Lane splitting appears to be being policed in Wellington

[bounce]

Just got ticketed on the way home for steadily moving through the peak hour motorway traffic coming up to the gorge.
First time in ten years so I guess it is a focus this month.

Has anybody had success contesting that they were inside the cats-eyes and thus overtaking the center lane as opposed to undertaking the right hand lane?

Cheers

[jim.cox]

So just what was the alleged offence? - should be written on the ticket :(

[bounce]

haven't got it. His machine broke so it will be in the post. He was saying undertaking at the time though.

[FJRider]

It is up to the individual officer to decide if you justify getting a ticket ... write your letter of explanation and see what happens ...

Take it to court even ... what's the worst than can happen ... ??? :innocent:

(post results in this thread)

[R650R]

It's scorching hot this week, anyone stuck in a cage including a cop will be septic about someone escaping the heat and traffic jam.
From a legal perspective and that's all that matters, you cant be guilty of undertaking if in separate marked lane.
If he's a smart cookie he'll just call it improper overtaking.
Unless the points are going to cost you your license its prob not worth going to court...

[Katman]

Look on the bright side - at least you don't live in Queensland.

[RDJ]

Unless the points are going to cost you your license its prob not worth going to court...

Yes. As someone said in another context - "you can't win, you can't argue a draw, and you can't get out of the game". If you're not a Protected Member of an Approved Underclass(™) and / or a Self-Nominated Victim of the Perpetual Grievance Industry(™) a la Kahuis… then we just gotta pay up, put up and shut up.

[MD]

Bad luck buddy. That's bad news to hear since I'm using the bike a fair bit these days to get through the grid lock.

Was it that old lanky git on the cop bike? He hates motorcycles full stop and even more so black Kawasakis. He ticketed me twice when I had the black 636, not for lane splitting though. Paint your bike pink and he wont notice you. Other than that I don't think you will win this argument.

Before others say serves you right, Bounce is one of the sensible splitters that try not to draw attention to themselves and upset car drivers.

[Madness]

I always chuckle a little when I read words like grid & lock being used in discussions about Wellington traffic ;)

[vifferman]

Keep left.:yes:

Naughty people like me (and you) wouldn't have to pass in an "inappropriate manner" if people kept to the left.
Like they're supposed to.
And like I do when going home and everyone's crawling along, hugging the centreline. :pinch:
So *I* keep left. Gutterwards.
It's not my fault the VFR has mental pannier-mounted radiators and overheats if I'm crawling along in traffic.

[Swoop]

I always chuckle a little when I read words like grid & lock being used in discussions about Wellington traffic ;)
I'm still scratching my head over "being stopped" and ZX14 in the same post. :scratch:

[Ocean1]

Keep left.:yes:

Naughty people like me (and you) wouldn't have to pass in an "inappropriate manner" if people kept to the left.
Like they're supposed to.

That's what I said. But someone else said that was bollux, and there wasn't any such rule.

I looked, briefly, and I couldn't immediately find any official admonitions to keep left.

But I remember reading stuff in my licence getting paraphernalia about "though shalt keep as far to the left as is practically possible."

[Ocean1]

I'm still scratching my head over "being stopped" and ZX14 in the same post. :scratch:

... In fact I'm struggling to understand how a cop could pull a splitting C90 in crawling traffic...

[russd7]

Just got ticketed on the way home for steadily moving through the peak hour motorway traffic coming up to the gorge.
First time in ten years so I guess it is a focus this month.

Has anybody had success contesting that they were inside the cats-eyes and thus overtaking the center lane as opposed to undertaking the right hand lane?

Cheers

semantics i know but even if your wheels are on the left of the centre line if any part of your bike is hanging over, and it will be if you are hugging the centre line, then you are technically encroaching on the next lane.

[Scuba_Steve]

That's what I said. But someone else said that was bollux, and there wasn't any such rule.

I looked, briefly, and I couldn't immediately find any official admonitions to keep left.

But I remember reading stuff in my licence getting paraphernalia about "though shalt keep as far to the left as is practically possible."

It's there, in the Road User Rule 2004 I think?

Edit: Yep Land Transport Road User Rule 2004 (s) 2.1 [keeping left]

[jetboy]

I split every day in Auckland and go past police cars and police bikes with zero issues, heck even the police bikes up here split (they check for texting drivers sometimes) and if you split and pull up behind them they move over to let you past.

[roogazza]

haven't got it. His machine broke so it will be in the post. He was saying undertaking at the time though.

Sorry for you Bounce, I've been splitting lanes for 50 years !
God there's some sad fucks in the job nowdays.
Sorry for the proper Policemen too.
I'm betting he probably wears his uniform to bed ?

[Gremlin]

I split every day in Auckland and go past police cars and police bikes with zero issues, heck even the police bikes up here split (they check for texting drivers sometimes) and if you split and pull up behind them they move over to let you past.
Even had one move over when everyone was gridlocked outside the District Court, and I used the oncoming to get past some cars to get round into an access road. That was nice :laugh:

[SMOKEU]

It's scorching hot this week, anyone stuck in a cage including a cop will be septic about someone escaping the heat and traffic jam.


If the weather really is that hot, then a motorbike is one of the worst ways to get around. Ever tried being in hot weather wearing full protective riding gear at slow speeds? Being in an air conditioned car is much nicer. So it's not about "escaping" the heat, it's about magnifying the heat, several times.

[RDJ]

If the weather really is that hot, then a motorbike is one of the worst ways to get around. Ever tried being in hot weather wearing full protective riding gear at slow speeds? Being in an air conditioned car is much nicer. So it's not about "escaping" the heat, it's about magnifying the heat, several times.

Yeah this be true. I still prefer the freedom of a bike so I usually dump water down the back / front of my mesh jacket and that works very well, as it evaporates. Done days' riding in the US deserts this way and find it cheap and effective.

[Blackbird]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune - I'm always a bit cautious about splitting as there's not a lot of practice required in Coromandel :innocent:. My sole experience of splitting in Wellington was a really positive one. A few years back, I was riding down the Kapiti coast to catch the ferry and the morning traffic was diabolical. I slowly caught up to a cop bike but was nervous about passing him so just sat behind him. When we stopped at a roundabout, he looked round and gave a "follow me" signal then took off at a goodly rate of knots with me in his wake. Towed me all the way through to the Gorge before he waved and turned off - awesome experience! :Punk:

[MIXONE]

Bad luck buddy. That's bad news to hear since I'm using the bike a fair bit these days to get through the grid lock.

Was it that old lanky git on the cop bike? He hates motorcycles full stop and even more so black Kawasakis. He ticketed me twice when I had the black 636, not for lane splitting though. Paint your bike pink and he wont notice you. Other than that I don't think you will win this argument.

Before others say serves you right, Bounce is one of the sensible splitters that try not to draw attention to themselves and upset car drivers.

The wanker hates red ducatis too!

[MIXONE]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune - I'm always a bit cautious about splitting as there's not a lot of practice required in Coromandel :innocent:. My sole experience of splitting in Wellington was a really positive one. A few years back, I was riding down the Kapiti coast to catch the ferry and the morning traffic was diabolical. I slowly caught up to a cop bike but was nervous about passing him so just sat behind him. When we stopped at a roundabout, he looked round and gave a "follow me" signal then took off at a goodly rate of knots with me in his wake. Towed me all the way through to the Gorge before he waved and turned off - awesome experience! :Punk:

That was probably the old bike cop.He led a group of 5 bikes (me included) splitting through the traffic exactly where the OP was pulled up one morning.A genuine good cunt.:niceone:

[James Deuce]

If the weather really is that hot, then a motorbike is one of the worst ways to get around. Ever tried being in hot weather wearing full protective riding gear at slow speeds? Being in an air conditioned car is much nicer. So it's not about "escaping" the heat, it's about magnifying the heat, several times.

Kathmandu do water-absorbing gel-filled scarfs that you tie around your neck. Does a brilliant job of keeping blood circulating through your head cool. Cotton can absorb many times its own weight in water so soaking a cotton tee and then putting your jacket on over the top can keep you cool for hours.

[Hoon]

Has anybody had success contesting that they were inside the cats-eyes and thus overtaking the center lane as opposed to undertaking the right hand lane? You can try but everyone that lanes splits knows that it's near impossible to stay on the left side of the cats eyes the ENTIRE time (remember - your entire bike and body, not just the tyres) and I dare say you already know this. If it's more a matter of "Fuck you, I've been doing this every day without getting pinged so I'm gonna bullshit my way out of it" then it's entirely up to you whether you have the spare time to go to court, present your compelling argument of how you were able to do this and test the stupidity of the judge. However you can be assured that the cops Summary of the facts will clearly state you didn't....numerous times.....over a lengthy period of observation.

TLDR: No, don't bother wasting your time, just pay the ticket. Next time, keep a better eye out for cops so you can play it extra safe when you see them.

[pzkpfw]

Does anyone have any statistics on lane-splitting accidents?

[James Deuce]

Does anyone have any statistics on lane-splitting accidents?
A friend had one late last year and it is honestly the only time I've heard of a bike being written off after a lanesplitting incident.

[TheDemonLord]

You can try but everyone that lanes splits knows that it's near impossible to stay on the left side of the cats eyes the ENTIRE time (remember - your entire bike and body, not just the tyres) and I dare say you already know this. If it's more a matter of "Fuck you, I've been doing this every day without getting pinged so I'm gonna bullshit my way out of it" then it's entirely up to you whether you have the spare time to go to court, present your compelling argument of how you were able to do this and test the stupidity of the judge. However you can be assured that the cops Summary of the facts will clearly state you didn't....numerous times.....over a lengthy period of observation.

TLDR: No, don't bother wasting your time, just pay the ticket. Next time, keep a better eye out for cops so you can play it extra safe when you see them.

You might have some luck trying the following arguements:

Ask the cop to present video or other objective evidence to back up his statements (the arguement would go along the lines of "if this was a speeding fine, there would be a radar reading to back up the statement, but in this instance there isn't anything objective to backup his claims")

you can also try and spin the arguement that from the Cop's position in the traffic he would not have had a sufficient visibility to accurately determine your position relative to the Cats Eyes - bonus points for inferring the only way he would be able to do so would be by being directly behind you - ie straddling 2 lanes.

but as above - going to court is risky - but you may be able to 'win' by muddying the water (ie claiming that the cop has not met the burden of proof required to issue and infringement)

[wharekura]

...God there's some sad fucks in the job nowdays...I'm betting he probably wears his uniform to bed ?
And a special relationship with the taser, has the comm on to fall asleep too and talks to the neighbours with arms crossed.

[FJRider]

going to court is risky - but you may be able to 'win' by muddying the water (ie claiming that the cop has not met the burden of proof required to issue and infringement)

In court the Cop says to the Judge ... I saw him do it. Judge says ... Requirements for burden of proof fulfilled ... I find him guilty of the offense. Next case please ... :msn-wink:

I'm guessing the OP wont want to take it to court to prove me wrong ... :killingme

[mrchips]

Sorry to hear & thanks for the heads up.

Pitty they aren't policing the keep left & use left lane unless passing rules.

I've been witness to so many 'nose to tails' on my welly commutes to know sensable filtering / splitting WILL save you a whole lot of hurt... FACT

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[James Deuce]

I've been witness to so many 'nose to tails' on my welly commutes to know sensable filtering / splitting WILL save you a whole lot of hurt... FACT


I tend to agree with that analysis and the let's just remember that the cop in question is actually a dick and there won't be any special instruction. He just believes that motorcyclists deserve special instruction. A mate at work who rides a black VTR has come under special scrutiny from time to time from this chap and it never ends well.

[rastuscat]

Does anyone have any statistics on lane-splitting accidents?

Anecdotally, we attend shit loads of crashes where a motorbike, moped or cycle are overtaking stationary traffic on the left.

Doing it legally doesn't make it safe. The cars from cpnflicting direction just aren't looking for a cycle, moped or motorcycle coming through a gap like that.

It's okay though, last thing the rider gets to post on KB as he gets loaded into the ambulance is that it was the drivers fault.

[Ocean1]

Anecdotally, we attend shit loads of crashes where a motorbike, moped or cycle are overtaking stationary traffic on the left.

Doing it legally doesn't make it safe. The cars from cpnflicting direction just aren't looking for a cycle, moped or motorcycle coming through a gap like that.

It's okay though, last thing the rider gets to post on KB as he gets loaded into the ambulance is that it was the drivers fault.

Then perhaps it's time for some wee adds on the telly, rather than banging on about the inherent evels of some magic velocity.

And perhaps we should break that "shit loads" down into locations, eh? I suspect most car drivers in Wgtn are well used to bikes trundling past them every morning. In fact it's the sole reason most bike owners ride to work.

Maybe it's time to look at the traffic flow data and admit that commuting bikes relieve a great deal of congestion at peak traffic times, and that more of them would have an exponentially beneficial effect. And to perhaps begin asking ourselves what we can do to encourage that.

Dedicated motorcycle lanes, maybe? :shifty:

[Scuba_Steve]

Anecdotally, we attend shit loads of crashes where a motorbike, moped or cycle are overtaking stationary traffic on the left.

Doing it legally doesn't make it safe. The cars from cpnflicting direction just aren't looking for a cycle, moped or motorcycle coming through a gap like that.

It's okay though, last thing the rider gets to post on KB as he gets loaded into the ambulance is that it was the drivers fault.

I've never been hit lane splitting in the many years I've done it, I have however been sideswiped while wholly in a lane. The vehicle next to me saw only a car sized gap but thanks to his massive oversized "safety enhanced" pillars never saw the bike in it.
Not to say this could not have happened if lane splitting at the time, but I do pay extra attention to gaps for this reason.
I lane split more than I ride with traffic so given the distance travelled vs outcomes using both methods I'm probably sitting around 100x safer lane splitting.

I know the risks of lane splitting, I know the risks of staying with traffic, most the time staying with traffic is more dangerous than splitting. This is my risk, I'm the one feeling the pain if shit happens so it should be my choice & my choice alone! Not Govt's, not some cops, but mine.
In-fact if anyone makes that choice for me & shit goes wrong I should then have the right to smack them in the face with a 4x2 so they can join me in feeling the result of their decision

[rastuscat]

Lane splitting and overtaking are closely related but not the same thing.

I just wanted to highlight the dangers.

Smack me in the face with a hundred by fifty for giving a shit.

[caspernz]

Mmmm, lane splitting on the whole seems to run quite smoothly in Wellington traffic. Ironically while some car drivers seem dense...a few bikers come across as plain retarded :weep:

The problems can be minimised if bikers travel at a sensible differential speed, all travel down the centre, stay the fuck off the shoulder or breakdown lane, don't try to squeeze thru once the lanes narrow in some pinch points...to mention just the main items that come to mind :headbang:

I just chuckle though when thinking of advocating to a group of individual thinkers that a common approach to lane splitting might help...:killingme

[buggerit]

Anecdotally, we attend shit loads of crashes where a motorbike, moped or cycle are overtaking stationary traffic on the left.

Doing it legally doesn't make it safe. The cars from cpnflicting direction just aren't looking for a cycle, moped or motorcycle coming through a gap like that.

It's okay though, last thing the rider gets to post on KB as he gets loaded into the ambulance is that it was the drivers fault.

I agree that lane splitting where there is opposing traffic adds another danger to be aware of compared to motorway lane splitting and
approach any gap in the lane to the right or left of me with a high degree of caution.

[swbarnett]

overtaking stationary traffic on the left.
I like the term "undertaking". Fits quite well with it's other meaning.

[pzkpfw]

Anecdotally, we attend shit loads of crashes where a motorbike, moped or cycle are overtaking stationary traffic on the left.

Doing it legally doesn't make it safe. The cars from cpnflicting direction just aren't looking for a cycle, moped or motorcycle coming through a gap like that.

Thank you.

That brings to mind more the situation of two-wheelers going down the left of cars, in a situation where there is not another lane there. It doesn't surprise me at all that a car will go left into a park or intersection (maybe (realistically) without 3 seconds indicating) and collect some bike coming up on the left. I figure this (when the traffic isn't at a stand-still) is the situation that makes passing on the left (unless in a different lane) the traffic offence it is, and as both a driver and rider I don't put anywhere near 100% of any "blame" on the car in this kind of event.

But ... what about actual lane splitting? Riding between two lanes of vehicles, all going in the same direction. Technically passing the lane to the left, on the right, within the lane (and trying not to pass the lane to the right, on it's left). Do you have access to any stats on the danger in that? Accidents per year?


In recent times, the only time a car has tried to squash me was when I was riding along, in a lane, at the same speed as the vehicle in front (approaching the 80 k cameras on the Gorge in Welly) with correct following distance, and some guy in a people mover from J-Ville tried to go into my lane on top of me. (Mirror then head check and a quick lane change got me out of his way. No point in fighting for position! Then I beeped. He steadfastly refused to even look.)

The only time I've ever felt in danger while lane splitting it was deliberate. Began passing a truck-and-trailer on a straight bit of road, and his wheels were a good distance away from the lane divider line. By the time I was 75% past him, his wheels were kissing the paint, and I could see him in his mirror, looking at me. I had to squeeze in between some cars on my right. (Thanks, drivers, for having some following distance to let me in to).


I'll keep splitting, when the situation calls for it.

[Hoon]

To put things in perspective, a friend of mine just wrote off his bike lanesplitting. Car changed lane, he swerved and ran into the back of another car at speed. He's off work on ACC. Funny thing about KB is that you never hear about lanesplitting failures with people only ready to admit their successes.

Don't get me wrong - I lane split heavily, love that I'm able to do it do and will continue to promote and do it for as long as I can. The difference is that I am under no illusion about the risks/dangers and benefits/costs to society regarding lane splitting. Saying lane splitting is safer is delusional. The argument "lane split to avoid getting rear ended" is laughable at best. You may have fooled yourself but don't expect others to buy into your fantasy... outside of these forums that is :)


Maybe it's time to look at the traffic flow data and admit that commuting bikes relieve a great deal of congestion at peak traffic times, and that more of them would have an exponentially beneficial effect. And to perhaps begin asking ourselves what we can do to encourage that.

Dedicated motorcycle lanes, maybe? :shifty:
Yes great idea.....in a fantasy world where roads are free to build, motorbike accidents and injury rehabilitation costs (and resulting loss of productivity) are acceptable, and car driver re-education is 100% successful. I'd say that someone a lot smarter than you and I has already crunched the numbers and (judging by their response) has concluded that motorcycle uptake is NOT to be encouraged.

[pzkpfw]

To put things in perspective, a friend of mine just wrote off his bike lanesplitting. Car changed lane, he swerved and run into the back of another car at speed. He's off work on ACC. Funny thing about KB is that you never hear about lanesplitting failures with people only ready to admit their successes.

Don't get me wrong - I lane split heavily, love that I'm able to do it do and will continue to promote and do it for as long as I can. The difference is that I am under no illusion about the risks/dangers and benefits/costs to society regarding lane splitting. Saying lane splitting is safer is delusional. The argument "lane split to avoid getting rear ended" is laughable at best. You may have fooled yourself but don't expect others to buy into your fantasy... outside of these forums that is :)


Yes great idea.....in a fantasy world where roads are free to build, motorbike accidents and injury rehabilitation costs (and resulting loss of productivity) are non-existant, and car driver re-education is 100% successful. I'd say that someone a lot smarter than you and I has already crunched the numbers and (judging by their response) has concluded that motorcycle uptake is NOT to be encouraged.

His mistake was not noticing the gap. Cars use gaps to change lanes. You very seldom see cars on the motorway simply side-swipe each other.

(Relative to myself) I split faster in bumper-to-bumper traffic and slower in gappy traffic. Because in bumper to bumper traffic - the cars are more predictable.

And as several of us have found, not lane splitting can make us look like gaps, and then we get cars changing lanes onto us.

Lane splitting, if done with due caution (and trying to understand driver reaction/behaviour) is safer, in my opinion.

[Hoon]

Who's at fault is irrelevant but I agree. However children playing on the road "with caution", or leaving loaded firearms around the house "with caution" can be safe too but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone that does it WILL be safe as well. You have to account for the entire population, not just your personal experience or ability.

[Ocean1]

Yes great idea.....in a fantasy world where roads are free to build, motorbike accidents and injury rehabilitation costs (and resulting loss of productivity) are acceptable, and car driver re-education is 100% successful.

So in your "real world" we don't currently have dedicate pushbike lanes? They were constructed free of charge? They saved a great deal of ACC's money? What?


I'd say that someone a lot smarter than you and I has already crunched the numbers and (judging by their response) has concluded that motorcycle uptake is NOT to be encouraged.

And these smart people, they're exclusively to be found in charge of transport budgets, eh?
And nobody else is smart enough to have anything to say on the topic?

In fact the numbers were quite nicely crunched for London not that long ago, with quite the opposite result. Dramatically so. As a result of which they're currently working out how to best accommodate an increase in motorcycle commuters in order to reduce congestion that's crippled the city's economy for decades. A city, I might add that already has a massively expensive public transport system.

[grubbytech]

I'm from the London area & ride to work at Heathrow on a regular basis. Most Londoners appreciate that motorcycles will lane split & give way for motorcyclists to do so too.
The only time I get issues on my way to work is when it's foreigners in hire cars using their sat navs instead of their mirrors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cheshirecat]

I'm from the London area & ride to work at Heathrow on a regular basis. Most Londoners appreciate that motorcycles will lane split & give way for motorcyclists to do so too.
The only time I get issues on my way to work is when it's foreigners in hire cars using their sat navs instead of their mirrors.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLondons one of my fav places to ride

[Hoon]

So in your "real world" we don't currently have dedicate pushbike lanes? They were constructed free of charge? They saved a great deal of ACC's money? What?
Well I guess someone that knows more than you and I must have crunched the numbers and found it acceptable in this case. But pushbikes != motorbikes... just like London != Auckland/Wellington.

Hey I don't know the "whys"....just telling you how it is.

[swbarnett]

Saying lane splitting is safer is delusional. The argument "lane split to avoid getting rear ended" is laughable at best.
I have been rear ended while travelling in line with traffic. I've also had to start splitting to avoid the same as the traffic slowed. I have never had anywhere near the same problems while lane-splitting. It is you who are deluded.

For the record, I have split in Auckland traffic as a daily, all weather, commuter for as long as I can remember (started in the early '80s).


I'd say that someone a lot smarter than you and I has already crunched the numbers and (judging by their response) has concluded that motorcycle uptake is NOT to be encouraged.
Actually, someone has crunched the numbers and concluded exactly the opposite. According to their research (in Belgium), a 10% uptake of motorcycles would result in a 25% reduction in congestion (IIRC) and something like a 40% uptake would remove congestion entirely.

[swbarnett]

That brings to mind more the situation of two-wheelers going down the left of cars, in a situation where there is not another lane there.
I've seen a cyclist do this beside traffic travelling at about 20kph. When they came to grief (thankfully not seriously) they blamed the car driver - quite loudly.

[swbarnett]

....just telling you how it is.
Hardly. Without showing us your credentials that prove you are a world authority on the subject you can only tell us how you think it is. Even then, the world authorites have been known to be wrong.

[Hoon]

Actually, someone has crunched the numbers and concluded exactly the opposite. According to their research (in Belgium), a 10% uptake of motorcycles would result in a 25% reduction in congestion (IIRC) and something like a 40% uptake would remove congestion entirely.
Belgium != Auckland/Wellington.

You're right I have no qualification but it's not me that makes these decisions, its those in power at our local councils and government (that supposedly know more on the subject than you and I) and it is these people that need to be convinced, not me.
The fact that there is no dedicated motorcycles lanes here, endorsement for lanesplitting or encouragement to ride motorcycles is a reflection of their current standing and you don't need any qualification to look outside the window to see that.

[swbarnett]

Belgium != Auckland/Wellington.
That may be true in the purest sense but all countries share common elements that mean the findings from one country may be applicable in another. The same study needs to be conducted here to find out if the results hold up locally. Personally I suspect they do because the stated reasons make sense no matter what country you're in (in the western world anyway).


You're right I have no qualification but it's not me that makes these decisions, its those in power at our local councils and government (that supposedly know more on the subject than you and I) and it is these people that need to be convinced, not me.

The fact that there is no dedicated motorcycles lanes here, endorsement for lanesplitting or encouragement to ride motorcycles is a reflection of their current standing and you don't need any qualification to look outside the window to see that.
All very true. I was referring to your opinion on the safety and efficacy of lane-splitting that you seemed to be putting as fact.

[@ndy]

Sometimes I see motorcycles in still traffic that don't split... And I cry a bit inside... While I pass the line.

[Scuba_Steve]

Belgium != Auckland/Wellington.


Yep but someone has previously done numbers for Wellington & don't have the numbers at hand but it came to a small increase to bikers (think it might have been round 5%) would see Wellington's congestion all but gone.
Course these things never take into account the wanker upfront causing all the probs but the numbers have been crunched & they came favourable to bikes.

[Hoon]

Hey I'm not disputing that motorcycling reduces congestion - I thoroughly agree with it and I'm sure that the establishment does too. But unlike KB members they also have to weigh up the costs and disadvantages of encouraging motorcycle use such as roading, road toll and driver education etc. I'm no expert so (foolishly) rely on those that are and have all the data to make those decisions for me and the fact we have an anti-motorcycling establishment tells me that the disadvantages (as it currently stands) must outweigh the benefits.


All very true. I was referring to your opinion on the safety and efficacy of lane-splitting that you seemed to be putting as fact.
Yep my bad. My "lane splitting is not safer" comment is purely my opinion, not fact - including the delusional bit :). But this view is mainly due to lack of evidence or any support of lanesplitting by the establishment so I suspect they also share this belief. What is fact is that any argument for or against lane splitting safety is entirely personal opinion until an NZ study is done to conclude otherwise.

[Ocean1]

the fact we have an anti-motorcycling establishment tells me that the disadvantages (as it currently stands) must outweigh the benefits.

Yeah that.

Or they're a bunch of lackwit arseholes that'll be the first agin' the wall come the revolution.

[Jackpot]

Don't know if anyone else in Wellington noticed but the first week back for a fair few there was little traffic congestion. Straight run from LH to Wgtn CBD.

Then this week when all the Govt. peeps came back it was locked up again.

[swbarnett]

I'm no expert so (foolishly) rely on those that are and have all the data to make those decisions for me
The trouble is that we can't be sure that 1. TPTB have all the data (sorry to be pedantic but they can at best have all the available data) and 2. They're not being subjective and ignoring data that doesn't fit with their pre-conceived ideals (I'm pretty sure they will ignore such data as it's human nature to do so).


and the fact we have an anti-motorcycling establishment tells me that the disadvantages (as it currently stands) must outweigh the benefits.
All we can infer from this is that the establishment has an agenda in this direction. Whether based on an impartial appraisal of the data or not we cannot say.


Yep my bad. My "lane splitting is not safer" comment is purely my opinion, not fact - including the delusional bit :).
Glad we got that cleared up. As you were...


But this view is mainly due to lack of evidence or any support of lanesplitting by the establishment so I suspect they also share this belief.
A lack of evidence doesn't prove the opposite. All that can be inferred is that neither side of the argument is proven. My own view is based on my experience. I agree that I can only say for certain that it appears that lane-splitting is safer for me. I choose to make the leap of faith and conclude from this that if lane-splitting is done with due care it is safer for everybody. This, of course, is wild speculation until proven imperically.


What is fact is that any argument for or against lane splitting safety is entirely personal opinion until an NZ study is done to conclude otherwise.
Agreed

[bosslady]

I was filtering(?) on Friday once I hit the queue at the end of the SW where the on ramp lights at Manukau are. Saw something funny up ahead (drivers door quickly open then shut, but not all the way) got closer (I don't split very fast) then he flung his door wide open, I stopped with heaps of room to spare and asked him what he was doing. He just yelled at me to wait my turn! What a dork. I just went around him and sped off towards the lights and got too excited, let the clutch out too quick, did a MINI wheelie then sped off, lol.

[nerrrd]

Sometimes I see motorcycles in still traffic that don't split... And I cry a bit inside... While I pass the line.

Don't cry, we're just chillin' :cool:.

[Berg]

OK, my take on lane splitting in Wgtn being that I'm a road policing resource:Police: (remembering that this is MY TAKE only and not necessarily the bosses or other police members opinion).
I'm ok with lane splitting as long as the rider is doing it at a reasonable speed (let's just say not doing warp factor 9), the rider isn't clipping mirrors etc, the rider is not forcing the traffic to move for them (Mr Harley rider by the terrace tunnel, this means you) and the traffic is not overly jam packed.
What I do see as a problem is riders who continue to lane split near and through major merge points and riders who insist on passing up the left on the hard shoulder. The Pukerua Bay hill from Plimmerton up is a classic for this. In my humble experience I find the shoulder less safe there than lane splitting and here's my reason why.
If you are between lanes two and three splitting and the person in lane two (right lane) urgently needs to stop they know they still have lane one traffic to deal with so hopefully they might open their normally sleepy eyes and look before pulling left. Anybody in lane one (left lane) is not expecting to see traffic on their left so when the phone goes off (because we all know nobody drives while on the phone:laugh:) or the baby chunders or they run out of gas most of them will just swing left without looking cleaning up any motorcyclist steaming up the hard shoulder.
Just my one cent (two cents was giving it too much credit)

[swbarnett]

What I do see as a problem is riders who continue to lane split near and through major merge points
Any particular reason for this? Is your objection reserved for those between lanes 1 & 2 (closes to the on-ramp)? Or do you consider between 2 & 3 bad in this situation also?


and riders who insist on passing up the left on the hard shoulder.
Totally agree. This is just scuicidal. I've seen cyclists taken out doing this for exactly the reasons you stated.

[Berg]

Any particular reason for this? Is your objection reserved for those between lanes 1 & 2 (closes to the on-ramp)? Or do you consider between 2 & 3 bad in this situation also?

Between lanes two and three are normally OK at merge points but so many vehicles change lanes at these points either for courtesy sakes (allowing others on or off) or panic and dive for offramps that it becomes just that bit more risky.


Totally agree. This is just scuicidal. I've seen cyclists taken out doing this for exactly the reasons you stated.
Cyclists going down the gorge on the left:facepalm: in their Lycra and stackhats

[SPman]

You very seldom see cars on the motorway simply side-swipe each other.

You've obviously never driven in Perth!

[swbarnett]

Cyclists going down the gorge on the left:facepalm: in their Lycra and stackhats
I'm a bit further north than that. This happened on residential roads in Auckland.

[RDJ]

You've obviously never driven in Perth!

Nor in Singapore...

[Clockwork]

OK, my take on lane splitting in Wgtn being that I'm a road policing resource:Police: (remembering that this is MY TAKE only and not necessarily the bosses or other police members opinion).
I'm ok with lane splitting as long as the rider is doing it at a reasonable speed (let's just say not doing warp factor 9), the rider isn't clipping mirrors etc, the rider is not forcing the traffic to move for them (Mr Harley rider by the terrace tunnel, this means you) and the traffic is not overly jam packed.
What I do see as a problem is riders who continue to lane split near and through major merge points and riders who insist on passing up the left on the hard shoulder. The Pukerua Bay hill from Plimmerton up is a classic for this. In my humble experience I find the shoulder less safe there than lane splitting and here's my reason why.
If you are between lanes two and three splitting and the person in lane two (right lane) urgently needs to stop they know they still have lane one traffic to deal with so hopefully they might open their normally sleepy eyes and look before pulling left. Anybody in lane one (left lane) is not expecting to see traffic on their left so when the phone goes off (because we all know nobody drives while on the phone:laugh:) or the baby chunders or they run out of gas most of them will just swing left without looking cleaning up any motorcyclist steaming up the hard shoulder.
Just my one cent (two cents was giving it too much credit)

Cyclists and scooters use the hard shoulder all the time, (and I understand that they are legally as much vehicles as motorcycles and cars) which is why it is beholden upon ALL road users to look before entering the shoulder regardless.

[swbarnett]

Cyclists and scooters use the hard shoulder all the time, (and I understand that they are legally as much vehicles as motorcycles and cars)
Not legal as long as the traffic to the right is moving. Even for cyclists as I understand it. I'm not sure if this changes if the cyclist is using a marked cycle lane?


which is why it is beholden upon ALL road users to look before entering the shoulder regardless.
Irrespective of the legality this is good practice; part of one's situational awareness.

[bounce]

thanks for all the comments guys,
1) the infringement came back entitled 'passing on the left' so I will write a letter stating the fact that I was within my lane markings at the time and see if that gets me anywhere.
2) the officer didn't bother to fill in my drivers licence number on the infringement. Does this in any way invalidate the notice in NZ? seems to me like it should be a mandatory field really..

And I honestly don't have a problem with policing of dangerous splitting, some guys ride like plonkers, glaring at cars when they try to change lanes even after indicating for 3 seconds and cutting through tiny gaps and using the breakdown lane etc.. but as others have posted, when traffic is peak hour, I honestly feel safer being between the lanes than sitting between cars. I've been riding ten years and been driven into the back of 3 times at traffic lights, so I am not super confident in our 4 wheeled friends ability to determine the existence of a motorcycle when they are following behind it :brick:

[GrayWolf]

To put things in perspective, a friend of mine just wrote off his bike lanesplitting. Car changed lane, he swerved and ran into the back of another car at speed. He's off work on ACC. Funny thing about KB is that you never hear about lanesplitting failures with people only ready to admit their successes.

Don't get me wrong - I lane split heavily, love that I'm able to do it do and will continue to promote and do it for as long as I can. The difference is that I am under no illusion about the risks/dangers and benefits/costs to society regarding lane splitting. Saying lane splitting is safer is delusional. The argument "lane split to avoid getting rear ended" is laughable at best. You may have fooled yourself but don't expect others to buy into your fantasy... outside of these forums that is :)


Yes great idea.....in a fantasy world where roads are free to build, motorbike accidents and injury rehabilitation costs (and resulting loss of productivity) are acceptable, and car driver re-education is 100% successful. I'd say that someone a lot smarter than you and I has already crunched the numbers and (judging by their response) has concluded that motorcycle uptake is NOT to be encouraged.

I think the operative word in that accident was 'SPEED'... ...
A good and safe rule of thumb, dont lane split above 50kph, and dont travel more than 20kph quicker relative to the traffic speed. it they are doing 10, no more than 30kph.. and even then i would say that can be too fast in some traffic conditions.

[swbarnett]

A good and safe rule of thumb, dont lane split above 50kph,
This will certainly help one avoid unwanted attention from the constabulary. However, with a strong safety focus one can split safely to higher speeds.


and dont travel more than 20kph quicker relative to the traffic speed.
This is what's important. It matters little what speed the traffic around you is doing (within reason). This is why it is possible to play table tennis in a smooth, fast moving train.


and even then i would say that can be too fast in some traffic conditions.
Indeed, this is the most important point that can be made about lane-splitting (or any other manoeuvre). One must always make a value judgement to stop things going pear shaped.

[Katman]

The trouble is that we can't be sure that 1. TPTB have all the data (sorry to be pedantic but they can at best have all the available data).....

We should probably be thankful that they don't have all the data.

[Rhys]

Don't bother writing a leter they will only send out a generic "we have looked at your claim and on you are wrong :bleh:"

Ask for a court hearing, that is the only way you will have a chance

[Paul in NZ]

What I do see as a problem is riders who continue to lane split near and through major merge points and riders who insist on passing up the left on the hard shoulder. The Pukerua Bay hill from Plimmerton up is a classic for this. In my humble experience I find the shoulder less safe there than lane splitting and here's my reason why.


Normally I would agree re the hard shoulder but at Pukerua Bay I think its actually the safest place as long as you are NOT doing a billion kph.

Going up the middle creates a bit of confusion where the two lanes merge near the top and its easier to move up the left shoulder and through a gap after all the merging has happened to the wide center bit and pass up to the top of the hill where there is always a good gap to slot into.

I note that I'm not a wild lane splitter as I ride a bike wider than Kansas and am never in that much of a rush to get to work... Going home up Pukerau Bay Hill is different. It should be encouraged there as crawling up a steepish hill on a bike is just plain asking for it. You will miss foot and fall over at some point... Not to mention the chaos to an air cooled engine creeping up there... Its a horrible bit of road design for a motorcycle...

While on that subject. Can you please find out the persons name who designed the left turn at the bottom of the Paekakareki Hill road. Getting the Sprint around that without wobbling halfway to the ocean is a PIA... Not to mention being bloody dangerous - it really is a shocking thing...

[Swoop]

... glaring at cars when they try to change lanes even after indicating for 3 seconds...
You indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds and then move IF THE WAY IS CLEAR. It is NOT a given right to move simply because you have indicated for the required 3 seconds.

[James Deuce]

Lol. 3 seconds. People would be shocked if they knew how long 3 seconds really is. I'd nearly faint if I saw someone indicate for 2 seconds before making a move.

[Swoop]

Yup. NZ'ers cannot count "one thousand, two thousand, three thousand" without rushing as if there is free beer and fish-un-chups. Even counting the "ticks" of the car's indicator would be a start.

[Ocean1]

While on that subject. Can you please find out the persons name who designed the left turn at the bottom of the Paekakareki Hill road. Getting the Sprint around that without wobbling halfway to the ocean is a PIA... Not to mention being bloody dangerous - it really is a shocking thing...

Not flash is it? I'd normally say toughen up and learn to ride slow, but there's plenty that can't, including most novices, and the left at the bottom of the hill got wrong sees you in real danger from the southbound lot.

All because the villiage didn't rate an overpass.

[pzkpfw]

You indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds and then move IF THE WAY IS CLEAR. It is NOT a given right to move simply because you have indicated for the required 3 seconds.

Other drivers can be arses about accepting your need to change lanes. Some of them will deliberately close-up the gaps when they see someone indicate.

So in - my car - I will sometimes be fairly "pushy" about changing lanes. I know use of my indicator doesn't give me any "right" - but if I need to change lanes I need to change lanes.

In return I'm very very careful to watch for indicators and allow others to change lanes. Fair's fair. When splitting on my bike, I'll hang back and wait to let people change lanes; I don't assume any right over them.

[MIXONE]

Slightly off topic but I have just seen 5 popo on beemas ride in to the Police College.
Is Wellywood about to be saturated with noddys?

[Ocean1]

Slightly off topic but I have just seen 5 popo on beemas ride in to the Police College.
Is Wellywood about to be saturated with noddys?

I've seen 5 in convoy here before now.

Wasn't there some change in policy to do with suddenly not requiring bikes for VIP escort duty a few years ago that decimated the fleet?

[tristania]

I was forced to lane split today to avoid a head-on with a cager going the wrong way down Molesworth Street :clap:

[Kickaha]

Slightly off topic but I have just seen 5 popo on beemas ride in to the Police College.
Is Wellywood about to be saturated with noddys?

Rastuscat is picking one up from Welly this weekend, maybe he's getting an escorted tour

[Ocean1]

Rastuscat is picking one up from Welly this weekend, maybe he's getting an escorted tour

I'm off to post watch on the hill with the camera, the bastards will be off up there for a fang, you wait and see.

[James Deuce]

I'm off to post watch on the hill with the camera, the bastards will be off up there for a fang, you wait and see.

Where did I leave those caltrops?

[scumdog]

Lol. 3 seconds. People would be shocked if they knew how long 3 seconds really is. I'd nearly faint if I saw someone indicate for 2 seconds before making a move.

Hell yeah - three seconds might wear out the indimacators ya know...

[carbonhed]

While on that subject. Can you please find out the persons name who designed the left turn at the bottom of the Paekakareki Hill road. Getting the Sprint around that without wobbling halfway to the ocean is a PIA... Not to mention being bloody dangerous - it really is a shocking thing...

First time I did that on the Blade I was simply incredulous that they would stand my bike up at 45 degrees and expect me to wait and hold that position until it was time to pull out. Cahhhhnts. Hard to stall though... I suppose.

[James Deuce]

First time I did that on the Blade I was simply incredulous that they would stand my bike up at 45 degrees and expect me to wait and hold that position until it was time to pull out. Cahhhhnts. Hard to stall though... I suppose.

It's a motorcycle calming feature. Stops us lunatics from meandering over the Goat Track of Death at sub-optimal speed, doncha know?

[FJRider]

While on that subject. Can you please find out the persons name who designed the left turn at the bottom of the Paekakareki Hill road. Getting the Sprint around that without wobbling halfway to the ocean is a PIA... Not to mention being bloody dangerous - it really is a shocking thing...

It has been NZTA policy for some time ... for ALL roads meeting at main roads ... to meet at right angles (ie:90 degrees) to the main road. In the interest of driver safety of course ...

Fine in principal maybe ... but often in reality ... it makes it worse.

[carbonhed]

It has been NZTA policy for some time ... for ALL roads meeting at main roads ... to meet at right angles (ie:90 degrees) to the main road. In the interest of driver safety of course ...

Fine in principal maybe ... but often in reality ... it makes it worse.

It's not the angle onto SH1 it's the gradient you're held at and have to traverse. This photo flattens it out somehow.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/carbonhed/PKKHill.jpg

[Bald Eagle]

Rastuscat is picking one up from Welly this weekend, maybe he's getting an escorted tour

Saw him loading at the ferry this a.m and had a chat. They been doing their re-certifications is all. The new beemer looks very tidy.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[quickbuck]

Slightly off topic but I have just seen 5 popo on beemas ride in to the Police College.

Is Wellywood about to be saturated with noddys?


WOW, I saw 5 of them in a location 150k north of there....... I wonder what they are up to ;)

Near the Police College you say......
Did you ever consider they might be based there?

Even motorcycle policemen go through training from time to time.......






Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[MIXONE]

Near the Police College you say......
Did you ever consider they might be based there?

Even motorcycle policemen go through training from time to time.......






Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

I have lived near the college for 6 years and that is the first time I have seen more than 2 at once.

[pzkpfw]

To the drivers, if you lane split and just keep going you are away and off and out of their mind. (Though some do still get all anti.)

In this case, the driver sees you as having "pushed in". People don't like people who "cut in line".

He's still a cock, and didn't need to get all bent out of shape; but I can understand why people with short fuses get pissy in this situation.

(Understand the "enemy").


Also, passing on the flush medium is illegal. So he'd have a case.

[cheshirecat]

Oh I understand it...AND I still think he's a cock.

BUT the point from my perspective was that he chose to ride up on my inside well AFTER I had pulled into the lane and proceeded to do so over a hundred meters or so...also had he not wanted anyone to pull in perhaps he shouldn't have sat stopped still over a car length back in stopped traffic from the guy in front.

Re the flush median, I thought it was legal in stopped traffic to use the flush median....either way surely HIS driving up on my left is also not 'legal' right? meh, whatever we shall see I guess

Had a woman try that going onto the tunnel and explained what she was doing was tantamount to dangerous driving, ie coming up on the inside after being me clear ahead intending to block out. She got a bit confused with that concept. In the UK there was/is a driving law you can't take the law into your own hands, ie block faster moving traffic in the outside lane even though you are on the max speed limit. NZ interpretation seems a bit vague at times - maybe one of our legal eagles could see if this is true here.

[Ocean1]

Had a woman try that going onto the tunnel and explained what she was doing was tantamount to dangerous driving, ie coming up on the inside after being me clear ahead intending to block out. She got a bit confused with that concept. In the UK there was/is a driving law you can't take the law into your own hands, ie block faster moving traffic in the outside lane even though you are on the max speed limit. NZ interpretation seems a bit vague at times - maybe one of our legal eagles could see if this is true here.

:hitcher: Legally they're complete arseholes. The more you abuse them the better place the world becomes for us more reasonable, calm and peace loving sorts, fill yer boots.

[Gremlin]

Overtaking on a flush median is not legal, and isn't a lane.

[EmBe]

I think drivers get all in a tizzy, pissed off and try blocking riders out because they don't realise we're legally allowed to lane share in stationary/slow moving traffic they just think its a sneaky move to cheat traffic queues. Educated drivers see riders lane sharing and think 'lucky bugger wish I was on 2 wheels'

*1st post, don't hate me :done: *

[rastuscat]

I have lived near the college for 6 years and that is the first time I have seen more than 2 at once.

I've been riding from Chateau Papakowhai since 2006 with groups as large as 11.

When we do recertifications we do cone days on the runway at Ohakea and day long road rides. It's slow speed handling around the cones and group formation riding on the open road.

Tues there were 4 bikes leaving the college, Thurs there were 5. Just because you didnt see them doesnt mean they didn't exist.

Didn't recertify in splitting or filtering though.

[mrchips]

I still think he's a cock

Sounds like you interrupted his texting session.

[Swoop]

... then he headed off to go up Ngaio gorge and as he went past was yelling and waving his phone at me again...COCK

I think you have the wrong end of the stick. Mangina man was not yelling, but merely "yahooing" and celebrating. The waving of the phone was because he had just passed another level of Grumpybirds. That is quite a challenge when you have to use your knees to control the steering wheel while totally concentrating on the game.

Smartphones. Not just for when at work, but for the commute as well!

[MarkH]

Re the flush median, I thought it was legal in stopped traffic to use the flush median....either way surely HIS driving up on my left is also not 'legal' right? meh, whatever we shall see I guess

You can use the flush median to turn right from, but there is a restriction on how far you are allowed to drive along it.
You can also use the flush median to come in from the right so that you don't need traffic clear in both directions at the same time.
But the law specifically says you may NOT use the flush median as an overtaking lane.

[grubbytech]

I've ridden in a lot of countries & I absolutely hate not being able to split the traffic. I think I'm right in saying that California is the only state that you're allowed to do it in & Trust me being stuck in a jam in Chicago absolutely sucks.
Whatever you do don't let safety freaks take the right to be part of the solution for traffic congestion away from you.

[Clockwork]

You can use the flush median to turn right from, but there is a restriction on how far you are allowed to drive along it.
You can also use the flush median to come in from the right so that you don't need traffic clear in both directions at the same time.
But the law specifically says you may NOT use the flush median as an overtaking lane.

But can you cross the flush median to pass in the opposing lane (always assuming there is 100m clear road throughout the manoeuvre) then cross it again back into your own lane or does the flush median become a defacto yellow (no-cross) line?

[carbonhed]

But can you cross the flush median to pass in the opposing lane (always assuming there is 100m clear road throughout the manoeuvre) then cross it again back into your own lane or does the flush median become a defacto yellow (no-cross) line?

:laugh: Never thought of that but suspect the answer's "Oh fuck no!".

[Paul in NZ]

Not flash is it? I'd normally say toughen up and learn to ride slow, but there's plenty that can't, including most novices, and the left at the bottom of the hill got wrong sees you in real danger from the southbound lot.

All because the villiage didn't rate an overpass.

Shit yes because if there is a LOT of traffic heading south you just can't ride slow enough and you need to stop. Try doing that 2 up on a whale like the ST... Jesus mary wept its scary and had me so out of shape I could barely stay in my lane when I could make the turn..

[yevjenko]

A friend had one late last year and it is honestly the only time I've heard of a bike being written off after a lanesplitting incident.

yet if you don't do it in Blighty on your test, they'll fail you for "not making progress"...

[MarkH]

To put things in perspective, a friend of mine just wrote off his bike lanesplitting. Car changed lane, he swerved and ran into the back of another car at speed. He's off work on ACC. Funny thing about KB is that you never hear about lanesplitting failures with people only ready to admit their successes.

I'm afraid that anecdote really means nothing.
Someone got injured while lane splitting, someone else got injured while not lane splitting - neither incident shows which is safer.

I've been in a car and when I slowed down because the traffic in front of me slowed down, I got rear ended.
If I'd been on a bike and split between the lanes ahead of me then I would not have been in an accident.


I think drivers get all in a tizzy, pissed off and try blocking riders out because they don't realise we're legally allowed to lane share in stationary/slow moving traffic they just think its a sneaky move to cheat traffic queues. Educated drivers see riders lane sharing and think 'lucky bugger wish I was on 2 wheels'

I did that, stuck in Auckland traffic and thinking "this stupid four wheeled vehicle sucks!" and "I should get back into riding and enjoy moving through traffic like those riders".
After 3 years of commuting in Auckland on a bike I don't really want to buy another car, bikes are just more fun.
Now I'm not even commuting in a city and I'm still glad to be riding, all seasons and all weather I'm happy to be on a bike!

[yevjenko]

I was filtering(?) on Friday once I hit the queue at the end of the SW where the on ramp lights at Manukau are. Saw something funny up ahead (drivers door quickly open then shut, but not all the way) got closer (I don't split very fast) then he flung his door wide open, I stopped with heaps of room to spare and asked him what he was doing. He just yelled at me to wait my turn! What a dork. I just went around him and sped off towards the lights and got too excited, let the clutch out too quick, did a MINI wheelie then sped off, lol.

Love it! you should have said "I pay a lot of money to ACC to be able do this!"

[bounce]

Well here's the update; I wrote in a letter contesting my lane split fine, and they rejected the request for reconsideration via post this afternoon. The shame is that I got done again by the same cop sitting on the flyover at bottom of the gorge this morning, where the road is at it's widest. :brick: Traffic was near stopped, so just toddling through at walking pace past the cars.. And yup, same result. Cant reason with the guy, he is utterly convinced it is for our own safety. Despite my having been hit 4 times by cars behind me not stopping when I do..

Ah well - looks like he will be lurking on SH1 in peak hour for the long term, pulling bikes over, snarling up the traffic, making more bikes lane split, which creates more customers for infringements!
... all we can hope is that he becomes employee of the month and they put him onto some real work. I doubt it though.. THis is waay profitable. Probably another 20 bikes split past while he was writing me mine, so many more fish in the sea.

Nothing else can be done huh.

A 30 minute crawl slipping 1st gear isn't my idea of fun though :rolleyes: so guess I'll start taking the car and add to the traffic jam.

[swbarnett]

Well here's the update; I wrote in a letter contesting my lane split fine, and they rejected the request for reconsideration via post this afternoon.
Don't give up yet. I got off a ticket for using the 'B' traffic light on the bus lane (before it was legal) by persisting through three letters. Write back and tell them how appalled you are that they would enforce a law that will put riders in danger. And tell them why in detail. If enough riders do this they may even rethink the crap they're spouting.

[Reckless]

I think in the first instance your letter goes to the officer who issued the ticket.
I called in about one I wrote and she said it was with the officer who wrote it?
Could be wrong others here may know the system better?
So they didn't reject it he did. He will know the system and I'd bet the strike rate goes up to 99% once the first letter is rejected?

Take it further for all of us :) if we can no longer lane split through near stationary traffic not much use in riding IMHO :(

[MD]

I think in the first instance your letter goes to the officer who issued the ticket.
I called in about one I wrote and she said it was with the officer who wrote it?
Could be wrong others here may know the system better?
So they didn't reflect it he did. He will know the system and I'd bet the strike rate goes up to 99% once the first letter is rejected?

Take it further for all of us :) if we can no longer lane split through near stationary traffic not much use in riding IMHO :(

Yip. Totally defeats the point of using a bike.
I was too scared to ride in today after talking to Bounce, so I contributed to the congestion.
Bounce is a courteous lane splitter and doesn't do it at speed.

Unfortunately today I witnessed two of our brothers piss me off and give us all a bad name - not that it's good in the first place in the public's eye.

A yellow car a bit ahead of me in far right lane starts indicating he wants to move left to middle lane. Plenty of advance indication and he had a gap to go. Two bikes splitting up behind him MUST have seen his indication but just aimed at him so he had to take evasive swerve back to his right to avoid impact with first bike. Second bike close behind MUST have seen this but does he hold back and be polite. No, he aims for this car as it starts to move left, again the poor driver had to sweve back a second time.

What were you two Riders thinking? Your bike could shunt him out of your way? He was in the right, he could have not taken evasive action and guess who would have been hurt AND in the wrong. I felt like following the driver to apologise for these two ignorant riders and thank him for sparing their bodies from certain self inflicted injury. Common road courtesy goes a long way people. If I see a car ahead indicate a lane change when I'm splitting I slow, hold my position or pull into lane and if I can give the driver a wave to proceed. This rude behaviour I saw is just what this prick of a cop wants to justify his personal hate campaign against bikes.

[yevjenko]

(lots of stuff)

Couldn't agree more, with pretty much everything you said.

if people split like that overseas they will get themselves killed. no doubt

[Kendoll]

That really sucks to hear! :brick: What I've found with police (the really unreasonable ones at least) is that what it comes down to is your word against theirs, and there's nothing you can damn well do about it. This guy sounds like one of the unreasonable ones, damnit!

Thanks for at least making others aware of it on here though...

[swbarnett]

not that it's good in the first place in the public's eye.
Not on Auckland's southern motorway if the number of people that make way for me is anything to go by.


A yellow car a bit ahead of me in far right lane starts indicating he wants to move left to middle lane. Plenty of advance indication and he had a gap to go. Two bikes splitting up behind him MUST have seen his indication but just aimed at him so he had to take evasive swerve back to his right to avoid impact with first bike. Second bike close behind MUST have seen this but does he hold back and be polite. No, he aims for this car as it starts to move left, again the poor driver had to sweve back a second time.

What were you two Riders thinking?
Yeah, this is stupid and self defeating.


Your bike could shunt him out of your way?
Well... If they hit them fast enough. Wouldn't like to give odds for their survival though.

[bounce]

Common road courtesy goes a long way people. If I see a car ahead indicate a lane change when I'm splitting I slow, hold my position or pull into lane and if I can give the driver a wave to proceed. This rude behaviour I saw is just what this prick of a cop wants to justify his personal hate campaign against bikes.

pretty much MD. I was thinking that for years. that it would be the guys that use the morning commute to get their thrills that screw it for everyone. weaving through at speed, pulling in on cars, tailgating, tooting at cars who don't make room.. no wonder enough motorists got annoyed enough to complain. and yup, this guy will probably hand out the $150's until nobody does it anymore.. makes you weep to think of how much money he is going to take off motorcyclists.. but yeah he loves it eh, absolutely can't reason with him. 100% strike rate, he will give you the ticket and enjoy telling you off about it too.

The ONLY positive is that he did concede that splitting stopped traffic was not an offence. Only catch is that the cars likely won't give you a gap once they start moving again.

[MarkH]

A yellow car a bit ahead of me in far right lane starts indicating he wants to move left to middle lane. Plenty of advance indication and he had a gap to go. Two bikes splitting up behind him MUST have seen his indication but just aimed at him so he had to take evasive swerve back to his right to avoid impact with first bike. Second bike close behind MUST have seen this but does he hold back and be polite. No, he aims for this car as it starts to move left, again the poor driver had to sweve back a second time.

Common sense & a sense of self preservation says to slow down and let the indicating car complete his manoeuvre and then resume passing traffic.
What the hell were these morons thinking? :oi-grr::crazy::facepalm:
Riding in heavy traffic while lacking a sense of self preservation, haven't we read about enough riders being killed already? :weird:

[rainman]

Common sense & a sense of self preservation says to slow down and let the indicating car complete his manoeuvre and then resume passing traffic.

Agree entirely, if the car ahead has the decency to indicate, I'll stop if necessary and let them go through, even give them a thumbs up maybe as encouragement to keep doing it.

[yevjenko]

Agree entirely, if the car ahead has the decency to indicate, I'll stop if necessary and let them go through, even give them a thumbs up maybe as encouragement to keep doing it.

Nice. If only more bikers were like this

sent from my phone (so scuze auto correct typos)

[rustyblade]

Nice. If only more bikers were like this

sent from my phone (so scuze auto correct typos)

On Auckland's highway 16 (represent!) I'm usually in the "fast" group of bikes splitting, I always keep in mind that yes, I pay acc, I know my bike but cars pack the motorway. Most people are on phones, are angry and just want to get home yet some arse on a big shiny fast bike goes zooming past them who's going to get home a load quicker. That's gonna anger a lot of people so half of my splitting is thumbs ups, nods, "cheers bro" and all the rest. Sure sometimes I split at lethal speeds but the police don't seem to mind.

Worst offenders are the unstable bikes wobbling about umming about a gap twice the size of their ride and stopping dead not realising they've built up a queue of bikes behind them.
Respect to the psycho on the speed triple and the nutcase on the purple and red cbr600f3 the other day, following in their wake was immense!

[NNN]

stopping dead not realising they've built up a queue of bikes behind them.

Ha ha I am with you man! If you are lane splitting, it is better you be mindful of the bike behind you..

[trustme]

Sure sometimes I split at lethal speeds but the police don't seem to mind.

Don't bet on it , every so often they have a purge on splitters on the Nth Western.

[rustyblade]

Don't bet on it , every so often they have a purge on splitters on the Nth Western.

erk! well, got away with it so far.
Didn't see anyone on the nw this morning (7:30-7:50am ish...), where were you all?!

[Krayy]

erk! well, got away with it so far.
Didn't see anyone on the nw this morning (7:30-7:50am ish...), where were you all?!

In bed...I run down there at ~8:30 and only have to split once I get onto the port exit road to go off at Grafton. Now going home, that's another story. Splitting all the way from the on ramp to Western Springs, sometimes passing Mr Plod, although I do move over to the lane furthest away before I do.

[rustyblade]

In bed...I run down there at ~8:30 and only have to split once I get onto the port exit road to go off at Grafton.

My jealousy grows...

[Swoop]

On Auckland's highway 16 (represent!) I'm usually in the "fast" group of bikes splitting, I always keep in mind that yes, I pay acc, I know my bike but cars pack the motorway. Most people are on phones, are angry and just want to get home yet some arse on a big shiny fast bike goes zooming past them who's going to get home a load quicker. That's gonna anger a lot of people so half of my splitting is thumbs ups, nods, "cheers bro" and all the rest.
With the current lane width reduction it is better to slow down just a tad. I've noticed some seriously good drivers who pull over a little to make room (do that myself if caging) but the majority are still oblivious.
The other evening I realised that Harleys have their own lane on the left. The bus lane.
Quite entertaining watching an hd attempting to split, LOTS of revving of motor to get between cars, delays, refusing to pull into a lane and let the built up line of bikes get through... then swerve left into their bus lane.