Ninja 650ER clanking noise?

[Floppy disk]

Folks,

I need some opinion here before going to the mechanics. I am starting to hear some clanking noise from the front of engine compartment in my Ninja 650ER. In 3 rides, the noise went from hard to detect to continuous :pinch:. It sounds like if a fan is hitting something as it turns. I can’t point out where it exactly is coming from but it seems to go up and down as I accelerate or stop accelerating. The bike runs fine but that burst when I pull the throttle has become slightly weaker, and it also sort-of half-choke for quarter a second before responding when I accelerate from a still position (obviously on first gear). Other than that the bike appears to be as fine as usual.
Any idea what it could be? :scratch:

[Banditbandit]

It could be fatal to your engine ..


But seriously ?? No idea ... the sound from the front of your engine and the slight paused before accelerating may not be related. (If they are related then it will be fatal fairly soon) .. I could make some guesses - all of them might be wrong - and all of them indicate something nasty ..

If it is getting worse that quickly and you do not know what it is I'd get a professional to look at it asap. It might just stop in the middle of nowhere .. and stop either gently or violently ..

[Devil]

It sounds like you should just keep riding it until it takes itself to a mechanic.

[Akzle]

valves nigga!

And yes. You need them. Ride not, lest thine motor explosm.

[Floppy disk]

From over the phone, the mechanic reckons I might need a new engine!!!! Can he be right? :no:

You can hear the noise following links:

https://onedrive.live.com/redir.aspx?cid=d9143e35b6f7ef71&page=view&resid=D9143E35B6F7EF71%212859&parid=D9143E35B6F7EF71%21211&authkey=%21&Bpub=SDX.SkyDrive&Bsrc=Share&sc=Photos&type=5

[rickstv]

The noise sounds thinner than big ends. they usually sound more clunky.

as the mic moves more rearward it starts to sound more clicky, more like top end.

I'm not a mechanic so could be a mile off.:confused:

Rick.

[Akzle]

stop. Running. The. Fucking. Engine.
Or you WILL need a new one.

[Floppy disk]

stop. Running. The. Fucking. Engine.
Or you WILL need a new one.

Well I had to run it to record the noise. <_<

[Gremlin]

It sounds like you should just keep riding it until it takes itself to a mechanic.
Yeah, definitely, I mean, it would surely know when to stop working...

OP... trailer or ute the bike to the mechanic now...

[James Deuce]

Do you make a clanking noise when you orgasm? If not this is definitely not a normal motorcyle or rider noise. Mechanic or sex therapist, it's up to you.

[Akzle]

Well I had to run it to record the noise. <_<

oh, for that, well, thats ok then.
Hey, i want to hear a bang noise, so can you start your bike up with full choke, just before its warm, open the throat and get wot. Just hold it there until something else happens.

[Floppy disk]

The (mobile) mechanic had a look at it and he is sure it's an engine issue :argh:. $400 just to open and find the problem, and write a nice bill for parts and labour. Looks like it is gonna be a looooong way before I can ride it again. :doh:

[Akzle]

The (mobile) mechanic had a look at it and he is sure it's an engine issue :argh:. $400 just to open and find the problem, and write a nice bill for parts and labour. Looks like it is gonna be a looooong way before I can ride it again. :doh:
damn. That sounds unreasonable.

got a set of hex keys?

[Floppy disk]

damn. That sounds unreasonable.

got a set of hex keys?

Yes I do have the tools and I am not unfamiliar with opening the fairing and all. And honestly I might have to go through a "learning phase" and get more "adventurous" in a couple of months when my patience runs out. If the engine is stuffed I might as well get something out of it. LoL

[Akzle]

Yes I do have the tools and I am not unfamiliar with opening the fairing and all. And honestly I might have to go through a "learning phase" and get more "adventurous" in a couple of months when my patience runs out. If the engine is stuffed I might as well get something out of it. LoL

youll need to take off a bit more than fairings.

Park it in the lounge and make a start. If you run out of motivation your mum/ wife will be sure to provide.

[jonbuoy]

Dump the oil into a clean bucket and "pan" or filter it for bearing material. If it's cleanish and your not too ham fisted with tools whip off the cam cover and take a peak inside. It does sound more top end than bottom end from the video. I don't know these engines but have a google for cam chain top end issues. Really you just want to determine if your better off spending the money on a second hand engine- you don't want to waste 400 just to confirm that it's beyond repair.

[oneblackflag]

Yes I do have the tools and I am not unfamiliar with opening the fairing and all. And honestly I might have to go through a "learning phase" and get more "adventurous" in a couple of months when my patience runs out. If the engine is stuffed I might as well get something out of it. LoL

Are you saying your gonna run it for a couple more months? If you are I really like you :Punk:

[Floppy disk]

All right folks,

I took off the fairing and the bike is now naked. I then started it and followed the noise around, multiple times. It appears to be coming from the central upper section of the engine “box”. Using a screw driver to listen to vibration was a difficult exercise for me, maybe because I don’t have an expert’s feel for it.

I am trying to find a book on Ninja 2008’s engine so I can understand what is inside there that box, but if you know what that could be, please shoot through your thoughts.

What is puzzling is that except for that noise, and maybe a little loss of initial acceleration everything sounds and feels the same as before. Also, the cranking noise does not get louder as the accelerator is pulled. It certainly increases in frequency to match the bike's normal sounds, but does not increase in noise level.

I have uploaded a new video that you can view in this link: http://1drv.ms/1enKsy6 (22MB video).:sweatdrop

[James Deuce]

Have.

You.

Been.

To.

A.

Mechanic?

[Mike.Gayner]

The (mobile) mechanic had a look at it and he is sure it's an engine issue

He must be some kind of detective.

[Floppy disk]

Have. You. Been. To. A. Mechanic?

No. Any other interesting question? :Pokey:

[SNF]

Talk to another mechanic and get a second opinion? It does sound like sooner rather than later it will rattle itself to death.
If it was me I'd get a ZX14 motor and slot it in :ride:

Jokes aside, find a good running replacement motor, get a Haynes/Chilton book read it look over it, take your time and enjoy it. It looks like a huge job but its just logic. Bolts, screws, nuts and electrical connectors. Because it's the same engine, its a case of old one out, other one in. Label everything, number plugs, take pictures. Its all in the book, if you can take fairings off and you can read which I'm sure you can then you can do it!

[iranana]

Get yerself a torque wrench and have at it. It's hard to tell from the video, but that sounds like noise from the valve train or perhaps even piston slap or something similar... but I doubt it's piston slap if it went from no noise to lots of noise in three rides.

The fact it's a light clicking or slapping noise consistent with RPM leads me to think it's likely to be in the top end of the engine. At the very worst, you might be looking at worn conrods or a fucked needle roller at the big end...but I doubt it, unless you ran out of oil at some point, or if the bike has a loooot of mileage. Conrods are hard. They don't wear very easily.

Piece of cake to pull a top end apart, though. Get a manual and a torque wrench before taking anything apart, though. Bottom end noises are sound heavier... if your crank bearings are shot then you'll start to hear more of a deep rumbling, or a deep knocking kind of tock tock tock. They're more obvious at low RPM and aren't necessarily consistent. I'd be surprised if the conrods had worn enough to create play between the conrod and bearing face. I would advise against going to mechanics... easy to spend a couple of grand and then some more to have them beat around the bush.

[p.dath]

Cam chain plus cam chain tensioner?

[James Deuce]

No. Any other interesting question? :Pokey:

Just keep riding it then. Don't forget to post a You Tube video asking if you need that bit poking through the cases.
You're not saving any money. You're just making the eventual bill bigger.

[iranana]

You're not saving any money. You're just making the eventual bill bigger.

He's right. Not to mention that catastrophic engine failure can quite easily result in a crash. Riding your bike when it's making scary noises is not a good idea...

[schrodingers cat]

Get yerself a torque wrench and have at it. It's hard to tell from the video, but that sounds like noise from the valve train or perhaps even piston slap or something similar... but I doubt it's piston slap if it went from no noise to lots of noise in three rides.

The fact it's a light clicking or slapping noise consistent with RPM leads me to think it's likely to be in the top end of the engine. At the very worst, you might be looking at worn conrods or a fucked needle roller at the big end...but I doubt it, unless you ran out of oil at some point, or if the bike has a loooot of mileage. Conrods are hard. They don't wear very easily.

Piece of cake to pull a top end apart, though. Get a manual and a torque wrench before taking anything apart, though. Bottom end noises are sound heavier... if your crank bearings are shot then you'll start to hear more of a deep rumbling, or a deep knocking kind of tock tock tock. They're more obvious at low RPM and aren't necessarily consistent. I'd be surprised if the conrods had worn enough to create play between the conrod and bearing face. I would advise against going to mechanics... easy to spend a couple of grand and then some more to have them beat around the bush.

Lots of stuff is easy.

If you know how.

OP has admitted to not knowing too much. He could certainly take your advise and learn how to make a jigsaw. He would learn something in the process.

Possibly something along the lines of 'know your limits' and 'take it to a mechanic and pay him for his knowledge'

[Mo NZ]

Sounds ......bad....real bad.
You do have oil in that puppy?
May be easier to obtain a replacement engine.

[Floppy disk]

Ok. Let’s get this thread more helpful. Thank you to all those who suggested I do nothing and take the bike to the mechanic. I acknowledge reception of your wise message, and I will consult with mechanics when/if I can no longer push it forward. But to pay $400 just to open the engine and find the problem is a prelude to a huge expenditure, which I can't and won't do. I am now after advices on how to actually get closer to the problem. It is technical help that I am after, not life coaching.
:argh:

[Floppy disk]

Sounds ......bad....real bad.
You do have oil in that puppy?
May be easier to obtain a replacement engine.

Yeah there is still enough oil in it, and the oil is good quality. It does have high mileage though, so I am thinking it could be something that needs replacement. The noise while is not a good sign tells me it is coming from one place, so if that "thing" is replaced I might get away with cheaper cost. Getting a new engine might be a bit trickier to find so that would be my before-last resort. Kawasaki don't even sell engines as such.

[Mo NZ]

You might have a google around and find a Kwaka forum and play the sound.
If you do have to pull it out of the bike and take it apart.. it really is necessary to have some tools
and some tech skills. An online workshop book on the bike could be useful.
If it is a new engine a wrecker's 2nd motor would be the way to go.

[iranana]

But to pay $400 just to open the engine and find the problem is a prelude to a huge expenditure, which I can't and won't do. I am now after advices on how to actually get closer to the problem. It is technical help that I am after, not life coaching.
:argh:

We can only make educated guesses towards what it could be. Cell phone videos of a rattle don't tell us anything other than that it rattles a bit. There's a lot of things that could rattle like that, and you're not going to know unless you open it up and inspect everything... Feeler gauges are cheap, and they can tell you a lot. Also, remember that noises and shocks can travel through an engine and make it seem like they're coming from places they're not. So... my technical advice is: if you don't want to pay a mechanic, the only thing you can do is observe the noise, get a service manual and the necessary tools, take the time to study it, and then disassemble the engine, starting with the top end. Patience is the key... and don't skimp out and re use gaskets or anything. Copper gaskets can be annealed, but replace any paper gaskets with new ones. Air leaks are no good

[Floppy disk]

We can only make educated guesses towards what it could be. Cell phone videos of a rattle don't tell us anything other than that it rattles a bit. There's a lot of things that could rattle like that, and you're not going to know unless you open it up and inspect everything... Feeler gauges are cheap, and they can tell you a lot. Also, remember that noises and shocks can travel through an engine and make it seem like they're coming from places they're not. So... my technical advice is: if you don't want to pay a mechanic, the only thing you can do is observe the noise, get a service manual and the necessary tools, take the time to study it, and then disassemble the engine, starting with the top end. Patience is the key... and don't skimp out and re use gaskets or anything. Copper gaskets can be annealed, but replace any paper gaskets with new ones. Air leaks are no good

Gold! That's how I am actually thinking. Getting a lot of advices and documentations, and as some have suggested I would be putting the questions and the vids around various forums including Kawasaki forums. I am also planning to take advice from friends who are car mechanics. Isn't the engine principles the same anyway? Then, and at my own pace I will start opening things under video recording, labeling them, and then saving them. As per the tools, buying tools is always a good investment, but I can get a lot from friends. And sure enough I will be asking questions on this forum as I open the beast. But first thing will be suspending the registration. My plan is to get this beast sorted in 6 months time. Meanwhile, I will using the car (I hate cars).

[James Deuce]

Fucking hell. It would be easier and cheaper to organise getting it stolen than doing the utter bilge-swilling fuckwit diagnostic system way.

[buggerit]

You have saved yourself a few bucks removing the fairings but it is pretty obvious you have no mechanical knowledge , save yourself a
heap of grief and money by getting a mechanic to look at it and diagnose the fault, then you can decide wether to get it fixed or wait
until fianances allow.
It really pisses mechanics off cleaning up after an unhandy handyman as it makes the job harder and generally adds to the cost of the job.

[SMOKEU]

Gold! That's how I am actually thinking. Getting a lot of advices and documentations, and as some have suggested I would be putting the questions and the vids around various forums including Kawasaki forums. I am also planning to take advice from friends who are car mechanics. Isn't the engine principles the same anyway? Then, and at my own pace I will start opening things under video recording, labeling them, and then saving them. As per the tools, buying tools is always a good investment, but I can get a lot from friends. And sure enough I will be asking questions on this forum as I open the beast. But first thing will be suspending the registration. My plan is to get this beast sorted in 6 months time. Meanwhile, I will using the car (I hate cars).

Bike engines still follow the same principles of car engines, so if you have mates that are car mechanics, then they should be able to help. A good motorbike mechanic is still the best bet, but you should be able to get a much better price if you get mates rates.

[ducatilover]

It really pisses mechanics off cleaning up after an unhandy handyman as it makes the job harder and generally adds to the cost of the job.
This.
You have to go over every job they have done to make sure it's correct. Which means you still get a big bill.
I can't watch the vids on my phone so cannot comment.

You either need a proper service manual and some nice tools, or really give it to a mechanic. I would not advise spannering on it if you have no mechanical knowledge, the majority of numpties out there cannot accurately measure valve clearances, let alone set them correctly.


Fwiw, check for black sooty stains where the exhaust attatches to the engine.