Modified LAMs bikes?

[iranana]

Alright, with the talk of these motorcycle safety campaigns and shit I'm a little concerned about getting pulled over now. I have expansion chambers on my LAMs approved 250 smoker, but I'm not actually entirely sure whether that's entirely legal. I'm sure it's still under the power to weight ratio, but I can't necessarily prove that unless I go and dyno it. The NZTA website states that:


All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under [are allowed], except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list above.
The following list of motorcycles with engine capacities between 251cc and 660cc - these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio.


So does that mean we can modify our 250s as long as we keep it under the power to weight ratio? Because based on the LAMs criteria that's kind of what they're implying. Just want to get it straight before I get puller over... I doubt most cops would know much about chambers (and their performance perks), but they're big, loud, and obviously aftermarket...

[pritch]

these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio.
[/LIST]

So does that mean we can modify our 250s as long as we keep it under the power to weight ratio? Because based on the LAMs criteria that's kind of what they're implying.

I'm not a lawyer but your interpretation appears overly optimistic. Don't interpret it, just read it. They are not "implying" anything, that's a fairly unequivocal statement. It does however appear to relate specifically to bikes over 251cc.

Your 250 may be OK, so just ride so as not to draw attention to yourself.

[MisterD]

I take it to mean that any engine-related performance upgrades are a no-no. Of course if it's a 1978 bike with new pipes on it, you'll probably get a long way with "they perform no different than the originals that rusted out".

[iranana]

Upon further reading it would seem that any modification made with the intention of increasing power is forbidden, regardless of engine capacity... Noise is my main concern... when it gets on the pipe, it sure does draw attention to itself. But they can't really prove then and there that the pipes make much of a difference can they? Heck, two strokes don't have an even power output through their rev range anyway, so for all they know the pipes could be making peak power at an inaccessible 10,000 RPM, and making less power than stock below that. It's just a 250 from 1978... and the original pipes were actually pretty stuffed...

[SMOKEU]

It's an old bike that most cops have never seen, so how will they even know the exhausts aren't standard?

[iranana]

It's an old bike that most cops have never seen, so how will they even know the exhausts aren't standard?

The rear hanger brackets I had to fabricate look a bit home-job-ish haha. I'll clean them up a bit and make them look legit. I should be fine, but after reading the threads about these safety campaigns and on the spot WOF checks it had me wondering. I'll just leave em on and ride at my own risk. Never been pulled over in my 6+ years of driving and 3+ years of riding (I was on my learners for a looong time) so I guess that counts for something..

[SMOKEU]

The rear hanger brackets I had to fabricate look a bit home-job-ish haha. I'll clean them up a bit and make them look legit. I should be fine, but after reading the threads about these safety campaigns and on the spot WOF checks it had me wondering. I'll just leave em on and ride at my own risk. Never been pulled over in my 6+ years of driving and 3+ years of riding (I was on my learners for a looong time) so I guess that counts for something..

I seriously doubt that any cop will even mention the exhausts, unless it's "excessively" noisy, which is a very subjective thing. Old vehicles usually have aftermarket bits and pieces fabricated. If you're that worried, a can of spray paint can make things look a bit more standard looking for brackets and shit like that. Just chill, and ride it!

[Asher]

The way I read it is that modifications are allowed for bikes 250cc or less, the no mod rule only applies for bikes between 251 and 660cc's.

[MarkW]

Alright, with the talk of these motorcycle safety campaigns and shit I'm a little concerned about getting pulled over now. I have expansion chambers on my LAMs approved 250 smoker, but I'm not actually entirely sure whether that's entirely legal. I'm sure it's still under the power to weight ratio, but I can't necessarily prove that unless I go and dyno it. The NZTA website states that:


All motorcycles with engine capacities of 250cc and under [are allowed], except for those on the LAMS-prohibited list above.
The following list of motorcycles with engine capacities between 251cc and 660cc - these motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the power-to-weight ratio.


So does that mean we can modify our 250s as long as we keep it under the power to weight ratio? Because based on the LAMs criteria that's kind of what they're implying. Just want to get it straight before I get puller over... I doubt most cops would know much about chambers (and their performance perks), but they're big, loud, and obviously aftermarket...

This needs NO explanation at all if you simply read what is written:

Is your motorcycle 250cc or less? Yes - is it on the banned list? Yes = not LAMS
Is your motorcycle 250cc or less? Yes - is it on the banned list? No = LAMS standard or modified
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? No - then see above
Is your motorcycle 251ccor more? Yes - is it on the approved list? Yes - is it standard? Yes = LAMS
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? Yes - is it on the approved list? Yes - is it standard? No = not LAMS
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? Yes - is it on the approved list? No = not LAMS

The process is really simple so if your RD is 250cc or less then it can be as highly altered as you like provided it is not on the banned list and from memory the RD is not mentioned as it is too old.

Hope this helps

Mark W

[pzkpfw]

This page: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/approved-motorcycles.html says:


Please note

Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

If you are a rider on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence, it is your responsibility to ensure you are riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer.


Does anyone know the specific act that set up LAMS? Best to read the actual words of law, not some "fact sheet".


Edit: been digging around in legislation.govt.nz but have not found anything very specific. Anything I did find did seem to indicate the "no modifications" thing applies over 250 - so as usual the law in an ass. Other places mention "approved" motorcycles, but I couldn't find a definition of that, for example, anything that clearly said "modification removes approval".

[iranana]

Ok, so it seems this is a bit of a grey area really. I'm still under the impression that any mod that increases the power to weight ratio is not allowed, regardless of engine capacity. But looks like I'll be fine unless I really piss someone off, or get pulled over by a cop who's having a shitty day...

[oneblackflag]

Mines Exhaust is all obviously modded, and loud... Haven't been pulled up but have gone past cops with it wound out. Not to worried myself, especially since people are saying its 251cc and over.

[oneblackflag]

When I changed to a replacement pipe that was noisier than the original I just pushed some steel wool down it when getting a warrant but it does blow out after a while.

I'm liking that warrent tip:shifty::niceone:

[SMOKEU]

Ok, so it seems this is a bit of a grey area really. I'm still under the impression that any mod that increases the power to weight ratio is not allowed, regardless of engine capacity. But looks like I'll be fine unless I really piss someone off, or get pulled over by a cop who's having a shitty day...

How can they prove which bike came with what parts, especially when the bike was made in the 1970s and has been out of production for many years? Then you have to account for the fact that the "same" model of bike will have different parts depending on the intended market.

You can't expect every cop to have an intimate knowledge of every single vehicle on NZ roads.

[Mushu]

You'll be alright, my bike is a DR650 and it has a non standard exhaust and I have had cops point out how loud it is but never mentioned that it makes it uncompliant under LAMS, do I would say most don't care. My excuse is that it gets ridden in the bush so must have a spark arrester and if that doesn't work I can always just chuck the stocker back on but in your case I think you should be able to argue the point that being under 251cc it can be modified, just carry a copy of the LAMS fact sheet that says so.

[george formby]

This needs NO explanation at all if you simply read what is written:

Is your motorcycle 250cc or less? Yes - is it on the banned list? Yes = not LAMS
Is your motorcycle 250cc or less? Yes - is it on the banned list? No = LAMS standard or modified
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? No - then see above
Is your motorcycle 251ccor more? Yes - is it on the approved list? Yes - is it standard? Yes = LAMS
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? Yes - is it on the approved list? Yes - is it standard? No = not LAMS
Is your motorcycle 251cc or more? Yes - is it on the approved list? No = not LAMS

The process is really simple so if your RD is 250cc or less then it can be as highly altered as you like provided it is not on the banned list and from memory the RD is not mentioned as it is too old.

Hope this helps

Mark W

:shit::facepalm:
You're a bad man. Got my eye on a nice fat spannie t'other day which would do wonders for Rossi's bike.:innocent:

[blackdog]

When I changed to a replacement pipe that was noisier than the original I just pushed some steel wool down it when getting a warrant but it does blow out after a while.

Do a little experiment with some steel wool and a cigarette lighter.

Now ask yourself 'why the fuck would anyone ever stick that down an exhaust system'?

Then ask your friend rastuscat if it is any fun watching your bike being incinerated.

[blackdog]

I'm liking that warrent tip:shifty::niceone:

I wouldn't...

[FJRider]

When I changed to a replacement pipe that was noisier than the original I just pushed some steel wool down it when getting a warrant but it does blow out after a while.

Just understand ... when YOU take your bike in to get a WOF ... it is the bike getting tested ... NOT you.

The testing establishments have THEIR requirements for WOF. No allowance is made for the registered owner to be unlicensed to ride it legally on the road. The key words are ... fitted ... to improve the power to weight ratio. If it is not fitted for that purpose (On some older bikes, original pipes are hard to get and expensive) ... or fails to improve the power to weight ratio ... it should be deemed legal.

[FJRider]

The way I read it is that modifications are allowed for bikes 250cc or less, the no mod rule only applies for bikes between 251 and 660cc's.

You read correctly ...

[FJRider]

Ok, so it seems this is a bit of a grey area really. I'm still under the impression that any mod that increases the power to weight ratio is not allowed, regardless of engine capacity. But looks like I'll be fine unless I really piss someone off, or get pulled over by a cop who's having a shitty day...

There is no grey area. OVER 251 cc No modifications to increase the power to weight ratio are allowed.

End of story.

[ducatilover]

Cool, my DR600/GN250 is LAMS legal then

[Laava]

Quit worrying about it and just enjoy riding it.

[rastuscat]

Steelo pads crate awesome spark clouds at high speed.

From experience, it's heart stopping watching a bike go up in flames.

[iranana]

Steelo pads crate awesome spark clouds at high speed.

From experience, it's heart stopping watching a bike go up in flames.

I can imagine - I watched my parents car burn once (something in the rear differential failed, it drained itself of oil and shit caught on fire :facepalm:) Damn that was a sight and a half. On a rural road too. Closest house was quite a walk away. By the time the fire brigade got there it was a fire ball. Never blew up though (props to the fire men who jimmied open the fuel tank of the flaming wreck and filled it with that foam stuff)

[Ransom]

It is a very vague law

If i remove the heavy factory rear rack rear footpegs and factory tool kit from my 650 its power to weight changes and so its not LAMS

If i install a hidden booster chip or tweak the ecu its invisible but ups the power to weight ratio and noone will ever know

If i put a 740cc bigbore kit in it noone would ever know from the outside

Exhaust seems too easy for cops to pick on if its too loud and does not have factory markings on it

Probably the only time the bike would get a check to see if its LAMS compliant is if you use it for a practical license test L to restricted or restricted to full

Warrant check does not care if its LAMS or not as long as its not too loud dangerous or obviously highly modified

[R650R]

I am SOOOOO going to shove some steel wool up my exhaust pipe, sounds awesome fun... expect it to be as good as the time I made some lightweight homemade magnesium brake pads...

As others said it only needs to be LAMS when learner riding it, or crashing as the case might be, nothing to do with WOF guys.
If you do come to greif I'd make the cops try and prove its not LAMS condition, be too much paperwork and you'd prob just get speed ticket or whatever instead.
Below - NOT LAMS approved but rider is Full classes 1-6 rogerrrrrrr btw someone mentioned noise, the limit is way high for bikes, not to be worried about unless you have a modded Harley etc...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/7180486362_f154d120a9.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/7180486362/)
DR7_0188 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/77819625@N08/7180486362/) by DR650NZ (http://www.flickr.com/people/77819625@N08/), on Flickr

[Dazh]

It is not vague at all, it is pretty simple! But the truth of the matter is, if your bike is on the approved LAMS list very few cops will care or even look to see if you have modified it in a way that makes in non LAMS compliant.

[avgas]

Can you get new chambers for a rd250 these days that aren't "modified"? I think that's an argument in itself.

Does it qualify for classic status yet?

[GrayWolf]

Can you get new chambers for a rd250 these days that aren't "modified"? I think that's an argument in itself.

Does it qualify for classic status yet?

The simple answer is, the RD250 (air cooled) were NEVER manufactured with expansion chambers.... the 250LC was Yam's first 'factory expansion' The Suzuki X7 was the other 'factory expansion' OEM exhaust pipe.Possibly the younger Popo of today would not realise this, but I am sure there are plenty of 40+ popo out there who DO know the difference...
If the pipes are really loud, you could ge a pair of 'stingers' made and welded on, to reduce the crackle somewhat.

[avgas]

The simple answer is, the RD250 (air cooled) were NEVER manufactured with expansion chambers.... the 250LC was Yam's first 'factory expansion' The Suzuki X7 was the other 'factory expansion' OEM exhaust pipe.Possibly the younger Popo of today would not realise this, but I am sure there are plenty of 40+ popo out there who DO know the difference...
If the pipes are really loud, you could ge a pair of 'stingers' made and welded on, to reduce the crackle somewhat.
I think you missed my question.
Can you get OEM exhausts for RD250 that don't have the banana pipe expansion cambers.
i.e. straight through, same diameter header pipes.....like the good old days.

All the ones I have seen (as aftermarket spares) are no longer like that - but it could be just I haven't seen them. Most now come with a very slight expansion chamber where straight bent pipe would have been. (for the 250's anyway).

In saying that I have seen plenty of new 400's without the expansion chambers (and new pipes). So it could just be a choice of the 250 riders out there.

[GrayWolf]

I think you missed my question.
Can you get OEM exhausts for RD250 that don't have the banana pipe expansion cambers.
i.e. straight through, same diameter header pipes.....like the good old days.

All the ones I have seen (as aftermarket spares) are no longer like that - but it could be just I haven't seen them. Most now come with a very slight expansion chamber where straight bent pipe would have been. (for the 250's anyway).

In saying that I have seen plenty of new 400's without the expansion chambers (and new pipes). So it could just be a choice of the 250 riders out there.

Sorry missed this reply...
from dim distant memory....
I believe the RD250/350/400 OEM mufflers are identical, the only difference was the length of the downpipe (slightly longer) on the RD400 due to the longer stroke.
Another VERY viable option is the standard pipes from an RD250/350LC (non YPVS) I know these were used successfully on the air cooled bikes.
I had gone onto big 4 strokes before the arrival of the YPVS version, so have no real knowledge if they were 'good' on the air cooled bikes.