Gravel road skills training?

[newbie2012]

I'm getting satisfaction from riding on gravel roads on my road bike (btw, we are not talking epic journeys here). Seems to open up a whole new range of roads to ride. Does anyone know of any courses etc on developing skills/knowledge further or are there some similarly misguided people out there (on road bikes) who wouldn't mind another rider joining them to learn stuff from them ?

[Akzle]

fuck cuz, come up for a skid with me. I wont tell you fuckall but ill pull you out of the ditch if your bleeding too much to do it yourself.

[strandedinnz]

ProRider do a gravel riding course, really good I've not crashed since going on it ;-)

Lessons came in handy on the Lake Waikaremoana tracks (65km of gravel/dirt to get to the lake, 45km to get out)

[Grashopper]

ProRider do a gravel riding course, really good I've not crashed since going on it ;-)

Lessons came in handy on the Lake Waikaremoana tracks (65km of gravel/dirt to get to the lake, 45km to get out)

I'm quite keen on doing one of those. Especially after our little gravel trip on Waitangi Day. :D

[nerrrd]

Me too - did a silver porider course today, mentioned this to Neil the instructor and he said it's worth registering an interest with them as they wait until they've got an indication of numbers before scheduling another course. Thought I might email them an enquiry...since there doesn't seem any other way of doing it.

[newbie2012]

Yep, seems Pro rider are the only place.

Happened to call them today, nothing planned. If we all email them, they might be motivated to arrange a day. I'm up for sending a note to ask.

Also like Akzle's angle, but maybe the Pro Rider option would mean less bike damage but the café break conversations would not be as interesting.

PS did the Silver last weekend with Neil, pretty thorough dude.

[newbie2012]

FYI - Prorider advises they are looking at doing a gravel course over winter

[nerrrd]

FYI - Prorider advises they are looking at doing a gravel course over winter

Awesome, slippery wet gravel, even better! Sent them an enquiry anyway.

[Akzle]

Awesome, slippery wet gravel, even better! Sent them an enquiry anyway.

gravel is just as good wet as dry. and wet keeps the dust down.
Its mud that will fuckya.

[Crisis management]

Good to see people enjoying the roads less travelled, probably not a lot of use for road bikes but Northern adventure riders? (facebook) run a lot of entry level training for gravel and the like, auckland based and good people.
If you want to learn to ride in those slippery conditions you do run the risk of stuffing the bike in a ditch so be aware, alternatively contact endless dirt biking (woodhill) for a couple of hours of off road training, that will get all the basics you need.
I'll look out for you out there (trashy old BMW usually sliding around) :cool:

[Motu]

They don't water a speedway track just to keep the dust down, it increases traction. Same with a gravel road, more traction and less sliding around when it's wet - I (used too) crank it up a notch in the wet.

[nerrrd]

Good to see people enjoying the roads less travelled, probably not a lot of use for road bikes but Northern adventure riders? (facebook) run a lot of entry level training for gravel and the like, auckland based and good people.

Thanks for the tip, turns out they're running a Level 1 training course on April 12 if anyone is interested: www.northerngraveladventureridersnz.com/saturday-april-12th-level-1-graveladventure-bike-training.html

[george formby]

Thanks for the tip, turns out they're running a Level 1 training course on April 12 if anyone is interested: www.northerngraveladventureridersnz.com/saturday-april-12th-level-1-graveladventure-bike-training.html

Where? I'm guessing round Auks somewhere. My G/F wants to do some gravel training.

Wet gravel roads? Oh, yeah. All good unless they are clay based. "As slick as an eel" as the Marquis de Sade said of his mistress when she was tickled with a peacock feather.
Last time I rode the TDM on the Waikare & Old Russell roads in heavy rain the back tire just spun along the camber rather than drove through the corners. Oh, such fun! The front just kinda skittered & wobbled & slid & tucked. That reminds me. I need proper grippy foot pegs.

[Grashopper]

Thanks for the tip, turns out they're running a Level 1 training course on April 12 if anyone is interested: www.northerngraveladventureridersnz.com/saturday-april-12th-level-1-graveladventure-bike-training.html

Definitely interested. Where does the course take place and how much is it?

[nerrrd]

Definitely interested. Where does the course take place and how much is it?

It's in Auckland, specifically they use private roads in Riverhead forest. $150 for the day.

[george formby]

Definitely interested. Where does the course take place and how much is it?

Have a further fossick on the site. They are running courses in Taupo. Gazzumped...

[Grashopper]

Have a further fossick on the site. They are running courses in Taupo. Gazzumped...

There was no location description for the April course on the website, so I was hoping it was going to be around Taupo. Ah well. No dates or anything for the Taupo courses that I saw, so I guess there aren't any in the near future.

[george formby]

There was no location description for the April course on the website, so I was hoping it was going to be around Taupo. Ah well. No dates or anything for the Taupo courses that I saw, so I guess there aren't any in the near future.

soz. Just had a quick squiz at it & saw Taupo mentioned a few times.
I hope summit gets organised up here, I would like some training, too. The G/F's bike is not big trip friendly but very gravel friendly. I know how to ride it, even on the TDM with road tires, but not how to teach it. There in lies the rub.

[Akzle]

soz. Just had a quick squiz at it & saw Taupo mentioned a few times.
I hope summit gets organised up here, I would like some training, too. The G/F's bike is not big trip friendly but very gravel friendly. I know how to ride it, even on the TDM with road tires, but not how to teach it. There in lies the rub.

the same rules apply as with all vehicle pilotage.
1)dont brake around corners.
2)look where youre going (wanting to go, that is)

additionally, never haul brakes. Avoid using the front.
Never chop the throttle. Stay out of the wash, corrugate is safer than deep gravel.
Smooooov.
When the back goes out, hold it, countersteer. Start slow on an easy proper cambered section, do it again and again and again. Weight on pegs not seat as you get quicker.
Ax' 2c.

[Crisis management]

additionally, never haul brakes. Avoid using the front.


Good advice but I disagree about this, I am always buried in the front brake, pushes the tyre through loose stuff to the harder base below, you simply need to learn to modulate the brake lever at the point of lockup. Lots of brakes and lots of gas, if the rear is sliding the front is planted and going where you want it to.

Seeing as their training is $150 for a day, you would all be better getting off road training with the dirt bike riders rather than paying that much to pootle around on your own bike, Chris Birch, Broxy, Endless dirt biking are my first choices and they are around the country. In fact go anywhere they hire out dirt bikes (I think at Woodhill, Auckland it's $230 for a day including gear) and get some decent time on a small bike, you will learn far more that way.

Alternatively, look at the adventure riding forum and tag onto something from there but be prepared to take your time, terrify yourself and discover just how much nice country there is out there.

Last point, look on Silver Bullet events for all motorcycling events in our area.

[Voltaire]

I got a BMW r80St recently and my gravel skills could do with improving. I sent them the form for April 12.
Hey Crisis, got a GS yet?

[Akzle]

Good advice but I disagree about this, I am always buried in the front brake, pushes the tyre through loose stuff to the harder base below, you simply need to learn to modulate the brake lever at the point of lockup.

my post was targeted at n00b. The word was avoid, not an holy banning.

Being said. My metaphorical balls arent that large, i rally, rather than drift, the aim being going forward, and just dont give that much of a fuck about going fast.

>edt<
haul = grab =~ lockup. Yes, braking should be modulated.

[george formby]

the same rules apply as with all vehicle pilotage.
1)dont brake around corners.
2)look where youre going (wanting to go, that is)

additionally, never haul brakes. Avoid using the front.
Never chop the throttle. Stay out of the wash, corrugate is safer than deep gravel.
Smooooov.
When the back goes out, hold it, countersteer. Start slow on an easy proper cambered section, do it again and again and again. Weight on pegs not seat as you get quicker.
Ax' 2c.

Yup. That's what I do. More or less. I do use the front but pressure is tempered by the surface, same as road I use both brakes to keep the bike stable & planted. The back to steer with occasionally, going down hill in deep stuff.. But a last resort. Prefer using the throttle.

I rear wheel steer, use the gas to turn the bike & weight the pegs to lose or gain grip, chopping through a corner with wee bursts of throttle. Allows me to stay out wide on tight narrow roads & not be forced to lean the bike more than the surface will allow. The back wheel points where you want to go not necessarily the front. On the wee DT it does not really matter what you do, it's so light & light switch responsive. You can just drift it like a real dirt bike. The Exxon TDM needs to be cajoled & emailed before a corner. When lardy gets sideways it wants to stay sideways.

Smooooooove is the key & controlling speed. And keeping your head up!
Yeah, like I said, I can do it but do not know how to teach it.
Thinkin about playing skiddies on the lawn next time it rains or finding some sand somewhere so that the G/F can get used to the bike moving & using her weight to control it in a relatively safe & slow environment. Also modulating the brakes on & off lock up for more sensitivity to the bike moving under brakes.

We shall see what happens.

Oh! What I have stated in this post is not meant to be educational, don't try this at home kids. Just my 2c, too.

[Crisis management]

I got a BMW r80St recently and my gravel skills could do with improving. I sent them the form for April 12.
Hey Crisis, got a GS yet?

Have about 3 to choose from at the moment so it's looking good, should have a decision this week but probably not in hand for a week or three as we enjoy the pleasures of open homes and house selling! I do have a very tidy workshop now tho, found lots of stuff I didn't know I had...


my post was targeted at n00b. The word was avoid, not an holy banning.

Being said. My metaphorical balls arent that large, i rally, rather than drift, the aim being going forward, and just dont give that much of a fuck about going fast.

>edt<
haul = grab =~ lockup. Yes, braking should be modulated.

I think we are agreeing, that has to be a first!

Iain.

[Akzle]

I think we are agreeing, that has to be a first!

Iain.

ill have a drink on your behalf as consolation.

[buellbabe]

Some good tips in this thread...I would also add my 2c "relax...breathe...and avoid the grip of death on the handlebars".

The Buell is not on good terms with gravel, or rather I am not its biggest fan.
I had no issues back in the day on the Hardly but I HATE it on the Buell, it just feels like I have no control and sadly I know its me that at fault and not the bike!

The Ol Girl (my customised pridenjoy!) had a nasty bin on a rough work-in-progress road on the east cape and I have had a sphincter clenching moment on The Black as well! Fortunately that one turned out ok but I would really like to avoid those moments!

I am also thinking about contacting Prorider but don't wanna use my own bike LOL. Hmmm need to get my hands on a shitter for the day....

[george formby]

Apparently long Harleys are fun in gravel. A mate occasionally jumps on his vintage bike & goes drifting for a laugh.
I'm not keen on riding a Fireblade on gravel roads. The clip on's & nose to the wheel riding position induce sphincterus puckerus.

[Voltaire]

I've got a couple of old bikes with skinny tyres,even two up they are ok on gravel.
I took my 175 section rear tyre Ducati on gravel once and that was horrible.

[george formby]

I've got a couple of old bikes with skinny tyres,even two up they are ok on gravel.
I took my 175 section rear tyre Ducati on gravel once and that was horrible.

Marbles spring to mind.

OP, thank you. Me & the Mrs went for a tootle earlier, instigated partially by this thread. The route was steep, blind, gravel hairpins, through bush, more open, ridge line gravel, some freshly dumped on the road gravel & some tarmac.
The one thing that really came home in the hairypin parts was corner entry speed. Riding in bush (mmmmmmm) you can see stuff all. Not true. You know more or less where the road goes so if you approach the corner slow enough to look through the corner & follow it's exit through the bush you can see if a vehicle is approaching. Dust & flashes from the sun give them away through the trees. It's not 100% guaranteed but allows you to use more of the road & take advantage of the cambers exiting & entering corners. Same as the tar seal, you shorten the transition time between brakes & gas. You ride smoother.
On the open ridge line stuff I ended up channeling my Paris Dakar thing. On dual porpoise tires the TDM felt tickety boo at, er, 100kmh or so when I was standing up & letting the bike ride on a big throttle opening. Steering with foot peg weighting.
The freshly dumped gravel felt better the faster I went, too. The front flaps about a bit but as long as the gas is on no dramas.

Any hoo, lush afternoon. Cheers!

Disclaimer. I know stuff all about nowt. Not strictly true, keep your speed appropriate to what you can see. Learn to look if you want get better.

[nerrrd]

Thanks for the tip, turns out they're running a Level 1 training course on April 12 if anyone is interested: www.northerngraveladventureridersnz.com/saturday-april-12th-level-1-graveladventure-bike-training.html

Did this course yesterday. Found it really hard work, didn't take long for my lack of fitness to show especially when trying to stand up on my bike, which knocked my confidence a bit. Ended up opting out of some of the afternoon trails due to a combination of tiredness and unsuitable tyres. No dramas though, Sue (who organises it) took me and a couple of others off around some other roads in the meantime.

Was really interesting though, looked after me and my 'road' bike well, lots of gnarly roads to have a go on. Instructors were really friendly and encouraging, I'd recommend it if you want to have a go on gravel roads and get a taste for what's involved in 'Adventure' riding. :niceone:

[Voltaire]

Yes yesterday was good, getting towed out at the end was a bit of a bugger, thighs are bit sore today :confused:
Well run and informative.