My bike makes funny noises! Listen! Not sure if fueling, ignition, other

[switchMode]

Hey all, so my bike is making funny noises and doesn't like certain RPM. I'm trying to figure out what is causing it (audio recording at the end of the post if tldr). Also not sure if this should be in fuel / electrical so please move if needed.

To cut a long long story to the salient points.
- I bought an ER6n, it came with an arrow slipon
- It backfired like a mofo, not happy at all
- I added an aftermarket air filter (it was stock)
- Maybe 5-10% improvement
- I bought and installed a power commander V with autotune
- Major improvement, now it only did weird things in certain gears at around 6+krpm

And then I left it like that for a long time, probably around a year, I basically just didn't take it over 6krpm in 2nd-4th and the problem didn't happen.

Then in the last week or so I downloaded the software back onto my comp and decided to start playing with the maps again, I managed to get a huge improvement by adjusting the timing slightly based on the er6n arrow map. At this point it seemed happy 90% of the time and just had some niggling issues betweeen 5-6k rpm. Today I played with it a bit more (always a bad idea), somehow the issue has managed to shift from 5-6k to 4-6k and from full throttle to about half throttle, its the same issue though I think just much milder. Unfortunately I didn't save the previous map.. Live and learn.

I can't for the life of me figure out exactly what's going on though, I thought if fueling was at fault then the autotune would catch it but maybe since its so extreme there is no AFR for the autotune to get a handle on it. Anyway I'm hoping that throwing this out there will ring a bell with someone more experienced than myself. My best guess right now is the ignition is a little bit retarded for where it needs to be but I'd rather not blow anything up finding out.

Here's what it sounds like: https://soundcloud.com/joe-swann-1/kawasaki-er6n-fueling-issue with a range of gears etc and showing it working at higher throttle (something that it used to flat out not do a few days ago). Sorry for the iffy sound quality its an iphone in a jeans pocket but you can definitely hear what's going on.

[AllanB]

Take it to a shop that has a dyno and PC tune equipment and get a bike/location specific map.

[switchMode]

Take it to a shop that has a dyno and PC tune equipment and get a bike/location specific map.

That is an eventual plan but Red Baron Auckland don't do power commanders (checked) and AMPS do harleys. So It's going to have to wait until I get some money and either find someone in auckland or go to Red Baron in Tauranga.

In any case if I can figure out what the problem is I might be able to get it running okay until I can do that.

[jonbuoy]

That is an eventual plan but Red Baron Auckland don't do power commanders (checked) and AMPS do harleys. So It's going to have to wait until I get some money and either find someone in auckland or go to Red Baron in Tauranga.

In any case if I can figure out what the problem is I might be able to get it running okay until I can do that.

Are you sure you are not trying to tune away an actual fault somewhere? It should be usable on a stock map even with a can and airfilter.

[switchMode]

Are you sure you are not trying to tune away an actual fault somewhere? It should be usable on a stock map even with a can and airfilter.

I'm not actually, but I kind of figured if it was an bad fault it would be a) worse and b) I wouldn't be able to move it around so much by changing the settings slightly. Also c) It has been fully serviced a few times and none of the mechanics have said anything was wrong. That last one is why I'd rather fix myself if I can, or at least understand the problem so I can communicate it to the man with the spanner.

If it was a fault what would it be? Generally something like that would get progressively worse wouldn't it?

[jonbuoy]

I'm not actually, but I kind of figured if it was an bad fault it would be a) worse and b) I wouldn't be able to move it around so much by changing the settings slightly. Also c) It has been fully serviced a few times and none of the mechanics have said anything was wrong. That last one is why I'd rather fix myself if I can, or at least understand the problem so I can communicate it to the man with the spanner.

If it was a fault what would it be? Generally something like that would get progressively worse wouldn't it?

I have no idea -sounds like a missfire in the audio but hard to tell. Faults don´t always get worse. Did it run fine except for the backfiring when you first got it? I would go back to the default fuel map/ecu and start again.

[AllanB]

Prior to the tuning I'd revert everything back to stock - muffler, air cleaner and pull the PCV. See how it runs - if it runs fine in stock condition it is one or a combo of the additions. If it misbehaves in stock trim then the issue is not related to the aftermarket goodies.

[switchMode]

Since the bike came with the Arrow muffler I unfortunately don't have a stock one to test with, if I did yeah that would be the way to go.

All the additions seem to have this helped fix whatever it is, but yeah maybe this is just masking a problem elsewhere, although I would have no idea what kind of problem would cause something like that, maybe a faulty injector or sensor somewhere maybe.

Seems like the kind of thing that can suck money getting a shop to replace bits one by one to see which if any is the cause..

I guess that it can run fine and pull hard from 0 to redline and the problem can be moved around to different gears and throttle positions makes me think its definitely less physical and more electronic.. Then again I do have no idea, could be an intake leak for all I know.

[ducatilover]

Can you do data logging on yours, and have you got the wideband O2 sensor fitted?

[switchMode]

It has this fitted, O2 sensor not sure if it's wideband https://cart.dynojet.com/p-1613-autotune-single-channel.aspx

Logging.. Great idea! Well if its a standard PCV feature it can probably do it just need to figure out how to set it up. Looking online seems like its needs the LCD to do it though.

[ducatilover]

Would be interesting to see what it's thinking is happening on the data logger, but you may be right about the LCD. Flick them an email maybe?
I'm not a fan of the autotune kit, is there any way you can get rid of the PCM unit and autotune, and try it standard?
Then check for intake and exhaust leaks.

[jonbuoy]

It's not related to the throttle position is it?

[switchMode]

Would be interesting to see what it's thinking is happening on the data logger, but you may be right about the LCD. Flick them an email maybe?
I'm not a fan of the autotune kit, is there any way you can get rid of the PCM unit and autotune, and try it standard?
Then check for intake and exhaust leaks.

Well it was standard before I installed it if that is what you mean, the problem hasn't started with the PCV. I suspect if I removed it I'd just get it back to what it was like before? I could just zero all the maps though which would do roughly the same thing.

Yeah I'll ask, surely there's a way even if it's logging over usb with a laptop in a backpack or something.


It's not related to the throttle position is it?

Yeah it seems to be related to the throttle position & the RPM & how much load the engine is under. I'd say those are the main factors. RPM range might be a byproduct of something else though?

[Banditbandit]

I'm old school - don't understand this computer technology on a bike ..

But in old school terms, backfiring occurs when the engine sparks with the exhaust valve open ... I'd be looking for a timing issue ... Now, in old school terms, I'd be looking at the points - but you won't have those. So I'd be looking at whatever controls the timing of your spark ... CDI unit???

(This is why I take my bikes to the shop and say "fix it - I'll pick it up after work ...")


So anyway - good hunting ..

[jonbuoy]

Well it was standard before I installed it if that is what you mean, the problem hasn't started with the PCV. I suspect if I removed it I'd just get it back to what it was like before? I could just zero all the maps though which would do roughly the same thing.

Yeah I'll ask, surely there's a way even if it's logging over usb with a laptop in a backpack or something.



Yeah it seems to be related to the throttle position & the RPM & how much load the engine is under. I'd say those are the main factors. RPM range might be a byproduct of something else though?

If you cant go back to stock easily then try and mentally record exactly when the problem happens speed/revs/throttle position. And if there is a lack of power or hesitation. From that you might find some sort of correlation with your tune map. Otherwise your shooting in the dark.

[switchMode]

So I emailed tech support and the long and the short of it was buy an LCD unit or don't bother.

I'm not going to do that, but what I might do is hook up the laptop in a backpack with screen recorder and correlate the time with a gopro. That should give a pretty good idea of what the PCV thinks is happening.. And make for some interesting visuals haha.

The backfiring I'm pretty sure was just overrun as when I got the bike it only happened on decel, the lumpy throttle at various speeds has always been there though. It probably is a faulty thing somewhere tbph, hopefully recording will show an AFR of -99 or an RPM of 99999 or something so I can pinpoint wtf is going on.

[hayd3n]

does your bike have pair valve????

[switchMode]

Yeah and I did this to it a while back http://www.kawiforums.com/ninja-650r-er6/179030-er-6n-pair-valve-de-snorkulation-easy-way.html

Just managed to do a short recording and have found *an* issue, not sure if it's *the* issue but it does explain why my autotune trims have been weird lately. Video coming soon

[switchMode]

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uZ_HKxqLNfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Numbers go RPM, % throttle, speed (mph?), gear, duty %, fuel trim, ignition trim and AFR

That 0.00 / 9.99 / 14.xx number on the bottom right is the AFR, and 9.99 is also the error code for not plugged in although I don't know why it's doing the other two things.

Apparently removed that noise from 4-6k entirely, although it still sounds really harsh at high rpm. Probably running lean.. I think the autotune not working but still trying to trim is a big clue.

[ducatilover]

You may want to figure out why your O2 sensor isn't reading, it may be needing to be calibrated, most widebands need calibration from time to time and especially if the unit has lost power.
Did you do the de-snorkel mod?
Have you looked in to the IAP mod also?

[switchMode]

You may want to figure out why your O2 sensor isn't reading, it may be needing to be calibrated, most widebands need calibration from time to time and especially if the unit has lost power.
Did you do the de-snorkel mod?
Have you looked in to the IAP mod also?

Yeah I did the desnorkle mod from that same link at the same time. I remain convinced the bike was already loud enough to not need it but hey loud pipes save lives right? (saved mine a few times in the CBD). Don't think I've even heard of the IAP mod, looks like it gives good results though so I'll give it a try.

GREAT NEWS EVERYONE!

After cleaning and soaking the sensor overnight in my solvent of choice and noticing one of the wires was a bit frayed at that end (duct tape solved everything), I plugged it back in this morning and discovered one of the wires was loose at the other end. Worried that the sensor was actually fine to begin with I started her up plugged into the laptop and after reading 9.99 for a few seconds real readings started to take over. Thanks to or more likely despite my attentions the sensor lives another day.

I have an hours ride in to town in two hours or so so good chance to see if giving the autotune free reign will actually work now.

[switchMode]

It works.

It works really well.

I want to go for another ride.

[jonbuoy]

I don´t know how long that particular O2 sensor takes to warm up but it might be that the autotune ignores the sensor until it has warmed up. Any exhaust leaks will throw the O2 readings off.

[switchMode]

I don´t know how long that particular O2 sensor takes to warm up but it might be that the autotune ignores the sensor until it has warmed up. Any exhaust leaks will throw the O2 readings off.

<60 seconds usually. Pretty sure there aren't any exhaust leaks now, the trims are much more reasonable now. Basically sat on the motorway trying everything from 5k to 8k with no issues whatsoever.. Going to have a proper ride and ring it out to see if there are any niggling problems but otherwise seems like the autotune trying to add 20% enrichment to everything was the problem all along.