Hi-viz is an idiotic fad

[pritch]

http://www.visordown.com/features/discuss-hi-vis-is-an-idiotic-fad/24473.html

[slofox]

He's dead right - in the immortal words of Gilbert and Sullivan, "When everyone is somebody, then no-one's anybody."

When everyone wears hi-viz, nobody's visible any more.

[Scuba_Steve]

He's dead right - in the immortal words of Gilbert and Sullivan, "When everyone is somebody, then no-one's anybody."

When everyone wears hi-viz, nobody's visible any more.

yep & like him I see it happening much he same as headlights (he uses helmets as example but I see it more liken to headlights of recent)

[TheDemonLord]

When I get back on my bike, I will be joining the Hi-Viz brigade.

Now I should note I think HiViz will make me look like a member of the village people which is not appealing, however my logic is this:

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible with ensuring that I am seen, then ultimately I will be better for it.

The alternative is for the government to legalise Bike-mountable RPGs, which would I am sure increase the average drivers vigilance for Bikes....

[pritch]

The headlights thing is a good analogy and relevant in other ways. My bike has two headlights, if they can't see those I suspect a Hi-Viz jacket will make fuck-all difference.

[rustyrobot]

When I get back on my bike, I will be joining the Hi-Viz brigade.


Nah - don't waste your time on fluoro hi-viz gear, you'll just blend in with all the cyclists and bored looking dudes holding stop/go signs.

You need to get yourself some EL wire and build a tron suit - that'll make you stick out for sure.

http://cdn4.fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/15.jpg

[Scuba_Steve]

Now I should note I think HiViz will make me look like a member of the village people which is not appealing, however my logic is this:

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible with ensuring that I am seen, then ultimately I will be better for it.


To which I would have to ask, then why don't you strap on some tassels & a pink tutu (effectively dress up like a harley rider) that'll get you noticed more than any "hit me I'm here vest" will

[bogan]

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible with ensuring that I am seen, then ultimately I will be better for it.

Factor in complacency though, if a highvis rider gets missed 1 time out of 10,000, compared to a normal vis rider getting missed 1 time out of 1,000; who is going to be more practiced at dealing with the miss?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hi viz or stealth?

Hi viz or stealth?

Hi Viz or stealth?

What about Hi ViZ AND Stealth?

What I want is a standard woodland camouflage (or DPM) pattern but the colours are Hi Viz Yellow, Hi Viz orange, Hi Viz pink.*

then, make a jacket/trou/posing pouch... then....

....profit.

Its a sure fire winner. I'll need a hundred grand to develop the idea, then another couple hundred k for tooling and manufacture. I should be able to get your jacket to you by the end of 2015.



*yes, just like that scene in DA ALI G MOVIE.

[James Deuce]

Nah - don't waste your time on fluoro hi-viz gear, you'll just blend in with all the cyclists and bored looking dudes holding stop/go signs.

You need to get yourself some EL wire and build a tron suit - that'll make you stick out for sure.

http://cdn4.fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/15.jpg

You leave Hitcher out of this!

[Mike.Gayner]

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible with ensuring that I am seen, then ultimately I will be better for it.

You're too bloody right DemonLord, but good luck convincing this lot. KB members live in an alternate universe where they're actually convinced hi-vis works like camouflage and is indeed less visible than dressing up like the road. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.

My personal feeling on it is that if people on bikes are going to complain about not being seen, the least we can do is make ourselves as visible as practical.

[James Deuce]

The headlights thing is a good analogy and relevant in other ways. My bike has two headlights, if they can't see those I suspect a Hi-Viz jacket will make fuck-all difference.

There was study done in NZ in the early '90s that Motorcyclist magazine have been quoting of late that concluded that white helmets were the most visible. I've had no response to the point I made about bike cops in NZ wearing plain white helmets at the time. The same study also concluded that white fairings were at the more visible end of the spectrum. Um. The Police BMWs of the time also had what looked like a plain white fairing when seen in the rearview mirror. It's neither the white helmet, nor the white fairing people were seeing, it was the fuzz, man.

[James Deuce]

You're too bloody right DemonLord, but good luck convincing this lot. KB members live in an alternate universe where they're actually convinced hi-vis works like camouflage and is indeed less visible than dressing up like the road. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.

My personal feeling on it is that if people on bikes are going to complain about not being seen, the least we can do is make ourselves as visible as practical.

A. It makes no practical difference. I've tried wearing Hi-Viz for a couple of years in the past and have worn plain black leather for the last couple of years. My conclusion is that plain black leather is more visible than fluoro green or orange. The lack of near misses at intersections is marked when wearing black leather, because people wearing hi-viz are pussies. In the public eye of course. The only way to practically improve the situation is to wear a white flip-front helmet, ride a bike with a white fairing, and have a pole at the rear of the bike with a lunchbox shaped like a blue police light on top.

B. I don't compain about not being seen. I've investigated the neuroscience behind the phenomenon and have concluded that the only thing that will fix it is training people to look. Your eye to brain connection does not work the way you think it does.

[swbarnett]

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible ..., then ultimately I will be better for it.
Then sell the bike and buy a tank.

[swbarnett]

You're too bloody right DemonLord, but good luck convincing this lot. KB members live in an alternate universe where they're actually convinced hi-vis works like camouflage and is indeed less visible than dressing up like the road. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.
No, most of us are saying that NOTHING is visible to those that don't look. Much better to fit a loud pipe. Sound is not directional.


My personal feeling on it is that if people on bikes are going to complain about not being seen, the least we can do is make ourselves as visible as practical.
The only SMIDSY I've had that resulted in contact (in over 20 year of daily Auckland commuting and open road) was from behind. Good luck seeing a hi-vis vest past a 55L top box. What I did do was add two super bright LED lights to my number plate. The main thing I've done though is being much more aware of what's behind me. I've also stopped being over cautious while cornering over white paint in torrential rain; I only got hit because I was going way too slow.

[TheDemonLord]

Then sell the bike and buy a tank.

True - everything we do is a safety trade off, but let is for the sake of debate take the contrary view, that we disregarded all manner of safety gear because unless you are in a tank, you are inherently unsafe and there is no degrees of unsafe - would you consider this prudent?

The answer is no, of course not.

Now suppose I conceede that the difference between wearing a HiViz and not wearing a HiViz is extremely small - let us say it increases my visibility to other drivers by 1% - if that 1% (however small or statistically negligble) is the difference between me shitting my Kevlars (due to a close call) or shitting my wheel chair (because I am now a quadraplegic) then I will take it.

I ride a bike for many reasons (Fuel efficiency, not being stuck in traffic, Enjoyment, picking up the non-existant chicks) but just because I choose to do something that is 'riskier' does not mean I should throw all caution to the wind because 'its unsafe anyway'

That all said, I will be getting a HiViz, and you are all free to not get one - I might be the one that will be hit, I might not.

[The Reibz]

The only riders that should wear highvis are the police. It makes it alot easier to spot them with where radar/laser cannons on the side of the road. If a regular rider is standing on the side of the road taking a phone call and is wearing high vis, then I might have to slow down for no reason.

Be sensible guys, leave the high vis wearing to the police and the critters from Fulton Hogan

[HenryDorsetCase]

The only riders that should wear highvis are the police. It makes it alot easier to spot them with where radar/laser cannons on the side of the road. If a regular rider is standing on the side of the road taking a phone call and is wearing high vis, then I might have to slow down for no reason.

Be sensible guys, leave the high vis wearing to the police and the critters from Fulton Hogan

I think its been a while since this was posted. Plus any excuse.

Some of the Hi Viz jackets I have seen advertised have been pretty trick. I personlly would not want to wear a vest over top of my existing jacket I dont think.

h2YgZX9Thm0


you could get an actual Pleecemins one (minus the logos etc.)

http://www.motolegends.com/jackets/hi-vis-motorcycle-vest.html

[Kendoll]

Here's another way of looking at it, I've always worn a white leather jacket and white helmet because I thought it made me more visible.
However, last year I got a new jacket that's black leather and very fitted. Since then, not only have I had less close calls, but also more attention (not really what I was looking for but hey, they're seeing me at least!)....

My conclusion from this is, if you want to be visible get the tightest gear you can!! ;)

[Juniper]

Just like I posted in the BACC facebook.

From experiance driving (and I am a bad female driver!!) I notice bikes splittin up behind me better when they are either wearing the hi-viz or have those bullet lights.

Though in saying that I am a massive Hypochondriac and don't really want to wear it myself. I am very aware that I wear all black and have a matt black helmet. Which makes me near invisible at night/dusk. Though you can esily hear my bike from a K away and am lit up like a fucking christmas tree!!

Riders choice I say.

[Trade_nancy]

I don't like wearing Hi-viz and therefore don't. I can't buy into an argument that it is LESS visible than my black leather. I experimented...If I see a cyclist with hi-viz on as I pass, it is interesting to note that as you look in your rear view mirror (car or bike) - with a quick glance 20,50,100 200, 1000 metres on...- the hi-viz vest remains a point that my eye sees more easily than other objects such as the bike, road sign or whatever. I believe it to be unfashionable rather than that it doesn't work.
Take a look at your overgrown lawn and see how many long headed green/brown weeds catch your eye - compared to yellow-headed dandelions etc. Bright yellow stands out. Makes sense that a rider will also if wearing it. But please don't make me wear it!!!

[swbarnett]

True - everything we do is a safety trade off, but let is for the sake of debate take the contrary view, that we disregarded all manner of safety gear because unless you are in a tank, you are inherently unsafe and there is no degrees of unsafe - would you consider this prudent?

The answer is no, of course not.
Dead right, I wouldn't. My father, on the other hand, rode in the 1950s. The minimum level of protection worn by the average rider today is way beyond what he wore then.


Now suppose I conceede that the difference between wearing a HiViz and not wearing a HiViz is extremely small - let us say it increases my visibility to other drivers by 1% - if that 1% (however small or statistically negligble) is the difference between me shitting my Kevlars (due to a close call) or shitting my wheel chair (because I am now a quadraplegic) then I will take it.
I agree with the general principle of this. However, there is great debate as to where to draw the line. Most of us in the anti hi-vis camp are just wanting to maintain the right to chose our own place to put it.


I ride a bike for many reasons (Fuel efficiency, not being stuck in traffic, Enjoyment, picking up the non-existant chicks) but just because I choose to do something that is 'riskier' does not mean I should throw all caution to the wind because 'its unsafe anyway'
I agree except for the last few words. As is noted in my sig. motorcycling is not 'unsafe anyway'.


That all said, I will be getting a HiViz, and you are all free to not get one
Indeed, as long as we are free to choose we'll both be happy. My fear is that this situation won't last for ever.



BTW: Do you wear a back-protector?

[bogan]

From experiance driving (and I am a bad female driver!!) I notice bikes splittin up behind me better when they are either wearing the hi-viz or have those bullet lights.

Therin lies the rub, as they say. Noticing bikers better, is different from noticing them at all, or not. It would make sense that things you can see better, are more likely to be seen at all, but in this case there are so many other factors that is not necessarily the case.

[swbarnett]

Take a look...
This, of course, cuts to the crux of the matter. Most drivers don't.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I have a set of googly eyes on the back of my helmet. the theory is the same as for those butterflies, turtles and other insects that have spots that look like eyes. If the predator thinks you are looking at them then they will be less likely to predate upon you.

Evolution 101, bitches.


I have a couple spare pairs of googly eyes I can send people to try. They're self adhesive. a bit bigger than an old style 20c piece, a bit smaller than an old style 50c piece.

[The Reibz]

I think its been a while since this was posted.
Personally I prefer "100 miles and runnin"
Fuck NWA are probably one of the best rap acts to come along in the last 20 years.

If you are worried about not getting seen, paint your bike high vis. Hunters still manage to shoot each other even with orange camo beanies.

High vis is not the holy grail of safety

[HenryDorsetCase]

Here's another way of looking at it, I've always worn a white leather jacket and white helmet because I thought it made me more visible.
However, last year I got a new jacket that's black leather and very fitted. Since then, not only have I had less close calls, but also more attention (not really what I was looking for but hey, they're seeing me at least!)....

My conclusion from this is, if you want to be visible get the tightest gear you can!! ;)

I've got a pour-on latex catsuit, would that be OK?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Personally I prefer "100 miles and runnin"
Fuck NWA are probably one of the best rap acts to come along in the last 20 years.

If you are worried about not getting seen, paint your bike high vis. Hunters still manage to shoot each other even with orange camo beanies.

High vis is not the holy grail of safety

agree. plus I have a case of the cbf's so its fun to take the piss on KB.

You do realise that NWA are more 30 years old than 20? They started in 1986 and Straight Outta Compton was released in 1988. I actually didn't get into them (or really any rap) till about five years ago when I realised it was the true successor to the punk rock that so gripped me in the late 70's early 80's.

also, I am now bored with hi viz. Do you want some googly eyes for your helmet though?

[Juniper]

I have a set of googly eyes on the back of my helmet. the theory is the same as for those butterflies, turtles and other insects that have spots that look like eyes. If the predator thinks you are looking at them then they will be less likely to predate upon you.

Evolution 101, bitches.


I have a couple spare pairs of googly eyes I can send people to try. They're self adhesive. a bit bigger than an old style 20c piece, a bit smaller than an old style 50c piece.

Post Pic please!!

[george formby]

I've often considered making my helmet more noticeable. That's the bit that sticks out & wobbles around the most.

[Voltaire]

You're too bloody right DemonLord, but good luck convincing this lot. KB members live in an alternate universe where they're actually convinced hi-vis works like camouflage and is indeed less visible than dressing up like the road. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.

My personal feeling on it is that if people on bikes are going to complain about not being seen, the least we can do is make ourselves as visible as practical.


I went Hi Viz last year and rode to work most days. I'd say most car drivers are so insulated from whats happening outside the box that they take bugger all visual information in.....some can barely take in the orange changing to red.
Relying on a passive bit of kit to help is risky, I like to take a proactive approach and keep the bastards at a distance.
I bought a 1 Tonne jacket with Hi Viz, I've seen others with them and they catch your eye as they are not just roadworkers ones. I no longer use the old type ones.

[TheDemonLord]

I agree except for the last few words. As is noted in my sig. motorcycling is not 'unsafe anyway'.

I love that quote in your Signature - I didn't actually mean that I believe motorcycling is unsafe - hence why I used the quote marks (to show this can be how others percieve it)


BTW: Do you wear a back-protector?

My Jacket has Back armour in it, but I am looking at getting a proper back Protector (possibly around the time I get a HiViz)

I see your point though - you wish to retain the right to choose.

[Scuba_Steve]

The only riders that should wear highvis are the police. It makes it alot easier to spot them with where radar/laser cannons on the side of the road. If a regular rider is standing on the side of the road taking a phone call and is wearing high vis, then I might have to slow down for no reason.

Be sensible guys, leave the high vis wearing to the police and the critters from Fulton Hogan

So if you have "hi-vis" & on a white bike are you "impersonating a police officer"?


Biggest problem surrounding Hi-Vis is... It's not supposed to move! Hi-vis is supposed to be stationary (or close to it) for it to work as intended, it also needs to be "out of place" which is currently already a problem adding to that does not help anyone especially those who need it for their job i.e. road workers

[Kendoll]

I've got a pour-on latex catsuit, would that be OK?

That's exactly what I'm talking about :Punk: Nobody will miss ya in that!

[Kendoll]

Post Pic please!!

I second that :yes:

[Juniper]

I second that :yes:

Hey and if ya going to model that catsuit.............. :cool:

[Kendoll]

Hey and if ya going to model that catsuit.............. :cool:

Haha! Not me dude, I just have the jacket... But ahh, HenryDorsetCase pics are most welcome :banana:

[imac]

Maybe we should make train drivers wear high viz so that drivers at level crossings can see them and not pull onto the tracks – and then get munted by several tonnes of locomotive

[Scuba_Steve]

Maybe we should make train drivers wear high viz so that drivers at level crossings can see them and not pull onto the tracks – and then get munted by several tonnes of locomotive

Well here's the funny thing, the front of the train is already painted "hi-vis"

... Trains are proof of how well "Hi-Vis" works; of-course it probably works better for them as it is attached to a massive steel structure seen & heard from km's away on a dedicated track, so the outstanding success it's had with trains might not be quite as perfect for bikers but hey "hi-vis" is bound to help out quite significantly none the less right <_<

[Kendoll]

Maybe we should make train drivers wear high viz so that drivers at level crossings can see them and not pull onto the tracks – and then get munted by several tonnes of locomotive


Well here's the funny thing, the front of the train is already painted "hi-vis"

... Trains are proof of how well "Hi-Vis" works; of-course it probably works better for them as it is attached to a massive steel structure seen & heard from km's away on a dedicated track, so the outstanding success it's had with trains might not be quite as perfect for bikers but hey "hi-vis" is bound to help out quite significantly none the less right <_<

Still the train's fault for hitting the car though, right? :facepalm:

[Tazz]

No amount of hi-viz will save you from 'stupid'.

[haydes55]

I wore hi vis last week for the first time. I didn't notice any difference, still had the same power, the bike still turned the same.

Didn't crash, didn't get cut off. But I haven't been cut off in months anyway.

I was wearing my hi vis t shirt under my jacket. Does that matter?

[R650R]

My conclusion is that plain black leather is more visible than fluoro green or orange. The lack of near misses at intersections is marked when wearing black leather, because people wearing hi-viz are pussies. In the public eye of course.

Yes. My driveway is close to a busy junction and sometimes backing out is dodgy. If I have to force my way out I pick a 'pussie' type motorist to pull out in front of.
One of those people who have their car headlights on in daytime or something flash are far more likely to actually brake as opposed to a falcon with mismatch panels...
Same technique in b-train at roundabouts.
Expect car drivers would think the same re what bikers are wearing as per your post.

Even on industrial sites they are not about safety but stopping theft as a proper CCTV to moniter a dark warehouse is hideously expensive. So that's the real reason they want employees wearing hi vis. And proven more by the big places where they separate orange and yellow hi vis for workers and visitors...

What we really need for awareness is lasers pointed straight ahead from bike. Cars could be fitted with an audible laser detector alarm like what fighter jets have and then no excuse for not seeing us.
Might annoy people with radar detectors though lol... :)

[pritch]

is the difference between me shitting my Kevlars (due to a close call)

You might be safer if you bought some proper motorcycle gear. :whistle:

[Scuba_Steve]

Still the train's fault for hitting the car though, right? :facepalm:

yea, but really the car should of been wearing hi-vis & had it's headlights on

[george formby]

If I have to force my way out I pick a 'pussie' type motorist to pull out in front of.
One of those people who have their car headlights on in daytime or something flash are far more likely to actually brake as opposed to a falcon with mismatch panels...
we really need for awareness is lasers pointed straight ahead from bike. Cars could be fitted with an audible laser detector alarm like what fighter jets have and then no excuse for not seeing us.
Might annoy people with radar detectors though lol... :)


Pussie? I drive with me lights on. People struggle to see my van. And your right, I would let you out. Prolly give you a wee courtesy flash to acknowledge I've seen you, too. Just hope you would not flick me the bird like so many other motorists stranded at a junction trying to get into traffic do when I give them space to pull out and a wee ect ect.

Laser idea good!

Despite the innuendo, I was serious about me helmet post. My dad made me wear one when I was learning & recently a friend learning bought one. They stick out like mutts nuts. Above cars, hedges, fences ect. And the movement attracts the eye. Very uncool looking, though.
I would be very pissed off being made to wear a hi viz jacket or vest to comply with the law. My bike is hi viz yellow already.

[Stylo]

Pussie? I drive with me lights on. People struggle to see my van. And your right, I would let you out. Prolly give you a wee courtesy flash to acknowledge I've seen you, too. Just hope you would not flick me the bird like so many other motorists stranded at a junction trying to get into traffic do when I give them space to pull out and a wee ect ect.

Laser idea good!

Despite the innuendo, I was serious about me helmet post. My dad made me wear one when I was learning & recently a friend learning bought one. They stick out like mutts nuts. Above cars, hedges, fences ect. And the movement attracts the eye. Very uncool looking, though.
I would be very pissed off being made to wear a hi viz jacket or vest to comply with the law. My bike is hi viz yellow already.

Wasn't impressed by the guy wearing the Fluro on his new Bonneville on Cashmere Rd the other morning and nearly lost it after he over took us in the car, going far too fast on the corner .

Fluro to me means "I'm new and I'm bold' hence, much caution required

[george formby]

Wasn't impressed by the guy wearing the Fluro on his new Bonneville on Cashmere Rd the other morning and nearly lost it after he over took us in the car, going far too fast on the corner .

Fluro to me means "I'm new and I'm bold' hence, much caution required

That's another valid take on it. New rider, born again rider, not as confident as I used to be rider. All to be considered.

It's a circular argument. I think freedom of choice is the main point. Personally, safety priority no 1 is to continue getting better & smarter as a rider.

[Oakie]

Haven't read the whole thread but I guess it'll be the same polarised opinions as the other Hi Viz threads.

For me, my personal choice is to wear Hi Viz in the thought that it can't make me less visible ... but I still ride like I'm wearing camo gear.

Final word ... a number of times I hear or read people slagging off Hi Viz wearers ... and the commonaity is that frequently their tirade starts with "I saw some (insert your own disparaging noun) wearing Hi Viz today and ... blah blah blah". For me, I need exlore their rant no further than their first two words ... "I saw...." That's good enough for me.

Oh ok ... this is the final word then. I was ambivalent about hi viz until one day I was riding through a shady cutting. There was a biker coming the other way and his hi viz vest registered in my brain first as something on the road ahead before I saw him or the Gold Wing he was riding. That convinced me.

[caspernz]

Final word ... a number of times I hear or read people slagging off Hi Viz wearers ... and the commonaity is that frequently their tirade starts with "I saw some (insert your own disparaging noun) wearing Hi Viz today and ... blah blah blah". For me, I need exlore their rant no further than their first two words ... "I saw...." That's good enough for me.

Oh ok ... this is the final word then. I was ambivalent about hi viz until one day I was riding through a shady cutting. There was a biker coming the other way and his hi viz vest registered in my brain first as something on the road ahead before I saw him or the Gold Wing he was riding. That convinced me.

My thinking too, there are times when I'll don the hi-viz gear and others when I'll head out in one piece mostly black leathers.

As if I give a hoot about what another rider thinks of my clothing choice...:bleh:

[skippa1]

Haven't read the whole thread but I guess it'll be the same polarised opinions as the other Hi Viz threads.

For me, my personal choice is to wear Hi Viz in the thought that it can't make me less visible ... but I still ride like I'm wearing camo gear.

Final word ... a number of times I hear or read people slagging off Hi Viz wearers ... and the commonaity is that frequently their tirade starts with "I saw some (insert your own disparaging noun) wearing Hi Viz today and ... blah blah blah". For me, I need exlore their rant no further than their first two words ... "I saw...." That's good enough for me.

Oh ok ... this is the final word then. I was ambivalent about hi viz until one day I was riding through a shady cutting. There was a biker coming the other way and his hi viz vest registered in my brain first as something on the road ahead before I saw him or the Gold Wing he was riding. That convinced me.

Your opinion isn't isn't strongly biased one way though aye

[Oakie]

Your opinion isn't isn't strongly biased one way though aye

Like everyone else probably ... I'll admit to having a firm preference. I'm comfortable with that.

[skippa1]

Like everyone else probably ... I'll admit to having a firm preference. I'm comfortable with that.

I think that's called a polarised opinion.....

high viz can indeed mean less visibility. If you see road workers, supermarket trolley collectors, charity collectors, school crossing monitors...........all wearing high viz? Not wearing it sticks out as highly visual. Fishing vessels often use black flags, they stick out on floats more than orange or yellow. Compulsory head lights should be better than high viz.....but still bikers are not seen. High viz does not cut it

also a polarised opinion

[pritch]

The original article just makes the point that it is personal choice whether we wear Hi-Viz or not, and the writer thinks it should stay that way.
He also explained how it may well be compulsory eventually. Hopefully not too soon.

[Grumph]

I think that's called a polarised opinion.....

high viz can indeed mean less visibility. If you see road workers, supermarket trolley collectors, charity collectors, school crossing monitors...........all wearing high viz? Not wearing it sticks out as highly visual. Fishing vessels often use black flags, they stick out on floats more than orange or yellow. Compulsory head lights should be better than high viz.....but still bikers are not seen. High viz does not cut it

Add burglars to that list - in ChCh at least i understand that hi vis is the costume de jour for daylight burglaries as no one sees it.....

[James Deuce]

The original article just makes the point that it is personal choice whether we wear Hi-Viz or not, and the writer thinks it should stay that way.
He also explained how it may well be compulsory eventually. Hopefully not too soon.

That, and battery powered electric bikes, will be the end of motorcycling for me.

[TheDemonLord]

You might be safer if you bought some proper motorcycle gear. :whistle:

When I loose a few kilos and get a bike that warrants a one peice set of leathers, then I will get a set.:yes:

[James Deuce]

Are you planning to go racing? If not, one piece leathers are a pain in the arse. Sometimes literally.

[skippa1]

Are you planning to go racing? If not, one piece leathers are a pain in the arse. Sometimes literally.

+1 on that shit

[nzspokes]

You're too bloody right DemonLord, but good luck convincing this lot. KB members live in an alternate universe where they're actually convinced hi-vis works like camouflage and is indeed less visible than dressing up like the road. The cognitive dissonance is mind-blowing.

My personal feeling on it is that if people on bikes are going to complain about not being seen, the least we can do is make ourselves as visible as practical.

By making yourself invisible? Human eye picks shapes at speed. Colour changes that perception. Put a rider wearing black in a hivis vest and to a quick look he is no longer a person, just a bunch of confused colours. The outline is everything.

So if you want Hi-viz, go for a full suit.

Military camo does not hide the subject, it confuses his outline.

[nerrrd]

By making yourself invisible? Human eye picks shapes at speed.

Human eye picks up movement and contrast. If a rider is directly approaching a car waiting to turn right or left into or out of a side street, he won't appear to be moving much at all.


Colour changes that perception. Put a rider wearing black in a hivis vest and to a quick look he is no longer a person, just a bunch of confused colours. The outline is everything.

That's where a colour which stands out from the background will take up the slack. And if so many people are wearing hiviz that it's commonplace, the driver won't have any problem discerning what's under the hiviz.

All of which means nothing if the driver isn't really looking all that hard in the first place, yada yada yada.

On a more serious note, just found this awesome hiviz accessory! Will also tell people if you like (rancid green) butter.

http://www.motomail.co.nz/estore/style/bubuuv.aspx

[Gremlin]

I've often considered making my helmet more noticeable. That's the bit that sticks out & wobbles around the most.
I suggest a high viz yellow helmet! Had plenty of comments about it (mostly yee gads, my eyes - but anyway). It certainly stands out, as it's an unusual colour, but after a few people have seen me on the road, it's lights that they are noticing first. A screen means a vest isn't going to be that visible either.

As mentioned, the article is simply saying, don't make it mandatory, and I completely agree. Let people choose.

I use high viz vests now and then, for events and purposes, but otherwise, day to day, no high viz for me, mostly because it affects my viewing of instruments and GPS etc.

[Slorider]

hi viz is part of my riding uniform-day&nite ones are the best as is a white helmet,definatly not a 'fad' for me

[ital916]

I'm now a firm believer that audible security is the greatest asset in increasing visibility. I have used the stebel three times proper since installation and many times giving it a quick tap to let people know I was in their blind zone as they has started changing lanes, not for want of being in a blind zone but having to as I was in a turning lane or overtaking etc. I find the horn cuts through their little bubble of seclusion being able to overpower the radio, the mobile phone or whatever the car driver is being distracted by.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you planning to go racing? If not, one piece leathers are a pain in the arse. Sometimes literally.

when I get my Hayabusa (dream bike) I do intend to spank it round a track, which will necessitate one peice leathers

[ital916]

when I get my Hayabusa (dream bike) I do intend to spank it round a track, which will necessitate one peice leathers

What. Track day riding doesn't necessitate a one piece, you can wear two piece leathers, or even two piece textiles if you want. One piece leathers unless racing are a pain in the arse to deal with and wear.

[pritch]

What. One piece leathers unless racing are a pain in the arse to deal with and wear.

Might sometimes be a pain in racing too. That would explain Rossi's ritual of tugging the leathers out of his bum as he rides up pit lane.

[george formby]

I suggest a high viz yellow helmet! Had plenty of comments about it (mostly yee gads, my eyes - but anyway). It certainly stands out, as it's an unusual colour, but after a few people have seen me on the road, it's lights that they are noticing first. A screen means a vest isn't going to be that visible either.

As mentioned, the article is simply saying, don't make it mandatory, and I completely agree. Let people choose.

.

Concur. Vests or jackest are easily obscured. An hemlet can be seen above traffic and yup, let the individual decide.

Good point in the article about responsibility being shifted from the motorist to the rider. I wonder how much lobbying insurance companies are doing to achieve mandatory hi viz. Would raise motorcycle premiums even further & minimise the cost of smidsy drivers.

A few years ago I nearly pulled out in front of a cyclist wearing a fluoro pink rain smock from a stop junction. Despite playing by the rules, stopping & looking, I really do look, too, she did not register. Been a bit ho hum on hi viz ever since.

[Trade_nancy]

I think that's called a polarised opinion.....

high viz can indeed mean less visibility. If you see road workers, supermarket trolley collectors, charity collectors, school crossing monitors...........all wearing high viz? Not wearing it sticks out as highly visual. Fishing vessels often use black flags, they stick out on floats more than orange or yellow. Compulsory head lights should be better than high viz.....but still bikers are not seen. High viz does not cut it

also a polarised opinion

Black stands out well against the whitish glare from the horizon and reflection onto and off blue/green/brown/white waves. Different set of circumstances on the highway...which is significantly black ain't it? Test your own eyes. Look at a field of view that contains several objects and allow yourself 1 second before closing your eyes. Be honest with yourself and you will have to accept as I did that bright yellow hits your eyes first and last. It's a fashion thing. I look a dork in hi-viz - therefore it is not effective.

[James Deuce]

It doesn't matter what you wear, if they don't see you they don't, mostly because people aren't trained to look. I have less SMIDSY activity wearing black leather head to toe than a bright red helmet and jacket for instance. I spot yellow in traffic because I know it signifies a motorcycle or cyclist. I pick bikes out of traffic because I'm a gearhead and bikespotter. I've trained myself to see and hear and smell them out and about in traffic. It is almost impossible to overcome bias when motorcyclists talk about looking for bikes or certain colours because you self-train to spot them.

[george formby]

It doesn't matter what you wear, if they don't see you they don't, mostly because people aren't trained to look. I have less SMIDSY activity wearing black leather head to toe than a bright red helmet and jacket for instance. I spot yellow in traffic because I know it signifies a motorcycle or cyclist. I pick bikes out of traffic because I'm a gearhead and bikespotter. I've trained myself to see and hear and smell them out and about in traffic. It is almost impossible to overcome bias when motorcyclists talk about looking for bikes or certain colours because you self-train to spot them.

Yup, it's moot. A little old dear came up to a junction I was about to ride past recently, looked a tad quick to me, she looked, saw me, (her mouth dropped & eyes widened) turned to look straight ahead again and floored it...... Would have been about 6ft between us when she sped out. You ain't gonna win against that kind of driver or their attitude.

[TheDemonLord]

What. Track day riding doesn't necessitate a one piece, you can wear two piece leathers, or even two piece textiles if you want. One piece leathers unless racing are a pain in the arse to deal with and wear.

But I want to look cool....

[James Deuce]

You will look like porridge stuffed into a condom. Not cool.

[george formby]

You will look like porridge stuffed into a condom. Not cool.

It's the "I've just shit meself & it's gone up my back a bit" walk that gets me. Legs bent, knees out, elbows akimbo. Not a good look in the dairy.

[Tigadee]

When everyone wears hi-viz, nobody's visible any more.

But how many is everyone? How many bikes are there on the road anyway to warrant the rationale that if everyone (bike rider) wears hi-viz, they'd disappear into the background?

I only see 1 bike in 50 or even 100 cars maybe, so if every biker wore hi-viz, they'd still stand out...

[Scuba_Steve]

But how many is everyone? How many bikes are there on the road anyway to warrant the fear that if everyone (bike rider) wears hi-viz, they'd disappear into the background?

I only see 1 bike in 50 or even 100 cars maybe, so if every biker wore hi-viz, they'd still stand out...

But you're totally ignoring hi-vis road signs, hi-vis road cones, hi-vis road workers, hi-vis road markings, hi-vis cops, hi-vis construction workers, hi-vis truckies etc, etc

[Tigadee]

But you're totally ignoring hi-vis road signs, hi-vis road cones, hi-vis road workers, hi-vis road markings, hi-vis cops, hi-vis construction workers, hi-vis truckies etc, etc

You ignore all those? :eek5:

Aren't we conditioned that when we see hi-viz orange, we know that there has appeared a situation where caution needs be exercised? When you see orange cones and a 30 sign, you should slow down to 30kph... If you see fellas in orange by the road side, there maybe road works and you should watch out for loose rocks or holes, etc.

If I see white, blue and yellow, I certainly slow the fark down! :laugh:

[Trade_nancy]

But how many is everyone? How many bikes are there on the road anyway to warrant the rationale that if everyone (bike rider) wears hi-viz, they'd disappear into the background?

I only see 1 bike in 50 or even 100 cars maybe, so if every biker wore hi-viz, they'd still stand out...
and..is the world invisible in daylight cos the sun illuminates all of it? No. Same with hi-viz. If everyone wears it - it still is more visible - just not unusual anymore. I still don't want to wear it; I want it to be optional - not mandatory. I remember the same sort of fuss being made when compulsory crash lids came in....people arguing they weren't any safer than beanies; some saying their necks would get broke due to the weight on their heads; people arguing just because they thought they looked dorky...

[Tigadee]

I still don't want to wear it; I want it to be optional - not mandatory.

THAT I am in agreement with... I'm just not convinced that hi-viz would lose its effectiveness if all motorbike riders had to start wearing them, as there aren't that many motorbikes on the road here day-to-day anyway to justify the rationale...

If we were in a 3rd world country where there are thousands of motorbikes on the road any time of the day, however... (but in a 3rd world country, they may not comply with road safety laws anyway) :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

You will look like porridge stuffed into a condom. Not cool.

hence why I need to loose weight first :killingme

[James Deuce]

It won't help after either. Most top level motorcycle racers are midgets or a collection of twigs, held together with titanium and carbon fibre. One piece leathers are overkill for the road. Get a good zip-together two-piece so that when you need to go to the toilet, you actually make it, instead of filling your boots.

[Scuba_Steve]

You ignore all those? :eek5:

Aren't we conditioned that when we see hi-viz orange, we know that there has appeared a situation where caution needs be exercised? When you see orange cones and a 30 sign, you should slow down to 30kph... If you see fellas in orange by the road side, there maybe road works and you should watch out for loose rocks or holes, etc.

If I see white, blue and yellow, I certainly slow the fark down! :laugh:

But we're also conditioned to acknowledge them as stationary (or at-least not moving with any significant speed) & then there's the "boy who cried wolf" part of it; we see it soo much now people are beginning to ignore it.

[HenryDorsetCase]

What. Track day riding doesn't necessitate a one piece, you can wear two piece leathers, or even two piece textiles if you want. One piece leathers unless racing are a pain in the arse to deal with and wear.

Amen brutha.

No pockets for starters.

[skippa1]

Black stands out well against the whitish glare from the horizon and reflection onto and off blue/green/brown/white .

only been to sea on nice days aye? Black flag against black clouds, black seas with no horizon in 3 + metre seas.
For all I know, you look like a dork without a high viz too.

[Trade_nancy]

only been to sea on nice days aye? Black flag against black clouds, black seas with no horizon in 3 + metre seas.
For all I know, you look like a dork without a high viz too.

8 years commercial fishing..

[quickbuck]

If I see white, blue and yellow, I certainly slow the fark down! :laugh:

Why?
That's an admission of guilt right there.....
Annoys the sh1t out of me when a drivers natural reaction is to stand on the picks as soon as they see a police car. Darn dangerous!
Even more so on a bike with a smaller tail light and all.
Yes, some drivers are half asleep with cruise control on.....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[george formby]

only been to sea on nice days aye? Black flag against black clouds, black seas with no horizon in 3 + metre seas.
For all I know, you look like a dork without a high viz too.

We used strings of floats, huge big pink things with flashing lights & flags. 3 or 5 floats, each one 3ft across & flags / lights on 6ft poles. Took us hours to find them on some lumpy days.
Another fishing related thing I learned. Bought a Hi viz, top of the line outfit for working on deck. Brilliant set of gear in every respect, pun intended. Skipper started wearing sun glasses at night when I was setting hooks...
6 months later & it was drab. There is hi viz & hi viz. Last years jacket will not stand out anywhere near as much as a new one.

[skippa1]

8 years commercial fishing..

Over 15 of fishing, commercial passenger and commercial dive skippering for me, so you should know exactly what I am talking about

[skippa1]

We used strings of floats, huge big pink things with flashing lights & flags. 3 or 5 floats, each one 3ft across & flags / lights on 6ft poles. Took us hours to find them on some lumpy days.
Another fishing related thing I learned. Bought a Hi viz, top of the line outfit for working on deck. Brilliant set of gear in every respect, pun intended. Skipper started wearing sun glasses at night when I was setting hooks...
6 months later & it was drab. There is hi viz & hi viz. Last years jacket will not stand out anywhere near as much as a new one.

Yeah they can be a bitch to find even with gps when it's shitty

[Ocean1]

Aren't we conditioned that when we see hi-viz orange, we know that there has appeared a situation where caution needs be exercised? When you see orange cones and a 30 sign, you should slow down to 30kph... If you see fellas in orange by the road side, there maybe road works and you should watch out for loose rocks or holes, etc.

Nope. Too much of it means it's ignored.

Give the responsibility back to drivers/riders and you get les accidents.

http://knowledge.allianz.com/mobilit...duce-accidents

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wi...dents-dutch-to

http://www.dw.de/european-towns-remo...er/a-2143663-1

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-448747.html

[pete376403]

Maybe we should make train drivers wear high viz so that drivers at level crossings can see them and not pull onto the tracks – and then get munted by several tonnes of locomotive

Train drivers probably do have to wear hi-viz - bus drivers around Lower hutt / Wellington do (not that it stops people walking in front of buses)

[awa355]

How many cycles has this hoary old ' Hi Viz' chestnut spun?? Must be a close second to the 'wave' threads. :argh::argh:

[manxkiwi]

Still the train's fault for hitting the car though, right? :facepalm:

Not when the car drives into the side of the train, which happens quite a lot in this country!

Personally I liked Boris' article in the latest AMCN, where he points out that no ammount of Hi vis or anything will save you. You will save you. If someone pulls out unexpetedly, that's you're fault for not expecting it. Never put your life in someone elses hands. We all know this anyway.

Obviously shit can still happen, but you have to ride for yourself and never trust anyone else on the road.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Train drivers probably do have to wear hi-viz - bus drivers around Lower hutt / Wellington do (not that it stops people walking in front of buses)

can confirm. A mate of mine is a train driver. Now works out of Perth in Straya. for twice what Kiwi rail paid him plus better OT and benefits.

[Tigadee]

Why?
That's an admission of guilt right there.....

Guilty as charged...


Annoys the sh1t out of me when a drivers natural reaction is to stand on the picks as soon as they see a police car. Darn dangerous!
Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

Wouldn't you if you happened to be above the speed limit (which sometimes happens unintentionally)? Oh wait, you think I'm slowing down from the legal speed limit! I meant I'm hitting the brakes to slow DOWN to the legal speed limit! :whistle:


Sent from my Marmite and sardine sammich

[Trade_nancy]

Over 15 of fishing, commercial passenger and commercial dive skippering for me, so you should know exactly what I am talking about

Not really - and I suspect you don't either..with regard to road safety anyhow if you think Hi-viz is not effective just because more people use it. Yes I think I do like like a dork - compared to many others. But you proved you are one by trading insults instead of using reasoned argument. Trolling?

[Tigadee]

...trading insults instead of using reasoned argument. Trolling?

Welcome to Kiwibiker... :laugh:

[skippa1]

Not really - and I suspect you don't either..with regard to road safety anyhow if you think Hi-viz is not effective just because more people use it. Yes I think I do like like a dork - compared to many others. But you proved you are one by trading insults instead of using reasoned argument. Trolling?

I think you may find that your method of judging the effectiveness is no more scientific than mine, but please, roll out your scientific proof.....

if you think these are insults....you should get out more

[quickbuck]

Guilty as charged...



Wouldn't you if you happened to be above the speed limit (which sometimes happens unintentionally)? Oh wait, you think I'm slowing down from the legal speed limit! I meant I'm hitting the brakes to slow DOWN to the legal speed limit! :whistle:


Sent from my Marmite and sardine sammich




Um, no I wouldn't..... I find that due to my experience it is actually really easy to guess what 100km/hr is.....And a good Speedo, or even better GPS confirms it. So, no it doesn't happen unintentionally.....





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Stylo]

Train drivers probably do have to wear hi-viz - bus drivers around Lower hutt / Wellington do (not that it stops people walking in front of buses)

But you never see dirt bike riders wear Hi-viz either , casualty rates are pretty high in that department.

Or for that matter, prostitutes in Manchester St in Ch Ch so, where do you draw the line ?

Rugby players ?

[Trade_nancy]

I think you may find that your method of judging the effectiveness is no more scientific than mine, but please, roll out your scientific proof.....

if you think these are insults....you should get out more
Thanks for the social advice. But I prefer to stay in with my ferret collection.
I used hi-viz when I was marathon running and road cycling and it made sense - no question I was more visible and more vulnerable. We live on a rural road as straight as an arrow for 13kms or so - and I've made a point of watching these cyclists come..and go...when I'm doing the daily walk the dog. No doubt - they are seen where without them, they would not be. Questionable in a busy city environment though....there,.. the cagers will miss anything as they have too many visuals around them.

I agree - black as a colour may at times be a more "visible" option - when combined with say a bright yellow helmet. Hi-viz vest with reflective taping must stand out in the darkness as a better option than just black. Indisputable.
I have had a good gander through this: http://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/otago033316.pdf. It's a long read but relevant and worth at least a perusal.
This study did extend to extracting data from this forum. No great conclusions were reached.

[skippa1]

Thanks for the social advice. But I prefer to stay in with my ferret collection.
I used hi-viz when I was marathon running and road cycling and it made sense - no question I was more visible and more vulnerable. We live on a rural road as straight as an arrow for 13kms or so - and I've made a point of watching these cyclists come..and go...when I'm doing the daily walk the dog. No doubt - they are seen where without them, they would not be. Questionable in a busy city environment though....there,.. the cagers will miss anything as they have too many visuals around them.

I agree - black as a colour may at times be a more "visible" option - when combined with say a bright yellow helmet. Hi-viz vest with reflective taping must stand out in the darkness as a better option than just black. Indisputable.
I have had a good gander through this: http://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/otago033316.pdf. It's a long read but relevant and worth at least a perusal.
This study did extend to extracting data from this forum. No great conclusions were reached.

So, no scientific proof then

[Trade_nancy]

So, no scientific proof then

Do u have scientific proof that you were a fisherman?

[skippa1]

Do u have scientific proof that you were a fisherman?

yes I do

Char

[bogan]

Thanks for the social advice. But I prefer to stay in with my ferret collection.
I used hi-viz when I was marathon running and road cycling and it made sense - no question I was more visible and more vulnerable. We live on a rural road as straight as an arrow for 13kms or so - and I've made a point of watching these cyclists come..and go...when I'm doing the daily walk the dog. No doubt - they are seen where without them, they would not be. Questionable in a busy city environment though....there,.. the cagers will miss anything as they have too many visuals around them.

I agree - black as a colour may at times be a more "visible" option - when combined with say a bright yellow helmet. Hi-viz vest with reflective taping must stand out in the darkness as a better option than just black. Indisputable.
I have had a good gander through this: http://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/otago033316.pdf. It's a long read but relevant and worth at least a perusal.
This study did extend to extracting data from this forum. No great conclusions were reached.

How many of those cyclists make 40+ watts of light and 80+db of noise?

Perhaps studies have been unable to reach conclusions for obvious reasons...

[Headbanger]

Meanwhile at my place of work we put tiny yellow flashing lights on quite large 50t yellow excavators so we don't accidently miss them.

Hi-VIS WORKS.....if your looking for hi-vis. If your not looking then who gives a fuck really?, Nothing is going to make a lick of difference, and fuck the government trying to tell people how to dress.

Should be able to ride down the road in my wife's nightie if I fucking wanted to.

Doubt the wife would to impressed, But that's her hang up not mine.

[Headbanger]

And as long as any large earth moving machines have little flashing lights on them I won't hit em.

[Berries]

Should be able to ride down the road in my wife's nightie if I fucking wanted to.

Doubt the wife would to impressed,
She was fine when I did it 15 seconds after you got home last night.

[swbarnett]

Hi-viz vest with reflective taping must stand out in the darkness as a better option than just black. Indisputable.
Very disputable. Especially when you consider the context in which it is worn. Hidden behind a fairing, dual plus 90 headlights and top box while hunched (even slightly) over the bars will remove any (questionable) benifit.

[Trade_nancy]

Very disputable. Especially when you consider the context in which it is worn. Hidden behind a fairing, dual plus 90 headlights and top box while hunched (even slightly) over the bars will remove any (questionable) benifit.

Still doesn't mean it is not a better option - certainly can't be less safe - just means it is limited by application. Could be better for riders of naked bikes sans top boxes. Better for faired bike riders even - if sans top boxes and not needed for Harley riders at all...they have tassels to make themselves visible.

[Trade_nancy]

yes I do

Char

Ok I forgot - I do have scientific proof then.:bleh:

[swbarnett]

Still doesn't mean it is not a better option
It really boils down to a cost-benifit analysis. For the truly paranoid amongst us the benifit outweighs the cost. For those of a more realistic disposition the benifit is not worth the cost.


- certainly can't be less safe
It can if the wearer is lulled into a false sense of security and lowers their level of situational awareness as a result. Then there's target fixation to be considered. And the type of background you happen to be in front of.

At best the jury is still well and truly out.


- just means it is limited by application.
Exactly. Even if there is a small benifit it depends on the type of riding one does.


Could be better for riders of naked bikes sans top boxes. Better for faired bike riders even - if sans top boxes and not needed for Harley riders at all...they have tassels to make themselves visible.
This, of course, is the perfect argument for keeping the wearing of hi-vis voluntary.

[Headbanger]

She was fine when I did it 15 seconds after you got home last night.

Shes cool like that.

[skippa1]

Ok I forgot - I do have scientific proof then.:bleh:

Show me yours and I will show you mine

[schrodingers cat]

If you want to make sure people see you then give them time to see you. Don’t come flying over the brow of a hill at 90mph or overtake a bus at 60mph in a 40 limit and scream at the guy that pulled out of a side turning thinking he could make it before the bus reached him. Think ahead, be cautious, consider your road positioning, visualise worst-case scenario and make sure you have an exit plan. Put yourself in the other guy’s shoes and don’t trust to these idiotic canary outfits.

Its always worth reading to the bottom of the article hmmm?

[Kawasakidude]

When I get back on my bike, I will be joining the Hi-Viz brigade.

Now I should note I think HiViz will make me look like a member of the village people which is not appealing, however my logic is this:

If I can stack the cards in my favour as much as possible with ensuring that I am seen, then ultimately I will be better for it.

The alternative is for the government to legalise Bike-mountable RPGs, which would I am sure increase the average drivers vigilance for Bikes....


Hahahaha This made my night :D

[swbarnett]

http://www.otago.ac.nz/wellington/otago033316.pdf.
Just started reading this study. I got as far as this Motorcyclists have been shown to be 23 times more likely than car drivers to be involved in a crash causing fatalities/injuries in New Zealand. Something that has been disproven time and time again. This and other bits in the first few pages show without doubt that the authors are pro hi-vis. Even then they couldn't come up with any definitive answer.

[strandedinnz]

Nice chap decided the spot where I was riding would look much better with his 4x4 in it :-(

Still after a little meeping (really need an air horn!), gesturing at myself and the retina burning fluro/hiviz waterproofs I was wearing and a little revving of engine he twigged that the spot was not vacant, panicked and swung back into the other lane almost munting the car that he was overtaking ... interestingly he must have got a fright as well since he never tried to catch up or overtake me (I'm not on a fast bike, over a hundred on a DRZ and your fillings fall out)

So where is the slot to insert coin to continue ? I want more lives!

[Trade_nancy]

Show me yours and I will show you mine

You couldn't handle that truth!

[jamesfry]

I hate hi-viz makes absolutely no difference. I ride 20,000 miles per year and have nearly been T-Boned many a time when actually wearing my very very bright icon hi viz waterproof over jacket. Which incidentally is the best looking of all the hi viz crap out there.

[Conquiztador]

Sorry if this is already in the thread somewhere: There was some research done somewhere re HiViz v. Black gear on bikers and surprisingly... the outcome was that when using black gear the bikers were shown more respect in the traffic. They got more space and tail gating was not as common.

From memory the biggest % of motorbike accidents are solo efforts. Not much a HighViz vest is gonna do there. And I think the most common one where the biker is not at fault is when a car driver pulls out from a side road/drive way/crossing. On a main road the biker will be doing 100k/h when approaching the driver who will pull out. In NZ the bike will today have their lights on. Night time the vest will make no difference here. And daytime if the driver has not seen the headlight approaching at 100k/h then a HiViz vest will have no impact.

Personally I think that the only time a HiViz vest will be seen is from the side on. And if the biker is doing 100k/h that will only be for a split second. You might also see it from behind when following a biker, but I don't think that will have much impact on safety.

Once again I would like to point out that the best option would be to use the method that was in place in the very early days of the first motor vehicles appearing on the roads: Have a man walk in front of the bike waving a red flag!

[GrayWolf]

I work in a heavy industry where its classed 'safety critical'.. people/workers along the rail corridor MUST wear high Viz and reflective clothing.

Orange vs Yellow...
Depending on location, sometimes the Orange can blend in more to the surrounding colours, certain times/places (EG long dry grass or dry grass banks) the yellow blends in more. Time of day, light conditions also effect conspicuity. So either can be more effective/less effective at certain times.

What I have found FAR more effective since fitting them has been 2 X 5watt (CREE led) spotlamps. There is a lot of literature to be read on the effect of yellow Vs blue light.. people use 'blue' headlights as they think they are brighter, they are often less, BUT blue has a greater 'glare effect' on the human eye, yellow/white light is less 'harsh' on the receptors.
I aquired a PHILIPS hi power 'ice blue' main beam bulb, (these are a recognised quality bulb) it looks far brighter to the eye head on, but throws out far LESS effective light than the standard 'projector lamp' bulb, so it's in da bin!
Rather than hi Viz? would be better to fit all bikes with LED bullets/spots or proper day running lights, not the LED 'sidelights' becoming common on cars, they dont have enough 'projection' power to really stand out.

[eelracing]

Rather than hi Viz? would be better to fit all bikes with LED bullets/spots or proper day running lights, not the LED 'sidelights' becoming common on cars, they dont have enough 'projection' power to really stand out.

Problem solved,let's just slap these stickers on all vehicles...

[TheDemonLord]

Problem solved,let's just slap these stickers on all vehicles...

But then no one would be able to drive in NZ...

[James Deuce]

But then no one would be able to drive in NZ...

Cassina's dream solution!

[Naki Rat]

I work in a heavy industry where its classed 'safety critical'.. people/workers along the rail corridor MUST wear high Viz and reflective clothing.

Orange vs Yellow...
Depending on location, sometimes the Orange can blend in more to the surrounding colours, certain times/places (EG long dry grass or dry grass banks) the yellow blends in more. Time of day, light conditions also effect conspicuity. So either can be more effective/less effective at certain times.

What I have found FAR more effective since fitting them has been 2 X 5watt (CREE led) spotlamps. There is a lot of literature to be read on the effect of yellow Vs blue light.. people use 'blue' headlights as they think they are brighter, they are often less, BUT blue has a greater 'glare effect' on the human eye, yellow/white light is less 'harsh' on the receptors.
I aquired a PHILIPS hi power 'ice blue' main beam bulb, (these are a recognised quality bulb) it looks far brighter to the eye head on, but throws out far LESS effective light than the standard 'projector lamp' bulb, so it's in da bin!
Rather than hi Viz? would be better to fit all bikes with LED bullets/spots or proper day running lights, not the LED 'sidelights' becoming common on cars, they dont have enough 'projection' power to really stand out.
Or to put it another way, when all workers, cyclists, bikers and pretty much most of the mobile population obey the Hi-vis safety propaganda the visual effect will be diluted by sheer numbers. At that point we will be 'educated' into all wearing head mounted strobe lights, and when that becomes ineffective ........ :facepalm:

Wouldn't it be more effective to educate the growing percentage of the population whose attention is on their Ipod, smartphone, screaming kids, boy racer antics, etc to focus on their primary responsibility - the safety of those around them!

[swbarnett]

Wouldn't it be more effective to educate the growing percentage of the population whose attention is on their Ipod, smartphone, screaming kids, boy racer antics, etc to focus on their primary responsibility - the safety of those around them!
Actually, no.

The only solution that has any chance of saving us is to stop worrying about whether we're being seen and concentrate on seeing.

[Conquiztador]

Actually, no.

The only solution that has any chance of saving us is to stop worrying about whether we're being seen and concentrate on seeing.

As much as I support this approach, it will soon be obsolete together with all other measures like the here debated HigViz clothing, lights on etc. The future (and it is already here...) will have us all jumping in our PTP (Personal Transport Pod) where we, after entering, inform the pod re our destination. We can then safely focus on our communication devices, on music, or even do something that is very seldom seen even today: read a book! In the very near future driving will become something for gladiators we watch participate in this ancient way of moving vehicles forward in an enclosed environment.

The human race is doomed. The main culprit here is our obsession in saving the wekest of us by medicin, by rules and by safety devices. I fully believe that if the weakest/most stupid of us were allowed to die we would, as a race, have a future.

[swbarnett]

As much as I support this approach, it will soon be obsolete together with all other measures like the here debated HigViz clothing, lights on etc. The future (and it is already here...) will have us all jumping in our PTP (Personal Transport Pod) where we, after entering, inform the pod re our destination. We can then safely focus on our communication devices, on music, or even do something that is very seldom seen even today: read a book! In the very near future driving will become something for gladiators we watch participate in this ancient way of moving vehicles forward in an enclosed environment.
Unfortunately, I think you may well be right.


The human race is doomed. The main culprit here is our obsession in saving the wekest of us by medicin, by rules and by safety devices. I fully believe that if the weakest/most stupid of us were allowed to die we would, as a race, have a future.
This is, of course, the main mechanism by which every wild species survives and improves. Something denied to the human race by the human race. Evolutionarily speaking we are already dead.