Track day crashes!

[Grubber]

I was attending a track day with Playday on the track on Friday and was witness to some rather horrid skills that led to a rather major crash.
One rider, that was obviously riding beyond his skills and got things well out of control in the medium fast group managed to take out 2 other bikes heading up the front straight.
He was riding over the yellow lines at pit entrance and then decided to keep some pace on and bring himself out onto the race line again banging side ways into another bike. He not only took him out, but the one that was also at a good pace, but in a safe ish area, was taken out also. the bikes all headed for the thin grass verge to the left hand side of the track before turn 1 and consequently slid along the tarmac before coming to a halt.
There was extensive damage to all 3 bikes and some minor damage to the 2 riders that were taken out.
From what i have heard the offending rider was told nicely not to return to the track again for some time (he was clearly in the wrong) and for the 2 guys with the innocent damage, they went home with hefty bills to pay.

I've been racing and i have done many rack days. Racing i would expect some issues such as this from time to time. You take your chance out there is what i say.
Track days are a little different in my view, it's where people like to have a hoon so to speak and ride home again comparatively safe. It is nailed home at the briefing that they will not tolerate any idiots so to speak and anyone who does do anything stupid will be pulled off the track.

Question for you guys is, where do we draw the line between having a good safe day and law of averages we gonna crash. Just to add to this, how much should a rider expect to be punished as such when he bends the rules a tad too much.
I'm sitting on the fence probably due to the racing side of my riding but i would be interested to know how others view it. Just curious really.

I have no agenda here so just post your own opinions based on how you see it would be great.:niceone:

[nzspokes]

The 2 track days ive done there were told if you go over the yellow lines heading into the pits expect to be black flagged and sent home.

They were all very lucky they survived that crash by the sounds. Im slow but was still at 160 past there. Scary.

[malcy25]

I help out at track days in medium speed groups as well as doing eaily 6-8 race meetings per year. I've 25 seasons out of the last 29 years to my credit.

1) I find the riding at race meetings to be generally a lot safer.....despite all wanting to grind the other riders into the dust. :2thumbsup
2) I do find the top of the hill at HD to be one of the worst places for large variability in line bringing riders together.

[Katman]

Fucking cagers.

[rustys]

Oh Shit more TRACK DAY HORROR STORIES, seen and heard it all before!!!!, feel very sorry about the innocent 2 riders, and the amount of money its going to take to fix there bikes, they will never be back, and it goes for others that have been involved with simalar situations, all caused by FUCK wits. I have seen so many nice bikes wrecked at Track Days its not funny, unfortunatley once someones out on the track you can't control them.
I feel far more safer RACING in a large field of riders, that know what they are doing, than TRACK DAYS, not nice.

[bluninja]

I've done a few track days and found that the medium group was always the worst for crashes. You get the "I'm not a noob and I've got a race rep sports bike", along with the "I want to be fastest in the group, but I think I'll be shown up in the fast group" so the standard of riders and their attitudes is pretty variable.

The slow group keep themselves safe and the faster ones just circulate ahead of the rest. The fast group are mostly capable fast riders, track day enthusiasts and racers. It's often safer to do your own thing on a clear track behind them than in amongst the medium peeps.

It also depends on the track and how many are on track at once. I've done track days where you all peel out at the start of the session, and others where you go out in pairs with a 5-10 second stagger. I prefer the staggered start myself.

Good robust marshalling is key to having the best track time (unless you are an offender :crazy:)

The best instruction I had at briefing was "This is not a race, some people have to ride their bikes home after this. Pass on the way out of corners, if you are having to pass on the brakes into a corner you're not as good as you think you are."

[quickbuck]

It is the Muppets out the that have put me off Track days completely. Not worth taking the race bike as I will be relegated to medium class with all the people identified above..... If I take my road bike I run the risk of someone doing something like the issue the OP has identified.

Obviously HD has it's own issues. It was built as a pure race track... I don't think it is actually the safest for road bike riders to go for a blast around. We must remember we have lost someone very near the spot that this incident happened.... That wall will not move!

I am happy to sit on the side line and help out, police, and offer advise to those that ask (sadly very few, as most are too good to need advice).

Realistically it is safer racing. You just have to get a smaller bike than you ride on the road and come along to a controlled environment... Of course if you ride a 250, there is no need for a smaller bike for the track.

As for TRAINING days at a track, these are different. Very different. You can't beat the courses offered by www.rideforever.co.nz

Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Grubber]

The 2 track days ive done there were told if you go over the yellow lines heading into the pits expect to be black flagged and sent home.

They were all very lucky they survived that crash by the sounds. Im slow but was still at 160 past there. Scary.

Yellows are out of bounds for sure. these 2 were at around 210kph when it all went pear shaped.

I help out at track days in medium speed groups as well as doing eaily 6-8 race meetings per year. I've 25 seasons out of the last 29 years to my credit.

1) I find the riding at race meetings to be generally a lot safer.....despite all wanting to grind the other riders into the dust. :2thumbsup
2) I do find the top of the hill at HD to be one of the worst places for large variability in line bringing riders together.

Appreciate your help on those days by the way. Not enough volunteers i say.
Race meetings are better as you say. Most have a clue when racing.
Top of the hill is only as bad as the rider allows it to be i reckon.
Just don't outride your bike is what you do!

[Grubber]

Oh Shit more TRACK DAY HORROR STORIES, seen and heard it all before!!!!, feel very sorry about the innocent 2 riders, and the amount of money its going to take to fix there bikes, they will never be back, and it goes for others that have been involved with simalar situations, all caused by FUCK wits. I have seen so many nice bikes wrecked at Track Days its not funny, unfortunatley once someones out on the track you can't control them.
I feel far more safer RACING in a large field of riders, that know what they are doing, than TRACK DAYS, not nice.

Tends to be the case unfortunately.
The 2 riders have said they will be back and good on them. Just hope they have better luck next time.
I run in the fast groups and find they are usually more consistent and well behaved as such than the slower wannabes that can be tucked in amongst the medium groups.

Some good feedback so far. Interesting to see where people are on this.

[Katman]

I remember a thread from some time back about someone who got cleaned up at a trackday by a dickhead overtaking them on the inside at the Pukekohe hairpin.

If anyone can be bothered searching for it, it might make for an interesting comparison with this thread.

[sil3nt]

I was in that same group. Didn't see the crash but saw the aftermath. That lovely rizla livery bike was destroyed :(

I was tempted to drop down to novice (should have been there anyway) as the medium-slow group was quite large and there were people in there that should have been in the in the medium-fast and even the fast group.

There were quite a few crashes that day. I saw one fireblade go down in front of me. He passed me as I braked for turn one. I was wondering when he would hit the brakes but all I saw was a quick flash of the brake light just before he tipped it in. He carried massive speed around the turn before he caught up to two slower bikes just as the turn tightens up. I didn't think he would make it and sure enough he lost the front and ended up in the gravel. Not sure if he panicked and hit the brakes but it looked rather silly from my point of view. Seeing this kind of put me off for a session but the trackday bug has hit and I will be back again :devil2:

[sil3nt]

I remember a thread from some time back about someone who got cleaned up at a trackday by a dickhead overtaking them on the inside at the Pukekohe hairpin.

If anyone can be bothered searching for it, it might make for an interesting comparison with this thread.I believe it was the fast right hander over the hill (last corner). What annoyed me about that incident is that tried to sneak up the inside was breaking the rules of the day but the organisers didn't seem to care. (all this from memory though - could be entirely wrong)

[nosebleed]

I remember a thread from some time back about someone who got cleaned up at a trackday by a dickhead overtaking them on the inside at the Pukekohe hairpin.

If anyone can be bothered searching for it, it might make for an interesting comparison with this thread.

IIRC the incident in that example was during a Training Day, which is where the conversation started to get muddy.
There was another where Scott got cleaned out by a racer during a Trackday.

In both examples the consensus on here seemed to be; "It's a track, fuck your luck"

[vinducati]

I think that Play Day need to tighten up the passing rules in all classes at HD, excluding the fast group.
You should only be passing around the outside, not anywhere.
The two metre passing rule is not enforced.
Also they need to have more marshalls as a lot of marshall posts are empty.
Also need marshalls on track to keep an eye on the aggressive twits.
I have done about 40 trackdays at HD and the only issue I have had is people charging in underneath at corners, and yes if I see anyone who may be an issue on the hill I wait and pass somewhere else.

Racing is generally safer, but not always.
I have seen a horrible accident when a rider with little race time was allowed into a top race field.
The ART days are better policed which I think is important.

Also be aware that is you are a rider who has insurance at a trackday, it may be void if you are in the fast group.
I agree that the medium group can be a bit dodgy but my brother rides in the fast and it has it's fair share of odd riding.
I have also seen an MV Agusta in the slow group cutting people up.
Like I said it needs proper marshalling.

[tigertim20]

Tis a risk of trackdays unfortunately, that you have zero guarantee of the skill level of the other riders you share the space with at speed. Anyone can turn up, and, wanting to be the big man, say oh yeah, Ive been here and done that, chuck me in xxx group. when in reality, they have fuckall idea what they are doing and are a giant hazard. I love trackdays, but always try to find myself a little space on track, but observing the first session, to see who, out of my group, are a little quicker than me, and who are a little slower than me, then slot in between them at the pit gate before going out on the track. usually means i have lots of space for most of the session.

[Kickaha]

Like I said it needs proper marshalling.
You need to be prepared to pay a lot more for the track day then

[vinducati]

That 's a good approach, plenty of room on track.

[Grubber]

I think that Play Day need to tighten up the passing rules in all classes at HD, excluding the fast group.
You should only be passing around the outside, not anywhere.
The two metre passing rule is not enforced.
Also they need to have more marshalls as a lot of marshall posts are empty.
Also need marshalls on track to keep an eye on the aggressive twits.
I have done about 40 trackdays at HD and the only issue I have had is people charging in underneath at corners, and yes if I see anyone who may be an issue on the hill I wait and pass somewhere else.

May add much to the cost but valid point in a lot of ways.

Racing is generally safer, but not always.
I have seen a horrible accident when a rider with little race time was allowed into a top race field.
The ART days are better policed which I think is important.

Also be aware that is you are a rider who has insurance at a trackday, it may be void if you are in the fast group.
I agree that the medium group can be a bit dodgy but my brother rides in the fast and it has it's fair share of odd riding.
I have also seen an MV Agusta in the slow group cutting people up.
Like I said it needs proper marshalling.

Makes a bit of sense for sure!

[Grubber]

Tis a risk of trackdays unfortunately, that you have zero guarantee of the skill level of the other riders you share the space with at speed. Anyone can turn up, and, wanting to be the big man, say oh yeah, Ive been here and done that, chuck me in xxx group. when in reality, they have fuckall idea what they are doing and are a giant hazard. I love trackdays, but always try to find myself a little space on track, but observing the first session, to see who, out of my group, are a little quicker than me, and who are a little slower than me, then slot in between them at the pit gate before going out on the track. usually means i have lots of space for most of the session.

That's pretty much what i do also.
Find my spot and stick to it. i'm usually just there for a bit of testing or just some fun so no need for me to go hard out. i can do that in a race!

[Grubber]

You need to be prepared to pay a lot more for the track day then

True. Would it be worth it though is the question. What price does one pay for some safety?

[Kickaha]

True. Would it be worth it though is the question. What price does one pay for some safety?

If you were worried about your safety you wouldn't be there in the first place

[nzspokes]

If you were worried about your safety you wouldn't be there in the first place

Or riding a motorcycle.

[Grubber]

If you were worried about your safety you wouldn't be there in the first place

Also true in my world. Others may be different of coarse. Others may still want to do track rides but retain a good safety margin maybe.
I think this is why i posted originally. To see how and what people think as they enter the track world of riding.

[sharp2183]

Have watched the video of the crash in question. The guy should never have passed where he did, and the decision to not let him back is very justifiable in my view. I would say this it was a bit of a brain explosion from the Suzuki rider, but brain explosions can kill people pretty easily.

It sucked for the rider who was not hit but still crashed. It looked like a bad case of target fixation, but at that speed it is difficult not to!

[sil3nt]

Have watched the video of the crash in question. The guy should never have passed where he did, and the decision to not let him back is very justifiable in my view. I would say this it was a bit of a brain explosion from the Suzuki rider, but brain explosions can kill people pretty easily.

It sucked for the rider who was not hit but still crashed. It looked like a bad case of target fixation, but at that speed it is difficult not to!Is there anyway we can see the video?

[SPP]

... Track days are a little different in my view, it's where people like to have a hoon so to speak and ride home again comparatively safe. It is nailed home at the briefing that they will not tolerate any idiots so to speak and anyone who does do anything stupid will be pulled off the track....

Numpties:
And there we are. Organisers take the same attitude and I'd like to think most people who go to trackdays do as well. There will always be numpties. You get to see who they are and best to try and get some separation but the unfortunate truth is that sometimes you get pulled in to some retards shenanigans. How do racers deal with a dangerous racer?... or is it more a case of all the numpties having been filtered out by that stage?

Riding with racers:
I trust that they can handle there machines so I feel much 'safer' for sure (test days), even when they pass quite close I don't worry much at all. That's good for me but then I don't want to be their problem either so at TDs when there are groups I stay out of theirs.

Passing:
In the med-slow and med-fast group (but less so) there can be a quite a variation in speed, mostly corner speed since everyone is fast in a straight line. If I am passing on a corner I'll try to do it on the outside from entry to apex or inside from apex to exit. I figure it's the most polite way since their attention is to the opposite side and I less likely to startle anybody. Strictly speaking outside is the only place you are allowed to pass so I guess they could *555 me and I'm in for a chat with the marshals. Hasn't happened yet.

Back to your original question:
I go to Track days accepting there is some risk and that honest mistakes can happen. I do draw the line at what I would consider to be blatant stupidity and if I was involved in an incident like that I'd be looking real hard at the dude to do the right thing.

[haydes55]

Why not just have 1 rider on the track at a time if there is no actual race taking place.







The troll has landed...

[nzspokes]

There has to be some responsibility from the overtaking rider. I had one guy in my first track day cut me up twice. I almost went to talk to him about it after but thought better of it. The last one I did this weekend I came up on a rider and thought I could get past before the turn, It took me longer to get there than I thought and would have gone right under her. There was a ton of track space. The rider from the first track day flashed into my mind so I rolled off and sat behind her through the turn.

[nzspokes]

Why not just have 1 rider on the track at a time if there is no actual race taking place.

No helping stupid. :facepalm:

[Voltaire]

I took my race bike that I had just built to Puke a couple of years ago on one of the test days to Puke where you pay $95 and do some testing.....so I thought.

It started off ok, but then became an uncontrolled track day with lots of very fast bikes being ridden amongst slower bikes.

One of the guys testing his Manx Norton went off to " the organisers" and got them to split it into fast and slow.

One guy on a Ducati SS clearly did not like being behind me and gave it some leaving the hairpin and went off the track.

My mate made a comment to one guy about it being " a bit loose" and was told to fuck off if he didn't like it.

Test day: yeah right.

Art Days are well run as is the Superbike School and the race meets I have run at....track days.....er no thanks.

[Grubber]

Numpties:
And there we are. Organisers take the same attitude and I'd like to think most people who go to trackdays do as well. There will always be numpties. You get to see who they are and best to try and get some separation but the unfortunate truth is that sometimes you get pulled in to some retards shenanigans. How do racers deal with a dangerous racer?... or is it more a case of all the numpties having been filtered out by that stage?

Riding with racers:
I trust that they can handle there machines so I feel much 'safer' for sure (test days), even when they pass quite close I don't worry much at all. That's good for me but then I don't want to be their problem either so at TDs when there are groups I stay out of theirs.

Passing:
In the med-slow and med-fast group (but less so) there can be a quite a variation in speed, mostly corner speed since everyone is fast in a straight line. If I am passing on a corner I'll try to do it on the outside from entry to apex or inside from apex to exit. I figure it's the most polite way since their attention is to the opposite side and I less likely to startle anybody. Strictly speaking outside is the only place you are allowed to pass so I guess they could *555 me and I'm in for a chat with the marshals. Hasn't happened yet.

Back to your original question:
I go to Track days accepting there is some risk and that honest mistakes can happen. I do draw the line at what I would consider to be blatant stupidity and if I was involved in an incident like that I'd be looking real hard at the dude to do the right thing.

I think this would be the camp that i am in. Well written. Race track, i trust the riders i'm with and track days i pretty much trust no one. Generally find my own spot and stick to it. You have to accept that a track day will always have its dicks and you just have to stay out of their way. I ride in the fast group on a 675 and all the big superbikes fly past on the straights and sometimes can be quite close, but it doesn't faze me when they do, as i believe they know what they are doing 99% of the time.

[Gremlin]

Art Days are well run as is the Superbike School and the race meets I have run at....track days.....er no thanks.
Very different setups between track days and any sort of training day, at least from what I've been involved with.

Track days, the track is available for use, you pay your money, you get track time. Often mixed cars and bikes, but separate sessions. Very little work required from track management staff other than controlling sessions etc.

Training type days are likely more expensive all round, but there is a much bigger setup required, AMCC ones have AMCC officials, marshalls etc working with track staff. Usually bike only etc.

[argada]

It is intriguing how some people treat the rules as mere recommendation.
Everyone was told at least half a dozen times all morning, NEVER EVER cross the yellow line! This guy in front of me darts back into the pits just in front of the wall, after realizing the session is ending. Fair enough, nothing happened, and it is probably not the end of the world since the session is ending, but wtf?

Another example, yellow flags - slow down, no passing. Had a guy completely ignore it and zoom past 3 people on a yellow flag. I caught up with him after to ask what he was thinking. He said something along the lines of "Yeah flag was there, but obviously there were no major hazards so it wasn't important". DAFUK...?

[Grubber]

From what everyone has said on track days there is a mixture of bikes and riding abilitiues and unlimited speeds all going around the same track. Now I would call that stupid!!!

Of coarse YOU would! Pot kettle black etc.
Maybe you just don't get the concept of speed in a legal area. Or you just don't get anything at all by the sounds of it.
You go there with an open mind as to the concequences that may or may not arise. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
Please don't bring your lack of forethought or Nana riding to a track day where I'm at!:motu:

[Grubber]

It is intriguing how some people treat the rules as mere recommendation.
Everyone was told at least half a dozen times all morning, NEVER EVER cross the yellow line! This guy in front of me darts back into the pits just in front of the wall, after realizing the session is ending. Fair enough, nothing happened, and it is probably not the end of the world since the session is ending, but wtf?

Another example, yellow flags - slow down, no passing. Had a guy completely ignore it and zoom past 3 people on a yellow flag. I caught up with him after to ask what he was thinking. He said something along the lines of "Yeah flag was there, but obviously there were no major hazards so it wasn't important". DAFUK...?

And it is exactly those ones that need to be cut off and spat out. Wrong attitude and wrong place.
I am the same, heard them mention the yellow lines a lot, also the 2 metre passing rule etc. Didn't have any issues in the fast group but did see the odd thing or 2 in the fast medium one. I think maybe it could be vetted a little more. That is to say, they could just have quiet word in the ear now and then to keep things a little more under control. First the warning and then you go home.:headbang:

[Ntoxcated]

It is intriguing how some people treat the rules as mere recommendation.
Everyone was told at least half a dozen times all morning, NEVER EVER cross the yellow line! This guy in front of me darts back into the pits just in front of the wall, after realizing the session is ending. Fair enough, nothing happened, and it is probably not the end of the world since the session is ending, but wtf?

[QUOTE=Grubber;1130662500 That is to say, they could just have quiet word in the ear now and then to keep things a little more under control. First the warning and then you go home.:headbang:[/QUOTE]

I know the AMCC marshals are specifically looking out for that particular infraction and I am pretty sure that if the rider was identified, somebody would have had a quiet (or not so quiet) word in their ear.

[The Reibz]

I took my race bike that I had just built to Puke a couple of years ago on one of the test days to Puke where you pay $95 and do some testing.....so I thought.

It started off ok, but then became an uncontrolled track day with lots of very fast bikes being ridden amongst slower bikes.

One of the guys testing his Manx Norton went off to " the organisers" and got them to split it into fast and slow.

One guy on a Ducati SS clearly did not like being behind me and gave it some leaving the hairpin and went off the track.

My mate made a comment to one guy about it being " a bit loose" and was told to fuck off if he didn't like it.

Test day: yeah right.

Art Days are well run as is the Superbike School and the race meets I have run at....track days.....er no thanks.

I got a bike that im building up at the moment that im considering taking to one of those days in a couple of months to see how it runs.

Your post and description makes it sound shady as fuck. Actually most of these posts track days shining in a bad light. Would be pretty hesitant to sign up for one now. I ride with p.dath quite a bit and he speaks very highly of AMCC ART Days so if I ever decided to take a bike to the track (Circut) I would probably go with them. Soulds like the most newb friendly option

[Voltaire]

I got a bike that im building up at the moment that im considering taking to one of those days in a couple of months to see how it runs.

Your post and description makes it sound shady as fuck. Actually most of these posts track days shining in a bad light. Would be pretty hesitant to sign up for one now. I ride with p.dath quite a bit and he speaks very highly of AMCC ART Days so if I ever decided to take a bike to the track (Circut) I would probably go with them. Soulds like the most newb friendly option

I don't know if they still have them with Puke now no longer being a motorcycle track. Good idea for testing a bike or car but as there are no staff around the track or St Johns or barriers.
I started off in level 1 ( as you have to) at the ART days and there were a couple of guys tagging along keeping out of the way doing a bit of testing.

At the Barry Sheene my mate got pinged by MNZ for crossing the yellow pit lines, the bike he was trying to pass just kept drifting right, my old BMW only gets up to 165 kmph up that hill and that wall sure looks close so I like to keep to the right..... probably not the ideal place for a pit exit....just saying.

[Grubber]

My comment was based on the view of others that a mixture of bike sizes plus experience plus unlimited speeds was a recipe for disaster.
If you enjoy taking such risks you have no reason to complain about what happens. Dont worry I value my life a bit more than you so you will
never see me on any race track.

As my ability is far better than yours i am quite at ease on the track and due to that ability, i'm also happy to take the risk involved.
Glad to hear you will be no where near to make that risk any higher.

[Grubber]

Just reading some of the comments it seems that some may be getting the impression that the playday ones are not that good.
I have done quite a few with them and this weekend just gone has been the only one i have seen a bad crash as such.
Generally i haven't really had any issues with them but then i have always run in the fast group so unable to comment on the medium to be fair. they always seem to well run mostly i think to be fair to them.

[nzspokes]

Dont worry I value my life a bit more than you so you will
never see me on any race track.

Other riders thank you for that.

[haydes55]

A couple weeks after I stepped up from the KLX300 to the Z1000 I did a playday track day at hampton downs. I went in the medium group. I was probably second or third slowest in my group. I got overtaken under, and around and down straights, I just kept calm and held my line, no dramas. I only ever overtook on corner exit/straights (I overtook a lot less than got overtaken haha).

Never felt unsafe, just focused on my lines and riding.

[nzspokes]

I got a bike that im building up at the moment that im considering taking to one of those days in a couple of months to see how it runs.

Your post and description makes it sound shady as fuck. Actually most of these posts track days shining in a bad light. Would be pretty hesitant to sign up for one now. I ride with p.dath quite a bit and he speaks very highly of AMCC ART Days so if I ever decided to take a bike to the track (Circut) I would probably go with them. Soulds like the most newb friendly option

Do it, Ive learnt heaps there. ART days are good value. Just dont end up doing the lap of shame on the trailer round the pits if you bin it.

Well run and great people.

[SPP]

Why not just have 1 rider on the track at a time if there is no actual race taking place.
you need to try harder


My comment was based on the view of others that a mixture of bike sizes plus experience plus unlimited speeds was a recipe for disaster.
If you enjoy taking such risks you have no reason to complain about what happens. Dont worry I value my life a bit more than you so you will
never see me on any race track.
there, that's better.


There has to be some responsibility from the overtaking rider. I had one guy in my first track day cut me up twice. I almost went to talk to him about it after but thought better of it. The last one I did this weekend I came up on a rider and thought I could get past before the turn, It took me longer to get there than I thought and would have gone right under her. There was a ton of track space. The rider from the first track day flashed into my mind so I rolled off and sat behind her through the turn.

That’s because you are aware of what’s going on around you and have consideration for other riders on track. I think that maybe some people are so overwhelmed with their awesomeness there’s little room for anything else.


I ride with p.dath quite a bit and he speaks very highly of AMCC ART Days so if I ever decided to take a bike to the track (Circut) I would probably go with them. Soulds like the most newb friendly option
Ah cool! he's enjoing his CB thou R?
You should go, it's not shady. More sketchy shit seen on road if play out the what-ifs.


Just reading some of the comments it seems that some may be getting the impression that the playday ones are not that good.
I have done quite a few with them and this weekend just gone has been the only one i have seen a bad crash as such.
Generally i haven't really had any issues with them but then i have always run in the fast group so unable to comment on the medium to be fair. they always seem to well run mostly i think to be fair to them.
Yep, they are a little under staffed compared to an ART but that doesn't mean they're dodgy. They're good.

I found this video of a recent Playday med-slow group for perspective. It's not the session that started this thread. I was in that group by mistake so was threading most of the day and pass by at 06:05 min nice a polite. Not scary or dangerous at all I reckon.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5up4NJBvd2c?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The Reibz]

Just dont end up doing the lap of shame on the trailer round the pits if you bin it.
Already done it at meremere. Will probably end up taking the FZR out to a ART day, going to keep the busa a straight line/street bike.


Ah cool! he's enjoing his CB thou R?
He had only had it for a few hours last time I saw him. Bet he is alright

[300weatherby]

Road riders on track are scary as fuck, need to give them as wide a berth as possible, not alot different to driving in places like Vietnam, only difference is they are more or less headed in roughly the same direction......

[sil3nt]

I got a bike that im building up at the moment that im considering taking to one of those days in a couple of months to see how it runs.

Your post and description makes it sound shady as fuck. Actually most of these posts track days shining in a bad light. Would be pretty hesitant to sign up for one now. I ride with p.dath quite a bit and he speaks very highly of AMCC ART Days so if I ever decided to take a bike to the track (Circut) I would probably go with them. Soulds like the most newb friendly option


I don't know if they still have them with Puke now no longer being a motorcycle track. Good idea for testing a bike or car but as there are no staff around the track or St Johns or barriers.
I started off in level 1 ( as you have to) at the ART days and there were a couple of guys tagging along keeping out of the way doing a bit of testing.

At the Barry Sheene my mate got pinged by MNZ for crossing the yellow pit lines, the bike he was trying to pass just kept drifting right, my old BMW only gets up to 165 kmph up that hill and that wall sure looks close so I like to keep to the right..... probably not the ideal place for a pit exit....just saying.

They had an open test day on Saturday at pukekohe. Everything from FXR150s to 200hp superbikes.

Here is a video from the day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR0RHk1Q5H4

[Grubber]

A couple weeks after I stepped up from the KLX300 to the Z1000 I did a playday track day at hampton downs. I went in the medium group. I was probably second or third slowest in my group. I got overtaken under, and around and down straights, I just kept calm and held my line, no dramas. I only ever overtook on corner exit/straights (I overtook a lot less than got overtaken haha).

Never felt unsafe, just focused on my lines and riding.

And this is exactly what you should have been doing too! well done. glad you enjoyed it!

[vinducati]

I have done many Playday on track, they are well run and they keep an eye on silly riding.
I am also quite happy to pull into the pits and talk to them if I see someone being a twit.
I would only suggest they have more marshalls.

The ART are very well run and you pay more, because of the number of marshalls , trainers etc.

The Superbike School Ride days were the best, but heaps of people didn't want to pay.
It is a shame that people want it cheap cause that can mean less policing of riding, and that means people can get hurt of worse.

As for trackdays being dangerous, well, motorcycles are dangerous. I feel a lot safer there than riding up Highway16 or the Coro Loop.

[jasonu]

You need to be prepared to pay a lot more for the track day then

How much does HD charge for a track/play day such as this?

[jasonu]

Often mixed cars and bikes, but separate sessions. .

Ever since Scott Dixon ran over a guy (forget his name) on an Anglo American Harley at Puke and knocked one of his legs off.

[Mort]

How much does HD charge for a track/play day such as this?

$150

I was at that Pukehoe day. It was my first ride there. It was test day for sure with just one bike group. There was a very wide range of bikes and riders of different ability. I also noticed a couple of riders who were quick but made it their business to carve up anyone on their way. Their riding bordered on dangerous (Puke is dangerous enough). idiots. The sessions were pretty much unregulated from what I could see so I'd advise novices/medium riders to avoid those test days and spend a bit more on a proper controlled track day like Playdays...

[sil3nt]

Ever since Scott Dixon ran over a guy (forget his name) on an Anglo American Harley at Puke and knocked one of his legs off.First I have heard of this :crazy:

[Grubber]

$150

I was at that Pukehoe day. It was my first ride there. It was test day for sure with just one bike group. There was a very wide range of bikes and riders of different ability. I also noticed a couple of riders who were quick but made it their business to carve up anyone on their way. Their riding bordered on dangerous (Puke is dangerous enough). idiots. The sessions were pretty much unregulated from what I could see so I'd advise novices/medium riders to avoid those test days and spend a bit more on a proper controlled track day like Playdays...

Yea i have found the same at Puke. Tend to be a couple of lose goose's about on those days. Keep ya nose clean and i's all good usually though.
It seems the general consensus is that you take your chances on the track days. what ever will be will be.
If you keep your lines properly you generally will be safe enough.
this is what i find anyway.
Figure it's always going to be a bit of a lottery but once you get a couple under your belt you usually get it all under control fairly well.

[AndyR1]

I believe it was the fast right hander over the hill (last corner). What annoyed me about that incident is that tried to sneak up the inside was breaking the rules of the day but the organisers didn't seem to care. (all this from memory though - could be entirely wrong)

Oh yeah, overtaking in the inside is so easy because they are faster in and blocking your way through the turn because they are coming out slower too :laugh:

I also dropped a few emails to Gary asking if the marshals are just blind not seeing these kind of things? They are supposed to be the referees in a fun-trackday.

I prefer to back off and let these morons overtake inside so if they are loosing their front or rear they are alone :facepalm:

[Mort]

You have to be honest with yourself accoding to your ability/speed. Are you fast enough to go in the fast group or are you being passed everywhere ? If not keeping up move down. Do you pass everyone on the Novice or medium group ?... move up. The groups are there for a reason. To keep every one save from big speed differences.... But there is also a matter of track etiquette. Do un to others etc..... Trackdays are not race days.

[Grubber]

Its not the ability of the expert riders that is being questioned here but the mix with lesser riders and lesser/smaller bikes on the track at the same time. If you think the risk is worth it
good luck but other comentaters do think differently.

Thats funny, as i haven't seen too much adversity to be honest, well other than your 5 cents worth of coarse and that doesn't really interest me as you haven't been involved in tracks means you are of no value to this conversation.

[Grubber]

You have to be honest with yourself accoding to your ability/speed. Are you fast enough to go in the fast group or are you being passed everywhere ? If not keeping up move down. Do you pass everyone on the Novice or medium group ?... move up. The groups are there for a reason. To keep every one save from big speed differences.... But there is also a matter of track etiquette. Do un to others etc..... Trackdays are not race days.

In a nut shell this is the the scenario that should be taking place. I think to a degree it does happen to be honest. Doesn't matter what recreation we partake in there is always an element of people that just don't want to fit really. Law of human nature i think.

[malcy25]

Ever since Scott Dixon ran over a guy (forget his name) on an Anglo American Harley at Puke and knocked one of his legs off.

Jason, wasn't Scott, was someone else's son of a famous NZ car racer name will come. Was Terry Eva on the bike.

[NAR RG500]

I think the big problem is the speed difference of the bikes, I was in that group and I have to do my passing in the corners as the VFR is too slow to pass 600's and bigger on the straights. A common thing to happen is passing a 1000cc bike around the outside at turn six only for him to blow past me on the straight again around where the incident happened. I stay mid track over the curve at the top just to allow the faster straight line bikes to pass on the inside. That's my way of trying to stay safe.

People take some random lines in those groups so you have to treat everyone totally differently.

I can imagine people getting taken out from varying lines. It's all good if everyone is a similar speed on the straight but not when someones going 80k faster than the next guy.

[quickbuck]

Jason, wasn't Scott, was someone else's son of a famous NZ car racer name will come. Was Terry Eva on the bike.




Interesting... Wasn't one of the sons of the NZ Land Speed Record Holder by chance?






Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[jasonu]

First I have heard of this :crazy:

Long time ago mate, mid 90's or so. It was a track day at Puke. They let cars and bikes out at the same time. Somehow SD ran up the back of a then prominent BEARS rider on the right sweeper after the front straight. The rider lost a leg as a result.

Malcy says it wasn't Scott. I know people who know people and will clarify.
Update. Called my mate in Phoenix who worked for Petch Motorsport (Kayne Scott Ford Murker) in those days. He remembers the incident but doesn't think it was Dixon.
Apologies to him if I am wrong.

[quickbuck]

Update. Called my mate in Phoenix who worked for Petch Motorsport (Kayne Scott Ford Murker) in those days. He remembers the incident but doesn't think it was Dixon.
Apologies to him if I am wrong.


Ah, so that's where Kayne Scott went to.....




















Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[nzspokes]

That’s because you are aware of what’s going on around you and have consideration for other riders on track. I think that maybe some people are so overwhelmed with their awesomeness there’s little room for anything else.




I would rather be less awesome than cause somebody injuries.

[Kickaha]

Often mixed cars and bikes, but separate sessions.

Ruapuna at one stage was pretty much all in, we'd be hard out on the siecar and next minute a Transam car would come blasting past, awesome fun

[koba]

O
I also dropped a few emails to Gary asking if the marshals are just blind not seeing these kind of things? They are supposed to be the referees in a fun-trackday.

I can tell you have never tried marshaling for a track day ;)
Don't hate; it's a long day to be sitting in a box waiting for people to crash.

[300weatherby]

Ruapuna at one stage was pretty much all in, we'd be hard out on the siecar and next minute a Transam car would come blasting past, awesome fun

Have come across sidecars sharing the bike session the odd friday arvo testing, those things are a bit on the slow side, but not so easy to get past in the wrong place, you can't figure out what they are gonna do or where they are gonna go, must be awkward in another sidecar!

[SPP]

...It was test day for sure with just one bike group. There was a very wide range of bikes and riders of different ability...

was it a weekend or a weekday? I've only gone on weekdays and it was always quiet, maybe things have changed.



Yea i have found the same at Puke. Tend to be a couple of lose goose's about on those days. Keep ya nose clean and i's all good usually though.

Ah shit, I'm going there soon for a Dave Moss tune day. I'll try keep my nose squeaky clean and out of trouble.

[Kickaha]

Have come across sidecars sharing the bike session the odd friday arvo testing, those things are a bit on the slow side, but not so easy to get past in the wrong place, you can't figure out what they are gonna do or where they are gonna go, must be awkward in another sidecar!


We come across slow bikes in the sidecar and have the same problem, it's no more awkward than passing other bikes/sidecars/cars etc

[Gremlin]

I can tell you have never tried marshaling for a track day ;)
Don't hate; it's a long day to be sitting in a box waiting for people to crash.
Wait, you get boxes? Shit, we supply our own chairs and put them on the grass/dirt/whatever! :eek5:

[Rcktfsh]

Hamilton Motorcycle Club will again be running Clubmans A & B classes at the upcoming winter series. This is a great way to take the step up from track days or try out circuit racing. Last year we had Andrew Stroud, Jay Lawrence & Steve Bridge on hand to help clubmans riders with advice if needed and will be doing the same this year. Clubmans A is aimed at faster riders (sub 1.20 dry) & B smaller bikes slower riders. Dates for 2014 are

Sunday 25 May 2014
Sunday 13 July 2014
Sunday 24 August 2014 all rounds at Hampton Downs.

[Grubber]

I would rather be less awesome than cause somebody injuries.

Problem is they aren't actually awesome at all, they just think they are. And there is the issue right there.
I'm thinking maybe what if they had like a half dress down before hand to just settle the premadonnas a tad before venturing onto the track and then a watchful eye while they are on the track. You know, kinda giving some direction as they go.
I know this would take more time and money maybe, but in the long run it would benefit all riders that are somewhat new to tracks.
Just an idea perhaps.
Actually they might as well have something like a California Superbike School. Hey they could even call it that aye!:brick:

[Grubber]

Hamilton Motorcycle Club will again be running Clubmans A & B classes at the upcoming winter series. This is a great way to take the step up from track days or try out circuit racing. Last year we had Andrew Stroud, Jay Lawrence & Steve Bridge on hand to help clubmans riders with advice if needed and will be doing the same this year. Clubmans A is aimed at faster riders (sub 1.20 dry) & B smaller bikes slower riders. Dates for 2014 are

Sunday 25 May 2014
Sunday 13 July 2014
Sunday 24 August 2014 all rounds at Hampton Downs.

I was going to run in that last year but run out of time. Definitely a go this year.
Usually do F2 but clubmans is a great way mix it up somewhat.

[vinducati]

Open Test days, I would not attend.
They don't do that at Hampton Downs anyway.

Playday I will happily ride at = $150.00
ART I will happily ride at = $175.00

The best run days were the Californian Ride Days but people complained about the cost, that was a real shame as it takes staff to ensure the days are safe and they had plenty is was about $180 or $200.00.
They were really strict with riders.
Loved those days, I wish people would be realistic about the costs of running a proper ride day.
It seems NZ riders want a safe track day, with marshalls, recovery, policing, training, lunch but in true NZ fashion want it for an unrealistic price.

[Corse1]

30 of us hire the Taupo full track out for a day about 4 times a year. We all know each other and there are no surprises. Great day for $140 which covers everything, ambulance, marshalls, photography etc. Stay out on the track all day if you want :drool:

[Grubber]

30 of us hire the Taupo full track out for a day about 4 times a year. We all know each other and there are no surprises. Great day for $140 which covers everything, ambulance, marshalls, photography etc. Stay out on the track all day if you want :drool:

Wow, that sounds like a reasonable deal.

[jasonu]

Ah, so that's where Kayne Scott went to.....

nt from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

Na mate Kayne was the driver, my mate was a mechanic on the team. But I see how you read that into what I posted.

[jasonu]

30 of us hire the Taupo full track out for a day about 4 times a year. We all know each other and there are no surprises. Great day for $140 which covers everything, ambulance, marshalls, photography etc. Stay out on the track all day if you want :drool:

That is a bargain!!!

[sil3nt]

30 of us hire the Taupo full track out for a day about 4 times a year. We all know each other and there are no surprises. Great day for $140 which covers everything, ambulance, marshalls, photography etc. Stay out on the track all day if you want :drool:
Sounds good. When is the next one? :msn-wink: :bleh:

[Corse1]

Sounds good. When is the next one? :msn-wink: :bleh:

18th Feb - Fully booked;) Waiting list for pull outs so others in the group can get in. Cant wait :woohoo:

[nzspokes]

Hamilton Motorcycle Club will again be running Clubmans A & B classes at the upcoming winter series. This is a great way to take the step up from track days or try out circuit racing. Last year we had Andrew Stroud, Jay Lawrence & Steve Bridge on hand to help clubmans riders with advice if needed and will be doing the same this year. Clubmans A is aimed at faster riders (sub 1.20 dry) & B smaller bikes slower riders. Dates for 2014 are

Sunday 25 May 2014
Sunday 13 July 2014
Sunday 24 August 2014 all rounds at Hampton Downs.

Where would one look for the rules for the Clubmans classes?

[Rcktfsh]

Where would one look for the rules for the Clubmans classes?

Entry forms and supplementary regs will be available at http://hamiltonmcc.org.nz/ in the next couple of weeks.

[Kornholio]

30 of us hire the Taupo full track out for a day about 4 times a year. We all know each other and there are no surprises. Great day for $140 which covers everything, ambulance, marshalls, photography etc. Stay out on the track all day if you want :drool:

Shhh, don't tell everyone :p Mean days tho :rockon:

[quickbuck]

Where would one look for the rules for the Clubmans classes?




For bike preparation also have a look at the rules @ www.mnz.co.nz





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[SPP]

this one?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QrNiO7GTBEg?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

more char

[nzspokes]

this one?



more char

Fuck me. Was everybody ok after that?

What the fuck was the guy thinking? I feel very sorry for the guys that went down.

[sil3nt]

:crazy:

That is the one.

From what I saw everyone was able to walk away.

Did not realise it was Mr Rizla who caused it. From what people were describing at the track it was one bike who got a tank slapper and took out the other two.

[malcy25]

:crazy:

That is the one.

From what I saw everyone was able to walk away.

Did not realise it was Mr Rizla who caused it. From what people were describing at the track it was one bike who got a tank slapper and took out the other two.

Eye witness accounts eh, usually the most unreliable!

[Shaun Harris]

unfortunatley once someones out on the track you can't control them.
I feel far more safer RACING in a large field of riders, that know what they are doing, than TRACK DAYS, not nice.




I have seen MOTOTT trackday flaggies flag such riders in and send them home!

[nzspokes]

Does the muppet that caused this pay for the damage as it was so clearly his fault?

[Grubber]

Does the muppet that caused this pay for the damage as it was so clearly his fault?

Morally speaking one would think he should, but it is on the track and it probably doesn't count for much really.
Was really a stupid thing to be doing to be honest. Looks just as bad on video as it did when i saw the bikes being stretchered in.
Could have been very nasty.

To be fair on track days, that would have to be the worst thing i have seen since i have done them and i have been to a good number.
Others have out riden themselves and come off but that's about it in most cases.

[p.dath]

There are always going to be "accidents" on the track (ditto any other location you care to mention). Everyone going onto the track understands the risks. It's pretty shit when you get taken out for no apparent fault of your own - but that is the risk you run when you go onto your track, and ultimately you have to accept those risks (remember that bit of paper you have to sign?).

[rapid van cleef]

There are always going to be "accidents" on the track (ditto any other location you care to mention). Everyone going onto the track understands the risks. It's pretty shit when you get taken out for no apparent fault of your own - but that is the risk you run when you go onto your track, and ultimately you have to accept those risks (remember that bit of paper you have to sign?).

Maybe if there is an absolute failing to adhere to the 'rules' on that specific day there could be cause or grounds for some sort of repercussions but proving it would be very difficult. Even at WSBK and Motogp levels some of the dudes have little regard for others safety at times and are prone to the odd brain fart now and again. I recall Keenan Soufoglu punching another rider whilst going down the back straight at Aragon during the race, it was clear for the world to see it was a blatant punch and potentailly VERY dangerous......what happened as a result.....I dont think it was very much if anything.(However these guys have a totally different skill set to most of us)

Down to good marshalling of events I suppose, without whom we would not have our jollies! We go to these things looking for some fun and accept the risks. But if your being a cock and are warned about it the organisers are within their rights to tell you to pack up.

[jasonu]

There are always going to be "accidents" on the track (ditto any other location you care to mention). Everyone going onto the track understands the risks. It's pretty shit when you get taken out for no apparent fault of your own - but that is the risk you run when you go onto your track, and ultimately you have to accept those risks (remember that bit of paper you have to sign?).

While that was an 'accident' it was caused by some pretty foolish behavior and was totally unnecessary. I am pretty sure the bit of paper riders signed would include something about following the rules and instructions of the officials.
There has to be a line drawn somewhere between shit happens and damage caused by irresponsible behavior. The video shows the guy did something he agreed not to do and damage to others resulted. If one of the victims was killed wouldn't the cops use that footage to prosecute? Would the victims insurance carrier do the same thing and come after the rider for damages?
I hope like hell thus guy is black listed from all future track events.

[BigAl]

Farkin Hell, what was that guy thinking trying to undertake going over the hill.

Bloody lucky no one was injured as that wall is close and they were doing 200.

One of the reasons I like to keep my mirrors on on track days, at least I can see fast guys approaching and keep out their way.

[Mort]

Could have been very nasty and it was rider error but it can happen so easily. I've nearly been clipped in a similar way there (just millimeters from having my right bar end touched) and I've also been caught out by passing slower riders on the right and having them all too quickly move across and take the line, forcing me across the yellow and then back in front to avoid the pit wall (as happened here).

There is a factor that the circuit is basically unsafe at this point (probably due to the fact that the circuit was designed to go the other way round (yes, that is true). That pit entry was never designed as an entry....

Might be time to put a track day rule in place to allow passing at Turn 7 to happen only on the left. This will happen again I am sure...

[vinducati]

The rider is an idiot, I have seen someone killed on that spot.
He broke all the rules, 2 metres at all times while passing.
Also if you are going to pass someone there, you should have to pass on the outside.
I can tell you people think twice about that.
I will be contacting playday and wil not attend if that rider is allowed back ever.

[vinducati]

I received an email from Playday, the rider has been banned.
Good.

[kiwi cowboy]

My comment was based on the view of others that a mixture of bike sizes plus experience plus unlimited speeds was a recipe for disaster.
If you enjoy taking such risks you have no reason to complain about what happens. Dont worry I value my life a bit more than you so you will
never see me on any race track.

personaly I feel much safer in a race then a trackday then on the road in that order with the one exception of the clubmans class with the big speed differential and the muppets in it trying to be rossi makes it unsafe.
I feel comfortable with people that I have raced against before and know getting close but watch out if I haven't raced with them before until I see how they ride.

[p.dath]

...If one of the victims was killed wouldn't the cops use that footage to prosecute?...

Forget the Police. OSH would step in and that would probably be the end of track days ... okay maybe not, but it won't be good.

[quickbuck]

Got to ask...... Why was the rider in the first half of the video always closing the throttle through the corner?


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[jellywrestler]

probably due to the fact that the circuit was designed to go the other way round (yes, that is true). another sucker...

[Mort]

another sucker...

Who to believe on this one... ? I spoke to the Guy who runs the circuit. Do you know better ?

[Brett]

this one?


more char

That fucker taking the inside line like that is pretty sketchy. I would be hell as pissed if that were me taken out. Stupid stupid stupid. Must have been a slowish group (only doing sub 200kph) so that type of riding in a slower group is so unacceptable it's not funny.

[SPP]

That fucker taking the inside line like that is pretty sketchy. I would be hell as pissed if that were me taken out. Stupid stupid stupid. Must have been a slowish group (only doing sub 200kph) so that type of riding in a slower group is so unacceptable it's not funny.

I'd be spewing.

Something made him pick up the bike when he did at risk of bowling the other guy, it wouldn't have been because he didn't see him. I'm going to assume it's because he thought there was a good chance of him clipping the pit wall at the end of the lines if he didn't. Doing it so as not to cross painted lines is just too fckin dumb. Roll it back though, it looked to me they were only in that position because he'd made up his mind that a pass was going to happen there no matter what... and it had cock up written on it from early on.

Grubbers first post said med-fast group. 200 clicks past that point would've been at the slow end for that group I imagine and probably lead to the decision to try and pass but it was never on; not on a trackday, not up the inside with fuck all room to play with, and not in that spot. Turn 1 is just up the road.

[Grubber]

Grubbers first post said med-fast group. 200 clicks past that point would've been at the slow end for that group I imagine and probably lead to the decision to try and pass but it was never on; not on a trackday, not up the inside with fuck all room to play with, and not in that spot. Turn 1 is just up the road.

200 k for that group would have been fairly good i would have thought. I was in fast and probably doing around the same on a 675 so it's not slow really. Fast as my bike would carry me basically. Problem was there was this fella on a Superbike machine who didn't have control at the end of the day.
Both the crashed machines were not at the top end of the speed scale. One was a Daytona 675 and the other was an Aprillia that was ridden at less than full pace, so to have a 1000cc at full pace trying to tear past with no real ability to go with it was a recipe for disaster.

[malcy25]

Got to ask...... Why was the rider in the first half of the video always closing the throttle through the corner?


Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

I saw that too, first thing I noticed....I think he was lost.

[sil3nt]

Grubbers first post said med-fast group. 200 clicks past that point would've been at the slow end for that group I imagine and probably lead to the decision to try and pass but it was never on; not on a trackday, not up the inside with fuck all room to play with, and not in that spot. Turn 1 is just up the road.It was medium-slow. There was medium-fast and fast which half of the people in medium-slow could easily have joined.....

[SPP]

200 k for that group would have been fairly good i would have thought. I was in fast and probably doing around the same on a 675 so it's not slow really. Fast as my bike would carry me basically. Problem was there was this fella on a Superbike machine who didn't have control at the end of the day.
Both the crashed machines were not at the top end of the speed scale. One was a Daytona 675 and the other was an Aprillia that was ridden at less than full pace, so to have a 1000cc at full pace trying to tear past with no real ability to go with it was a recipe for disaster.
That explains how he climbed into them so readily.



It was medium-slow. There was medium-fast and fast which half of the people in medium-slow could easily have joined.....
med-slow, what's a trackbike thou doing in there?
(... could have been a mistake when he signed up to a group I guess)

[sil3nt]

That explains how he climbed into them so readily.



med-slow, what's a trackbike thou doing in there?
(... could have been a mistake when he signed up to a group I guess)When signing up you could choose three groups.
Slow
Medium
Fast

Over 30 bikes chose medium. I would say around 10 ins slow and maybe 20 in Fast.

Because medium had so many bikes they split the group into two but it was down to the individual rider to decide which of the two medium groups to go into. Most of them went into medium slow so it was a busy group.

Later in the day as I was following a bike through turn one I had a thou come around the outside of me and cut to the inside of the bike in front while at the same time another thou overtook me on the inside and almost collected the other bike as he cut to the inside. Pretty sure they were race bikes as well.

[FROSTY]

My thinking on this subject is simple. The trackday ORGANISERS need to take a long hard look at what went wrong leading up to this and the other crashes.
THIS time they got lucky and noone was seriously hurt. Next time they may not be so "lucky"

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying for a second the rider wasn't responsible for his own actions. I am saying though that better control by marshalls and the track day "controller" would reighn in this stuff.


There are and always will be "shit happens" senarios -thats different from a rider consistantly riding outside of his ability

[BigAl]

Maybe when guys pay for their track day they also pay a good behaviour bond. nothing like using money as a motivational tool.

As if a $15k bike isn't motivational enough:facepalm:

[jasonu]

As if a $15k bike isn't motivational enough:facepalm:

Apparently to some riders it isn't
I like the bond idea but not sure how it would be policed.

[tigertim20]

Maybe when guys pay for their track day they also pay a good behaviour bond. nothing like using money as a motivational tool.

thats not a terrible idea on the face of it, problem is, these same blokes are prepared to put their own, and others LIVES at risk at times with foolish manouvres.

When that ego and adrenaline start to mix, if these people aren't concerned at possibly wrecking their 5, 10, or 20k machines, will they give a fuck about losing a $100 bond or whatever?

[argada]

That explains how he climbed into them so readily.



med-slow, what's a trackbike thou doing in there?
(... could have been a mistake when he signed up to a group I guess)


It could be tricky to decide the right group to sign up for, the speed difference within each group is massive!
The FAQ (located @ http://www.hamptondowns.co.nz/pages/226/faqs-for-bike-track-days.htm) is miles away from reality.
e.g. according to this, Medium group -> Estimated lap times between 1:25- 1:45
But there are usually people in the Slow group doing something like 1:20 laps, track bikes, warmers, slicks, all sorts, depends on the day.

So lets say you are in the slow group and is significantly faster than "actual novice" people (i.e. LAMS bike, first timer, haven't been riding very long) - but you still get completely blitzed by certain race bikes in the group, so you might decide you are not ready to move up. I'm assuming this type of thing is happening in all the groups. Also I don't think you can get insurance for the fast group, so some very fast people would park in medium group and never move up.

Not sure what the solution is (to get the groups aligned better), but the guidelines given currently aren't great.

[Grubber]

It could be tricky to decide the right group to sign up for, the speed difference within each group is massive!
The FAQ (located @ http://www.hamptondowns.co.nz/pages/226/faqs-for-bike-track-days.htm) is miles away from reality.
e.g. according to this, Medium group -> Estimated lap times between 1:25- 1:45
But there are usually people in the Slow group doing something like 1:20 laps, track bikes, warmers, slicks, all sorts, depends on the day.

So lets say you are in the slow group and is significantly faster than "actual novice" people (i.e. LAMS bike, first timer, haven't been riding very long) - but you still get completely blitzed by certain race bikes in the group, so you might decide you are not ready to move up. I'm assuming this type of thing is happening in all the groups. Also I don't think you can get insurance for the fast group, so some very fast people would park in medium group and never move up.

Not sure what the solution is (to get the groups aligned better), but the guidelines given currently aren't great.

With some sense of logic there is plenty of does and don't s in place for everyone. They just have to stick to the said rule really. Problem is, there is some in the community that are really just trying to make a name for themselves on the day by being excruciatingly faster than someone else, anyone else on the day. If someone was to step up and have a chat they may realise they aren't that clever and pull their heads out of their arses.
Was i subtle enough?
In theory if you rode within the bounds of said rules that are clearly stated at briefing, you could basically ride in any group at all with comparative safety. Overtaking and undertaking in the right spots with the 2 metre rule applied, safe as church!

[jasonu]

, safe as church!

Except if you are a little boy and the church is catholic.

[FROSTY]

Grubber-that somebody should be the person in charge on the day. His/her eyes and ears though are his marshal team.
Ive pulled guys off the track for riding outside the bounds of that speed group before and in the same situation would do so again.
Again hey not for a moment saying that a rider isn't 100% responsible for his actions
But I AM saying that the trackday company has a moral responsibility to do everything they can to ensure everyone gets home safe. If that involves pulling someone off the track to cool jets for awhile so be it.

[Reckless]

Grubber-that somebody should be the person in charge on the day. His/her eyes and ears though are his marshal team.
Ive pulled guys off the track for riding outside the bounds of that speed group before and in the same situation would do so again.
Again hey not for a moment saying that a rider is responsible for his actions
But I AM saying that the trackday company has a moral responsibility to do everything they can to ensure everyone gets home safe. If that involves pulling someone off the track to cool jets for awhile so be it.

To be fair Frosty sometimes its a one off?? and some twit makes a mistake that costs everyone and the marshals cant be blamed. Although the vid screems dum from the get go??

I was at a track day and a guy on a CBR1000 hoofed out of the sweeper we where headin up over the hill. I was lining him up for a pass then he got the shits at the brow and completely buttoned off at the top of the hill?? Full throttle 200k then nothing? I left Plenty of room but certainly gives you the shits when the gap closes that rapidly?? :weird: Medium group as related to here? Hard to understand if the guy in the vid had the skill to be that much faster round the sweeper why he did such a silly thing over the hill?? The other riders lines where constant an predictable?

[nzspokes]

To be fair Frosty sometimes its a one off?? and some twit makes a mistake that costs everyone and the marshals cant be blamed. Although the vid screems dum from the get go??

I was at a track day and a guy on a CBR1000 hoofed out of the sweeper we where headin up over the hill. I was lining him up for a pass then he got the shits at the brow and completely buttoned off at the top of the hill?? Full throttle 200k then nothing? I left Plenty of room but certainly gives you the shits when the gap closes rapidly at 200K?? :weird: Medium group as related to here? Hard to understand if the guy in the vid had the skill to be that much faster round the sweeper why he did such a silly thing over the hill?? The other riders lines where constant an predictable?

If that was the track day a week or so back I think I know whom you mean.

[Reckless]

Na was last year, but you gotta be careful, never assume the predictable is predictable at a track day LOL

[vinducati]

I would like to see the trackday team enforcing the rules more strictly.
I have found that if you point out poor riding they will go and talk to them.
I still feel there should only be passing on the outside at all times.
This works well at ART days.
If you can't pass before the sweeper, in the sweeper, on on exit of sweeper, you are not that fast.
But people need to stop being tossers and pretend they are racing.
Those people need to be spotted, spoken to and if needed be removed.

[Brett]

There is one and only one simple rule that has to be followed...the onus is on the overtaking rider to pick the line and do so safely. If there is any doubt, don't act. It's not a race, no points up for grabs. On the track people still make mistakes. HD is a good example of a technical track that can catch any new comer out. The line up the hill and over the hill is a case in point. It's a fast piece of track with limited long distance vis and no run off room. There is that ripple or bump just beforethe right tightens that can unsettle the bike and if you're not ready for it, or inexperienced, it can be alarming and some riders instinctive response to protect themselves is to shut the throttle and even break. Right or wrong, it's how the react and bad news for someone coming up behind them at +60-70kph.
I know that my indicated speeds down the front vary quite a bit over a session. When I first go out, tyres are cold, not in the rythm, I will usually max 230kph. A couple of laps in, tyres are warm, line onto the straight is tight, braking is tight, I will hit 270kph or so. I woudl imagine many riders are similar and then of course some bikes are quicker than others full stop. Basically, there is always potential for a massive difference in speeds between bikes even within the same group. It's the rider who has to pull their head in and make smart choices. That said...it's unrestricted riding on a track, there will always be external risks.

[Grubber]

Well said Frosty. I think a tap on the shoulder at the right time would work wonders. Unfortunately in this case it wasba tad too late. But again, you are right in what you say.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[SPP]

Got to ask...... Why was the rider in the first half of the video always closing the throttle through the corner? .

I saw that too, first thing I noticed....I think he was lost.

Crack ups. To be fair though it seems to go on forever and is as wide as a runway.


I would like to see the trackday team enforcing the rules more strictly. I have found that if you point out poor riding they will go and talk to them.
I've personally never had to ask a TD marshal to talk to someone or have ever been spoken to by one myself so I'm not sure how angry they get. Playday aren't hacks so I assume they make it very clear when they do pull someone in.


There is one and only one simple rule that has to be followed...the onus is on the overtaking rider to pick the line and do so safely. If there is any doubt, don't act. It's not a race, no points up for grabs. On the track people still make mistakes. HD is a good example of a technical track that can catch any new comer out. The line up the hill and over the hill is a case in point. It's a fast piece of track with limited long distance vis and no run off room. There is that ripple or bump just beforethe right tightens that can unsettle the bike and if you're not ready for it, or inexperienced, it can be alarming and some riders instinctive response to protect themselves is to shut the throttle and even break. Right or wrong, it's how the react and bad news for someone coming up behind them at +60-70kph.
I know that my indicated speeds down the front vary quite a bit over a session. When I first go out, tyres are cold, not in the rythm, I will usually max 230kph. A couple of laps in, tyres are warm, line onto the straight is tight, braking is tight, I will hit 270kph or so. I woudl imagine many riders are similar and then of course some bikes are quicker than others full stop. Basically, there is always potential for a massive difference in speeds between bikes even within the same group. It's the rider who has to pull their head in and make smart choices. That said...it's unrestricted riding on a track, there will always be external risks.

Yeah that's right. Sure TD organizers should police the groups but yes it's simple, don't be a cunt and there's be less to police. That also goes for dudes suffering from the slowness. If there's a log jam behind you at each corner you gotta ask yourself why is that.



I think a tap on the shoulder at the right time would work wonders. Unfortunately in this case it wasba tad too late.
Should do eh. That and a vest of shame. Pink flouro dunce vest for the day.

To be fair I've been lucky and gotten away with some bad decisions and I bet everyone here has.... okay, maybe not that bad but still.

[quickbuck]

Crack ups. To be fair though it seems to go on forever and is as wide as a runway.



.



Well actually it makes no difference how long the corner is. Once you have started the turn and slightly opened the throttle you should NEVER close it..... It makes the bike unstable and is the fastest way to crash...


Although we see another way very soon afterwards....





I can only hope the rider learns better throttle control on his next bike.
















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[SPP]

Yep thats what Ive been told too. I should have been a little clearer though, that turn is a wide open double apex. I find it easy to lose where I am and miss the point to check throttle to ome back for the second apex especailly if Im not concentrating. Lots to improve on.

[quickbuck]

Yep thats what Ive been told too. I should have been a little clearer though, that turn is a double apex and I can miss the point to check throttle and come back for the second apex especailly if Im not looking hard enough. Lots to improve on.




Well, I doubt very much that the corner has been changed since I was last there....
You still should enter in such a place where you late apex it.... Right on the end of the rumble strip IIRC.

There is no point loading up the front tyre by closing the throttle.... None at all. It makes the bike pitch, very unstable and for what?

Yup, lots to work on.
The best bit is a course is only $50 thanks to ACC and www.rideforever.co.nz

Much more constructive as making a pile of mistakes on a track day.





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[SPP]

Always keen to learn more, will look into them.

I have css at hd in a couple of weeks too. Im sure theyll have some good suggestions.

[quickbuck]

Always keen to learn more, will look into them.

I have css at hd in a couple of weeks too. Im sure theyll have some good suggestions.




Sweet, they certainly will....
In fact the first lesson alone will help heaps....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[ckai]

Sweet, they certainly will....
In fact the first lesson alone will help heaps....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.


Always keen to learn more, will look into them.

I have css at hd in a couple of weeks too. Im sure theyll have some good suggestions.

Just what I was gonna say :)

I also think it's gutless of people to be in a group they're clearly too fast for. Who are they kidding?

I wouldn't hesitate to jump up a group of that was the case (highly unlikely) and I'd expect the organisers to pull me aside, tell me I'm moving up, and to see how I go. Not rocket science.

Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk 4

[Grubber]

Always keen to learn more, will look into them.

I have css at hd in a couple of weeks too. Im sure theyll have some good suggestions.

I've done 3 of their levels and you won't regret it. Gives you a far better understanding of how your bike reacts under different circumstances. Recommend it thoroughly.

[Mental Trousers]

I've personally never had to ask a TD marshal to talk to someone or have ever been spoken to by one myself so I'm not sure how angry they get. Playday aren't hacks so I assume they make it very clear when they do pull someone in.

I have a number of times, always if I've been stuck in a medium group cos the fast group was full.

Usually it's guys on litre bikes (I'm on a 450 triple) that squeeze past me near the end of a straight, cut across in front of me and hit the brakes. They're travelling faster so they brake at least 100m earlier than me, meaning I'm at full throttle when they hit the brakes directly in front of me.

[FROSTY]

Hey guys I get that its all fine and wonderfull to have 20/20 vision on hindsight but I do see where the problem actually started.
The problem started at riders briefing.
When the person giving the brief said to treat the yellow pit lane line at a solid wall.
Had the overtaking rider taken the option to cross that yellow line -with the possible concequence of exclusion or a stern talking to later than the entire conversation would be moot.
Repeating what I posted elsewhere- Rider 1 was 2.0m or more from the right side of track entering a right hand corner.
They then chose to drop across to the right.It was a slight readjustment of line that moved them over dirictly into the path of the overtaking rider. This effectively shut the door on the overtaking rider.
As the lead rider dipped to the right the overtaking rider maintained their line.-THAT is what they did wrong.
Maybee they got target fixated -it happens-but another thought is that the option to dip right was taken away from them
There was a definite option for the overtaking rider to dip more to the right at the same time as the lead rider dipped
There was a tonne of room then to regain his line and carry on.

YES the onus is ALWAYS on the overtaking rider to do so safely. But if the vid isn't doctored then that change of line by the lead rider was the deciding factor.
The second rider who crashed.Im sorry but I just can't see how he crashed.Ive rerun the vid about 15 times now and there was a lot of room before the edge of track then about 2.0m of grass to run on and regain the track.

[vinducati]

I have to disagree, rider 1 was clearly always going to move to the right.
Passing is the responsibility of the overtaking rider, you must maintain a 2 meter gap at all times, he is the only one in the wrong.
Yes he could have crossed the yellow line but this is also very dangerous if a rider up ahead is entering the pits. And at that point on track there may be and he would never have seen him.
Rider 1 had every right to do what he did.
Rider 2 had no right to ride so stupidly.

[FROSTY]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.

[vinducati]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.

[tippersv]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.
its a track day, not racing .......

[NAR RG500]

nope--rider 1 wasn't always going to THAT line to the right.Have another look at the vid from 15-18 seconds and 54 seconds on-it was a definite shift right.
Enough to close the door.

There was a late steering input from the lead rider for sure as you say, and I agree with others that the onus is on the overtaking rider to do it safely.

When you are passing on the inside up there you are looking to the right, towards turn one, by the time the passing rider was ten meters behind him the lead bike was probably out of his line of sight, and for sure there was a gap to start with but a tenth of a second later there was not and the passing rider probably froze on the bars. Happens very fast at those speeds.

I think the video makes it look more reckless than it was but I understand why others may disagree.

Cheers

[Grubber]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.

I agree, if i head up that hill i often button off to 180ish if i see someone i am catching. I'm not in a hurry so why mess with people.
Next lap he will often be behind me so it's clear track ahead, all good again.
We all get to ride on for the whole day and i'm sure we get to socialise with other riders more when we don't appear to be pissing them off.
Race day is quite different, it's basically get out of my way as safe as possible. Often it will be me who is gettin the learn, so works both ways.

[Mort]

There's no doubt that the track design contributed to the accident here.

Looking at the video:



At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.


At the point the blue bike committed, he thought he had space to pass, then (within 1.5 secs) he didnt. It was robbed from both sides by the lead rider and yellow line...

It's still rider error but the track design is an issue.

[FROSTY]

Maybe he did, but it still remains the duty of the passing rider to pass safely.
People need to be more careful. There are so many laps at at trackday, why kill someone when all you have to do is wait and pass somewhere where it is a lot safer.
Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.


Hey look I feel for both of those guys.

Im seeing the crash from the prospective of an ex track day organiser and in fairness also an ex racer (gonna be again please)
I saw a HUGE gap AND even with door firmly shut I saw the space and time to make an accident into just a bit of a change underpants incident.

[FROSTY]

One thing that has really given me a grey hair or two hasn't been those passing me at speed. It has always been riders who suddenly change lines. Probably the very worst was going through the pukie esses and the rider looked back over his p right shoulder so the bike swerved left about 3.0m .--I learned that day that a road race bike can indeed do motocross and gets good air.

[FROSTY]

There's no doubt that the track design contributed to the accident here.

Looking at the video:



At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.


At the point the blue bike committed, he though he had space, then (within 1.5 secs) he didnt. It was robbed from both sides by the lead rider and yellow line...

It's still rider error but the track design is an issue.
Holey cow Mort--the day had to come diddn't it--where I agree with you 100%

[vinducati]

To me rider 1 move to the right was hardly sudden and I have been there heaps of times and I could tell you he was always going to close to the line.
It's a line I use, mid track gently in to close to the yellow then gently back to the left to take a wide entry into turn 1.
I do do this very steadily.
Rider 2 is firmly to blame, he was just greedy to pass and his impatience could have cost 3 people their lives.

[Mental Trousers]

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.

Nope. The lead rider was already on a line that would make that pass too tight. The input on the bars was to follow the corner instead of going straight ahead into the wall.

Doesn't matter if the lead rider changes line (these types are the worst to get past on the track), it's still up to the following rider to pass safely.

There are certain passes I won't do on a track day but I will on a race day, passing up the inside at that point is one.

[jasonu]

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.


Except all participants agree not to pass on the inside and also to leave a 2m gap when passing (on the outside). The R1 did neither.

[vinducati]

What really gets me, is Rider 1 is going at quite a low speed and has every right to, all Rider 2 had to do, on an R1, is wait and he could pass anywhere with that sort of HP.
I am just glad that the idiot has been banned.

[SPP]

Sweet, they certainly will....
In fact the first lesson alone will help heaps...


Just what I was gonna say :)


I've done 3 of their levels and you won't regret it. Gives you a far better understanding of how your bike reacts under different circumstances. Recommend it thoroughly.

Reckon, looking forward to it! Lev will be run at a normal Playday but get more coach time, mint... will leave my mirrors on I think.



Looking at the video:

At 00:13 the lead bike is perhaps 5-6 metres from the right side of the track. It appears like there is room to pass.
At 00:14 the blue bike commits to the pass but the lead bike has moved perhaps a metre to the right. 4 meters remain on the right.
At 00:15 the yellow line appears (yes we know its there). Suddenly 3 meters is removed from the space available and ahead is concrete wall. The lead rider also moves over a further meter meaning no available space.
At 00:16. Blue rider collides (presumably thinking he must not cross the line and cannot slow enough. He is committed. I would say he had speed and space for a close but safe pass but he panicked.


How many laps does it take to know pit entrance is right there and be careful? I can see how if you aren't really sure where you are and you commit that by the time you do realize you don't get much time to correct.



Nope. The lead rider was already on a line that would make that pass too tight. The input on the bars was to follow the corner instead of going straight ahead into the wall.

Doesn't matter if the lead rider changes line (these types are the worst to get past on the track), it's still up to the following rider to pass safely.

There are certain passes I won't do on a track day but I will on a race day, passing up the inside at that point is one.

That's how I saw it.

[quickbuck]

Reckon, looking forward to it! Lev will be run at a normal Playday but get more coach time, mint... will leave my mirrors on I think.











.



You will have to tae those up or take them off.... Nothing more dangerous than a rider riding in their mirrors when they are supposed to be looking ahead.



Don't want to give too much away, but for your first lesson you won't need a gearbox or brakes either....



It is NOTHING like a Play Day with coaching.

It is full on One on Two or Three coaching using the track to cement the theory.





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[vinducati]

The School is really great done 3 levels, changed completely how I ride.

[nzspokes]

It's still rider error but the track design is an issue.

The track changed from the lap before?

He would have been round the track a few times before this to learn it.

[Shaun Harris]

there is no good reason nor reasnoable excuse for what happened, the rider fuked up and that has cost others a lot. This shit happens in Racing on occasions, but very rearly.

[vinducati]

I think that sums it up.
We are lucky someone was not killed.
If you are at a ride or trackday, please respect your fellow riders.
Follow the rules, stay cool.

[Grubber]

Reckon, looking forward to it! Lev will be run at a normal Playday but get more coach time, mint... will leave my mirrors on I think.




It's actually nothing like the playday with more coach time.
Prepare to be sitting in a classroom for periods of time and be prepared to be riding very slow for many sessions.
But you will still enjoy it immensely. Take it all in as it is worth it's weight in gold.

[SPP]

It's actually nothing like the playday with more coach time.
Prepare to be sitting in a classroom for periods of time and be prepared to be riding very slow for many sessions.
But you will still enjoy it immensely. Take it all in as it is worth it's weight in gold.

Yeah all good Grubber. Looking forward to it. Is Lev 4.

CSS is scheduled for Mar but invite to bring one class forward for a small group to run same day as Playday instead of the scheduled day. Incentive being it's sooner and more time with your L4 coach(s). Bargain!


Yup, lots to work on.
The best bit is a course is only $50 thanks to ACC and www.rideforever.co.nz

Much more constructive as making a pile of mistakes on a track day.

:niceone: Looked them up and realized this is the road training run by Prorider (up here). A couple of friends have already done it and thought it was great! Lining up mid Feb to do it with them.

[quickbuck]

Yeah all good Grubber. Looking forward to it. Is Lev 4.

CSS is scheduled for Mar but invite to bring one class forward for a small group to run same day as Playday instead of the scheduled day. Incentive being it's sooner and more time with your L4 coach(s). Bargain!



:niceone: Looked them up and realized this is the road training run by Prorider (up here). A couple of friends have already done it and thought it was great! Lining up mid Feb to do it with them.


Awesome.
Funny old thing you can go straight to the ProRider site by clicking on the big banner in my signature block....

The Rideforever link is to enable everybody to find their local training provider.
Good on you SPP for getting amongst the motorcycle education system.



Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Shaun Harris]

Its prob in this thread some where already, but which group had organised this track day?

[sil3nt]

Its prob in this thread some where already, but which group had organised this track day?

http://www.playdayontrack.co.nz/

[quickbuck]

http://www.playdayontrack.co.nz/

hmmmm. Housten we have a problem....



Passing can only be done under acceleration, so no passing under braking is allowed If a car catches you we ask you let it pass or if it is slower on the straights get it to move ahead of you in the queue for the next set of laps.

From what I see about Playdays (and a quick squiz over the web site) they are Cage Focused....

[Shaun Harris]

hmmmm. Housten we have a problem....



From what I see about Playdays (and a quick squiz over the web site) they are Cage Focused....








Exactually mate, they do not understand motorcycling properly lke MOTO TT and CCS do. Has any one contacted the company to ask for there opinion on this incident?

[quickbuck]

Exactually mate, they do not understand motorcycling properly lke MOTO TT and CCS do. Has any one contacted the company to ask for there opinion on this incident?

Heck, stop that... That isn't the KB way....











I bet not.....

[Shaun Harris]

Heck, stop that... That isn't the KB way....











I bet not.....








haha yea silly of me I guess

[Mental Trousers]

From what I see about Playdays (and a quick squiz over the web site) they are Cage Focused....

Ed and Mandy (I think that's her name) are both ex-Hampton Downs Ride Days staff, I've never seen either of them turn up on 4 wheels unless it was Ed's van with a bike in the back and they've both worked at a huge number of track days (for Ed that's almost all of the Hampton Downs Ride Days as well as almost all of the Play Days that have involved bikes, so a good couple of hundred I'd say).

Ash was also part of the team but left due to other commitments.

Play Days are also the crew that run the South Island 4 tracks in a week for bikes tours that are coming up in February/March

Website doesn't show much in the way of bikes cos cars bring in the money.

[aderino4]

You can't and should not blame the organiser unless it's a blatant negligent e.g. releasing 200 riders at the same time.

The rider trying to pass on the inside made a mistake.
That's where the buck stops.

If you keep trying to blame someone else; then you're not much better than cyclist lobby group who're trying to change everyone else except improving the cyclist themselves.

[Mental Trousers]

You can't and should not blame the organiser unless it's a blatant negligent e.g. releasing 200 riders at the same time.

The rider trying to pass on the inside made a mistake.
That's where the buck stops.

If you keep trying to blame someone else; then you're not much better than cyclist lobby group who're trying to change everyone else except improving the cyclist themselves.

Yep .

[quickbuck]

Ed and Mandy (I think that's her name) are both ex-Hampton Downs Ride Days staff, I've never seen either of them turn up on 4 wheels unless it was Ed's van with a bike in the back and they've both worked at a huge number of track days (for Ed that's almost all of the Hampton Downs Ride Days as well as almost all of the Play Days that have involved bikes, so a good couple of hundred I'd say).

Ash was also part of the team but left due to other commitments.

Play Days are also the crew that run the South Island 4 tracks in a week for bikes tours that are coming up in February/March

Website doesn't show much in the way of bikes cos cars bring in the money.
Ahhhh. Thanks for that...
Didn't realise it was THAT Ed!

I see why they are cage focued on the web site now.....


Agree totally, they run a pretty tight ship....
HD Ride Days were great, apart from one major incident that wasn't their fault either.....

Agree, should not blame the organisers for one persons mistake at all.....

[Mort]

How many laps does it take to know pit entrance is right there and be careful? I can see how if you aren't really sure where you are and you commit that by the time you do realize you don't get much time to correct.


The difference between this lap and every single one he had done before was that he wasn't in that exact same situation on prior laps. He wasn't making a pass at that speed with those riders riding the way they were. It's still rider error but the track is still an issue.

[Kickaha]

The difference between this lap and every single one he had done before was that he wasn't in that exact same situation on prior laps. He wasn't making a pass at that speed with those riders riding the way they were. It's still rider error but the track is still an issue.

The track wasn't an issue at all, his stupidity was

[300weatherby]

The track wasn't an issue at all, his stupidity was

As Kickaha says: Not the track, but STUPIDITY!, the entire incident was so slow it should never have been an issue, road riders trying to go "fast" on a track, have a habit of seeing very little untill too late, then freezing or totally over reacting. Only one of the three riders is actually blameless crashwise. There is no cure for stupidity. When I come up fast on a road rider on track (test days) I get carefull and watch them like a hawk and get the fuck away again double time, I take responsibility for getting past without incident.

There is no cure for stupidity, look out for your self is the best you can do.

[Grubber]

Exactually mate, they do not understand motorcycling properly lke MOTO TT and CCS do. Has any one contacted the company to ask for there opinion on this incident?

Actually i think they do understand bikes. These are the same guys that run CCS now and were a part of the team that run it before.
CCS is much more intense into bikes than any track days i know so pretty sure they would know a bit about bikes to be fair.

[aderino4]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

[vinducati]

Playday are well run.
I would prefer it if the had scrutineering but apart from that they are bike and safety focussed.
The issue is those who ignore the rules.
It is important that the marshalls police rider behavior strictly.
I have seen people having a wee chat all through the briefing,.
I would personally like to see the day costing more, so they can reduce the number of bikes on track.
30 bikes is very crowded, and harder to police.

[Grubber]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

Yea this is pretty much it in a nutshell.
How do you stop someone from being a dick after he already has been a dick. Bit too late then. All you can do is monitor each lap as best you can and pull them aside if they are not playing the game, but in the case of this guy, it would have been a bit hard to stop him doing what he did at that time unless he had been a dick several previous times to alert you to that situation becoming an event.

[FROSTY]

You can't and should not blame the organiser unless it's a blatant negligent e.g. releasing 200 riders at the same time.
The rider trying to pass on the inside made a mistake.
That's where the buck stops.
If you keep trying to blame someone else; then you're not much better than cyclist lobby group who're trying to change everyone else except improving the cyclist themselves.
You I think are missing the point Im making. To simply blame the rider is the ultimate copout for a trackday organiser.
The organiser ALWAYS has to look at every incident or accident and see what can be done to prevent them happening again.
Given there was a clear instruction in that speed group not to overtake on the inside then I see three areas needing adressing.
1) How did the message not get across to the rider concerned?
2) why did the rider not use the available track to avoid a colllision?
3)was this a one off from that rider or had they been riding like that all day?

1) may be it wasn't emphasised in the brief .Maybee the rider diddnt attend the brief. Could short speed group briefs be usefull? Could sighnage emphasising each speed groups specific rules be used?
2)Could the words -except in an emergency be added when discussing crossing the lines ?What would the ramifications of doing so be?
3)How well were marshalls monitoring on track activity? Could this rider have been reighned in earlier in the day or even session?

What I apsolutely HATE is the blame phsycology shown here.Rather than saying -what can we do different to avoid an incident like this happening again ?

Ohh and yea I know full well a bad rider can have moments of brilliance whilst a great rider can for a short time ride like "a red misted knob jockey"

[p.dath]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

This is more like:
Me and two of my mates were hammering in nails. One of my mates hit my thumb with his hammer.

[Mort]

You I think are missing the point Im making. To simply blame the rider is the ultimate copout

What I apsolutely HATE is the blame phsycology shown here.Rather than saying -what can we do different to avoid an incident like this happening again ?



Perfect.

Nobody is saying the rider is blameless either. This "feature" of the track is, shall we say, hazardous. It's right that everyone reading this tread understands how this accident happened (thanks to the excellent video) and rides accordingly. Otherwise, it will happen again because riders are human and can fall in to this situation.

[haydes55]

I just think it's stupid to not realise that a motorbike on a race track is going to try apex a bend.

[Grubber]

I just think it's stupid to not realise that a motorbike on a race track is going to try apex a bend.

Very true.
Quickest way between 2 points really.
I think there is one or two that are just over analysing the whole deal.
My firm point is that the overtaking rider screwed up and it was never up to the others to do anything but what they were doing.
Even racing has a far amount of cover going on, as in close up the gap so no one passes, it's the name of the game somewhat.
It's just who does it better than the rest are the clever ones. But in this case it wasn't a race and there was no need to overtake fullstop.
I hate it when people go to the ends of the earth to find the oh so perfect answer. i don't go out there without the knowledge that it could end in a very bad day.

[bluninja]

I was hammering a nail to the wall one day and I hit my thumb with the hammer.
I blame the hammer and we should get hammer to be designed differently, maybe made of soft fluffy material that will not hurt when I hit myself.

To those who are trying to find scapegoat (track, organiser, seagull, little Johny who is at school, etc) think about the sentence above.

Well some people are technically inept and behind the times...use a nail gun <_<

How about this scenario? You put a nail into the wall with the gun. You've been told to check that the nail won't go right through the wall and hit something the other side, but you're in a rush and do it anyway and the nail shoots through and hits somebody (but without killing them). You think to yourself...."if I'd used a hammer I would have had a sore thumb" :bleh:

[Mental Trousers]

Ohh and yea I know full well a bad rider can have moments of brilliance whilst a great rider can for a short time ride like "a red misted knob jockey"

If you know that why are you asking?? I wasn't at the track when that incident happened but the fact the guy was actually on the track means he wasn't yet deemed dangerous so he either made a bad call or got the red mist during that session.

You can't stop that.

[Cracker]

Why can't we go the "other way round" on that track. Would make it a new adventure to many of us who have done the track to death. Would also get rid of a yellow line brick wall rule which the poor geezer clipped and caused the chaos.

How hard can that be ? If Len Brown can do, we can do it.

[rapid van cleef]

I think the council were concened that the straight heads towards the highway when it runs in the original direction, thats why it got changed apparently?

[vinducati]

No run off on turn 3 for a start.
No run off on turn 1.
the track direction thing is a myth.

[Erelyes]

Hang on a mo--To be clear I 100% agree with that sentiment BUT if the guy on the R1 saw that big ol 2.0m gap and the fairly big difference in speed and felt it was a safe gap then the guy in front who changed line has to accept a fair bit of responsibility for the crash.


Hey look I feel for both of those guys.

Im seeing the crash from the prospective of an ex track day organiser and in fairness also an ex racer (gonna be again please)
I saw a HUGE gap AND even with door firmly shut I saw the space and time to make an accident into just a bit of a change underpants incident.

Fair enough. My comment would be that as a racer you'd be entirely prepared for someone to shut the door in a case like that, and would know what to do / how to react.

That said I doubt even Rossi would have tried that move.

As a track dayer you wouldn't know what to do and would collect the other rider (like here). Accordingly you shouldn't try a passing maneuver like that in the first place. KNOWING that you're not a good enough rider to deal with that, is the key. Unfortunately sometimes ego gets in the way!

End of the day, overtaking rider failed to forsee an entirely predictable (and even likely) move from the rider in front. Missing obvious and likely hazards on the road is arguably more dangerous, at least he was on a track and got away with minor injury to body (albeit major injury to pride and bike)

[FROSTY]

Fair enough. My comment would be that as a racer you'd be entirely prepared for someone to shut the door in a case like that, and would know what to do / how to react.

That said I doubt even Rossi would have tried that move.

As a track dayer you wouldn't know what to do and would collect the other rider (like here). Accordingly you shouldn't try a passing maneuver like that in the first place. KNOWING that you're not a good enough rider to deal with that, is the key. Unfortunately sometimes ego gets in the way!

End of the day, overtaking rider failed to forsee an entirely predictable (and even likely) move from the rider in front. Missing obvious and likely hazards on the road is arguably more dangerous, at least he was on a track and got away with minor injury to body (albeit major injury to pride and bike)
Hey thanks a million for turning this back to a discussion from being a slinging match.
I can though tell you with 100% confidence I even rusty as I am could have avoided that accident. So If I could avoid it any club level rider could have avoided it. -there were just so many options available.
1)swing right as little as 50cm and carry on -(go straight to the other guys and apologise straight after)
2)pull right and get hard on the brakes. Not even to stop-enough to come on in and blend behind the other guys -or even stopp if needed I'd likely stop and go into the pits to accept the bollocking I was likely to get
Thats without thinking about it

[wharfy]

Ever since Scott Dixon ran over a guy (forget his name) on an Anglo American Harley at Puke and knocked one of his legs off.

Do you mean they actually had cars AND bikes out on the track at the same time ??? FUCK

[Kickaha]

Do you mean they actually had cars AND bikes out on the track at the same time ??? FUCK

Used to do it at Ruapuna all the time, it was good fun

[Grumph]

Used to do it at Ruapuna all the time, it was good fun

Still do - still is - except when a bloody erratic three wheeled thing wanders out....

the track is there for all - and the same for all. if some people won't obey what they're told - repeatedly - just take them off and don't let them back.
the risk level starts out the same for all - then you factor in other people and their unpredictable reactions...

safer to just go racing IMO....

[scracha]

Oh yeah, overtaking in the inside is so easy because they are faster in and blocking your way through the turn because they are coming out slower too :laugh:
:

To be fair, some of the idiots they let out in the medium and even fast group beggar belief. They start braking halfway along the straight(s) and the unexpected speed difference when you come up to them means that the safest option is to pass them on the inside. Passing on the outside going into the corner often isn't an option because they're usually 1cm from the outside. Passing them on the inside through the corner isn't allowed and would normally spook them. Passing them on the outside through the corner isn't allowed and you know their riding will spook you. Passing them on the exit isn't possible because they're normally riding GSXR1000's or R1's.

The marshalls need to be more proactive in FORCING people into groups more appropriate for their riding.

[nzspokes]

The marshalls need to be more proactive in FORCING people into groups more appropriate for their riding.

This may sound obvious but why not give everybody transponders? At the end of each track day everybody gets there bast and average times for the track recorded in it. Then for the next day the organizers can put everybody in the right group. Just a thought.

And forget your book and your in the newb group with me.....:shit:

[sil3nt]

This may sound obvious but why not give everybody transponders? At the end of each track day everybody gets there bast and average times for the track recorded in it. Then for the next day the organizers can put everybody in the right group. Just a thought.

And forget your book and your in the newb group with me.....:shit:This is what I was thinking as well.

I also think the two medium groups should be split by engine size. Medium-slow less than 600 medium-fast 600 and over. And also limit the the speed in the newbie group to 150kph.

It sounds a bit 'nanny state' but there is nothing worse than getting spanked down the straight and having them pull in front of you and hit the brakes 100m before you need to.

[Shaun Harris]

This may sound obvious but why not give everybody transponders? At the end of each track day everybody gets there bast and average times for the track recorded in it. Then for the next day the organizers can put everybody in the right group. Just a thought.

And forget your book and your in the newb group with me.....:shit:






And who is going to pay the cost involved in this idea mate, it does have merit but but but

[AndyR1]

To be fair, some of the idiots they let out in the medium and even fast group beggar belief. They start braking halfway along the straight(s) and the unexpected speed difference when you come up to them means that the safest option is to pass them on the inside. Passing on the outside going into the corner often isn't an option because they're usually 1cm from the outside. Passing them on the inside through the corner isn't allowed and would normally spook them. Passing them on the outside through the corner isn't allowed and you know their riding will spook you. Passing them on the exit isn't possible because they're normally riding GSXR1000's or R1's.

The marshalls need to be more proactive in FORCING people into groups more appropriate for their riding.

Totally agree with you - sure you can overtake at the inside if you are just in front of the other rider even around the turn and give him the 2m space all the time - but mostly the inside rider is then so slow that i ended up driving parallel around the turn with him and without keeping 2m distance as well. That's what I just don't like so I slow even more down so we can stay behind each other.
Just a question of discipline and knowing what you are doing and what the other rider will do.

In the end, my health and my bike are more worth than being in front of another rider by squeezing, blocking or bother others :-)

[Shaun Harris]

To me the inside outside passing thing at track days is rubbish realy. It is a race track and you all go knowing the risks. As many have said already, you get such a variety of speed difference due to engine size and gonads, that this rule causes a lot of riders to get very impatient and ride badly In my opinion causing incidents.

[Drew]

this one?more char

Dredging this video, I don't see why everyone is going mental about the blue bike.

What the fuck was the squid on the RSV doing? Riding like a bitch going slow as fuck up the middle of the track, then veers to the inside. Guy on the blue bike had no where to go, and the fucktard on the 675? that lays it down in the grass is just a tard.

[Shaun Harris]

Dredging this video, I don't see why everyone is going mental about the blue bike.

What the fuck was the squid on the RSV doing? Riding like a bitch going slow as fuck up the middle of the track, then veers to the inside. Guy on the blue bike had no where to go, and the fucktard on the 675? that lays it down in the grass is just a tard.






who ever it was on the last bike deffinately freaked out and crashed totally on his own accord

[Marmoot]

Why is there a pitlane entry right and divider wall around the apex of a high speed corner?

[Shaun Harris]

Why is there a pitlane entry right and divider wall around the apex of a high speed corner?





I believe it is because the track was designed to go in the opposite direction, but another poster in this thread says that is not correct? but in my mind it is correct. Going in the opposite direction makes so much more sense to me in many of the turns.

[BoristheBiter]

I believe it is because the track was designed to go in the opposite direction, but another poster in this thread says that is not correct? but in my mind it is correct. Going in the opposite direction makes so much more sense to me in many of the turns.

If not then the designer needs shooting.

[Shaun Harris]

If not then the designer needs shooting.





even where the start finish lines were on the track originally all but prooves it was designed to go opposite to now

[BoristheBiter]

even where the start finish lines were on the track originally all but prooves it was designed to go opposite to now

I all was thought this was the case and many threads discussed this but now it seem to be put down as urban myth.
I think it was fucked up and no one wants to take responsibility for the fuck up that caused a good track to become ho-hum. (imo)

[Shaun Harris]

I all was thought this was the case and many threads discussed this but now it seem to be put down as urban myth.
I think it was fucked up and no one wants to take responsibility for the fuck up that caused a good track to become ho-hum. (imo)






It is just due to the location of the motorway mate, it would cost a dam fortune to fence along there to stop any car wheels etc flying onto it causing major dramas.

[sil3nt]

Anyone know what is happening with the extension? They had machines on it on Thursday when we were there for the trackday and playday reckon there will be a motard race on it at the end of the month yet I can't find any official news about what is going on.

[BoristheBiter]

It is just due to the location of the motorway mate, it would cost a dam fortune to fence along there to stop any car wheels etc flying onto it causing major dramas.

Like I said, someone fucked up.

[Drew]

Anyone know what is happening with the extension? They had machines on it on Thursday when we were there for the trackday and playday reckon there will be a motard race on it at the end of the month yet I can't find any official news about what is going on.

It's going to be used as a motard track at an upcoming event, I was informed by a reliable source who has had a ride around it in this vein.

[sil3nt]

It's going to be used as a motard track at an upcoming event, I was informed by a reliable source who has had a ride around it in this vein.Little bit confused. Does this mean it will be sealed or will it be one of these half sealed half dirt events?

[Drew]

Little bit confused. Does this mean it will be sealed or will it be one of these half sealed half dirt events?It will be left as is, (obviously with a bit of a clean up), and be the dirt section.

[sil3nt]

It will be left as is, (obviously with a bit of a clean up), and be the dirt section.Ah yep that makes sense. Would be nice if they could go to the money tree and get the damn thing sealed!

[Drew]

Ah yep that makes sense. Would be nice if they could go to the money tree and get the damn thing sealed!As far as I know, the place is still under the management of the receivers. They're never gonna spend money on it, so it's hurry up and wait for a buyer for the place.

Was a while ago they were running it of course, but I haven't heard any noises about a sale as yet.

[Shaun Harris]

As far as I know, the place is still under the management of the receivers. They're never gonna spend money on it, so it's hurry up and wait for a buyer for the place.

Was a while ago they were running it of course, but I haven't heard any noises about a sale as yet.






it will be amazing to see any one buy it, seeing it is built on Swamp

[Drew]

it will be amazing to see any one buy it, seeing it is built on SwampI think that guy that built Highlands park, made an offer that was declined. All overheard or third hand info though, so might not be the case.

[Shaun Harris]

watched the car racing today at ( On TV actually) Highlands park, it looks very fast cool and flowing

[300weatherby]

You wouldn't race bikes on there though, cars don't count.

[Drew]

watched the car racing today at ( On TV actually) Highlands park, it looks very fast cool and flowingAnd deadly for bikers at every second turn.

I know you and I have opposing opinions on the safety of Manfeild long track, but I'd certainly think twice about racing at Highlands.

[Shaun Harris]

And deadly for bikers at every second turn.

I know you and I have opposing opinions on the safety of Manfeild long track, but I'd certainly think twice about racing at Highlands.






AGREED, but would be a cool track to practice on

[Gremlin]

Anyone know what is happening with the extension? They had machines on it on Thursday when we were there for the trackday and playday reckon there will be a motard race on it at the end of the month yet I can't find any official news about what is going on.
There was going to be an event running in the afternoon of the 23rd Feb, which has now been postponed. Endurance event and motard 1hr race. Motards were going to be using the extension, as dirt and then re-enter the main track. As said, postponed now. Instead, two Playdays instead.

Other event happening at some point shortly is a mudder event of 20km for crazy people to run/walk.

[scracha]

This is what I was thinking as well.

I also think the two medium groups should be split by engine size. Medium-slow less than 600 medium-fast 600 and over. And also limit the the speed in the newbie group to 150kph.


Nah, if your'e gonna do that then...split it by corner entry speed :innocent: Some pretty handy folks out there on 400's and 2 stroke 250's.


it will be amazing to see any one buy it, seeing it is built on Swamp
Are you talking about Christchurch or that very average track above Huntly?

[sil3nt]

Some pretty handy folks out there on 400'sThanks :msn-wink:


:bleh:

[Shaun Harris]

Nah, if your'e gonna do that then...split it by corner entry speed :innocent: Some pretty handy folks out there on 400's and 2 stroke 250's.


Are you talking about Christchurch or that very average track above Huntly?








BINGO to above huntly man

[SPP]

To be fair, some of the idiots they let out in the medium and even fast group beggar belief. They start braking halfway along the straight(s) and the unexpected speed difference when you come up to them means that the safest option is to pass them on the inside. Passing on the outside going into the corner often isn't an option because they're usually 1cm from the outside. Passing them on the inside through the corner isn't allowed and would normally spook them. Passing them on the outside through the corner isn't allowed and you know their riding will spook you. Passing them on the exit isn't possible because they're normally riding GSXR1000's or R1's.

The marshalls need to be more proactive in FORCING people into groups more appropriate for their riding.
yeah like that



Dredging this video, I don't see why everyone is going mental about the blue bike.

What the fuck was the squid on the RSV doing? Riding like a bitch going slow as fuck up the middle of the track, then veers to the inside. Guy on the blue bike had no where to go, and the fucktard on the 675? that lays it down in the grass is just a tard.
Harsh. I realize things look very different from behind a windscreen (instead of a computer screen) and had another look to make sure. Nah, I don't see it that way.

With Daytona on the outside and RSV mid track both going average speed I can see why he went to the inside but he could have buttoned off put himself between them then passed RSV just up the road. Maybe impatience got the better of him.



Why is there a pitlane entry right and divider wall around the apex of a high speed corner?
Fuck knows but at the last Playday the organizers spent a fair bit time at the morning briefing talking about this crash, the 2m rule and pit entry.



... but mostly the inside rider is then so slow that i ended up driving parallel around the turn with him and without keeping 2m distance as well. That's what I just don't like so I slow even more down so we can stay behind each other...
At the last Playday dong CSS? Just back off and let them go. You weren't allowed brakes and only one gear, bound to happen.

[vinducati]

I have heard that some insurance companies are looking at any incident at a trackday where the rider they cover has made a claim. If it involves another bike and that bike is seen to be the cause. As in passing to close and taking the rider out, or some such obvious incident they will pursue the rider at fault.
So if you are uninsured they will want you to pay etc.
If you are riding without insurance best ride in the fast group where insurance is void anyway.
Have to say the AMCC days are run with better safety than others, all Marshall posts, marshals on track, and scrutineering.
I think it is reckless to run a trackday where thee is no scrutineering at all.
People just sign a disclaimer basically saying the did it themselves is a joke.

[sil3nt]

I have heard that some insurance companies are looking at any incident at a trackday where the rider they cover has made a claim. If it involves another bike and that bike is seen to be the cause. As in passing to close and taking the rider out, or some such obvious incident they will pursue the rider at fault.
So if you are uninsured they will want you to pay etc.
If you are riding without insurance best ride in the fast group where insurance is void anyway.
Have to say the AMCC days are run with better safety than others, all Marshall posts, marshals on track, and scrutineering.
I think it is reckless to run a trackday where thee is no scrutineering at all.
People just sign a disclaimer basically saying the did it themselves is a joke.Telling people they should in the fast group if they don't have insurance is a joke.

[vinducati]

Telling people they should in the fast group if they don't have insurance is a joke.

Sorry I did not word that correctly
What I meant was people should be aware of this insurance company policy.
Did not mean to say people who are inexperienced should be in the fast group.
But seriously does anyone think a bike should be let on the track with no scrutineering?

[Drew]

I have heard that some insurance companies are looking at any incident at a trackday where the rider they cover has made a claim. If it involves another bike and that bike is seen to be the cause. As in passing to close and taking the rider out, or some such obvious incident they will pursue the rider at fault.
So if you are uninsured they will want you to pay etc.
If you are riding without insurance best ride in the fast group where insurance is void anyway.
Have to say the AMCC days are run with better safety than others, all Marshall posts, marshals on track, and scrutineering.
I think it is reckless to run a trackday where thee is no scrutineering at all.
People just sign a disclaimer basically saying the did it themselves is a joke.Good fucken luck to them. Their client signed a waiver stating that they couldn't hold anyone else accountable for any incident. At least, at every track day I've ever been to.

The company might not have signed the contract, but it'd be a fucken hard case for them to get their money from a court order.

[Drew]

But seriously does anyone think a bike should be let on the track with no scrutineering?Oh fuck off! That sorta makes the organisers responsible for the worthiness of the bikes out on track. Buggered if I'd take that on.

Used to race in a club race series that didn't do scrutineering. Wasn't a problem.

[vinducati]

Good fucken luck to them. Their client signed a waiver stating that they couldn't hold anyone else accountable for any incident. At least, at every track day I've ever been to.

The company might not have signed the contract, but it'd be a fucken hard case for them to get their money from a court order.

That is probably the case
Have you taken your Ducati monster s4 to a trackday?

[Drew]

That is probably the case
Have you taken your Ducati monster s4 to a trackday?Nope, thrashed and crashed the living shit out of a 749R Ducati though. Good times.

[vinducati]

Love ducati's

[Drew]

Love ducati'sNot me. Hate the piles of shit with a passion.

[Gremlin]

Good fucken luck to them. Their client signed a waiver stating that they couldn't hold anyone else accountable for any incident. At least, at every track day I've ever been to.
Correct me if I'm wrong (only ever done 2 trackdays as I'm normally marshalling) but doesn't the waiver only say organisers? ie, other participants can be held liable?

[Drew]

Correct me if I'm wrong (only ever done 2 trackdays as I'm normally marshalling) but doesn't the waiver only say organisers? ie, other participants can be held liable?

Not one that I've signed. Always said I was doing it aware of the risks, and on my own back.

[scracha]

I have heard that some insurance companies are looking at any incident at a trackday where the rider they cover has made a claim. If it involves another bike and that bike is seen to be the cause. As in passing to close and taking the rider out, or some such obvious incident they will pursue the rider at fault.
So if you are uninsured they will want you to pay etc.
If you are riding without insurance best ride in the fast group where insurance is void anyway.
Have to say the AMCC days are run with better safety than others, all Marshall posts, marshals on track, and scrutineering.
I think it is reckless to run a trackday where thee is no scrutineering at all.
People just sign a disclaimer basically saying the did it themselves is a joke.


Sounds like bullshit and I'd quite happily tell the insurance company to take a running fuck and laugh as they threaten me with court action. It's a race track...the insurance companies won't have a leg to stand on. Are they gonna claim "reckless" driving because you're doing over 100 or braked too hard? Who's gonna be the judge and jury on this one.

[R650R]

I will ask my broker friend about this. Its an interesting situation as more and more people take out track day coverage, sooner or later they will look for some way to recoup costs.
It could be similar to say a negligent camper being billed for the cost of fighting a bushfire etc, so maybe if someone majorly negligent there could be a case, will ask my friend anyway...

[R650R]

Heard back from my broker friend, they will pursue costs anywhere there is a legal avenue. Couldn't get any specifics more than that but something to consider is when you sign the disclaimer you agree to abide by the rules of the day eg no passing on inside etc which kinda construes a contract.
So if someone highsides in front of you causing you to crash , pure bad luck, no ones going to get chased for that.
But if some muppet passes on inside and forces someone to crash then they could possible be chased up.
Really it sounds like a complete non event for 99% of people who go to track days but if you are a complete muppet ignoring marshalls/rules etc you could expect problems from insured parties.

[scracha]

But if some muppet passes on inside and forces someone to crash then they could possible be chased up.
Really it sounds like a complete non event for 99% of people who go to track days but if you are a complete muppet ignoring marshalls/rules etc you could expect problems from insured parties.

"sorry...my brakes failed"
"sorry...I was avoiding another rider"
"sorry mate...I didn't see you"
"sorry....I misjudged my braking marker and safest option was to go up inside rather than crash into back of other rider"
"sorry...I got confused about the whole countersteering thing they instructed me to do"
"sorry....I couldn't comprehend how slow that guy I crashed into was going....it's the medium group FFS and he was going way slower than everyone else."
"sorry...I think there was a bit of oil on the track"
"sorry...I've given the trackday officials a false name so good fuckin luck chasing me for it"

I expect fuck all problems from insured parties at a track day. Boss of piss is the maximum they can expect from me.

If you can't afford to bin it / can't pay the insurance excess / can't take time off work for injuries...don't take it to the fuckin track...end of.