Myth busted- drove a SUV over Rimutakas. They can be steered

[MD]

So with all this bleating by car drivers in the Dom Post about nasty bikes travelling too fast on the hill and overtaking bloody slow traffic that's going ridiculously slow, I thought I would take an open view and look at the world from the oppositions perspective.

I had to drive to Masterton for work and took a Sante Fee 3L diesel SUV thingy. Now it's no secret I detest all things 4WD and SUV that are not owned by Tradies or Farmers. So I wore a disguise in case anybody recognised me behind the wheel of one of these repulsive vehicles. You can tell I went into this with an unbiased open mind can't you. It has puzzled me why on Piecock Hill and Rimutakas I constantly meet SUVs coming at me on my side of the road. I had assumed there was some global mechanical fault that forced all SUV drivers to use both sides of the road and at the same time drive stupidly slow, commence braking 2 minutes before reaching each bend and unable to pull over.

BUT shock, horror, I have busted this myth. The SUV steering wheel worked pretty much the same as in a conventional car. Turn it a bit to the right and the vehicle changed direction accordingly. Rotate steering wheel more or less and the degree of the vehicles directional change varied at a similar rate, just like in a car. Not once did I threaten the centreline.

Also the SUV could accelerate very well and enter and exit corners at an acceptable rate without the need to create a massive tail back of cars behind.

Armed with this new found knowledge I returned a puzzled man. Yes I had discovered the truth that the engineering design itself of SUVs isn't the cause of their owner's driving like inconsiderate pricks and total arseholes that I regularly witness.

So my research has only half answered this conundrum. It's not the SUV itself at fault for so many displays of selfish, arrogant, inconsiderate and dangerous driving, like always cutting corners, driving too slow for the traffic flow and never pulling over to let traffic pass.

Am I overlooking another factor or could it just simply be as I've often said, most SUV owners are wankers

[haydes55]

I know the answer.

Who crash more often?
Bad drivers.

Who has to think about protecting themselves and the occupants of their vehicles safety from crashes more?
Bad drivers.



Because their driving is below acceptable, and they have multiple crashes in their lives, they buy an SUV to be safer on the road. Actually getting some training or giving a shit about driving might stop them from crashing, but they can always blame a crash on someone else, so just buy a bigger vehicle.


SUVs don't make people bad drivers, bad drivers choose SUVs to avoid their inevitable Darwin award ceremony.

[FJRider]

SUVs don't make people bad drivers, bad drivers choose SUVs to avoid their inevitable Darwin award ceremony.

They also require two car parks in any parking area ... as they seem incapable of needing just one ... and still able to get out of said parking space ...

[Paul in NZ]

Mind you - there are SUV's and SUV's. I drove a Surf a with huge tyres on it. It felt like it needed two lanes to do 100kph on the motorway...

[mashman]

OMG you're lucky to be alive. Wotcha gonna try next? Can you try it with your vehicle on fire coz I think that'd look awesome.

[SMOKEU]

The muppets in their SUVs over the Akaroa hill are so stupid that I can smell their burning brakes long before I can see them. Are people that incompetent that they don't even know how to use any engine braking? Are they stupid enough to believe that braking during a corner (not just before the corner) is a safe way to drive?

[Akzle]

a cager bitch thread! Just what we need!

[GSW]

Video proof or it didn't happen! :oi-grr:

[TheDemonLord]

I feel I can add something to this

Getting a bigger car with sub par suspension to go 'fast' (and by fast I mean up to 104 kph) on a windy road is an artform.

Especially tricky is to do it with an Auto as you can't use engine breaking in the same way you would with a manual, the trick is to carry speed into the corner, but most people have no concept of how to do this as they have been used to letting the car do all the work (over breaking, then just accelerating hard to get back up to speed)

Case in point - my Cage is an Auto Mazda 6 (the 2.3 l version but not the sport version) and I can get it to pootle along at a high rate of knots quite happily, but others who have driven it, struggle to get it to stay at 100

[skippa1]

More whinging in here than a room full of menstruating women

[James Deuce]

I feel I can add something to this

Getting a bigger car with sub par suspension to go 'fast' (and by fast I mean up to 104 kph) on a windy road is an artform.

Especially tricky is to do it with an Auto as you can't use engine breaking in the same way you would with a manual, the trick is to carry speed into the corner, but most people have no concept of how to do this as they have been used to letting the car do all the work (over breaking, then just accelerating hard to get back up to speed)

Case in point - my Cage is an Auto Mazda 6 (the 2.3 l version but not the sport version) and I can get it to pootle along at a high rate of knots quite happily, but others who have driven it, struggle to get it to stay at 100

Why would anyone break their engine to control their speed?

[mashman]

Why would anyone break their engine to control their speed?

It'll work won't it?

[James Deuce]

Once, and once only.

[Big Dave]

Generalisations are for wankers.

[James Deuce]

SUV waywardness is more of a trope than a generalisation.

[willytheekid]

SUV waywardness is more of a trope than a generalisation.

:blink:...

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...thank fuck for google! :laugh: (Just stop it james!...you know these flashy words hurt my head :laugh:)

ps...why are most SUV's 4x4's on the road badly in need of new glo-plugs?...the black smoke most of them belch out tastes bloody gross!...is it like a bread trail in case they get lost?? :confused:)

[neels]

Saw a good example of this the other night following a new hyundies SUV around the summit rd, driving down the middle of the road except for the corners he went a bit wide on when it was mostly on the wrong side of the road, saddest part being that it was holding me up in my gutless old terrano.

Even a couple of cars and a motorbike having to take evasive action when they met him around bends didn't seem to put him off, moved left to let them past then back to the middle.

[F5 Dave]

What gets me is that I drive over the hill every so often in the van, two blokes, gear, gas and a couple of dirtbikes. You can only go so fast
So why are fckers holding me up???!

Also trucks veering into my lane around tight corners like they know I've got bikes in the back before they can see me.

[SMOKEU]

We need a witch hunt. Burn them I say.

[Ocean1]

It's the 215/7500/15" tyres they're encumbered with.

I just replaced the ones on t'van with some new 17" wheels and 225/55/17 tyres.

Fookin' Huuuuge difference, you don't have to wait for the fuckers to roll off the rims before you actually begin to navigate a corner. I swear the tread on the old tyres was good as new, the sidewalls were down to air.

[_Shrek_]

Saw a good example of this the other night following a new hyundies SUV around the summit rd, driving down the middle of the road except for the corners he went a bit wide on when it was mostly on the wrong side of the road, saddest part being that it was holding me up in my gutless old terrano.

Even a couple of cars and a motorbike having to take evasive action when they met him around bends didn't seem to put him off, moved left to let them past then back to the middle.

I got a set of brake pads for a terrano do you need some.... I know off topic :whocares:

[merv]

Terrano, that'd be an SUV too wouldn't it :yes: ?

Silly thing is most SUV's are about the same footprint as a car - length x width - they don't need more room on the road nor a bigger parking space. That is their beauty, they can tote a good load for the same size due to more upright seating etc and can also do the offroad thing.

Its not just SUV's either - I seem to follow many drivers that can't stay within the lane markings - Mrs says they must have been the ones that couldn't colour in very well in their school days. Particularly bad are their right hand curve abilities always crossing the centre line.

It definitely isn't the vehicle MD, it is the dumbfuck behind the wheel.

[Swoop]

More whinging in here than a room full of menstruating women
So, you just had to add yours then? Or are you on the rag today?

ps...why are most SUV's 4x4's on the road badly in need of new glo-plugs?...the black smoke most of them belch out tastes bloody gross!...is it like a bread trail in case they get lost?? :confused:)
Clarkson said "greenies love the planet so much they choose an eco-friendly diesel. Which then covers the planet in a film of soot" or words to that effect.
It is quite shocking to see the smokescreen behind some vehicles. They put James Bond's Aston Martin to shame at times with their "special devices".:blip:

[skippa1]

So, you just had to add yours then? Or are you on the rag?

Thats what us bitches do

[Brian d marge]

Generalisations are for wankers. Im generally in the morning

Name and address withheld

Stephen

:doh:

[FJRider]

The muppets in their SUVs over the Akaroa hill are so stupid that I can smell their burning brakes long before I can see them. Are people that incompetent that they don't even know how to use any engine braking? Are they stupid enough to believe that braking during a corner (not just before the corner) is a safe way to drive?

Most are fitted with automatic gearboxes .... not much engine braking there.

Especially with the overdrive button in ..

[MD]

Most are fitted with automatic gearboxes .... not much engine braking there.

Especially with the overdrive button in ..

The one I drove was auto and using the manual gear selection did the job reasonably well slowing it into corners, enough to not have to burn out a set of brake pads, as we often see dim witted drivers doing on the local Hill.

Come on people I started this to annoy people and bring out the inner bitch in all of us.

[george formby]

I've come to the conclusion that the more highly specced the SUV, the more you have to be on your guard. I was passenger in a new Landcruiser VX yesterday, one helluva machine.
I noticed..

1. The air con controls are on the dash beside the passenger, the driver has to lean across to use them. The passenger is not allowed to touch. ANY of the controls.

2. It's almost silent. No sensation of the outside world.

3. At the end of the bonnet is a tube twice as thick as a scaffolding pole. It has an air of offense, not defense, about it.

4. I learned that taking up 2 parking spaces at the super market avoids getting door dents. Go figure?

5. It goes like a 3 tonne cut cat, hauls up like the QE2's anchors & does not roll in corners. A whiff of invincibility about it.

6. It has no key.

7. It is in the best interest of other road users to get out of the way.

8. Other road users will not win unless they are truck drivers.

9. Truck drivers are inconsiderate road hogs. Or words to that effect.

10. The white line, or yellow, is a suggestion.

I imagine that the BMW or Audi equivalent is far worse.

If I win lotto I'm going to buy a Scania with bad brakes so I can do some full contact driver education lessons. Exclusively in my lane.

[Ocean1]

I imagine that the BMW or Audi equivalent is far worse.

Never driven the X5, friend says his brother's is "innocuous". The Audi Q7 is a nice drive but for sheer worseness you can't go past the Land Rover Disco. I'll own one at some stage.

[george formby]

Never driven the X5, friend says his brother's is "innocuous". The Audi Q7 is a nice drive but for sheer worseness you can't go past the Land Rover Disco. I'll own one at some stage.

Cobblers. A Range Raper Sport.

Don't seem to be enough on my side of the road to have gained my wrath, though.

Those big Audis & Beemers have no lane discipline & rubbish mirrors. I've also noticed the person driving at me is wearing a shirt & talking on a mobile.

Bring on the Scania!!

[Ocean1]

A Range Raper Sport.

Same vehicle. Different trim.


Those big Audis & Beemers have no lane discipline & rubbish mirrors. I've also noticed the person driving at me is wearing a shirt & talking on a mobile.

Poor decisions in vehicle selection are usually synonymous with poor behaviour in other areas.

[SMOKEU]

Most are fitted with automatic gearboxes .... not much engine braking there.

Especially with the overdrive button in ..

I've had auto vehicles before and the engine braking is still fine if the driver knows how to move the lever from 'D' to '2' or whatever suits the vehicle best. Good driving should not cause the occupants of every other vehicle in the vicinity to smell the burning brakes before they can see the vehicle.

[FJRider]

I've had auto vehicles before and the engine braking is still fine if the driver knows how to move the lever from 'D' to '2' or whatever suits the vehicle best.

Therein lies the actual truth. They either don't know you can ... or they're just too dam lazy to do so.

[Tazz]

Most of the people you're seeing are just bad drivers....the car has nothing to do with it. I follow rental Corolla hatch backs around the Queen Charlotte that can't corner without just about going off the other side of the road every week, and then they peg it on the little straights (a lot are good enough to pull in for you though which is cool.)


It's the 215/7500/15" tyres they're encumbered with.

I just replaced the ones on t'van with some new 17" wheels and 225/55/17 tyres.

Fookin' Huuuuge difference, you don't have to wait for the fuckers to roll off the rims before you actually begin to navigate a corner. I swear the tread on the old tyres was good as new, the sidewalls were down to air.

I hear ya. I took a rental campervan up to Auckland last year, a Hiace, and that thing was fawking scary on the corners at any pace other than slow motion. I drove with SAT's on my Safari for a while and they were 100 times better, which shouldn't be possible :/


The muppets in their SUVs over the Akaroa hill are so stupid that I can smell their burning brakes long before I can see them. Are people that incompetent that they don't even know how to use any engine braking? Are they stupid enough to believe that braking during a corner (not just before the corner) is a safe way to drive?

When we first moved to Akaroa this happened to my mum, in a Honda-matic :lol: Had to stop just before Barrys Bay, using the hand brake. She just didn't know how to drive to suit hills like that. In her defence the car was loaded up with the kitchen sink and that was the first and last time she had that problem.


Most are fitted with automatic gearboxes .... not much engine braking there.

Especially with the overdrive button in ..

Nah autos are fine on hills. You just need to know how to drive/pay attention.

[FJRider]

...Nah autos are fine on hills. You just need to know how to drive/pay attention.

They are ... and many don't ...

[Rhys]

Most modern autos change down gear going down hills or braking

[Brett]

I am seldom overtaken when driving my 1996 Prado diesel. Never in the twisties. I do not recall even once. Yes they understeer and will oversteer when pushed too hard - especially in the wet and you have to be careful of the weight transfer given the soggy, body rolling suspension. However, take time to learn how to turn them and you can still be safely quick on the road. There is no excuse for those SUV 4x4 driving clowns out there who can't stay in their lane or hold up the flow of traffic. It's just incompetence.

[FJRider]

I am seldom overtaken when driving my 1996 Prado diesel. Never in the twisties. I do not recall even once. Yes they understeer and will oversteer when pushed too hard - especially in the wet and you have to be careful of the weight transfer given the soggy, body rolling suspension. However, take time to learn how to turn them and you can still be safely quick on the road. There is no excuse for those SUV 4x4 driving clowns out there who can't stay in their lane or hold up the flow of traffic. It's just incompetence.

The incompetence of the majority makes the prospect of overtaking one .. just not worth the risk.

If the gain from overtaking is minimal ... its just not worth the risk.

[slowpoke]

What a fuckin' load of shit. Jaysus, why dontcha just find a nice innocuous public toilet where ya can just suck each other's knobs and slap each other on the back while ya do it. Really? SUV's? Are you really going to argue that SUV's are a problem on the hill? Are you really going to be so willfully blind that SUV's somehow swerve across the centre line to kill biker's....when other car's seem to have no problem whatsover avoiding them despite taking up 3 times as much room? Are you really going to be that stupid?

Of course you are! You are bikers! You are blessed with the collective skills and knowledge of Stroud, Harris, Briggs, Malloy, Hiscock and co which are included in the purchase price of every 2 wheeled conveyance. Hurrah for bikers!

Funnily enough all the accident stats point to 4 wheeled vehicles connecting with bikes mostly at intersections. Hands up all those who've had an accident at an intersection on the Rimutaka's! Hmmm, hard to believe but there are no raised hands.....I wonder if that's because there no intersections.....

The stats also point to 25% of bike accidents being single vehicle in nature....that means there are no cars, no trucks and NO SUV'S involved! It's just a rider running out of road/skill/knowledge/stopping distance and spearing off into the shrubbery/guard/rail/oncoming vehicle etc. It's a wild guess but I'm thinking this stuff doesn't happen at 50kph on suburban streets.....now it's revolutionary clear sky thinking but this stuff might, just might, be happening on those bits of road with a few twisties that we enjoy winding up the wick.

I don't know how many times I've been over that hill on car and bike and shaken my head at the 2 wheeled goobers who think they are at Manfeild. The number of bike crashes I've driven past far FAR outnumber the car crashes I've seen, and it was a TSS (?) sign that used to sit at the top of the hill advertising bike pick ups, not a car salvage business. What does it take for the penny to drop for you people?

Fuckin' wake up to yourselves: get outside the city and it's mostly going to be bikers killing themselves completely and utterly unaided. Or go back to burying your head in your mates groin as you continue to blindly revel in your misplaced superiority.

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html

[Akzle]

25% of bike accidents being single vehicle in nature....

get outside the city and it's mostly going to be bikers killing themselves completely and utterly unaided.

25% = 'mostly'
...?

Sounds like you need a blowie.
Chill!

[MD]

What a fuckin' load of shit. Jaysus, why dontcha just find a nice innocuous public toilet where ya can just suck each other's knobs and slap each other on the back while ya do it. Really? SUV's? Are you really going to argue that SUV's are a problem on the hill? Are you really going to be so willfully blind that SUV's somehow swerve across the centre line to kill biker's....when other car's seem to have no problem whatsover avoiding them despite taking up 3 times as much room? Are you really going to be that stupid?



I hear what you're saying but you missed the point of my OP. I and I would guess a fair few riders accept that what we do is simply dangerous but that's our passion. Motorcyclists don't seem to be the folk that want to go through life wrapped in cotton wool. I'm also not saying SUVs are wiping us out on the hill. They're not, they're just forcing us to allow for their incompetence. I accept and allow for wide trucks that need more room to take a tight corner. My point is WE SHOULD NOT have to allow for $%#& SUV drivers to also be unable to take 4 out 5 corners on a hill without crossing the centreline and especially for an unacceptably long period.

The Piecock Hill is the worse. I have on numerous times meet a SUV coming around a bend towards me on my side of the road, but the bit that totally pisses me off is the driver makes barely any effort to correct his failing and get back to the correct side of his road. They literally make eye contact to say, I don't care I demand more road space so you better get out of my way. Drivers have actually continued onto the straight section coming out of bends and refused to alter their line, forcing me to move further to my left. I just can't fathom why drivers would be so inconsiderate and deliberately endanger others and for my observations it's 9 out 10 times a SUV

[Berries]

What a fuckin' load of shit..............................
Go on, tell us how your day went. Sounds like you had a bad one.

[Brett]

Fuckin' wake up to yourselves: get outside the city and it's mostly going to be bikers killing themselves completely and utterly unaided. Or go back to burying your head in your mates groin as you continue to blindly revel in your misplaced superiority.

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~john/vfr/hurt.html

This is somewhat true. Many/most motorcycle crashes I have witenessed or that have occured to those I know have been 100% rider error.

[mstriumph]

..........................

Am I overlooking another factor or could it just simply be as I've often said, most SUV owners are wankers

Just most? :shutup: