutes to work in the Hutt from Greytown. Wednesday and Thursday nights in Summer give both her and me the shits. She doesn't want to kill someone I might know when she doesn't have the room to get out of the way and I don't want her hurt by 300kg of rider and bike. It is safer driving in Winter gales with snow and slips and shit.

Fatjim, your loyalty to your friend is commendable, but in this instance he got it badly wrong and paid the ultimate price. It didn't need to happen, especially on the weekly race to the pub ride. After everything he'd been through, dying on or off a bike sure as hell wasn't worth it.

Jim, I won't argue with you. I don't want this to turn into an arguement over this particular accident which I have no knowledge about. It was a general moan on the hypocrosy.

But I stand by the fact you wouldn't have not wanted him to ever take up motorcycling.

[Ulsterkiwi]

You obviously know more- give us the details?

actually I don't, I read the article which used emotive phrases like 'As the men descended the hill, they had four near-misses with speeding motorcyclists on "high-powered performance bikes". '
I pause when I see people describe things they may not be qualified to. Its like those who get upset about hunters using "high powered performance rifles" perhaps they would be happier if hunters used low powered under performing rifles?

I wondered how balanced the report was and asked if anyone else had seen it. Otherwise I would have said something like: 'I know much more about this, let me explain to you what really happened.'

[nerrrd]

Unless the road had a pot hole, or gravel, or diesel, or animal excrement, or any other slippery substance(s). The rider could also have swerved to avoid foreign objects on the road.

Or the car that was overtaking me on a blind corner a while back only to find a truck coming the other way, then happily pushed me out of the way getting back on the right side of the road. If I hadn't managed to stand the bike up and stay wide I guess I would have "failed to take the corner."

Point taken about speculation.

[Paul in NZ]

Um... It does not say he was a truck driver but rather that he was towing a car trailer with a workmate... Personally I really dislike car trailers as they can be all over the show...

A group of 60 Bikes trying to get through traffic on that road is a memorable event... Even if its just 10 of the 60...

End of the day if we as a group are defined as 'motorcyclists' (ie people that regularly ride motorcycles) and that group has an accident rate of X then at some point one of us is going to pay the ultimate price regardless of blame. Given that within the motorcyclists group, some people regularly reside at the percieved 'risky' end of the spectrum the amazing thing is in fact that this sort of thing does not happen more often. Perhaps something that simply looks risky is not actually as risky as it looks??

However - my only comment is that on the times I've been over the hill lately - while the road is getting safer on the Wellington side, there are less places to pass legally, there seems to be a lot more traffic to pass and I am beginning to dislike travelling over it. If Vicki and I are in the car or two up on a bike we always leave room for others to pass should they desire but I have simply lost count of the number of times we have had to take active intervention to avoid an accident from behind or in front and always within our safety zone... It makes me nervous going over there...

End of the day. its a terribly bad thing at any time of the year but especially so around Christmas. RIP.

[Paul in NZ]

actually I don't, I read the article which used emotive phrases like 'As the men descended the hill, they had four near-misses with speeding motorcyclists on "high-powered performance bikes". '
I pause when I see people describe things they may not be qualified to. Its like those who get upset about hunters using "high powered performance rifles" perhaps they would be happier if hunters used low powered under performing rifles?

I wondered how balanced the report was and asked if anyone else had seen it. Otherwise I would have said something like: 'I know much more about this, let me explain to you what really happened.'

Since they were there - I'd suggest that they were in some part qualified to talk about near misses bit which really is the important part.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Since they were there - I'd suggesat that they were in some part qualified to talk about near misses bit which really is the important part.

I agree, an important part is these guys reported near misses prior to the actual accident, the difficulty is what actually gets attention is the "high-powered performance bikes" part of the quote, in my opinion this was placed in quotes to emphasize and comment more than anything else. Craftily by using a quote they get to comment. At the end of the day what difference does it make if the guy was on an Hyabusa or a GN125? Either he made a mistake or he didn't.

I have no clue what happened, I wasn't there, but interestingly the guys in their truck and trailer did not actually witness the accident either yet their story is the basis of the article. I have to declare a sensitivity to the gap-filling journalists do, having seen this done to myself and my family in previous times. In my line of work I cannot make statements or claims without solid evidence to substantiate them, speculation is not tolerated, journalists are not subject to those constraints and that irks me.

Anyway, the article appears to be commenting in places rather than reporting, that is questionable, what is actually important is that a man is dead and that, is a tragedy.

[Paul in NZ]

Anyway, the article appears to be commenting in places rather than reporting, that is questionable, what is actually important is that a man is dead and that, is a tragedy.

I dont think they were in a truck... Yes - commentry in places but its to provide context. It makes a difference if they were on high powered sports bikes because you cannot indulge in certain behaviours on a GN250 and its likely that these guys actually got a really close look at the bikes.. Again they are probably qualified to comment...

Whats important is that there was a death. And as always these events affect a wide circle. Its a terrible terrible thing to witness and I really feel for those that were there. All I can say is please take care out there..

[Ulsterkiwi]

.... because you cannot indulge in certain behaviours on a GN250...

I think the article was inferring this unfortunate guy was "indulging in certain behaviours" and it got him killed. Perhaps we need to be careful how we express these things.

[imdying]

Seemed ok... the gist was some cocksucker riding like a cocksucker wrote himself off, thankfully not taking out somebody else in the process.

[PrincessBandit]

Seemed ok... the gist was some cocksucker riding like a cocksucker wrote himself off, thankfully not taking out somebody else in the process.

I'll assume your tongue is in your (butt)cheek there.
The fact is he might not have been riding like a cock. Who knows - maybe he had to alter his line due to the actions of another bike in the group?

Only those who were there will really know, and sometimes these things happen so quickly that even those present might not all agree on what actually went down. If there was any degree of stupidity occurring leading up to the event then it's no wonder we, as a road using group, are not viewed kindly or sympathetically.

[imdying]

Nup, no tongue in cheek. We all know what goes on, group rides and sports bikes are nothing new. That article did not seem unbalanced.

[jellywrestler]

Doesn't sound like a very suitable road to be treating as a racetrack then.

so you're saying there are some? Shit that goes against your usual mandate.

[jellywrestler]

For a truck driver to comment on motorcyclists riding dangerously on the Rimutukas is of the highest level of hypocrisy imaginable. If it were not for the economic benefits of allowing trucks on that road, they would be banned. Trucks are more responsible for death, suffering, and damage to property on that road by a factor of ten than other motorists are, and I include motorcyclists.

the simple fact is some of these clowns treat the rimutakas and other roads on their regular rides like they're races with often complete disregard to other road users. i've been riding for years and are still amazed with the standards these people think are acceptable.
Truckies are doing there job and often the road is too large to accomadate them so one always has to ride the hill knowing theree could be one around the corner, or a queue of cars getting held up by one, that's the way it is.
Tough someone getting wiped out, i'm surprised we dont have more.
Oh, and is it compulsary to remove all your indicator bulbs when you go on these rides?

[Katman]

so you're saying there are some? Shit that goes against your usual mandate.

Come on Spyda - surely you can recognise the facetious nature of my comment.

[James Deuce]

But I stand by the fact you wouldn't have not wanted him to ever take up motorcycling.

No, and that was definitely a positive about the last 10 years.

[Paul in NZ]

I think the article was inferring this unfortunate guy was "indulging in certain behaviours" and it got him killed. Perhaps we need to be careful how we express these things.

Possibly true - we also need to be careful how we ride... The world is generally an unforgiving place...

End of the day, while it was an unkind (to motorcyclists) article someone died. And that is very sad.... I also feel for the others involved. A horrific experience.

[caspernz]

Nothing much wrong with that article. As both a trucker and a biker, having spent five years on the hill hauling fuel across for Shell...the behaviour described could be seen several weeknights and routinely on Sunday mornings.

Always used to crack me up how I could keep 20 metres of truck and trailer on my side of the centreline, both ways, and a fast bike needed almost the whole road...

Shame to hear a fellow biker has died, but heck, group rides on certain nights of the week are known for certain behaviour. Simple as that.

Truckers on the hill are by no means perfect, but bikers break far more of the rules of the road going across that entertaining stretch of tarmac.

Katman made a smart comment, yet it's on the mark.

My thoughts are with the family of the fella who passed away.

[MD]

I don't who died but how sad for their family and friends at this time of year. So many families must dread Christmas as a time someone loved died, instead of looking forward to Christmas as we should do.

I wasn't there but I suspect from above posts it was someone known and no doubt dear to many of us Wellington riders. R.I.P.

No matter where the fault lied and where the blame goes, it all goes down badly for motorcycling and that article doesn't help our cause. I don't think we are in any position to criticise the Media or the Truckie for stating what he observed. The comment about a Rider getting aggressive towards the bystander just makes us look even worse. I guess the public has such a low opinion of motorcyclists it can't sink much lower. Apart from spilling fuel and crap on the road (all to often!) I have not encountered bad truck behaviour in many years of riding that hill.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have just read on the Wellington Riders Facebook page that the aggression displayed was coming from motorists who had stopped, this is what the guy said whilst writing to the journalist who wrote the article....


The motorcyclists at the scene were not aggressive towards anyone, especially as they were shocked at what had just happened, they were however receiving abuse from some drivers who were saying "fucking motorcyclists" until they were informed he had died at which point they fell silent.

like anything I guess, remembering an event is a case of perspective.

[Katman]

....like anything I guess, remembering an event is a case of perspective.

Either way, it ain't going to bring a shine to a turd.

[nzmikey]

Yes what has happened is shit but to be honest ... unless you were there Shut the Fuck up as you prob dont know what happened ... other than the outcome .

[Katman]

Yes what has happened is shit but to be honest ... unless you were there Shut the Fuck up as you prob dont know what happened ... other than the outcome .

Plenty of us know the manner in which the Wellington Riders crew conduct their 'rides' over the Rimutakas though.

[MSTRS]

Yes what has happened is shit but to be honest ... unless you were there Shut the Fuck up as you prob dont know what happened ... other than the outcome .

What this man said.

[MSTRS]

Plenty of us know the manner in which the Wellington Riders crew conduct their 'rides' over the Rimutakas though.

Perhaps, but do you know for a fact that this particular rider was part of the 'crew'? Or was he just out for a ride and not misbehaving at all?
Witness reports say some 60-odd riders ... how the fuck would that guy know how many and if all were riding like cocks. And said witness came upon the scene after having had 'a lot' of bikes go by him in the other direction. Meaning the rider who crashed was well behind them. So witness knows said rider was being an idiot, does he?
Just saying...I wasn't there.
The other thing is - as riders, we do things that motorists PERCEIVE as dangerous, when in fact said things can be quite safe. Or not.
Again, just saying...

[Fatjim]

Plenty of us know the manner in which the Wellington Riders crew conduct their 'rides' over the Rimutakas though.

And that sir, is why you are considered the biggest arsehole on this site by many.

[Katman]

Perhaps, but do you know for a fact that this particular rider was part of the 'crew'? Or was he just out for a ride and not misbehaving at all?


If you read the article carefully John you'll see that it says very little about the conduct of the rider who died - but plenty about the conduct of the large group of riders.

My comments are directed at the actions of the group rather than the individual.

[imdying]

And that sir, is why you are considered the biggest arsehole on this site by many.

Quite... telling it how it is... how very arseholery of him :rolleyes:

[MSTRS]

My comments are directed at the actions of the group rather than the individual.

Says you!
Those reading your comments understand them to be aimed somewhere else entirely. = besmirching by innuendo.

[Katman]

Says you!
Those reading your comments understand them to be aimed somewhere else entirely. = besmirching by innuendo.

Fuck off John. Don't go putting words in my mouth.

[MSTRS]

Fuck off John. Don't go putting words in my mouth.

I don't need to. And this is not the place for your bullshit.

[Katman]

I don't need to. And this is not the place for your bullshit.

Really? This thread is about an article posted on Stuff.

If you don't like my contribution to thread, tough fucking shit.

[Madness]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dTAAsCNK7RA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Deja-vu, anyone?

[James Deuce]

All over again.

[jellywrestler]

Come on Spyda - surely you can recognise the facetious nature of my comment.

likewise Steve....

[mashman]

My condolences to the family and friends of the rider. R.I.P. dude

[Deano]

The good old internet, where two bit opinions could be read by the grieving family. Would you say these things to their face ? Na. :tugger:

But it is what it is eh.

[carbonhed]

The good old internet, where two bit opinions could be read by the grieving family. Would you say these things to their face ? Na. :tugger:

But it is what it is eh.

Amen to that!

All the usual douchebags.

[GingerMidget]

The situation sucks.

IMO the only details that needed to be made public were two vehicles collided, one motorist was killed and further details will be released if appropriate. None of the emotionally charged bollocks that generally gets reported when one vehicle has more or less than four wheels.

Though, in saying. It works rather well for building traffic through an otherwise mediocre 'news' site.

[pzkpfw]

... IMO the only details that needed to be made public were two vehicles collided, ...

How about details that might help prevent recurrence?

[motor_mayhem]

The situation sucks.

IMO the only details that needed to be made public were two vehicles collided, one motorist was killed and further details will be released if appropriate. None of the emotionally charged bollocks that generally gets reported when one vehicle has more or less than four wheels.

Though, in saying. It works rather well for building traffic through an otherwise mediocre 'news' site.

Yay, glad to read someone has the same thoughts as me!

The amount of speculation presented as fact was outrageous and annoying, particularly when you knew the rider.

[Deano]

How about details that might help prevent recurrence?

Sure - once the FACTS are established.

[Madness]

How about details that might help prevent recurrence?

How about giving that time, giving the family & those around the deceased the respect they deserve at what is a particularly difficult time of the year to be dealing with such an event?

/Edit: Oh, some facts would be good too.

[imdying]

How about details that might help prevent recurrence?Only thing that will do that is removing all the motorcycles. Not the fast ones, all of them. Men will still act like men on even 50cc bikes. Nobody wants to be that dead cunt, but you'd never know given the way the majority act when they get on one.


How about giving that time, giving the family & those around the deceased the respect they deserve at what is a particularly difficult time of the year to be dealing with such an event?Or they could, ya know, stay away from social media... presumably they'll have other things to be doing right now, like ordering a casket, identifying the body, all that good stuff.

[Deano]

Or they could, ya know, stay away from social media... presumably they'll have other things to be doing right now, like ordering a casket, identifying the body, all that good stuff.

Or people using social media could show some respect. It cuts both ways. But it's just so easy to thrive in internet gossip, and knowing you're safe spouting off behind a keyboard.

People tend to be less opinionated when they are face to face, and when I say people, you know I really mean wankers.

[SPman]

Not good.....but unfortunately, in the eyes of many motorists, not unexpected, either.
Lot's of bikes, often leads to lots of ego leak, which can sometimes lead to this sort of situation.......happens over here as well - no difference.
The missus has almost been cleaned up a couple of times by "expert" riders running wide on corners, who have the road sense and skills of a Lemming on P!
Luckily wide gravel verges - not armco - room to fling the car sideways!

Same same the Rimutakas, which on a clear day are marvellous, but not when riddled with traffic.

[Swoop]

Sad. At this time of year, no matter what, please get home to your family.

[Madness]

Or they could, ya know, stay away from social media... presumably they'll have other things to be doing right now, like ordering a casket, identifying the body, all that good stuff.

Actually I think that if you take your hand off your cock for just one moment you might realise I was posting in reference to the release of information rather than the subject being discussed in social media. Hey, maybe the family & friends of the deceased should avoid exposure to any form of media until they've grieved for their loss as well?

Actually, disregard this post. What the fuck was I thinking entering into a discussion with you of all people regarding empathy and respect?

[Katman]

People tend to be less opinionated when they are face to face....

That's right, you haven't met me yet, have you Deano?

[Deano]

That's right, you haven't met me yet, have you Deano?

Are you for real ? I called in to see you and you weren't there. I left a note for you stating where I would be all of that weekend and I didn't see hide nor hair of you. :laugh:

[hippie]

so you guys all have no idea you read a stupid article on stuff that represents none of the facts then go on to actually start harassing the whole situtation.

Ill clear one or two things up as i was there and witnessed the whole thing.

1. There was a group of about 6 or 7 riders in front of us how that equates to 60 ill never know
2. At no point did a motorcycle make contact with a vehicle
3. At no point did said motorcycle miss taking a corner

And no i wont say exactly how it happened but by no means was it a race back over the tukas could it have be avoided possibly but im not so sure.

Its like people are as bad as the media wait a minute the media are people aswell. A fellow rider has fallen and a really competent talented rider at that just because you guys never fuck up or if you do it hasnt ended in death yet doesnt mean your gods gift to riding bike accidents happen for all sorts of reasons and death is the worse possible outcome and with this accident it was the worst possible outcome.

[Katman]

Are you for real ? I called in to see you and you weren't there. I left a note for you stating where I would be all of that weekend and I didn't see hide nor hair of you. :laugh:

It was just a light-hearted way of saying we haven't yet got to meet Deano.

Not everything I say has to be taken as an attack.

[nerrrd]

If anyone's interested regarding the "balanced reporting" side of things, they featured the dominion post article on the Panel on National Radio this afternoon (starts at around 12:20):

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2580736/the-panel-with-duncan-webb-and-joe-bennett-part-2

Basically an interview with a motorcycle safety guy (in his seventies) regarding what cars and bikes can do to look out for each other.

[nzmikey]

so you guys all have no idea you read a stupid article on stuff that represents none of the facts then go on to actually start harassing the whole situtation.

Ill clear one or two things up as i was there and witnessed the whole thing.


Sorry for your loss dude & I am sure that what happened will filter through the grapevine at some stage ...

[Deano]

It was just a light-hearted way of saying we haven't yet got to meet Deano.

Not everything I say has to be taken as an attack.

Fair enough - I'm just mindful of our previous history and obviously my emotions are running pretty high at the moment.

[nzspokes]

My condolences to the grieving.

Now the blame game starts unfortunately. I can only hope the correct outcome is reached.

[Hans]

Mate, the most dangerous part of the Rimutukas as far as I have experienced is the surface conditions. Apart form a few places, its actually pretty good at the moment. However, you add Deisel to that, and all bets are off. I'm not saying what caused this accident, I don't know. I'm just saying that I know of a LOT of motorcyclists who have come off because of deisel spills, and are lucky to be alive, and skill, speed or whatever have no part in deciding whether you stay up, or on your side of the road or not. When truck drivers comment on how dangerous motocyclist are riding on the Rimutukas, then I see red.

Plenty of motorcyclists ride dangerously on the Rimutakas. Coming from a truck driver.