Rear rubber for me Hornet, track days?

[nzspokes]

Im not enjoying my PR3 on the back. Feels like it moves around a lot on hot days and at a recent track day. Would a Pilot Power 1 or 2 be better? Or a PR2?

Got a track day in a week so putting some thought into it.

[R650R]

Yikes, looked it up. Have a set of pilot powers on the 750, great special awhile ago...
A new matching PAIR of anything known brandname sporty should be ok.

[Grubber]

Chuck a set of Metzler Racetecs K1 front and K2 rear for the track would be heaps better. Swap them back when your all done on the track.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[HenryDorsetCase]

I really liked Pirelli Diablo Rosso Corsas on mine. Didnt stop me decking it at a trackday but thats due to my lack of talent

[SPP]

only a rear? what's on the front?

[nzspokes]

only a rear? what's on the front?

PR3. May do a set. But the front feels fine. Although it has an odd wear pattern.

[Phreak]

I've been advised to get Pirelli Super Corsa's for my next set on my track bike... lots of real racers swear by them!

[bigreddog]

I'd change the pair if I were you....
Don't use race tyres if you plan on riding the bike on the road.

IMHO The Michelin pilot road series are a good bet, I race my Ducati in clubmans with them on and they are very predictable. They wear evenly on well balanced rims and are good in the wet.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. But the front feels fine. Although it has an odd wear pattern.

They tend to when you're only using half of it.

[nzspokes]

I'd change the pair if I were you....
Don't use race tyres if you plan on riding the bike on the road.

IMHO The Michelin pilot road series are a good bet, I race my Ducati in clubmans with them on and they are very predictable. They wear evenly on well balanced rims and are good in the wet.

The 3s are the first ones Ive had a problem with. I may try Power 2CTs.

[nzspokes]

They tend to when you're only using half of it.

Fair call.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fair call.

Yeah that wasn't a dig either. But modern 120/?/17's are near on impossible to use up on the street unless the fucking thing has just fallen off the side stand.

[nzspokes]

Yeah that wasn't a dig either. But modern 120/?/17's are near on impossible to use up on the street unless the fucking thing has just fallen off the side stand.

Its got a 1 high, 1 block low thing going on with both tyres. They are a great wet and to and from work tyre. But on a hot day they feel to squirm. Not saying Im a Rossi though, just would prefer a different feel to em.

[SPP]

I may try Power 2CTs.

guys go pretty bloody quick on regular old powers. $420 for 120/180 set from 'treads is a bargain I reckon.

[300weatherby]

Its got a 1 high, 1 block low thing going on with both tyres. They are a great wet and to and from work tyre. But on a hot day they feel to squirm. Not saying Im a Rossi though, just would prefer a different feel to em.

Sounds very like rebound, stop playing with your clickers and get someone to help you set the bike up. Bike "squirms"? Unless you are on wets, tread pattern, compound and construction are unlikely to be at first fault- look at set up and pressures first.

[SPP]

Its got a 1 high, 1 block low thing going on with both tyres. They are a great wet and to and from work tyre. But on a hot day they feel to squirm. Not saying Im a Rossi though, just would prefer a different feel to em.

What, from new?... weird or did it wear that way?


Sounds very like rebound, stop playing with your clickers and get someone to help you set the bike up. Bike "squirms"? Unless you are on wets, tread pattern, compound and construction are unlikely to be at first fault- look at set up and pressures first.

Yeah, I saw a Dave Moss show where he pulled out a tyre that had that wear patten as an example of too loose rebound (pogo).

[nzspokes]

What, from new?... weird or did it wear that way?



Yeah, I saw a Dave Moss show where he pulled out a tyre that had that wear patten as an example of too loose rebound (pogo).

Not from new. have worn that way.

Will try rebound.

Pic is the rear after my track day. I was slow. Pressures on the day were 36r and 32f. I was told to leave it at that as I was in group 1.

[Ocean1]

Not from new. have worn that way.

Will try rebound.

Pic is the rear after my track day. I was slow. Pressures on the day were 36r and 32f. I was told to leave it at that as I was in group 1.

That's normal wear for a PR3. At least it's what I see on several bikes I ride with often, including mine, and there's not much wrong with my damping setup.

And I'd say the squirm you feel is pretty standard too. I don't dislike it, it represents a lot more feedback on what's going on down there than most alternatives, and weird as it might feel to start with I can't help but feel it's a good thing.

If you don't like it I can only suggest you stick with a sport/touring option, rather than fuck around with straight sports tyres that tend to perform better only in a narrow, (hot) range.

[SPP]

Will try rebound.

Pic is the rear after my track day. I was slow. Pressures on the day were 36r and 32f. I was told to leave it at that as I was in group 1.

Have someone bounce your bike and get it near. If it's AMCC ART day on the 12th then I think Nick Turner will be at that one. He usually does the suspension fiddling if you want him to.
or watch this (http://www.onthethrottle.com/howto/dave-moss-unsprung-tire-wear)

TBH funny tyre wear can sometimes be fixed with the throttle.

... and 32/36 sounds the wrong way 'round. Is that what you use on the street? and you like it?

[Crasherfromwayback]

... and 32/36 sounds the wrong way 'round. Is that what you use on the street? and you like it?

Whilst for my personal preference they're too high...I think the rear would always be very slightly higher than the front.

[Gremlin]

Suspension plays a large part of this mix, and you haven't mentioned if you're running standard or not.

Sticky tyres will simply put more pressure on the suspension... and as I know you commute on it, I'd probably go with sport touring, PR2 or Z8.

[nzspokes]

Suspension plays a large part of this mix, and you haven't mentioned if you're running standard or not.

Sticky tyres will simply put more pressure on the suspension... and as I know you commute on it, I'd probably go with sport touring, PR2 or Z8.

Stock rear shock with 1000lb spring (its a non-linkage bike), would like to try 1200lb. Front has Progressive brand springs with 10w oil lifted 25mm in height.

Ive set my rebound to just catch on the way up, it doesn't pogo for normal riding. The squirm is a sideways movement not up and down. But im open to ideas if ive got it wrong.

[nzspokes]

Have someone bounce your bike and get it near. If it's AMCC ART day on the 12th then I think Nick Turner will be at that one. He usually does the suspension fiddling if you want him to.
or watch this (http://www.onthethrottle.com/howto/dave-moss-unsprung-tire-wear)

TBH funny tyre wear can sometimes be fixed with the throttle.

... and 32/36 sounds the wrong way 'round. Is that what you use on the street? and you like it?

My throttle control is shit and is one of the reasons for going to track days. So good point.

Where do you think I should head for pressure?

[nzspokes]

Whilst for my personal preference they're too high...I think the rear would always be very slightly higher than the front.

What do you think I should start out with then?

Which brings up a point, what tyre pressure gauge should I run? Robert Taylor at one of his nights showed us a $300 one, but are there cheaper options?

[SPP]

Whilst for my personal preference they're too high...I think the rear would always be very slightly higher than the front.
me too but does 32 on the front seems low for a plodding and but ok for a fanger? ... and 36 rear seem ok for plodding and but high for a fanger?



I'd probably go with sport touring, PR2 or Z8.

Fair call, I watched one guy roll around pretty quick on PR2s too. At the last ART a fella on a Bandit 1250 with PR2s had it way over on turn 6, mind you I did think holy fuck I hope he doesn't fall over in front of me though.



My throttle control is shit and is one of the reasons for going to track days. So good point. Where do you think I should head for pressure?

The throttle comment wasn't supposed to come across all smart arse know all either.

I'm average paced as well, it's just a couple of years back I had a confidence knock and couldn't get comfortable. My tyres wore ugly; ramped sipe edge, debris then smooth patches, light banding etc so I went looking for the 'problem'. I fiddled with rebound, tyre pressure, compression and even body position but it turned out to be throttle. Once I'd decided fuck it and started rolling into it the tyre cleaned up, especially noticeable on the right side from of Turn 1 and Turn 6.

Pressure, dunno what ever floats your boat. I think starting out you'd probably want stability over outright grip and I'm guessing is the reason why ART told you to leave pressure alone for G1. They want you on a stable bike (and one you're familiar with) leaving you to concentrate on other things.

In saying that if you like the front at 32 then drop the rear to 32 and give it a burl. Just take it easy and feel out the difference. The lower you go on street and road tyres the less stable they become and I wouldn't go below 30 to start out with.


If you don't like it I can only suggest you stick with a sport/touring option, rather than fuck around with straight sports tyres that tend to perform better only in a narrow, (hot) range.

Seems solid. The only thing I'd add would be that when talking to people about tyres most of their comments focus around on grip and how they steer. I personally value stability and feel over outright grip (since they all grip like shit) and my favorite sport tyres excel in these two areas. That's not to say PR2 or Z8 don't and are probably more what he's looking for over a PR3 that squirms around.

[Ocean1]

me too but does 32 on the front seems low for a plodding and but ok for a fanger? ... and 36 rear seem ok for plodding and but high for a fanger?

Recommended pressures for PR3s on my machine is 34/38, and from messing around with them when first fitted that's a good start. For normal, unloaded road riding I use 32/36, much less than that on the front and you start to feel the sidewalls collapsing under peak load.


Seems solid. The only thing I'd add would be that when talking to people about tyres most people comments focus around on grip and how they steer. I personally value stability and feel over outright grip (since they all grip like shit) and my favorite sport tyres excel in these two areas. That's not to say PR2 or Z8 aren't and are probably more what he's looking for over a PR3 that squirms around.

PR3s are quite a bit different from their predecessors, in particular they're a lot lighter, which is why you can feel them move around a bit, it's not the tyre progressively "letting go", it's just flex in the carcase. Think you're right about grip and steer, but as you say any modern sports tyre has prodigious ultimate grip anyway, and how it steers is down to profile. At least new profile, it's not unusual to see pure sports tyres squared off so much as to be bloody horrible to ride.

So much of tyre preference is down to sub-conscious rationale that sometimes all you can say is "I don't like it", change to something else and move on.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Whilst for my personal preference they're too high...I think the rear would always be very slightly higher than the front.

I can't find my notes from when I had the Hornet but from memory at Levels on a warmish day I started at 32F 30R cold and then after the first session they were something like 36F and 34R.... something like that. rear was less than the front anyway by a couple because it got hotter due to my using the throttle instead of talent. and we know how that worked out. I did read somewhere about looking for around a 10% difference cold to hot.

[HenryDorsetCase]

What do you think I should start out with then?

Which brings up a point, what tyre pressure gauge should I run? Robert Taylor at one of his nights showed us a $300 one, but are there cheaper options?

http://www.ghmeiser.com/

I've used these for years. No complaints. From memory around $50

[SPP]

Recommended pressures for PR3s on my machine is 34/38, and from messing around with them when first fitted that's a good start. For normal, unloaded road riding I use 32/36, much less than that on the front and you start to feel the sidewalls collapsing under peak load.

PR3s are quite a bit different from their predecessors, in particular they're a lot lighter, which is why you can feel them move around a bit, it's not the tyre progressively "letting go", it's just flex in the carcase. Think you're right about grip and steer, but as you say any modern sports tyre has prodigious ultimate grip anyway, and how it steers is down to profile.
It's official then, I have no idea what pressure PR3s perform best at. 32/36 is quite a bit different from tyres I use.


I can't find my notes from when I had the Hornet but from memory at Levels on a warmish day I started at 32F 30R cold and then after the first session they were something like 36F and 34R.... something like that. rear was less than the front anyway by a couple because it got hotter due to my using the throttle instead of talent. and we know how that worked out. I did read somewhere about looking for around a 10% difference cold to hot.
Those are the pressures I would have expected for a trackday but hey, sounds like could be either-or. I heard the rule of thumb was ~5 psi gain from cold to straight off the track (or 3 psi from cold to hot off the warmers + another 2 psi from warmers to hot off the track) which is around 10%.



At least new profile, it's not unusual to see pure sports tyres squared off so much as to be bloody horrible to ride.
Commuting on a torquey bike certainly chops the centre out of a sport tyre pretty quick if you're heavy with the throttle. Some do better than others but they all seem to go that way eventually.



So much of tyre preference is down to sub-conscious rationale that sometimes all you can say is "I don't like it", change to something else and move on.
I reckon too. Oftentimes the 'best' tyre is the one you're most relaxed on.

[Gremlin]

Stock rear shock with 1000lb spring (its a non-linkage bike), would like to try 1200lb. Front has Progressive brand springs with 10w oil lifted 25mm in height.

Ive set my rebound to just catch on the way up, it doesn't pogo for normal riding. The squirm is a sideways movement not up and down. But im open to ideas if ive got it wrong.
Oooh no, I won't give anyone suspension setting advice, as I don't know enough. I do know that the whole setup, plus tyres plus tyre pressure have to be in harmony otherwise it's not going to work. In your position, I'd be finding a professional to look at your suspension setup to make sure you're on the right track, or if you have something way out of whack. Either way, it's going to be excellent for your mind to know it's right.


Fair call, I watched one guy roll around pretty quick on PR2s too. At the last ART a fella on a Bandit 1250 with PR2s had it way over on turn 6, mind you I did think holy fuck I hope he doesn't fall over in front of me though.
The current crop of sport touring tyres are actually excellent performers in a wide range of conditions. Obviously they have limits, but I think a 100HP Hornet that isn't racing, is well within the sport touring envelope. The Hornet's budget suspension is the biggest issue, as it's going to make the tyres work harder (although spokes has changed this).

Road factory recommended pressures for the Hornet is 36/42, tyre manufacturers advise you to follow motorcycle manufacturer recommendations. Track work changes this obviously, and the recommended pressure will vary from tyre to tyre.


I reckon too. Oftentimes the 'best' tyre is the one you're most relaxed on.
Absolutely agree there. The mind is a powerful thing, and if it has doubts, you're pushing shit up hill. Remove those doubts and you're already better off.

[nzspokes]

Oooh no, I won't give anyone suspension setting advice, as I don't know enough. I do know that the whole setup, plus tyres plus tyre pressure have to be in harmony otherwise it's not going to work. In your position, I'd be finding a professional to look at your suspension setup to make sure you're on the right track, or if you have something way out of whack. Either way, it's going to be excellent for your mind to know it's right.




Im happy with suspension set up for what the bike is. I don't believe suspension is a black art.

[nzspokes]

After chatting today to somebody in the know I understand why the tyres are doing what they are doing.

As the tyres have extensive groves to allow for water release and a soft compound to get heat quickly in the wet as each of the small blocks heat and move they twist out and the leading edge gets worn before popping back into place. That is exactly the wear im getting and it will be causing the squirm Im feeling.

Interesting.

[SPP]

Knowing that, are you going to suck it and see or swap it out?

[nzspokes]

Knowing that, are you going to suck it and see or swap it out?

Well thats the question really. Power 2s I can get a set for $450 which I may do.

But now I know what it is and the cause Im not so worried. I did get a pressure tester today and it looks like my pressures are lower then I thought.

I may lift the pressures to 34f and 36r and go out for a spirited ride tomorrow then see what they go up to. It could be they were just to low in pressure, again though it looks others on here have had them even lower.

[SPP]

Well thats the question really. Power 2s I can get a set for $450 which I may do.

But now I know what it is and the cause Im not so worried. I did get a pressure tester today and it looks like my pressures are lower then I thought.

I may lift the pressures to 34f and 36r and go out for a spirited ride tomorrow then see what they go up to. It could be they were just to low in pressure, again though it looks others on here have had them even lower.

Worth a shot.

Re PPs. If you really are slow to medium pace I don't think you actually need the extra tyre but the difference will be immediately noticeable and that isn't a bad thing. You'll pay for it with tyre life though. If you were looking to wick it up I'd say the PPs would be a worthwhile change.

Oh, an barring a catastrophe I'll be at ART on the 12th too. Come say g'day.

[nzspokes]

Worth a shot.

Re PPs. If you really are slow to medium pace I don't think you actually need the extra tyre but the difference will be immediately noticeable and that isn't a bad thing. You'll pay for it with tyre life though. If you were looking to wick it up I'd say the PPs would be a worthwhile change.

Oh, an barring a catastrophe I'll be at ART on the 12th too. Come say g'day.

Im the slow old guy on the red Hornet holding up group 1. :yes:

Now I know what is going on Im a lot happier. I will play with pressure and see how it feels. One of the trainers is taking my bike out in one session so it will be intresting to hear his feedback on my bike.

I am thinking more of sticking with the PR3s now.

[SPP]

Im the slow old guy on the red Hornet holding up group 1. :yes:

Now I know what is going on Im a lot happier. I will play with pressure and see how it feels. One of the trainers is taking my bike out in one session so it will be intresting to hear his feedback on my bike.

I am thinking more of sticking with the PR3s now.

4 hundy does buy a lot of track time. I'll keep an eye out and come over to say g'day.

[nzspokes]

Gunna head out now for a blast with 34f and 32r. Will measure them when I get home.

[nzspokes]

After a quick ride I got up to 36f and 35R.

I seem to have reduced my chicken strips also on that last ride.

[SPP]

Happy with that?

[nzspokes]

Happy with that?

I think so. Will keep an eye on the pressures at the track day.

[AllanB]

Road pressures are usually higher than track. I run 35/38 on mine on the road. Mind you that's on South Island rubber chewer roads so very different to North Island race tracks.

[nzspokes]

Was going to get Powers this week but will wait for PR4s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGD6HLdNcW4&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Le9mXPfjX_o

[AllanB]

That was quick for a new tyre.

[nzspokes]

That was quick for a new tyre.

Don't think we have them yet.

[SPP]

Now I know what is going on Im a lot happier. I will play with pressure and see how it feels. One of the trainers is taking my bike out in one session so it will be intresting to hear his feedback on my bike.

I am thinking more of sticking with the PR3s now.

how'd it go?

[nzspokes]

how'd it go?

Loved it. I think the tyres last time were overwhelmed with my muppet riding. Good to meet you today but couldnt make it back up as it got a bit busy. I got to do some laps on a race gixxer 1k while my girl went out on mine as a pillion.

I improved heaps today so real happy. How did you go?

[SPP]

Loved it. I think the tyres last time were overwhelmed with my muppet riding. Good to meet you today but couldnt make it back up as it got a bit busy. I got to do some laps on a race gixxer 1k while my girl went out on mine as a pillion.

I improved heaps today so real happy. How did you go?

Nice one. Sounds like you had a day of family fun, good on ya. The gixxer thou go alright eh!

Me?, yeah all good. Found it hard to get into a rhythm but still had fun and learnt a lot following Instructor Greg.

[nzspokes]

Nice one. Sounds like you had a day of family fun, good on ya. The gixxer thou go alright eh!

Me?, yeah all good. Found it hard to get into a rhythm but still had fun and learnt a lot following Instructor Greg.

It was Gregs bike I rode.

[SPP]

It was Gregs bike I rode.

and still shiney. Happy with that.

[nzspokes]

and still shiney. Happy with that.

Yeah Gregs good people. I was surprised when he said I could use it when he took my girl out on the back of my bike. Not sure I would let a new track rider out on my race bike. i must look honest.

[SPP]

Yeah Gregs good people. I was surprised when he said I could use it when he took my girl out on the back of my bike. Not sure I would let a new track rider out on my race bike. i must look honest.

yes, seems to be.