Suzuki GSX-R250R modification?

[The Little Gixxer]

So I brought a 1989 Suzuki GSXR 250R GJ72A. It goes fairly well but I am making a few adjustments that I would like some help with.

For starters I brought it with no fairings so the front end is looking a bit dodgy so I am making something up to replace it but am unfamiliar with the laws in relation to what I can and can't do with custom headlights and indicators. So the basic idea is in this clip (yes it is a hayabusa but hey I like to have fun) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRwwqSESEk .

In saying this custom dials or something like that would be good but am wondering what I can do away with. The current Fuel gauge is broken so go by km on the odometer so maybe cut back to just the two dials, would this be a workable solution? And legal?

Next is to get more air through the engine. The boys at work would love to custom build a turbo for it but I think this might be asking for trouble so maybe replace the original box with K&N intakes and do something with the exhaust and carbs but not sure what and where to start as no-one seems to have done anything like this (probably because it isn't worth it really but I like to muck around with my ride)

So yeah bit of a starting spiel but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[FJRider]

For starters I brought it with no fairings so the front end is looking a bit dodgy so I am making something up to replace it but am unfamiliar with the laws in relation to what I can and can't do with custom headlights and indicators.

In saying this custom dials or something like that would be good but am wondering what I can do away with. The current Fuel gauge is broken so go by km on the odometer so maybe cut back to just the two dials, would this be a workable solution? And legal?

Next is to get more air through the engine. The boys at work would love to custom build a turbo for it but I think this might be asking for trouble so maybe replace the original box with K&N intakes and do something with the exhaust and carbs but not sure what and where to start as no-one seems to have done anything like this (probably because it isn't worth it really but I like to muck around with my ride)

So yeah bit of a starting spiel but any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

1. Custom fairings and lights are legal.

2. Dials fitted and working are your choice.

3. More air to the engine alone makes it lean. Not good. More air and fuel makes a bigger bang in the cylinders ... and the really big bang comes later. To get ANY reasonable increase in power needs $$$$$ / time. With a (very) shortened engine life span.



If you want more power ...buy a bigger cc bike. Easier and cheaper long term.

[EJK]

Sell your bike and buy this. Best performance upgrad ever.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=693876285

[bogan]

Custom headlights/fairing and dials are all good, as long as they do the job they need to. If you're ebaying lights, be aware some reflectors are LHD or RHD. Power, I'd recomend getting into tuning on something a lot easier, the era of screaming 250s were pretty damn good power wise, and pretty damn hard to tune em right, from what I've heard anyway.

[SMOKEU]

Don't waste too much money on it with "performance" mods that give minimal (if any) gains in power, especially on a bike that's not worth much come upgrade time. If you start fucking around with removing the airbox and replacing it with aftermarket intakes it will probably won't make any noticeable difference, except to your wallet. If you want to go faster, then buy a bigger bike.

[Tazz]

Turbo. You have to turbo :bleh:

[R650R]

Save your money for the next bike or trade it now for an RGV250

I had one of these Blind Man's Dream bikes, FZR250 Exup 18000rpm. Did fish and chip delivery on it, spent all my wages just on the upkeep.
These little four cylinder screamers are bigger money pits than their bigger brothers. I'd say at that year/age it prob needs a valve grind at the least.
Not sure if any of the 400cc bikes are LAMS approved but I went up to a ZXR400 after the Yamaha and it was awesome but manageable.

[The Little Gixxer]

Ok so general consensus:

Fairings etc all good but air intake no good unless lots of money spent.

So Turbo is the way to go then.

Does anyone know of someone with a bit of experience in this who could help with this? Failing that I can just let the boys from work at it, I do have a spare engine as well so will be using that as a dummy until it is running correctly.
Thanks

[SMOKEU]

Ok so general consensus:

Fairings etc all good but air intake no good unless lots of money spent.

So Turbo is the way to go then.

Does anyone know of someone with a bit of experience in this who could help with this? Failing that I can just let the boys from work at it, I do have a spare engine as well so will be using that as a dummy until it is running correctly.
Thanks

What are you trying to achieve here exactly? Turbocharging that bike is going to cost far more than the bike is worth if you want it to be even semi reliable and legal. If you don't care if the engine blows up after a very short time then by all means chuck a turbo on it, but don't be surprised if it melts a piston or spits a rod out of the block if it's not properly set up for it.

You'd be better off getting the bike into a good running order, and spending as little on it as possible (but still maintain it properly), and save all that money for your next bike. Even a 15 year old 600cc Japanese sports bike will be much quicker than a turbo 250 (unless you spend many thousands of $ on the 250). Just ride the fucking thing and one day you'll have enough cash for a decent bike.

[Laava]

Ok so general consensus:

Fairings etc all good but air intake no good unless lots of money spent.

So Turbo is the way to go then.

Does anyone know of someone with a bit of experience in this who could help with this? Failing that I can just let the boys from work at it, I do have a spare engine as well so will be using that as a dummy until it is running correctly.
Thanks

Don,t waste your money on engine mods. Do the cosmetic stuff to your satisfaction. If you are after performance you should buy a bigger bike.

[The Little Gixxer]

Hmm seems like you all want me to just buy a bigger bike and yes that makes sense but I don't think I will be giving up the idea of a Turbo Screamer. I will do the cosmetic stuff and start working some little things and see what happens next. After all I have a whole spare to work on. Will have to keep a photo log if I do and then see some of those bigger bikes for some fun I suppose.

[bogan]

Reckon you'll need more'n just one spare engine if you wanna do the turbo thing properly.

Also, won't a turbo on such a high revving bike result in brutal turbo lag?

[FJRider]

Hmm seems like you all want me to just buy a bigger bike and yes that makes sense but I don't think I will be giving up the idea of a Turbo Screamer. I will do the cosmetic stuff and start working some little things and see what happens next. After all I have a whole spare to work on. Will have to keep a photo log if I do and then see some of those bigger bikes for some fun I suppose.

The standard factory turbo bikes actually have a low compression ratio ...to allow for the increased pressure when the turbo kicks in. To not have this lower compression ... will mean the original design limits your bike was built to meet will be met (and exceeded the minute you get past idle) Please google 250 cc factory turbo bikes ... :msn-wink:

Good luck with that ... :rolleyes:

[blackdog]

Fuck yes turbo it. Then squirt a few ounces of NOS up it half way down your first run on a quarter mile.

Make sure there are alot of cameras.

And paramedics.

[FJRider]

Fuck yes turbo it. Then squirt a few ounces of NOS up it half way down your first run on a quarter mile.

Make sure there are alot of cameras.

And paramedics.

And steel lined underpants ... to be safe ... (it does get in)

[caspernz]

Don't waste too much money on it with "performance" mods that give minimal (if any) gains in power, especially on a bike that's not worth much come upgrade time. If you start fucking around with removing the airbox and replacing it with aftermarket intakes it will probably won't make any noticeable difference, except to your wallet. If you want to go faster, then buy a bigger bike.

Yep, old small bore bike...anything along the lines of performance improvements is akin to the bottomless pit :eek:

[Katman]

The GSXR was the worst of the 4 cylinder 250s.

Don't waste your money any further.

[Mike.Gayner]

Ok so general consensus:

Fairings etc all good but air intake no good unless lots of money spent.

So Turbo is the way to go then.

Does anyone know of someone with a bit of experience in this who could help with this? Failing that I can just let the boys from work at it, I do have a spare engine as well so will be using that as a dummy until it is running correctly.
Thanks

How the fuck did you get THAT message from what people said?

[SMOKEU]

Do a skid or a wheelie and post up the video.

[The Little Gixxer]

How the fuck did you get THAT message from what people said?

No-one said no to the turbo at that stage. Still will do my research otherwise there are other ways to go to create a suicidal 250 on a quarter.

And at the end of the day I was asking for help in doing it not whether or not you agreed.

[caspernz]

No-one said no to the turbo at that stage. Still will do my research otherwise there are other ways to go to create a suicidal 250 on a quarter.

And at the end of the day I was asking for help in doing it not whether or not you agreed.

Wrong forum bro. Bikes of that vintage don't do well when the "mutton dressed as lamb" intent comes along...:wari:

[Laava]

I have a better idea. Get four of them and spend the money crafting a crankcase to graft them all together to make a one liter v16. Then we will be impressed! Well, I will

[caspernz]

I have a better idea. Get four of them and spend the money crafting a crankcase to graft them all together to make a one liter v16. Then we will be impressed! Well, I will

Nah, lengthen the frame. Put four of them in behind each other, hydraulic pump on each one. Dark side the rear end and sell it on Trademe.

[SMOKEU]

No-one said no to the turbo at that stage. Still will do my research otherwise there are other ways to go to create a suicidal 250 on a quarter.

And at the end of the day I was asking for help in doing it not whether or not you agreed.

Those engines are already very highly tuned from the factory. Unless you're willing to spend more money on the bike than it's worth, you're either going to end up with:
1. Minimal performance gains that are barely noticeable.
2. A decent power increase, until it blows up a few days later.

If you want to go for a turbo setup that lasts more than a short thrash, then you will need to build the engine up properly with new pistons, rods, etc. By the time it's all been set up properly, you're looking at $5k+. Finding a small enough turbo is also going to be a hassle, unless you're willing to put up with severe turbo lag which will make the bike a cunt to ride. It's a fucking huge job to do it properly, and there's no simple way to do it.

If you absolutely must turbo a bike, buy a cheap single cylinder dirt bike to fuck around with. That way when you blow it up you won't lose much money.

[EJK]

By any chance are you Chaos Rider's brother? I remember a certain thread 4-5 years back... "Evolution of a monster" I think....

Anyhow this has to be a troll, cause no fucktard is ever this stupid. :facepalm:

[The Reibz]

$5000 - 8000 to turbo that bike. 250's have been turbo'd before with small daihatsu turbos (charade 3 cyl motor) or possibly even a turbo for a honda city (if you can still find one).

It will have to be converted to EFI and run a liquid to air cooling system (or meth injection). All parts will have to be custom fabricated.

If your deadset on getting a turbo bike save your coin for a busa than kit it out with RCC stage 1 kit. You can put it together in a weekend then all it needs is a tune.

I have 15k budgeted for my build this year which I will hopefully start around the end of winter.



Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do with your bike, if your dead set on making something work WITHIN THE LAW. Then do it, its your bike

[SMOKEU]

It will have to be converted to EFI and run a liquid to air cooling system (or meth injection). All parts will have to be custom fabricated.



It could be turbocharged with carbies, so it doesn't really need EFI. Either way it's still going to cost at least double the value of the bike.

[The Reibz]

It could be turbocharged with carbies, so it doesn't really need EFI. Either way it's still going to cost at least double the value of the bike.

I wouldn't trust a turbo with carbs on a motor that small. Shit will go boom.
OP should really just save for a busa

[SMOKEU]

I wouldn't trust a turbo with carbs on a motor that small. Shit will go boom.
OP should really just save for a busa

Pretty much.

[The Reibz]

Don't let anyone tell you what you can't do with your bike, if your dead set on making something work WITHIN THE LAW. Then do it, its your bike

I will have to retract this statement. I'm reading the chaos rider thread. Somethings just shouldnt be done

[The Little Gixxer]

Yes there are definately some things that just shouldn't be done. I didn't really think turboing a 250 was that big an issue or one of those things.

So the gist of the conversation goes:

Yes you can do it but only because you are either an idiot or have very deep pockets. I am neither of these and was looking for some help.

The crux is that either it will be done or not, if I do it then it would be a fun and crazy build wouldn't you agree at least to that?

So I shall leave this thread for a fair while until I have something of more value to say, although I will stick around once the cosmetics are all done to see if at least that part might fit.

I also have something else I could do to it which would raise even more eyebrows but due to the recent reactions I shall keep that to myself until it is built.

Thanks for the comments, the dissing and general put downs.

We shall meet again.......

[SNF]

http://fzr250.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3409

Okay so its a Yam rather than a Suzuki, but it is/was a 250cc ( bored out and a bunch of other custom shit?) Which apparently does an almost 10 second quarter mile. Huge amount of money and work.

Slot in a 400cc motor in it if you really want, that would be easiest to get it to move. There was a 250cc Suzuki on Tm with a 400c impulse motor. That would fly!

Personally I'd do up the fairings, aftermarket exhaust, sticky tires and then just and ride it. Its a 250. Mine is too, I accept it for what it is, I couldn't give a fuck if the 4-600cc guys fly past me, its a road sports bike not a track spec super bike. As long as I'm happy with the end result when it looks sounds and runs good, I'll be happy. That's only what I think though.

If you did make it turbo/did a 400cc swap I'd be impressed, props to you. But really are you sure you want to go to all this effort when you can just get a bigger faster bike?

[blackdog]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3p_3hUJEuZ3xs-Ru6Ha116dWdfTgBHMOKPApZy_LyS1wOWCAs

[ducatilover]

$5000 - 8000 to turbo that bike. 250's have been turbo'd before with small daihatsu turbos (charade 3 cyl motor) or possibly even a turbo for a honda city (if you can still find one).
IHI RHB31. Smallest common turbo you can find.

It will have to be converted to EFI and run a liquid to air cooling system (or meth injection). All parts will have to be custom fabricated. No it won't. You can run carbs with a turbo, reliably and flexible, you wouldn't be running north of 6 psi on a 250 screamer anyway as it'd spit the rods even faster.

Turbo on it = very high boost threshold and a fair amount of lag.
You'll need some boss fab skills, oil lines, BOV, external wasegate with a soft spring, boost controller, rising rate fuel pressure reg, low pressure fuel pump (a small Holley one will do), somebody who has access to machines to cut flanges.
You need to run 1-2psi more fuel than boost pressure at all times, hence the RR FPR.
You need to get the length and diameter of the bowl vent tube correct in the air intake, otherwise it'll never be able to be tuned well (fairly easy to do however)
You'll need a bucket for the bottom end when it flies apart.


What I would do (I just got a GSF250 screamer for lulz myself), if the bike isn't a complete shitheap, valve clearances, carb clean/balance, new OEM air filter (they're fucking cheap), new plugs, new leads.
I wouldn't go any further than that, unless you have the audacity to think you know better than a company who can pull 45hp out of a 250? By chucking individual pods on it, you will lose any "bottom end power" it has and gain absolutely nothing up top, why? Because it has CV Mikunis, with flat slides, these rely on still air in the airbox, and the airbox is tuned to a compromise in the frequencies of the intake pulses within certain rev ranges. Unless you reckon you know more than that, leave the wee thing alone.

Spend some time on the brakes/suspension. These are fucking crap on them, so may as well sort them.

Or buy a nicer bike when you can and improve that to suit?

I may have modified a bike once and know how stupid you can get and begin to ruin a once excellent machine. :rolleyes:

[ducatilover]

I wouldn't trust a turbo with carbs on a motor that small. Shit will go boom.
OP should really just save for a busa

Find someone who can set it up them, it's perfectly fine.

[98tls]

Wrong forum bro. Bikes of that vintage don't do well when the "mutton dressed as lamb" intent comes along...:wari:

:Oi:Leave out with the "mutton dressed as lamb" eh:laugh:

[The Reibz]

Looks like its been done.
http://feralinjection.com/cbr/Turbo2.html

[ducatilover]

Looks like its been done.
http://feralinjection.com/cbr/Turbo2.html

Haven't seen that in ages. Has he finished the beast? I reckon you'd get a solid 60whp from a turbo 250/4. Once.
And then it'll still be fuckin slow :brick:

[R650R]

This thread has reminded me about the Fast Bikes mag turbo Blade, epic at the time with 185BHP and 185KG but now you can buy that performance of the showroom floor with a warranty and lighter.
If that Suzuki is anything like the others, ditch the end can for something home made to instantly save about 10kg in weight, ditto on the fairings except the front one.

A really good option would be to get on of the old F3 class FZR400 or ZXR400 bikes that had been setup to run on methanol before they banned it. BTW those engines were highly tuned, idled at about 6000rpm and made 75-80hp Methanol is probably cheaper than petrol now, even if the engine uses twice as much.
Put your GSXR stickers and number plate on the outside and you'll be sweet. Side by side its near impossible to tell those 400 from 250 fours. :)

[Vinz0r]

If you want a fast 250, buy a 2 stroke. If you want to do some fun modding get an NSR and the 300cc conversion kit. That'll keep you busy for awhile and it's possible that you won't blow it up :D. Turboing your crappy old GSXR is a huuuuge waste of time and money. Everyone has told you this, so perhaps you should take a hint and listen to good advice when it's offered.

[The Little Gixxer]

So does this engine fit the bill for moving to a 400 in the frame?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-696032775.htm

What if I retune my 250 to run on methanol?

[SMOKEU]

So does this engine fit the bill for moving to a 400 in the frame?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-696032775.htm

What if I retune my 250 to run on methanol?

No!

That 400cc frame has major gearbox problems as stated in the auction. This alone is a big risk unless you know exactly what's wrong AND how much it's going to cost to fix. You will still have to have the engine fitted to the bike, as well as any electrical wiring that needs doing. I doubt the 400cc engine will bolt straight into the frame without some modifications at least, and then you have to get it certed if you want it to be legal. By the time all that is done properly, it will cost you the entire value of the bike.

Getting your bike converted to methanol is pointless. It's going to cost you a very significant amount of the value of the bike for little gain.

Just ride the fucking bike, and save your money for a better bike instead of all these mods you want to do. You'd be a fool to start spending any more on that bike than you have to, other than servicing and other basic maintenance.

[Mike.Gayner]

So does this engine fit the bill for moving to a 400 in the frame?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-696032775.htm

What if I retune my 250 to run on methanol?

Please just stop.

[Vinz0r]

So does this engine fit the bill for moving to a 400 in the frame?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/complete-engines/auction-696032775.htm

What if I retune my 250 to run on methanol?

No longer sure if you're serious. or just taking the piss.

I'm out.

[FJRider]

No!

That 400cc frame has major gearbox problems as stated in the auction. This alone is a big risk unless you know exactly what's wrong AND how much it's going to cost to fix. You will still have to have the engine fitted to the bike, as well as any electrical wiring that needs doing. I doubt the 400cc engine will bolt straight into the frame without some modifications at least, and then you have to get it certed if you want it to be legal. By the time all that is done properly, it will cost you the entire value of the bike.

Getting your bike converted to methanol is pointless. It's going to cost you a very significant amount of the value of the bike for little gain.

Just ride the fucking bike, and save your money for a better bike instead of all these mods you want to do. You'd be a fool to start spending any more on that bike than you have to, other than servicing and other basic maintenance.


Swap a 400 into a 250 frame will be a half hour job at best ... and only an expert on bikes could tell ...

And you'd double the value of the bike ...

Methanol ... way to go ... you can buy it at most gas stations ..

What else could you spend your money on ... booze and chicks ...

[bogan]

That 400cc frame has major gearbox problems as stated in the auction.

One potential issue, but I think a bigger project stopper is that the auction says the engine has already been sold :laugh:

[FJRider]

One potential issue, but I think a bigger project stopper is that the auction says the engine has already been sold :laugh:

It was probably him that bought it ... ;)

Let him do it ... what harm can it do ... ?? (to us)

[SMOKEU]

Put a bigger flux capacitor on it, and some sugar in the petrol tank. It will make the bike go like it's on P.

[FJRider]

Put a bigger flux capacitor on it, and some sugar in the petrol tank. It will make the bike go like it's on P.

Nah ... just a nice reliable turbo ... :cool:

[Askor]

http://fzr250.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3409

Slot in a 400cc motor in it if you really want, that would be easiest to get it to move. There was a 250cc Suzuki on Tm with a 400c impulse motor. That would fly!

That was me!! :laugh: if anyone wants to buy it it's still for sale, will take $2100 for it I need it gone lol

On the topic of gsxr250s, ive had 2 (not including this 400 frankenstein), a few of my mates have them and I've done heaps of work on them.
They are a bitch to tune, really fussy engines, shit all power and you need to rev the piss out of them to go anywhere. Although they do sound GREAT lol.
The FZR400 is LAMS, sell your 250 and buy one of those. So much better. "there's no replacement for displacement!"

Or buy my 250/400 engine swap :msn-wink: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=680940569 details here will put it in Bike Trader too

[ducatilover]

Meth? You'll need to know your way around jets and needles, plug reading on meth is a different ball game.
I like meth...
The gixxer motors aren't any harder to tune that any other 250/4. But, they have do like to wear the needles/emulsion tubes, and cause all sorts of funny flatspots all over the place.

They only make 45hp like my bandit, and I wouldn't bother modifying the wee Bandit to get moar powah.

[SMOKEU]

Meth? You'll need to know your way around jets and needles, plug reading on meth is a different ball game.
I like meth...


Once you've tried it, you just want more and more!

[Tazz]

Meth?

I've got a cooling mist meth injection kit sitting in the garage looking for a new home...just throwing it out there :shifty:

[SMOKEU]

If you must have a "fast" GSXR250, then buy the one on here with the 400cc engine swap. If the job was done as well as advertised, you could have a fast learner bike.

[Askor]

If you must have a "fast" GSXR250, then buy the one on here with the 400cc engine swap. If the job was done as well as advertised, you could have a fast learner bike.

You cant even tell it isnt stock unless you know these bikes really well, everything is hidden behind the fairings. It even flies through warrents.

Plus the 60hp in a 138kg bike is quite fun

Shameless plug I know :2thumbsup

[The Little Gixxer]

All good the Gxr with the 400 was an almost buy for me but for now will relax on my little Gixxer.

But still the engine swap sounded good and didn't really get an answer.