Tyre issue?

[SMOKEU]

I recently had a new Michelin PP3 front tyre fitted to my SRAD, and so far I'd done about 40km of riding, most of which was on the Cashmere hills doing some gentle turns to wear the tyre in. Then today I took it up in the wet, and as I was following a group of slow cars I was riding really slowly, no more than about 30kmh down a gentle slight downhill corner, and I felt the bike start to slide for no noticeable reason. I didn't see any gravel on the road. It didn't feel like a rear wheel slide, although it could have been both wheels but probably just the front that was sliding. I managed to keep it upright by putting my foot down on the ground which kept it from going shiny side down, but it scared the fuck out of me. So it probably just the fact that the tyre isn't scrubbed in yet? It doesn't look shiny except for about the last 15mm on each side as I haven't had it leaned over far yet.

[Trade_nancy]

Likely due to new tyre..but can't discount road variables and your brain telling u that cos you had on a new tyre - something bad would happen. If u had on the old tyre it may have happened and you would discount the event as nothing out of the ordinary.
I put a PR3 on front of my Triumph Sprint GT just before going south for the Burt Munro and as anyone who went on the Tuesday sailing knows - it rained cats and donkeys from Picton to CHCH. Bike with pillion, full side bags and overloaded rear top bag never felt more planted in all it's life with me into all turns. Had a Slipstone BT023 on before and it wore well and rode OK - but didn't inspire me to lean it in good like this front piece did and I don't know what else changed - cept for the tyre... it felt safe(r).
I put 200km on it 1st though.
What u could have done is do some varied riding increasing lean angle every 20km or so - over 1-2 rides...doing 100+ k. Doing the slow and gentle turns may have helped only in scruffing middle section.
Riding on trail gravel is a good idea for scrub in. Luckily my 50 metre driveway is just that. Unluckily it still is in winter with mud and slippery gravel.

[slofox]

Arrrrgh! 'tis the demon of skid - 'e be art to tear thine arse asunder oooarrrrrgh! (::crazy:)

[YellowDog]

My PR3s are by far the best wet weather tyre I have ever used.

Yes I did notice mine as being a bit slippery for a couple of days (140Km), but I was lucky enough not to encounter any wet weather.

It could have been sabotage :psst:

[ellipsis]

...diesel...light rain...

[Jantar]

I recently had a new Michelin PP3 front tyre fitted to my SRAD, .... Then today I took it up in the wet, and ..... I was riding really slowly, no more than about 30kmh down a gentle slight downhill corner, and I felt the bike start to slide for no noticeable reason........

You have answered your own question. PP3, not PR3, needs to be kept hot to obtain its grip. I am often amazed at the number of riders who expect sport tyres to give the same amount of grip as road tyres in slow cold conditions. Unless you are riding hard, in dry conditions, then a road tyre will give better grip. Its when you are pushing hard, and the tyre is hot, that sports tyres come into their own.

[SVboy]

You have answered your own question. PP3, not PR3, needs to be kept hot to obtain its grip. I am often amazed at the number of riders who expect sport tyres to give the same amount of grip as road tyres in slow cold conditions. Unless you are riding hard, in dry conditions, then a road tyre will give better grip. Its when you are pushing hard, and the tyre is hot, that sports tyres come into their own.

^^"This"^^

[SPP]

^^"This"^^

Seriously? 30kmh gentle corner. Michelin must have gone to shit then.

[SVboy]

You were there? How wet? Bloody wet at times here recently. Bit of grit from roading repairs perhaps, a bit of diesel from a bus or cmpervan perhaps...PR3 would cope a lot better with those factors than a cold new PP3. Sounds like you know better?

[SPP]

You were there? How wet? Bloody wet at times here recently. Bit of grit from roading repairs perhaps, a bit of diesel from a bus or cmpervan perhaps...PR3 would cope a lot better with those factors than a cold new PP3. Sounds like you know better?

nope wasn't, but you knew that.

What I do know is I've ridden quite a few different sport tyres in some pretty atrocious rain and all were actually really bloody good (ok supercorsas were shit but the rest were fine)

A 30kmh gentle corner slide because it was a sport tyre not up to temp? Difficult to swallow.

I don't know if a PR3 would have coped better or not. I've never ridden on them and unlikely to, I've wont use ST tyres and PR2 can be thanked for that but that's my own bias.

[actungbaby]

nope wasn't, but you knew that.

What I do know is I've ridden quite a few different sport tyres in some pretty atrocious rain and all were actually really bloody good (ok supercorsas were shit but the rest were fine)

A 30kmh gentle corner slide because it was a sport tyre not up to temp? Difficult to swallow.

I don't know if a PR3 would have coped better or not. I've never ridden on them and unlikely to, I've wont use ST tyres and PR2 can be thanked for that but that's my own bias.

Probley just fact new tires and yuor thinking about that plus cars getting in the way.

My shinko rear i was like 30 kph just getting up to speed and rode on painted cycle

Lane oh dear lord bloody thing slide . freaked me out never done it again but yeah.

It was new at the time ( rode the cbr 900 other day out roundabout ) i can

accerate quite hard on vfr 750 tryed the same on cbr and bloody norah bike started drifting

sideways its okay at time because you just go okay its bit sideways ;-)

[SPP]

Wish I was a believer but I‘m not.

PR2s and Z6s on a 600RR and 636 were just plain wrong (for me). Just as many sketchy moments as any sport tyre but liked to step out doing it.

It seems my own experience with ‘road’ tyres is the opposite of everyone else. I must be doing it wrong or it's not that cut and dry.

[Jantar]

... I must be doing it wrong or it's not that cut and dry.
It isn't that cut and dry. The main difference between sports tyres and road tyres is the operating temperature. Sports tyres are generally stickier when hot, but not as good when cold, and compared to road tyres, have a narrower operating temperature range. We are not talking big differences here as the manufacturers know that sports tyres are also going to be used on the road, but still a noticeable effect. This does not reflect pure race tyres which have to be kept really warm to work correctly.

If your riding style is rapid acceleration and hard braking, accompanied by vigorous cornering then sportier tyres should be your choice. If your riding is smoother and and more relaxed over longer distances then more road oriented should be your choice.

[caspernz]

Mostly down to the road surface I'd venture, small amount due to the new tyre. PP3 and PR3 will perform much the same under the conditions described, and yep I've used PR3 and PP in heavy rain. If you're sliding at 30 clicks it's got sod all to do with tyre temp...but hey, your tyreman will tell you the same thing if you ask :innocent:

[SMOKEU]

You have answered your own question. PP3, not PR3, needs to be kept hot to obtain its grip. I am often amazed at the number of riders who expect sport tyres to give the same amount of grip as road tyres in slow cold conditions. Unless you are riding hard, in dry conditions, then a road tyre will give better grip. Its when you are pushing hard, and the tyre is hot, that sports tyres come into their own.

I've got a Michelin PP 2CT on the rear, and had a normal PP on the front before, and never had any problems with grip even when riding gently.

[SPP]

It isn't that cut and dry. The main difference between sports tyres and road tyres is the operating temperature. Sports tyres are generally stickier when hot, but not as good when cold, and compared to road tyres, have a narrower operating temperature range. We are not talking big differences here as the manufacturers know that sports tyres are also going to be used on the road, but still a noticeable effect. This does not reflect pure race tyres which have to be kept really warm to work correctly.

If your riding style is rapid acceleration and hard braking, accompanied by vigorous cornering then sportier tyres should be your choice. If your riding is smoother and and more relaxed over longer distances then more road oriented should be your choice.

My own underwhelming experiences with ST tyres a matter of riding style? I hear what you’re saying and it does make sense. I don’t I ride particularly strong on the street but I’m not smooth and flowy either so could be.

[c4.]

It doesn't look shiny except for about the last 15mm on each side as I haven't had it leaned over far yet.[/QUOTE]
pffff

road riding can bring slips and slides at any/every corner/hillcrest.
Good work putting your foot down, that's why great quality riding boots were invented.
probs saved an ankle right there
Reactions and ATGATT are there to save your ass, you will meet the circumstances where all of your best skills and precautions meet all the most unlucky/unlikely conditions at least once in your riding existence. DAMHIK
Tyres (and suspension) are about the relationship between you and the road. Not TRUST, do not TRUST a certain tyre to save your ass. *Rant over*

[Brett]

You have answered your own question. PP3, not PR3, needs to be kept hot to obtain its grip. I am often amazed at the number of riders who expect sport tyres to give the same amount of grip as road tyres in slow cold conditions. Unless you are riding hard, in dry conditions, then a road tyre will give better grip. Its when you are pushing hard, and the tyre is hot, that sports tyres come into their own.

Never had issues with my Supercorsa soft compounds in the wet.

[DMNTD]

I've got a Michelin PP 2CT on the rear, and had a normal PP on the front before, and never had any problems with grip even when riding gently.

Check your tyre pressures but it does sound like shit (diesel/oil) on the road

[spanner spinner]

use to sell motorcycle tyres for a living and have sold thousands of different tyres of different brands and this is normal for Michelin sport tyres in the wet, they are very sensitive to tyre temperature and don't work when cold. this is from both personal experience and feed back from customers. If you want a good wet weather sport tyre buy Dunlop.

[ducatilover]

You have answered your own question. PP3, not PR3, needs to be kept hot to obtain its grip. I am often amazed at the number of riders who expect sport tyres to give the same amount of grip as road tyres in slow cold conditions. Unless you are riding hard, in dry conditions, then a road tyre will give better grip. Its when you are pushing hard, and the tyre is hot, that sports tyres come into their own.

Not always true. My Pilot Powers offer more grip in any road condition than any other tyres I have owned. They just don't last very long :facepalm:

[ital916]

Had Pilot road 2's on my blackbird, scrubbed them in, in the wet from Auckland to Welli...they were great, a lot better than the shit avon storms I had on. I have found best wet grip though to come from bridgestones.....bt-023 battlax is amazing for wet road touring.

[boman]

I have run Michelin Pilot Power 2 2ct, Power Pures 2ct, and now pilot power 3(front only).

I have always scrubbed them in. A minimum of 200km, at least.

I have never had an issue, unless it was caused by shit on the road.

This includes a ride Christmas day Auckland to Wanganui, in rather consistent rain.

The front tyre was less than 500km old.

[tigertim20]

I've got a Michelin PP 2CT on the rear, and had a normal PP on the front before, and never had any problems with grip even when riding gently.

worth checking your tyre pressures - I have had tyres put on by shops before who blew 'em up wayyy to high (for me - theres a bit of preference involved with 'correct' pressures).
The pressures will affect how quick, and how much it warms up - higher pressure warms up slower, holds less heat, lower pressures the opposite, ut wears faster. Even if pressures are correct, how long had you been riding for, and at what pace? as mentioned the tyre might not have been up to operating temperature.

other things to consider are that there could have been oil deisel, or any kind of other shit on the road surface that had an effect.

oh, and heavy rain (IMO) isnt so bad, as HEAVY rain washes the road somewhat, but light rain, seems to lift the grime and oil and fuel and shit dripped on the road from the crevices between the chip and brings it to the surface affecting grip.

simplest stuff first, go check your pressures and doesnt hurt to re-evaluate suspension settings either.

clear as mud?

[kinger]

Quadruple the distance and I'd understand the confusion.

[gwynfryn]

The only times i have lost the front on the road was in winter with a pilot power on the front ! Stick with a pilot road.

[SMOKEU]

worth checking your tyre pressures - I have had tyres put on by shops before who blew 'em up wayyy to high (for me - theres a bit of preference involved with 'correct' pressures).
The pressures will affect how quick, and how much it warms up - higher pressure warms up slower, holds less heat, lower pressures the opposite, ut wears faster. Even if pressures are correct, how long had you been riding for, and at what pace? as mentioned the tyre might not have been up to operating temperature.

other things to consider are that there could have been oil deisel, or any kind of other shit on the road surface that had an effect.

oh, and heavy rain (IMO) isnt so bad, as HEAVY rain washes the road somewhat, but light rain, seems to lift the grime and oil and fuel and shit dripped on the road from the crevices between the chip and brings it to the surface affecting grip.

simplest stuff first, go check your pressures and doesnt hurt to re-evaluate suspension settings either.

clear as mud?

I'm running 36psi front and 38psi rear (cold) so that's not an issue. I had been riding for about 10 minutes before this happened, at a faster pace than what I was riding when I slipped. There was heavy rain in the days before and on the day this happened, so any diesel or oil should have been washed away. I didn't see any gravel.

[p.dath]

SMOKEU's, what sort of bike to you have?

I'm with SPP. At 30km/h the bike is going to have very little lean angle. Even with the tyres stone cold you are not going to have a grip issue.

My bet is there was something on the road surface.

[SMOKEU]

SMOKEU's, what sort of bike to you have?

I'm with SPP. At 30km/h the bike is going to have very little lean angle. Even with the tyres stone cold you are not going to have a grip issue.

My bet is there was something on the road surface.

1997 GSXR600. I have included a Google Maps image of the corner. I was travelling down hill.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=-43.607905,172.64608&spn=0.003434,0.008256&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=-43.607813,172.646047&panoid=JcQUsWLDBVzo3RY8tBdEZw&cbp=12,175.16,,0,19.59

[ellipsis]

...that bit of the road is notorious for diesel spills from campers and gherkins in Merivale shopping carts, thinking they are real cool whizzing round the bendy bits...the rain was on and off over the period you were riding, with high humidity...add the frantic pre christmas shopping trips for aforementioned bints in their shopping carts and an added litre or two of diesel slopping out 'cos they all filled up down in the city, so they would have enough juice over the imagined closed for christmas period...hey presto...slippy tyre...imo...

[p.dath]

1997 GSXR600...

I used the Michelin Tyre Selector:
http://motorcycle.michelinman.com/tire-selector#s=0

The Pilot Road 3 is not suitable for your bike - according to the tyre manufacturer. Most likely it has not been designed to handle the amount of power output by your bike.

Out of the remaining tyres recommended the Pilot Power 3, which you are currently using, is the stand out best tyre for on-road use (IMHO). It has both the best wet and dry traction of the options presented, and also a a reasonable lifetime.

[SMOKEU]

I used the Michelin Tyre Selector:
http://motorcycle.michelinman.com/tire-selector#s=0

The Pilot Road 3 is not suitable for your bike - according to the tyre manufacturer. Most likely it has not been designed to handle the amount of power output by your bike.

Out of the remaining tyres recommended the Pilot Power 3, which you are currently using, is the stand out best tyre for on-road use (IMHO). It has both the best wet and dry traction of the options presented, and also a a reasonable lifetime.

My bike has only 100BHP ish when new, and even though I'm a slow (really, really slow) rider these sports tyres don't usually let me down, even in wet or cold conditions. I guess I have another excuse to go do some track time!

[Owl]

I've got a Michelin PP 2CT on the rear, and had a normal PP on the front before, and never had any problems with grip even when riding gently.

Had a couple of issues with grip on new tyres, but rears and not fronts.

Worst was a new Avon Storm and after riding 20km on the open road, I hit a line of wet road and rain. Within approx 50 metres, the rear cut loose and slid with the road camber. After that ass puckering moment, I continued on for about 100 metres until it happened again:eek5:, only this time the bike was still crossed up when I came to a complete halt. Decided to turn around and head for the safety of dry road, then found I had trouble getting traction with even slight acceleration. No more drama once I reached dry road and after that tyre was scrubbed in, never had an issue with the wet either?

Ever since then though, I always wipe my new tyres down with brakleen after fitting them. Never had a new tyre slip since.

[SVboy]

If I am not mistaken, that is the infamous corner that cost OAB his arm. Tricky corner, even in the dry, going up but particularly going down.

[SMOKEU]

If I am not mistaken, that is the infamous corner that cost OAB his arm. Tricky corner, even in the dry, going up but particularly going down.

Fuck, that's pretty bad. So maybe it's not just me being a n00b.

[p.dath]

My bike has only 100BHP ish when new, and even though I'm a slow (really, really slow) rider these sports tyres don't usually let me down, even in wet or cold conditions. I guess I have another excuse to go do some track time!

Only 600 BHP? That's mid-range. :-)

[SMOKEU]

Only 600 BHP? That's mid-range. :-)

I wish! :laugh: