Is there no F3 currently at Nats?

[neil_cb125t]

i see there is timing for pro twins....

[tail_end_charlie]

i see there is timing for pro twins....

Superlite (new name for F3) is running with 125GP in a combined race.

[neil_cb125t]

wow very cool they have enough pro twins, though I would have thought you would put SVs/pro twins in with f3 so 125s have their own class. All good stuff thou. They only doing one race per day now too??

[ellipsis]

...Tyler showed his exponentially increasing race skills in that mix...cool stuff...

[quickbuck]

Too many pain killers for you this year Neil?
There is one race on the Saturday and 2 on Sunday for ALL classes Including 600 and Supers.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[codgyoleracer]

F3 ?, whats that ?

[wayne]

f3 was it for fast old guys ?

[Robert Taylor]

f3 was it for fast old guys ?

For those with identity crises yes!

What I am failing to understand is how the winning commuter bike on its way through the 125 field ( that started before it ) was able to outbrake ALL 125s from the tail end through to the pointy end of the field. A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.

Sure that commuter bike has got Ohlins road and track forks on it ( that are not race spec forks by any means) but its still a heavy old commuter bike with lack of front end weight loading compared to a true racebike.

[wayne]

maybe rider ability.......
sometimes that counts




but so does fuel

[Robert Taylor]

maybe rider ability.......
sometimes that counts




but so does fuel

I thought it an entirely fair question as it was extremely visible.

Yes , hydrocarbons are important when mixed in correct quantity with oxygen molecules

[koba]

A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.


Being short and light doesn't actually help braking all that much...

[Mental Trousers]

The way a rider brakes has to do with the way they get into a corner. 125GP riders need corner speed so they brake earlier and lighter than someone on a commuter.

[Grumph]

Being short and light doesn't actually help braking all that much...

particularly with a gale up your arse.....and enough sail area given the low mass of the 125's to easily get one up on the foils....or over.

[Shaun Harris]

The way a rider brakes has to do with the way they get into a corner. 125GP riders need corner speed so they brake earlier and lighter than someone on a commuter.






very wrong dude, LATER and Harder and off them sooner

[quickbuck]

What I am failing to understand is how the winning commuter bike on its way through the 125 field ( that started before it ) was able to outbrake ALL 125s from the tail end through to the pointy end of the field. A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.

Sure that commuter bike has got Ohlins road and track forks on it ( that are not race spec forks by any means) but its still a heavy old commuter bike with lack of front end weight loading compared to a true racebike.
Well... he never got past Tyler in R2 or R3..... But fair question....
Yup, a great ride to come from a delayed start like that.....

I will have to ask the 125 riders hat the heck they are up to next time I see them! In my day the 125's were equal with F3....
Then F3 was 400cc 4 cylinder bikes in those days....

[Robert Taylor]

very wrong dude, LATER and Harder and off them sooner

And there was also a disparity in corner speed.

[budda]

And there was also a disparity in corner speed.

NOW you're just being naughty ........

[Shaun Harris]

And there was also a disparity in corner speed.







I noticed that with some one else in a different class, his forks looked like Crap!

[budda]

I noticed that with some one else in a different class, his forks looked like Crap!

and now YOU'RE being naughty ........

[Shaun Harris]

and now YOU'RE being naughty ........










only tell the truth and speak my mind, and Robert knows the product and forks and rider I am talking about, not into naming names no need to go down that path.

[budda]

only tell the truth and speak my mind, and Robert knows the product and forks and rider I am talking about, not into naming names no need to go down that path.

Agreed ....... lookin forward to seeing you on the mighty minge-ah !!!!!!!!!

[Shaun Harris]

Agreed ....... lookin forward to seeing you on the mighty minge-ah !!!!!!!!!







Cheers, will be cool and lots of fun, I guess he must have told you then? Im not saying anything untill it is all 100%

[budda]

Cheers, will be cool and lots of fun, I guess he must have told you then? Im not saying anything untill it is all 100%

There are those perpetuating the blatant untruth that 2fiddys is a "nursery" or "learners" class .....
nothing could be further from the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will L O V E it !!!!!!!!!!!

[Shaun Harris]

There are those perpetuating the blatant untruth that 2fiddys is a "nursery" or "learners" class .....
nothing could be further from the truth !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will L O V E it !!!!!!!!!!!





I can see the fast boys are VERY bloody fast on them, it will be hard to take an arse kicking from them, but hey, what the hell.

[budda]

I can see the fast boys are VERY bloody fast on them, it will be hard to take an arse kicking from them, but hey, what the hell.

At least you're a bit closer to the racing whitebaits body mass, unlike the 90kg+ Masters Class.
I'd love to see a minimum combined bike and rider weight, but getting a full-sized pack full of lead ingots on over their leathers might be a bit of a struggle for some of the young 'uns - easier to take a Pillion !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[codgyoleracer]

For those with identity crises yes!

What I am failing to understand is how the winning commuter bike on its way through the 125 field ( that started before it ) was able to outbrake ALL 125s from the tail end through to the pointy end of the field. A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.

Sure that commuter bike has got Ohlins road and track forks on it ( that are not race spec forks by any means) but its still a heavy old commuter bike with lack of front end weight loading compared to a true racebike.


I tend to agree, but then i am observing from afar

[Robert Taylor]

I tend to agree, but then i am observing from afar

I think its a totally fair thing to ask and then address in a workmanlike manner. I.e why did it appear that the braking speed and corner speed of most of the 125s has raised questions? This has only come about as a ''reality check'' given the way a top level national Superbike rider on a well developed commuter bike caught and sithed his way through the 125 field.... This is not to create trouble, it is a brutally honest observation.

[Robert Taylor]

I noticed that with some one else in a different class, his forks looked like Crap!

Yes I know the cure for it.

But given that Im single handedly looking after 6 top level Superbikes there is no time available to effect that cure.

[JayRacer37]

I think its a totally fair thing to ask and then address in a workmanlike manner. I.e why did it appear that the braking speed and corner speed of most of the 125s has raised questions? This has only come about as a ''reality check'' given the way a top level national Superbike rider on a well developed commuter bike caught and sithed his way through the 125 field.... This is not to create trouble, it is a brutally honest observation.

It seemed that was the case when I was racing 125's. I can remember Midge and I having our arses kicked at Teretonga in the Southern Spirit of Speed race by Terry, Gimpy et al on good F3 bikes - one of them the very bike in question here. In fact to beat them you needed a 250GP bike which I did the next year ;)

[codgyoleracer]

It seemed that was the case when I was racing 125's. I can remember Midge and I having our arses kicked at Teretonga in the Southern Spirit of Speed race by Terry, Gimpy et al on good F3 bikes - one of them the very bike in question here. In fact to beat them you needed a 250GP bike which I did the next year ;)

I agree, - a similar spec 125 against a similar spec F3 bike, with good rider, RESULT F3 bike a little bit quicker (as per the lap records mostly suggest), not by much though, espeicially at the tighter tracks like Levels aye Jay.

[JayRacer37]

I agree, - a similar spec 125 against a similar spec F3 bike, with good rider, RESULT F3 bike a little bit quicker (as per the lap records mostly suggest), not by much though, espeicially at the tighter tracks like Levels aye Jay.

For sure. Mostly in a straight line though, my first year down there I seized at the end of the first lap as I got such a big draft from the F3 bikes it got a big over-rev and nipped up. I never got to ride a 125 at levels, that was when we had A and B events and the Levels ones were just SBK and 600 with the cars.

[steveyb]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.
Even as Jay has suggested, at the time he and Midge were developing riders, Terry, Gimpy et al were seasoned racers on very good motorcycles.
While our current top 3-5 125GP riders are good riders, they are still developing riders. They simply do not have the experience of Hayden, who is also riding one of the best developed bikes in NZ, commuter or not. I think many of us tend to forget how long Hayden has been racing motorcycles and at what levels.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you, but 1:40's at Ruapuna on 125GP is not too shabby really, regardless of braking performance. I think there is also the case to be made that 125GP and Superlite braking are quite different with Superlite rushing the corners as they can slow down more and use engine to drive out. 125 on the other hand needs to maintain corner speed so brake less, so it ends up that the Superlite goes past them on the brakes, but I would suggest that 125 corner speed will be greater.

[quickbuck]

Yes it is easy to forget Hayden's experience. Spyda thinks he is 28.... He hasn't been that for a couple of years now.
I will add that the goal is to win the race in the slowest possible time....... And yeah I would say that if we had Troy G back here Tyler, Rogan et al would have to find some more pace.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[budda]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you .

Which is why they should get their bottooooms on2fiddy proddy bikes and learn the art of going fast as opposed to riding hard - as you say Steve, the tendency is to raise your own performance to match the opposition, and there is no shortage of that at either end of that field

If we could only get 250's that sound like a MOTORCYCLE instead of a duckfart, they'd be perfect

[Mental Trousers]

If we could only get 250's that sound like a MOTORCYCLE instead of a duckfart, they'd be perfect

Shame nobody does a vee four 250 eh ;)

[quickbuck]

To be fair Budda, Tyler was quite fast on a 150. Rogan was very fast on a 150, even beating Jock after a couple of looks at a new track. Aaron Hassan and I used to have fantastic battles on the 250 until I broke... He did 125s for a time now on a 600.
Marc has campaigned a 250 all winter.... And Roman has been on one too, although not strictly a 250 Production bike.... The trouble is to keep these kids in one class for a while as they all want to get on big bikes that have more recognition....
I have had mine for 3 short years and love racing against the young guys and girls. I'm with you that 250 Production needs more status.... Jake, Bailie and Luke are doing no damage in that department I have to say.

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[300weatherby]

For those with identity crises yes!

What I am failing to understand is how the winning commuter bike on its way through the 125 field ( that started before it ) was able to outbrake ALL 125s from the tail end through to the pointy end of the field. A 125 GP bike should pretty much be able to outbrake everything.

Sure that commuter bike has got Ohlins road and track forks on it ( that are not race spec forks by any means) but its still a heavy old commuter bike with lack of front end weight loading compared to a true racebike.

Crikey!, you gotta wonder how good it would be with K-Tec gear on it, be able to scare the 600 class with it then!:whistle:

[Robert Taylor]

Crikey!, you gotta wonder how good it would be with K-Tec gear on it, be able to scare the 600 class with it then!:whistle:

Of course and I venture to mention that for all the hype,the giveaways and the practically no margin stupid deals the brand you mention failed to win anything in Superbike, 600 or F3 over the weekend. So its not exactly the ''hallelujah this is the second coming of Christ'' that its cracked up to be. ( They may win races, if so good on them but we will continue to make them work hard for it!) Much has been copied off the people that spent all of the development money ( Ohlins ) Including the same mistakes. Dont challenge me on that, its a well known fact internationally in this industry.

Ask Ashley Payne about how disgruntled he is with the product, or more pointedly a dysmal inability or unwillingness to get it working properly. Id help him if I had the time and he had some cashflow to help pay for my very real costs in doing so. I have a full set of Copy Tech service tools and a sophisticated dyno. And also, why did a very top local Superbike rider switch back to Ohlins after trying the Pommy product? There is no doubt whatsoever that the product could have been recalibrated to totally suit that rider.

With the riders that we work with under contract we ask them what THEY want. Ive never raced or made up fantastic ripping yarns about MotoGP and other ventures. But I do understand suspension and chassis dynamics and will listen to people rather than dictating to them and embellishing the conversation with lots of lies, including ''the 3 or more countries I was born in'' Get the picture? Maybe more of us just shouldnt suffer fools and what is BRAZEN BULLSHIT.

Its a good product but a tainted one being done no justice in terms of the overall spectrum of local backup . Its more than about selling lots of product here and I believe everywhere in disrepectful open slather.

[Robert Taylor]

I would suggest it is mostly down to the levels of the riders in question.
Even as Jay has suggested, at the time he and Midge were developing riders, Terry, Gimpy et al were seasoned racers on very good motorcycles.
While our current top 3-5 125GP riders are good riders, they are still developing riders. They simply do not have the experience of Hayden, who is also riding one of the best developed bikes in NZ, commuter or not. I think many of us tend to forget how long Hayden has been racing motorcycles and at what levels.

With a couple more years of hard development riding the top 125GP riders would be much faster than they are now, but I fear that is unlikely to happen due to them either moving class, stopping altogether, 125GP dying in NZ or all of the above, not to mention that you only tend to ride as fast as the competition pushes you, but 1:40's at Ruapuna on 125GP is not too shabby really, regardless of braking performance. I think there is also the case to be made that 125GP and Superlite braking are quite different with Superlite rushing the corners as they can slow down more and use engine to drive out. 125 on the other hand needs to maintain corner speed so brake less, so it ends up that the Superlite goes past them on the brakes, but I would suggest that 125 corner speed will be greater.

As ever a very reasoned analysis Steve!

[SWERVE]

Which is why they should get their bottooooms on2fiddy proddy bikes and learn the art of going fast as opposed to riding hard - as you say Steve, the tendency is to raise your own performance to match the opposition, and there is no shortage of that at either end of that field

Absobloodylutely........... Think of the talent in 125 put into that 250 field............ not only a big grid....but hard racing all through the field. Be like a large flock of ducks farting together:laugh:

[budda]

.... The trouble is to keep these kids in one class for a while as they all want to get on big bikes that have more recognition....


.

The TROUBLE is that so many are told by "experts" that that's the career path to World domination ........ I've said it before, and I make no apology for saying it again, we have in the past and currently continue to churn out some very good motorbike riders - but until they get some battles under their belts, those with the talent will not become good RACERS.

There is a very small, subtle, but fundamental difference ..... for some, if not most, it takes a while for the penny to drop and take the step up to that level. Which is where regular hard competition comes in, and 250 Proddy has that in spades

[Shaun Harris]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me:Punk:

[Robert Taylor]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me:Punk:

Indeed, (at the risk of again incurring Billys wrath) followed closely by a CBR500RR development class modelled on EJC500. Where chassis and suspension setup skills can be honed

[codgyoleracer]

This 250 class is the best thing I have seen done for NZ racing in years, and full credit to all involved in creating it. As last weekends results shows, NZ has huge talent out there. Jake Lewis, WORLD CHAMPION ( or bloody close to that in his class) gets pushed extremely hard by young very inexperienced fellow racers, man what a show that was to watch ( Thanks C-Tas)

This class is very cost effective, and is the way forward to draw in more new talent, and a great starting class for younger riders from the dirt scene that may want a change of racing.

It,s only a 250 ( Haha) maybe that will let MUM relax a bit and not stop DAD from the spending the money on there Boy or Girl.

KAWASAKI 250 DEVELOPMENT CLASS

mmmmmm, sounds like a great Marketing name to me:Punk:


Agreed, not to take anything away from the other races of the day which were great. The 1st 250 race was one of the best ive watched for a while (in respect to cut-n-thrust), Well done Jake, Bailie, Luke.

[budda]

Indeed, (at the risk of again incurring Billys wrath) followed closely by a CBR500RR development class modelled on EJC500. Where chassis and suspension setup skills can be honed

Chassis and suspension setup ability ARE vital for progression - but to attempt to teach that to someone who is unable to / incapable of giving the right feedback due to inexperience is futile.

A 600 rider whose laptimes vary by seconds when testing is NOT going to make the right progress, is he ?........ GOOD setup allows laptimes to come down incrementally, and inconsistency with the organic component remains a major stumbling block, doesnt it Doc ?

Until the wee Johnnys are consistently lapping at close to the sameish times, improvements are limited to "feel", and inexperience tends to make even that hard to quantify

I'm NOT against your suggestion Doc, only saying that the Jockey is a vital part of the equation, and some good, clean,consistently hard racing will hone skills that will enable him / her to fully utilise the skills of those helping them

[Shaun Harris]

Indeed, (at the risk of again incurring Billys wrath) followed closely by a CBR500RR development class modelled on EJC500. Where chassis and suspension setup skills can be honed




sorry Robert But I disagree with that one. Once you have honed your skills on a 250, there is NO need to carry on with the basics of learning in a class that has NO CLASS to race in. So next step is 600z for the ones that want to move on and challenge the best in our country) where the suspension and chassis learning kicks in. One season running basically a std motor to keep costs down whilst getting the best out of chassis suspension rider, then next season motor electrics etc ( NOT A SEPERATE CLASS)

And many many Parents would not invest in there kids racing a 500 ( Way to scary for the parents) so it defeats the point of a development class really.

I will be racing NINJA 250 at Manfield for FUN FUN FUN, I have not told the owner of the bike yet, but I do not intend on taking any points in the races I will be in, I will pull over before the chequered flag so as not to muck up all the riders points situations for them.

And will be FULLY making myself availlable to any rider that may want some advice! ( If I have any to give of course haha)

Currently working on a plan to have 4 of these bikes next year to use as lease development bikes for riders wanting to start out, NOT FOR OLD MEN LIKE ME!

[budda]

sorry Robert But I disagree with that one. Once you have honed your skills on a 250, there is NO need to carry on with the basics of learning in a class that has NO CLASS to race in. So next step is 600z for the ones that want to move on and challenge the best in our country) where the suspension and chassis learning kicks in. One season running basically a std motor to keep costs down whilst getting the best out of chassis suspension rider, then next season motor electrics etc ( NOT A SEPERATE CLASS)

And many many Parents would not invest in there kids racing a 500 ( Way to scary for the parents) so it defeats the point of a development class really.

I will be racing NINJA 250 at Manfield for FUN FUN FUN, I have not told the owner of the bike yet, but I do not intend on taking any points in the races I will be in, I will pull over before the chequered flag so as not to muck up all the riders points situations for them.

And will be FULLY making myself availlable to any rider that may want some advice! ( If I have any to give of course haha)

Currently working on a plan to have 4 of these bikes next year to use as lease development bikes for riders wanting to start out, NOT FOR OLD MEN LIKE ME!

Agreed with you up til the last bit Gremlin ....... like it or not, the current generation see it as their RIGHT not to be TOLD anything !!!!!!!!!! But past experience in Streetstocks AND 250's has proven that when Old heads SHOW them on track, they are quick to pick up the lesson and apply it to their own riding ......

Just as in the old Clubman vs nationals racing argument ... the more times the fast guys pass you, the more chances you have of LEARNING from them ........

[Shaun Harris]

Agreed with you up til the last bit Gremlin ....... like it or not, the current generation see it as their RIGHT not to be TOLD anything !!!!!!!!!! But past experience in Streetstocks AND 250's has proven that when Old heads SHOW them on track, they are quick to pick up the lesson and apply it to their own riding ......

Just as in the old Clubman vs nationals racing argument ... the more times the fast guys pass you, the more chances you have of LEARNING from them ........



Current generation as a generalisation YES! But a keen young rider with family money backing, does what they are told to do or get told to fuck off home and mow the lawns again and again and again, or blody well should be any way.

Hey, what BRIDGESTONE is the best trye to use on the 250?

[budda]

Current generation as a generalisation YES! But a keen young rider with family money backing, does what they are told to do or get told to fuck off home and mow the lawns again and again and again, or blody well should be any way.

Hey, what BRIDGESTONE is the best trye to use on the 250?

AGREED

003RS are the go, great all rounders that last really well and stick right to the end of their life.
"Other" brands have suitable rubber too, but you know where my loyalty lies ........
Jay is driving that side of things, and doing a great job by all accounts. Putoline and Goldfren are also de-rigeur

Odds are your "victims" bike will already have 'em on ........

[Shaun Harris]

AGREED

003RS are the go, great all rounders that last really well and stick right to the end of their life.
"Other" brands have suitable rubber too, but you know where my loyalty lies ........
Jay is driving that side of things, and doing a great job by all accounts. Putoline and Goldfren are also de-rigeur

Odds are your "victims" bike will already have 'em on ........







I WILL be using BRIDGESTONE 4 Sure

[budda]

I WILL be using BRIDGESTONE 4 Sure

Well Done - Carry on ..........

[quickbuck]

, but I do not intend on taking any points in the races I will be in, I will pull over before the chequered flag so as not to muck up all the riders points situations for them.



Agree with much of what you are saying Shaun, but DO NOT be doing this bit... Besides you have to actually be up there to be able to pull over.
I have absolutely every intention of taking points of people who have completed the whole series..... If they aren't good enough to get past me (or you) then they clearly do not deserve the points... After all we all pay the same entry fee do we not?? That is Motorsport!

Also, loose the word Development I reckon. I hate it. Yes we are developing skills in young and not so young (but may well be not as experienced) racers, BUT I think the Class should be recognised as purely 250 Production, and that brand can stand up all by itself in ANY series!

Heck, the cagers don't call it the Suzuki Swift DEVELOPMENT Series do they?
Nor do they call the Racket 150 Class in Karts Development.....

But yeah, I reckon if there is a rider who wins 250 Production National Class here, there is no reason he can't go to Australia and compete with those boys.
After all the best rider gets the most out of a bike when they are all essentially the same......

[SWERVE]

So great to come onto KB and actually here the riders of 250 being praised for their efforts:Punk: Instead of a "bitch fight" about whose bike is legal and whos isn't. Probebly because the people on hear can actually distinguish talent by watching a race............... rather than saying HP wins.
Riding bikes is like any other sport or anything requiring hard work / effort / understanding to achieve. I believe those that want it bad enough will shine through regardless of the class or pathway they take. Yes there are proven paths with regards to which bike you hop onto next to make the full use of the skills you already have.
But I believe the RIDER themselves plays the biggest part of all. They have to want to be the best......plain and simple. They also have to be prepared to forsake everything else to get to that goal. Those that LISTEN to what being told and are prepared to take that advice will progress fastest. People who know will spot those people a mile away. Jake has been prepared to do this:done: and in doing so has gained the respect and further assistance of some very knowledgable people and sponsorship also. Those people can then guide them along that path with pride and confidence. Bailie is in the early stages of this. He has put in HUGE effort over the last 2 yrs........ listens to everything he is told (knows how to filter it) has gained sponsorship of his own back, trains everyday, has a strict diet, will ride anything that is given to him for extra tracktime, never packs a sad when it doesn't go his way..... eats/sleeps/lives racing. That is why he has surprised a few this year. He has amazing feel for what is happening to the bike beneath him for such an in-experienced rider. Although I have always said it is important to be able to give feedback it is a skill he has developed himself. His answer as to how he managed it " I train hard so im not tired, and most of all I just relax on the bike"
Yes im having a bit of a trumpet blowing session..... but I have reason too and last weekend was time to show everybody else............ its not a "one off" either....just wait until Levels and the other rounds.
Be great to have you out there Shaun:woohoo:
Have to say Pirelli all the way IMHO:bleh:

[SWERVE]

Agree with much of what you are saying Shaun, but DO NOT be doing this bit... Besides you have to actually be up there to be able to pull over.
I have absolutely every intention of taking points of people who have completed the whole series..... If they aren't good enough to get past me (or you) then they clearly do not deserve the points... After all we all pay the same entry fee do we not?? That is Motorsport!

Also, loose the word Development I reckon. I hate it. Yes we are developing skills in young and not so young (but may well be not as experienced) racers, BUT I think the Class should be recognised as purely 250 Production, and that brand can stand up all by itself in ANY series!

Heck, the cagers don't call it the Suzuki Swift DEVELOPMENT Series do they?
Nor do they call the Racket 150 Class in Karts Development.....

But yeah, I reckon if there is a rider who wins 250 Production National Class here, there is no reason he can't go to Australia and compete with those boys.
After all the best rider gets the most out of a bike when they are all essentially the same......

It is called 250 PRODUCTION:yes:
And you will not be taking points from the leaders .....................................:whistle:

[quickbuck]

It is called 250 PRODUCTION:yes:
And you will not be taking points from the leaders .....................................:whistle:
EXACKERY on both points.... I wasn't asking for a name change ;)

[budda]

So great to come onto KB and actually here the riders of 250 being praised for their efforts:Punk: Instead of a "bitch fight" about whose bike is legal and whos isn't. Probebly because the people on hear can actually distinguish talent by watching a race............... rather than saying HP wins.
Riding bikes is like any other sport or anything requiring hard work / effort / understanding to achieve. I believe those that want it bad enough will shine through regardless of the class or pathway they take. Yes there are proven paths with regards to which bike you hop onto next to make the full use of the skills you already have.
But I believe the RIDER themselves plays the biggest part of all. They have to want to be the best......plain and simple. They also have to be prepared to forsake everything else to get to that goal. Those that LISTEN to what being told and are prepared to take that advice will progress fastest. People who know will spot those people a mile away. Jake has been prepared to do this:done: and in doing so has gained the respect and further assistance of some very knowledgable people and sponsorship also. Those people can then guide them along that path with pride and confidence. Bailie is in the early stages of this. He has put in HUGE effort over the last 2 yrs........ listens to everything he is told (knows how to filter it) has gained sponsorship of his own back, trains everyday, has a strict diet, will ride anything that is given to him for extra tracktime, never packs a sad when it doesn't go his way..... eats/sleeps/lives racing. That is why he has surprised a few this year. He has amazing feel for what is happening to the bike beneath him for such an in-experienced rider. Although I have always said it is important to be able to give feedback it is a skill he has developed himself. His answer as to how he managed it " I train hard so im not tired, and most of all I just relax on the bike"
Yes im having a bit of a trumpet blowing session..... but I have reason too and last weekend was time to show everybody else............ its not a "one off" either....just wait until Levels and the other rounds.
Be great to have you out there Shaun:woohoo:
Have to say Pirelli all the way IMHO:bleh:

Have to change your name to Louis(Armstrong) !!!!!!! Pooorelli, pah .......

[richban]

So great to come onto KB and actually here the riders of 250 being praised for their efforts:Punk: Instead of a "bitch fight" about whose bike is legal and whos isn't. Probebly because the people on hear can actually distinguish talent by watching a race............... rather than saying HP wins.
Riding bikes is like any other sport or anything requiring hard work / effort / understanding to achieve. I believe those that want it bad enough will shine through regardless of the class or pathway they take. Yes there are proven paths with regards to which bike you hop onto next to make the full use of the skills you already have.
But I believe the RIDER themselves plays the biggest part of all. They have to want to be the best......plain and simple. They also have to be prepared to forsake everything else to get to that goal. Those that LISTEN to what being told and are prepared to take that advice will progress fastest. People who know will spot those people a mile away. Jake has been prepared to do this:done: and in doing so has gained the respect and further assistance of some very knowledgable people and sponsorship also. Those people can then guide them along that path with pride and confidence. Bailie is in the early stages of this. He has put in HUGE effort over the last 2 yrs........ listens to everything he is told (knows how to filter it) has gained sponsorship of his own back, trains everyday, has a strict diet, will ride anything that is given to him for extra tracktime, never packs a sad when it doesn't go his way..... eats/sleeps/lives racing. That is why he has surprised a few this year. He has amazing feel for what is happening to the bike beneath him for such an in-experienced rider. Although I have always said it is important to be able to give feedback it is a skill he has developed himself. His answer as to how he managed it " I train hard so im not tired, and most of all I just relax on the bike"
Yes im having a bit of a trumpet blowing session..... but I have reason too and last weekend was time to show everybody else............ its not a "one off" either....just wait until Levels and the other rounds.
Be great to have you out there Shaun:woohoo:
Have to say Pirelli all the way IMHO:bleh:

True words for sure. Well done to both you and Bailie. I really enjoyed the racing, the bits I got to see anyway. I will hopefully be there for the north island rounds in F3 on me new bike, if I can get it finished in time. I will be following the 250's closely for sure. :yes:

[quickbuck]

True words for sure. Well done to both you and Bailie. I really enjoyed the racing, the bits I got to see anyway. I will hopefully be there for the north island rounds in F3 on me new bike, if I can get it finished in time. I will be following the 250's closely for sure. :yes:

Good on you Rich.

[richban]

Good on you Rich.

Cheers Mate should be a blast. Now to the shed to rebuild some forks.

[Shaun Harris]

Agree with much of what you are saying Shaun, but DO NOT be doing this bit... Besides you have to actually be up there to be able to pull over.
I have absolutely every intention of taking points of people who have completed the whole series..... If they aren't good enough to get past me (or you) then they clearly do not deserve the points... After all we all pay the same entry fee do we not?? That is Motorsport!

Also, loose the word Development I reckon. I hate it. Yes we are developing skills in young and not so young (but may well be not as experienced) racers, BUT I think the Class should be recognised as purely 250 Production, and that brand can stand up all by itself in ANY series!

Heck, the cagers don't call it the Suzuki Swift DEVELOPMENT Series do they?
Nor do they call the Racket 150 Class in Karts Development.....

But yeah, I reckon if there is a rider who wins 250 Production National Class here, there is no reason he can't go to Australia and compete with those boys.
After all the best rider gets the most out of a bike when they are all essentially the same......












Re Points, if the bike owner agrees with my choice, I will be pulling over and letting all past me, ( Was not suggesting I would be leading, maybe in the top 3-8 Place) they invested in the championship and me taking points of them could effect there total outcome big time! I am only having some fun, but fair enough with your choice on that one man.

Re Development wording, that was just used as a way of showing a name that could be justified with Kawasaki to try and encourage a great race purchase price, it gives KAWASAKI a ROI for the discount!

Food for thought.

[Robert Taylor]

It has of course been discussed in another thread at length. But one of the major issues is that there is a huge leap jumping from a 250 to a 600. Arguably also from a Pro Twin, still undeniably a relatively ''crude'' form of motorcycle

i.e re 600s

1) Lots more power and a chassis that isnt a wobbly jelly

2) Sticky tyres that need replacing often and are one of the biggest ongoing expenditures

3) Heck its got lots of suspension adjustments, what do I do??

Etc Etc

So be it a EJC type class or whatever an inbetween class where the bike is a whole lot less intimidating, doesnt eat tyres with gay abandon, has a decent chassis and has enough suspension and chassis adjustment flexibility to MUCH BETTER PREPARE one for a graduation to 600 class etc.

A control class with on hand rider training and setup training. That was the mentality but the position of a race co-ordinator at Blue Wing Honda no longer exists. That is in part indicative that road racing for distributors is an ongoing loss and many people have ripped them off over the years. We should be VERY thankful for the level of support that still exists

[Shaun Harris]

It is called 250 PRODUCTION:yes:
And you will not be taking points from the leaders .....................................:whistle:



NO, cause they will be kicking my old arse

[Shaun Harris]

It has of course been discussed in another thread at length. But one of the major issues is that there is a huge leap jumping from a 250 to a 600. Arguably also from a Pro Twin, still undeniably a relatively ''crude'' form of motorcycle

i.e re 600s

1) Lots more power and a chassis that isnt a wobbly jelly

2) Sticky tyres that need replacing often and are one of the biggest ongoing expenditures

3) Heck its got lots of suspension adjustments, what do I do??

Etc Etc

So be it a EJC type class or whatever an inbetween class where the bike is a whole lot less intimidating, doesnt eat tyres with gay abandon, has a decent chassis and has enough suspension and chassis adjustment flexibility to MUCH BETTER PREPARE one for a graduation to 600 class etc.

A control class with on hand rider training and setup training. That was the mentality but the position of a race co-ordinator at Blue Wing Honda no longer exists. That is in part indicative that road racing for distributors is an ongoing loss and many people have ripped them off over the years. We should be VERY thankful for the level of support that still exists








Ok then, you put the proposal to Blue Wing to supply 20 units for the season FOC with a purchase price with payment being made 1 month after the last national round, and I will manage it and guide /train the riders?

without at least a Guarantee of 20 units, ( 5 units would be emergency spares) there is NO CLASS and NO where for them to race!

I here what you are saying Robert, and it would be brilliant racing.

[budda]

[QUOTE=quickbuck;1130660249]Agree with much of what you are saying Shaun, but DO NOT be doing this bit... Besides you have to actually be up there to be able to pull over.
I have absolutely every intention of taking points of people who have completed the whole series..... If they aren't good enough to get past me (or you) then they clearly do not deserve the points... After all we all pay the same entry fee do we not?? That is Motorsport!

Also, loose the word Development I reckon. I hate it. Yes we are developing skills in young and not so young (but may well be not as experienced) racers, BUT I think the Class should be recognised as purely 250 Production, and that brand can stand up all by itself in ANY series!

QUOTE]

AMEN

[budda]

EXACKERY on both points.... I wasn't asking for a name change ;)

Just KNEW if I lived long enough I'd eventually see some sense on here ...........

[Shaun Harris]

[QUOTE=budda;1130660279]Just KNEW if I lived long enough I'd eventually see some sense on here ...........[/










you are on Drugs and dreaming man and its not legal here yet

[Robert Taylor]

Ok then, you put the proposal to Blue Wing to supply 20 units for the season FOC with a purchase price with payment being made 1 month after the last national round, and I will manage it and guide /train the riders?

without at least a Guarantee of 20 units, ( 5 units would be emergency spares) there is NO CLASS and NO where for them to race!

I here what you are saying Robert, and it would be brilliant racing.

Through dealers, and they decide as they see fit . That was how BWH wanted it to run with some co-ordination on their part.

[jasonu]

There is a very small, subtle, but fundamental difference ..... for some, if not most, it takes a while for the penny to drop and take the step up to that level.

Agreed. About 5 years of racing does the trick IMO.