Replacing tubes when fitting new tyres

[Crasherfromwayback]

Seem to remember a few people thinking that the local stealership is once again trying to rip them off when they have new tyres fitted and get new tubes without asking.

Yes you should be informed, and not just given the bill. But here is why you should have 'em.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/9705169/Motorcyclists-death-highlights-tubed-tyres-safety-issue

[F5 Dave]

Good thread. Pertinent to Post Classic restos. Buy a bike on Tardme to remind you of your misspent yoof. Tyres are old & crappy. Should know better & replace them. But inner tubes on that old bike will have been sitting perishing for years too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yep. While we're at it. Fitting a tube that's too big cause it's all you can get. That too is a no no. Same result as the old tube for obvious reasons.

[R650R]

Find it hard to believe an adventure bike, especially one that's been on a world trip would have original tube still, would have more patches on it than Windows 8...
The same thing can happen with new tyres/tubes and tubeless with a slow leak puncture. On the move you've got centripidal force expanding the tyre and the engine shifting plenty weight to back wheel, fronts not doing much until you brake or change direction.
We don't need yet another nanny state law...
And how often does this happen in real world?

[pritch]

I would have thought from reading details of his career that Mr Wyness was a smart guy, but if he was in fact using a nine year old tyre that was definitely not smart.
That tyre would have been about as sticky as a plank of wood.

Umm and sorry, I can't remember. What form does the median barrier take at Rangiriri? Is it concrete or wire?

[danchop]

I would have thought from reading details of his career that Mr Wyness was a smart guy, but if he was in fact using a nine year old tyre that was definitely not smart.
That tyre would have been about as sticky as a plank of wood.

Umm and sorry, I can't remember. What form does the median barrier take at Rangiriri? Is it concrete or wire?
its wire slicing ropes,wherein lies the coroners ability to lay blame

[buggerit]

I wonder if he would have lived if it had been a concrete barrier rather than wire rope?Was his fatal back injury caused hitting the deck or
hitting a wire rope support post?

[F5 Dave]

. . . but if he was in fact using a nine year old tyre that was definitely not smart.
That tyre would have been about as sticky as a plank of wood.. . .

Tyre TUBE not tyre.

When we used to use tubes in Buckets & run the old Yoko 110s at 16psi to get some heat into them, they'd squirm & deform like all buggery even on a 70kg bike with <20hp but it was the only way to get grip on kart tracks. Trade off was inner tube life. they would chaff. before a 2hr we'd change the inner tubes as a matter of course & douse with talc. Those that didn't were usually over represented in the punture stats.

Some of the tubless slicks were quite rough inside, but rims prevented going tubeless. Quality of tubes varied quite a lot too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

We don't need yet another nanny state law...
And how often does this happen in real world?

Who's talking about nanny states? I'm talking about taking due care to look after your tyres/tubes in case it may help someone avoid a nasty acc. Trust me...I've seen plenty of tube horror stories over the years.

[Motu]

Omigod - that was a scary read....44 years on the road with tubed tyres, it must be a miracle that I'm still alive! I need a little lie down after that, I'm all in a cold sweat wondering how close I've come to losing my life. Not only my own life, but there are possibly hundreds of people who've died without me knowing when I changed car and bike tyres using old tubes.

[merv]

Yeah well do we agree with the conclusion of the Coroner? Basically any flat tyre when you have a tube occurs in quite quick time, so any puncture could have caused the same outcome no matter how old the tube. So what is the solution - ban all tubed tyres?

I understand though using as new a tube as you can would diminish the chance of a flat due to the chafing thing, but how that compares to the chance of getting a flat due to a nail or some other sharp object on the road I don't know - I'd guess its like a 10% to 90% chance sort of issue.

Brian was a top bloke and we discussed this crash back at the time without knowing much of the detail here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/151459-Another-motorcyclist-dies-hitting-the-wire-median-barrier

Then a question, when I last replaced the tube on the front of my XR250L, Motomart convinced me to buy a "heavy duty" tube but I have found it seems to lose air with time faster than I'm used to - is this normal for the heavy rubber type as its not something I've had so badly with "normal" tubes?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Omigod - that was a scary read....44 years on the road with tubed tyres, it must be a miracle that I'm still alive! I need a little lie down after that, I'm all in a cold sweat wondering how close I've come to losing my life. Not only my own life, but there are possibly hundreds of people who've died without me knowing when I changed car and bike tyres using old tubes.

No need to get quite so carried away about it Old Bean, you don't do sarcasm so well. But how many of your vehicles have you run tubes in that do and have done 150mph? And yes...I know the BMW in question couldn't.

[FJRider]

We don't need yet another nanny state law...
And how often does this happen in real world?

Nothing mentioned about needing to change laws ... more of Policy/Practice of the tyre industry that needs change ...

How many times does it need to happen before you decide some change is needed .. ???
Until a family member ... or a friend of yours .. suffers the same fate ... for the same reason .. maybe ...


I wonder if he would have lived if it had been a concrete barrier rather than wire rope?Was his fatal back injury caused hitting the deck or hitting a wire rope support post?

Would he have been better off hitting the car ... would that have been easier/softer option for him .. ??

[pritch]

Crasher,

What sort of percentage of bikes are now sold with tubed tyres?

[danchop]

Crasher,

What sort of percentage of bikes are now sold with tubed tyres?
easy to work out yourself isnt it?bikes that still have spokes is my guess?i dont think the tube thing should be brought up as an issue,unless they want to enforce tyre and tube manufacturers to put use by dates on thier product...
the issue is he came a cropper going slow and died as a result of what?
maybe a wire rope?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Crasher,

What sort of percentage of bikes are now sold with tubed tyres?

A lot of the dual purpose bikes other than Beemers which often use tubeless wheels even with spokes. All HD's that run spokes (and they're hard on tyres/tubes...but what the fuck would I know) and can't recall if retro Ducati's with spokes are tubed or tubeless sorry. Bound to be heaps more.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nothing mentioned about needing to change laws ... more of Policy/Practice of the tyre industry that needs change ...

How many times does it need to happen before you decide some change is needed .. ???
Until a family member ... or a friend of yours .. suffers the same fate ... for the same reason .. maybe ...



They'd be the same wankers coming on here having a bitch about the shop that didn't put new tubes in the bike when they should've known better and now xyz is dead and we're gonna drag their name through the mud and sue them etc etc etc. Can't fucking win either way.

[Motu]

But how many of your vehicles have you run tubes in that do and have done 150mph?

How fast was the bike in question going ? Pretty slow by the sounds of it...a car pulled out to pass him. The BMW is the first bike I've had with tubeless tyres....but have another set of wheels with tubed tyres on. New tubes and new valve stems for tubeless are a good idea if they look suspect and old, if they look fit for service, they go back in.

[awa355]

So maybe a slow leak from the tube?, Could the same scenario occur with some of the ' anti leak ' puncture additives that can be added to road tyres?.

I run some gunk in my scooter tyres as an added guard against a punture.

[Crasherfromwayback]

How fast was the bike in question going ? Pretty slow by the sounds of it...a car pulled out to pass him. The BMW is the first bike I've had with tubeless tyres....but have another set of wheels with tubed tyres on. New tubes and new valve stems for tubeless are a good idea if they look suspect and old, if they look fit for service, they go back in.

Much better post than your first one.

[Conquiztador]

Probably not directly relevant, but here:
- I have found that on my son's MX bike the main (only?) cause of flat tyre is when the valve in the tube gets ripped fully or partly out of the tube. This used to happen even if we used rim locks. By changing this to self tapping screws that are screwed in through a hole drilled in the side of the rim (and then in to the side if the tyre without going through in to the tube) I have managed to stop the tyre turning on the rim and ripping the valve.
- We always replace tubes with new ones when replacing tyre.

By doing these two simple things we have managed to eliminate flat tyres. And there is no need to use "heavy duty" tubes. This way reducing the un-sprung weight (desirable!).

[gammaguy]

I have two bikes with tubed tyres the TDR runs heavy duty ones.

They both get new ones at Tyre change time and the spokes get checked too

when I had a workshop I applied the same principles and it was not unheard of for me to suggest a punter go elsewhere if he thought the price of a new tube was unacceptable

The liability laws in NZ are pretty clear in matters mechanical and I would rather have a live complaint than a dead lawsuit

[F5 Dave]

People don't bother heavy duty tubes on mx but super good idea on trail bike where percussion punctures on rocks are likely. Leak shouldn't be common.

[buggerit]

Nothing mentioned about needing to change laws ... more of Policy/Practice of the tyre industry that needs change ...

How many times does it need to happen before you decide some change is needed .. ???
Until a family member ... or a friend of yours .. suffers the same fate ... for the same reason .. maybe ...



Would he have been better off hitting the car ... would that have been easier/softer option for him .. ??

The car mentioned was travelling the same direction as him.
I would far rather hit a concrete barrier than a wire rope barrier, think about it.

[FJRider]

The car mentioned was travelling the same direction as him.
I would far rather hit a concrete barrier than a wire rope barrier, think about it.

It was overtaking him actually ... and I was being sarcastic ...

Falling onto/under an overtaking car will hurt a bit ... and personally ... would not have a preference for either/any of those options ...

[Gremlin]

Even without the tubes, having a tyre quickly deflate on you isn't too fun. I had an oddity with one front tyre where under enough pressure (cornering at 110, maybe overtaking at 120 (straight line), sudden loss of pressure occurred. Seemed to happen every 40km ish.

Last one before I got it back to Auckland, 1psi left in the tyre as I got it to a stop on the side of the road doing my best to avoid a truck bearing down on me...

[Kickaha]

Then a question, when I last replaced the tube on the front of my XR250L, Motomart convinced me to buy a "heavy duty" tube but I have found it seems to lose air with time faster than I'm used to - is this normal for the heavy rubber type as its not something I've had so badly with "normal" tubes?
Some heavy duty tubes are natural rubber which tends to "leak down" more than synthetic

Any bike I've had that had tubes I always replaced them anytime the tyres where changed, they age and wear out just like everything else

[Crasherfromwayback]

Omigod - that was a scary read....44 years on the road with tubed tyres, it must be a miracle that I'm still alive! I need a little lie down after that, I'm all in a cold sweat wondering how close I've come to losing my life. Not only my own life, but there are possibly hundreds of people who've died without me knowing when I changed car and bike tyres using old tubes.


Some heavy duty tubes are natural rubber which tends to "leak down" more than synthetic

Any bike I've had that had tubes I always replaced them anytime the tyres where changed, they age and wear out just like everything else

Interesting.

[swbarnett]

its wire slicing ropes,
Not necessarily. With all the road works around there at the moment it may well have been concrete. It just depends exactly where the accident was.

[quickbuck]

Not necessarily. With all the road works around there at the moment it may well have been concrete. It just depends exactly where the accident was.




And when.... The accident happened 18 Months ago........





Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[swbarnett]

And when.... The accident happened 18 Months ago........
True. I'm not sure how long the road works have been there but it's probably no that long.

Edit: Just looked it up - started last month so definitely WRBs when this accident happened.