Cornering lines

[SMOKEU]

I've done a bit of rider training on a track, and I know that a good cornering line should usually look something like the following:
http://www.wanderersmc.com/cornering-300x300.jpg

The only problem I have with that on the roads is that I have to ride over the middle of the lane while leaned over, which is precisely where the gravel and other roadside debris tends to build up, so I'd prefer to ride in the wheel tracks of the cars. I've had a few very scary moments recently where I hit gravel mid corner and the bike did a bit of drifting. So, do you ride on the inside of the corner, or the outside of the corner? Does this change depending on if the turn is left or right?

[skippa1]

Cassina would have you believe after his 38 years experience, that the only way to do this safely is to get off and push your bike around
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162788-Orange-Street-Triple-R-on-Akaroa-Highway-(2-January)

[haydes55]

I'm far from an expert, but what I try do is approach the corner in the outside wheel track, then turn in and cross the middle into the inside wheel track. On right handers sometimes the outside of the inside wheel track is too close to the center line so I just use the middle of the lane or stay in the outside track. Some blind corners I don't see the exit and stay in the outside wheel track for the entire corner.

The white line is a brick wall and the edge of the road is a cliff. You can hang your head over a cliff, but you can't put your head through a brick wall.

[slofox]

I don't take any notice of theory. I just choose the best looking piece of road and try to stick to that.

I am also a little averse to getting too close to the centre line given the number of cars that cross the centre when cornering - usually when they are in a right hander.

Most of the tyre tracks around here are shiny as hell through tar melt, so I like to avoid those too.

[slofox]

... you can't put your head through a brick wall.

Ermmm...you can, y'know. Results aren't usually too good though.

[GTRMAN]

I've done a bit of rider training on a track, and I know that a good cornering line should usually look something like the following:

The only problem I have with that on the roads is that I have to ride over the middle of the lane while leaned over, which is precisely where the gravel and other roadside debris tends to build up, so I'd prefer to ride in the wheel tracks of the cars. I've had a few very scary moments recently where I hit gravel mid corner and the bike did a bit of drifting. So, do you ride on the inside of the corner, or the outside of the corner? Does this change depending on if the turn is left or right?

You have answered your own question a bit. A road is not a track and the cornering lines are completely different. Rather than listen to what can be downright dodgy advice on kb why not give Duncan Seed a call and get some professional training. He's down your way.

[DMNTD]

There are so many variables it's rediculous and with one of the major ones being what the next 2 corners are like.
I am more than happy to show in person and take it from there

[oneofsix]

I'm far from an expert, but what I try do is approach the corner in the outside wheel track, then turn in and cross the middle into the inside wheel track. On right handers sometimes the outside of the inside wheel track is too close to the center line so I just use the middle of the lane or stay in the outside track. Some blind corners I don't see the exit and stay in the outside wheel track for the entire corner.

The white line is a brick wall and the edge of the road is a cliff. You can hang your head over a cliff, but you can't put your head through a brick wall.

Close. On the blind right hander try the left hand wheel track, you will find it gives you good visibility around the corner, cross in to the usual right hand wheel track riding position when you can see the out the exit of the corner.
On the left handers I understand slo's comment on the corner cutters but if you are in the right wheel track you can see around the corner better and can see the wayward cage approaching sooner so 1/ you have more time to get out the way and 2/ you don't get that but clinching surprise.

[nodrog]

I think you will be safe whatever line you take, your keyboard seems pretty stable.

[skippa1]

Try the hand down method, you can feel any stones or slippery surface material

291861

[ellipsis]

...<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/JfwqSXmJ-mE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.....

.........

[Hitcher]

What you've drawn are RACE lines. ROAD lines are different, safer and, arguably, just as fast.

Road lines should see you staying left longer, (for a righthand corner), holding speed or braking, and not committing to the turn until you can see through the corner. Reverse this for a righthander. This means that a corner's apex is not on either the centreline or the edge line, which should keep riders out of the paths of oncoming traffic or gravel.

[bogan]

What you've drawn are RACE lines. ROAD lines are different, safer and, arguably, just as fast.

+1, Generally later turn in and later apex than race lines.

[sugilite]

Is it April 1st already?

[Grubber]

Those are definitely race lines.
I generally ride to the outside line dependant on road surface. Then use that outside to allow me to have good visibility through the corner and then my apex would possibly be out from centre line when i roll into the corner.
No sense in tempting fate with on coming car cutting the corner.
Seem to get through the corners smoothly enough and quick enough to stay out of trouble.

[Gremlin]

Just to expand on what Hitcher said, there is a difference between roadcraft and track skills. While there is crossover and you can gain useful techniques from the other, when you start digging into specifics, you're likely to get conflicting advice between road and track.

Track is about the quickest line through a corner, road is about the safest line through a corner. Ultimately, as haydes says, treat the centreline like a brick wall. No part of you or the bike should be crossing that centreline at any point (and even then, the oncoming vehicles may require you to give them even more room, for any of numerous reasons. Therefore, it's unlikely that your wheels will be in the right hand wheel track in a right hand bend.

After that, it's about your safety, stability and view. What's safest, what's the most stable and what gives you the best view around the corner (because a road isn't a track). This will vary from corner to corner, and it's about applying your skillset in every situation.

Best, if you want to get into answers, you're looking to go to one of the training providers down there. They will observe your riding then give you feedback. You're looking for actual road time, Duncan Seed is good in Canterbury.

[Erelyes]

As I understand it (hoping pic works)-

First off for clarification I've put in double yellows so we know this is a LANE not the whole road. As said earlier the opposite lane can be considered a brick wall.

The blue line reflects what I would usually have in mind when cornering (actual results varying) - i.e., leave turn-in later, keeping to the outside of the corner on entry.

Advantage being: your sharpest turning / highest lean angle will be on the part of the corner which you can sight on corner entry.

Should there be hazards later in the turn, at first (gravel, roadkill, lane intrusion, etc), you are 'committed' to a lower lean angle, so have more in reserve to take avoiding action or change your line to suit.

My tuppence

291864

[SMOKEU]

I've included a couple of crudely drawn graphical depictions of both left and right hand turns. The green lines represent the "normal" cornering line, while the red lines is what I'd do if there is debris in the middle of the road. The red lines are always in the wheel tracks of the cars, where there is very little debris (usually). The arrows show which direction I'm riding in.

For the LEFT turn, the green line is approximately in the middle of the lane. For the right turn, the green line is near where the right hand wheel of a car would be. Does this look like a reasonably safe way to corner, both for collision avoidance with other vehicles, and avoiding debris?

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/GSXR600/rightturn.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/SR20NP/media/GSXR600/rightturn.jpg.html)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/GSXR600/leftturn2.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/SR20NP/media/GSXR600/leftturn2.jpg.html)

[skippa1]

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn204/SR20NP/GSXR600/leftturn.jpg (http://s305.photobucket.com/user/SR20NP/media/GSXR600/leftturn.jpg.html)You're in the shit here I'm afraid your line is way off......like wrong side of the road off

[Hitcher]

I've been scouring YouTube for a clip I saw some years ago involving a head-to-head between some English track bike racer (riding a track bike) versus the UK Police's head bike instructor (on an ST1300 with all the cop works on it). One rode race lines, the other road lines. The racer wasn't that much faster than the cop.

Somebody with better YouTube search skills than me may be able to find it.

[SMOKEU]

You're in the shit here I'm afraid your line is way off......like wrong side of the road off

lol! That's a pretty epic fail. Fixed.

[george formby]

I've been scouring YouTube for a clip I saw some years ago involving a head-to-head between some English track bike racer (riding a track bike) versus the UK Police's head bike instructor (on an ST1300 with all the cop works on it). One rode race lines, the other road lines. The racer wasn't that much faster than the cop.

Somebody with better YouTube search skills than me may be able to find it.

I read an article in a British bike mag years ago which said the same thing. Remarkably little in it all things considered.

Watch you vanishing point, give your self as much time & space into the corner as possible, apex when you see the exit. Done. Next corner.

[Voltaire]

30 years of riding like a Nana and assuming that whats coming around the corner is going to come around over the line. :woohoo:
My 1974 R90S is an ideal Nana machine, saying that I do like when the head on the track R90 touches down on turn 3 and 6 at HD.:eek5:

[tri boy]

If your lines are bent, adjust your nostril angle to suit.

[ellipsis]

...if they haven't for some already, they will at some point soon....

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UCR3hJQWyOo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[haydes55]

I've included a couple of crudely drawn graphical depictions of both left and right hand turns. The green lines represent the "normal" cornering line, while the red lines is what I'd do if there is debris in the middle of the road. The red lines are always in the wheel tracks of the cars, where there is very little debris (usually). The arrows show which direction I'm riding in.



For the LEFT turn, the green line is approximately in the middle of the lane. For the right turn, the green line is near where the right hand wheel of a car would be. Does this look like a reasonably safe way to corner, both for collision avoidance with other vehicles, and avoiding debris?









That's exactly what I try do. There's the back up option of turning in earlier if the outside line looks shit as well.

[Akzle]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=291869&stc=1&d=1388724736
. .

[SVboy]

I think it is such an individual thing. I got good value from Keith Codes "twist of the wrist 1&2". Got me consciencely scanning ahead, judging road conds, looking for hazards and braking and turning markers in an effort to make my lines less random.

[Mushu]

I see some flaws in the diagrams everyone has drawn up, so I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride.
Everyone seems to want to try emulate the classic idea of a racing line, entering and exiting a corner wide.
I try exit a corner as close to the inside as possible for a few reasons, mostly because it allows me far more options incase of the unexpected and because in the majority of situations any corner is often followed by a corner turning the opposite direction so my line puts me in the correct place to enter the next corner

You'll have to excuse my lack of ability with MS paint but here is a rough representation of what I do on the road.
The yellow line represents the centreline, the green line is the line I would use turning right and the blue line is the line I would use turning left
291880

[skippa1]

I see some flaws in the diagrams everyone has drawn up, so I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride.
Everyone seems to want to try emulate the classic idea of a racing line, entering and exiting a corner wide.
I try exit a corner as close to the inside as possible for a few reasons, mostly because it allows me far more options incase of the unexpected and because in the majority of situations any corner is often followed by a corner turning the opposite direction so my line puts me in the correct place to enter the next corner

You'll have to excuse my lack of ability with MS paint but here is a rough representation of what I do on the road.
The yellow line represents the centreline, the green line is the line I would use turning right and the blue line is the line I would use turning left


Seriously, your MS Paint skills are quite good

[EJK]

According to this thread, all NZ road corners are 90 degrees right angle.

[Ocean1]

I've been scouring YouTube for a clip I saw some years ago involving a head-to-head between some English track bike racer (riding a track bike) versus the UK Police's head bike instructor (on an ST1300 with all the cop works on it). One rode race lines, the other road lines. The racer wasn't that much faster than the cop.

Somebody with better YouTube search skills than me may be able to find it.

To be pedantic, (I need the practice) there's a big difference between qualifying lines and race lines. The classic parabola, slightly tweaked for corner curve and camber variations is theoretically the fastest way through a corner, and a continuous interpolation of that line through the complete circuit is the go on an empty track.

Actual race lines have also to consider the competition, and that parabolic approach may get you passed under brakes on the inside, with you having to run wide under brakes. The wining line is an inside entry and an early apex, neither conducive to ultimate speed but far less likely to let the bastards past.

So the real race line differs even more from the recommended road line than that first pic might indicate. Just about the complete opposite, in fact.

[MSTRS]

On the road, the undisputed winner of corner lines is the late-apex method. Safer, smoother, and what's speed got to do with road-riding anyway...
On the track, I am constantly amazed at how the tight inside line under brakes is the faster entry but almost always the slower exit. To attain and keep the lead this way relies on blocking the just-passed rider who can get on the gas much earlier.

[G4L4XY]

As long as you get your knee-down and you make it to the other side you're doing it right

[SPP]

.. I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride..
I haven't had professional roadcraft training so am hardly an authority but that looks spot on to me. I'm not convinced about the rationale for the centre line position at exit but it matters little.

Track lines - Ride like Rossi
Qualifying, Defensive and Racing from 03:44

The Qualifying line is the one you're shown at trackdays since its the safest and most resembles a good road line. At CSS they make a point of not teaching you a specific line since there are many that could be used depending on situation and all are good if they follow the throttle rule.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWyrZhArYI

[Katman]

On the road, the undisputed winner of corner lines is the late-apex method.

What's apexing got to do with safe road riding?

[MSTRS]

What's apexing got to do with safe road riding?

Apex. N. Top. Peak. Highest point
Apexing. V. Summiting. Arriving at the highest point.

So - for the terminally stupid - if a rider is not on top of their game, they are not (being) safe. So there. :banana:


Actually, the apex in a corner is simply the point where the rider stops ENTERING the corner and begins EXITING that corner. Where that point is in the available width of lane is not an exact science, but any line that ensures the rider's body/head is inside their own lane is a good start.

[Katman]

Apex. N. Top. Peak. Highest point
Apexing. V. Summiting. Arriving at the highest point.

So - for the terminally stupid - if a rider is not on top of their game, they are not (being) safe. So there. :banana:


Actually, the apex in a corner is simply the point where the rider stops ENTERING the corner and begins EXITING that corner. Where that point is in the available width of lane is not an exact science, but any line that ensures the rider's body/head is inside their own lane is a good start.

If only that was what you meant John.

[MSTRS]

If only that was what you meant John.

It is. But since you are the god of assumption, please tell us mere mortals what YOU thought I meant.

[Katman]

It is. But since you are the god of assumption, please tell us mere mortals what YOU thought I meant.

Not such a great taste having someone put words in your mouth, is it John?

[MSTRS]

I'm tasting a hint of bullshit...:nono:

[Katman]

I'm tasting a hint of bullshit...:nono:

I'm sure you're used to the flavour.

[MSTRS]

I'm sure you're used to the flavour.

Should be by now, but I am a bit tired of your one-dish repertoire...

[haydes55]

I see some flaws in the diagrams everyone has drawn up, so I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride.

Everyone seems to want to try emulate the classic idea of a racing line, entering and exiting a corner wide.

I try exit a corner as close to the inside as possible for a few reasons, mostly because it allows me far more options incase of the unexpected and because in the majority of situations any corner is often followed by a corner turning the opposite direction so my line puts me in the correct place to enter the next corner



You'll have to excuse my lack of ability with MS paint but here is a rough representation of what I do on the road.

The yellow line represents the centreline, the green line is the line I would use turning right and the blue line is the line I would use turning left
]





Apart from the fact my bike can't just do 90 degree turns on the spot I actually have done corners that way before, tonight I really thought about those lines as I rode the back roads through karaka towards Pukekohe and it felt smooth and I didn't have to worry about drifting wide or anything on corner exit, so right from mid corner I can start scanning the next corner for hazards and ideal lines etc.


Also from earlier today riding on wet roads (with diesel spills all over the place!), I stayed in the center of the two tire tracks, the tire tracks were shiny and the center wasn't. Would you rather risk hitting debris but being clear of shiny road, or ride shiny wet road and avoid possible debris?

[george formby]

Also from earlier today riding on wet roads (with diesel spills all over the place!), I stayed in the center of the two tire tracks, the tire tracks were shiny and the center wasn't. Would you rather risk hitting debris but being clear of shiny road, or ride shiny wet road and avoid possible debris?

There in lies the rub. Your road position should be the most appropriate for identifying & avoiding hazards. Skid demons are hazards, the sooner you see one the more time you have to decide the next safest bit of road to be on to get to the next safest bit of road etc.

I'm ceaselessly amazed that even though riding in the rain feels very different to the dry, more focus on road surface and a slightly higher pucker factor whenever I check the speedo my speed is the same as it would be in the dry. Even in the rain at night.

I guess I,m constantly slow.

[Ocean1]

I'm ceaselessly amazed that even though riding in the rain feels very different to the dry, more focus on road surface and a slightly higher pucker factor whenever I check the speedo my speed is the same as it would be in the dry.

I read in some Michelin blurb that most manufacturers' high silicone compounds were good in the wet for well over 90% of dry grip on the same patch of lab "road".

But I'm pickin' most seasoned riders will appreciate there's a shitload more difference than that on even slightly fuel contaminated surfaces.

So the question of whether to ride in the wet on the shiny car wheel tracks or the oily middle line isn't as straightforward as some suggest. Having said that the choice for any given patch of road seems obvious at the time.



Right up to the point where you feel the back slither away...

[george formby]

I read in some Michelin blurb that most manufacturers' high silicone compounds were good in the wet for well over 90% of dry grip on the same patch of lab "road".

But I'm pickin' most seasoned riders will appreciate there's a shitload more difference than that on even slightly fuel contaminated surfaces.

So the question of whether to ride in the wet on the shiny car wheel tracks or the oily middle line isn't as straightforward as some suggest. Having said that the choice for any given patch of road seems obvious at the time.



Right up to the point where you feel the back slither away...

Yeah, if you have to lean, lean on the grippiest bit. My rear tire does not do "rain". Any sub par road surface & it steps out very easily. Even taking that into account my progress does not really change. I am ever so tentative on the throttle at times.

[T.W.R]

Shamelessly taken from a series of articles compiled for an aussie mag by a Stay Upright instructor showing their explanation and instruction for their rider courses held at Eastern creek on cornering techniques.

The road line explanation sums it all up for anything on the road.

Concentrating on visibility and allowing yourself maximum choice for what is ahead ;)

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=291951&d=1388869884

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=291952&d=1388869921

[george formby]

Concentrating on visibility and allowing yourself maximum choice for what is ahead ;)


Noicely putt.

[MSTRS]

Green line looks pretty good to me...leads to less brown lines.

[SMOKEU]

I'm ceaselessly amazed that even though riding in the rain feels very different to the dry, more focus on road surface and a slightly higher pucker factor whenever I check the speedo my speed is the same as it would be in the dry. Even in the rain at night.

I guess I,m constantly slow.

I'm not quite so brave. I slow down a fair bit during the rain.


I read in some Michelin blurb that most manufacturers' high silicone compounds were good in the wet for well over 90% of dry grip on the same patch of lab "road".



On wet roads the tyres will be colder, and cold sports tyres don't grip well, so combined with the wet conditions I thought grip would be less than half in the wet compared to dry conditions.

[Ocean1]

On wet roads the tyres will be colder, and cold sports tyres don't grip well, so combined with the wet conditions I thought grip would be less than half in the wet compared to dry conditions.

All the more reason not to use sports tyres where they're not designed to be used.

[caspernz]

I read in some Michelin blurb that most manufacturers' high silicone compounds were good in the wet for well over 90% of dry grip on the same patch of lab "road".

But I'm pickin' most seasoned riders will appreciate there's a shitload more difference than that on even slightly fuel contaminated surfaces.

So the question of whether to ride in the wet on the shiny car wheel tracks or the oily middle line isn't as straightforward as some suggest. Having said that the choice for any given patch of road seems obvious at the time.

Right up to the point where you feel the back slither away...

In theory there's loads of grip available even in the wet, but yup it's them variables of surface contamination and just shiny shite that makes life hard.

And yeah sport vs sport touring tyres feel a little different in the wet, but given most of us ease off a bit anyway in the wet, the hoohaa about tyre temps is less important than keeping smooth and steady progress.

[SMOKEU]

All the more reason not to use sports tyres where they're not designed to be used.

I do want to get into track days though. I have ridden with a PP 2CT on the rear and a PP up front in the rain before, and I could corner surprisingly fast with no sign of slippage. I was just more smooth than usual, and corners could easily be taken at 1/3 more speed than the advisory speed for that corner, which is fast enough for me in the rain.

[Grubber]

I do want to get into track days though. I have ridden with a PP 2CT on the rear and a PP up front in the rain before, and I could corner surprisingly fast with no sign of slippage. I was just more smooth than usual, and corners could easily be taken at 1/3 more speed than the advisory speed for that corner, which is fast enough for me in the rain.

Iv'e ridden track days on 2ct and they are fine. Drop the pressures and tehy grip just fine and yea they are pretty reasonable in the wet too. just chuck in a few more pounds of air and they start gripping in the wet again.

[george formby]

I'm not quite so brave. I slow down a fair bit during the rain.
.


I feel as if I am, too, hence my amazement when I check the speedo. I use less throttle, less brakes & a bit less lean but my progress is the same. Can't quite figure out why.

[SMOKEU]

Iv'e ridden track days on 2ct and they are fine. Drop the pressures and tehy grip just fine and yea they are pretty reasonable in the wet too. just chuck in a few more pounds of air and they start gripping in the wet again.

Suzuki recommend 36 psi for both tyres. I run the front at 36 psi and the rear at 38 psi. What's the reasoning behind more pressure for the wet? Is that because they don't heat up as much, and therefore the pressure doesn't increase as much, so they need more (cold) pressure in order to maintain a suitable warm pressure?

Also, for cold weather in winter, should I run more pressure, like an extra 2 psi? Or less pressure so they warm up faster?

[MSTRS]

I feel as if I am, too, hence my amazement when I check the speedo. I use less throttle, less brakes & a bit less lean but my progress is the same. Can't quite figure out why.

Is 'cos you is smooooother.

Ever heard of Pace riding? Seems you are doing just that in the wet.

[george formby]

Is 'cos you is smooooother.

Ever heard of Pace riding? Seems you are doing just that in the wet.

Not heard of pace riding but you nailed where my head is at. Oy also tink that I concentrate slightly more in the wet and so am more aware of what I'm doing. Obviously a bit less concern with throttle & brakes in the dry but my input must be similar.

[MSTRS]

Not heard of pace riding but you nailed where my head is at. Oy also tink that I concentrate slightly more in the wet and so am more aware of what I'm doing. Obviously a bit less concern with throttle & brakes in the dry but my input must be similar.

Well, now you have. You homework is to google the hell out of the term and read all you can, then go practice the hell out of it all the time, wet or dry. Your tyres will last longer, your bike will use less fuel, you'll forget the last time you replaced your brake pads etc - and you'll still be as fast as your mates.
My theory is the throttle makes you go fast/er, so why not use it to slow as well? Brakes are for stopping or emergencies. AND if you pay more attention (your words...'more aware') like you should anyway, you'll have even less emergency braking requirement. 'ear wot oi'm sayin' guv?

[Grubber]

Suzuki recommend 36 psi for both tyres. I run the front at 36 psi and the rear at 38 psi. What's the reasoning behind more pressure for the wet? Is that because they don't heat up as much, and therefore the pressure doesn't increase as much, so they need more (cold) pressure in order to maintain a suitable warm pressure?

Also, for cold weather in winter, should I run more pressure, like an extra 2 psi? Or less pressure so they warm up faster?

More pressure opens up the tread and allows it to grip in the wet as opposed to low pressure, that allows the tyre to heat up more due to the extra movement a softer pressure creates, therefore more grip in the dry.
Would say you really don't need to lower pressure for day to day road riding unless you intend to go at warp factor 9 on the road. Generally the low pressure bit is for more when you are balls out on the track that it starts to work at it's best. Low pressure tyres will warm up the most and allow the rubber to get nice and sticky.
So running at the pressures you have indicated would be fine in the wet.
Hot on the track you can run as low as 28 in both just fine.

Does this explain it ok?

[SMOKEU]

More pressure opens up the tread and allows it to grip in the wet as opposed to low pressure, that allows the tyre to heat up more due to the extra movement a softer pressure creates, therefore more grip in the dry.
Would say you really don't need to lower pressure for day to day road riding unless you intend to go at warp factor 9 on the road. Generally the low pressure bit is for more when you are balls out on the track that it starts to work at it's best. Low pressure tyres will warm up the most and allow the rubber to get nice and sticky.
So running at the pressures you have indicated would be fine in the wet.
Hot on the track you can run as low as 28 in both just fine.

Does this explain it ok?

Yup, that explains it well. Thanks.

[Metastable]

I don't take any notice of theory. I just choose the best looking piece of road and try to stick to that.

I am also a little averse to getting too close to the centre line given the number of cars that cross the centre when cornering - usually when they are in a right hander.

Most of the tyre tracks around here are shiny as hell through tar melt, so I like to avoid those too.

What he said!

[cowboyz]

More pressure opens up the tread and allows it to grip in the wet as opposed to low pressure, that allows the tyre to heat up more due to the extra movement a softer pressure creates, therefore more grip in the dry.
Would say you really don't need to lower pressure for day to day road riding unless you intend to go at warp factor 9 on the road. Generally the low pressure bit is for more when you are balls out on the track that it starts to work at it's best. Low pressure tyres will warm up the most and allow the rubber to get nice and sticky.
So running at the pressures you have indicated would be fine in the wet.
Hot on the track you can run as low as 28 in both just fine.

Does this explain it ok?

keeping in mind that race tyres and road tyres ate designed to operate at different temp. a race tyres will be nice and happy on the track at 80c but a road tyre will be cooking at that and be slippery as hell. so while the lower pressure equals more heat equals more grip is true if you go too far you'll Bugger your tyres and have the reverse effect

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Grubber]

keeping in mind that race tyres and road tyres ate designed to operate at different temp. a race tyres will be nice and happy on the track at 80c but a road tyre will be cooking at that and be slippery as hell. so while the lower pressure equals more heat equals more grip is true if you go too far you'll Bugger your tyres and have the reverse effect

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Also very true. Thanks for adding!

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[MrItalian]

Those are definitely race lines.
I generally ride to the outside line dependant on road surface. Then use that outside to allow me to have good visibility through the corner and then my apex would possibly be out from centre line when i roll into the corner.
No sense in tempting fate with on coming car cutting the corner.
Seem to get through the corners smoothly enough and quick enough to stay out of trouble.


I read an article in a British bike mag years ago which said the same thing. Remarkably little in it all things considered.

Watch you vanishing point, give your self as much time & space into the corner as possible, apex when you see the exit. Done. Next corner.


I think it is such an individual thing. I got good value from Keith Codes "twist of the wrist 1&2". Got me consciencely scanning ahead, judging road conds, looking for hazards and braking and turning markers in an effort to make my lines less random.


I see some flaws in the diagrams everyone has drawn up, so I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride.
Everyone seems to want to try emulate the classic idea of a racing line, entering and exiting a corner wide.
I try exit a corner as close to the inside as possible for a few reasons, mostly because it allows me far more options incase of the unexpected and because in the majority of situations any corner is often followed by a corner turning the opposite direction so my line puts me in the correct place to enter the next corner

You'll have to excuse my lack of ability with MS paint but here is a rough representation of what I do on the road.
The yellow line represents the centreline, the green line is the line I would use turning right and the blue line is the line I would use turning left
291880


+1 on your advises :headbang: