Victim blaming alive and well

[rastuscat]

Yeah, so now the coroner says all cyclists should wear hi viz.

Next it'll be us.

Then women will be forbidden from wearing skirts, as it causes men to commit sexual assaults.

Yes, victim blaming is alive and well in Godzone.

[rastuscat]

293102

And then chickens crossing the road will be wearing hi viz.

[ellipsis]

293102

And then chickens crossing the road will be wearing hi viz.

...my chicken wont have a bean of it...

[Akzle]

heard that.
Fucking hate cyclists.
But anti the law, and hate smidsys more.

[skippa1]

Bring back bull rush

[scumdog]

Yeah, so now the coroner says all cyclists should wear hi viz.

Next it'll be us.

Then women will be forbidden from wearing skirts, as it causes men to commit sexual assaults.

Yes, victim blaming is alive and well in Godzone.

This IS the 21st century where its always 'somebody elses' fault...:(

[Scuba_Steve]

Yeah, so now the coroner says all cyclists should wear hi viz.

Next it'll be us.


No, no, no, it'll be us first... This is your near future Govt $$$ maker, you'll be winning those toasters faster than ever before

[Madness]

The Campbell Live poll tonight where 75% of respondents voted for the introduction of compulsory Hi-Vizzzz for cyclists just shows how the average it's-got-fuck-all-to-do-with-me Kiwi views the subject. We're fucked.

[rastuscat]

Yeah, bring in a law against someone else and we're all for it. But no more laws against us, thanks.

[skippa1]

The woman at the safety shop on Campbell Live thought it was a great idea. She must know, she sells those glow vests so she knows a lot about safety

[haydes55]

How about compulsory single file cycling, how about banning cyclists on narrow rural roads with blind corners (no amount of hi vis will help avoid a bike in the middle of a lane around a blind corner). You can't tell me that all cyclists who are hit are riding responsibly.

[Madness]

Might as well random drug test the pricks while you're at it.

:facepalm:

[Ocean1]

Bastards need a good blaming.

[BoristheBiter]

Good to see the government has rejected it then

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9659910/Govt-rejects-cycle-safety-proposals

[Scuba_Steve]

Good to see the government has rejected it then


... For cyclists; just wait till they decide it's a good idea for bikers

[MadDuck]

Then women will be forbidden from wearing skirts.

Or bras? Black eyes....car crashes by mens wandering eyes...

[Tazz]

10 more years and everyone will be in fluro cars too :rolleyes:


How about compulsory single file cycling, how about banning cyclists on narrow rural roads with blind corners (no amount of hi vis will help avoid a bike in the middle of a lane around a blind corner). You can't tell me that all cyclists who are hit are riding responsibly.

How about banning cars from narrow rural roads so it is safer for cyclists. :brick:

Don't think anyone said cyclists are never at fault. One of the linked articles even gives some statistics.

Single file areas would be awesome (Dyers Pass Road off the top of my head). The 'racing' dudes on the open road usually pack ride without taking up to much room.

[Flip]

Nope cyclists never do anything wrong..

The mobile road block down hill:
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Miles later still doing the mobile road block uphill:

293105

Miles later again 2 on the wrong side of the road going round a blind corner:


293106

There is no hope for these morons.

[Bikemad]

so how long will we all be wearin hi-viz vests before it actually becomes safer to wear a black t shirt :rolleyes:

[pritch]

The woman at the safety shop on Campbell Live thought it was a great idea. She must know, she sells those glow vests so she knows a lot about safety

Yeah, I was pissed off but had to smile. Fancy asking someone who depends on selling safety gear if they would like a whole new market.

I feel exactly the same about wearing hi viz on my push bike as I do on the Triumph. No thanks.

[Paul in NZ]

Its not (in this case) blaming the victim.... Its more of a case saying that here are some things the govt can do and here are some things you can do to make yourself more visible / safer. This was in response to the police officer who was run over by a truck / trailer on the round about in lower Hutt..

As usual no one wants to do anything because its everyone elses fault...

Meh.. I wear a hi viz jacket on me cycle if its a bit parky out and will get a hi viz tee shirt soon... I look like a recycled sperm whales testicles on it anyway so may as well make it into a feature...

[5150]

Nope cyclists never do anything wrong..

The mobile road block down hill:


Miles later still doing the mobile road block uphill:



Miles later again 2 on the wrong side of the road going round a blind corner:




There is no hope for these morons.

And it didn't accur to you to floor the loud pedal and get rid off some of these selfish cunts? Few perfect opportunities there. Couple less for the gene pool.

[skippa1]

Nope cyclists never do anything wrong..

The mobile road block down hill:


Miles later still doing the mobile road block uphill:



Miles later again 2 on the wrong side of the road going round a blind corner:




There is no hope for these morons.

You weren't driving and using your phone to take photos were you?

[5150]

Oldie, but a goodie :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdDxjge5hmY

[SMOKEU]

heard that.
Fucking hate cyclists.
But anti the law, and hate smidsys more.

You know that lycrafags never wear undies under their lycra, right?

[Smifffy]

Before the chickens get hi viz, they need to have hard hats. The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!

[Tigadee]

Yeah, so now the coroner says all cyclists should wear hi viz.

Oh come now... have you heard of anyone hitting a neon sign? No right? :lol:

[BoristheBiter]

Oh come now... have you heard of anyone hitting a neon sign? No right? :lol:

No couldn't find any on boobtube but if this hill had been wearing hi-viz it wouldn't have been run over by this bike.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dciyhfaScAo

[willytheekid]

Why are cyclists allowed on the road with no rear view mirrors?? :confused:

...surely having the ability to see whats coming up behind you when your so bloody slow would save alot of lives!, as it seems ALOT of cyclist seem to get hit from behind...for some reason:mellow: (As EVERY! other road going vehical is legally requried to have them...for bloody obvious reasons)

...but that would involve a personal & financial effort from cyclists to improve there own vehicals safety...instead of expecting all the other road user's to make allowances for there personal choice in transport <_<

plenty of choice's available to:yes:

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=bicycle+mirrors&rls=com.microsoft:en-nz&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&gws_rd=cr&ei=pF3pUvnqPJCmkgXJmoHIBA

[rastuscat]

99% of cyclists give the rest a bad name.

[willytheekid]

99% of cyclists give the rest a bad name.

:killingme

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rastuscat again"

[Ocean1]

Its not (in this case)
As usual no one wants to do anything because its everyone elses fault...

Bullshit. No one wants to do anything because it's everyone else's choice.

[BoristheBiter]

Why are cyclists allowed on the road with no rear view mirrors?? :confused:

...surely having the ability to see whats coming up behind you when your so bloody slow would


You mean like those towing horse floats?

[Akzle]

You know that lycrafags never wear undies under their lycra, right?

if i didnt know you better, id think you were coming on to me...

[Banditbandit]

Might as well random drug test the popos while you're at it.

:facepalm:

Fixed that for you

[Kendoll]

99% of cyclists give the rest a bad name.

What he said!! :killingme

[Paul in NZ]

Bullshit. No one wants to do anything because it's everyone else's choice.

You forgot to add, 'and it will cost time and money'

[pritch]

Why are cyclists allowed on the road with no rear view mirrors?? :confused:


What's the point of adding rear vision mirrors? The people who have them now don't use them.

Just yesterday I was overtaking a car which decided to pull out to pass the truck in front of it just as I was going by both. Fortunately my normal overtaking procedure means I was only beside the car very briefly. :whistle:

Besides, are you not aware there is a world shortage of sand? That for those of you who need something new to worry about...

[chasio]

Why are cyclists allowed on the road with no rear view mirrors?? :confused:

...surely having the ability to see whats coming up behind you when your so bloody slow would save alot of lives!, as it seems ALOT of cyclist seem to get hit from behind...for some reason:mellow: (As EVERY! other road going vehical is legally requried to have them...for bloody obvious reasons)

...but that would involve a personal & financial effort from cyclists to improve there own vehicals safety...instead of expecting all the other road user's to make allowances for there personal choice in transport <_<

plenty of choice's available to:yes:

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=bicycle+mirrors&rls=com.microsoft:en-nz&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&gws_rd=cr&ei=pF3pUvnqPJCmkgXJmoHIBA

Excellent example of the OP's point about victim blaming, right there.

I used to cycle a shit-load, but now hardly ever due to knee injury. I mostly rode on my own, stopping at reds, keeping left, aware of what was around me and doing my utmost to co-operate with the traffic. I wore hi-viz nearly always but would not agree to it being mandated.

For me, mirrors would have been pointless, IMO, as the hearing and vision on a bike are outstanding. (Note: I'd agree with fines for any cyclist listening to music whilst riding.) Also most drivers treat their mirrors as mere ornaments, so why wouldn't they do the same when cycling? After all, most cyclists also drive.

Anyway, my totally unscientific estimate based on many years of experience in and around Auckland was that roughly:
25% of drivers were pretty good around cyclists.
74% were indifferent about cyclist safety but usually manageable.
1% wanted you off the road and were happy to damage you to make their point.

I was even assaulted (punched in the back from behind by a front seat passenger) whilst setting off from a red light I had stopped at. How brave they were to wait until the lights changed so they could drive off. Maybe that's why cyclists don't stop? Cyclists are less vulnerable and more stable with a bit of momentum.

Meanwhile:
30% of cyclists are pretty decent
60% are generally iffy
10% are total muppets that amaze me by getting home in one piece more often than not.

I'd say it's the 70% that give the rest a bad name. :)

[haydes55]

Just this morning I saw 2 cyclists on a narrow rural road, stopped side by side chatting and having a drink of water... Just around a blind 65k corner. 30 seconds later I had to drive me van right on the edge of the road to allow a truck to get past in the opposite direction. I'll bet my left nut that truck had to cross the center line to overtake the Muppets, who I hope had gone back to riding single file.

Sad fact is there's a cycle lane by the new bypass that the cyclist could have used and avoided the narrow road all together.

So yes I would advocate banning cyclists on rural roads that are too narrow for 2 trucks to pass let alone 2 cars trying to stay in their lane and overtake a cyclist. It's no fun facing a head on collision as some Muppet in a car is overtaking a Muppet on a bike in my lane with no room.

[Banditbandit]

Sorry mate, I didn't see the house ...

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[willytheekid]

Excellent example of the OP's point about victim blaming, right there.

I used to cycle a shit-load, but now hardly ever due to knee injury. I mostly rode on my own, stopping at reds, keeping left, aware of what was around me and doing my utmost to co-operate with the traffic. I wore hi-viz nearly always but would not agree to it being mandated.

For me, mirrors would have been pointless, IMO, as the hearing and vision on a bike are outstanding. (Note: I'd agree with fines for any cyclist listening to music whilst riding.) Also most drivers treat their mirrors as mere ornaments, so why wouldn't they do the same when cycling? After all, most cyclists also drive.

Anyway, my totally unscientific estimate based on many years of experience in and around Auckland was that roughly:
25% of drivers were pretty good around cyclists.
74% were indifferent about cyclist safety but usually manageable.
1% wanted you off the road and were happy to damage you to make their point.

I was even assaulted (punched in the back from behind by a front seat passenger) whilst setting off from a red light I had stopped at. How brave they were to wait until the lights changed so they could drive off. Maybe that's why cyclists don't stop? Cyclists are less vulnerable and more stable with a bit of momentum.

Meanwhile:
30% of cyclists are pretty decent
60% are generally iffy
10% are total muppets that amaze me by getting home in one piece more often than not.

I'd say it's the 70% that give the rest a bad name. :)

An excellent example of victim blaming?? (For asking why bikes are not required to have mirrors like every other road going vehical is legally requried to!...for obvious reasons!)

If you can't use your mirrors...your a road hazzard & shouldnt have a license!...its that fucking simple!(As it IS a rather large part of the license sitting process...correct and frequent use of your mirrors...once again, for obvious fucking reasons!)

...And why is it that most incidents with cyclist are from being hit from behind?...just victims??...or a failure to see the threat behind them (such as veering out to go around a car...but failing to see the truck coming behind them!...how many have died doing THAT!!)

Im certainly not blaming cyclists for these horrific deaths etc, and I totally agree they have every right to use, and be safe while traveling on NZ roads...but times have changed...and the roads have become much more congested, and much more dangerous...and its about time cyclists realised this and also made an effort to reduce the horrific fatalitys & accidents on our roads involving cyclists.

As for "Maybe that's why cyclists don't stop? Cyclists are less vulnerable and more stable with a bit of momentum"...cool, is that arguement ok for motorcycles as well?? (same "benefits")...or would that just be plain fucking stupidity to start running red lights...cos were less vunerable that way! :facepalm:

And as for being assaulted...thats just bullshit!(theres some fucking pricks out there!..hope ya caught em), but I do certainly hope you got there number plate!...as all road going vehicals have this form of identification to allow for prosecution for such acts...oh...unlike cyclists! (but they never run red lights etc aye...oh...apparently they do, go figure?)

...victim blaming indeed!:weird: (just pointing out that if we ALL took steps to improve cyclists safety...we may just see less deaths on our roads...thats the goal aint it??)

Stay safe Cassie - no disrespect to you or cyclists intended

[caspernz]

Slightly off topic I'll admit, but I recall a suggestion for a bumper sticker aimed at cyclists. Was in Wheels magazine recently.

"Didn't your momma tell you? (Insert pic of push bike here) Don't play on the road with your toys!"

No I don't hate cyclists, just a shame some of the weekend warriors have such an obnoxious approach to self preservation, cycling in places that simply defy sanity...:brick:

Compulsory hi-viz sure as heck isn't the solution IMHO.

[chasio]

Sorry mate, I didn't see the house ...



House would have been OK in high-viz. The fact it wasn't means it must have been at fault...


An excellent example of victim blaming?? (For asking why bikes are not required to have mirrors like every other road going vehical is legally requried to!...for obvious reasons!)

If you can't use your mirrors...your a road hazzard & shouldnt have a license!...its that fucking simple!(As it IS a rather large part of the license sitting process...correct and frequent use of your mirrors...once again, for obvious fucking reasons!)

...And why is it that most incidents with cyclist are from being hit from behind?...just victims??...or a failure to see the threat behind them (such as veering out to go around a car...but failing to see the truck coming behind them!...how many have died doing THAT!!)

Im certainly not blaming cyclists for these horrific deaths etc, and I totally agree they have every right to use, and be safe while traveling on NZ roads...but times have changed...and the roads have become much more congested, and much more dangerous...and its about time cyclists realised this and also made an effort to reduce the horrific fatalitys & accidents on our roads involving cyclists.

As for "Maybe that's why cyclists don't stop? Cyclists are less vulnerable and more stable with a bit of momentum"...cool, is that arguement ok for motorcycles as well?? (same "benefits")...or would that just be plain fucking stupidity to start running red lights...cos were less vunerable that way! :facepalm:

And as for being assaulted...thats just bullshit!(theres some fucking pricks out there!..hope ya caught em), but I do certainly hope you got there number plate!...as all road going vehicals have this form of identification to allow for prosecution for such acts...oh...unlike cyclists! (but they never run red lights etc aye...oh...apparently they do, go figure?)

...victim blaming indeed!:weird: (just pointing out that if we ALL took steps to improve cyclists safety...we may just see less deaths on our roads...thats the goal aint it??)

Stay safe Cassie - no disrespect to you or cyclists intended



I understand why you think mirrors should be compulsory. As someone who has covered many, many thousands of kms on a push bike, I don't believe it would help much. Honestly, the dipsticks that have no idea what is going on behind them on a bike wouldn't have any more idea if they had mirrors. They simply would not use them.

As for victim blaming, there is a widely held belief that women who dress provocatively are more likely to be sexually assaulted. When dressed as such and it happens, some people say "they were asking for it". Yet the action (sexual assault) was not their doing. That is victim blaming.

There is a requirement to be able to stop in the clear distance in front of you (laned road, or half that if unlaned). If someone runs up the back of a cyclist who has taken a bad road position, the vehicle coming from behind is at fault.

You believe that cyclists would be less likely to be hit from behind if they had mirrors. If they get hit from behind without mirrors, are they partially at fault in your view? I had inferred that you think so, but concede that I may have misinterpreted your position. But if you do think they contributed, like wearing a short skirt, that is victim blaming.

Of course, mirror-equipped motorbikes are nearly as vulnerable (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139166-Sideswiped-off-the-highway-by-a-4x4) to being swiped off the highway, except they can maintain a higher speed so are harder to catch...

The punch - no chance on getting the plate as I was clipped in and trying very hard not to fall off. I had to jump up and down a traffic island but stayed upright. By the time I got cranking they were too far away to read it. BTW, that is only one instance. I've been hit by bottles and other crap thrown at me as well as being run into a ditch on a clear, wide, straight road with no other vehicles.

Oh, I was pulling your leg about the red light thing. Got more than I bargained for :eek5:

As an aside: AFAIK there is no minimum size for a mirror fitted to a motorbike e.g. one guy I know gets his WOF with a dental inspection mirror taped to his bars (he uses a Reevu helmet instead). But he's legal and that mirror is certainly not much use. I don't think you even need to be able to SEE the mirror fitted to your motorbike in order to pass. It could be under your tail tidy. But that is another bit of craziness...

[willytheekid]

I understand why you think mirrors should be compulsory. As someone who has covered many, many thousands of kms on a push bike, I don't believe it would help much. Honestly, the dipsticks that have no idea what is going on behind them on a bike wouldn't have any more idea if they had mirrors. They simply would not use them.

As for victim blaming, there is a widely held belief that women who dress provocatively are more likely to be sexually assaulted. When dressed as such and it happens, some people say "they were asking for it". Yet the action (sexual assault) was not their doing. That is victim blaming.

There is a requirement to be able to stop in the clear distance in front of you (laned road, or half that if unlaned). If someone runs up the back of a cyclist who has taken a bad road position, the vehicle coming from behind is at fault.

You believe that cyclists would be less likely to be hit from behind if they had mirrors. If they get hit from behind without mirrors, are they partially at fault in your view? I had inferred that you think so, but concede that I may have misinterpreted your position. But if you do think they contributed, like wearing a short skirt, that is victim blaming.

Of course, mirror-equipped motorbikes are nearly as vulnerable (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/139166-Sideswiped-off-the-highway-by-a-4x4) to being swiped off the highway, except they can maintain a higher speed so are harder to catch...

The punch - no chance on getting the plate as I was clipped in and trying very hard not to fall off. I had to jump up and down a traffic island but stayed upright. By the time I got cranking they were too far away to read it. BTW, that is only one instance. I've been hit by bottles and other crap thrown at me as well as being run into a ditch on a clear, wide, straight road with no other vehicles.

Oh, I was pulling your leg about the red light thing. Got more than I bargained for :eek5:

As an aside: AFAIK there is no minimum size for a mirror fitted to a motorbike e.g. one guy I know gets his WOF with a dental inspection mirror taped to his bars (he uses a Reevu helmet instead). But he's legal and that mirror is certainly not much use. I don't think you even need to be able to SEE the mirror fitted to your motorbike in order to pass. It could be under your tail tidy. But that is another bit of craziness...

:pinch:ouch!..lol, ya had to bring up the hit that forced me to sell my beloved guzzi :weep:(shattered my shoulder that did)

But yes, totally agree, its not the cyclists fault when hit from behind...I just thought that mirrors may help them spot the tools that fail to see them or react to there dodging a car door being throwing open or such, it may help reduce the death rate....I dunno (hence the question)

(And if they get hit from behind and don't have mirrors...certainly not there fault!...same goes for short skirts)

Well done for staying upright after the punch incident :2thumbsup...Ive had the bottle thing too...but like you..thats just one of the many many incidents we are forced to deal with.

Reevu helmet!!:eek:...they look bloody awesome! (lucky guy)

It certainly seems clear that the solution is not an easy one when it comes to road safety for cyclists...I don't think Hi-viz is gonna help at all, maybe better roads and harder license standards...I dunno...but at least people are trying to address the issue and like you, open to discussion :yes:

many thanks for the feedback chasio, always a pleasure :D (its why I love this site...you guys put up with my stupid questions and rambling lol)

[James Deuce]

As much as I kid around about cyclists being utter dickheads, I won't ride a pushie on the road after a friend of my wife had her pelvis shattered whilst training for a triathlon.

Bogans driving over the Haywards see babe (she was a VERY attractive woman) riding pushie in lycra, bogan in back seat tries to slap her in the arse as they go past (driver obviously colluding) breaks arm due to 70-80km/r speed differential and utterly smashes her pelvis. She munts her face on the tarmac requiring facial reconstruction surgery, new teeth, and loses the baby she was carrying. She didn't know she was pregnant. Which of course just builds more evidence for my theory that all people are dicks.

[chasio]

As much as I kid around about cyclists being utter dickheads, I won't ride a pushie on the road after a friend of my wife had her pelvis shattered whilst training for a triathlon.

Bogans driving over the Haywards see babe (she was a VERY attractive woman) riding pushie in lycra, bogan in back seat tries to slap her in the arse as they go past (driver obviously colluding) breaks arm due to 70-80km/r speed differential and utterly smashes her pelvis. She munts her face on the tarmac requiring facial reconstruction surgery, new teeth, and loses the baby she was carrying. She didn't know she was pregnant. Which of course just builds more evidence for my theory that all people are dicks.

That is just sickening.

I wonder how many of the (maybe semi-serious) "smash the cyclist" brigade still think it's a good idea after reading that.

[SMOKEU]

if i didnt know you better, id think you were coming on to me...

That's wishful thinking on your part.

293119

[Ocean1]

You forgot to add, 'and it will cost time and money'

Still no one else's business.

Just because the state pays for some of the costs of some of the choices doesn't mean they get to make those choices.

If there's any doubt about that imagine taking state control to it's logical conclusion.

Mashmate would blow his load, but most everyone else wouldn't be very happy campers.

[Madness]

As much as I kid around about cyclists being utter dickheads, I won't ride a pushie on the road after a friend of my wife had her pelvis shattered whilst training for a triathlon.

Bogans driving over the Haywards see babe (she was a VERY attractive woman) riding pushie in lycra, bogan in back seat tries to slap her in the arse as they go past (driver obviously colluding) breaks arm due to 70-80km/r speed differential and utterly smashes her pelvis. She munts her face on the tarmac requiring facial reconstruction surgery, new teeth, and loses the baby she was carrying. She didn't know she was pregnant. Which of course just builds more evidence for my theory that all people are dicks.

As horrific as that story is, I think you're safe Jim. Ive seen your arse & I can't imagine anyone would feel the urge to give it a slap.

[James Deuce]

There is that, however it does open up the scope for random lumps of 4x2 out the window and stuff, eh?

[Madness]

There is that, however it does open up the scope for random lumps of 4x2 out the window and stuff, eh?

Actually Jim, knowing your luck...

[Swoop]

You mean like those towing horse floats?
Yup. Horses are a form of transport = ride them. Apparently horses can go "off-road" so therefore horse floats need to be banned outright.

Ding!
"Next crisis to be solved!"

[Kickaha]

Why are cyclists allowed on the road with no rear view mirrors?? :confused:

...surely having the ability to see whats coming up behind you when your so bloody slow would save alot of lives!, as it seems ALOT of cyclist seem to get hit from behind...for some reason:mellow: (As EVERY! other road going vehical is legally requried to have them...for bloody obvious reasons)


Cars seem to get rear ended on a regular basis and they have rear vision mirrors, so it doesn't seem to help that much

Where's your accident date for cyclists getting rear ended coming from?

There'd be less cyclist deaths (actually less any kind of traffic deaths) if people weren't such cunts when they get behind the wheel

[BoristheBiter]

There'd be less cyclist deaths (actually less any kind of traffic deaths) if people weren't such cunts when they get behind the wheel

And that right there is the crux of the problem.

or any form of transport.

[flyingcarpet]

just start tunining in to talkback radio , then you can be like most of newzealand and not have to think for yourself ,and repeat others opinions , or get out there and own your fucking part of the road and have a ride.

[Robbo]

Cars seem to get rear ended on a regular basis and they have rear vision mirrors, so it doesn't seem to help that much

Where's your accident date for cyclists getting rear ended coming from?

There'd be less cyclist deaths (actually less any kind of traffic deaths) if people weren't such cunts when they get behind the wheel

Now ain't that the truth..:yes:

[98tls]

Define "victim" plenty on here claim that status when someone else on 2 wheels doesnt return there wave.:pinch:

[swbarnett]

Fuck there's a lot of hypocrites on here! (why am I surprised?)

For every anti-cyclist zealot there's at least one anti-motorcyclist zealot. It's human nature that we fear what we don't understand.

FFS, we were the ones yelling "Who's next?" Now it's the turn of the cyclists - and we'll be next.

Have the same respect for the cyclist's choice of personal transport that we demand for ourselves.

Yes, there are bad apples in the cyclist fraternity - just like every other group you care to mention.



BTW: I am in full support of mandatory rear-view mirrors and registration plates. Cyclists do need to take some personal responsibility for their own safety.

[Robbo]

Yeah, so now the coroner says all cyclists should wear hi viz.

Next it'll be us.

Then women will be forbidden from wearing skirts, as it causes men to commit sexual assaults.

Yes, victim blaming is alive and well in Godzone.

Cycling can be very hazardous to your health. I have almost crashed on several occassions when i have come across inconsiderate cyclists like this.:woohoo:

[R650R]

The coroners court usually comes up with good stuff but this time their off the mark.
As soon as everyone is wearing hi-vis it loses its effectiveness, there's already too many people wearing them. Ask anyone whose been hit by a forklift how effective the hi-vis was, accidents happen because people don't look in first place.
The hi-risk group seems to be the racer cyclists on narrow rural hi ways whose riding position obscures such gear anyway.
What gets me if we're looking from a risk perspective compared to other activities and workplaces is cyclists must have the lowest level of mandated safety gear. There's a huge amount of hard and soft safety gear that downhill mountain bike racers use that could be taken up by road riders. Even knee and elbow protectors would save ACC a fortune.
An exemption could apply to normal commuters and school kids travelling below 30kph
But another too hot political potatoe, getting re-elected comes ahead of real road safety...

[swbarnett]

As soon as everyone is wearing hi-vis it loses its effectiveness,
That's assuming it worked in the first place. Something that is very debatable.


cyclists must have the lowest level of mandated safety gear.
And motorcyclists. Both groups only need a helmet to be legal.


There's a huge amount of hard and soft safety gear that downhill mountain bike racers use that could be taken up by road riders. Even knee and elbow protectors would save ACC a fortune.
When's the last time you trudged up a steep hill on a bicycle in the middle of summer? Even wearing a helmet can be a big impediment to heat dissipation.

[oneofsix]

And motorcyclists. Both groups only need a helmet to be legal.



The difference being that the motorcycle has a higher level of mandated safety than the bicycle. If you just look at the operator and what they have to wear, the cage driver has the lowest as they don't even require the helmet :laugh:

[swbarnett]

The difference being that the motorcycle has a higher level of mandated safety than the bicycle. If you just look at the operator and what they have to wear, the cage driver has the lowest as they don't even require the helmet :laugh:
Indeed. This is why it's not helpful to consider the operator as separate from the machine.

[JimO]

i hate it when you come up behind a cyclist with a nice arse and long blond flowing hair only to find that its a bloke

[R650R]

When's the last time you trudged up a steep hill on a bicycle in the middle of summer? Even wearing a helmet can be a big impediment to heat dissipation.

Very recently, I do at least three rides a week in the local mountain bike park, training for some upcoming events.
If its a typical HB 30deg day I still go as the harder you train the better.

I know it would be damn uncomfortable to wear all the gear. What I'm saying is the highly political road cycle movement crys fouls at all other road users but fails to make use of all available safety gear.
With the LTSA and police waking up the real impact of fatigue on road crashes I don't understand how they can continue to be allowed to use the highways at high speeds as some kind of gymnasium while at the limits of human endurance.

I agree with another poster too about the mirror thing but we'd have to teach kiwi motorists and cyclists to use them first. Anyone who has driven in UK and/or done their tests will know how much safety improves with them.

LOL at the female/male biker mis-ID...

[FJRider]

The difference being that the motorcycle has a higher level of mandated safety than the bicycle. If you just look at the operator and what they have to wear, the cage driver has the lowest as they don't even require the helmet :laugh:

The only mandated safety equipment a motorcyclist has to wear is a crash helmet ... even if it is only an open face helmet. Shorts .. T-shirt .. jandals are perfectly legal apparel to be worn whilst riding ... :yes:

[swbarnett]

Very recently, I do at least three rides a week in the local mountain bike park, training for some upcoming events.
If its a typical HB 30deg day I still go as the harder you train the better.
Fair call. I used to cycle a lot. I once passed out while waiting at the lights from heat exhaustion.

[FJRider]

I know it would be damn uncomfortable to wear all the gear. What I'm saying is the highly political road cycle movement crys fouls at all other road users but fails to make use of all available safety gear.


Road cycle users are no different to any other road user group. The only difference is the road rules/laws they selectively choose to ignore/obey ... if it suits them at the time .... :shifty:

Yet demands ALL other road users to obey road rules/laws that affect them adversely if ignored ... :blank:

[Kickaha]

Road cycle users are no different to any other road user group. The only difference is the road rules/laws they selectively choose to ignore/obey ... if it suits them at the time .... :shifty:



Yeah, I can't think of any other group of road users that would behave like that :rolleyes:

[kinger]

I agree with another poster too about the mirror thing but we'd have to teach kiwi motorists and cyclists to use them first. Anyone who has driven in UK and/or done their tests will know how much safety improves with them....

Not too sure that the family squashed between two trucks the other week would agree with the advantages of being able to see hazards behind you. Perhaps if we didn't spend 30% of our time behind looking down at the speedo, we could concentrate on hazards ahead instead.
As for the UK bit..........haven't got a fuckin scooby what you're on about.

[Kickaha]

Perhaps if we didn't spend 30% of our time behind looking down at the speedo, we could concentrate on hazards ahead instead.

If you spend 30% of your time looking at the speedo I think you should consider taking the bus, you're obviously not competent to drive/ride a vehicle

[FJRider]

Not too sure that the family squashed between two trucks the other week would agree with the advantages of being able to see hazards behind you. Perhaps if we didn't spend 30% of our time behind looking down at the speedo, we could concentrate on hazards ahead instead.


As that family found ... what is behind is just as dangerous as that in front ...

It is always to your advantage to know what is coming up on you from behind. If you don't look ... you can't get out of the way if there IS danger ...

[R650R]

Not too sure that the family squashed between two trucks the other week would agree with the advantages of being able to see hazards behind you. Perhaps if we didn't spend 30% of our time behind looking down at the speedo, we could concentrate on hazards ahead instead.
As for the UK bit..........haven't got a fuckin scooby what you're on about.

In the UK you physically have to turn your head to show your looking in your mirrors during the test, well for HGV anyway. And they expect this every 2-3 seconds not 30-60... Also you never stop so close to the car in front that you cant drive around them without reversing if they broke down etc. It all seemed to suck at first but after awhile I saw the benefits and my driving improved because of it.
Those drivers that overtake dangerously and cut in close etc... well if your aware of whats happening behind you enact a plan that avoids an incident. That driver that suddenly cuts across three lanes and causes you to brake heavy by the offramp, well those who look in their mirrors see them coming and avoid being involved in a crash most of the time.
Don't want to debate that other tragedy as we don't know enough yet...

[Banditbandit]

When's the last time you trudged up a steep hill on a bicycle in the middle of summer? Even wearing a helmet can be a big impediment to heat dissipation.

See . that's a great demonstration of how stupid some push bike riders are ...

If you are trudging up a hill pushing the bike then you can legitimately take off your helmet and hang it over the bars ...

And why trudge up a hill when you can get something with an engine ????

[SMOKEU]

And why trudge up a hill when you can get something with an engine ????

Because it's good exercise. When I lived up a hill, I didn't have much choice either.

[rastuscat]

The coroners court usually comes up with good stuff but this time their off the mark.


Quite often they are off the mark, actually.

Basically, a Coroner spends heaps of time looking into something, so feels that they have to point the finger at a solution in order to justify their position.

This time the solution arrived at is total nonsense. Being visible depends more on contrast than colour.

It also depends on taking action to make your movement very obvious to anyone who may or may not have seen you e.g. not appearing from behind a truck when using a cycle lane.

Just sometimes Coroners should accept that sometimes shit happens, and can't be solved.