Aussie immigration policy

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210330

The Aussie policy sounds fair enough to me. What country wants immigrants that set up in their country and then expect handouts when things don't go as planned. We get that here with Mexicans except this government gives them all sorts of benefits they haven't earned the right to receive. In the past NZ has been pretty good at letting in islanders and others who then proceed to sponge of the tax payer. Good on the Aussies for taking a tough stance against welfare moochers.

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210330

The Aussie policy sounds fair enough to me. What country wants immigrants that set up in their country and then expect handouts when things don't go as planned. We get that here with Mexicans except this government gives them all sorts of benefits they haven't earned the right to receive. In the past NZ has been pretty good at letting in islanders and others who then proceed to sponge of the tax payer. Good on the Aussies for taking a tough stance against welfare moochers.

I believe the umbrage with the policy is that is discriminates against those who have worked and paid tax.

I would be pretty pissed if I worked 5-10 years in Aus, paying tax all the while, then when I went to claim something like the ACC equivilent (for all that Tax I paid) I got told 'Nah'

[Big Dave]

I went to claim something like the ACC equivilent (for all that Tax I paid) I got told 'Nah'

There is no ACC 'equivilent'.

[Trade_nancy]

Why even worry about their problems....as "ex" NZ'ers - living the life in Aussie - they quit out on us...

[Robbo]

There is no ACC 'equivilent'.


Workplace Queensland covers any work related injuries no matter what your status is.
Great to deal with too. :niceone:

[Ulsterkiwi]

Why even worry about their problems....as "ex" NZ'ers - living the life in Aussie - they quit out on us...

maybe "quit" is a bit strong. As an immigrant to NZ I do understand the draw of opportunity and bettering myself. I didnt come to NZ to make a ton of money but was drawn to the lifestyle and atmosphere I would be working in.
However if things had not worked out then I would not have expected to be bailed out. Having said that I only gained entry to NZ because
a: I had a skill set not already found in a NZer
b: I was coming to a job, not the prospect of one
c: I was being offered a salary which allowed me to sustain myself
d: My potential foul ups aside, my employer was willing to take me on a permanent basis
e: The police were not interested in me elsewhere
f: I was young enough and healthy enough that I was a good prospect of making a meaningful contribution to, rather than being a drain on resource

Until these criteria were satisfied the only way I could come here was with a return ticket to get me home again. Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that NZers can just jump on a plane to Aussie and decide not to come back? Freedom of travel is quite something!
I do see a real issue with no credit being given for having made a contribution to the public purse as is the case here in NZ.
The Aussies are not really likely to change their tack on this so long as so many people are trying to emmigrate there. You only have to look at their approach to refugees to figure out their stance on "rights" human or otherwise.
It also appears to me that this is a pretty well know set of circumstances and NZers who go to Aussie seeking the golden goose should perhaps have thought things through a bit more?
I grew up in Northern Ireland, I wouldn't even have moved to England (another part of the UK) without checking out things like that.

[mashman]

Awwwwwww, how antiquated.

[jasonu]

I believe the umbrage with the policy is that is discriminates against those who have worked and paid tax.

I would be pretty pissed if I worked 5-10 years in Aus, paying tax all the while, then when I went to claim something like the ACC equivilent (for all that Tax I paid) I got told 'Nah'

I guess that would depend on if the policy was changed after you put in the hours of if it was in place when one signed up.

[Akzle]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210330

The Aussie policy sounds fair enough to me. What country wants immigrants that set up in their country and then expect handouts when things don't go as planned. We get that here with Mexicans except this government gives them all sorts of benefits they haven't earned the right to receive. In the past NZ has been pretty good at letting in islanders and others who then proceed to sponge of the tax payer. Good on the Aussies for taking a tough stance against welfare moochers.

are you fucking retarded?
Bet you even think they steal your jobs, too.

Crackerjews imported a stack of boongas in teh 80s to build shit. (like state houses, for niggers, and murrays that needed more urbanising. Im looking at you auckland)
then, hey wait on, too much boongas. Cant send em back. Fuck. Just tide them over until the market requires some minimum wage labouring work, that no cracker will do because he was born white, and so is above that...

Yay jews!

Citizen earth. Everyone is just people. Except americunts and jews.

[jasonu]

are you fucking retarded?
Bet you even think they steal your jobs, too.

Crackerjews imported a stack of boongas in teh 80s to build shit. (like state houses, for niggers, and murrays that needed more urbanising. Im looking at you auckland)
then, hey wait on, too much boongas. Cant send em back. Fuck. Just tide them over until the market requires some minimum wage labouring work, that no cracker will do because he was born white, and so is above that...

Yay jews!

Citizen earth. Everyone is just people. Except americunts and jews.

But the boongas came over in the 70's under Norm Kirks watch. They were allowed in the put the tops on the colgate tubes and such. Woulda been OK except the rules allowed the worker to bring in his family and as we all know the average coco clan adds up to at least 30. Nek minit... Giddeon Tait and his coppers tried to flush the overstayers out with dawn raids but too late.

[Big Dave]

Workplace Queensland covers any work related injuries no matter what your status is.
Great to deal with too. :niceone:

Yes. But it stops at work - which I'm guess isn't what the protesters have in mind. :-0

[Big Dave]

You only have to look at their approach to refugees to figure out their stance on "rights" human or otherwise.

As usual Fitz sums what many of us think.

Yes, yes, I know, it is a guaranteed vote winner and a potentially huge boost in talkback ratings if you can demonise asylum seekers as filthy queue jumpers who just might be terrorists.
But, inspiringly, there are still many Australians who treat them the way the vast majority are – you know, like fellow humans, as if they're seriously desperate people who have fled for their lives, and deserve sympathy and support.
A case in point is the mighty Blue Mountains Refugee Support group, who late last year came to the aid of a group of Tamil refugees. The young men had fled Sri Lanka for their very lives, arriving by boat, only to go via Villawood Detention Centre and end up in a dreadful legal limbo, unwanted by two countries and – afloat on a sea of boredom, with barely a paddle to get moving with, let alone be able to work – unable to get on with their lives.
The good folk of the Blue Mountains decided to help them form a cricket team to give their week a focal point, and the refugees instantly embraced the idea.
And when your humble correspondent put a tiny item in my Saturday column saying they needed a cricket kit and a kitty for membership fees etc – as they had neither hide nor hair of either – the organiser, Noeline Nagle, was flooded with offers from Fairfax Media readers who very kindly contributed both. The mighty Wentworth Leagues Club also agreed to sponsor the team, and Ocean 12, as they called themselves, hence took their place in the Last Man Standing T20 cricket comp, from November 19 last year. And the story gets better still.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/refugees-form-a-successful-cricket-team-on-and-off-the-field-20140212-32i43.html#ixzz2uP7csfvR

[Ulsterkiwi]

As usual Fitz sums what many of us think.

Yes, yes, I know, it is a guaranteed vote winner and a potentially huge boost in talkback ratings if you can demonise asylum seekers as filthy queue jumpers who just might be terrorists.
But, inspiringly, there are still many Australians who treat them the way the vast majority are – you know, like fellow humans, as if they're seriously desperate people who have fled for their lives, and deserve sympathy and support.[/COLOR][/LEFT]

I understand, and the story you told is indeed inspiring and probably indicative of more people than is reported. I guess my post was sloppy in the way I expressed things, by "their" I meant the Commonwealth/Federal Government, not all Australians as individuals. As is the case in many situations and countries it is the government which has to be convinced not the people who put them there. That, unfortunately, is the hard bit, especially when there are sound bytes to generate and votes to be won and held. Bizarre aye?

[Robbo]

Yes. But it stops at work - which I'm guess isn't what the protesters have in mind. :-0

Agreed Dave, they seem to be complaining about the lack of handouts. They should be concentrating on getting jobs instead as there are plenty of jobs available for those that want to work and most employers will take on Kiwis because of their work ethics.
Also there are plenty of Insurance companies where you can get your own medical insurance and loss of income insurance policies so that would solve any concerns. It's not all that expensive and sure worth it for the lifestyle. If none of that suits them then they should go back home.

[Big Dave]

I understand, and the story you told is indeed inspiring and probably indicative of more people than is reported. I guess my post was sloppy in the way I expressed things, by "their" I meant the Commonwealth/Federal Government, not all Australians as individuals. As is the case in many situations and countries it is the government which has to be convinced not the people who put them there. That, unfortunately, is the hard bit, especially when there are sound bytes to generate and votes to be won and held. Bizarre aye?


Actually I even think the overall Refugee and Foreign Policy is essentially OK.
They took 13,000 refugees in 2011 - mostly relocated from the other countries who had granted refugee status to the poor sods, and they dole out $5 Billion in foreign aid annually.
But what Tony and his crew have their speedos inexplicably in a twist over is 'due process'.
Most of these people are running for their lives FFS - but no - you must do the proper paperwork. That's the well fucked up bit.

[FJRider]

The Aussie policy sounds fair enough to me ....

Their country .... their rules. :shifty:

If ANYBODY'S intending to move and work there ... don't like it ... stay where you are. :shutup:

Life is seldom fair ... and a few should get over it ... :doh:

[jonbuoy]

Same old story - a few professional bludgers spoil the benefit system for everyone else.

[mashman]

Same old story - a few professional bludgers spoil the benefit system for everyone else.

S'ok... the UK has the solution and it'll likely come to a country near you soon (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-visas-highest-bidder-210449570--spt.html). A balance must be struck.

[SPman]

Same old story - a few professional bludgers spoil the benefit system for everyone else.
Same story - someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on makes an inane statement because it satisfies his inner bigot!

[Ocean1]

S'ok... the UK has the solution and it'll likely come to a country near you soon (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-visas-highest-bidder-210449570--spt.html). A balance must be struck.

Brilliant!

Just have to arsehole an equivalent number of poor peoples...


... to Australia!



Oh wait, they've done that before...

[Akzle]

Same old story - a few professional bludgers spoil the benefit system for everyone else.

...politicians? :scratch:

[mashman]

Brilliant!

Just have to arsehole an equivalent number of poor peoples...


... to Australia!



Oh wait, they've done that before...

:laugh:... now they're takin it out on the rest of the world.

[cc rider]

You lot keep letting me in & out of the country :weird:

[jonbuoy]

Same story - someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on makes an inane statement because it satisfies his inner bigot!

You mean no Kiwis have ever gone to Australia to abuse the system?

The ones that are viewed by Australians as bludgers have spoilt it for the other Kiwis in Australia that aren´t bludging.

[FJRider]

You lot keep letting me in & out of the country :weird:

WE always let the cute one's in ... ;)

[Laava]

You lot keep letting me in & out of the country :weird:

Slipprier than an eel born in a bucket of snot!
Haha, love you really!

[Berries]

Same story - someone who doesn't have a clue what's going on makes an inane statement because it satisfies his inner bigot!
Do they take out your sense of humour when they let you in then?

[SPman]

You mean no Kiwis have ever gone to Australia to abuse the system?

The ones that are viewed by Australians as bludgers have spoilt it for the other Kiwis in Australia that aren´t bludging.What a load of shite!. Howard brought the policy in as a knee jerk reaction to stop the perceived back door immigration of asians through NZ into australia to satisfy the baying morons over here. That loophole was plugged from the NZ end shortly thereafter - it now takes about 5 yrs to get NZ citizenship. In the meantime, children of NZ'ers who have lived in Aus since 2001 and are effectively australians - having lived most of their lives here - can't access student loans etc. Those who have been here working, can't access sickness benefits if they fall severely ill, or are disabled, or victims of domestic violence. And, of course, if they lose their jobs - no unemployment - regardless of how long they have been working here.

Australians, who live in NZ, gain access to all social services after 2 yrs working in NZ!

But of course, in your world, it's all about abusing the system!

[Swoop]

...to stop the perceived back door immigration of asians through NZ into australia
Not perceived. Genuine.

A couple of Asian chaps I have known said exactly that, they are in NZ for the time required and moving on to Aus as soon as they could.
"Backdoor to Australia" is a very good description.

[jonbuoy]

What a load of shite!. Howard brought the policy in as a knee jerk reaction to stop the perceived back door immigration of asians through NZ into australia to satisfy the baying morons over here. That loophole was plugged from the NZ end shortly thereafter - it now takes about 5 yrs to get NZ citizenship. In the meantime, children of NZ'ers who have lived in Aus since 2001 and are effectively australians - having lived most of their lives here - can't access student loans etc. Those who have been here working, can't access sickness benefits if they fall severely ill, or are disabled, or victims of domestic violence. And, of course, if they lose their jobs - no unemployment - regardless of how long they have been working here.

Australians, who live in NZ, gain access to all social services after 2 yrs working in NZ!

But of course, in your world, it's all about abusing the system!

Well it's not just in my world is it? If NZ citizens weren't abusing the system why would they change the law? You seem a bit defensive - how much bludging have you done? And welcome to the wonderful life of being an immigrant - down to you to look after yourself or go home. Your not an Australian Resident or Citizen. I paid into the NZ system when I was only on a work visa - wouldn't have been entitled to any benefits. It was my choice to stay and risk it.

[Big Dave]

Yep. If you want to borrow the book, you have to join the Library.

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/nz/

[SPman]

Well it's not just in my world is it? If NZ citizens weren't abusing the system why would they change the law? You seem a bit defensive - how much bludging have you done? And welcome to the wonderful life of being an immigrant - down to you to look after yourself or go home. Your not an Australian Resident or Citizen. I paid into the NZ system when I was only on a work visa - wouldn't have been entitled to any benefits. It was my choice to stay and risk it.
Yeah - I've bludged a lot since I've been here - like $190,000 into the tax system in the last 8 yrs. ( I beleive in paying a fair share of tax - yes I could have "minimised" it, but I choose not to) I'm currently on an SCV visa, (the special NZ citizen visa), but, as I've lived and worked in Aus before 2001, I qualify for a permanent resident status, once I find the official date of entry in the archives. Then I can apply for an RRV visa and go for citizenship if I so desire. Before that, I was told it was no use applying for perm. res. status because I was too old.So....we'll take your money while you're here working and living, but otherwise, you've got less rights than a new refugee so when your usefulness is at an end - fuck off.


Not perceived. Genuine. Quite right, but, that loophole was plugged 10 yrs ago

[buggerit]

Yep. If you want to borrow the book, you have to join the Library.

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/applying/how_to_apply/nz/

Do you still need a criminal record?:lol:

[Big Dave]

Do you still need a criminal record?:lol:

Luls. Oscar Kightly laid that one on me in 2001.
Best retort ever for the sheep gags too.

[awa355]

Do you still need a criminal record?:lol:

I thought a pair of these were all you needed to get into Auss.

http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w420/awa355/ankle1.png

[Akzle]

we'll take your money while you're here working and living, but otherwise, you've got less rights than a new refugee so when your usefulness is at an end - fuck off.


yay fuken democrassy!

[jonbuoy]

Yeah - I've bludged a lot since I've been here - like $190,000 into the tax system in the last 8 yrs. ( I beleive in paying a fair share of tax - yes I could have "minimised" it, but I choose not to) I'm currently on an SCV visa, (the special NZ citizen visa), but, as I've lived and worked in Aus before 2001, I qualify for a permanent resident status, once I find the official date of entry in the archives. Then I can apply for an RRV visa and go for citizenship if I so desire. Before that, I was told it was no use applying for perm. res. status because I was too old.So....we'll take your money while you're here working and living, but otherwise, you've got less rights than a new refugee so when your usefulness is at an end - fuck off.

Quite right, but, that loophole was plugged 10 yrs ago

That's the same set of rights anyone on a NZ work Visa has. Australia made its neighbour a special case but it's still just a long term study/work visa not a fully paid up member of the club. Of the 650,000 kiwis living in Australia they must have noticed a fair few claiming benefits without contributing to the pot. If you want to get mad at someone get mad at them.

[FJRider]

Australian Immigration Officer asks intending visitor ... "Do you have any criminal convictions .. ??"

Intending visitor replies ... "I didn't know ANY were still required ..."

[Akzle]

Australian Immigration Officer asks intending visitor ... "Do you have any criminal convictions .. ??"

Intending visitor replies ... "I didn't know ANY were still required ..."

youve been beaten to it old chap. Did you have a stroke or something?

[FJRider]

youve been beaten to it old chap.

Story of my life ...



Did you have a stroke or something?


Anything more than 4 strokes is masturbation ... some can get their rocks off with two.

[SPman]

ah well - back to reality as seen by most....
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[James Deuce]

Once again jasonu provides a compelling argument for building a wall around the CONUS and putting a lid on it.

[mstriumph]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210330

The Aussie policy sounds fair enough to me. What country wants immigrants that set up in their country and then expect handouts when things don't go as planned. We get that here with Mexicans except this government gives them all sorts of benefits they haven't earned the right to receive. In the past NZ has been pretty good at letting in islanders and others who then proceed to sponge of the tax payer. Good on the Aussies for taking a tough stance against welfare moochers.

:rolleyes: Oh boy, where to start?
I'm a female, older, putty-coloured, large bike-riding, left-handed, 5'11" tall, Brit/NZer that's been domiciled in West Australia for over a decade.

I'm telling you this to give you a sporting chance ... there's got to be something in that description you love to hate?

Me, nothing gets me too riled ... except generalising, ungrammatical bigots who can't be bothered to check the facts before shooting their fool mouth off. I guess this means you :2thumbsup

.............. but before unleashing your spite on little me, how about sharing with us your thoughts of native-born US citizens who seek to ... what's your word ... 'sponge' off honourable, self-righteous, taxpayers (like you?)?. Do tell how spongers of the domestic breed are so morally-superior to the imported variety? :cool:

[jasonu]

Once again jasonu provides a compelling argument for building a wall around the CONUS and putting a lid on it.

Sounds like a fair plan to me. NZ should do likewise. Both countries have more than enough foreign riff raff.

[mstriumph]

Yep, I quite frequently leave people speechless ;)

their silence is accolade enough ...

[jasonu]

:rolleyes: Oh boy, where to start?
I'm a female, older, putty-coloured, large bike-riding, left-handed, 5'11" tall, Brit/NZer that's been domiciled in West Australia for over a decade.

I'm telling you this to give you a sporting chance ... there's got to be something in that description you love to hate?

Me, nothing gets me too riled ... except generalising, ungrammatical bigots who can't be bothered to check the facts before shooting their fool mouth off. I guess this means you :2thumbsup

.............. but before unleashing your spite on little me, how about sharing with us your thoughts of native-born US citizens who seek to ... what's your word ... 'sponge' off honourable, self-righteous, taxpayers (like you?)?. Do tell how spongers of the domestic breed are so morally-superior to the imported variety? :cool:

The topic is about those who show up to another country, things don't go as well as hoped so a handout is expected and then proceed to grizzle when one isn't forthcoming. They knew the rules when they arrived and if they didn't then tough shit. Don't like it, go back to where you came from (where you can probably get a handout).


Yep, I quite frequently leave people speechless ;)


their silence is accolade enough ...

Sorry I didn't reply fast enough, I was outside kicking a couple of drunk wagon burners.

[mstriumph]

The topic is about those who show up to another country, things don't go as well as hoped so a handout is expected and then proceed to grizzle when one isn't forthcoming. They knew the rules when they arrived and if they didn't then tough shit. Don't like it, go back to where you came from (where you can probably get a handout).

No, actually ... this thread is about your total misunderstanding of a NZ newspaper article covering a situation of which you have no current first-hand knowledge or understanding yet still having the arrogance and temerity to give those of us still here (who DO have that knowledge and understanding) the dubious benefit of your ill-considered, half-baked opinion.

I've only met two South Americans here so can't comment ... but there are many expat. NZs in WA; those I've met have been straightforward, self-sufficient, hard-working and self-supporting even though those that arrived here more recently cannot hope to get the same access to most benefits (were they to need them) that an itinerant Australian could claim after a set period were s/he to settle in New Zealand.

I do believe that this lack of even-handedness is the root of the problem for those people in the article - the unfairness of it rankles even to those of us who have no need or intention of accessing benefits.




Sorry I didn't reply fast enough, I was outside kicking a couple of drunk wagon burners.

No apology needed ... your silence was great but a good giggle is better; thanks for that :laugh:
By the way, do you have a bike? Perhaps it's the lack of riding that's making you grumpy.

[jonbuoy]

No, actually ... this thread is about your total misunderstanding of a NZ newspaper article covering a situation of which you have no current first-hand knowledge or understanding yet still having the arrogance and temerity to give those of us still here (who DO have that knowledge and understanding) the dubious benefit of your ill-considered, half-baked opinion.

I've only met two South Americans here so can't comment ... but there are many expat. NZs in WA; those I've met have been straightforward, self-sufficient, hard-working and self-supporting even though those that arrived here more recently cannot hope to get the same access to most benefits (were they to need them) that an itinerant Australian could claim after a set period were s/he to settle in New Zealand.

I do believe that this lack of even-handedness is the root of the problem for those people in the article - the unfairness of it rankles even to those of us who have no need or intention of accessing benefits.





No apology needed ... your silence was great but a good giggle is better; thanks for that :laugh:
By the way, do you have a bike? Perhaps it's the lack of riding that's making you grumpy.

That´s part of the choice of living but not being a full resident in a country. I´m in a completely grey area - I´m not entitled to any UK/NZ benefits I´ve lived out of both countries for too long despite having paid into both systems. Lots of expat brits are finding the same thing when they return to the UK. I´m not a resident in Spain either so I don´t get any benefits here. I understand that - that's why I have to pay for private health care and I know I´m on my own when it comes to retirement/sickness benefit. Were you born in the UK?

I guess Jason living in the states is in a similar situation - looking after himself. Welcome to how the rest of the world lives - no nice cuddly warm unsustainable western benefit safety blanket. Work out how much tax you pay and how much you get - education, health, unemployment retirement law and order - the western governments aren't making as much out of you as you think they are.

[Ocean1]

Welcome to how the rest of the world lives

Yeah, that's it in a nutshell, and nobody forced them to move there.

But the rest of the world lives by another general truism: The big entities dominate the little ones. Whether you're talking about comparing reciprocal social welfare entitlements or market access the big countries grab every advantage their size enables them to, and that's not a pittance.

Which ain't fair. I reckon the overall effect is responsible for a majority of the difference in standards of living between the US and Australia, Aussie and here, etc. Far more so than the comparatively slight differences in governance methodology might explain. And there's no obvious fix in sight, except to note that lowered pressure on any entity reduces it's performance.

So it may be that all we have to do is work a tad harder than your average American or Aussie to gain the same benefits. How hard can that be?