ABS off-road braking test

[Gremlin]

Lets dig up an old chestnut aye? We've debated the success of ABS on road (or track) a few times already, but now, with the new KTM 1190, it has an Off Road ABS setting, where ABS only works on the front wheel and the rear is allowed to lock.

The Test: http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/17/off-road-braking-test-pro-level-off-road-racer-against-ktm-abs/

So taking Ryan Dudek (podium in Baja), put him on the KTM and see if he can beat the ABS system... turns out he can't, both in overall stopping distance and consistency.

Safe to say ABS systems are getting pretty sophisticated now...

[chasio]

Lets dig up an old chestnut aye? We've debated the success of ABS on road (or track) a few times already, but now, with the new KTM 1190, it has an Off Road ABS setting, where ABS only works on the front wheel and the rear is allowed to lock.

The Test: http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/17/off-road-braking-test-pro-level-off-road-racer-against-ktm-abs/

So taking Ryan Dudek (podium in Baja), put him on the KTM and see if he can beat the ABS system... turns out he can't, both in overall stopping distance and consistency.

Safe to say ABS systems are getting pretty sophisticated now...

Colour me impressed with his manual braking from 100km/h on those tyres on that surface.

I wonder if the gap would be as marked with knobblies?

[R650R]

With the extra travel of something like that you have pretty decent braking on gravel to start with. Would like to see same test on gravel with sports bike.
Taken me awhile to dial in on the DR just how hard I can brake the front end on gravel road, you'd be surprised and that's with 80-20 tyres fitted.
Think proper knobblies really only important for side grip.
Technology is still rushing forward.
I'd like to see an EBS style system coupled with electronic suspension control like the car/truck systems. It could sense an emergency situation by speed of brake lever travel and perhaps a vacuum sensor on the seat! :)

[paturoa]

That test was a bit of an eye opener for me.

Now KTM / Bosch have tied togeather their latest generation traction system's lean and tilt sensors, with the abs system to improve front wheel braking so that you can grab a whole bunch of front brake while in a turn and not bin it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motorcycle_manufacturers/ktm/10360469/KTM-Bosch-Motorcycle-Stability-Control-review.html

I've read a lot of keyboard warrior posts over the years that they could out brake abs. Well that may have been so, but not any more.

[Ocean1]

Off road straight line stopping distances are the least of the potential benefits. The ability to scrub speed well into a corner with more confidence the front isn't going to wash out is a far, far more attractive proposition.

[SMOKEU]

With the increasing sophistication of ABS that doesn't interfere with normal riding, I don't see why more bikes don't have ABS fitted from the factory. I'll be wanting it on my next bike.

[pritch]

I'm impressed. Usually there are some die-hard types who think they can beat ABS, although for a number of years now that possibility has existed only in their heads.
Sensible posts so far though.

That off-road KTM system that allows you to turn of the ABS on the back wheel only is clever. Now it has been done it seems obvious, but nobody thought to do it before.

[tri boy]

He seemed to use the same patch of dirt for the ABS, after clearing most of the loose stuff on the 3 non ABS tests. Just saying............

[pritch]

With the increasing sophistication of ABS that doesn't interfere with normal riding, I don't see why more bikes don't have ABS fitted from the factory. I'll be wanting it on my next bike.

IIRC the EU requirement is that all new road legal bikes will require to be fitted with ABS from 2015. So ABS will be available on virtually all road bikes but some importers here, like BlueWing(?), may import non-ABS bikes so as not to "erode their margins".

[SMOKEU]

IIRC the EU requirement is that all new road legal bikes will require to be fitted with ABS from 2015. So ABS will be available on virtually all road bikes but some importers here, like BlueWing(?), may import non-ABS bikes so as not to "erode their margins".

I just wish there was a better selection of affordable second hand sports bikes that have ABS. Seems like just the ZX10R and CBR1000RR (and their 600cc counterparts). The rest are just so expensive. In a few years it should be all good though.

[Gremlin]

I wonder if the gap would be as marked with knobblies?
Obviously knobblies would have a better chance of biting through the loose stuff, but essentially, from what he was saying, he wasn't able to modulate the brakes as efficiently as the system could, so regardless of the specifics, the more tricky the conditions, I think the more likely the system is able to beat a human (perish the thought).


With the extra travel of something like that you have pretty decent braking on gravel to start with. Would like to see same test on gravel with sports bike.
Why? How often do you come across sportsbikes on gravel? :lol: Bearing in mind of course, the bike is basically brand new, latest technology, but with the speed it's working, I'm betting the system is leaps and bounds better than the systems of the last couple years, just like paturoa mentioned the leaning and tilting factors...


He seemed to use the same patch of dirt for the ABS, after clearing most of the loose stuff on the 3 non ABS tests. Just saying............
Yeah, did notice that... You'd hope they used two different lines, or each time, or something. Still, you can see in every stop it's still sliding around, and the ABS system was more consistent.


IIRC the EU requirement is that all new road legal bikes will require to be fitted with ABS from 2015.
Only worry with this is that the EU wanted ABS non-switchable - not sure if that's still the case. So far, only the KTM off road setting would be Ok in some stuff, the rest would suck. Still, as tech progresses, we can expect wider availability and better performance.

[carbonhed]

Off road straight line stopping distances are the least of the potential benefits. The ability to scrub speed well into a corner with more confidence the front isn't going to wash out is a far, far more attractive proposition.

You'll be able to trail brake into the corner with the hand of God along for the assist. Awesome!

[Ocean1]

You'll be able to trail brake into the corner with the hand of God along for the assist. Awesome!

Don't think I could do it, dive into a corner with full picks on up front and dabbing the rear to control attitude. My instincts would stomp all over any trust my brain might have in the ABS.

[carbonhed]

Don't think I could do it, dive into a corner with full picks on up front and dabbing the rear to control attitude. My instincts would stomp all over any trust my brain might have in the ABS.

A more extreme approach than I'd imagined :laugh: But why not? Then slam the throttle to the stops and exit stage left... screaming!

When are they going to put this on the RC8R? :drool:

[Ocean1]

A more extreme approach than I'd imagined :laugh: But why not? Then slam the throttle to the stops and exit stage left... screaming!

When are they going to put this on the RC8R? :drool:

It took me years to learn how hard you could brake a dirt bike, as long as the front is turning a little it usually behaves. I often just lock the rear so I can spend all my focus on the front brake and staying over the bike.

Dunno, on a sprotsbike I'd say the only time I'd ever notice it would be when I really shouldn't have put myself there anyway.

[carbonhed]

Dunno, on a sprotsbike I'd say the only time I'd ever notice it would be when I really shouldn't have put myself there anyway.

I quite like trailing the front brake into unfamiliar corners. Put it together with the wide, late entry/late apex approach and it's really nifty on the decreasing radius suprises that can ruin your day.