ZXR250C timing?

[Juniper]

Does anyone know intimately the ZXR250C 1994?

I had it all apart yesterday and its misfiring (among many thing) and the guy I was with said its to do with the timing.

Now it was set up when we opened her up as 1234 which is/should be wrong. His 1990 and the internets say it should be 1342 or 1243.
Now 1243 didn't really work, no misfire as such but absolutely no power and loud clunk noises happened.
The internets (plural as took the majority vote from many websites) say 1342 but the cables don't look like they go that way. The lead for the 2 is just too short and 3 is a slight stretch, and when we just managed to do it it wouldn't turn over.

Personally I think we are dealing with a mirrored dyslexic mechanic who put it together, because even though the plugs sat at 1234 the leads they are attached to came out the order of 4231.

Halp?

Strong possibility is that my bike may be a ZXR250C on the outside and frame but the motor and girly bits are something different.

[nzspokes]

What does the workshop manual say it should be? The clunk will be your pistons having the life hammered out of them due to incorrect firing order.

I would suggest following the workshop manual to the letter. If you don't have one, get one before you blow the motor.

If you blow the motor make sure you get it on video.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

1243 with #1 being the left most cylinder, as you sit on it
Or so Google says anyway
Good luck

[ducatilover]

It runs a waste spark system, one coil supplies cyls 1-4 and the other coil cyls 2-3
The LHS coil (from memory) is for cylinders 1 and 4


What exactly have you done to the bike?

[Akzle]

disconnect every shit. Take the valve cover off.
Turn the engine over by hand.
Watch.
Majikally, youre firing order will become apparent.

[Akzle]

It runs a waste spark system, one coil supplies cyls 1-4 and the other coil cyls 2-3
The LHS coil (from memory) is for cylinders 1 and 4


What exactly have you done to the bike?

LEFT. thats assuming no cunt has swapped the trigger leads over. And on the olden raped fuckery that is this 250... Wouldnt count on it. And i have a sneaky suspicion even the hts dont give any clues.

And i second a haynes/shop manual.

And why did you destroy it??

[Juniper]

What does the workshop manual say it should be? The clunk will be your pistons having the life hammered out of them due to incorrect firing order.

I would suggest following the workshop manual to the letter. If you don't have one, get one before you blow the motor.

If you blow the motor make sure you get it on video.


LEFT. thats assuming no cunt has swapped the trigger leads over. And on the olden raped fuckery that is this 250... Wouldnt count on it. And i have a sneaky suspicion even the hts dont give any clues.

And i second a haynes/shop manual.

And why did you destroy it??

Cylinder numbering method: 1234, firing order 1243

What's the numbering method? cause none of the holes or leads they come from are in the left to right order of 1234. (this is called learning!)
The only manual I've managed to find is for the ZXR250-C6 not sure what the 6 is about. and the picture shows pipes on both sides. The manual doesn't mention a year in it at all.


I didn't destroy it. I've been told I need new carbs so I found a set of second hand ones on trademe. Contacted the guy and he's said that as I've paid 2 groups of people and still no change that if he can't fix it I don't pay anything. And if he does its $400 including his carbs or $250 without no matter how much time he spends on it.

I figured it was a good deal, especially when we worked on it for 8hr. He took it for the test ride and wasn't happy with it so didn't want payment.
He's a good bloke so is doing some research at his end, because he likes fixing bikes and is intrigued by mine (as he used to have the 1990 version) and I'm doing my own research my end by asking you guys.

As long as my bike doesn't come back worse I'm happy to let him at it and he teaches me at the same time.

There is a very strong possibility that it has been used as a track bike at some point in its past.

[nzspokes]

Ring Alec from here, http://www.smebike.com/about_us

He will rebuild your carbs properly. He will know whats wrong with them once they are apart. he is one of the best carb guys ive come across. Dont use carbs from a different bike. Hes a motorcycle engineer so can make parts if needed.

[Akzle]

Cylinder numbering method: 1234, firing order 1243

What's the numbering method?

is from front of motor to back, as viewed in a line.
Ie, front (chain side) is one, next 2, 3 and otherside is 4.
Firing order just means those numbered cyls fire in that order.

[Juniper]

Ring Alec from here, http://www.smebike.com/about_us

He will rebuild your carbs properly. He will know whats wrong with them once they are apart. he is one of the best carb guys ive come across. Dont use carbs from a different bike. Hes a motorcycle engineer so can make parts if needed.

Making will possibly be an option because you cant get new parts apparently.

Does he charge the earth? Might be a venture for when I have a job.





//Warning child winge //
:baby: Its really hard to know who to trust with your bikes because everyone says that the other person is the best at this or that. "Spectrum are good" "George is the best" :weep:
//end winge//

[Akzle]

cause none of the holes or leads they come from are in the left to right order of 1234. (this is called learning!)

as duc said, you have 2 coil packs, each with 2 leads out, one will feed cyl 1,3, t'other cyl 2,4.
(and leads, plugs, shoulda been numbered before removing) firing order is determined by magneto pickup, so as long as the feed/trigger INTO the coils havent been swapped, shit should happen on time.
Hope carbs were balanced and jetted right. No amount of spark will help if they fuckered.

~edit~
actilly. Crank degrees should be same between all. So... Shouldnt matter if input swapped....?

[Juniper]

as duc said, you have 2 coil packs, each with 2 leads out, one will feed cyl 1,3, t'other cyl 2,4.
(and leads, plugs, shoulda been numbered before removing) firing order is determined by magneto pickup, so as long as the feed/trigger INTO the coils havent been swapped, shit should happen on time.
Hope carbs were balanced and jetted right. No amount of spark will help if they fuckered.

~edit~
actilly. Crank degrees should be same between all. So... Shouldnt matter if input swapped....?

We didn't end up taking the carbs out because found that the vacuum tubes were cracked and not sealed so hoped that would work, the rest of the day was spent on the timing. so balancing and jetting were last done by George.

Ahh yes coil packs is the name I was looking for. Yes the numbers that came out of them were 32 and 41 (left to right)

[nzspokes]

Making will possibly be an option because you cant get new parts apparently.

Does he charge the earth? Might be a venture for when I have a job.





//Warning child winge //
:baby: Its really hard to know who to trust with your bikes because everyone says that the other person is the best at this or that. "Spectrum are good" "George is the best" :weep:
//end winge//

Well he is the real deal and you will see race bikes there not just commuters. he doesnt work for free but he gets it right.

For jets from Honda that were $90 each he had them for $7. And needles from kawasaki that were no longer made he had new ones for $18.

[Akzle]

Ahh yes coil packs is the name I was looking for. Yes the numbers that came out of them were 32 and 41 (left to right)

bike left = left as if you were piloting the bike...

, so that's about right, just backwards AFAIC.
HTs go to corresponding cylinders....

[Akzle]

...the vacuum tubes were cracked...so balancing and jetting were last done by George.

time for another one, there may have been a minor airleak that was "tuned out". wiv everfing sealed up, sync with vacuum gague.

[Juniper]

bike left = left as if you were piloting the bike...

, so that's about right, just backwards AFAIC.
HTs go to corresponding cylinders....

yes left to right as if I'm sitting on it.

ARGH!!!!! More acronyms: HT's, LHS



time for another one, there may have been a minor airleak that was "tuned out". wiv everfing sealed up, sync with vacuum gague.

Another tube? Yeah we replaced that.

[Akzle]

yes left to right as if I'm sitting on it.

ARGH!!!!! More acronyms: HT's, LHS




Another tube? Yeah we replaced that.

high tension leads
left hand side.

[Akzle]

Another tube?

another tune*

[Katman]

you have 2 coil packs, each with 2 leads out, one will feed cyl 1,3, t'other cyl 2,4.


Don't give up your day job.

[ducatilover]

Cylinder numbering method: 1234, firing order 1243 what has been done to the timing? Only thing you can adjust one a ZXR is cam timing, which is a big fat no-no


What's the numbering method? cause none of the holes or leads they come from are in the left to right order of 1234. (this is called learning!) 1 is on the far left (gear lever side) and 4 is on the opposite side.


The only manual I've managed to find is for the ZXR250-C6 not sure what the 6 is about. and the picture shows pipes on both sides. The manual doesn't mention a year in it at all.
C6 is the restricted model ZXR, after 1993. But that's not really an issue.

[/QUOTE]I didn't destroy it. I've been told I need new carbs so I found a set of second hand ones on trademe. Contacted the guy and he's said that as I've paid 2 groups of people and still no change that if he can't fix it I don't pay anything. And if he does its $400 including his carbs or $250 without no matter how much time he spends on it. [/QUOTE]
Ask whomever said it to you, why exactly does it need new carbs? Only time you need carbs is when something is literally smashed, or the slide bores are worn.



I'd love to know what has been done with the timing, either spark or valve timing. That will help us keyboard warriors. The more details, the better.

8 hours on timing... :gob:


Back to the coils.
There are two of 'em, they should be grey. Two leads each. One coil goes to the outer two cylinders (should be left hand side coil) the other supplies the middle two.
There will be three wire colours used on the little terminals on the rear of the coils, black or brown, one red (should be right hand side/ cylinders 2-3) and one green, black(or brown) wire goes to the bottom terminal on the coils, green/red to the top
You should not be able to swap the green/red wires over as one is longer than the other due to where the wiring loom runs.


Send me your bike :bleh:

[Juniper]

what has been done to the timing? Only thing you can adjust one a ZXR is cam timing, which is a big fat no-no

1 is on the far left (gear lever side) and 4 is on the opposite side.


C6 is the restricted model ZXR, after 1993. But that's not really an issue.


Ask whomever said it to you, why exactly does it need new carbs? Only time you need carbs is when something is literally smashed, or the slide bores are worn.



I'd love to know what has been done with the timing, either spark or valve timing. That will help us keyboard warriors. The more details, the better.

8 hours on timing... :gob:


Back to the coils.
There are two of 'em, they should be grey. Two leads each. One coil goes to the outer two cylinders (should be left hand side coil) the other supplies the middle two.
There will be three wire colours used on the little terminals on the rear of the coils, black or brown, one red (should be right hand side/ cylinders 2-3) and one green, black(or brown) wire goes to the bottom terminal on the coils, green/red to the top
You should not be able to swap the green/red wires over as one is longer than the other due to where the wiring loom runs.


Send me your bike :bleh:

What's cam timing? (Stupid questions probably yes I know, but hey I'm a baby here :baby: )

As in after the new Jap laws came in? Thought that was in 1994, because mine is unrestricted (or so I think). 47hp compared to newer ones on the market at 40hp or below.

Haha why do I need new carbs...... A) they are old. They've done 62,000km on a 20yo bike. B) Some fuckers :mad: drilled a hole in them (admittedly to try and fix a problem) and damaged it.

All the wires from the terminals to the plugs are covered. TBH it really doesn't look like they have been played with. No grip marks or anything.

umm I've sent the guy whose helping me an email and he should be able to explain more than I. :scratch:

[nzspokes]

[QUOTE=Juniper;1130660603]
Haha why do I need new carbs...... A) they are old. They've done 62,000km on a 20yo bike. B) Some fuckers :mad: drilled a hole in them (admittedly to try and fix a problem) and damaged it.

QUOTE]

Thats why you see Alec at SME. he will make them new again. im sure he can fix holes.

[Juniper]

Thats why you see Alec at SME. he will make them new again. im sure he can fix holes.

That is probably the more sensible option but it bound to cost me more than $400, and I somehow don't think he'll let me sit there and tinker in her too?

As I said, as long as she doesn't come out worse than I took her in I'm happy to sit around for 8hr playing with her. Look at it from my view, if it gets fixed its $400 for a fixed bike and hours worth of tuition, if she's not fixed then I've still had hours worth of tuition and good conversation.

Maybe if she's not fixed when I get a job then it will be SME time. But $$ is not my friend atm.

[Katman]

But $$ is not my friend atm.

Then you probably couldn't have picked a worse bike to own.

[nzspokes]

That is probably the more sensible option but it bound to cost me more than $400, and I somehow don't think he'll let me sit there and tinker in her too?

As I said, as long as she doesn't come out worse than I took her in I'm happy to sit around for 8hr playing with her. Look at it from my view, if it gets fixed its $400 for a fixed bike and hours worth of tuition, if she's not fixed then I've still had hours worth of tuition and good conversation.

Maybe if she's not fixed when I get a job then it will be SME time. But $$ is not my friend atm.

You may be supprised what he can do for 400 on your carbs. But up to you. Looks like you will be chasing your tail of you dont get people that know what they are doing working on it as its not clear if its a electrical probel or carbs. Sometimes you need to spend the money.

[Juniper]

Then you probably couldn't have picked a worse bike to own.

Oh that I now know.......... :weep:

[ducatilover]

What's cam timing? (Stupid questions probably yes I know, but hey I'm a baby here :baby: )
the movement of the camshafts in relation to the crank shaft. A wee bit important on a ZXR, and should never be changed, otherwise bendy broken bits appear.

As in after the new Jap laws came in? Thought that was in 1994, because mine is unrestricted (or so I think). 47hp compared to newer ones on the market at 40hp or below. Yeah after the rule change.


Haha why do I need new carbs...... A) they are old. They've done 62,000km on a 20yo bike. B) Some fuckers :mad: drilled a hole in them (admittedly to try and fix a problem) and damaged it.
Can you get a picture? I may be able to help, I think I have a few carb parts that can be swapped over from similar units. (depending on what year your beasty is, but it'll have either Keihin CVKD32 or D30s on it)

All the wires from the terminals to the plugs are covered. TBH it really doesn't look like they have been played with. No grip marks or anything.
Good to hear :) just a matter of getting the spark leads to the correct plug for moar sparkies.

umm I've sent the guy whose helping me an email and he should be able to explain more than I. :scratch: :2thumbsup

C'mon Katman, don't be so negative! Somebody has to take care of the lil' screamers.