The experts speak yet again

[actungbaby]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11212617


Mr kirkwood see my two fingers and rasbbery at the same time ... am not born again biker.

And I can control my bike just as well as did when was 20 ,if not better with conidence and mature outlook

I am Getting bit sick all the crap written about it , look at kenny roberts got on his tz 750 at the speedway .

I chould say that harleys that cant take the corners and generlize that as well (harlyes cause increase road toll )

You sour puss old git lol sour puss old gits bring everone down cause increase in suicuide rates ..

there happy know

yes was very sad about these men and does make me reflect what i do be a fool if it didnt but needs to be some balance omg

If interviewed me u have giggle i surpose waft on for hours lol

[Grubber]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11212617


Mr kirkwood two fingers and rasbbery at the same time ... am not born again biker

And can control my bike just as well as did when was 20 if not better with conidence and mature outlook

Getting bit sick all the crap written about it look kkenny roberst got on his tz 750 at the speedway .

I chould say they harleys that cant take the corners and generlize that as well (harlyes cause increase road toll )

You sour puss old git lol sour puss old gits bring everone down cause increase in suicuide rates ..

Jeez mate! Please learn to write in English!

[Paul in NZ]

Jeez mate! Please learn to write in English!

He can control his bike OK, keyboard not so much.... ;-)

[HenryDorsetCase]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11212617


Mr kirkwood two fingers and rasbbery at the same time ... am not born again biker

And can control my bike just as well as did when was 20 if not better with conidence and mature outlook

Getting bit sick all the crap written about it look kkenny roberst got on his tz 750 at the speedway .

I chould say they harleys that cant take the corners and generlize that as well (harlyes cause increase road toll )

You sour puss old git lol sour puss old gits bring everone down cause increase in suicuide rates ..

Yup. agree.

[Flip]

The only thing that committed suicide was the English language.

[5150]

Faark Meee. Trying to read and decipher this op makes me want to :crazy: jump on my bike and commit suicide.....

[tbs]

The headline was typically misleading, but I thought the content of the article was pretty sound..... and quite sobering too. That's a lot of deaths in a short time. If I understand you Actung, (which I probably don't), the gist of your complaint is that you can control your bike just fine thankyouverymuch and resent the implication that old geezers like you are responsible for a number of the crash stats. I reckon there are a few corpses who used to feel the same way.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The only thing that committed suicide was the English language.

Not everyone has the time or ability or inclination to write the masterful prose that some of you write. Give the guy a break: he usually makes sense - you just might have to read it a few times.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Faark Meee. Trying to read and decipher this op makes me want to :crazy: jump on my bike and commit suicide.....

Its still early in the day. I say go for it.

[pritch]

Depressing really, the same tired old cliches trotted out yet again. As for the "born agains" being out-ridden by their bikes; many modern bikes are capable of far more than their riders. I know mine is :whistle:

The fact remains that there has been a blip in the statistics, so it may pay us all to pause and think about how we ride?

Where's katman when you need him?

[Katman]

Depressing really........

Where's katman when you need him?

What I find depressing is the number of 50 -70 year old motorcyclists that I come in contact with who seem to be going through a second childhood.

[MIXONE]

What I find depressing is the number of 50 -70 year old motorcyclists that I come in contact with who seem to be going through a second childhood.

That's my age group and I haven't been through my first childhood yet.

[actungbaby]

Depressing really, the same tired old cliches trotted out yet again. As for the "born agains" being out-ridden by their bikes; many modern bikes are capable of far more than their riders. I know mine is :whistle:

The fact remains that there has been a blip in the statistics, so it may pay us all to pause and think about how we ride?

Where's katman when you need him?

yes agreed with you its up for debate no use preaching to the commited i think my bike safer know as tries are way better ditto the frames.

suspesison riding gear .

I am quiting smoking please be nice for few days... aghhhh

surley ones premitted to scribble with a carron if he so wishs his thoughts. get me room and can express myself better than most on here

without old swering cliches banded about

[Paul in NZ]

What I find depressing is the number of 50 -70 year old motorcyclists that I come in contact with who seem to be going through a second childhood.

Second childhood? I was doing that in my 30's?

[actungbaby]

That's my age group and I haven't been through my first childhood yet.

am one my third please catch up i wait for you

[tbs]

Depressing really, the same tired old cliches trotted out yet again. As for the "born agains" being out-ridden by their bikes; many modern bikes are capable of far more than their riders. I know mine is :whistle:

Yeah, I reckon that one about the 'born agains' needs changing.
Wouldn't it be refreshing just for once to read:

"There are too many returning riders who used to ride bikes when they were younger and were shit at it then, and it turns out they're shit at it now too."

[HenryDorsetCase]

"There are too many returning riders who used to ride bikes when they were younger and were shit at it then, and it turns out they're shit at it now too."

GOLD!!!

absolutely right.

[actungbaby]

The only thing that committed suicide was the English language.

see you ride a harley am sorry for your plight hehe

[f2dz]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11212617


Mr kirkwood two fingers and rasbbery at the same time ... am not born again biker

And can control my bike just as well as did when was 20 if not better with conidence and mature outlook

Getting bit sick all the crap written about it look kkenny roberst got on his tz 750 at the speedway .

I chould say they harleys that cant take the corners and generlize that as well (harlyes cause increase road toll )

You sour puss old git lol sour puss old gits bring everone down cause increase in suicuide rates ..

No need to get bitter about it. How do you think young people feel every time there's a huge stink about them being young/inexperienced/reckless when it comes to driving cars?

If you're not one of the riders he's referring to then who cares? I think it's quite an important issue personally.

It seems kinda crazy that a guy in his advancing years can jump on any bike he wants after only doing a 'scratchy test' back in his 20s..

[actungbaby]

Yeah, I reckon that one about the 'born agains' needs changing.
Wouldn't it be refreshing just for once to read:

"There are too many returning riders who used to ride bikes when they were younger and were shit at it then, and it turns out they're shit at it now too."

its free country if am sthit riding in your opion well thats fine i ride to my abilty whats shit riding anyways ?

Slow spliting lanes i dont do that but not going rip into u if you wish to .

Must say doesint worry to any degree when driving my car . i surpose where was coming from but am very tolrent person .

Have all notiched how much people getting cranky toot horns at the drop of a hat . dont do to me on bike but when in my car.

Other day was waiting for pedestrains and guy behind chouldint see am waving dude showed him and was all good.then thumbs up to him.

I get embarrsed at the lights as have you notiched if your turning right at the lights (yes pammy has two sets ) cars pause the other side.

Thats me asusming they have had dudes on bike rip in front doing right hand turn even if they dont have right away.

I must say i like being agressive rider at times keeps concertaion up but good to relax too . people like to say ,do onto them what what u expect back

In return.

[actungbaby]

Not everyone has the time or ability or inclination to write the masterful prose that some of you write. Give the guy a break: he usually makes sense - you just might have to read it a few times.

Time is my factor got household to run... taxi service to run estate to handle bikes to fix lol

Thanks mate back to the subject though

[actungbaby]

No need to get bitter about it. How do you think young people feel every time there's a huge stink about them being young/inexperienced/reckless when it comes to driving cars?

If you're not one of the riders he's referring to then who cares? I think it's quite an important issue personally.

It seems kinda crazy that a guy in his advancing years can jump on any bike he wants after only doing a 'scratchy test' back in his 20s..

Wrong on two counts and not getting upset about it.

I did my licence test at 15 years of age i had cop ride behind me for my test they failed guy before me for not putting on his indcator.

and that was that 30 sec u failed. i sat written test (no scratchs in my day ) we had licence book it had to be updated alot.

I got my two stage licence from memory didnt just go to full i had to gain the exp which i have .

experince learned is not lost..it might take little time to fully kick in but its always there.

depending on the bike u can ride motorbike safely if you can ride pushbike really well after you have enough exp riding the motor powered bike.

Its not rocket science people common sence you twist the go switch one way to go forward one way to slow down.

Then its the exp of a lifetime to make correct calls.

[Akzle]

i wonder if you old gits actually struggle with communication
or just do it because we're kb and being dicks is always in vogue. :nono:

[Katman]

"There are too many returning riders who used to ride bikes when they were younger and were shit at it then, and it turns out they're shit at it now too."

That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.

[roogazza]

Ahhhhh ! the infamous Mr Allan R Kirk!
I've been riding for 50 years as well, but I reckon I'm a fuck sight better looking !
He's been writing the same shit for years.
Resident expert my arse. :killingme

Off for a lie down.

[tbs]

That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.

Yeah, my first response was going to be: which cliche are we talking about here? Is it the guy riding his bike off the outside of a curve, or the guy riding it into a turning vehicle? Talk about cliche!

Also, I forgot one bit in what I did say.... It was going to read "... were shit at riding then but thought they were awesome, and they still think they're awesome, but it turns out they're still shit."

[Paul in NZ]

That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.

And I'd be reckoned a shit rider on both of them but then I'm more interested in surviving than I am in looking cool or going fast...

[swbarnett]

The fact remains that there has been a blip in the statistics, so it may pay us all to pause and think about how we ride?
A blip in the statistics is just that - a blip. The numbers are almost never evenly spread over time. A bump now, a dip then; it all levels out in the long run. Start worrying when you see a trend over a statistically significant period.

Having said that, it's never a bad idea to think about how we ride. I do it every time I'm on the bike. And often when I'm not.

[actungbaby]

A blip in the statistics is just that - a blip. The numbers are almost never evenly spread over time. A bump now, a dip then; it all levels out in the long run. Start worrying when you see a trend over a statistically significant period.

Having said that, it's never a bad idea to think about how we ride. I do it every time I'm on the bike. And often when I'm not.

Your right on me too , and in the car That looking at a target somone selse mentioned thats been failing of mine . got train my

Mind . Mind you in emergency it can all go to pot.

[actungbaby]

And I'd be reckoned a shit rider on both of them but then I'm more interested in surviving than I am in looking cool or going fast...

yes thanks agreed . simple we get one with it thats great i reg use my bike for very small distance.s errands

Complancy can creep in . as youth i thought id have someting to prove go fast that where more likey to have a crash.

Not because you so called shit rider but becuase you emtions are up . and trying to hard.

Paul to my mind you be exllent rider cause its attitude not technique out of a book reading ketih codes to roadracing not going make u

better person lol Thats hang up i still have somtimes let it go dude i tell myself crap ur 50 . u live way u want to not worry others think.

[MisterD]

A blip in the statistics is just that - a blip. The numbers are almost never evenly spread over time. A bump now, a dip then; it all levels out in the long run. Start worrying when you see a trend over a statistically significant period.

Well yes, and of course TPTB will spin this to their own ends - frinstance the "safety campaign" (Politics and Law forum), which will then be claimed as a huge success when we get the next random down-tick in accidents. Just like the 4km/h tolerance thing.

[actungbaby]

Yeah, my first response was going to be: which cliche are we talking about here? Is it the guy riding his bike off the outside of a curve, or the guy riding it into a turning vehicle? Talk about cliche!

Yes id thought that to mentioned saturday okay... Did the Turck have its lights working i assume yes as wasint mentioned

Mind you I nearly ran back of a car on the cbr 900rr driver pulled out right like truck whould do. and insteed of looking

For indicator was on assumed going right. and go down the left hand side. poor bastard probley made that fatal erorr.

As you whould not think ur get out braked by ten tonne truck.

I held back to see what car was doing but brakes at that time where only the back and like f@## keep my cool and was fine.

But back the car was getting bigger.u think ur doing what 50 kph its walking pace isnt it not when that happens.


Also, I forgot one bit in what I did say.... It was going to read "... were shit at riding then but thought they were awesome, and they still think they're awesome, but it turns out they're still shit."

True buddy i had no issue with it first time really Think all can fall into that trap but condifence is great thing and focus.

[Tigadee]

So since speed kills, riding a gutless 250cc increases your chances of survival then, I suppose? :baby:

[SPman]

In an emergency, you tend to fall back on long term ingrained responses, as your survival instinct tries to take over. If your default setting is crap, your emergency responses will be crap because there normally isn't much time to think, which is why it's more important to learn proper riding techniques early on, and build on them through your riding life, to give yourself a fighting chance if it all turns to shit !

[Katman]

I don't think it has anything to do with the model of bike but rather the degree of throttle rotation. I had a test ride of the latest VF1200 Honda the most powerful bike I have ever ridden and had no problem managing its speed by just not rotating the throttle as much as my smaller bikes 850 and 650.

Yes, but if everyone rode as sensibly as you appear to, we wouldn't be needing to have this discussion.

[Grubber]

Yeah, I reckon that one about the 'born agains' needs changing.
Wouldn't it be refreshing just for once to read:

"There are too many returning riders who used to ride bikes when they were younger and were shit at it then, and it turns out they're shit at it now too."

This does seem to cover it well enough.
I have an example of the very same condition occurring.
Good friend of mine brought another bike after 10 years out of the saddle.
He was a crap rider before and nothing changed when he returned, except he thought he was way better than he was.
Still alive but has been broken up a couple of times.
He still doesn't get it!:yawn:

[Akzle]

This does seem to cover it well enough.
I have an example of the very same condition occurring.
Good friend of mine brought another bike after 10 years out of the saddle.
He was a crap rider before and nothing changed when he returned, except he thought he was way better than he was.
Still alive but has been broken up a couple of times.
He still doesn't get it!:yawn:

and hes YOUR friend you say?

[Grubber]

and hes YOUR friend you say?

As opposed to you, yes!
Very good reason for that too i believe.

And i didn't say he was the smartest friend i got, i try and limit the idiots where possible, which is why your still not amongst the list!

[Akzle]

And i didn't say he was the smartest friend i got, i try and limit the idiots where possible, which is why your still not amongst the list!

thankyou. Just, thanks.

[BigAl]

That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.

Simply called.......... 'Evolution'

[pritch]

It seems kinda crazy that a guy in his advancing years can jump on any bike he wants after only doing a 'scratchy test' back in his 20s..

Here is somebody with no concept of the history. There were no scratchy tests then, hadn't been invented yet.

[Banditbandit]

That's my age group and I haven't been through my first childhood yet.

+ 1


i wonder if you old gits actually struggle with communication
or just do it because we're kb and being dicks is always in vogue. :nono:

Naaa . we speak pidgin so the younger generation have no idea what we are on about .. you dig man ???


That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.

That's very true ... put them on Harleys instead ...

[swbarnett]

Well yes, and of course TPTB will spin this to their own ends - frinstance the "safety campaign" (Politics and Law forum), which will then be claimed as a huge success when we get the next random down-tick in accidents. Just like the 4km/h tolerance thing.
All too true

[pritch]

Guy I know came into some money, decided to buy himself a bike not having ridden in several decades on account of marriage, buying a house, kids, life, etc. I asked his wife would he like to read some of the riding related books I had. "He'll be alright he'll figure it out."

Next time I saw her, only a couple of weeks later, I asked how it was going. The answer was that the bike was away for repairs.
"What happened?"
"A dog ran out."

Obviously I wasn't there and I didn't see it, but I can't help feeling that a more "with it" rider might have kept the plot upright. Apparently in an emergency situation you only get about 1/3 of a second to decide what to do. Better to be trying to recall something that you read last month, than something you vaguely remember from thirty or more years before.

And thanks Katman, your punctuality was appreciated. :niceone:

[trustme]

By general consensus we are a country of crap drivers, If that is the case why would we be great riders. The statistics, whether this is a blip or not, tend to suggest we ride about as well as we drive.
Just sayin

[philmc]

Interesting post.Especially when listening to talkback and you get no it all experts saying the answer is simply govern the bikes to only go 100kph .

[trustme]

That's very true. But when you throw in the fact that a 1980 GS10000 and a 2014 GSXR1000 are two very different bikes and the 2014 version can be doing twice the speed that the older one could reach between two close corners, things get even uglier.\

Not so sure there is a connect , the road toll generally is going down, modern cars would leave the old cars for dead performance wise as would the modern bike , modern cars are a lot safer , as are modern bikes. There was no ABS, traction control, tyres were crap , brakes were crap, suspension was crap, most bikes had garbage handling , we got into just as much trouble then as we do now.

[Akzle]

By general consensus we are a country of crap drivers, If that is the case why would we be great riders. The statistics, whether this is a blip or not, tend to suggest we ride about as well as we drive.
Just sayin

thankfully, ive never been a statistic.

[RDJ]

No need to get bitter about it. How do you think young people feel every time there's a huge stink about them being young/inexperienced/reckless when it comes to driving cars? If you're not one of the riders he's referring to then who cares?

Wot 'e said.

[Voltaire]

C'mon ..its the Herald, an Auckland paper....must be crap, written by latte swilling apartment dwellers.

Side note, was at HD doing some CSS training and there was a 'Pensioner" ( his word) with a BMW S1000 track bike....180 HP he said. Good thing it had 'rain mode' too.

[Scubbo]

my old man trail rode for years since before I was born, he stopped after getting back on a bike for one more ride after getting over a crash which took out his knee. It took the crash for him to realize his reaction time had slowed and to admit that he was feeling the push to keep up with the younger riders for fear he'd be alone in the middle between the main group and the new riders. getting old is a bitch, you can't ride like you used to, even if you think you can...

[ellipsis]

...all of the important things relate to physics...if you could wrap your head around physics when it was taught at 4th or 5th form, future decisions on your life and position in the cosmos could be realised...I never got past 3rd form but if I had I would have been into physics...but I didn't, I got a job and bought a motorbike...around about the time that my schoolmates who stayed at school were learning the theories of physics, I was out being a spacecadet having the laws of physics applied and after a lot of fails, I had to realise that I had transcended the laws of physics, which had the consequence of another broken bone or shredded jeans and fucked paisley shirt...a knowledge of physics as it relates to a moving object and its occupation of a volatile and fragile space in time and reality is probably a prerequisite to being able to even apply for a licence to ride or drive an inertianally dangerous mass on a road...but being able to spell 'physics' and only get one letter wrong is as close as it get's to being in the zone of proficiency these days... bring back, NO...

[Magnum Noel]

By general consensus we are a country of crap drivers, If that is the case why would we be great riders. The statistics, whether this is a blip or not, tend to suggest we ride about as well as we drive.
Just sayin

In a nut-shell:yes:

[Ocean1]

And still nobody's checked the numbers to discover that all those "born again" riders are in fact the lowest accident demographic.

Yes there's a hump in that age for accidents, but nowhere near the size of the hump representing the number of those old riders.

The crashingest age is, (and always has been) the under 20's, and the older they get from there the fewer crashes they have.

[trustme]

' Born again ' is one of those glib sound bites like ' speed kills ' . It grabs attention , nobody said it's reality.

[breakaway]

And still nobody's checked the numbers to discover that all those "born again" riders are in fact the lowest accident demographic.

Yes there's a hump in that age for accidents, but nowhere near the size of the hump representing the number of those old riders.

The crashingest age is, (and always has been) the under 20's, and the older they get from there the fewer crashes they have.

Maybe back in the 80s -- but now it appears that the trend has changed and its the 40+ riders that are crashing the most:

<img src='http://i.snag.gy/r3oO1.jpg'/img>

Source http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/crashfacts/motorcyclecrashfacts/

[Ocean1]

Maybe back in the 80s -- but now it appears that the trend has changed and its the 40+ riders that are crashing the most:

Yes. Scary numbers courtesy of NZTA. The obvious bias sorta highlights their obvious agenda, don't it?

Now make the age brackets the same size and correct it for numbers in each age group riding and show us the graph again.

[Tazz]

Yes. Scary numbers courtesy of NZTA. The obvious bias sorta highlights their obvious agenda, don't it?

Now make the age brackets the same size and correct it for numbers in each age group riding and show us the graph again.

I'd say. What bloody monkey put that together!

[gammaguy]

Jeez mate! Please learn to write in English!

Hey be nice
He's the kb version of John Cooper Clarke is all

[unstuck]

getting old is a bitch, you can't ride like you used to, even if you think you can...

Biggest load of shit I have read in ages. Ya fuckin muppet.:rolleyes:

[swbarnett]

The statistics, whether this is a blip or not,
You don't understand how statistics work, do you?

[swbarnett]

How lucky you get in a situation like that depends on how close you are to the driveway/footpath the dog runs out from. I have been knocked off by dogs twice and in both cases I was inline with the driveway/footpath the dog ran out from and had no time at all to even brake.
Try opening the throttle. I'm not saying it will always work but sometimes it's a much better option than the brake.

And I say this from personal experience.

[Tigadee]

Try opening the throttle. I'm not saying it will always work but sometimes it's a much better option than the brake.

And I say this from personal experience.

And how did it taste? Like chicken? :blip:

[MD]

I'd say the reason that chart shows an increase in the over 40s Riders crashing is simply down to the lack of young people taking up riding. All that leaves is us older folk, so over time the stats wil have no choice but to reflect this demographic.

[Kendoll]

Try opening the throttle. I'm not saying it will always work but sometimes it's a much better option than the brake.

And I say this from personal experience.

Well said, agreed! :clap:

[Scubbo]

Biggest load of shit I have read in ages. Ya fuckin muppet.:rolleyes:

:bleh:

what I keep telling my old man to try get him back into riding, approaching 70, surely has one more adventure left in him

[James Deuce]

I don't think it has anything to do with the model of bike but rather the degree of throttle rotation. I had a test ride of the latest VF1200 Honda the most powerful bike I have ever ridden and had no problem managing its speed by just not rotating the throttle as much as my smaller bikes 850 and 650.

Get a train pass.

[James Deuce]

I'd say the reason that chart shows an increase in the over 40s Riders crashing is simply down to the lack of young people taking up riding. All that leaves is us older folk, so over time the stats wil have no choice but to reflect this demographic.

It's a global trend, magnified by the current crop of entitled shits sponging off their parents into their early '30s.

[James Deuce]

How lucky you get in a situation like that depends on how close you are to the driveway/footpath the dog runs out from. I have been knocked off by dogs twice and in both cases I was inline with the driveway/footpath the dog ran out from and had no time at all to even brake.

Get a second train pass.

[5150]

Brilliant piece in todays NZ HErald (Letters to the editor section)

This cock reckons that to reduce motorcyclists deaths we need to change laws to forbid them from lane splitting, trying to get to the front of the cue, passing on bends and drag knees around corners. He has either never ridden a bike or is a pissed off cager with an axe to grind.

[haydes55]

There was no time to open the throttle either.




I bet that as you hit the dog you had no throttle or brakes on. If you had of rolled on some more throttle as you hit, the bike would be more likely to stay upright.

At speedway I hit walls many times at full throttle on the straights, just bounce off and carry on. Seen so many people back off the throttle and the bike get ugly and crash.

[bogan]

No they don't need to do that just cancel ACC for those who do ride like that. There would be more riders in the cemetery who ride like that than who don't.

Yeh, anyone who falls off clearly shouldn't be covered by ACC, that'll lower the fuck out of our levies too :facepalm:

[Kendoll]

No they don't need to do that just cancel ACC for those who do ride like that. There would be more riders in the cemetery who ride like that than who don't.

Wow, what world do you live in? Will you then be the judge of who gets ACC and who doesn't according to their riding?

You'd better take in to account people hitting dogs who don't know whether to brake or throttle on, too...

[bogan]

What planet do you live on? as when hitting an animal on the road the fault always lies with the negligent
owner if they can be found. Even in the case of farm animals.

Does the same go for inanimate objects like wood? rocks? gravel etc?

Also, ACC is no fault, it is why we can't sue. You should probably do even just a cursory read of this stuff before flapping your gums.

[RDJ]

Also, ACC is no fault, it is why we can't sue.

Indeed yes. We no longer have the option to sue for ourselves, but we have no option to not pay for everyone else...

[buggerit]

What you have said worked for me once when I saw a bit of wood lying on the road too late but the bit of wood was much smaller than a dog and some do dart out on the road real quick.

yeah, you do get some fucking fast bits of wood sometimes:lol: just come out of nowhere they do

[RDJ]

By general consensus we are a country of crap drivers, If that is the case why would we be great riders. The statistics, whether this is a blip or not, tend to suggest we ride about as well as we drive.
Just sayin

On the other hand - having lived and worked in quite a few countries where there are really crap drivers to be seen, we could still get worse... much worse!

[James Deuce]

What planet do you live on? as when hitting an animal on the road the fault always lies with the negligent
owner if they can be found. Even in the case of farm animals.

No it doesn't. The last accident I had was a sheep launching itself at me head high from grass on the side of the road that was high enough to hide it. I'd just ridden through a mob of untended sheep on the road and was trundling down the road at all of 70 km/hr keeping a weather eye out. All I can remember is seeing the sheep at head height and waking up face down unable to see or breathe properly. I had 10 broken ribs, a ruptured eardrum, a lacerated liver, a fucked ankle, slightly fractured skull and deep stab wounds in my knees and elbow from shattered "armour" in my leathers. My carbon fibre helmet was split in two. I got a helicopter ride, 3 months off work and a lifetime of pain and other side effects and the farmer responsible obviously attended the accident and left me to rot on the side of the road because the animal's ear had been removed. No tag to be found and an MVA doesn't tend to perfectly remove an animal's ear and leave no trace of blood or a perfectly straight line. I was the third injury accident from wandering stock on Route 52 that week. Some people stopped to help but the hillbillies couldn't work a cellphone so I had to ring for my own help. The cop was livid, but not one of the bastards would own up and there was no proof as to who the animal belonged to.

I got a lecture about watching for wandering stock from the cop, ACC, workmates, doctors, nurses, consultants, farming family members - every arsehole who had an opnion. Not one of them regarded the farmer as responsible and the law sure as hell doesn't or they would have just charged every farmer who bordered the road near my accident.

In 1986 I wrote a Toyota Corolla off against the side of a 1 tonne Friesian bull that was sleeping in the middle of the road near Dargaville. The owner wasn't charged. I got an invoice for the farmer's vet bill. Thankfully the local Dargaville cop sorted that out.

I've discussed other stock related incidents with other victims. Farmers are never charged, and associated costs are usually levelled at the motorist who killed or damaged stock. THAT'S the world we live in.

[pritch]

I've discussed other stock related incidents with other victims. Farmers are never charged, and associated costs are usually levelled at the motorist who killed or damaged stock. THAT'S the world we live in.

Not so much the world James, it's the country we live in. A remnant of our pioneeering past, he laws here were framed to suit farmers and miners.

[Banditbandit]

I'd say the reason that chart shows an increase in the over 40s Riders crashing is simply down to the lack of young people taking up riding. All that leaves is us older folk, so over time the stats wil have no choice but to reflect this demographic.

No - it's not that simple

Yes, there is an aging motorcycle riding population ...

However .. the first set of age ranges given has four groups which make up a 15 to 39 years range - that is a 25 year spread - the last one - the over 40s - can be a 40 year spread or more ... (I have a friend who is 81 and still rides. that would make the 40 plus age group at least a 41 year spread)

So the last two years show that in the first 25 year age group (19-39) there were fewer deaths and in the wider age range 40 plus there were more deaths .. which you would expect in the wider age range because it's possibly sampling a bigger group ...

However, in 2010 in the first 25 year age range (15-39 ) there were 32 deaths and in the last 40 year age range there were 17 deaths ...

The stats are misleading as they are presented.

[Banditbandit]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere farmers could be prosecuted for wandering stock but if they can not be identified in the first place that would be an issue. Maybe the law has changed since 1986. No doubt another poster will confirm what the current law is about wandering stock.

Farmers are still responsible for wandering stock andf for such causing accidnets - I hit a coupe of sheep and had damage to my truck (lucky I wasn't on four wheels) the insurance company sent the bil to the farmer's insurane company.

If you have an accident with stock GET THEIR TAGS or the EAR MARKS - they prove who the stock belongs to ..

[James Deuce]

If you have an accident with stock GET THEIR TAGS or the EAR MARKS - they prove who the stock belongs to ..

If you have the opportunity.

[James Deuce]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere farmers could be prosecuted for wandering stock but if they can not be identified in the first place that would be an issue. Maybe the law has changed since 1986. No doubt another poster will confirm what the current law is about wandering stock.

The main body of text related to a 2010 accident. The law is not the issue. Farmer's attitudes to people using roads they regard as stock trails is.

[Akzle]

the current law is about wandering stock.

4 cloves garlic, minced
3/4 cup bourbon
1/2 teaspoon ground
black pepper
1/2 tablespoon salt
2 cups ketchup
1/4 cup tomato paste
1/3 cup cider vinegar
2 tablespoons liquid
smoke flavoring
1/4 cup Worcestershire
sauce
1/2 cup packed brown
sugar
1/3 teaspoon hot
pepper sauce, or to
taste

1. In a large skillet over medium
heat, combine the onion, garlic,
and whiskey. Simmer for 10
minutes, or until onion is
translucent. Mix in the ground
black pepper, salt, ketchup, tomato paste, vinegar, liquid
smoke, Worcestershire sauce,
brown sugar, and hot pepper
sauce.
2. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat to
medium-low, and simmer for
20 minutes. Run sauce through
a strainer if you prefer a
smooth sauce.

[Kendoll]

What planet do you live on? as when hitting an animal on the road the fault always lies with the negligent
owner if they can be found. Even in the case of farm animals.

You didn't answer my question....
And you're wrong on this one anyway, ask James Deuce he knows all about it.

[GrayWolf]

That's my age group and I haven't been through my first childhood yet.

Amen to that, I've ridden 40yrs now, and STILL in my first childhood too :woohoo:

[GrayWolf]

my old man trail rode for years since before I was born, he stopped after getting back on a bike for one more ride after getting over a crash which took out his knee. It took the crash for him to realize his reaction time had slowed and to admit that he was feeling the push to keep up with the younger riders for fear he'd be alone in the middle between the main group and the new riders. getting old is a bitch, you can't ride like you used to, even if you think you can...

There's always an 'exception' to the rule... back in the late 90's/early 2000's? They hosted the World speedway down in Invergumboot. The 'Master' Ivan Mauger was down there with his old 'nemesis' from Aussie, those old timers did a few 'races' and in their 60's were only a few seconds behind the race times of the modern crop, Have a look at youtube of J Surtees riding clubman in his later years, real talent stays with you.

[Robbo]

That maybe more likely to do if you are on 4 wheels. Very unlikely you would be in a fit enough state to get tags if you are on a bike. Good to know there is now a law in place anyway even if it is not ideal for all accident victims. No doubt taking a pic would also suffice with the vehicle/bike it hit in it.

Just don't get your picture taken like this when you catch it.:eek:

[swbarnett]

There was no time to open the throttle either.
How close to the side of the road where the dog came from were you?

[yevjenko]

Maybe back in the 80s -- but now it appears that the trend has changed and its the 40+ riders that are crashing the most:

Wait a minute.... those folks that were crashing a lot in the 80's as 15-19 year olds, are 30 years older now and are in the 40+ range... maybe they were just really shit riders ?

(ducks and covers) :oi-grr:

[actungbaby]

In an emergency, you tend to fall back on long term ingrained responses, as your survival instinct tries to take over. If your default setting is crap, your emergency responses will be crap because there normally isn't much time to think, which is why it's more important to learn proper riding techniques early on, and build on them through your riding life, to give yourself a fighting chance if it all turns to shit !

well true enough but that less about teqnique more on compsure

[actungbaby]

\

Not so sure there is a connect , the road toll generally is going down, modern cars would leave the old cars for dead performance wise as would the modern bike , modern cars are a lot safer , as are modern bikes. There was no ABS, traction control, tyres were crap , brakes were crap, suspension was crap, most bikes had garbage handling , we got into just as much trouble then as we do now.

Yes the tires where crap esp the oem ones and the frq honda shocks didnt they say stood for fade very quick. no wonder

Mike the bike took his works honda shocks of his 500 looked the bike tech then trpugh them in the lake . must been honda test track.

I think translation got through.

But The trouble today well from 90,s on all the abs plastic bike gets written of and drop of a hat. bikes dont hold themselves up.

So alot acc levvey not going on patching riders up its going on riped ridding gear and alike .

Must say other day was at accident sence in town police very good at writting down the damage to his bike and gear.

Talking to driver that this time caused the accident he was okay riped jeans kee had bit of a gash.

Bike was good to new cbr 500 r though just cause had crack in faring it be 500 plus problley grand with labour.broken right indicator.

gee bikes are 20 years on bike still scrape same parts dont they .

[actungbaby]

I'd say the reason that chart shows an increase in the over 40s Riders crashing is simply down to the lack of young people taking up riding. All that leaves is us older folk, so over time the stats wil have no choice but to reflect this demographic.

great point pretty sad hop more young folks do . but think hopfully as more of choice know not transport reason , that be less hoons

Taking up biking .

[actungbaby]

:bleh:

what I keep telling my old man to try get him back into riding, approaching 70, surely has one more adventure left in him

Meet dude here in town 70 years young brand new honda cbr 250 r he loves it but hes never stoped riding

He very carefull man u expect that be the case as got this far hasint he (my i thought not half the rider he is )

Imagine his exp with the british bikes up till know he be great to talk to (and he was). bill from memory.

[actungbaby]

I bet that as you hit the dog you had no throttle or brakes on. If you had of rolled on some more throttle as you hit, the bike would be more likely to stay upright.

At speedway I hit walls many times at full throttle on the straights, just bounce off and carry on. Seen so many people back off the throttle and the bike get ugly and crash.

More like dumb luck i hit dog going less than 50 kph had back brake locked i didnt fall off (poilce all looked around ) was outside

gang house the higway 61,s in chch how embarrsing . got off ownere said dog was fune he made alot racket though .

Mind you dude u know what works for you so its all about confidence .crap i read other day how this dude

In kenworth injured by hiting a cow and thought feck . you know mate hit one in his car he told me wrote it off.

I think be curtins if you did on a bike .

[actungbaby]

You didn't answer my question....
And you're wrong on this one anyway, ask James Deuce he knows all about it.

Did you see that article in herald online about guy lost his leg , it been reported to police about dangerous sitwation, with stock.

And been crash before from memory they got sent to wrong adress , and this guy hit in his car lost his leg. nasty.

Any way short story not angrey about it anymore great attitude wants appogy from police and famer didnt even bother

To contact him . pss poor whay is it nice ones get treaed like S@##T

been some rich big wig or Poilitican been hell to pay.

Mind you read about dude from band elo and one round hay bales rlled on to his car killed outright in the uk .

Just dumb luck i think u can be like shcmaker do all that racing fall of your skis hello enjoy your life.

[actungbaby]

Yeh, anyone who falls off clearly shouldn't be covered by ACC, that'll lower the fuck out of our levies too :facepalm:

Yes cant really have that be like the usa ur scewed if your got average wage or less .thinking wheres all this acc levies

I never claimed oh my dad did rip up old suit and said i was wearing it :-) not to cool with that . didnt tell me .

U think nkow 20 year doesit waer old dudes suit lol.

But its not hospital costs cause gov pay those or treatments is just time off from work why bike costs are so high.

look all sports injuires and all that bs therpy . i never had any of that i limped for few months but u heal yourself.


Of course if its broken diffrent story, never boroken bone either.or stichs or gravel rash much.

[actungbaby]

There's always an 'exception' to the rule... back in the late 90's/early 2000's? They hosted the World speedway down in Invergumboot. The 'Master' Ivan Mauger was down there with his old 'nemesis' from Aussie, those old timers did a few 'races' and in their 60's were only a few seconds behind the race times of the modern crop, Have a look at youtube of J Surtees riding clubman in his later years, real talent stays with you.

totally as its remembered even if its natual refexs to them the old limbs stil got move the fingers and wrists legs and feet.

Thats high compression singles take alot to control more than motogp bike . bloody ruts oh nasty i never get on one.

My wifes cousin Had big crash in rapuna two weeks ago broken arm punched lung in very bad state . dudes got no fear.

Wasint even at fault guy in front swinger fell of cause just kancked .feck me seen him race here. i just said to him

Dude you brave man way pitch in the first corner so close dam

He already looking when he can get back to racing he got the 2 nz next year and been racing for 25 years.

[actungbaby]

totally as its remembered even if its natual refexs to them the old limbs stil got move the fingers and wrists legs and feet.

Thats high compression singles take alot to control more than motogp bike . bloody ruts oh nasty i never get on one.

My wifes cousin Had big crash in rapuna two weeks ago broken arm punched lung in very bad state . dudes got no fear.

Wasint even at fault guy in front swinger fell of cause just kancked .feck me seen him race here. i just said to him

Dude you brave man way pitch in the first corner so close dam

He already looking when he can get back to racing he got the 2 nz next year and been racing for 25 years.

Was just news piece on tvone news 20 mins in about motorcycle road toll older riders the kitchen sink...

Not good listening some bikes tire off the rim holy feck whole front ends missing u ee these sences in road racing crashs in the 80,s not on

the road.

Some those bikes make barry sheenes ow_61 look like got gravel rash only and that one where hit the prone bike on the track at 150 mph.

[mstriumph]

been riding consistently for a long time
the bikes I ride now are more powerful than those I rode at 14, the roads are more congested and my reflexes are slower (which, considering they came off a far higher level than most, don't bother me too much :cool:).

if someone will give me some meaningful stats, like prangs per thousand kms ridden, expressed in rider age groupings of no greater than ten years, I might listen ... until then it's just another self-aggrandising so called 'authority' blathering on about something of which they know little just to get their name and picture in the press.

[ellipsis]

There's always an 'exception' to the rule... back in the late 90's/early 2000's? They hosted the World speedway down in Invergumboot. The 'Master' Ivan Mauger was down there with his old 'nemesis' from Aussie, those old timers did a few 'races' and in their 60's were only a few seconds behind the race times of the modern crop, Have a look at youtube of J Surtees riding clubman in his later years, real talent stays with you.

...yeah, I was racing at those events...lot of older internationals there...the Crump Mauger shoot out was fantastic...you dont know anyone that filmed the racing do you ...

[actungbaby]

been riding consistently for a long time
the bikes I ride now are more powerful than those I rode at 14, the roads are more congested and my reflexes are slower (which, considering they came off a far higher level than most, don't bother me too much :cool:).

if someone will give me some meaningful stats, like prangs per thousand kms ridden, expressed in rider age groupings of no greater than ten years, I might listen ... until then it's just another self-aggrandising so called 'authority' blathering on about something of which they know little just to get their name and picture in the press.

I wondered somthing never thought of how many regestered motorbikes are there on the road . u dont here how many cars.

News mentioned firgure 20 times more likey crash or was be killed on a motorbike compred to car i assume they mean

Or do they mean sky diving.;-)

[yevjenko]

...deep stab wounds in my knees and elbow from shattered "armour" in my leathers. My carbon fibre helmet was split in two. .

What was the gear you were wearing? I need to make sure I don't own any of it.

And mucho ouch to the rest of your post

sent from my phone (so scuze auto correct typos)

[swbarnett]

News mentioned firgure 20 times more likey crash or was be killed on a motorbike compred to car i assume they mean
Don't believe them. That figure is based on seriously flawed data. The real figure (from memory) is closer 4 times. Even that is suspect; we're not comparing apples with apples.

[Voltaire]

Now that I'm over 50 I have had to stop listening to BFM and tune to 1ZB, that Leighton Smith and all those callers sure have the answers to everything.:rolleyes:

[Ulsterkiwi]

No it doesn't. The last accident I had was a sheep launching itself at me head high from grass on the side of the road that was high enough to hide it. I'd just ridden through a mob of untended sheep on the road and was trundling down the road at all of 70 km/hr keeping a weather eye out. All I can remember is seeing the sheep at head height and waking up face down unable to see or breathe properly. I had 10 broken ribs, a ruptured eardrum, a lacerated liver, a fucked ankle, slightly fractured skull and deep stab wounds in my knees and elbow from shattered "armour" in my leathers. My carbon fibre helmet was split in two. I got a helicopter ride, 3 months off work and a lifetime of pain and other side effects and the farmer responsible obviously attended the accident and left me to rot on the side of the road because the animal's ear had been removed. No tag to be found and an MVA doesn't tend to perfectly remove an animal's ear and leave no trace of blood or a perfectly straight line. I was the third injury accident from wandering stock on Route 52 that week. Some people stopped to help but the hillbillies couldn't work a cellphone so I had to ring for my own help. The cop was livid, but not one of the bastards would own up and there was no proof as to who the animal belonged to.

I got a lecture about watching for wandering stock from the cop, ACC, workmates, doctors, nurses, consultants, farming family members - every arsehole who had an opnion. Not one of them regarded the farmer as responsible and the law sure as hell doesn't or they would have just charged every farmer who bordered the road near my accident.

In 1986 I wrote a Toyota Corolla off against the side of a 1 tonne Friesian bull that was sleeping in the middle of the road near Dargaville. The owner wasn't charged. I got an invoice for the farmer's vet bill. Thankfully the local Dargaville cop sorted that out.

I've discussed other stock related incidents with other victims. Farmers are never charged, and associated costs are usually levelled at the motorist who killed or damaged stock. THAT'S the world we live in.

Have done route 52 once, I thought the turkeys were dodgy looking. Man but you had a shit time with that one!

[actungbaby]

Don't believe them. That figure is based on seriously flawed data. The real figure (from memory) is closer 4 times. Even that is suspect; we're not comparing apples with apples.

When i think about it (can u smeell burning )chance of a accident depends on the moment your in. your not going get fact sheet out

Oh is that lorry going turn into my path ... dont look at his/her hand s on he wheel or wheels look this chart from acc

traffic never flow you be emergency braking at the drop of a hat with these people. and simon dellow face when read the titem i thought eaten a lemon whole.

Yes those nasty little motorcyclist how dare they pass my porche.hehe

[Ocean1]

Have done route 52 once, I thought the turkeys were dodgy looking. Man but you had a shit time with that one!

I've done it a dozen times. Half of those on an identical bike to Jim's.

Maybe three of those times I didn't see sheep on the roadside.

Never had one do the Ninja Buell-killer thing. Maybe next time.

[SPman]

Have done route 52 once, I thought the turkeys were dodgy looking. Man but you had a shit time with that one!

Beware of Turkeys..............