How to grow the future of road racing in New Zealand

[Shaun Harris]

Letter/plan/idea I wrote in 2005 or 6 I think from memory, and posted out to ALL MNZ Road race licence holders at that time>

Road Racing promoter/coordinator

Please take the time to read and respond. Your comments are extremely important and without your feedback it makes it hard to make changes that will benefit our racing and enhance the future of our sport!

I am proposing the motorcycle fraternity Employ our own full time promoter/coordinator, until all responses are returned and sifted through the full job description is not possible to outline here but I will include what I would like to see this person doing.

Job Description

Coordination of all clubs for the race format,and information for riders and communication with MNZ office.
Re Writing the rules.
Promotional work with the media, series sponsors,importers,clubs,MNZ etc.
Negotiations for group bulk purchases for race products making our purchase price lower and already giving us a ROI ( return on investment)- will work for some but not others with full finance backing.

Rome was not built in a day and neither will this be, that is why I started doing this now because there will be a few issues to arrange to make this happen.

WHO TO EMPLOY

I suggest that we nominate 2 rider reps ( Referees) from each class and let this group go through all the resumes too make the choice.

How to pay this person

This is where I need you all to think long and hard about our racing and our sport and what it means to you the competitor/employer

I propose that we all invest $250-00 into this campaign into a holding account, I STILL have a company that will invest $5000-00 into this account if I can secure 100 licence holders to invest in there own passion/future. $250-00 dollars devided by 365 days = .69 cents PER DAY!!!!!!!!!

Here is what we have if this could be arranged.

100 Riders x $250-00 = $25-000 + $5000-00 from UNNAMED company = $30-000

$30-000 paid as a base salary to the coordinator with an agreed % of additional funds bought in from sponsors, this system will allow this person to go and work very hard to grow our sport and top up there salary very well I think.

I realise this may seem to simple but some of the best scemes in the world to date are simple and succesfull, there is no need for this to be difficult.


PLEASE PLEASE take your time to think this through fully before hitting the keys and replying. If this had happened back when I first drafted this plan, we would not be where we are now, so it is up to all of you the owners of our sport to make the required changes to get our sport back on a healthy level again.


# I will reply to questions that I have the awnsers to as soon as I can, or will find the awnsers and reply when I have them, but again please remember this is an idea I thought about for a long time before acting on it, as I could see way back then that we were heading down a path of destruction.

I see this taking at least 12 months to organise proffessionaly, and IF we could nominate ONE WEB SITE and a page for each class on that web site as well as a page for the punters to post in there idea's questions suggestions questions , that make it a lot easier to coordinate, and would like to see people posting in it with there Full real name and or MNZ Licence number.

[MVnut]

Great idea and great post Shaun :headbang:

[Shaun Harris]

Great idea and great post Shaun :headbang:




Thankyou.



http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/47538-For-the-good-of-road-racing-and-communication


PLEASE have your say all

[Dodgy]

Not too sure what caliber of promoter you will get for $30k + some maybe sponsorship, but a good idea regardless Shaun.

[Shaun Harris]

Not too sure what caliber of promoter you will get for $30k + some maybe sponsorship, but a good idea regardless Shaun.






The $30K is only there base mate, it is then up to the team to go through the resumes to choose the person that shows the best abbility to manage and sell sell sell to gain the agreed % of this towards there salary top up figure. I myself have had personell company sponsors here part with $25-000 just for there name in promotions I did for my own racing. The glass is already half full! if a positive approach is taken with this.

The naming writes alone of the series is worh good money if managed proffessionaly

[scrivy]

The $30K is only there base mate, it is then up to the team to go through the resumes to choose the person that shows the best abbility to manage and sell sell sell to gain the agreed % of this towards there salary top up figure.

The naming writes alone of the series is worh good money if managed proffessionaly

Depending on the % cut of the sponsors $'s, the promoter could make quite a bit more.....

BUT...... YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONING SERIES TO PROMOTE..... with great management, top riders, top teams, full fields etc......

[oyster]

Scrivvy has the key words here "top riders, top teams, full feilds. They don't come out of the cabbage patch Shaun. When you get them, there's 5 years of good honest development behind them. Our problem is we aren't producing enough of them. It makes me spew the short sighted attitude that creates comment like "we made this class and opportunity but you didn't turn up" The real work is in the model proven in every other (flourishing) sport : promote, recruit, train, support and reward - right across the age /skill spectrum. This is a club job, not MNZ's. Tell me how many clubs manage these critical matters consciously and effectively? Hard work, but these seeds sown will give depth and quality 5 years on. If you've got that, the rest sorts itself.

[Shaun Harris]

Depending on the % cut of the sponsors $'s, the promoter could make quite a bit more.....

BUT...... YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONING SERIES TO PROMOTE..... with great management, top riders, top teams, full fields etc......






BINGO.

Hence I said I think this will take around 12 months to implement correctly. There will be NO LOSS what so ever to MNZ as they will still be the licence issuing authority and recieving the income for that and I am very sure they would roll with this, as it relieves so much negativity of there backs for a start.


The current system of the sponsorship committee does not make them rich nor our sport any better that I can see and having the current system having to police all the dramas only costs them in money in terms of time spent on each matter, and time is money!

[budda]

BINGO.

Hence I said I think this will take around 12 months to implement correctly. There will be NO LOSS what so ever to MNZ as they will still be the licence issuing authority and recieving the income for that and I am very sure they would roll with this, as it relieves so much negativity of there backs for a start.


The current system of the sponsorship committee does not make them rich nor our sport any better that I can see and having the current system having to police all the dramas only costs them in money in terms of time spent on each matter, and time is money!

I'm sure many on here wont need reminded that MNZ has tried this approach - getting out of the arrangement wasn't the cheapest exercise either if I remember rightly

Not too many would agree that it worked as we hoped that time, but that's not to say it has no merit

[budda]

Depending on the % cut of the sponsors $'s, the promoter could make quite a bit more.....

BUT...... YOU HAVE TO HAVE A FULLY FUNCTIONING SERIES TO PROMOTE..... with great management, top riders, top teams, full fields etc......

Pull up a chair ( and a sh1tload of beer ) and settle in for my yearly lecture on "The Burger and The Box" ........ been boring people rigid with that one at every Conference for years - but I'm right:facepalm:

[Shaun Harris]

Scrivvy has the key words here "top riders, top teams, full feilds. They don't come out of the cabbage patch Shaun. When you get them, there's 5 years of good honest development behind them. Our problem is we aren't producing enough of them. It makes me spew the short sighted attitude that creates comment like "we made this class and opportunity but you didn't turn up" The real work is in the model proven in every other (flourishing) sport : promote, recruit, train, support and reward - right across the age /skill spectrum. This is a club job, not MNZ's. Tell me how many clubs manage these critical matters consciously and effectively? Hard work, but these seeds sown will give depth and quality 5 years on. If you've got that, the rest sorts itself.




We already have

Top Riders and good size fields

The model we use currently is fine for the next few years, but drastically needs cleaning up in terms of wording of rules and who to talk too about what and when ( here the Referee is added for a start)

Club are exactually that, full of passionate people ( NOT PAID A CENT) who have full time jobs and more important things to focus on, ie there family and morgages, so expecting the clubs to grow our sport realy is too much to ask from them I think. Hence the suggestion of our employed promoter to communicate and work with the clubs in terms of coordination and the day to day details of the correct proffessional running of our sport at the event each club will be hosting.

NOTHING NEGATIVE IN MY NEXT COMMENT


MNZ are ONLY the licence and Insurance dept of road racing, nothing more nothing less.

This is a show that can be taken on road and seriously promoted big time, starting at school visits etc for building our future racers interests, the marketing side of it would be increddibly easy to push along if " Thinking outside of the square was done with it"

SAFETY training = ACC money

School events = Manufacturers money etc etc etc

Many many many more options of additional funding out there still.

I know it all seems to easy and some will say I am talking out of my butty hole again, but believe me if you will, I know it can be done and will not give up trying untill it is done. It took me 16 years to WIN the Ilse of man TT races, some thing I said in print in 1991 I would do, tenacity and focus and a well planned Goal is all it will take! O- and ONLY 69 cents per day for 12 months from 100 People only to get the ball rolling. ( That is less than ONE cigarette per day for a smoker so no exscuses apart from appathy)

Step up folks and lets take this show on the road.

[Shaun Harris]

Please try and keep this thread on focus, as it is quite time consuming to read everything to discover that it is just some one talking shite, there are other threads for that team

[Akzle]

ill do it for free.

Conditions:
paid up bike. Maybe 3.
Cannabis will be allowed, if not required, at business meetings.
I get my own team of promo girls.

[Quasievil]

Love your Passion Shaun, we have had this discussion together a few times.
the BIGGEST issue with Bike racing in NZ (im being hard and Frank) is the Vast majority of NZrs dont give a flyin fuck about bike racing, this means neither do sponsors, this means there will never (as it is now) money in this for anyone.


I have used the term "the big show" on KB and in conversations for years, but until "a big show" is done its never going to change......................ok whats a big show Quasi ? good question my fellow KBrs, a Big show is just that, great racing with lots of extras, something for the whole family and dont be precious, bring in other forms of motorsports, bring in other attractions, bike racing on its own is just NOT enough

[Shaun Harris]

Love your Passion Shaun, we have had this discussion together a few times.
the BIGGEST issue with Bike racing in NZ (im being hard and Frank) is the Vast majority of NZrs dont give a flyin fuck about bike racing, this means neither do sponsors, this means there will never (as it is now) money in this for anyone.



I have used the term "the big show" on KB and in conversations for years, but until "a big show" is done its never going to change......................ok whats a big show Quasi ? good question my fellow KBrs, a Big show is just that, great racing with lots of extras, something for the whole family and dont be precious, bring in other forms of motorsports, bring in other attractions, bike racing on its own is just NOT enough



That we have and Agreed re the interest level to the general public but disagree with never being any money in it Brett. The problem with the lack of money has nothing to do with so called negative financuall situation we are coming out of ( Haha) it is all about the lack of planning and expecting MNZ to grow the show and breast feed it, along with typical apathy that has been in this sport since I first started in 1986 from the riders them selves! We the riders or MNZ members OWN MOTORCYCLING NEW ZEALAND but continuiously expect the office to read our minds and go and find $kz to throw at it for posters Radio television etc but how many get involved in helping clubs run the show, a hidiously small %.

With creative thinking potentuall series sponsors could be shown a genuine reason to invest in our sport, giving them a ROI for there commitment.

I know you will agree that we are living in a PC world these days, so for more extreme examples of idea's of how to make a part of this happen in terms of promotion for potentuall sponsors, Authority could be obtained from local PD ( Periodicks! detention centres and escuse my usuall crap spelling, this is not a buisness letter that I would grammar and spell check) to have select numbers of them walking around shops offering out posters to display race series dates events. OR SCHOOL CHILDREN as group bonding exercises.

As already mentioned, School days with select riders and machines giving talks to the students, put a suzuki or honda or what ever in a kids face enough and they will be interested in that brand name, subconcious memory is a very powerfull tool to use.

Radio stations are always hanging out for people on there shows, again this just need managing by the coordinator to make it happen.


WARNING EXTREME EXTREME- talk days as per at Schools at old folks rest homes, granny and grandpa appreciate it and talk about it with there family memebers and the word spreads on and on.


The grass roots need developing to build the future and with all things in life this starts with schooling and up bringing, but the above comment are jumping ahead of stages that require building in the first place to implement my long term idea's offered here re school days etc.


First up we need to commit and hire this promotor to build the plan and start implementing it, NO buisness starts and succeeds without a plan and a reasnoable cash flow.




In reply to your second part of your post, exactually man, the women need some thing to do with the kids apart from sit on a deck chair for 8 hours a day in not the best of conditions to be able to take the family for an outing whilst dad or son or daughter is doing skids having the time of there life, Simple.

WE NEED much better food suppliers than we annually get at race tracks in Nz, and that is up to negotiating with the track owners/controllers over the terms in which the tracks are hired, sorry I do not care if that is the way it has always been, it is another major thing that needs to change, and if that track will not change, we will not hire it, there loss not ours! there could be mobile hair dressers there even to satisfy some ladies and children, extreme idea;s YES, but all 100% achieveable healthy and positive.

Schools could put on life shows for the kids at these events, Hire centres WOULD supply gadgets ie bouncy carcells to promote there products and the options go on and on again, the problem again is, people seem to have forgotten we are now living in a PC modern world in the year 2014 currently with even that scarry thing called the internet where Instantly we can be in contact with the public.

To many people just focus on the past and negative issue's instead of taking a breath and counting to 10 and thinking about how to re build our sporting future, Nothing I said so far is unrealistic ( Out there creative yes) but again Rome was not built in a day and even the rolling stones took time to be accepted as a normal exciting part of life for young and old.

[Metastable]

Hopefully the times will become a bit more prosperous. Since 2008 road racing in various places has suffered. Just look at the Might AMA. For 2014 there is still no TV agreement for the Daytona 200 which is suppose to happen next weekend. The series is down to 5 rounds (from double digits a few years ago). There are no races in the Western USA AT ALL in 2014 with tracks like Circuit of the Americas, Miller, Laguna, Sears Point, Autoclub Speedway... etc all sitting idle.

[Shaun Harris]

Hopefully the times will become a bit more prosperous. Since 2008 road racing in various places has suffered. Just look at the Might AMA. For 2014 there is still no TV agreement for the Daytona 200 which is suppose to happen next weekend. The series is down to 5 rounds (from double digits a few years ago). There are no races in the Western USA AT ALL in 2014 with tracks like Circuit of the Americas, Miller, Laguna, Sears Point, Autoclub Speedway... etc all sitting idle.




Not correct mate, check out www.roadracing world.com and what John Ulrich has just announced, another 3 round series within the WERA championships.

True re NO TV still though





PS everything has to start from some where

[scrivy]

As already mentioned, School days with select riders and machines giving talks to the students, put a suzuki or honda or what ever in a kids face enough and they will be interested in that brand name, subconcious memory is a very powerfull tool to use.
Yip, done that myself, and even had Stroudy do it too!

Radio stations are always hanging out for people on there shows, again this just need managing by the coordinator to make it happen.
Must be a capable speaker - not to sound too munted......


In reply to your second part of your post, exactually man, the women need some thing to do with the kids apart from sit on a deck chair for 8 hours a day in not the best of conditions to be able to take the family for an outing whilst dad or son or daughter is doing skids having the time of there life, Simple.

WE NEED much better food suppliers than we annually get at race tracks in Nz...
there could be mobile hair dressers there even to satisfy some ladies and children, extreme idea;s YES, but all 100% achieveable healthy and positive.
Schools could put on life shows for the kids at these events, Hire centres WOULD supply gadgets ie bouncy carcells to promote there products and the options go on and on again


Exactly what Chris and I tried at the TRRS. FREE bouncy castles, FREE face painting, FREE activities for the kids (even balloon shape making) - so mum felt she wasn't wasting a whole day. FREE dinner and beers to ALL competitors and their hangers ons....
...oh, and a past riders re-union....
I wanted a family environment back then....... and it was growing.....

Now the Sidecars are invited and racing with the trucks at the Diesel and Demons meeting again... infront of a new audience with other nutter classes. Spectators love it.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Make a big round dirt oval and have 'em race around it from the age of three.

[Shaun Harris]

Exactly what Chris and I tried at the TRRS. FREE bouncy castles, FREE face painting, FREE activities for the kids (even balloon shape making) - so mum felt she wasn't wasting a whole day. FREE dinner and beers to ALL competitors and their hangers ons....
...oh, and a past riders re-union....
I wanted a family environment back then....... and it was growing.....

Now the Sidecars are invited and racing with the trucks at the Diesel and Demons meeting again... infront of a new audience with other nutter classes. Spectators love it.





You and Chris did awsome work with that mate, and FANTASTIC re racing with the trucks the people there will love i totally

[Shaun Harris]

Make a big round dirt oval and have 'em race around it from the age of three.






That is deff the future Crasher, and there just could just be a farm in Taranki in the very near future where such a thing can be done from- 2 parteners already agreed to the concept, the other is over seas for another 2 months though and does not want any contact whilst away holidaying with his family

[MVnut]

Love your Passion Shaun, we have had this discussion together a few times.
the BIGGEST issue with Bike racing in NZ (im being hard and Frank) is the Vast majority of NZrs dont give a flyin fuck about bike racing, this means neither do sponsors, this means there will never (as it is now) money in this for anyone.


I have used the term "the big show" on KB and in conversations for years, but until "a big show" is done its never going to change......................ok whats a big show Quasi ? good question my fellow KBrs, a Big show is just that, great racing with lots of extras, something for the whole family and dont be precious, bring in other forms of motorsports, bring in other attractions, bike racing on its own is just NOT enough

Completely disagree re 'The Big Show' ........however I do not have a viable alternative to bring the crowds in apart from good racing with participation of more than 1 (in general) manufacturer. Good on Suzuki for getting bikes on the grid and we are seeing a small involvement from the other Big 3, as well as the odd Euro. We do need more input and money spent from the Euro importers/dealers and same goes for Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha. We have great riders willing/wanting to race 'other' brands.....but the bikes need money and time spent to be competitive, no top racer wants to race a non-competitive bike. As I say, things are improving in this direction....I for one was bored seeing another Suzuki benefit (for instance) year after year. And don't say the other machines cannot be on the podium because when the right racer gets on board they sure can be. Money money money is what the sport needs unfortunately and most importers/dealers don't appear to want to be bothered, pathetic really.

[Akzle]

isle of new zealmand.
north and south editions.

Ill come up with a catchier name when the first bike gets here.

[Shaun Harris]

Completely disagree re 'The Big Show' ........however I do not have a viable alternative to bring the crowds in apart from good racing with participation of more than 1 (in general) manufacturer. Good on Suzuki for getting bikes on the grid and we are seeing a small involvement from the other Big 3, as well as the odd Euro. We do need more input and money spent from the Euro importers/dealers and same goes for Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha. We have great riders willing/wanting to race 'other' brands.....but the bikes need money and time spent to be competitive, no top racer wants to race a non-competitive bike. As I say, things are improving in this direction....I for one was bored seeing another Suzuki benefit (for instance) year after year. And don't say the other machines cannot be on the podium because when the right racer gets on board they sure can be. Money money money is what the sport needs unfortunately and most importers/dealers don't appear to want to be bothered, pathetic really.




unfortunately for the dealers, the margin in bike sales is worse than crap these days, yet over heads of running there shop continue to go up so I personally understand why less of them are involved these days. It is not the riders them selves that need this money to grow the sport again to bring in other potentuall sponsors though MVnut, it is the core controlling body that needs to spend money to make the show grow again.

We all end up in situations where we want want something but cannot afford it ie a new house for example with 4 instead of the needed 3 rooms, so it is realy up to the competitor to re focus there desire and budgets to be able to race competitively in the class they choose. The old saying of what wins on sunday sells on monday is LONG GONE man, so there is no justification for the manufacturers nor the dealers to spend/donate there buisneess hard earned profit margins, apart from good will PR!

The show really does need growing to bring in more potentuall racers and sponsors who enjoyed the show they attended. Often sponsorship comes due to some one knows some one who knows someone, rather than actuall results achieved by a competitor, so by creating a more veried variety spectacle this in tern over time brings in those potentuall cash suppliers required to keep going forward.

Obviously NOT saying I am write and you are wrong, just throwing different approaches/idea;s at you for consideration for more healthy comments from you regarding this, and thanks for taking the time to get involved in this at this stage of the game.

[Metastable]

Not correct mate, check out www.roadracing world.com and what John Ulrich has just announced, another 3 round series within the WERA championships.

True re NO TV still though

PS everything has to start from some where

I think what Ulrich is doing is great. Hopefully he can get the AMA guys to race at those events (if those events even take place). Technically though as of 1 week or so from the start of the AMA season there are 5 rounds on the table all in the eastern US. Even the AFM will have ~7 rounds in the California area.

Best of luck with your plans. These words from Ulrich are inspirational.

***************************

But back in the day people who hated the idea of AMA Superbike races had a million reasons why it couldn’t possibly work. Steve McLaughlin and Hurley Wilvert and I ignored the naysayers then, and that’s why we have AMA Superbike now.

A little over a decade ago there were people who had a million reasons why it wasn’t possible to deploy a fleet of soft barriers (think, Airfence) at AMA Pro events. Hundreds of racers, ex-racers, relatives of racers, fans, enthusiasts and businessmen joined me in ignoring the naysayers, and that’s why the Roadracing World Action Fund was able to supply an average of 130 sections of Airfence soft barriers (worth about $600,000 at current replacement prices) for deployment at AMA Pro road racing and dirt track events, year after year after year.

I’m going to ignore the naysayers again now, and continue to work on a solution for the problem at hand: Not enough televised road races for the surviving teams running in the AMA Pro Road Racing Series.

[Shaun Harris]

I think what Ulrich is doing is great. Hopefully he can get the AMA guys to race at those events (if those events even take place). Technically though as of 1 week or so from the start of the AMA season there are 5 rounds on the table all in the eastern US. Even the AFM will have ~7 rounds in the California area.

Best of luck with your plans. These words from Ulrich are inspirational.

***************************

But back in the day people who hated the idea of AMA Superbike races had a million reasons why it couldn’t possibly work. Steve McLaughlin and Hurley Wilvert and I ignored the naysayers then, and that’s why we have AMA Superbike now.

A little over a decade ago there were people who had a million reasons why it wasn’t possible to deploy a fleet of soft barriers (think, Airfence) at AMA Pro events. Hundreds of racers, ex-racers, relatives of racers, fans, enthusiasts and businessmen joined me in ignoring the naysayers, and that’s why the Roadracing World Action Fund was able to supply an average of 130 sections of Airfence soft barriers (worth about $600,000 at current replacement prices) for deployment at AMA Pro road racing and dirt track events, year after year after year.

I’m going to ignore the naysayers again now, and continue to work on a solution for the problem at hand: Not enough televised road races for the surviving teams running in the AMA Pro Road Racing Series.







His attitude sells me on the plans alone then add in his history contacts Finance base and being the optimist I are I am going with it as a plan cemented in place already. I did not read your first post correctly obviously like a blind man running. For the other coast and local boys an girls it will be really cool and the start of the regrow there

[MVnut]

unfortunately for the dealers, the margin in bike sales is worse than crap these days, yet over heads of running there shop continue to go up so I personally understand why less of them are involved these days. It is not the riders them selves that need this money to grow the sport again to bring in other potentuall sponsors though MVnut, it is the core controlling body that needs to spend money to make the show grow again.

We all end up in situations where we want want something but cannot afford it ie a new house for example with 4 instead of the needed 3 rooms, so it is realy up to the competitor to re focus there desire and budgets to be able to race competitively in the class they choose. The old saying of what wins on sunday sells on monday is LONG GONE man, so there is no justification for the manufacturers nor the dealers to spend/donate there buisneess hard earned profit margins, apart from good will PR!

The show really does need growing to bring in more potentuall racers and sponsors who enjoyed the show they attended. Often sponsorship comes due to some one knows some one who knows someone, rather than actuall results achieved by a competitor, so by creating a more veried variety spectacle this in tern over time brings in those potentuall cash suppliers required to keep going forward.

Obviously NOT saying I am write and you are wrong, just throwing different approaches/idea;s at you for consideration for more healthy comments from you regarding this, and thanks for taking the time to get involved in this at this stage of the game.

Yeah I do agree with you Shaun re profit margins on bikes/race and win on Sunday sell on Monday etc. It is an unfortunate state of affairs but we still need the importers (in particular) and dealers to get behind NZ Road Racing. Advertising is tax deductible ! As an example MV Agusta is showing some long lost promise on the World scene and there are one or two private entries coming in recently here.....but I wouldn't mind betting the Importer won't be making sure an MV is on the Supers (1000 or 675) grid next Championships. I hope I am wrong and will be the first to congratulate the importers if it happens. (hint; guys please make it happen) ... I am not picking on the MV guys here, just that MV is my passion as my friends know. I am considering putting a bike on the grid myself (even though I am emigrating at the end of this year, I'll come back for the season. ) If all the brands have the right backing what an amazing season would lie ahead.

[jellywrestler]

Now the Sidecars are invited and racing with the trucks at the Diesel and Demons meeting again... infront of a new audience with other nutter classes. Spectators love it.


and the Ferrari Festival too

[CHOPPA]

Less talk....

[nzspokes]

ok whats a big show Quasi ?

When you front up to race Crasher.

[Quasievil]

When you front up to race Crasher.

Sniping much.........you sad idiot

[Shaun Harris]

Please keep this on track team

[Shaun Harris]

Robert Taylor and Scott411 Realy looking forward to your guys opinions ideas on this one

[steveyb]

OK, so here is one opportunity to start the ball rolling with something constructive, but, it requires some work, of course.
While not a propos of a new series, new organisation or anything like that, it is a propos of a new way of marketing our game that has not to date really been tried.

So,
Sommet Sports have the rights to broadcast MotoGP in NZ for the next 3 years.

Sommet Sports are keen to broadcast local content as much as they can.

Sommet Sports however, are not yet content creators. They hope to be in the future, but are not yet there.

They are also often a bit light on content, and in particular content that is related to the main broadcast feature. E.g. The MotoGP might end up having Speedway or MotoX as the lead in because there is not much else.

But, if they can be supplied with broadcast quality content, they will look hard to schedule it in to match with a feature, e.g. MotoGP.

So, if the collective WE somehow are able to produce a series of 10-20 min items, then they will be able to show them.

In the first instance, a good idea is magazine type items identifying local racing identities, oddities, things/people of interest, like, oh I don't know, the IMD250 Pre-Moto3 bike as an example (hehehe).

Another really good example is a "fly on the wall" type doco following a team or rider for a "day at the races". Have some pre-written questions that the rider just answers during the bit with no input from an interviewer (it is about the rider and team, not the interviewer!) and capture the highs and lows of a race day.

These are REALLY successful vehicles and provide viewers with the human touch and can showcase sponsors too.

The challenge is in making these things broadcast quality and interesting. Everyone needs to make at least an attempt to be presentable and at least PG standards of language and behaviour, these sorts of things.

So, if there are any video makers out there, we are ready to have a go if you want to help get the ball rolling. Not for free either if you don't want to do it for free.
We might not even need to edit it up as my mate at Sommet, although very busy, is a professional editor, having also worked for the BBC at MotoGP for some time, and might be able to edit it up for us.

Contact me.

Cheers

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments IMD250

[Shaun Harris]

OK, so here is one opportunity to start the ball rolling with something constructive, but, it requires some work, of course.
While not a propos of a new series, new organisation or anything like that, it is a propos of a new way of marketing our game that has not to date really been tried.

So,
Sommet Sports have the rights to broadcast MotoGP in NZ for the next 3 years.

Sommet Sports are keen to broadcast local content as much as they can.

Sommet Sports however, are not yet content creators. They hope to be in the future, but are not yet there.

They are also often a bit light on content, and in particular content that is related to the main broadcast feature. E.g. The MotoGP might end up having Speedway or MotoX as the lead in because there is not much else.

But, if they can be supplied with broadcast quality content, they will look hard to schedule it in to match with a feature, e.g. MotoGP.

So, if the collective WE somehow are able to produce a series of 10-20 min items, then they will be able to show them.

In the first instance, a good idea is magazine type items identifying local racing identities, oddities, things/people of interest, like, oh I don't know, the IMD250 Pre-Moto3 bike as an example (hehehe).

Another really good example is a "fly on the wall" type doco following a team or rider for a "day at the races". Have some pre-written questions that the rider just answers during the bit with no input from an interviewer (it is about the rider and team, not the interviewer!) and capture the highs and lows of a race day.

These are REALLY successful vehicles and provide viewers with the human touch and can showcase sponsors too.

The challenge is in making these things broadcast quality and interesting. Everyone needs to make at least an attempt to be presentable and at least PG standards of language and behaviour, these sorts of things.

So, if there are any video makers out there, we are ready to have a go if you want to help get the ball rolling. Not for free either if you don't want to do it for free.
We might not even need to edit it up as my mate at Sommet, although very busy, is a professional editor, having also worked for the BBC at MotoGP for some time, and might be able to edit it up for us.

Contact me.

Cheers

Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments IMD250







Great thinking Steve. I contacted a film crew yesterday with the idea of attending the Manfeild round of the nationals this year to do some filming to present to Sommet sports with basically what you said in mind. I will Contact you direct when I get an awnser from them. The response as of 30 miuntes ago is they are interested but but as per usual at this stage. They have asked me if I would be prepared to be the front person doing the interviews etc of the riders and spectators.

[Akzle]

*etcetera*
Steve
Moto Academy NZ
Innovative Moto Developments IMD250

good idea. So good i had it last week.
The imd is probably of interest to a very small audience. But could be Fucking ace for getting the next generation of engineers on side.
Also how well patronised is sommet? i know their my preference cos most tv is shit. Do they have on demand type service? i see that being a big thing going forward...
Also, people who want to make this work have to start doing it for free.

[scrivy]

But, if they can be supplied with broadcast quality content, they will look hard to schedule it in to match with a feature, e.g. MotoGP.

So, if the collective WE somehow are able to produce a series of 10-20 min items, then they will be able to show them.

These are REALLY successful vehicles and provide viewers with the human touch and can showcase sponsors too.

The challenge is in making these things broadcast quality and interesting. Everyone needs to make at least an attempt to be presentable and at least PG standards of language and behaviour, these sorts of things.

So, if there are any video makers out there, we are ready to have a go if you want to help get the ball rolling. Not for free either if you don't want to do it for free.
We might not even need to edit it up as my mate at Sommet, although very busy, is a professional editor, having also worked for the BBC at MotoGP for some time, and might be able to edit it up for us.


How many riders have goPros? Surely we could make a cloud account or sumpn and each rider/team could deposit footage in there from each round. Get an editor to edit it and hey presto, we've got more race footage for them to show......

Even stuff made like this highlights our sport.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNj63Dtskk

[Akzle]

How many riders have goPros? Surely we could make a cloud account or sumpn and each rider/team could deposit footage in there from each round. Get an editor to edit it and hey presto, we've got more race footage for them to show......

Even stuff made like this highlights our sport.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLNj63Dtskk

fuck. Gopro and youtube must love all the free advertising they get.

[scott411]

not a bad Plan, but the problems i see,

1. getting 20-40 pepple to pay the money will be easy, to get 100 to pay i think will be very hard,

2. most of the races are run by volunteers, they tend not to like paid people telling them what to do,

Most racers do it for fun, not for the glory, not to make money, but basically they just like going fast on motorcycles, thats why track days are so popular,

We live in a different world to when you and I started racing, (i got my first NZACU liceinse in 1986) people work bigger hours, have less time off and are more selfish with the time they have to themselves, I am not sure this would change that,

[CHOPPA]

I dont see why everything needs to change, we have good class numbers, the standard of riders is very high considering we have no professional riders. Sponsors are out there if your willing to put in the effort.

Motorcycle racing is a sport. We do it for FUN. It is not a profession, trying to push to find the next Aaron Slight is a nice goal but your forcing a lot of pressure and debt onto young racers.

Racing a superbike is affordable. Just because the leading riders are spending $$$ it doesnt mean you have to. You wouldnt beat them anyway.

[Akzle]

Fuken. Ive read the blurb. Mnz has 6k members if their websites to be believed. Thats 4dollars someshit/member, to achieve the same salary for teh promoter.

Fuck i would win that shit if i was tptb.

Racing a superbike is affordable. Just because the leading riders are spending $$$ it doesnt mean you have to. You wouldnt beat them anyway.

there was this one guy, britten....

[CHOPPA]

Fuken. Ive read the blurb. Mnz has 6k members if their websites to be believed. Thats 4dollars someshit/member, to achieve the same salary for teh promoter.

Fuck i would win that shit if i was tptb.


there was this one guy, britten....

I was not around in that era but im pretty sure John Britten didnt race?

[jasonu]

I was not around in that era but im pretty sure John Britten didnt race?

I thought he raced classics at one point.

[gammaguy]

isle of new zealmand.
north and south editions.

Ill come up with a catchier name when the first bike gets here.

So what is your racing experience?any constructive ideas?

I'm pretty sure we would all like this to stay on topic


For what it's worth It would like to see a professionally promoted series


I was part of the phenominally successful sound of thunder series in the late 80s early 90s as a racer, official and organiser, the formula works.

[Akzle]

So what is your racing experience?any constructive ideas?

I'm pretty sure we would all like this to stay on topic


For what it's worth It would like to see a professionally promoted series


I was part of the phenominally successful sound of thunder series in the late 80s early 90s as a racer, official and organiser, the formula works.

i thought isle of nu zealman was a pretty good one.
Ive given my speil to thems what thinks about these things.
Pretty sure this has stayed on topic.
My racing experience is limited to being audience.

[CHOPPA]

So what is your racing experience?any constructive ideas?

I'm pretty sure we would all like this to stay on topic


For what it's worth It would like to see a professionally promoted series


I was part of the phenominally successful sound of thunder series in the late 80s early 90s as a racer, official and organiser, the formula works.

Your missing one thing grom your formula. Its not the 90s....

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with racing in NZ? Id like to hear from a current modern racer.

[Billy]

Your missing one thing grom your formula. Its not the 90s....

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with racing in NZ? Id like to hear from a current modern racer.

Not much Sloan,

The biggest issue is that everybody has their own ideas how it should be and won't even stop to consider anybody else's ideas,Simply until everybodies on the same page,It will stay as it is,Also there appears to be a large number of "cup half empty" types sniping around the edges with big ideas that hold little relevance to the big picture and theyre not prepared to put their money where their mouth is and front up,Not many of those that snipe around the edges claiming they know everything were happy with the format I set for NZSBK 2014,BUT,The FACTS are,Entries for the South Island rounds were up 50%,It costs $200 less in entry fees to do the whole series,Less travel and accomodation,Less time off work and away from home,More revenue for the clubs,Still not good enough,Theres your answer right there,No matter what happens and who does it,It just won't be up to scratch,Quite honestly I put a good crew together for this series and we all work well together,We had some plans to improve for 2015 and run the thing as a stand alone series that is even better organised,We were working on a number of areas too improve,But quite frankly,They have had enough of the bullshit from certain areas and won't be back,So that means from the end of the series onwards,Its back to square one and that cycle continues on and on as more volunteers walk away from the sport,Time for these experts in the South Island to show us what they got,OR fuck off for good and let the doers get on with the job.

[Shaun Harris]

not a bad Plan, but the problems i see,

1. getting 20-40 pepple to pay the money will be easy, to get 100 to pay i think will be very hard,

2. most of the races are run by volunteers, they tend not to like paid people telling them what to do,

Most racers do it for fun, not for the glory, not to make money, but basically they just like going fast on motorcycles, thats why track days are so popular,

We live in a different world to when you and I started racing, (i got my first NZACU liceinse in 1986) people work bigger hours, have less time off and are more selfish with the time they have to themselves, I am not sure this would change that,






Thanks for your thoughts on this Scott.

[Shaun Harris]

Not much Sloan,

The biggest issue is that everybody has their own ideas how it should be and won't even stop to consider anybody else's ideas,Simply until everybodies on the same page,It will stay as it is,Also there appears to be a large number of "cup half empty" types sniping around the edges with big ideas that hold little relevance to the big picture and theyre not prepared to put their money where their mouth is and front up,Not many of those that snipe around the edges claiming they know everything were happy with the format I set for NZSBK 2014,BUT,The FACTS are,Entries for the South Island rounds were up 50%,It costs $200 less in entry fees to do the whole series,Less travel and accomodation,Less time off work and away from home,More revenue for the clubs,Still not good enough,Theres your answer right there,No matter what happens and who does it,It just won't be up to scratch,Quite honestly I put a good crew together for this series and we all work well together,We had some plans to improve for 2015 and run the thing as a stand alone series that is even better organised,We were working on a number of areas too improve,But quite frankly,They have had enough of the bullshit from certain areas and won't be back,So that means from the end of the series onwards,Its back to square one and that cycle continues on and on as more volunteers walk away from the sport,Time for these experts in the South Island to show us what they got,OR fuck off for good and let the doers get on with the job.







would the following positions help in anyway

1x the SAME Technical officer at each round for consistency

1x the same Referee at each round to controll the awnsers to the riders to keep the consistency going

Or to ask the above question in a different way, are you prepared to outline clearly and completely what and where you see the problems to be that are causing the walk out of important parties in the racing here in nz Billy

And bloody well done on helping grow the numbers on track again, Im sure the club bank accounts appreciate your work and effort done at no cost to them.

[MVnut]

Time for these experts in the South Island to show us what they got,OR fuck off for good and let the doers get on with the job.

You have a way with words, a wonder anyone ever wants to work with you.

[Shaun Harris]

You have a way with words, a wonder anyone ever wants to work with you.




come on MV you are bigger and more mature than the above actions show man. Please keep adding your personell opinions on how to make things better for all involved and just let the negatives you take personally have a seat in the back ground dude, if I can I know 100% you can.

We really do need to here direct from the coal face his opinion of what and where the problems are if things can be changed for the benifit of all fantastic and as I know you will understand, as the commisioner of road racing Billy has had to deal with all of them for the sport and lots of personell attacks as well, so please just give him room to voice his thoughts on the future mate

[Billy]

would the following positions help in anyway

1x the SAME Technical officer at each round for consistency

1x the same Referee at each round to controll the awnsers to the riders to keep the consistency going

Or to ask the above question in a different way, are you prepared to outline clearly and completely what and where you see the problems to be that are causing the walk out of important parties in the racing here in nz Billy

And bloody well done on helping grow the numbers on track again, Im sure the club bank accounts appreciate your work and effort done at no cost to them.

Haha,Nice one,You know who they are following our phone conversations,You also know I can not divulge the true reasons......YET.

You'd think the last sentence in your post would be true and yet the glass half full peeps,Still found reason to complain,Can you guess where they are from??? Round 2 at Levels run by South Canterbury was a breeze,Grant Ramage,Pete Walsh and Adele were onboard right from the get go,Fully understood what was expected and if there was anything they required,So long as it was within reason,Their needs were met,I have NO doubt in my mind,Them and Andrew Presant and his team are by far the best organisers in the country.

[Billy]

You have a way with words, a wonder anyone ever wants to work with you.

Yip,

Its true I don't hold back or take shit from wannabees,Quite frankly I don't want to work with backstabbing hypocrites anyway,They know who they are and the folks that can see the big picture are happy to work with me,Not that they have that choice anymore,Some will be glad I'm gone,Some will be disappointed,Either way,Atleast I was prepared to make the changes I thought needed to be made and didn't just stand back and criricise those that are trying.

[Billy]

would the following positions help in anyway

1x the SAME Technical officer at each round for consistency

1x the same Referee at each round to controll the awnsers to the riders to keep the consistency going

Or to ask the above question in a different way, are you prepared to outline clearly and completely what and where you see the problems to be that are causing the walk out of important parties in the racing here in nz Billy

And bloody well done on helping grow the numbers on track again, Im sure the club bank accounts appreciate your work and effort done at no cost to them.

Oops,

Forgot to answer some of your post,
We have for NZSBK 2014 A series clerk of course,Race secretary,MNZ Steward,Riders rep,and until last week when I was informed I could no longer be the Tech steward,We had one of those for the series as well,Works very well when the host club allows it to,As ans aside,Following the decision of the recently heard appeal,I can not find anybody to replace me as they simply do not see any point enforcing the rules on the day,When the "wise council" will over rule them further down the track,Any ideas??????

[MVnut]

come on MV you are bigger and more mature than the above actions show man. Please keep adding your personell opinions on how to make things better for all involved and just let the negatives you take personally have a seat in the back ground dude, if I can I know 100% you can.

We really do need to here direct from the coal face his opinion of what and where the problems are if things can be changed for the benifit of all fantastic and as I know you will understand, as the commisioner of road racing Billy has had to deal with all of them for the sport and lots of personell attacks as well, so please just give him room to voice his thoughts on the future mate

Shaun I probably took Billy's comment personally, and I shouldn't, sorry about that. And apologies to Billy too, I know how difficult some jobs are and some people are, you do your best to work with it. Obviously we need to appeal to 2 general areas....1)the riders/teams/entrants/sponsors, and 2) general public to get them along. As far as public go, there are lots of thoughts re bouncy castles, V-8s, truck racing etc...but all we really need is the best representation of motorcycle racing possible with all (as many as possible anyway) manufacturers represented. Remember when all the boys turned up in proddy racing, (or the Marlboro Series) even some Euros....tyre manufacturers all wanted a piece of action, sponsoring races/events...oil guys too....parts companies...etc. There was always a small gate fee (but not too much to stop people coming....greed is bad) and racers that did well made a bit of loot too along with sponsors prizes......OK the '70s was almost as far back as the dark ages, but we can do it even better now with all the tech at our fingertips. I know getting a crosssection of the brands on the grid is really hard, but I firmly believe this is the first step necessary to bring back the public.....this year I would not even be watching the Nats, except we have a competitive Nick Cole on a Kawi...great stuff!!! We need more, and more Yammies, Hondas, MVs etc. I wish I could think of a suitable carrot to dangle in the face of importers (and dealers) to stump up a bike or 2 (and a bit of courage ! ) ....Shaun, maybe I should set up a 675 MV for you next season????

[gammaguy]

Your missing one thing grom your formula. Its not the 90s....

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with racing in NZ? Id like to hear from a current modern racer.

The formula stays the same and can be adapted to current environment


Current modern racers can and should have plenty to say, as do those who have vast experience at all levels of the sport, it needs input from everyone to improve, and from the comments I have been reading a lot of people think it needs to.

[scracha]

Key phrase I again picked up on was Proddy Racers

[Billy]

Key phrase I again picked up on was Proddy Racers

So,Have you entered for the TT at Taupo?????

[CHOPPA]

The formula stays the same and can be adapted to current environment


Current modern racers can and should have plenty to say, as do those who have vast experience at all levels of the sport, it needs input from everyone to improve, and from the comments I have been reading a lot of people think it needs to.

No this is where I see the problem, all the racers are seem to be happy its only the people that dont race that seem to be the experts. If it aint broke dont fix it. No one has explained to me what is wrong?

[CHOPPA]

There are no other riders in NZ that do as much racing in NZ as I do. I do street races, club racers all up and down the north and south island year round and all the national rounds. I race Motocross in NZ and occasionally in Australia. I race the Australia Superbike Series. I have sponsors that are happy with the exposure they get. I dont see what the problem in NZ is except for people saying theres a problem.

I have had dealings with MNZ and they have been great to deal with. There might be shit going down internally with officials etc which is sad but dealing with them if following the correct channels is always a pleasure

[scott411]

There are no other riders in NZ that do as much racing in NZ as I do. I do street races, club racers all up and down the north and south island year round and all the national rounds. I race Motocross in NZ and occasionally in Australia. I race the Australia Superbike Series. I have sponsors that are happy with the exposure they get. I dont see what the problem in NZ is except for people saying theres a problem.

I have had dealings with MNZ and they have been great to deal with. There might be shit going down internally with officials etc which is sad but dealing with them if following the correct channels is always a pleasure

pretty great reply here, Shaun why do you want to change the current system, what are you major problems with it?

[suzuki21]

I dont see why everything needs to change, we have good class numbers, the standard of riders is very high considering we have no professional riders. Sponsors are out there if your willing to put in the effort.

Motorcycle racing is a sport. We do it for FUN. It is not a profession, trying to push to find the next Aaron Slight is a nice goal but your forcing a lot of pressure and debt onto young racers.

Racing a superbike is affordable. Just because the leading riders are spending $$$ it doesnt mean you have to. You wouldnt beat them anyway.

I totally agree Chop. The problem I think is we are a country of 4 million which is really the same as a small city overseas. There is not a lot of money around and ROAD RACING IS A MINORITY SPORT! People are expecting far to much.

[jellywrestler]

we had seven internationals in the formula one class for each round of the suzuki series, SEVEN in F1.
we haven't had anywhere near that since the malboro series, i agreee with Chop, whatever we're doing we're doing well, only thing that may push us forward is NZSBK on Sommett sports.
have you all contacted Somett to push for it?/?

[Shaun Harris]

pretty great reply here, Shaun why do you want to change the current system, what are you major problems with it?




Scott after watching what has gone down re the 250 prody class situation with one bike and how the appeal process has gone on and the feed back on here alone from people involved with it, I thought it was time to ask out loud what and where the problems are with our Road racing sport.

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

So what it all comes down to as far as I can see it from a spectators point of view ( NEW WANTA BEES and Mum and Dads the future of our sport) who reads a lot of stuff on PUBLIC web sites about racing in NZ) the system is so screwed up it needs changing so it can be managed by using systems putting in place and worded clearly that there is no interpretation to the rules and procedurres.

RACE FORMAT AND ENTRIES

This season is using the same race format and numbers on the grid have grown, so huge congratulations to the current crew organising all this yet this crew is all leaving the sport for different reasons ( Or a lot of them are) that is directing all the warning signalls to me directly back to the office system and the way it is written and operated on.

As Sloan has said which I have always agreed with, the sponsorship is out there if you get of your butts and be creative and chase it.

To me again it comes down to the office plan and the wording of it, and this is NOT AN ATTACK of the typical one MNZ, although the problem does lay at the feet with these issues. But in there defence, they cannot fix what is broke if we do not tell them/ask them to.

I started this thread to try and get feed back from people to see if my thinking was correct and I deffinately think it is after reading all comments in both threads.

ONE WEEKEND

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

Get smoothness and consinstency flowing from the office and this alone will be helping the sport grow, the rest of it is promotions/tv/crowds/groth will naturally follow as people always like to attach them selves to a smooth sailing ship.

[Kickaha]

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

It would not make the slightest difference, people will always interpret the written word as they want to, unless of course you want a rule book the size of Encyclopedia Britannica to cover every possible scenario and then you'd probably still miss some

You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken

[steveyb]

we had seven internationals in the formula one class for each round of the suzuki series, SEVEN in F1.
we haven't had anywhere near that since the malboro series, i agreee with Chop, whatever we're doing we're doing well, only thing that may push us forward is NZSBK on Sommett sports.
have you all contacted Somett to push for it?/?

Post 34 Spyda.

The challenge comes down to Broadcast Quality.
It is one thing having a free live-stream on the internet that aficionados will follow 'cos they just want to.
It is another having a quality product that TV viewers will watch and not screw their noses up at.
It is very difficult and expensive to cover motorbike racing on the track, well.
It is another thing altogether to produce quality magazine type items that can be inserted before races, during breaks, afterwards etc that can be good quality and can provide exposure for the sport and its participants, sponsors and supporters.
As mentioned, Sommet want content, but cannot create it yet. If we can provide content that can get a conversation going out there, then maybe we can be first cab off the rank in the future?

[Billy]

Scott after watching what has gone down re the 250 prody class situation with one bike and how the appeal process has gone on and the feed back on here alone from people involved with it, I thought it was time to ask out loud what and where the problems are with our Road racing sport.

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

So what it all comes down to as far as I can see it from a spectators point of view ( NEW WANTA BEES and Mum and Dads the future of our sport) who reads a lot of stuff on PUBLIC web sites about racing in NZ) the system is so screwed up it needs changing so it can be managed by using systems putting in place and worded clearly that there is no interpretation to the rules and procedurres.

RACE FORMAT AND ENTRIES

This season is using the same race format and numbers on the grid have grown, so huge congratulations to the current crew organising all this yet this crew is all leaving the sport for different reasons ( Or a lot of them are) that is directing all the warning signalls to me directly back to the office system and the way it is written and operated on.

As Sloan has said which I have always agreed with, the sponsorship is out there if you get of your butts and be creative and chase it.

To me again it comes down to the office plan and the wording of it, and this is NOT AN ATTACK of the typical one MNZ, although the problem does lay at the feet with these issues. But in there defence, they cannot fix what is broke if we do not tell them/ask them to.

I started this thread to try and get feed back from people to see if my thinking was correct and I deffinately think it is after reading all comments in both threads.

ONE WEEKEND

Two full days of 4-10 people who can read and write could re word the whole rule book and procedures required to manage Road racing in new zealand fairly and smoothly and have these in hard copy before the AGM this year with the view to implimenting the new written bible.

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

Get smoothness and consinstency flowing from the office and this alone will be helping the sport grow, the rest of it is promotions/tv/crowds/groth will naturally follow as people always like to attach them selves to a smooth sailing ship.

Count me out mate,I am NOT interested in working with MNZ in anyway while the board retains the members it has,I have faith in the President only,You'll need to find someone else to work with them I'm afaraid,Ive wasted enough of my time already.

But heres a puzzle for you to start with,How can a steward have not followed the correct procedure,When said procedure DOES NOT EXIST.But wait,Don't bother trying to work it out,The sporting Tribunal is going to do that for us.

[cowboyz]

Your missing one thing grom your formula. Its not the 90s....

Can someone explain to me what is wrong with racing in NZ? Id like to hear from a current modern racer.

Racing is expensive. And when you get people saying it's only $20k or $30k so it's cheap that's not cheap. It's alot of money and in recent years (05-current) I have seen alot of talent not on the track sur to financial constraints. It cost me $10k to race in 2010-11 in clubman and my 1998 bike was up against 2007 r1 and rsv4 and the like. Mate was racing in f2 and paid over 20k to run mid field. While it's great to see the fast guys on the track there isn't alot of fun being a mobile chicane in race mode. This brings it back to the development classes where young guys learn to race rather than ride fast. The sport has been dominated by the over 40 for some time and the young ones haven't been coming through. Why is that?
Sloan, you must feel the difference between racing in oz and racing here? Seeing a few races over there the quality of training and experience seems to be alot higher than what is here.
Getting the nationals as an event is a great idea. I took the girl to wanganui this year and I have been plenty of times and I'm quite content to sit and watch bikes go pay and smoke a pack of cigs. It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz. All the stuff Shaun is trying to do is great and making events events worth paying to attend

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[CHOPPA]

Racing is expensive. And when you get people saying it's only $20k or $30k so it's cheap that's not cheap. It's alot of money and in recent years (05-current) I have seen alot of talent not on the track sur to financial constraints. It cost me $10k to race in 2010-11 in clubman and my 1998 bike was up against 2007 r1 and rsv4 and the like. Mate was racing in f2 and paid over 20k to run mid field. While it's great to see the fast guys on the track there isn't alot of fun being a mobile chicane in race mode. This brings it back to the development classes where young guys learn to race rather than ride fast. The sport has been dominated by the over 40 for some time and the young ones haven't been coming through. Why is that?
Sloan, you must feel the difference between racing in oz and racing here? Seeing a few races over there the quality of training and experience seems to be alot higher than what is here.
Getting the nationals as an event is a great idea. I took the girl to wanganui this year and I have been plenty of times and I'm quite content to sit and watch bikes go pay and smoke a pack of cigs. It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz. All the stuff Shaun is trying to do is great and making events events worth paying to attend

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The money that you spend should be relative to the speed you can ride. If you can run close to lap record then your budget might be very high. If you are 5 seconds off the lap record your budget should be really low. If you have no money, your budget should be very low and if you have a lot of money and your happy to spend it then do what you please :)

If anyone is interested in how to make your racing more affordable I am more than happy to show you how to save money

After seeing what is going on in Australia I would say that NZ is doing extremely well in all respects

[cowboyz]

Do you think we (as nzders) have nothing to learn from across the ditch? From what u see there are 2 sides. Getting full fields on the track and the other is getting spectators interested in watching. They seem related to me. If Joe public wanted to see bikes go round a track then why aren't the stands full on track days? I think people want to see close fast racing. But when I say people I mean a few.. I doubt we will ever see crowds at say the nationals that we see at a rugby game. In saying that. I have seen some international cricket games that there are more guys out on the field than in the stands.

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[jellywrestler]

It wasn't til I took the girl that I realised how little there was there. Shit food. No stalls to speak of. Couldn't find anywhere to buy earplugs or ear muffs. Shopping was extremely limited. This was at what I consider to be the pinnacle of street racing in nz. one thing you're fighting with the Cemetery Circuit being on Boxing day is a lot of people have simply knocked off. It's their holiday too.
You could've always taken her into the Cemetery and played Stinky Finger...

[CHOPPA]

Do you think we (as nzders) have nothing to learn from across the ditch? From what u see there are 2 sides. Getting full fields on the track and the other is getting spectators interested in watching. They seem related to me. If Joe public wanted to see bikes go round a track then why aren't the stands full on track days? I think people want to see close fast racing. But when I say people I mean a few.. I doubt we will ever see crowds at say the nationals that we see at a rugby game. In saying that. I have seen some international cricket games that there are more guys out on the field than in the stands.

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Not really mate they are in dire straights. There national championship has all bit fallen over. 6 rounds cut down to 3 and only the first round is a certainty at this stage.

They have another breakaway series that all the rider's are doing this year so hopefully that goes off.

On average it costs $900 nzd entry fee per round! People complain here at $270

[Kiwi Graham]

No this is where I see the problem, all the racers are seem to be happy its only the people that dont race that seem to be the experts. If it aint broke dont fix it. No one has explained to me what is wrong?


There are no other riders in NZ that do as much racing in NZ as I do. I do street races, club racers all up and down the north and south island year round and all the national rounds. I race Motocross in NZ and occasionally in Australia. I race the Australia Superbike Series. I have sponsors that are happy with the exposure they get. I dont see what the problem in NZ is except for people saying theres a problem.

Mate from a racer, organiser and officials perspective the simple answer is not much.
We are getting big grids at Club level in all classes
We have more club members involved with both the Tri series and Nationals
We have Club members competing internationally too.
Our rider training is going from strength to strength providing a steady stream of new racers into Clubmans and beyond

This whole rules milarky is nothing new, even the top tier of racing is having a shit fight at the moment http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2014/Mar/140306october.htm

But for some rule interpretations that have a few people jumping up and down we look in pretty good shape from where I'm standing. Rules are always going to be tested, always have done always will be.

As you were.......
KG

[budda]

Now in this thread and the other thread it is blattently obvious to me that there is NO PROBLEM as such re the actuall racing and race format, ( Apart from perhaps some club peoples involvement of how they run there meeting) top riders and lower level riders are happy.

1) The problem we have with racing in new zealand is blindingly obvious, it starts with they choice of words used in the way the rules are written ie to MANY avenues left open for people to move down which are away from the intent of the written rule

2) the way certain officuals perform there positions which again comes back to the way they have INTERPRETED the rules them selves and acted on them based on what they think.

There is only ONE person who is able to "interpret" the rules - that is the Commissioner. HIS "interpretation" IS the official one under the rules ........

This would REQUIRE BILLY to attend also though to outline issues he has had with trying to operate his position for us all by showing us clear scenarios of what went wrong and where.

THAT will be a VERY big ask .... I know better than most exactly what he's had to put in, and also what he's had to put up with. The Man has done his share ........ Thank him by leaving him alone

Also need to be clear, the job you're talking about is a Promoter - the Commissioner has to take the whole countries roadracing under his umbrella - something that an awful lot of people cant grasp .... the Sport IS much much bigger than your local Club

.

Dunno how to do the clever bits, see above for my comments ( in bold )

[Paul in NZ]

I don't understand these posts?

Why is there always so much unhappiness around racing?

For what its worth - if you want a good race get it organised by an ex racer, if you want a good event get it organised by an event organiser...

[Shaun Harris]

Dunno how to do the clever bits, see above for my comments ( in bold )








Your bold comments of my post is exactaually why I have asked out loud how to make the sport grow Budda.

Is there any training programme or written guidlines in place on how to be the commisioner for Road racing or is it just they make up as they go along believing they are Interpreting the wording correctly?

[Shaun Harris]

It would not make the slightest difference, people will always interpret the written word as they want to, unless of course you want a rule book the size of Encyclopedia Britannica to cover every possible scenario and then you'd probably still miss some

You're trying to fix something that isn't really broken



Thanks for your healthy comments Kickaha, but if nothing is broken, why are some of the best coordinators/ doers walking away from the sport mate?

[roogazza]

I don't understand these posts?
Why is there always so much unhappiness around racing?

I don't know if there is that much unhappiness Paul.
Maybe when Shaun gets a job the thread will die ? Speaking of who, where is he its been 24 hrs ! :lol::lol:

[Shaun Harris]

Mate from a racer, organiser and officials perspective the simple answer is not much.
We are getting big grids at Club level in all classes
We have more club members involved with both the Tri series and Nationals
We have Club members competing internationally too.
Our rider training is going from strength to strength providing a steady stream of new racers into Clubmans and beyond

This whole rules milarky is nothing new, even the top tier of racing is having a shit fight at the moment http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2014/Mar/140306october.htm

But for some rule interpretations that have a few people jumping up and down we look in pretty good shape from where I'm standing. Rules are always going to be tested, always have done always will be.

As you were.......
KG


Graham in your postion with the AMCC then, what round of the NZ Champs are the largest club ( I believe the AMCC to still be the largest ) in new zealand running of the Current championship mate

[Shaun Harris]

I don't know if there is that much unhappiness Paul.
Maybe when Shaun gets a job the thread will die ? Speaking of who, where is he its been 24 hrs ! :lol::lol:




haha Roogazza. Is my passion for our sport to over the top and do you think I am asking questions and trying to promote action that does not need talking about and acting on? To me it is a majority rules scenario and unless you ask you do not know?

[budda]

Your bold comments of my post is exactaually why I have asked out loud how to make the sport grow Budda.

Is there any training programme or written guidlines in place on how to be the commisioner for Road racing or is it just they make up as they go along believing they are Interpreting the wording correctly?

THAT is why I've tried to stay in contact with The Billy, so he could get a feel for why certain things were in place, or happen the way they do. Ditto Paul S gave me guidance at times.

The job grows in front of your eyes, even WITH "help" - to go in cold and have no historical knowledge would be overwhelming in my view. The Commissioner is tasked with running his side of the Sport, the Board is there to liaise with and enable him, and are at the Top of the food chain

[Robert Taylor]

Completely disagree re 'The Big Show' ........however I do not have a viable alternative to bring the crowds in apart from good racing with participation of more than 1 (in general) manufacturer. Good on Suzuki for getting bikes on the grid and we are seeing a small involvement from the other Big 3, as well as the odd Euro. We do need more input and money spent from the Euro importers/dealers and same goes for Honda/Kawasaki/Yamaha. We have great riders willing/wanting to race 'other' brands.....but the bikes need money and time spent to be competitive, no top racer wants to race a non-competitive bike. As I say, things are improving in this direction....I for one was bored seeing another Suzuki benefit (for instance) year after year. And don't say the other machines cannot be on the podium because when the right racer gets on board they sure can be. Money money money is what the sport needs unfortunately and most importers/dealers don't appear to want to be bothered, pathetic really.

Its not pathetic, they don't make any money out of roadbike sales and so many people are bringing in stuff directly so who can blame them for closing their chequebooks? If it wasn't for Suzukis efforts there would be no credible topline racing. Given that they have been ripped off by more than a few its a wonder they have any involvement at all.

Aside from the above reality there are a number of initiatives in place but sifting through blinkered mentality is an issue.

[Shaun Harris]

THAT is why I've tried to stay in contact with The Billy, so he could get a feel for why certain things were in place, or happen the way they do. Ditto Paul S gave me guidance at times.

The job grows in front of your eyes, even WITH "help" - to go in cold and have no historical knowledge would be overwhelming in my view. The Commissioner is tasked with running his side of the Sport, the Board is there to liaise with and enable him, and are at the Top of the food chain





ok, so are the current problems Board or commisioner based issue's, ie is any one or any paticular dept at fault here causing the drama's?

I an so interested in finding out exactually what the issues are behind all that is going on

[budda]

Its not pathetic, they don't make any money out of roadbike sales and so many people are bringing in stuff directly so who can blame them for closing their chequebooks? If it wasn't for Suzukis efforts there would be no credible topline racing. Given that they have been ripped off by more than a few its a wonder they have any involvement at all.

Aside from the above reality there are a number of initiatives in place but sifting through blinkered mentality is an issue.

Ever wondered why Bike Shops are run by Bike nuts ? Most sane business men wouldn't be IN the game, the returns are MINIMAL, especially considering the input most put in ...... F A C T

[Robert Taylor]

No this is where I see the problem, all the racers are seem to be happy its only the people that dont race that seem to be the experts. If it aint broke dont fix it. No one has explained to me what is wrong?

You are right Chop, there is a lot that ISNT broken. Im not going to regurgitate in full what I have said in a number of previous threads but one of the main issues is that we don't have a credible feeder class from 250 through to 600. Some structure with bikes with some responsive chassis adjustments and a tutoring structure in place will work. There are a number of industry people including myself who have already put a lot of time and money into conceptualising such a class. This is very much a work in progress.

This is about attracting people from outside of the sport to make it all a whole lot less intimidating to get racing. Not so much of looking from within and all its prejudices. Start on 250s to learn race skills and how to ride a bike, progress to CBR500 Cup where you will learn much needed suspension and chassis setup skills ( including structured classroom tutorials as part of the package with a top rider and a technician )

Ex motocross riders are a good group to target as are everyday riders who have bought many of these machines en masse. Indeed there is dealer support for such a series as long as the costs can be kept manageable.

[Kiwi Graham]

Graham in your postion with the AMCC then, what round of the NZ Champs are the largest club ( I believe the AMCC to still be the largest ) in new zealand running of the Current championship mate

We are not running one this season Shaun, for the last five years we made a loss (since its been run at HD and no other 'local' track is suitable or permitable) and we weren't prepared to do that again. A difficult decision to make but representing over 450 members we had to consider the bigger picture. Contry to popular belief a large membership does not mean we make heaps of money.

We tried vairous models of event organisation believing the Nationals to be more than a bike race for quicker riders but more of an event for the whole family and put on attractions and side shows to help accomodate the whole family but the cost of the venue and periferals made it un-achievable to run it at cost let alone in the black without a massive entry fee for riders. Our vision for the event was for it to grow in popularity encouraging more public through the gates in the hope of actually lowering the entry fees for riders.

We are still very keen to be involved at National level but things have to be different in terms of the current buisness model. MNZ are aware of our position and our concerns re affordability etc and we will meet in the 'off season' to nut this one out.

The flip side to this is as I have said from a club level perspective our racing numbers have increased, from a National perspective our rider representation has increased and from an international perspective our rider representation is increasing.
KG

[roogazza]

haha Roogazza. Is my passion for our sport to over the top and do you think I am asking questions and trying to promote action that does not need talking about and acting on? To me it is a majority rules scenario and unless you ask you do not know?
Just an attempt at light humour bud. If you think there's something that needs changing go for it. (I admire your passion and do at times feel guilty of not giving a shit sometimes.)
Hey I have opinion, but I'm way way out of touch with what's going on.Best I stay quiet.

[Shaun Harris]

Just an attempt at light humour bud. If you think there's something that needs changing go for it. (I admire your passion and do at times feel guilty of not giving a shit sometimes.)
Hey I have opinion, but I'm way way out of touch with what's going on.Best I stay quiet.









Pm it to go with the others mate. No question is a dumb one really and all idea's need looking at with an open mind but also with a real world mentallity approach

[budda]

You are right Chop, there is a lot that ISNT broken.
Ex motocross riders are a good group to target as are everyday riders who have bought many of these machines en masse.

Jeepers Doc - with a little creative editing there, it sounds like you're talking about F450's :blink:

[Shaun Harris]

You are right Chop, there is a lot that ISNT broken. Im not going to regurgitate in full what I have said in a number of previous threads but one of the main issues is that we don't have a credible feeder class from 250 through to 600. Some structure with bikes with some responsive chassis adjustments and a tutoring structure in place will work. There are a number of industry people including myself who have already put a lot of time and money into conceptualising such a class. This is very much a work in progress.

This is about attracting people from outside of the sport to make it all a whole lot less intimidating to get racing. Not so much of looking from within and all its prejudices. Start on 250s to learn race skills and how to ride a bike, progress to CBR500 Cup where you will learn much needed suspension and chassis setup skills ( including structured classroom tutorials as part of the package with a top rider and a technician )

Ex motocross riders are a good group to target as are everyday riders who have bought many of these machines en masse. Indeed there is dealer support for such a series as long as the costs can be kept manageable.







I really love the idea of a one make class purely as all are the same apart from suspension set up and rider skills. The concept of the learning training package enviroment is exellent also ( Also driving in the importance of understanding there rule books)

It would be a reasnoably cheep class and being a 500 would sound good also to the spectators, especially on the street tracks. Go back to the days of the 750 racing here and the tallent that high lighted back then, Terry Fitzgerlad jumps to mind when he was on = bikes to toomey and holden and katinberg and many more he was as good or good as, it is a bloody real healthy way to messure yourself, that is the same as the current 250 prody class as far as I am concerned young or old as far as gauging yourself goes.

Future NZ racing classes for AGM Remitts then

250 Production ( To be changed to 300 in future)
500 production
F2
F1
Sidecars

Everything else races in the club scene

[scott411]

You are right Chop, there is a lot that ISNT broken. Im not going to regurgitate in full what I have said in a number of previous threads but one of the main issues is that we don't have a credible feeder class from 250 through to 600. Some structure with bikes with some responsive chassis adjustments and a tutoring structure in place will work. There are a number of industry people including myself who have already put a lot of time and money into conceptualising such a class. This is very much a work in progress.

This is about attracting people from outside of the sport to make it all a whole lot less intimidating to get racing. Not so much of looking from within and all its prejudices. Start on 250s to learn race skills and how to ride a bike, progress to CBR500 Cup where you will learn much needed suspension and chassis setup skills ( including structured classroom tutorials as part of the package with a top rider and a technician )

Ex motocross riders are a good group to target as are everyday riders who have bought many of these machines en masse. Indeed there is dealer support for such a series as long as the costs can be kept manageable.

how is this different from the Pro Twin class, where you have basically open suspension?? and already has good numbers in it? and a good supply of bikes still available new for it,

PS: Ex Motocross riders will not find this class attractive unless someone else is paying, as the bikes are to slow, a decent ex motocrosser that has ridden 450's will go into 600's, or convert their current bike to a motard bike and go from there, (Choppa went straight to 600's, Toby Summers and Scotty Moir went via Motards)

the biggest thing about getting MX riders across is how expensive it is to practice and race compared to racing dirt bikes,

[jellywrestler]

250 Production ( To be changed to 300 in future)
why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...

[steveyb]

We are not running one this season Shaun, for the last five years we made a loss (since its been run at HD and no other 'local' track is suitable or permitable) and we weren't prepared to do that again. A difficult decision to make but representing over 450 members we had to consider the bigger picture. Contry to popular belief a large membership does not mean we make heaps of money.

We tried vairous models of event organisation believing the Nationals to be more than a bike race for quicker riders but more of an event for the whole family and put on attractions and side shows to help accomodate the whole family but the cost of the venue and periferals made it un-achievable to run it at cost let alone in the black without a massive entry fee for riders. Our vision for the event was for it to grow in popularity encouraging more public through the gates in the hope of actually lowering the entry fees for riders.

We are still very keen to be involved at National level but things have to be different in terms of the current buisness model. MNZ are aware of our position and our concerns re affordability etc and we will meet in the 'off season' to nut this one out.

The flip side to this is as I have said from a club level perspective our racing numbers have increased, from a National perspective our rider representation has increased and from an international perspective our rider representation is increasing.
KG

I know very well that the financial structures are different, and it is a one-off event, but has anyone seen the elephant in the room here, that AMCC can make money or at least lose a cuff or a sleeve running their club championship at the same venue, but lose their shirt running NZSBK? Why should that be?

I do agree with Choppa that at the moment the sporting side of the sport seems to be in rude health.

But the management side does seem to be letting the side down, on the face of it at least. That might be due to rules, environment, personalities, combination of, or other factors.

My comment therefore, is that I think it would be worth working a bt harder on exposure and marketing of what we do for a couple/3 years and then see if the management side actually does need modifying.

There will ALWAYS be screwups, rules issues etc, that is just life, nothing is every perfect nor can it forsee every eventuality. But at the end of the day, exposure will grow our market share and growing market share will produce numbers and numbers will allow the improved class structures to become established and the sport thereafter to grow.

But after the tragic events of this past weekend, I personally am strongly considering walking away from bikes and esp racing altogether and might therefore just leave youse all to it. We'll see.

[Shaun Harris]

but after the tragic events of this past weekend, I personally am strongly considering walking away from bikes and esp racing altogether and might therefore just leave youse all to it. We'll see.


Are you ok? and I for one hope not Steve you have to much to offer to the game

[Shaun Harris]

why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...





300 was in reference to given time re name change as all makes are heading there as per Kawasaki and yea the 500 thing will take time or a well set up plan to make it work as I think it would need a minimum of 15 bikes on the grid to start with and within a year will grow well if the class is recognised as a class in the NZ Champs and I also realise you cannot just keep introducing classes either so again ????? Is this class a part of the way forward to go with our sport, and do we or rather what class do we have to drop to cater for it?


Main heading at top of all classes Rules

NO changes will be made to these rules for 3 years from the date of ------------ untill ------------------------------------------------

Not mentioned do not touch or add

Fuel
Engine ( ref bore size) STD over size only.

250/300
500
F2
F1
Sidecars

[Shaun Harris]

We are not running one this season Shaun, for the last five years we made a loss (since its been run at HD and no other 'local' track is suitable or permitable) and we weren't prepared to do that again. A difficult decision to make but representing over 450 members we had to consider the bigger picture. Contry to popular belief a large membership does not mean we make heaps of money.

We tried vairous models of event organisation believing the Nationals to be more than a bike race for quicker riders but more of an event for the whole family and put on attractions and side shows to help accomodate the whole family but the cost of the venue and periferals made it un-achievable to run it at cost let alone in the black without a massive entry fee for riders. Our vision for the event was for it to grow in popularity encouraging more public through the gates in the hope of actually lowering the entry fees for riders.

We are still very keen to be involved at National level but things have to be different in terms of the current buisness model. MNZ are aware of our position and our concerns re affordability etc and we will meet in the 'off season' to nut this one out.

The flip side to this is as I have said from a club level perspective our racing numbers have increased, from a National perspective our rider representation has increased and from an international perspective our rider representation is increasing.
KG






Fantastic re AMCC membership growing and entries increasing at events buddy. Are you able too post a spread sheet involving the break down of operating costs or is that club member info only mate. Hey how many personell do you guys need per day to run a Nationals round also buddy, everyone total please

[budda]

300 was in reference to given time re name change as all makes are heading there as per Kawasaki and yea the 500 thing will take time or a well set up plan to make it work as I think it would need a minimum of 15 bikes on the grid to start with and within a year will grow well if the class is recognised as a class in the NZ Champs and I also realise you cannot just keep introducing classes either so again ????? Is this class a part of the way forward to go with our sport, and do we or rather what class do we have to drop to cater for it?


Main heading at top of all classes Rules

NO changes will be made to these rules for 3 years from the date of ------------ untill ------------------------------------------------

Not mentioned do not touch

Fuel
Engine ( ref bore size) STD over size only.

250/300
500
F2
F1
Sidecars

Now lets not get the cart before the horse Shaun - You, I'm sure, are well aware where these noncessant rule changes come from - THE RIDERS in the main. Rule changes are put forward for consideration : not all get through, but very very few do not come via riders feedback and/or suggestion.

Its not easy trying to keep seriously conflicting personalities happy, and a mistake to try sometimes - but that's why the Commissioner is on the BIG BUCKS:lol:

And that is why I resisted the pressure from on high to move to a single Commissioner from a 5 man Commission ......... logic would say rules written by a group with over 170 years of Champs level racing and 29 ( from memory ) Championships would be pretty watertight and "interpretation - proof" ..... clearly not:killingme

[Kiwi Graham]

Fantastic re AMCC membership growing and entries increasing at events buddy. Are you able too post a spread sheet involving the break down of operating costs or is that club member info only mate. Hey how many personell do you guys need per day to run a Nationals round also buddy, everyone total please

Shaun i'm not going to break it down verbatim on here MNZ have a detailed financial analasis of the event all bound inc some colour pics :-)

Total cost of the event $75,651.02..............blimy it all went quiet!!

Number of personel involved per day (there is/was three)
31 track side marshals.........mmm it all went quiet again!
Cheif Mashal
CoC, Steward + assisstant
starter
dummy grid chief + assistant
race sec + assistant
Pits Marshal x 2
Machine examiners x 2 - then used for other roles
For Hampton Downs a Yellow Line spotter
Assistant to tech inspector
2 x fully equiped first response paramedic ambos & personel
2 x machine recovery (one capable of side car recovery)
Commentator/s
Gate personel x 4 (vehicle/pedestrian)
1 x VIP liaison for life members & dignitaries
3 x Timing personel (Tim & Co)
1 x Trade and off track entertainment liason
track dressing and tear down crew (incorporated from some of the above)

There will be more but I cant think of who at the moment ( I'm supposed to be working :whistle: )

[Shaun Harris]

Shaun i'm not going to break it down verbatim on here MNZ have a detailed financial analasis of the event all bound inc some colour pics :-)

Total cost of the event $75,651.02..............blimy it all went quiet!!

Number of personel involved per day (there is/was three)
31 track side marshals.........mmm it all went quiet again!
Cheif Mashal
CoC, Steward + assisstant
starter
dummy grid chief + assistant
race sec + assistant
Pits Marshal x 2
Machine examiners x 2 - then used for other roles
For Hampton Downs a Yellow Line spotter
Assistant to tech inspector
2 x fully equiped first response paramedic ambos & personel
2 x machine recovery (one capable of side car recovery)
Commentator/s
Gate personel x 4 (vehicle/pedestrian)
1 x VIP liaison for life members & dignitaries
3 x Timing personel (Tim & Co)
1 x Trade and off track entertainment liason
track dressing and tear down crew (incorporated from some of the above)

There will be more but I cant think of who at the moment ( I'm supposed to be working :whistle: )






Thanks for the well detailed reply mate.

Can you elaberate on fees taken in ie final budget breakdown " So the losses involved" ?

[Kiwi Graham]

Thanks for the well detailed reply mate.

Can you elaberate on fees taken in ie final budget breakdown " So the losses involved" ?

Total income from entry fee's, sponsorship and gate takings + $61,773.00

Mate, when your next up in the big smoke give me a call and I'd be happy to go through the event with you.

[Robert Taylor]

how is this different from the Pro Twin class, where you have basically open suspension?? and already has good numbers in it? and a good supply of bikes still available new for it,

PS: Ex Motocross riders will not find this class attractive unless someone else is paying, as the bikes are to slow, a decent ex motocrosser that has ridden 450's will go into 600's, or convert their current bike to a motard bike and go from there, (Choppa went straight to 600's, Toby Summers and Scotty Moir went via Motards)

the biggest thing about getting MX riders across is how expensive it is to practice and race compared to racing dirt bikes,

The numbers in Pro Twins is not that flash and the class is pretty stagnant. Whilst you are allowed rear shocks with every possible adjustment you are restricted to the 1950s technology damper rod forks that these sorts of bikes are cursed with. You are allowed springs and Race Tech emulators. These are still crude and afford no external damping adjusters. The pathway needs to be such that there are bikes with such adjusters that are responsive and will instil setup skills. This before riders progress to a 600 and feel totally like a fish out of water.

If ''someone else is paying'' thats it then isnt it? Time a lot of riders realised that the distributors etc dont owe them a living.

[Robert Taylor]

Jeepers Doc - with a little creative editing there, it sounds like you're talking about F450's :blink:

Absolutely not, those engines are not made for such an environment

[Robert Taylor]

why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...

Sounds brutal but you attract people that will buy and race these, by looking outwards, not inwards.

[budda]

Absolutely not, those engines are not made for such an environment

Inarguable logic - similarly, beggars belief that High-End Zoot-Capri boingers and clickers are made for bottom-dwellers' commuter bikes:weep:

[Robert Taylor]

Inarguable logic - similarly, beggars belief that High-End Zoot-Capri boingers and clickers are made for bottom-dwellers' commuter bikes:weep:

EJC500 used Andreani cartridges and Ohlins rear shocks, Jake Lewis will happily concur. The Andreani cartridges are VERY affordable and the prototype NITRON rear shock we have made mimics the character of the Ohlins shock but at around 60% of the price. Thats positive and proactive.
BTW such bikes as Ninja 250 / 300 also have aftermarket listings for cartridges and shocks. Manufacturers will only make such stuff if there is sizable worldwide demand, which there is. Not every country has its head in the sand.

[budda]

EJC500 used Andreani cartridges and Ohlins rear shocks, Jake Lewis will happily concur. The Andreani cartridges are VERY affordable and the prototype NITRON rear shock we have made mimics the character of the Ohlins shock but at around 60% of the price. Thats positive and proactive.
BTW such bikes as Ninja 250 / 300 also have aftermarket listings for cartridges and shocks. Manufacturers will only make such stuff if there is sizable worldwide demand, which there is. Not every country has its head in the sand.

AGREED:yes: Sad reality that demand and margin define availability, but the Tooth Fairy has been conspicuously absent lately - somebody somewhere has to pay to make the whole merry-go-round go round, as it were. There is indeed exactly nothing wrong with making a buck, without that there would be no crumbs for those of a mind to, to distribute to the needy / wanty in our frog pond

Even my mate Helen grasped that fundamental truth ..........:angry2:

[Billy]

EJC500 used Andreani cartridges and Ohlins rear shocks, Jake Lewis will happily concur. The Andreani cartridges are VERY affordable and the prototype NITRON rear shock we have made mimics the character of the Ohlins shock but at around 60% of the price. Thats positive and proactive.
BTW such bikes as Ninja 250 / 300 also have aftermarket listings for cartridges and shocks. Manufacturers will only make such stuff if there is sizable worldwide demand, which there is. Not every country has its head in the sand.

All very good Robert,

But tell me,If or when whomever it may be that is involved in this project finally gets around to talking to the commissioner about getting it started as a class,Who will police this class in a fair and reasonable manner?????? Had I been able to stay on,I would have only considered it on the basis the distributor concerned dealt with the enforcement of any supp regs for such a class asWIL sport do with the Hyosung cup,Meantime another distributor has already approached the commissioner with a similar plan.

Also,Before this conversation carries on for too much longer,Be aware,As I'm sure Buddha will concur,Organising the Championship series is less than 10% of the commissioners role,Every permit application and supp regs has to be read and approved for EVERY race meeting in the country,In most cases this requires going back to the organiser as many as 3 or 4 times to get the stuff sorted in a reasonable manner,Then theres the 3 or 4 phonecalls per day from members requiring info or wishing to talk about proposed rules etcPlus 10 or more emails a week with members concerns or complaints,Following up on any serious injury accidents or fatalities including reviewing all the relevant info and compiling a statement for any coroners hearing or police reports,Then theres the various different classes within the discipline that have their own needs and wants,Such as miniature roadrace,Post classic,Sidercars,Supermoto and on it goes

[Robert Taylor]

AGREED:yes: Sad reality that demand and margin define availability, but the Tooth Fairy has been conspicuously absent lately - somebody somewhere has to pay to make the whole merry-go-round go round, as it were. There is indeed exactly nothing wrong with making a buck, without that there would be no crumbs for those of a mind to, to distribute to the needy / wanty in our frog pond

Even my mate Helen grasped that fundamental truth ..........:angry2:

With all respect Budda I think growth needs to be found from ''OUTSIDE'' of our inwards looking prejudices and ''state of the sport'' judgements by attracting new riders to a new dynamic and proffessional class that mirrors a new reality in the market. We should be racing machines in such a class that are todays news, 250 ( 300? ) production satisfies that mentality in spades, a 500 class that then introduces the need to learn chassis and suspension setup skills is the next logical step

As a very clear headed chap just reinforced via PM, where is the career path? Setup and rider education in an inbetween class with representative chassis and suspension adjustments ( and response to same ) is the key 'crowning glory'' of the concept that is being put forward

I think its a nasty thing to lower the quality of constructive dialogue by mentioning that bitches name........

[budda]

With all respect Budda I think growth needs to be found from ''OUTSIDE'' of our inwards looking prejudices and ''state of the sport'' judgements by attracting new riders to a new dynamic and proffessional class that mirrors a new reality in the market. We should be racing machines in such a class that are todays news, 250 ( 300? ) production satisfies that mentality in spades, a 500 class that then introduces the need to learn chassis and suspension setup skills is the next logical step

As a very clear headed chap just reinforced via PM, where is the career path? Setup and rider education in an inbetween class with representative chassis and suspension adjustments ( and response to same ) is the key 'crowning glory'' of the concept that is being put forward

I think its a nasty thing to lower the quality of constructive dialogue by mentioning that bitches name........

New REALITY - you been supping merlot and swotting up on Mr Persigs finest tomes then ?

[Robert Taylor]

All very good Robert,

But tell me,If or when whomever it may be that is involved in this project finally gets around to talking to the commissioner about getting it started as a class,Who will police this class in a fair and reasonable manner?????? Had I been able to stay on,I would have only considered it on the basis the distributor concerned dealt with the enforcement of any supp regs for such a class asWIL sport do with the Hyosung cup,Meantime another distributor has already approached the commissioner with a similar plan.

Also,Before this conversation carries on for too much longer,Be aware,As I'm sure Buddha will concur,Organising the Championship series is less than 10% of the commissioners role,Every permit application and supp regs has to be read and approved for EVERY race meeting in the country,In most cases this requires going back to the organiser as many as 3 or 4 times to get the stuff sorted in a reasonable manner,Then theres the 3 or 4 phonecalls per day from members requiring info or wishing to talk about proposed rules etcPlus 10 or more emails a week with members concerns or complaints,Following up on any serious injury accidents or fatalities including reviewing all the relevant info and compiling a statement for any coroners hearing or police reports,Then theres the various different classes within the discipline that have their own needs and wants,Such as miniature roadrace,Post classic,Sidercars,Supermoto and on it goes

In short this is all currently under consideration at the relevant distributor. The seed is sown and the basic concept of the bike has been tested on track. Its now up to the said distributor to pick up the ball and run with it.

[scott411]

As a very clear headed chap just reinforced via PM, where is the career path? Setup and rider education in an inbetween class with representative chassis and suspension adjustments ( and response to same ) is the key 'crowning glory'' of the concept that is being put forward



this is a sport, not a career, it will cost 99.9% of everyone involved money, and a lot of it,

[budda]

this is a sport, not a career, it will cost 99.9% of everyone involved money, and a lot of it,

I KNEW I liked you, LittleGreenGuy:clap:

[budda]

All very good Robert,

But tell me,If or when whomever it may be that is involved in this project finally gets around to talking to the commissioner about getting it started as a class,Who will police this class in a fair and reasonable manner?????? Had I been able to stay on,I would have only considered it on the basis the distributor concerned dealt with the enforcement of any supp regs for such a class asWIL sport do with the Hyosung cup,Meantime another distributor has already approached the commissioner with a similar plan.

Also,Before this conversation carries on for too much longer,Be aware,As I'm sure Buddha will concur,Organising the Championship series is less than 10% of the commissioners role,Every permit application and supp regs has to be read and approved for EVERY race meeting in the country,In most cases this requires going back to the organiser as many as 3 or 4 times to get the stuff sorted in a reasonable manner,Then theres the 3 or 4 phonecalls per day from members requiring info or wishing to talk about proposed rules etcPlus 10 or more emails a week with members concerns or complaints,Following up on any serious injury accidents or fatalities including reviewing all the relevant info and compiling a statement for any coroners hearing or police reports,Then theres the various different classes within the discipline that have their own needs and wants,Such as miniature roadrace,Post classic,Sidercars,Supermoto and on it goes

10-12 emails a WEEK ???????? HELLS BELLS, I sure did have it wrong. Sure you mean per DAY:wait:

[Billy]

10-12 emails a WEEK ???????? HELLS BELLS, I sure did have it wrong. Sure you mean per DAY:wait:

Yea,I did,Just letting it out a bit at a time haha,Don't want to scare ony "Prospectives" off

[scrivy]

Yea,I did,Just letting it out a bit at a time haha,Don't want to scare ony "Prospectives" off

It's like I said, it should be a paid job...... No carnt will won't to do it otherwise

Talk about it at conference FFS............

Otherwise I'll just have to stick to surfing porn and spanking my monkey...