Bikers on the Rimutaka Hill

[Rhys]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9627210/Bikers-slam-aggressive-hill-drivers

interesting article



"The agency was also looking at a speed-limit reduction for the hill."
What is it about always lowering the speed limit ?


"The Automobile Association said Bronz was right to denounce car drivers cutting corners on the hill."
I have never seen any one have a head on crash when the drivers are on the correct side of the road, I wish they would look at bad driving, crossing double yellow lines, holding up traffic, speeding up on passing lanes instead of always pointing the finger at speed

[James Deuce]

"The Automobile Association said Bronz was right to denounce car drivers cutting corners on the hill."
I have never seen any one have a head on crash when the drivers are on the correct side of the road,

Same goes for riders. If the traffic is heavy and the weather good, there will be a morotcyclists making daft overtakes on the wrong side of the road on the approach to blind corners. It's a given.

It's also nerve wracking. I don't want to have a head-on with a motorcyclist in any event, but especially when I'm in the car because I'll probably have to live with the aftermath of hurting or killing someone I'm seperated from by only one-degree.

I have no sympathy for motorcyclists in this instance. You've all (me too) shit in your own nest on the Rimutakas far too often.

[Ocean1]

I rode over the hill soon after the application of all that yellow paint on the feathers side. There can't have been more than a few metres of unmolested paint on the whole descent, there was yellow from arsehole to breakfast where cars had driven over it.

Which sorta demonstrates how effective they are at preventing the likelihood of head-ons. Probably better to have left well enough alone.


I have no sympathy for motorcyclists in this instance. You've all (me too) shit in your own nest on the Rimutakas far too often.

And yes bikers behave badly over there, but most non-riders would consider both my weekly pootle and your commute ride as bad behaviour, and report it accordingly.

[James Deuce]

And yes bikers behave badly over there, but most non-riders would consider both my weekly pootle and your commute ride as bad behaviour, and report it accordingly.

Most of the commuting car drivers travel at velocities I don't try to attempt. They can be truly insane. I tend to travel with the traffic flow as it's 80-100 km/hr (+/-20km/hr) usually and I don't have any strong desire to win the race to work. Commuting times are a very different proposition to the evening weekday rides and weekend riding habits. The only commuting "issues" are the logging trucks and they are brilliant at getting out of the way without really slowing down. They ain't the logging trucks of yore either, maintaining average speeds higher than most weekend car drivers would ever attempt.

I'm not talking about making progress like you and I like to do. I'm talking balls to the wall overtakes past a line of traffic into a blind corner with your upper body occupying half the opposing lane. I hate driving over the hill on the weekend if the weather's good because you will meet at least one person on a bike doing that. I take that into account and drive with that in mind. Most people wouldn't.

BRONZ are not arguing from a position of power, especially when they try to inflate the dangers of barrier impacts that don't happen and reporting anecdotal near misses. If I reported every person crossing the centre line on the Rimutakas, every car driver who blocks an overtaking lane by driving along the dashed line separating the two lanes, every angry geriatric who brake tests me, every menopausal woman driving at 20 km/hr while vomiting out the window of their Qashqai, I'd never get from A to B. I think bikers need to be very careful about ratting out other road users.

[Dogboy900]

Over the 20 odd years I have been riding over the hill for weekend fun I have had a few close encounters with cars or trucks encroaching into my lane. I have also had cars swerve out at me while being overtaken. But by the same token I have witnessed some truly awful and downright obnoxious and dangerous riding by motorcyclists up there.
I am sure some drivers may consider my riding dangerous up on the hill, but I always try to be safe and courteous while riding.

I can understand non riders thinking bikes are dangerous up there. People from work always tell me about how they were overtaken on double yellows by a bike that came out of nowhere!
One who is a bit of a hoon himself *555'd a bike that he reckoned was totally out of order causing cars to swerve or brake to miss hitting him.

It only takes one or two bad experiences for car drivers to tar us all with the same brush!

[caspernz]

Behaviour on the Rimutaka Hill is dodgy across the spectrum of road users. Bikers seem to be rather risk tolerant, if my personal experiences by bike/car/truck over the last ten years are anything to go by.

Brings to mind the old saying about people in glass houses not throwing stones...

Still, double yellow lines all the way across don't help. Enough places to overtake on a bike, safely. Now it's either put up with the tailgating cager or overtake on a double yellow line.

[cxy]

Behaviour on the Rimutaka Hill is dodgy across the spectrum of road users. Bikers seem to be rather risk tolerant, if my personal experiences by bike/car/truck over the last ten years are anything to go by.

Brings to mind the old saying about people in glass houses not throwing stones...

Still, double yellow lines all the way across don't help. Enough places to overtake on a bike, safely. Now it's either put up with the tailgating cager or overtake on a double yellow line.

Muppet bikers blaming other road users for bad behaviour......what a joke!
The recent fatility was entirely predictable

[caspernz]

I reckon BRONZ are proactive in general. Blaming other road users might be counter productive in this case though.

But hey, apart from improving my own behaviour by my own choice, does anyone have a magic solution to make dodgy riders see the error of their ways? I sure as heck don't....

[jellywrestler]

As far as bike riders go it is the group riders i feel are the most dangerous as the leader of the group will do an overtake pressuring all the followers to overtake to keep up with them. what are these guys on a double dare or something; or is it who gets to the pub lasts has to shout?
so if there's no leader then there's no problem then?

[GingerMidget]

Muppet bikers blaming other road users for bad behaviour......what a joke!
The recent fatility was entirely predictable

As someone who knew the deceased, I find your comment very rude. You weren't there, nor I doubt have ever met him.
He was a friend of my parents, and I dealt with him through work as well.

That road is dangerous for all who use it, because of a minority group who treat it like a race track.

The last time I rode over there, I had an idiot on a gsxr1000 come screaming up the road behind me, only to haul up and narrowly avoid hitting me. I was doing near on 100kph at the time, so god knows what he was doing. Proceeded to take off at the first vaguely safe (aka double yellows tiny gap) he could find.
I no longer ride over there unless I really have to.

[James Deuce]

As someone who knew the deceased, I find your comment very rude. You weren't there, nor I doubt have ever met him.
He was a friend of my parents, and I dealt with him through work as well.

That road is dangerous for all who use it, because of a minority group who treat it like a race track.

The last time I rode over there, I had an idiot on a gsxr1000 come screaming up the road behind me, only to haul up and narrowly avoid hitting me. I was doing near on 100kph at the time, so god knows what he was doing. Proceeded to take off at the first vaguely safe (aka double yellows tiny gap) he could find.
I no longer ride over there unless I really have to.

Here we go...

[Crasherfromwayback]

The recent fatility was entirely predictable


That road is dangerous for all who use it, because of a minority group who treat it like a race track.

.

I'm gonna put my head on the chopping block with this one. I knew the poor chap that tragically lost his life. Not well by any stretch of the imagination...but I knew him. I also know a lot of the people he was riding with. I know a lot of riders funnily enough. But a 1000cc superbike ridden in anger is a formidable weapon best suited for a race track. There's a very good reason why I don't do such *group* rides or ride superbikes in anger on the street. My best wishes and condolences go out to the friends and family of the latest loss to motorcycling (many of whom I call friends), I mean no disrespect to him (RIP) or them...but it's time to reign it in guys. And I say guys cause it generally ain't the chicks.

[Smifffy]

BRONZ are saying that the statements made in the media are NOT the BRONZ party line on the matter, and that the statements were misattributed to their organisation.

[Str8 Jacket]

At the end of the day what does it matter? Some people will not be affected by the recent death, some will. Some riders will pull their heads in (even if it's for a V short time) and some riders won't. What is a certain is that no matter what, the general public do not like us and are intimidated in some form by "fast riders" or riders that ride like twats and whatever any governing authority says for or against the bikers will not please everyone. The other certain is, as others have eluded too that some riders have ruined it for the rest.
People will keep killing themselves on motorcycles and we will keep losing friends, shit happens but not one of us can stop someone from making a fatal mistake. What we can do is try and be a little more sensible cause it sucks losing mates.

[MD]

Oh dear. More attention we don't want.

It amazes me how good some truck drivers are on the hill actually. I find most do their best to keep a long behemoth on their side of the road and pull over when they can to let traffic pass. It's silly to expect them to be able to always stay on their side of the centreline on the tight corners. It's even sillier for riders to not be prepared for this. Allow for it. Not that hard really.

What does puzzle me is the worldwide design flaw with SUVs and 4WDs that seem to experience temporary steering failures whenever entering a bend? I feel sorry for these drivers being forced to cut ever corner they attempt. Imagine owning a vehicle that's near impossible to follow the curve of a road.

As for bikes that cut corners I can't comprehend that at all. Cornering is the reason most of us ride! Why would you try and avoid the very pleasure you are pursuing?

I applaud the times the Police have targeted people cutting corners on the hill.

[Katman]

People will keep killing themselves on motorcycles and we will keep losing friends, shit happens but not one of us can stop someone from making a fatal mistake. What we can do is try and be a little more sensible cause it sucks losing mates.

For far too long irresponsible motorcycling has been openly glorified by a large number of motorcyclists - with a considerably smaller number showing their displeasure with little more than a 'tsk, tsk' or a reproving shake of the head.

Treating public roads as racetracks needs to receive the same sort of condemnation that drink driving does these days.

Only then are we likely to see the idiots start pulling their heads in.

[danchop]

why do men want to go for rides on thier bikes on such windy roads?
this is what my 9 year old son asked me in the car on the weekend while going to piha and seeing a lot of bikes out.
because we live in a pc world full of safety i declined to answer him with the truth

[Smifffy]

why do men want to go for rides on thier bikes on such windy roads?
this is what my 9 year old son asked me in the car on the weekend while going to piha and seeing a lot of bikes out.
because we live in a pc world full of safety i declined to answer him with the truth

Possibly because at 9 yo it's all about straight line top speed?

[cxy]

As someone who knew the deceased, I find your comment very rude. You weren't there, nor I doubt have ever met him.
He was a friend of my parents, and I dealt with him through work as well.

That road is dangerous for all who use it, because of a minority group who treat it like a race track.

The last time I rode over there, I had an idiot on a gsxr1000 come screaming up the road behind me, only to haul up and narrowly avoid hitting me. I was doing near on 100kph at the time, so god knows what he was doing. Proceeded to take off at the first vaguely safe (aka double yellows tiny gap) he could find.
I no longer ride over there unless I really have to.

Yes, I did know Andreas
Sadly that does not colour my view of manic group rides.

[FJRider]

The recent fatility was entirely predictable

You want predictable ... I predict more motorcyclists will die on the roads in NZ this year ... probably even ... more will die on the Rimataka hill ... :brick:

If there's any sort of collision/accident involving a motorcycle ... it's always going to be the motorcyclist who's most seriously hurt ... :oi-grr:

It doesn't always happen to "Somebody else" ... it could be you next. One small error of judgement is all it takes ... (and it may not even be due to your error) ;)

And it could be on ANY road ... ANYWHERE ... :calm:

[FJRider]

Treating public roads as racetracks needs to receive the same sort of condemnation that drink driving does these days.

Only then are we likely to see the idiots start pulling their heads in.

Considering the large number of "Idiots" still drinking and driving (and getting caught) ... the "Pulling in of heads" (of either) is still quite some way ahead ... :shifty:

[danchop]

You want predictable ... I predict more motorcyclists will die on the roads in NZ this year ... probably even ... more will die on the Rimataka hill ... :brick:

If there's any sort of collision/accident involving a motorcycle ... it's always going to be the motorcyclist who's most seriously hurt ... :oi-grr:

It doesn't always happen to "Somebody else" ... it could be you next. One small error of judgement is all it takes ... (and it may not even be due to your error) ;)

And it could be on ANY road ... ANYWHERE ... :calm:
its not the same saying "they died doing something they loved" when they were riding 104kmph with a high vis vest is it?

[James Deuce]

its not the same saying "they died doing something they loved" when they were riding 104kmph with a high vis vest is it?

Something about that phrase has always struck me as odd. Creepy. Devoid of reason and those who utter it lacking in critical thought.

The point of doing something you love isn't to die. Dying doing it is ineffably sad.


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[Ocean1]

The point of doing something you love isn't to die.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0O1v_7T6p8U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and10stuff

[FJRider]

its not the same saying "they died doing something they loved" when they were riding 104kmph with a high vis vest is it?

Would .... "they died because they fucked up" .. sound any better ... ???

Keeping to posted speed limits ... and the wearing high vis vests wont prevent accidents (and fuck ups) happening ...

Deaths on the Rimataka's ... can often occur at less than the open road speed limit.

There seems to be many that are very happy riding at 104 Km/hr and wearing a high vis vest .... so why do you suggest it would be wrong to say it .. ??? :confused:

[FJRider]

Something about that phrase has always struck me as odd. Creepy. Devoid of reason and those who utter it lacking in critical thought.

The point of doing something you love isn't to die. Dying doing it is ineffably sad.


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Would dieing doing something you hate ... be any less sad ... ??? :innocent:

[Kickaha]

Dying doing it is ineffably sad.
I can tell you from personal experience It's pretty fucking sad standing beside someone while they're dying from doing something they love and their partner pleads with them not to

From that day on I thought It's a fucking shit term to use

[James Deuce]

Would dieing doing something you hate ... be any less sad ... ??? :innocent:

Yes. Mostly because the chances of that happening, given my history, are very, very high. It's liable to be something I really fucking hate. Like choking on a Marmite sandwich.

[FJRider]

Yes. Mostly because the chances of that happening, given my history, are very, very high. It's liable to be something I really fucking hate. Like choking on a Marmite sandwich.

If you die choking on a Marmite sandwich ... I wont cry for you then .... :2thumbsup

[James Deuce]

Good man. Raise a pint and chant, "The Fucker deserved it!"


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[ducatilover]

I don't see the appeal of riding fast over a crowded road. Some of you fullas are strange.
Plenty of grouse roads down that way you can enjoy, get a flow on and all that rubbish, without going splat on a car.

Or have a tug, works for me, only two of my three bikes work, so more tug time.

edit: one of three. I lie, it'll be red raw next week

[TheDemonLord]

It amazes me how good some truck drivers are on the hill actually. I find most do their best to keep a long behemoth on their side of the road and pull over when they can to let traffic pass. It's silly to expect them to be able to always stay on their side of the centreline on the tight corners. It's even sillier for riders to not be prepared for this. Allow for it. Not that hard really.



This is an interesting comment - I agree that many truck drivers do indeed do their best to stay on their side of the road - but what if despite all the best efforts, they aren't?

To me at least, if a truck isn't able to safely navigate a stretch of road (and by safely I mean stay 100% on their side of the road 100% of the time), then they should not be allowed to drive it - I say this without predjudice to the truck driver themselves, but if the road is such that they cannot stay on their side - then their vehicle is not safe to drive on that peice of road.

[Paul in NZ]

I can tell you from personal experience It's pretty fucking sad standing beside someone while they're dying from doing something they love and their partner pleads with them not to

From that day on I thought It's a fucking shit term to use

Damn straight... Its usually no consolation at all and mostly (from close observation) dying from motorcycling is fairly painful and bloody sobering for others. I really like motorcycles but most of all I LOVE being alive so I can enjoy motorcycles a bit more... Its vital to keep your priorities straight...

[Paul in NZ]

At the end of the day what does it matter? Some people will not be affected by the recent death, some will. Some riders will pull their heads in (even if it's for a V short time) and some riders won't. What is a certain is that no matter what, the general public do not like us and are intimidated in some form by "fast riders" or riders that ride like twats and whatever any governing authority says for or against the bikers will not please everyone. The other certain is, as others have eluded too that some riders have ruined it for the rest.
People will keep killing themselves on motorcycles and we will keep losing friends, shit happens but not one of us can stop someone from making a fatal mistake. What we can do is try and be a little more sensible cause it sucks losing mates.

Great post....

[SMOKEU]

This sounds exactly like the Akaroa hill.

[blackdog]

This is an interesting comment - I agree that many truck drivers do indeed do their best to stay on their side of the road - but what if despite all the best efforts, they aren't?

To me at least, if a truck isn't able to safely navigate a stretch of road (and by safely I mean stay 100% on their side of the road 100% of the time), then they should not be allowed to drive it - I say this without predjudice to the truck driver themselves, but if the road is such that they cannot stay on their side - then their vehicle is not safe to drive on that peice of road.

You didn't really think that out did ya.

How are you going to live without bread and milk, or anything else for that matter. Because what you propose is completely untenable.

[jellywrestler]

To me at least, if a truck isn't able to safely navigate a stretch of road (and by safely I mean stay 100% on their side of the road 100% of the time), then they should not be allowed to drive it - problem solved
apply that logic to motorcyclists on the hill and we'll be down to about 5 % left.

[TheDemonLord]

You didn't really think that out did ya.

How are you going to live without bread and milk, or anything else for that matter. Because what you propose is completely untenable.

Didn't I?

If certain roads were closed to trucks - they would simply find an alternative route (with the increased cost of Haulage passed on to the consumer)

Then we would most likely see intense lobbying from the Haulage sector to change/improve/re-route certain roads so that they are now safe for Trucks

OR

industries would find alternatives (like Rail, Barge, Sea, Air) to deliver our goods.

[James Deuce]

Rail. Lol. Sea. Lol. The two great things about trucking in NZ is that stuff gets from one end of the country to the other overnight and very seldom goes missing. In the bad old days, businesses used to factor in up to 40% stock losses in shipping in some sectors because of the criminal activities in ports and railyards. It may not happen in future if those industries start carrying their weight again, but it will need a couple of generations of Kiwis to die before anyone puts any commercial trust in them.

Trucking has been very good for NZ's economy.

[fridayflash]

i wouldnt say id like to see the return days of govt regulation but id like to see more freight back on the rails where it used to be...it takes me longer to drive from napier to auck, or napier to wgtn nowaday than it did 20 years ago, despite improved roads. and that is mostly due to road freight

[rebel]

This is an interesting comment - I agree that many truck drivers do indeed do their best to stay on their side of the road - but what if despite all the best efforts, they aren't?

To me at least, if a truck isn't able to safely navigate a stretch of road (and by safely I mean stay 100% on their side of the road 100% of the time), then they should not be allowed to drive it - I say this without predjudice to the truck driver themselves, but if the road is such that they cannot stay on their side - then their vehicle is not safe to drive on that peice of road.

Fair call I suppose, but this is SH2 FFS. Fact is that semis and truck & trailer have to swing their front wheel over the line on the Wairarapa side on a few left hand corners. Still, for every truck doing this, there would be 10 cars (unnecessarily) crossing the centre line on right hand corners. Transit or the police could have several signs along the hill telling motorists to keep left/stop cutting corners, maybe warning other road users (cars) to be weary of bikes and trucks, but they just don't make that sort of coin like 5 k over the limit. Which exposes the crock of shit their whole safety campaign is.

As an ex truck driver some stand out roads I used to haul on were Whangamata to Waihi, Tairua to Whitianga, Arthurs Pass, and several dozen narrow bridges the length of the country. Whats the alternative... ship their shit to them on a daily basis, use 3 12 metre rigid trucks instead of one 22m semi... Not gonna happen.

[TheDemonLord]

Rail. Lol. Sea. Lol. The two great things about trucking in NZ is that stuff gets from one end of the country to the other overnight and very seldom goes missing. In the bad old days, businesses used to factor in up to 40% stock losses in shipping in some sectors because of the criminal activities in ports and railyards. It may not happen in future if those industries start carrying their weight again, but it will need a couple of generations of Kiwis to die before anyone puts any commercial trust in them.

Trucking has been very good for NZ's economy.

I agree with your sentiments - but if Trucking wasn't an option, the economy would compensate by finding other methods. The stock loss aspect - well that is a different issue entirely, one for the Police and better workplace security/policy/scrutiny

I don't disagree that Trucking is good - but compare ourselves to our European friends, where Sea and Rail is used for the aerterial transport and trucks generally used for the last part of the journey and also compare that where there is long distance trucking, it is generally over 2-3 lane concrete motorways.

- As for government regulation - I am in general vehemently against this, (economically speaking it tends to cause more problems than it solves) the solution here would be to make Rail a competetive option in order to encourage companies to send more freight by Rail

[fridayflash]

the main problem being the cost of overhaul of tracks and facilities etc to cope with the increased rail load, more rolling stock, workshops, staff etc etc
lets face it, itll never happen again

[James Deuce]

the main problem being the cost of overhaul of tracks and facilities etc to cope with the increased rail load, more rolling stock, workshops, staff etc etc
lets face it, itll never happen again

Especially with our toy train gauge.

[James Deuce]

I agree with your sentiments - but if Trucking wasn't an option, the economy would compensate by finding other methods. The stock loss aspect - well that is a different issue entirely, one for the Police and better workplace security/policy/scrutiny

I don't disagree that Trucking is good - but compare ourselves to our European friends, where Sea and Rail is used for the aerterial transport and trucks generally used for the last part of the journey and also compare that where there is long distance trucking, it is generally over 2-3 lane concrete motorways.

- As for government regulation - I am in general vehemently against this, (economically speaking it tends to cause more problems than it solves) the solution here would be to make Rail a competetive option in order to encourage companies to send more freight by Rail

They're not "sentiments". Rail will never be competitive in NZ mostly because of poor choices in rail gauge which limits rolling stock availability. You can't compare us to Europe. Our population density is minuscule. The economies of scale needed to make a complete overhaul of our rail network don't exist. Our road network is phenomenal when that is taken into account. Our traffic density is also tiny. Compared to Europe we barely have road congestion.

[TheDemonLord]

Fair call I suppose, but this is SH2 FFS. Fact is that semis and truck & trailer have to swing their front wheel over the line on the Wairarapa side on a few left hand corners. Still, for every truck doing this, there would be 10 cars (unnecessarily) crossing the centre line on right hand corners. Transit or the police could have several signs along the hill telling motorists to keep left/stop cutting corners, maybe warning other road users (cars) to be weary of bikes and trucks, but they just don't make that sort of coin like 5 k over the limit. Which exposes the crock of shit their whole safety campaign is.

As an ex truck driver some stand out roads I used to haul on were Whangamata to Waihi, Tairua to Whitianga, Arthurs Pass, and several dozen narrow bridges the length of the country. Whats the alternative... ship their shit to them on a daily basis, use 3 12 metre rigid trucks instead of one 22m semi... Not gonna happen.

Oh, Don't get me wrong - the Car drivers that cut blind corners should be lined up against the wall and shot at dawn - and you are 120% right about the Police not focussing on other areas of Road safety because it is difficult to enforce/collect fines for.

I guess the comment about SH2 being one of the roads is really indicitive of NZs roading infrastructure (calling it Shit would be an understatement when compared to other western countries)

[TheDemonLord]

They're not "sentiments". Rail will never be competitive in NZ mostly because of poor choices in rail gauge which limits rolling stock availability. You can't compare us to Europe. Our population density is minuscule. The economies of scale needed to make a complete overhaul of our rail network don't exist. Our road network is phenomenal when that is taken into account. Our traffic density is also tiny. Compared to Europe we barely have road congestion.

Rail could be competitive - it would take a lot of investment, it would take a lot of Accountants and NIMBYs being executed, it would take someone who is involved in planning to think for 5 minutes about future proofing a solution instead of the pervasive kiwi 'She'll be right mate' attitude that seems to infect all of our major govern-mental projects, and it would take someone with Balls to stick their neck out for the advancement of NZ

Actually - you are right, that will never happen....

[buggerit]

Didn't I?

If certain roads were closed to trucks - they would simply find an alternative route (with the increased cost of Haulage passed on to the consumer)

Then we would most likely see intense lobbying from the Haulage sector to change/improve/re-route certain roads so that they are now safe for Trucks

OR

industries would find alternatives (like Rail, Barge, Sea, Air) to deliver our goods.

More likely we would have 2 yrs of road works and end up with a boring bit of road

[caspernz]

This is an interesting comment - I agree that many truck drivers do indeed do their best to stay on their side of the road - but what if despite all the best efforts, they aren't?

To me at least, if a truck isn't able to safely navigate a stretch of road (and by safely I mean stay 100% on their side of the road 100% of the time), then they should not be allowed to drive it - I say this without predjudice to the truck driver themselves, but if the road is such that they cannot stay on their side - then their vehicle is not safe to drive on that peice of road.

This is a very valid point. I know from personal experience some vehicle combinations can stay within the lines all the way over and back. Some combinations can't. The sheer ignorance of some trucking firms sending combinations over that need one and a half lanes to negotiate the tighter corners simply pisses me off...maybe a bit more enforcement would make operators lean towards using the right vehicle combo for the Rimutaka Hill?

The big but is that on a road with centreline markings the law states something along the lines of travelling at a speed that allows you to stop within the lane visible to you...

So in some cases two wrongs end up in a prang.

[Pickle]

As far as bike riders go it is the group riders i feel are the most dangerous as the leader of the group will do an overtake pressuring all the followers to overtake to keep up with them. In such a situation I am sure safety is a secondary consideration to keeping up with the leader.

How is it that the person in front is pressuring others to overtake??? Surely they can choose to overtake when they feel it is safe can they not decide that - if not then maybe they should think twice about being on the road ( Car or Bike), take some responsibility for their own actions - stop balming others into pressuring them

[Grubber]

This is a very valid point. I know from personal experience some vehicle combinations can stay within the lines all the way over and back. Some combinations can't. The sheer ignorance of some trucking firms sending combinations over that need one and a half lanes to negotiate the tighter corners simply pisses me off...maybe a bit more enforcement would make operators lean towards using the right vehicle combo for the Rimutaka Hill?

The big but is that on a road with centreline markings the law states something along the lines of travelling at a speed that allows you to stop within the lane visible to you...

So in some cases two wrongs end up in a prang.

I think we can all share the road quite well inmost cases.
I find it's usually when an arrogant car driver thinks hes entitled to anything and everything most times.
size of or type of unit has no bearing if we all just took some time to use roads accordingly with other users.

[Old Steve]

It wouldn't seem as if the claims that the Rimutakas is one of NZs most dangerous roads is supported by fact, or at least the facts as given in the original article. Or has the NZTA got it's nose up it's arse?

In responce to BRONZ's comments about road barriers, "NZTA's Wellington highways manager Rod James said neither of the two motorcyclist deaths on the Rimutaka Road in the past 10 years was a consequence of a rider striking roadside barriers".

Neither of the two motorcyclist deaths in the past 10 years? I remember driving over the Rimutakas years and years ago, and I remember feeling aprehensive then even on 4 wheels. NZTA's Mr Rod James has to have his figures wrong. Or did he mean that only two motorcyclist deaths in the past 10 years were due to a ride striking a roadside barrier? If so, two deaths are two too many.

[SPman]

Last time I rode over the Rimutakas, it was midweek, and there was barely a car or truck on the hill. It was so good, I went back to the top and came back down again......damn the torpedoes and enjoy myself....then I figured....banging down footpegs mid corner on a GSXR1000 without crossing the centre line was probably not a good idea....I must be travelling a tad to fast with crap cornering technique....and.......think about the children....so I sold the bike, moved country and got a nice safe electric pushbike....the roads in NZ must be safer all round........

[FJRider]

It wouldn't seem as if the claims that the Rimutakas is one of NZs most dangerous roads is supported by fact, or at least the facts as given in the original article. Or has the NZTA got it's nose up it's arse?

In responce to BRONZ's comments about road barriers, NZTA's Wellington highways manager Rod James said ... "neither of the two motorcyclist deaths on the Rimutaka Road in the past 10 years was a consequence of a rider striking roadside barriers".



"Dangerous" is not always death related. Injury accidents count as well ... and not ALL of those are reported/noticed in the papers (who has time to read them). Only deaths make the TV news ... :blank:

If the man said .... I guess that's what he meant ... :lol:

Hitting the road ... or another vehicle ... can cause death. With all the hate on WRB's ... how many bikers have actually died (Nationwide) from hitting them .. ??? :scratch:

True the resulting prospect of hitting them on (or after coming off) a motorcycle is not good. But a head on with a campervan is not recommended either ... :rolleyes:

[oneofsix]

In responce to BRONZ's comments about road barriers, "NZTA's Wellington highways manager Rod James said neither of the two motorcyclist deaths on the Rimutaka Road in the past 10 years was a consequence of a rider striking roadside barriers".


amusing in that I think BRONZ was commenting on the NEW barriers put in during the road reconstruction in the last year or so, the ones that have been raised in height to allow for SUV's (largest new car market), not so good for bikes or smaller convertibles like hairdresser/midlife crisis cars. So what does the last 10 years have to do with barriers installed in the last year or so? How come overseas prove isn't relevant when it comes to protecting bikers but can be used to promote hi-vis and WRBs etc? :crazy:

[Ocean1]

"Dangerous" is not always death related.

Yeahyeah, but Steve's got a point. A lot of carnage, no doubt to be labelled one of the nation's most dangerous roads. But just 2 bike fatalities? I can't remember hearing of more than that. Well, not for years.

Are the Rimutakas in fact a statistically safe bike road in spite of the rhetoric? Or am I missing sommat? Again.

[Ocean1]

How come overseas prove isn't relevant when it comes to protecting bikers but can be used to promote hi-vis and WRBs etc? :crazy:

Just 'cause. OK?

[oneofsix]

Just 'cause. OK?

you split the question. Where ix the just cause in using overseas in one case but not another?

[FJRider]

... How come overseas prove isn't relevant when it comes to protecting bikers but can be used to promote hi-vis and WRBs etc? :crazy:

Show me a Barrier that "Protects" bikers when they hit it ... ??? :beer:

The cause listed in a large number of Biker accidents is seemingly .. "Lost control in a bend" ... show me a "barrier" that will save his ass when that happens ... :wacko:

[FJRider]

Yeahyeah, but Steve's got a point. A lot of carnage, no doubt to be labelled one of the nation's most dangerous roads. But just 2 bike fatalities? I can't remember hearing of more than that. Well, not for years.

Are the Rimutakas in fact a statistically safe bike road in spite of the rhetoric? Or am I missing sommat? Again.

So ... if you don't die. Your result is with just a seriously mangled body ... it wasn't dangerous after all .. ??? :eek5:

[Ocean1]

So ... if you don't die. Your result is with just a seriously mangled body ... it wasn't dangerous after all .. ??? :eek5:

So how many seriously mangled bikers and how many seriously mangled drivers have there been?

Numbers or gtfo.

[FJRider]

So how many seriously mangled bikers and how many seriously mangled drivers have there been?

Numbers or gtfo.


It's your local road ... don't you read the Newspapers .. ???

How many accidents does it take to be justifiably labeled "Dangerous" .. ?? :whistle:

There's plenty of "Dangerous" roads here in the south with few deaths of motorcyclists ... Does NO (Motorcyclists) deaths mean they're SAFE after all .. ??????????? :lol:

[Ocean1]

How many accidents does it take to be justifiably labeled "Dangerous" .. ??

Fukd if I know, I'm not the one labelling it "Dangerous"


There's plenty of "Dangerous" roads here in the south with few deaths of motorcyclists ... Does NO (Motorcyclists) deaths mean they're SAFE after all .. ??????????? :lol:

Depends. Might mean it's safe only for motorcyclists. But given the propensity for roadside furniture to be remarkably unfriendly to motorcyclist I'd be surprised.

If you had numbers I could possibly elaborate. But you don't got numbers. In fact it looks like you don't even have an opinion...

Later.

[oneofsix]

Show me a Barrier that "Protects" bikers when they hit it ... ??? :beer:

The cause listed in a large number of Biker accidents is seemingly .. "Lost control in a bend" ... show me a "barrier" that will save his ass when that happens ... :wacko:

The problem with these barriers is that they are set up to make the off worse. There have been other threads that have shown you the barriers that lessen the damage to the biker. Some European and Aus stated have done a lot of research on this and one of the designs that does help is having a lower armco to prevent the rider smashing into the exposed legs of the raised barriers. The barriers in question have been raised to stop SUVs rolling over the top of them leaving more space for you to slide under them. As to losing control on the bend there can be many reasons for that and on this hill the wind tunnel that is the cutting is just one to add to the cage drivers that can't stay within their lane that put a rider of their line.

A barrier that will save a bikers ass? why the F would a biker have a half bred donkey or are you referring to an American gold prospector?
As to saving his arse, well you could try for a barrier that incorporates an air bag, but one that doesn't set out to maim him for the sake of an airbag equipped SUV would be a start.

[FJRider]

Fukd if I know, I'm not the one labelling it "Dangerous"



Depends. Might mean it's safe only for motorcyclists. But given the propensity for roadside furniture to be remarkably unfriendly to motorcyclist I'd be surprised.

If you had numbers I could possibly elaborate. But you don't got numbers. In fact it looks like you don't even have an opinion...

Later.

I rode the Rimataka's (Quite a few crossings on a Benelli 650 Tornado and and Suzuki GS1000) years ago (I lived in Woburn) when the only WRB's were hurricane netting fences ... and I didn't believe it was "Dangerous" then ... :shutup:

On-road "Furniture" seems more dangerous to me ... and would be my number one on my list of things to avoid. My opinion is ... if you don't want to hit the things OFF the road ... stay ON the road ... :shifty:

Seems logical to me ... :bleh:

[FJRider]

The problem with these barriers is

Barriers stop/slow vehicles (Cars/trucks)from leaving the road ... and going down a steep bank.

Motorcycles do NOT feature into that equation ... the numbers do not make it viable. If NO/FEW motorcyclists have died from hitting those barriers ... then (apparently according to that Ocean fella) they are perfectly safe ... right .. ??

[GrayWolf]

As far as bike riders go it is the group riders i feel are the most dangerous as the leader of the group will do an overtake pressuring all the followers to overtake to keep up with them. In such a situation I am sure safety is a secondary consideration to keeping up with the leader.

Unfortunately, thats a 'sign of the times' I guess.
Like many 'old farts' on here who started riding in the 60/70's, there were a high number of old Brit bikes still in regular use. (I lived in the UK back then). As a young sprat, when we went on a group ride, the small bikes usually went in a separate bunch, and the big bikes were 'arranged' that the leader was the 'slower machine(s)' with a couple of the reliable/faster bikes at the rear (in case of a breakdown mid pack, which was frequent) so they could catch up to the front runners to advise them.
I group ride almost weekly with work colleagues, We still somewhat use the same method, If you want a 'blast' you simply wait further on up the road, no problems. If we are overtaking, we work basically on the 'leapfrog' system.. leader overtakes, then lets the one behind 'catch up' before the next 'leap' and back on down the group...
All it takes is a little communication, which I have observed on many 'group rides' over the years (often the Sunday morning blasts over the 'Taka's) they meet up, and 'take off' with no real organisation, just a loose 'mele'.

[GrayWolf]

I'm gonna put my head on the chopping block with this one. I knew the poor chap that tragically lost his life. Not well by any stretch of the imagination...but I knew him. I also know a lot of the people he was riding with. I know a lot of riders funnily enough. But a 1000cc superbike ridden in anger is a formidable weapon best suited for a race track. There's a very good reason why I don't do such *group* rides or ride superbikes in anger on the street. My best wishes and condolences go out to the friends and family of the latest loss to motorcycling (many of whom I call friends), I mean no disrespect to him (RIP) or them...but it's time to reign it in guys. And I say guys cause it generally ain't the chicks.


At the end of the day what does it matter? Some people will not be affected by the recent death, some will. Some riders will pull their heads in (even if it's for a V short time) and some riders won't. What is a certain is that no matter what, the general public do not like us and are intimidated in some form by "fast riders" or riders that ride like twats and whatever any governing authority says for or against the bikers will not please everyone. The other certain is, as others have eluded too that some riders have ruined it for the rest.
People will keep killing themselves on motorcycles and we will keep losing friends, shit happens but not one of us can stop someone from making a fatal mistake. What we can do is try and be a little more sensible cause it sucks losing mates.

Both you and Pete hit the nail on the head, in this day and age there's so much 'ego' involved, Yeh OK there always has been as for power, speed, biggest, baddest bike. Reality is most riders EGO's far outweigh their ability.. the old adage, you can never have enough power? Today's off the peg sport machines are now FASTER than the bikes Barry Sheene and co used on the race track. Barry Sheene, Kenny Roberts, even today's Rossi are/were talented riders with a riding skill and ability that far surpasses the average rider... Yet why do we see the latest yamahonduki XPZ1000RR 'ridden like they stole it' most weekends over said 'taka's? These bikes out accelerate, out top speed what were RACE bikes, but are not ridden by people who'se ability matches the performance. There are VERY few men or women riding on the road who could, when used in anger, really use the performance available both correctly and safely.
Most modern metric (big inch) cruisers are almost as quick as the legendary Z1-900cc, dont believe it? go read performance specs for a ZI and compare...... yet cruisers are considered 'bloody slow'... Cars are the same.
You can argue better brakes, better tires, better handling, yes, but the saddle jockey hasnt improved since the 1960's when the old Triumph Bonneville reigned supreme.

[Gremlin]

It's up to each rider to control their environment - how they behave, who they ride with etc.

Personally? I feel no pressure to "keep up" with the leader, as with the rest of the group. Our groups are normally small, and usually the fight is to be TEC (I win most of the time :D) We don't dawdle, but we're not really exceeding the speed limit either, just not slowing down much either. Anyone new to the group is told there is no pressure and if they don't like the pace we're riding at, they're encouraged to find their own rides.

On big newbie type rides, I try to reinforce to newbies that there is a tail, no need to keep up, you won't get left behind, and the thing I hate the worst is picking up bikes out of ditches. Seems to work OK.

[Ocean1]

Both you and Pete hit the nail on the head, in this day and age there's so much 'ego' involved,

So why have motorcycle accidents decreased markedly since then?

Even accidents per registration?

[Flip]

I have a couple of other opinions.

Firstly over the 90s I have had to recover a couple of fuel tankers on the takas after a car had ended up under the trucks rear wheels. In all cases the car lost control and crossed the centre line.

Secondly I usually find that I can drive safer and faster over the tuckers than almost any bike can get over that road. I know its a great road, almost as good as the takaka hill road, certanly better than the akaroa race track. Its too tight and there are too few sections that favour power to weight over brakes and corner speed.

Of course its slowly being fucked as they take out the corners.

[carbonhed]

So why have motorcycle accidents decreased markedly since then?

Even accidents per registration?

Shhhhh! Don't disturb... he's doing his crusty old fuckwit routine. One, I must admit, he has down to a fine art.

[Ocean1]

Shhhhh! Don't disturb... he's doing his crusty old fuckwit routine. One, I must admit, he has down to a fine art.

:laugh: I have no problem with any of that. As long as there's minimal actual hypocrisy involved.

[FJRider]

If you had numbers I could possibly elaborate. But you don't got numbers. In fact it looks like you don't even have an opinion...

Later.

Ok ... it's "Later" ...


I DO have an opinion ... and it's on the subject of blame.

Most people (not just motorcyclists) when they crash ... need an excuse for their misfortune. The finger of blame must be pointed in any direction ... but it can't be pointed at them. Be it poor road design ... poorly located roadside furniture (6 meters from road edge) ... poor road conditions (after ignoring the usual ride to the conditions ethic) ... even the old fall-back option of "it wasn't my fault" (often the only road user in the area at the time)

Fact is .. YOU can't "elaborate" because you have no fucking clue. (My opinion too)

Fact is ... people make fuck-ups on the road. Some get away with it and live. Some die. I just hope I'm not in the latter group. My only concern is the grief that may be felt by any involved (but NOT at fault at the time)

I personally believe that more responsibility given for one's OWN actions. It would do more for road safety than all road safety programs to date IF ... six months JAIL for "Losing control" of your vehicle and would have an instant improvement in vehicle accident numbers ...

[caseye]

Oh, at last, a sage with the right stuff!
Yep FJ that'd be a better programme than anything else they've done collectively to-date, for sure.
Make it their problem and don't shirk the consequences, take the car, impound it and don't give it back cause mum,the girlfriend or the boss needs it.
Then the jail time, automatic, no excuses, lose your job because of it? tough shit!
Can't be put in jail cause the whanau can't live without you? tough again.
One law for all.
Go Winnie!, sorry a bit carried away there, but considering what he's saying now I'm back to loving him.

[GrayWolf]

Shhhhh! Don't disturb... he's doing his crusty old fuckwit routine. One, I must admit, he has down to a fine art.

Coz I AM a crusty old fucker!


:finger::moon::devil2:

[skippa1]

Coz I AM a crusty old fucker!


:finger::moon::devil2:
Me too... ,it's not that bad you know........

[NZIrish]

..was the original thread

Unless it can be policed 24/7, which it never will be unless they install a camera on every corner (130 or so), is an utter waste of time.

I thought the hill, given the amount of traffic used, had quite a good history in non fatal accidents obviously I'm missing something.

On a fine day with bugger all traffic it's still one of the best rides in the country....and stuff it I will continue to enjoy it safely.

[Berries]

Unless it can be policed 24/7, which it never will be unless they install a camera on every corner (130 or so), is an utter waste of time.
If it was 80km/h and you knew that they had patrols on there most days then you would knock a few k's off your top speed, even if it is just to stay within 40km/h of the limit so you don't have to walk. 'Speed zoning' like this is inevitable, even though on bikes we don't struggle to get to the posted speed limit between corners which seems to be the justification that is being used.

[swbarnett]

If this piece of road is really as dangerous as it's being made out to be the solution, while expensive, is blindingly obvious to anyone that has experienced it elsewhere - build a road tunnel and leave the twisty road to those that actually want a few corners in their day.

[FJRider]

If this piece of road is really as dangerous as it's being made out to be the solution, while expensive, is blindingly obvious to anyone that has experienced it elsewhere - build a road tunnel and leave the twisty road to those that actually want a few corners in their day.

The real danger lies with those that can't handle those corners .... :pinch:

[swbarnett]

The real danger lies with those that can't handle those corners .... :pinch:
Agreed.

There will always be such people and there's nothing we can do about that. In light of this I feel a tunnel would be the best option for them and would leave the twisty road as is (all corner straightening would cease) for the rest of us.

[FJRider]

Agreed.

There will always be such people and there's nothing we can do about that. In light of this I feel a tunnel would be the best option for them and would leave the twisty road as is (all corner straightening would cease) for the rest of us.

Does Mulholland drive ... ring a few bells ... ?? :killingme

[roogazza]

The real danger lies with those that can't handle those corners .... :pinch:
Went over there this morning.Trouble is,it's all over in 5 or 6 minutes nowdays.
(and it has more paint on it than the Auck harbour bridge.)
In days gone by, the ride started at Te Marua and you did the Kaitokes first.

[FJRider]

Went over there this morning.Trouble is,it's all over in 5 or 6 minutes nowdays.
(and it has more paint on it than the Auck harbour bridge.)
In days gone by, the ride started at Te Marua and you did the Kaitokes first.

I can remember buying a (shit) coffee at the top too ... Some "Interesting" machines could be seen there ...

[Dogboy900]

Was good when there was a cafe at the top. Made for a bit of a social stop up there. Could have a look at the other machines and a quick yarn before heading off to where ever. I would see some of the same characters up there every weekend I went up.

[Madness]

In days gone by, the ride started at Te Marua and you did the Kaitokes first.

I loved the old road through Kaitoke, lived in Marchant Rd for a while & used to do the road a couple of times a day on average in my Vauxhall Victor ('63 or '64 - I can't recall which one). The "whoop-de-doo's" were a brilliant warm-up, or down, depending on which way you were going.


Was good when there was a cafe at the top. Made for a bit of a social stop up there. Could have a look at the other machines and a quick yarn before heading off to where ever. I would see some of the same characters up there every weekend I went up.

The tearooms were managed by family of mine for a while & later by an old high school mate & his brother. I stayed the night up there a couple of times on watch duty, giving Uncle the night off to go to the pub. The place used to get burgled at night if left unattended & shots would get fired into the windows & doors. I was up at the summit the day the road was closed either side after a truck roll-over, along with a handful of other bikes. It was a tragic accident but for a while there the hill was Nirvana.


I can remember buying a (shit) coffee at the top too...

It must have been raining recently, the water supply to the café was a very small creek further up the hill. That said, the coffee was pretty shit on a dry week too.

[cheshirecat]

Agreed.

There will always be such people and there's nothing we can do about that. In light of this I feel a tunnel would be the best option for them and would leave the twisty road as is (all corner straightening would cease) for the rest of us.
What like the Homer tunnel?

[Gremlin]

What like the Homer tunnel?
No, smoother, ideally with enough space for two lanes.

There are a couple of wicked pot holes in that tunnel...

[cheshirecat]

No, smoother, ideally with enough space for two lanes.

There're a couple of wicked pot holes in that tunnel...Met that tunnel relatively new to riding here and expected some sort of Swiss Alpine effort being a major Int tourist number, well lite, high grip surface, smooth etc and dived in all enthusiastic like. Boy was I corrected and it didn't get any better exiting since the brains trust had "resurfaced" all those hairpins with ball bearing gravel advising me to go on the other side, like what the side the cars are coming up on, and blow me down the cage ahead rolled it at all of 30kph -- oh another surprise was all the racket at MS what with Helis, aircraft, launches, coaches etc. Nature my arse.

[KoroJ]

It'll be a pity if they do reduce the speed and bloody typical of the prats running our nanny state.

Having said that, from one perspective, it wouldn't be a problem becaused who does 100kph over the hill? Where it will be a problem is the dickhead NZ drivers that think that currently do 60kph and think that because the speed limit is reduced, they better do 50kph!!

The road isn't dangerous...it's a road!! It doesn't get up and slap if we ride/drive to the conditions. Some oif us ride it dangerously though.

Some like to just get there thrills on the Hill, but with SH1 as the only other option in & out of Wellington most of us have to use it to start and finish our rides. The stats might label it as a black spot, but I'll bet a penny to a pinch of shit that stacking the volumes per incident against any other black spots, it's probably not that bad??

As for group rides....with all that paint and traffic, 'pressure' applied by a lead rider just doesn't hold water on this stretch of road. I don't know how other groups deal with it, but local Ulys start from Brown Owl with a 'freeride' over the hill, regroup in Featherston, then start the group ride from there.

They dropped the limits on the Paekak' Hill to 70kph and that wasn;t too bad but now it's 60kph and that's a right royal pain in the arse. It's even too slow for a decent 'No Brakes' ride!! Where will it all stop!

[Smifffy]

So why have motorcycle accidents decreased markedly since then?

Even accidents per registration?

Motorcyclists are riding more responsibly as a direct result of increased ACC levies?

[swbarnett]

Does Mulholland drive ... ring a few bells ... ?? :killingme
Vaugely. Can't think why?

[swbarnett]

What like the Homer tunnel?
I was more thinking of the Gotthard.

Can't say I've ever heard of a hill road around the Homer tunnel.

[FJRider]

Vaugely. Can't think why?

Famous for West Coast (USA) biker vids of bikes falling off the road. Usually Youtube related vids ...

[swbarnett]

Famous for West Coast (USA) biker vids of bikes falling off the road. Usually Youtube related vids ...
Thought that road sounded familiar.

At least with a tunnel underneath there should be less to hit. Certainly all the truck traffic will be gone. More hoons of course.

[scracha]

IHaving said that, from one perspective, it wouldn't be a problem becaused who does 100kph over the hill?

I'm no nutter (bar one asshole t-boning me in town 8 years ago I haven't fell off on the road for over 20 years) and with the taka's having no margin for fuckups I always ride there at 50% but there's a fair percentage of that road where I'm hitting 100 between corners....there'd be a fair few more on a fast bike.

80k speed limit won't stop people doing mad over-takes and won't stop people cornering too enthusiastically. In fact, it may have the opposite effect. The yellow lines are a pain in the arse when it's clearly safe to overtake on a bike but in all honestly, with the shit riding I see nearly every time I go over the hill then I'm not really surprised they're there. Most drivers on the hill will pull left a bit and a bit of acknowledgement (a wave or blat of horn when in the car) and NOT RIDING UP THEIR ARSE goes a long way in encouraging them to repeat that sorta behaviour.

In either a car or bike, I'd sum up the Rimutakas with one word....FRUSTRATING. It needs at least a couple more overtaking sections both ways and signs reminding drivers (and riders) to just let faster moving traffic past. Seriously, I pulled over twice today coming back and it must have added what....20s to my journey?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thought that road sounded familiar.

.

Yeah but THIS is the REAL Mulholland Drive!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZeQOaFXTEI0?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ocean1]

Motorcyclists are riding more responsibly as a direct result of increased ACC levies?

Of course.

Or, it could be all the old bastards contaminating the traffic safety carnage story tale, having done most of the crashing required to learn better 30 years ago.

Arseholes.

[The Baron]

I went over the Rimutaka hill road today (Sun 26 about 11am).

Talk about sending a message, 3 police cars and a fourth at the bottom on the Hutt side, plus two police motorbikes.

Was I the only one to notice this?

[FJRider]

At least with a tunnel underneath there should be less to hit. Certainly all the truck traffic will be gone. More hoons of course.

And there's even a prison handy for the labour to DIG it ... :yes: :killingme

[Ocean1]

I feel a tunnel would be the best option for them and would leave the twisty road as is (all corner straightening would cease) for the rest of us.

BTW, there's already a tunnel. Not wide enough for two lanes, but northbound over the hill and southbound through the tunnel would at least eliminate the head-on thing.

[Rhys]

BTW, there's already a tunnel. Not wide enough for two lanes, but northbound over the hill and southbound through the tunnel would at least eliminate the head-on thing.

I would have thought the trains may have been a problem

[James Deuce]

Trains don't run very often. The main problem is that they never run on fucking time, so don't use the published timetable to plan your tunnel trip by motorcycle.

[pritch]

This sounds exactly like the Akaroa hill.

Nah, the Akaroa hill is way better. Trouble with Wellington last time I looked, Rimutaka hill is too busy with too many yellow lines. (Like the Manawatu Gorge.)
The Paekak hill has too many 4WDs. Last time I went through the Akatarawa Road there weren't *that* many 4WDs, but the drivers of those I did see were rubber necking the views as opposed to driving.

Never seen mention on here of the road to Makara, long time since I was there but I guess that's a bit short?

[speeding_ant]

Never seen mention on here of the road to Makara, long time since I was there but I guess that's a bit short?

I quite enjoy it on the 250 :rolleyes:

[James Deuce]

Nah, the Akaroa hill is way better. Trouble with Wellington last time I looked, Rimutaka hill is too busy with too many yellow lines. (Like the Manawatu Gorge.)
The Paekak hill has too many 4WDs. Last time I went through the Akatarawa Road there weren't *that* many 4WDs, but the drivers of those I did see were rubber necking the views as opposed to driving.

Never seen mention on here of the road to Makara, long time since I was there but I guess that's a bit short?

Short. 70km/hr. The gravel bit to J'ville is long gone.

All of those roads are storied. All of them are shit and always have been. You can sometimes grab a piece of fun but why bother grasping at hope, faded reconstructed memory and fantasy when you can travel for 2 hours instead of 1 and experience empty flowing roads that entice you to spend 3, 4, 5, 6 hours riding from Viking country to Michael Lawsland?

[Kickaha]

Nah, the Akaroa hill is way better. Trouble with Wellington last time I looked, Rimutaka hill is too busy with too many yellow lines. (Like the Manawatu Gorge.)
The Paekak hill has too many 4WDs. Last time I went through the Akatarawa Road there weren't *that* many 4WDs, but the drivers of those I did see were rubber necking the views as opposed to driving.


Hundalees are better than the lot of them, they're just a bit further to get to

[James Deuce]

I'll vouch for that. Worth the ferry trip.

[Paul in NZ]

There are a lot of places I'd rather ride a bike than the Rimutakas BUT the attraction is that its close to Wellington and short enough to be learnable. ie you can actually get to the point where you have learnt every bend etc and can then ride it pretty hard. What you can't learn is oncoming traffic, changes in surface, the weather and shit like falling rocks etc.

We were over there on sturday. Had a late start as we had an appointment in the morning so late lunch at Pauatahanui and riding over sometime past 2pm. That was jolly agreeable as though it was windier there was less traffic. (less is subjective, still enough to be bloody frustrating). A quick jaunt to Lake Ferry for afternoon tea and back home recrossing well after 5pm (sorry Jim2, had others with us and we had to get back).

The trip back was interesting. Going up the featherston side we have several cars make room and it was achieved reasonably cleanly. Going down... Gah! How people can drive with huge tail of vehicles behind them, several well posted pull over points and not move across to let people get on with it is beyond me. We picked up two other bikes behind us and everyone rode withing the law (no passing on the double yellows)

(it was a great day out fer sure)

I still find the ST 1050 a bit of a handfull 2 up in the wind (it can be a barge solo as well). Its purely a confidence thing as I'm picking the right line but just going in too slow and having to correct the line to suit. But we are definately seeing some improvement and I'm starting to really like this bike. I still cannot believe how much the suspension mods improved its ability 2 up...

Apparently I look like a Star Wars Stormtrooper with the flip front helmet...

[swbarnett]

I would have thought the trains may have been a problem
Of course the trains could be a short (or even longer) term solution. Run small trains at frequent intervals with flat-bed rolling stock to take road vehicles. Even if it were just trucks it would be advantagous.

This is already in operation in a number of European countries.

[Tazz]

Hundalees are better than the lot of them, they're just a bit further to get to

The road condition to Akaroa is much better 9 times out of 10 IMO. Unless it's a second pass I'm always a bit mindful of surprise lumps and the seemingly constant roadworks on the Hundalees. The will to live takes the fun out of it.

Aside from width in places and once (if) those 50 patches of marbles get brushed off, the Inland route between Kaikoura and Culverden-ish is an epic run.

[Paul in NZ]

The road condition to Akaroa is much better 9 times out of 10 IMO. Unless it's a second pass I'm always a bit mindful of surprise lumps and the seemingly constant roadworks on the Hundalees. The will to live takes the fun out of it.

Aside from width in places and once (if) those 50 patches of marbles get brushed off, the Inland route between Kaikoura and Culverden-ish is an epic run.

The Inland Kaikoura road is great apart form a couple of bends where 35KPH REALLY does mean 35KPH...

I have always prefered the Leader Valley road from Waiau to Shw 1... Brilliant bit of road...

[pritch]

The Inland Kaikoura road is great apart form a couple of bends where 35KPH REALLY does mean 35KPH...

I have always prefered the Leader Valley road from Waiau to Shw 1... Brilliant bit of road...

Done that inland road a coupla times. First time I was caught out by 35kph bends with no signs. Later corners did have signs, but the first ones didn't.

[Gremlin]

ie you can actually get to the point where you have learnt every bend etc and can then ride it pretty hard. What you can't learn is oncoming traffic, changes in surface, the weather and shit like falling rocks etc.
Well, that kinda sums it up. You should be riding any road like it's your first time, because you have no idea what might have changed since you rode it last (even if it was 30min ago).

[Paul in NZ]

Done that inland road a coupla times. First time I was caught out by 35kph bends with no signs. Later corners did have signs, but the first ones didn't.

Yeah I know the ones you mean.. Its like the sign crew started out with a trailer load of 35kph signs and got so far and went 'oh fug it...' and stuck up a windy road next whatever and went home to get on the piss...

[Racing Dave]

How people can drive with huge tail of vehicles behind them, several well posted pull over points and not move across to let people get on with it is beyond me. We picked up two other bikes behind us and everyone rode withing the law (no passing on the double yellows)...

You are allowed to pass where there are double yellow lines - just don't cross them. The Rimutakas are wide enough to slip past one car at a time, and when you're at the front, the car that's been holding you up has given plenty of time before you catch up to the next slow car.

[Rhys]

You are allowed to pass where there are double yellow lines - just don't cross them. The Rimutakas are wide enough to slip past one car at a time, and when you're at the front, the car that's been holding you up has given plenty of time before you catch up to the next slow car.

You are assuming that the vehicles are keeping to the left of the lane as per the road code

[FJRider]

You are allowed to pass where there are double yellow lines - just don't cross them. The Rimutakas are wide enough to slip past one car at a time, and when you're at the front, the car that's been holding you up has given plenty of time before you catch up to the next slow car.

Until some prick decides it's their "Civic Duty" to stop that hoon on a motorcycle ... overtaking everybody ... :angry:

And goes to great lengths to achieve this ... :blink:

[GrayWolf]

Until some prick decides it's their "Civic Duty" to stop that hoon on a motorcycle ... overtaking everybody ... :angry:

And goes to great lengths to achieve this ... :blink:

Kinda resurrecting this thread....
Rode over the 'taka's a 'few' times this week at various times of day, 3 times with almost zero traffic (2 or 3 cars) and once when it must have been about an hour after ferry docking. To say had I been in a car, or the Canam I would have been 'terrified'? There is no way B trains should be on that stretch of road. I am sure we have a few B train drivers on the forum, and possibly ones who have driven the 'taka's...
However, when you come round a bend to be confronted with a lorry and trailer halfway into your lane to negotiate said corner? Even on the bike I had a 'F**K ME' moment as I 'reacted' to alter road position. Main road or not, that hill is not designed for B trains, or very large loads...

[swbarnett]

, that hill is not designed for B trains, or very large loads...
That road is humongous compared to what we drove on in northern Italy. My wife was yelling at me to get away from the cliff as I nearly clipped mirrors with a ferrari. Over there they take full size tour buses on roads where they're nearly touching both sides on the tight bends. It cn take 20 minutes for two of them to pass if they meet on a bend.

What that hill needs is a tunnel. At the very least the heavy traffic should be put on a train instead of going over. However, until one of these solutions is put into action there's something that we Kiwis could learn from the Italians - Patience.

[FJRider]

... However, when you come round a bend to be confronted with a lorry and trailer halfway into your lane to negotiate said corner? Even on the bike I had a 'F**K ME' moment as I 'reacted' to alter road position. Main road or not, that hill is not designed for B trains, or very large loads...

If you came around that very same corner to find a very large rock taking up half of your lane ... would your reaction be any different .. ???

We always assume that "Our" lane IS clear around a blind bend ... even if we can't see around it ... or no indication there is a "blockage".

But we forget about the "being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead" rule ... and by your last line quoted .. :shit::blink::pinch:

[bogan]

If you came around that very same corner to find a very large rock taking up half of your lane ... would your reaction be any different .. ???

We always assume that "Our" lane IS clear around a blind bend ... even if we can't see around it ... or no indication there is a "blockage".

But we forget about the "being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead" rule ... and by your last line quoted .. :shit::blink::pinch:

To be fair, rocks are often moving a tad slower than oncoming B-trains.

[James Deuce]

Maybe those who feel bends can be taken "Fast and Safe" would rethink their belief on that road.

How the fuck do you ever get anywhere? I can only ever picture you taking incrementally and infinitely smaller units of distance out of the same corner without ever actually getting to an apex, let alone making it the whole way around!

[Ocean1]

To be fair, rocks are often moving a tad slower than oncoming B-trains.

Bollox. Rocks routinely leap very rapidly from the side of tracks to hit my KTM.

Gorse, bush lawyer, the more mobile forms of mud, all pretty rapid when it comes to actual "oncoming".

[Ocean1]

How the fuck do you ever get anywhere? I can only ever picture you taking incrementally and infinitely smaller units of distance out of the same corner without ever actually getting to an apex, let alone making it the whole way around!

Well, to complete the corner he first has to get half way. And then half of the rest of the way....

Proof that in fact he never actually completes any corner.

[Kendoll]

Treating public roads as racetracks needs to receive the same sort of condemnation that drink driving does these days.

What, a little smack on the wrist and a pathetic fine? Drink driving penalties are a complete joke :brick:

[Katman]

What, a little smack on the wrist and a pathetic fine? Drink driving penalties are a complete joke :brick:

I was referring more to the public stigma attached to drink driving - rather than the punishment.

[swbarnett]

the "being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead" rule ...
IIRC that's only on an unmarked road. It's your full visibility on a marked road.

[FJRider]

IIRC that's only on an unmarked road. It's your full visibility on a marked road.

Clear roadway ahead ... Marked or unmarked ... there is no distinction.

As the law is written ....

"Driving at a speed that means you are unable to stop in half of the clear distance ahead"

There are 20 Demerit points "Available" ... if you are found not doing so ... :yes:

[FJRider]

To be fair, rocks are often moving a tad slower than oncoming B-trains.

To be fair ... The bikers that have the issues ... will be traveling faster than both ... :pinch:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Maybe those who feel bends can be taken "Fast and Safe" would rethink their belief on that road.

http://blog.melschwartz.com/2011/08/14/stuck-in-a-groove/

[Ender EnZed]

Clear roadway ahead ... Marked or unmarked ... there is no distinction.

As the law is written ....

"Driving at a speed that means you are unable to stop in half of the clear distance ahead"

There are 20 Demerit points "Available" ... if you are found not doing so ... :yes:

Actually he's right.


You can drive at any speed under or equal to the limit, provided:


you can stop in half the length of clear road you can see in front of you on a road with no centre line or lanes (for example, a narrow country road where vehicles may meet head-on)
you can stop in the length of clear lane you can see in front of you on a road with a centre line or lanes.http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-limits/speed-limits.html

[FJRider]

How the fuck do you ever get anywhere? I can only ever picture you taking incrementally and infinitely smaller units of distance out of the same corner without ever actually getting to an apex, let alone making it the whole way around!

But she will get there ... eventually. Alive and happy ... ready for the next ride.

As long as she doesn't impede the flow of traffic and doesn't exceed any posted speed limits. How fast ... or how carefully she rides ... is her business.

[SMOKEU]

But we forget about the "being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead" rule ... and by your last line quoted .. :shit::blink::pinch:



As the law is written ....

"Driving at a speed that means you are unable to stop in half of the clear distance ahead"

There are 20 Demerit points "Available" ... if you are found not doing so ... :yes:

That's what I don't get. If I'm leaned over in a corner, then by the time I stand the Gixxer up, load the front suspension and tyre so I can brake hard, I'd have to go around corners at less than half their recommended speed in order to do that.

[James Deuce]

But she will get there ... eventually. Alive and happy ... ready for the next ride.

As long as she doesn't impede the flow of traffic and doesn't exceed any posted speed limits. How fast ... or how carefully she rides ... is her business.

No. That person has been riding since the Big Bang. At infinite and ever decreasing fractions of a corner radius, all but motionless to the naked ocular orb. Hopefully signposted as a hazard.

[FJRider]

That's what I don't get. If I'm leaned over in a corner, then by the time I stand the Gixxer up, load the front suspension and tyre so I can brake hard, I'd have to go around corners at less than half their recommended speed in order to do that.

That isn't against the law ... :no:

Perfectly legal ... :yes:

AND ... safe .. !!! :msn-wink:

Experienced motorcyclists should be able to tell if a blind corner is coming up ... ( hint: when the road ahead disappears <_< )

[FJRider]

all but motionless to the naked ocular orb. Hopefully signposted as a hazard.

I very much doubt her ocular orb's are naked (or motionless) when she rides ... she's not that kind of girl ... (or is she .. ??) ;)

[Kendoll]

How the fuck do you ever get anywhere? I can only ever picture you taking incrementally and infinitely smaller units of distance out of the same corner without ever actually getting to an apex, let alone making it the whole way around!

Heh, I do wonder the same thing :eek5: each to their own I guess, just don't hold me up eh! :Punk:

[Berries]

That's what I don't get. If I'm leaned over in a corner, then by the time I stand the Gixxer up, load the front suspension and tyre so I can brake hard, I'd have to go around corners at less than half their recommended speed in order to do that.
Fuck. How many crests do you know that are fun to take at 100km/h, or a little bit more, yet you can't see over them? I know a few, and one day some farmer will be walking his sheep just over the other side and I will plough in to them and die.

[SMOKEU]

Fuck. How many crests do you know that are fun to take at 100km/h, or a little bit more, yet you can't see over them? I know a few, and one day some farmer will be walking his sheep just over the other side and I will plough in to them and die.

Pretty much, yeah.

[GrayWolf]

If you came around that very same corner to find a very large rock taking up half of your lane ... would your reaction be any different .. ???

We always assume that "Our" lane IS clear around a blind bend ... even if we can't see around it ... or no indication there is a "blockage".

But we forget about the "being able to stop in half the clear distance ahead" rule ... and by your last line quoted .. :shit::blink::pinch:

1) A rock is stationary, and neither (unless it's just that instant landed) continue to encroach into, on, or across my lane, reducing by said velocity the room I have to maneuver.

2) Thank you for the lesson :bleh: Yup I do reduce speed, read the vanishing point, etc, etc, but again my ability to halt or adjust direction within a said distance is impacted by the forward motion of the oncoming vehicle. And brother some of them lorries aint hangin about, considering the road.

3) So yes my 'last line quoted'... is fairly accurate, obviously I did not become a 'bonnet mascot'.. but it is not nice to see your lane reduced substantially and be the filling in a B train, Vertical, solid rock wall. :shit: :confused:

[FJRider]

1) A rock is stationary, and neither (unless it's just that instant landed) continue to encroach into, on, or across my lane, reducing by said velocity the room I have to maneuver.

2) Thank you for the lesson :bleh: Yup I do reduce speed, read the vanishing point, etc, etc, but again my ability to halt or adjust direction within a said distance is impacted by the forward motion of the oncoming vehicle. And brother some of them lorries aint hangin about, considering the road.

3) So yes my 'last line quoted'... is fairly accurate, obviously I did not become a 'bonnet mascot'.. but it is not nice to see your lane reduced substantially and be the filling in a B train, Vertical, solid rock wall. :shit: :confused:

I have on two instances ... been riding the South Island west coast and found a large (stationary) rock in the "other" lane. Both these times ... it wasn't the rock causing the bother ... but the traffic coming the other way passing said rock on my side of the road (causing ME to slow for them). I even got the fingers from one of the drivers ... :angry: :blink:

The words "Impacted" and "oncoming vehicles" have nasty implications ... The one's you see coming are (usually) not the problem ones ... even B-trains. :shutup:

We have a few vertical rock walls in this area too ... and B-trains ... and campervans ... and ... all sorts of idiots driving things they haven't the ability to properly control. But are allowed to hire them anyway. :facepalm:

I'm glad you're nobody's bonnet mascot ... it's too far to go for a memorial run in your name ... :shifty:

[Howie]

I have on two instances ... been riding the South Island west coast and found a large (stationary) rock in the "other" lane. Both these times ... it wasn't the rock causing the bother ... but the traffic coming the other way passing said rock on my side of the road (causing ME to slow for them). I even got the fingers from one of the drivers ... :angry: :blink:

The words "Impacted" and "oncoming vehicles" have nasty implications ... The one's you see coming are (usually) not the problem ones ... even B-trains. :shutup:

We have a few vertical rock walls in this area too ... and B-trains ... and campervans ... and ... all sorts of idiots driving things they haven't the ability to properly control. But are allowed to hire them anyway. :facepalm:

I'm glad you're nobody's bonnet mascot ... it's too far to go for a memorial run in your name ... :shifty:

The west coast of the south island!!! I fondly remember cruising along SH 6 between Westport and Greymouth, I didn't find to many rocks on the road or if I did they weren't a memorable hazard but yep the famous camper van around a reasonably sharp blind corner stopped in the middle of the lane with the driver leaning out the window taking a photo of the sun starting to set. I guess the answer is ride with enough alertness and expect the unexpected. Oh and I did miss going up the back of the camper.

I have also met trucks on the takas taking wide entry lines on occasion. The best one though, was a car doing a overtaking manoeuvre around a blind corner while I was coming the other way still not quite sure how I got away with that one. I just picked the bike up and headed left as far as I could and somehow still got around the corner.