Spring spacer for rear shock?

[nzspokes]

I need to add a spacer to my rear shock/spring to get my preload up a bit. Have thought about getting a nolothane(sp?) one from ripco but not sure if it will fit blah blah. Is there somewhere I can buy such a thing or do I need to get one turned up? Want 10 to 15mm.

[Madness]

Time to eat a few less pies eh?

[hayd3n]

what do you want to achieve with this spacer??
a better spring would be a better idea :)

[nzspokes]

what do you want to achieve with this spacer??
a better spring would be a better idea :)

I dont disagree. But for the sake of a spacer its worth a crack. Spring is 10mm to short so not getting enough preload. The springs in these wee Hornets need big rates, may be looking at a 1200lb in the rear shock. But want to try this first.

[hayd3n]

I dont disagree. But for the sake of a spacer its worth a crack. Spring is 10mm to short so not getting enough preload. The springs in these wee Hornets need big rates, may be looking at a 1200lb in the rear shock. But want to try this first.

have fun :wacko:

[nzspokes]

have fun :wacko:

In the US guys run 1200 for road and 1300 for track. With 1000 mine is still very soft and gets a lot of squat under power and transitions.

[AllanB]

Whiz one up out of a bit of alloy?

[nzspokes]

Whiz one up out of a bit of alloy?

I would but I dont have a Whiz up machine. And if I pay a man to do it then I may as well buy another spring. But I dont know if the one I have will do.

[AllanB]

Run out of preload with that spring? Will the spacer not just raise the length of the shock a bit - subject to the max extension available?

Must be some cheapish spacer available that would suit. Be worth a e-mail to Mr Taylor to see if he has anything in his workshop - take some measurements.

[nzspokes]

Run out of preload with that spring? Will the spacer not just raise the length of the shock a bit - subject to the max extension available?

Must be some cheapish spacer available that would suit. Be worth a e-mail to Mr Taylor to see if he has anything in his workshop - take some measurements.

Spacer is to go under the spring to add to the preload. Not lengthen the shock. But a longer shock does help them so im told.

[James Deuce]

Are you doing this for ride height reasons or to preload the shock so that it starts and finishes its travel through a different part of the stroke? This argument comes up all the time and people equate ride height to seat height and they're wrong.

You need to get a different spring. The spacer is just going to mess with the way the shock works.

[nzspokes]

Are you doing this for ride height reasons or to preload the shock so that it starts and finishes its travel through a different part of the stroke? This argument comes up all the time and people equate ride height to seat height and they're wrong.

You need to get a different spring. The spacer is just going to mess with the way the shock works.

To add preload. Nothing to do with ride height or seat height. Im getting a bit much bike sag and the adjustment is at the end of the range. But the spring is 10mm short to start with. Im a long way off coil binding. A guy that knows what he is doing said this will resolve it. Rider sag is bang on.

[James Deuce]

Rider sag is bang on.

Big moobs, eh? There's this website...

[Ocean1]

To add preload. Nothing to do with ride height or seat height. Im getting a bit much bike sag and the adjustment is at the end of the range. But the spring is 10mm short to start with. Im a long way off coil binding. A guy that knows what he is doing said this will resolve it. Rider sag is bang on.

If the rider sag is correct but the static sag is too much then all adding a spacer will do is fuck up the rider sag.

To get them both correct you need a heavier spring.

[hayd3n]

To add preload. Nothing to do with ride height or seat height. Im getting a bit much bike sag and the adjustment is at the end of the range. But the spring is 10mm short to start with. Im a long way off coil binding. A guy that knows what he is doing said this will resolve it. Rider sag is bang on.
yep and my mum is always right :niceone:

[nzspokes]

yep and my mum is always right :niceone:

CSB but whats your Mum got to do with a spacer?

[bogan]

CSB but whats your Mum got to do with a spacer?

Far be it from me to draw an implication, but spacers are generally for loose things... :innocent:


If the rider sag is correct but the static sag is too much then all adding a spacer will do is fuck up the rider sag.

To get them both correct you need a heavier spring.

QFT

[hayd3n]

CSB but whats your Mum got to do with a spacer?

some guy telling you what to do to fix your rear , and believing him,


is the same as believing everything my mum said when i was a kid

[nzspokes]

some guy telling you what to do to fix your rear , and believing him,


is the same as believing everything my mum said when i was a kid

OIC. This guy knows his shit. I trust him over just about anybody on this topic.

I will do a drawing and see what it would cost to get one turned up out of alloy.

[bogan]

OIC. This guy knows his shit. I trust him over just about anybody on this topic.

I will do a drawing and see what it would cost to get one turned up out of alloy.

CSB, but where is RT when you need him.

If you're determined to half-ass it, you could just bang a drift or two in there until the preload readings are right...

[nzspokes]

CSB, but where is RT when you need him.

If you're determined to half-ass it, you could just bang a drift or two in there until the preload readings are right...

It was Dave Moss that did a once over of my bike and said it was the way to sort it.

[mhm]

het mate. dont know much bout sus so wont added anything there but can assist with machining up a spacer from alloy if youd like.all i need to know is a few dimensions,maybe sketch a pic and pixt it to me and itll take all of half an hour id say,should have material too so bottle of piss would have it covered 02102789016

[nzspokes]

het mate. dont know much bout sus so wont added anything there but can assist with machining up a spacer from alloy if youd like.all i need to know is a few dimensions,maybe sketch a pic and pixt it to me and itll take all of half an hour id say,should have material too so bottle of piss would have it covered 02102789016

Cheers. I will draw something up tomorrow. Its just a big washer really. Will be in contact.

[Robert Taylor]

Are you doing this for ride height reasons or to preload the shock so that it starts and finishes its travel through a different part of the stroke? This argument comes up all the time and people equate ride height to seat height and they're wrong.

You need to get a different spring. The spacer is just going to mess with the way the shock works.

It wouldn't be an argument if many of those arguing had an appreciation of the science and combinations and could then say something plausible. It is better to say nothing and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

There is a certain point where there obviously is too much preload BUT there are no hard and fast rules that work for everything. For example a Ducati 1098 / 1198 will run in excess of 20mm preload as part of some ''fudge'' engineering to keep the bike away from the ridiculously progressive link that it comes with. In combination with that it needs a very ''aggressive'' top out spring.

To get a certain characteristic we only run 8-10mm on the racebikes of Messrs Charlett, Cole, Smith, Fitzgerald, Frost, Hassan etc. That must be combined with very effective low speed damping control

Too may people overspring to try and attain acceleration squat control when in fact the issue very often is that the low speed compression damping ( internal ) has very poor control and is allowing the bike to squat too readily. Overspring and you will get rudimentary control but rather less ability to absorb abrupt bumps.

The Yamaha MT09 is a case in point, very poor acceleration squat control so the 5 minute experts on forums are saying ''spring up''. Bollocks, the compression damping is very weak. Once this bike has credible low speed compression damping you can actually spring down

[Robert Taylor]

It was Dave Moss that did a once over of my bike and said it was the way to sort it.

He has advised a budget solution, yes. How much did he charge you and is he paying income tax to the NZ Government ?

Note that we ( Kiwi Suspension Solutions ) have spring spacers in stock. These are 90% machined so just need a little more machining to suit each application

[nzspokes]

He has advised a budget solution, yes. How much did he charge you and is he paying income tax to the NZ Government ?

Note that we ( Kiwi Suspension Solutions ) have spring spacers in stock. These are 90% machined so just need a little more machining to suit each application

How much? And what needs finishing?

[Robert Taylor]

How much? And what needs finishing?

$48.90 plus gst and freight. This one will ''add'' 12mm of distance. If you are lucky no finish machining but what it would pay to do is to e-mail me current shock spring i.d and the dimensions of the preload adjust coollar that this spacer would sit on. We will then see what would be required and if its just a couple of minutes in the lathe for us then no danger

[SVboy]

He has advised a budget solution, yes. How much did he charge you and is he paying income tax to the NZ Government ?

Note that we ( Kiwi Suspension Solutions ) have spring spacers in stock. These are 90% machined so just need a little more machining to suit each application

I see what you did there RT! A nice segway into aspersions about Dave. Rather than getting into a slagging match on here, I suggest you do some research into answering your own question. You may be pleasantly suprised.

[Robert Taylor]

I see what you did there RT! A nice segway into aspersions about Dave. Rather than getting into a slagging match on here, I suggest you do some research into answering your own question. You may be pleasantly suprised.

Im not knocking Moss, I just pointed out that he advised a ''quick fix'', which is fine if it suits the ''customer''. But also this thread has given me a means of explaining that upping in spring rate is not always the most correct way of attaining more ''chassis hold''.
I would have a very dim view of Moss if he didn't pay tax whilst he was here, like all the local businesses have to. I think that's very fair to point out.

[nzspokes]

It wouldn't be an argument if many of those arguing had an appreciation of the science and combinations and could then say something plausible. It is better to say nothing and be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

There is a certain point where there obviously is too much preload BUT there are no hard and fast rules that work for everything. For example a Ducati 1098 / 1198 will run in excess of 20mm preload as part of some ''fudge'' engineering to keep the bike away from the ridiculously progressive link that it comes with. In combination with that it needs a very ''aggressive'' top out spring.

To get a certain characteristic we only run 8-10mm on the racebikes of Messrs Charlett, Cole, Smith, Fitzgerald, Frost, Hassan etc. That must be combined with very effective low speed damping control

Too may people overspring to try and attain acceleration squat control when in fact the issue very often is that the low speed compression damping ( internal ) has very poor control and is allowing the bike to squat too readily. Overspring and you will get rudimentary control but rather less ability to absorb abrupt bumps.

The Yamaha MT09 is a case in point, very poor acceleration squat control so the 5 minute experts on forums are saying ''spring up''. Bollocks, the compression damping is very weak. Once this bike has credible low speed compression damping you can actually spring down

I dont disagree with what you are saying with low speed compression being the issue on the Hornet. But within the stock shock there is no way to adjust this. I believe from what Ive read overseas there has been some success with the squat issue by using a few mm longer shock with better low speed damping control. But to be fair putting a $1500 rear shock into a 4k bike that is at best an average bike is somewhat pointless. If it were a Gixxer or the likes that I had 10+k invested in then it would be a no brainer. I would only up the spring rate now if the sag numbers were way out. The spacer is to reduce the bike sag a smidge. This was Daves suggestion after looking at my bike and he spent a good half hour going over it and was the only homework item he found. The bike is much better for what he did to it.

And for the record I paid the business that he was visiting, not him directly.

[SVboy]

Sorry for the thread drift Robert. Have you worked out solutions to the MT09 front and rear? What would it cost approx?The budget suspension would be my big sticking point over buying one of these.

[sil3nt]

I dont disagree with what you are saying with low speed compression being the issue on the Hornet. But within the stock shock there is no way to adjust this. I believe from what Ive read overseas there has been some success with the squat issue by using a few mm longer shock with better low speed damping control. But to be fair putting a $1500 rear shock into a 4k bike that is at best an average bike is somewhat pointless. If it were a Gixxer or the likes that I had 10+k invested in then it would be a no brainer. I would only up the spring rate now if the sag numbers were way out. The spacer is to reduce the bike sag a smidge. This was Daves suggestion after looking at my bike and he spent a good half hour going over it and was the only homework item he found. The bike is much better for what he did to it.

And for the record I paid the business that he was visiting, not him directly.Why is putting a $1500 shock on a $4000 bike pointless? What does it matter what the bike is worth? It may be pointless if you were going to sell the bike next month but if the bike is a keeper then you might as well sort the problem properly.

[nzspokes]

Why is putting a $1500 shock on a $4000 bike pointless? What does it matter what the bike is worth? It may be pointless if you were going to sell the bike next month but if the bike is a keeper then you might as well sort the problem properly.

Because its a 900 Hornet.

[AllanB]

Because its a 900 Hornet.

I was happy to drop a grand Roberts way three years back oh and a couple hundy on new fork springs too. Best money spent on my Hornet, and as I can't afford to replace the bike with another I consider it $ well spent.

Funny thing is you will see every second rider on the road wearing a grands worth of name brand pipe(s) but the same $ on suspenders would vastly improve their ride.

When I do replace the Hornet, the replacement will be getting the bouncy bits sorted.

Decent bongers also have good resale value or if you are luck can be adapted to another ride.

I suspect you do enjoy the journey in fiddling with that shock :msn-wink:

[nzspokes]

I was happy to drop a grand Roberts way three years back oh and a couple hundy on new fork springs too. Best money spent on my Hornet, and as I can't afford to replace the bike with another I consider it $ well spent.

Funny thing is you will see every second rider on the road wearing a grands worth of name brand pipe(s) but the same $ on suspenders would vastly improve their ride.

When I do replace the Hornet, the replacement will be getting the bouncy bits sorted.

Decent bongers also have good resale value or if you are luck can be adapted to another ride.

I suspect you do enjoy the journey in fiddling with that shock :msn-wink:

Im happy with the forks thus far. Have bought it some gold valves though (only because they were very cheap). Springs already done.

Im not unhappy with the rear shock. Spring has sorted most of it.

[AllanB]

$50 spacer and you may be set :Punk:

[nzspokes]

$48.90 plus gst and freight. This one will ''add'' 12mm of distance. If you are lucky no finish machining but what it would pay to do is to e-mail me current shock spring i.d and the dimensions of the preload adjust coollar that this spacer would sit on. We will then see what would be required and if its just a couple of minutes in the lathe for us then no danger

Out of intrest what are the rear shock options for the Hornet?

[Robert Taylor]

I dont disagree with what you are saying with low speed compression being the issue on the Hornet. But within the stock shock there is no way to adjust this. I believe from what Ive read overseas there has been some success with the squat issue by using a few mm longer shock with better low speed damping control. But to be fair putting a $1500 rear shock into a 4k bike that is at best an average bike is somewhat pointless. If it were a Gixxer or the likes that I had 10+k invested in then it would be a no brainer. I would only up the spring rate now if the sag numbers were way out. The spacer is to reduce the bike sag a smidge. This was Daves suggestion after looking at my bike and he spent a good half hour going over it and was the only homework item he found. The bike is much better for what he did to it.

And for the record I paid the business that he was visiting, not him directly.

Unfortunately the cost of components is not indexed to the value of the bike.

Yes more length in itself gives more squat control geometrically and many damper units for such bikes inherently lack low speed compression damping anyway, but also too much high speed! Its worse for passenger cars, just how bad the suspension is on so many cars drives me nuts. Its sad also that many people think ''that's as good as it gets''. Mediocrity is rife

Im heartened to hear about the payment method.

[Robert Taylor]

Sorry for the thread drift Robert. Have you worked out solutions to the MT09 front and rear? What would it cost approx?The budget suspension would be my big sticking point over buying one of these.

Yes indeed! The bike is artificially low priced because they cut costs bigtime on the suspension. Don't let that put you off as an upgrade to make it all work properly is quite realistic.

FRONT END Underdamped and undersprung. It has a single 20mm cartridge that has to perform ALL of the work, this is in the rightside fork. In the left side fork the cartridge outer and rod etc is there, but no pistons or holders etc. THIS IS A TRULY SHOCKING EXAMPLE OF WHY ACCOUNTANTS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE ALLOWED TO MAKE ENGINEERING DECISIONS.

OPTION 1 Fit Race Tech piston kit set to the right side cartridge to give it some decent damping control, also respring it appropriately. Quite cost effective and all parts we have in stock. Still though its all done still in one spindly cartridge and it still lacks external compression adjustment

OPTION 2 Look at adding holders, needles , pistons etc to the left side cartridge so that then both cartridges become properly functional. This is time consuming a lot of parts and in light of other options not so cost effective. Also no external compression adjustment.

OPTION 3 Fit ANDREANI cartridge kit specifically made for the MT09 ( and many other makes and models.) 2 functioning cartridges with delivered appropriate springing to the rider stats. The right side fork becomes wholly rebound, adjustable from the top. The left side fork becomes wholly compression , again externally adjustable at the top. THE GOOD NEWS IS $1399 PER SET INCLUSIVE, plus a little extra cost for fitting and oil. We have become the NZ distributor for ANDREANI and have sold a good number already of their cartridge kits and piston kits / speciality parts. We are delighted with these products

REAR END Springing is a little firm in rate for average weight range riders, the reason its soft and blows through its stroke under acceleration etc is because there is abysmal compression damping, everywhere. We have dyno'd a stock shock to verify that and we shake our heads at the keyboard morons proclaiming the need for firmer springing as ''the fix''. That is complete and utter uninformed bullshit

The oem rear shock is another triumph of ''bastardisation by mindless accountants'' and is essentially non rebuildable and academically not of value for money totry and re-engineer it. No apologies offered to the sales and marketing people who believe their own insidious spin.

OPTION 1 Ohlins have one only official factory built listing, a single tube 46mm shock with internal gas dividing piston, castellated spring preload lockrings and a rebound adjuster. $1149 incl, in stock. Doubtless you might be able to buy one off the reselling parasites out of North Mexico, cheaper. BUT, if the valving and fitted spring is not so ideal for our roads ( and stock it isn't until we rework prior to sale ) then you are ''on your own'' in respect that they are not going to pay the freight both ways and rework it for you. Plus these bastards don't employ Kiwis or put anything back into our local economy

OPTION 2 NITRON 40mm single tube shock with same specification as Ohlins above $899 inclusive. With ride height adjuster $999 inclusive. Hose reservoir shock with ride height adjuster and compression adjuster $1399 incl. Hydraulic preload adjuster options also available

We have been selling an increasing number of Nitron shocks, go to www.nitron.co.uk Quality is at least as good as Ohlins and ride control and compliance is also at the same level. The pricing is excellent and the company philosophy is ''no dutch auctions'' so mpricing is ( affordably ) stable

[Robert Taylor]

Out of intrest what are the rear shock options for the Hornet?

Ohlins single tube $1149 incl ( equivalent Nitron $899 or $999 with length adjuster )

Ohlins 46mm with compression adjuster, reservoir and hydraulic preloader $1999 incl

Nitron hose reservoir shock with compression adjuster $1399

See MT09 answers above and go to www.nitron.co.uk This product is impressive and we had their owner out here for a week 3 weeks back. Very clearly they are the UKs very best manufacturer of motorcycle suspension.

[Mort]

If Dave Moss has any sense he has a Business address in the Caymen Islands and his international business receipts are paid there...

I know Dave has also sent business to your door too Robert.... :) He certainly opened a lot of peoples eye with respect to what can be achieved with suspension changes.... Good to have him here in NZ.

[Robert Taylor]

If Dave Moss has any sense he has a Business address in the Caymen Islands and his international business receipts are paid there...

I know Dave has also sent business to your door too Robert.... :) He certainly opened a lot of peoples eye with respect to what can be achieved with suspension changes.... Good to have him here in NZ.

Granted, the flipside is that there will be a good number of people that having had their stock suspenders tweaked will think that the mediocrity that they will still have will be ''as good as it gets''. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The reality is the expertise exists here in several incarnations without having to send money offshore. Please don't regard that as a means for people to start an argument about his presence, Im just stating the realities where people are rather less inclined to support local industry than in years past. Enough said.

[Mort]

Actually Dave was the most "local" suspension specialist I know of. He went up and down the country, worked with local businesses and attended track days and race events. Way more "local" than the less visible local specialists.

He he also made it pretty clear that tweaking poor stock suspension is just the beginning of what is possible and if you want more, see a local specialist.

[nzspokes]

Granted, the flipside is that there will be a good number of people that having had their stock suspenders tweaked will think that the mediocrity that they will still have will be ''as good as it gets''. Nothing could be further from the truth.


Thanks for the pricing, thats food for thought. Is the $899 Nitron the one way one? If so how good is it? And the Ohlins without the external can, what does it lack over the full spec model?

Now to address the above. To use your quote, about what you said Nothing could be further from the truth. The basis of what he was doing was making sure bikes were not in a dangerous state. Example, rebound set to slow, seals causing stiction, regular fork oil changes etc. At no time did he say at the night I went to that you have to put up with what you have. What he did say was lets make it safe. He said at the end for everybody to pass the information on to help keep others safe. With the more racer guys Ohlins was mentioned as an option.

Your name did come up a couple of times and even though I cant remember the exact context he was speaking highly of you and your work.

I believe as a workshop night his was the best motorcycle one I have been to.

[Robert Taylor]

Actually Dave was the most "local" suspension specialist I know of. He went up and down the country, worked with local businesses and attended track days and race events. Way more "local" than the less visible local specialists.

He he also made it pretty clear that tweaking poor stock suspension is just the beginning of what is possible and if you want more, see a local specialist.

To not put too fine a point on it Mort the ''less visible'' local specialists are busy working in their workshops. But it would surprise you how often we are away, its just impossible to be everywhere when you are doing the full context of the trade.

[Robert Taylor]

Thanks for the pricing, thats food for thought. Is the $899 Nitron the one way one? If so how good is it? And the Ohlins without the external can, what does it lack over the full spec model?

Now to address the above. To use your quote, about what you said Nothing could be further from the truth. The basis of what he was doing was making sure bikes were not in a dangerous state. Example, rebound set to slow, seals causing stiction, regular fork oil changes etc. At no time did he say at the night I went to that you have to put up with what you have. What he did say was lets make it safe. He said at the end for everybody to pass the information on to help keep others safe. With the more racer guys Ohlins was mentioned as an option.

Your name did come up a couple of times and even though I cant remember the exact context he was speaking highly of you and your work.

I believe as a workshop night his was the best motorcycle one I have been to.

Yes one way, our experience is that these are on a par with Ohlins, the pricing is certainly very good! Any shock specs that add a reservoir and compression adjuster gives you more adjustability plus more fluid and nitrogen capacity.

Granted re your elaboration of Dave Moss's approach. What I was intimating is that more than a few people would think ''this is as good as it gets''. We do the odd track day and make the settings better with the stock suspension. The riders come back and say ''its perfect'' to which we retort, ''no its not. its just better''

Here also is a cynical statement...............( !!!!! ) If we make the suspension work better it gives you the ability to crash at a higher speed!!

[SVboy]

Thanks RT-Food for thought around the MT09. Accountants-turning winning designs into losing realities since ages ago......

[nzspokes]

Here also is a cynical statement...............( !!!!! ) If we make the suspension work better it gives you the ability to crash at a higher speed!!

Always the cynic? :laugh:

Now I was made aware today that Ohlins are somewhat modular. And can be changed to fit different bikes. This changes my whole out look on them. Can you confirm this is correct Robert? Within reason of course but if say in 2 years I bought a Gixxer 750 in the future could this shock be changed to suit?

[nzspokes]

Always the cynic? :laugh:

Now I was made aware today that Ohlins are somewhat modular. And can be changed to fit different bikes. This changes my whole out look on them. Can you confirm this is correct Robert? Within reason of course but if say in 2 years I bought a Gixxer 750 in the future could this shock be changed to suit?

Very interested in an answer to this Robert. It may change my view on an Ohlins. Might have to start saving up.

[Robert Taylor]

Always the cynic? :laugh:

Now I was made aware today that Ohlins are somewhat modular. And can be changed to fit different bikes. This changes my whole out look on them. Can you confirm this is correct Robert? Within reason of course but if say in 2 years I bought a Gixxer 750 in the future could this shock be changed to suit?

Yes indeed they are and that is a ''crowning glory''. We do this in a very ''kiwi'' way in as much as if it requires a slightly shorter body tube for the new bike we will machine the existing one instead of selling you a new one. Minimisation of cost without compromising quality. Every Ohlins shock made at the factory has an identifying code stamped into its cylinder head. For instance if its a Honda shock it will start with a HO prefix followed by a 4 number suffix. On receipt of that code we access a database and it will tell you everything thats inside the shock, spring rates, valving specs etc etc. We can then cross reference the spec code against the spec code for the shock for the new proposed bike and work out almost to the nth degree what will be required to respec it before there is any committment. Also of course to see that it is economically viable to do so, in each instance.

Sometimes we will trade used Ohlins for new. ( providing of course we sold the shock in the first instance )

There is also a service we offer to people who are looking to purchase used Ohlins shocks off E-Bay, Trade me etc. We encourage the buyer to first request from the seller the spec code and also the numbers off the spring(s) This so we can verify that the shock the seller is representing it as is correct. Its really disgraceful how much product is misrepresented by so many private resellers.

This is a complimentary service we offer and all that we reasonably expect in return is that if we have done the verification etc that we will get a return on it down the track if it needs changes / servicing by sending to us.

[AllanB]

I'm running the Ohlins non reservoir shock from Robert on my Hornet. Excellent stuff and given the jump in price for the bells and whistle unit it is very good value. Made a huge improvement to all aspects of the bike. I'd done the fork springs and oil first which only highlighted the shortcomings of the rear end. Once the rear shock was installed the best description was along the lines of the rear of the bike was now tied into the front - first ride I was left with a mental image of a large steel rod having been added from front to rear!

The Nitron at that price if of same spec and quality to the Ohlins I run is very good value.

PS - deleting the reservoir saves weight and makes your Hornet faster :motu:

[nzspokes]

Yes indeed they are and that is a ''crowning glory''. We do this in a very ''kiwi'' way in as much as if it requires a slightly shorter body tube for the new bike we will machine the existing one instead of selling you a new one. Minimisation of cost without compromising quality. Every Ohlins shock made at the factory has an identifying code stamped into its cylinder head. For instance if its a Honda shock it will start with a HO prefix followed by a 4 number suffix. On receipt of that code we access a database and it will tell you everything thats inside the shock, spring rates, valving specs etc etc. We can then cross reference the spec code against the spec code for the shock for the new proposed bike and work out almost to the nth degree what will be required to respec it before there is any committment. Also of course to see that it is economically viable to do so, in each instance.

Sometimes we will trade used Ohlins for new. ( providing of course we sold the shock in the first instance )

There is also a service we offer to people who are looking to purchase used Ohlins shocks off E-Bay, Trade me etc. We encourage the buyer to first request from the seller the spec code and also the numbers off the spring(s) This so we can verify that the shock the seller is representing it as is correct. Its really disgraceful how much product is misrepresented by so many private resellers.

This is a complimentary service we offer and all that we reasonably expect in return is that if we have done the verification etc that we will get a return on it down the track if it needs changes / servicing by sending to us.

Ok. Thats a very interesting thing. Im now saving for one. This may take some time. It wont be the $1900 one but the cheaper version.

I would suggest that you try to make this more public knowledge as it changes the whole prospect of the thing.

[Katman]

I would suggest that you try to make this more public knowledge as it changes the whole prospect of the thing.

Yes, because I sure Robert is in urgent need of business advice from a failed push bike merchant.

[nzspokes]

I'm running the Ohlins non reservoir shock from Robert on my Hornet. Excellent stuff and given the jump in price for the bells and whistle unit it is very good value. Made a huge improvement to all aspects of the bike. I'd done the fork springs and oil first which only highlighted the shortcomings of the rear end. Once the rear shock was installed the best description was along the lines of the rear of the bike was now tied into the front - first ride I was left with a mental image of a large steel rod having been added from front to rear!

The Nitron at that price if of same spec and quality to the Ohlins I run is very good value.

PS - deleting the reservoir saves weight and makes your Hornet faster :motu:

Speaking of forks. :crazy: Mines just developed a leak.

I think for the long term Ohlins will be the way to go. Ive done springs and oil. Maybe some valve work in its near future.

[Madness]

I would suggest that you try to make this more public knowledge as it changes the whole prospect of the thing.

Try reading more & posting less :yes:

[Ocean1]

Speaking of forks. :crazy: Mines just developed a leak.

I think for the long term Ohlins will be the way to go. Ive done springs and oil. Maybe some valve work in its near future.

Speaking more of forks: Thank you Robert for the tune up on the Buell's, there's a deal less dive as a result of that spring and spacer change and I've found I'm running a lot less compression damping to good effect. The occasional harmonic-like chatter on very rough corners has disappeared too.

I half expected the improved front compliance to highlight some deficiencies out back, but I guess I'm just not trying hard enough, it feels fine.

[nzspokes]

I has a spacer coming. Thanks to a fellow KBer. That will keep me going untill I can get the new shock.

[Robert Taylor]

Its pertinent to reinforce that when we sell an Ohlins shock / suspension components we just dont take it out of the box and ''there you are''. We ensure that it is sprung for the customer and where we deem neccessary we revalve slightly to better suit our high ratio of challenging roads and riding expectations. That is not to say that they are not a significant improvement out of the box, they very much are. Its just that where there can be improvements and personal customisation to the customer we automatically do so

That is the value of buying locally, we are attuned to the riding environment / customer expectations and are accessible. Moreover we put our money back into the local community and employ New Zealanders.

If you buy out of ''North Mexico'' you might get them to fit an alternate spring, at best. If you find that the valving could perhaps be a little bit better they arent going to fly here at no cost to you to sort it!!! These resellers care nothing for other than taking your money ( which they put back into their communities, NOT ours ) and know that they are ( conveniently ) insulated by distance if there is something you are not completely satisfied with. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. I think its fair to say that most New Zealanders have a much keener sense of fairplay if something is not quite correct.

We have pretty much met the market on price anyway, when you also consider the added value that we have built in.

[nzspokes]

Its pertinent to reinforce that when we sell an Ohlins shock / suspension components we just dont take it out of the box and ''there you are''. We ensure that it is sprung for the customer and where we deem neccessary we revalve slightly to better suit our high ratio of challenging roads and riding expectations. That is not to say that they are not a significant improvement out of the box, they very much are. Its just that where there can be improvements and personal customisation to the customer we automatically do so

That is the value of buying locally, we are attuned to the riding environment / customer expectations and are accessible. Moreover we put our money back into the local community and employ New Zealanders.

If you buy out of ''North Mexico'' you might get them to fit an alternate spring, at best. If you find that the valving could perhaps be a little bit better they arent going to fly here at no cost to you to sort it!!! These resellers care nothing for other than taking your money ( which they put back into their communities, NOT ours ) and know that they are ( conveniently ) insulated by distance if there is something you are not completely satisfied with. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. I think its fair to say that most New Zealanders have a much keener sense of fairplay if something is not quite correct.

We have pretty much met the market on price anyway, when you also consider the added value that we have built in.

Well Dan Kyle Racing do the full spec one with hydrolic preload etc as a special deal at $919. That because one of there techs is a fan of the Hornets which are called 919s there due to the Hornet name being used by a car maker. But I do see the value in getting it local, I just cant afford the top ones price.

Out of interest can you do the same with the Nitron?

[Kickaha]

Well Dan Kyle Racing do the full spec one with hydrolic preload etc as a special deal at $919.
When the spring or valving is wrong will he change it free of charge as part of the purchase price?

[Robert Taylor]

Kickaha has raised an important question......................

Everything we sell we provide the same level of backup for. We are also totally focused on the local market.

[AllanB]

Well Dan Kyle Racing do the full spec one with hydrolic preload etc as a special deal at $919. That because one of there techs is a fan of the Hornets which are called 919s there due to the Hornet name being used by a car maker. But I do see the value in getting it local, I just cant afford the top ones price.

Out of interest can you do the same with the Nitron?

That will be US$ plus shipping to GodZone

[nzspokes]

When the spring or valving is wrong will he change it free of charge as part of the purchase price?

I believe he developed this specific part number for the 919(hornet). He did the dyno runs etc and he says they are the biggest reseller of Ohlins in the world. So I would imagine it is pretty well there set up wise. And a spring is a cheap part of the set up.

But I will get one off Robert when the funds allow, as I said it will be the base version. I presume I can up spec it at a later time.

[nzspokes]

That will be US$ plus shipping to GodZone

Yes, works out to about the same price as the base version here.

[Robert Taylor]

Yes, works out to about the same price as the base version here.

With the very quick calculation that I have done, export price plus shipping cost plus clearance charges at the border plus gst on the value of the goods, on fees and freight it currently works out at a little over $1400 NZ. Do you concur?

[pete-blen]

Cost me $698NZ on my door step for the Ohlins for my XTR from Germany ..
It was there base model Ohlins... 46DR1 from memory
There Wilbers shocks are even cheaper...
They e-mailed a question form...
rider weight / rider hight / type of rideing / required bike ride hight / if the bikes weight has been changed...
I wanted 35mm static sag & 80mm rider sag... both are with in 5 mm...
They mainly do XTX , XTR ,XTZ parts
http://www.off-the-road.de/Shipping-costs-time/

[pritch]

So I would imagine it is pretty well there set up wise.


For their roads, not our goat tracks.

Not to say Dan Kyle is not good to deal with, I have bought stuff from Kyle Racing that was unavailable here. Mainly CRG levers, mirrors and crash bungs at various times.

[Robert Taylor]

Cost me $698NZ on my door step for the Ohlins for my XTR from Germany ..
It was there base model Ohlins... 46DR1 from memory
There Wilbers shocks are even cheaper...
They e-mailed a question form...
rider weight / rider hight / type of rideing / required bike ride hight / if the bikes weight has been changed...
I wanted 35mm static sag & 80mm rider sag... both are with in 5 mm...
They mainly do XTX , XTR ,XTZ parts
http://www.off-the-road.de/Shipping-costs-time/

Was there clearance and gst?

[nzspokes]

With the very quick calculation that I have done, export price plus shipping cost plus clearance charges at the border plus gst on the value of the goods, on fees and freight it currently works out at a little over $1400 NZ. Do you concur?

I would say thats about right, not looked that deeply into it.

On another note, I was at Hampton today. 3 times out of turn 5 I lost traction under power. Last time I hit 6500 rpm then she jumped up to the limiter. Yes it was somewhat wet you could say. Others were not having that much of an issue with it. Could this be a symptom of bad shock set up? Yes I was trying to be careful with the throttle.

[pete-blen]

Was there clearance and gst?


None was charged..... I was waiting for a letter to let me know what the GST was
but it just turned up on my door step...
luck of the draw... I payed GST on my exhaust pipe but like the shock
a fuel tank I got a while ago wasn't charged any...
I alway calc the GST in to the prise then wait to see what happens...

[Robert Taylor]

None was charged..... I was waiting for a letter to let me know what the GST was
but it just turned up on my door step...
luck of the draw... I payed GST on my exhaust pipe but like the shock
a fuel tank I got a while ago wasn't charged any...
I alway calc the GST in to the prise then wait to see what happens...

Yes I think I already knew the answer anyway. The theoretical threshold that customs become interested at is I think around NZ$400. It is also dependent on other factors like how busy they are with incoming volume etc. One thing that is clear is that if you had two identical shipments in every way, right on the threshold, one addressed to a business and one to a private address the business address would be the very first to be targeted.

I occassionally bring in the odd thing for private use and would have no argument in paying a set clearance fee and gst for even the tiniest items. The double standards at customs and a reluctance by Government to totally level the playing field ( so that NZ business is not disadvantaged ) is just wrong wrong wrong.

[Robert Taylor]

I would say thats about right, not looked that deeply into it.

On another note, I was at Hampton today. 3 times out of turn 5 I lost traction under power. Last time I hit 6500 rpm then she jumped up to the limiter. Yes it was somewhat wet you could say. Others were not having that much of an issue with it. Could this be a symptom of bad shock set up? Yes I was trying to be careful with the throttle.

If the rear end steps out under power ( too readily ) it is usually indicative that the rear shock is in some way too stiff and you are not getting enough weight transfer under power to place enough contact patch load on the tyre. If the rear ride height is too high or the rear axle position is a long way back that will also encourage ''stepping out'' a little earlier

On a wet track your laptimes may be around 10% slower so as a rule of thumb your suspension settings should be about 10% softer. You cannot power on as early ( because the track is wet ) so there is no weight transfer to aid exit grip. So you soften the rear end a little so that less force is required to allow it to move

What there is to learn about suspension is just endless!

[nzspokes]

If the rear end steps out under power ( too readily ) it is usually indicative that the rear shock is in some way too stiff and you are not getting enough weight transfer under power to place enough contact patch load on the tyre. If the rear ride height is too high or the rear axle position is a long way back that will also encourage ''stepping out'' a little earlier

On a wet track your laptimes may be around 10% slower so as a rule of thumb your suspension settings should be about 10% softer. You cannot power on as early ( because the track is wet ) so there is no weight transfer to aid exit grip. So you soften the rear end a little so that less force is required to allow it to move

What there is to learn about suspension is just endless!

With the stock shock there is very little to adjust. I had thought about dropping the preload but then it got called off due to the rain.

On another note again, I am thinking about a bike change in the next wee while to a few years old GSXR750. I would obviously need it sprung for my weight but how are the stock shocks on them?

[Robert Taylor]

With the stock shock there is very little to adjust. I had thought about dropping the preload but then it got called off due to the rain.

On another note again, I am thinking about a bike change in the next wee while to a few years old GSXR750. I would obviously need it sprung for my weight but how are the stock shocks on them?

What model year?

[nzspokes]

What model year?

I would like to get about a 2010, maybe a 08 or 09.

[pete-blen]

One thing that is clear is that if you had two identical shipments in every way, right on the threshold, one addressed to a business and one to a private address the business address would be the very first to be targeted.



Bugger , think yer could be right.... I had the exhaust pipe delivered to work..... If what yer say is correct I might have saved $160
if I gave my home addy.... shock & tank were delivered to home with no GST added....

[pritch]

I saw somewhere that FedEx consignments seem to receive disproportionate attention from Customs. My limited experience tends to confirm that.

The problems perceived by the NZ retail industry (and Robert) about the lack of GST on low value private imports are probably more imagined than real. The current high cost of airmail postage /freight has killed the last few US purchases I was contemplating.

[Robert Taylor]

I would like to get about a 2010, maybe a 08 or 09.

These are pretty good for a stock shock and using our dyno we have been able to improve further ( to be better suited to trackdays ) without recourse to ''needing'' an aftermarket piston. Even with an aftermarket piston and a setting bank of alternate settings you are still ''flying blind'' and frankly a lot of the suggested settings are still well clear of the mark. You may of course also require a different rate spring.
In this instance you get a much better result spending money on dyno runs rather than an aftermarket piston kit. Which frankly still needs dyno runs!!!
The GSXR still needs ride height in the rear but in this instance that can neatly be faciltated by placing washers between the frame and 'U' clevis that the top of the shock mounts to.
This will not of course turn it into a high performance level aftermarket shock but will still give you a very decent level of improvement. In these areas our business meets the market

[Robert Taylor]

Bugger , think yer could be right.... I had the exhaust pipe delivered to work..... If what yer say is correct I might have saved $160
if I gave my home addy.... shock & tank were delivered to home with no GST added....

What though I am also saying is that clearance and GST should be charged on everything that enters the country, no matter how small and whether its for a business or a private individual. If I import anything as a private individual I would have no issue with that . We expect the Government to as of right provide us all manner of services, to do so they need reasonable tax revenues. This is not about creating a new tax, its about collecting tax where they are failing to do so.

In reality as a basis of comparison businesses ( who provide people employment ) are effectively being victimised by this non level playing field. Effectively also no collection of tax on a whole plethora of private imports is not too dissimiliar to a ''black economy''.

The news media and some politicians refer to ''the business sector'' as if its one only and relatively insignificant sector of society. I personally think they are being disparaging. Without the ''business sector'' and therefore the employment they provide, the capital they generate and the taxes they pay there would be no economy.

[Robert Taylor]

I saw somewhere that FedEx consignments seem to receive disproportionate attention from Customs. My limited experience tends to confirm that.

The problems perceived by the NZ retail industry (and Robert) about the lack of GST on low value private imports are probably more imagined than real. The current high cost of airmail postage /freight has killed the last few US purchases I was contemplating.

See my immediate past post that effectively is saying that there is a disproportionate DISINTEREST in collecting tax on privately imported goods.

Airmail costs sure arent going to go down and as a business we have to be very mindful of having big enough shipments to consolidate the freight and reduce unit freight costs per item. Customers have to understand that because that is part of the battle in trying to compete with non taxed privately imported items. Because of same there is always a wait time and its a real juggling act.

These issues are very real.

[nzspokes]

These are pretty good for a stock shock and using our dyno we have been able to improve further ( to be better suited to trackdays ) without recourse to ''needing'' an aftermarket piston. Even with an aftermarket piston and a setting bank of alternate settings you are still ''flying blind'' and frankly a lot of the suggested settings are still well clear of the mark. You may of course also require a different rate spring.
In this instance you get a much better result spending money on dyno runs rather than an aftermarket piston kit. Which frankly still needs dyno runs!!!
The GSXR still needs ride height in the rear but in this instance that can neatly be faciltated by placing washers between the frame and 'U' clevis that the top of the shock mounts to.
This will not of course turn it into a high performance level aftermarket shock but will still give you a very decent level of improvement. In these areas our business meets the market

Thanks for that. I will keep it in mind. Not sure if that will go ahead but I will want it right.

It will either be the Gix750 or the Hornet being kept in which case I will save for a Ohlins for it.

[Ocean1]

The news media and some politicians refer to ''the business sector'' as if its one only and relatively insignificant sector of society. I personally think they are being disparaging. Without the ''business sector'' and therefore the employment they provide, the capital they generate and the taxes they pay there would be no economy.

The "productive sector" if you please!

:facepalm:

[AllanB]

A stock shock has a lot to contend with - designed to cover global roads, a huge range of rider weights etc etc. However given the internal components in any form of half-way trying shock are the same (pistons, valves, shafts) it is surprising that the internals are not designed better - it's not like there is not a lot of information out there. Sure bulk production, lesser quality metals maybe, but disappointing still.

And to top it off the stock shock is usually the same or dearer than a Ohlins replacement - so not savings to the consumer for economies of scale.

[pritch]

A stock shock has a lot to contend with - designed to cover global roads, a huge range of rider weights etc etc.

Not quite, they are designed to a theoretical average rider, the figure 84kg rings a bell. The Honda international testing team, the head of which is in Britain, have to keep within a kg or so either way of whatever the weight is.

The engineers can do better, but then the accountants come along and want a cheaper item - so cheaper it is.

[Robert Taylor]

Not quite, they are designed to a theoretical average rider, the figure 84kg rings a bell. The Honda international testing team, the head of which is in Britain, have to keep within a kg or so either way of whatever the weight is.

The engineers can do better, but then the accountants come along and want a cheaper item - so cheaper it is.

In fairness to much maligned accountants its also about the customers price expectations. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Regardless the marketing guys always find a way of making tripe sound like strawberry jam.

[nzspokes]

Regardless the marketing guys always find a way of making tripe sound like strawberry jam.

Well that sounds like a Hornet. Stonking motor with rubbish suspension. Forks will be coming apart soon for fettling.

[AllanB]

In fairness to much maligned accountants its also about the customers price expectations. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Yet still we moan - look at the bitching about the new Yammy triple - what does one expect for a $14k bike - apparently suspenders the equivalent of a $30k one!


Honda made 'improvements' in 04 to the Hornet - adjustable front end and rear, also changed rear shock rate. Still lots of room for improvement .....:laugh:

[SVboy]

The revalve work RT did to my trackday GSXR 600 and especially my road GSXR 600 were night and day improvements. Money well spent.

[nzspokes]

Honda made 'improvements' in 04 to the Hornet - adjustable front end and rear, also changed rear shock rate.

All they did was add slow speed rebound adjustment. Spring rate did not change. Guy up here has measured early and late.

I now have a spacer....:yes:

[gwynfryn]

Hey nzspokes do you still have the kx125 for sale?

[nzspokes]

Spacer in and it works as claimed. Did RT gold valves in the forks at the same time. Will be an interesting ride to work tomorrow.

[nzspokes]

Wow those gold valves do what they say on the packet...