We have lost 13 [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Waihou Thumper

8th March 2014, 15:14

Viscount Montgomery

9th March 2014, 02:37

13 Motorcyclists have lost their lives this year....
Another one just down the road from me at lunchtime....
Sad fact indeed...

Fuck!

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/21879835/motorcyclist-dies-in-collision-with-truck/

13 fucking dead, no-ones fucking winning except the crematorium, young cunts and clueless old cunts, you can't fucking win, riding a bike use your fucking brain, cunts in cages don't give a fuck about anyone except themselves, intersections are deadly as fuck FFS WISE THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID CUNTS

gammaguy

9th March 2014, 03:35

chindit

9th March 2014, 06:52

there's old riders
there's bold riders
But there's no old bold riders

FJRider

9th March 2014, 07:18

there's old riders
there's bold riders
But there's no old bold riders

Bullshit ... There's plenty of old bold (and lucky) riders out there ...

You suggest the blame for those deaths ... rests entirely on the shoulders of those riders ... ???

Too many riders still believe if they have right of way ... they'll take it. Being in the right means little ... if you're going to end up dead.

And after strapping all the riding gear on ... it doesn't make you bullet proof.

Wingnut

9th March 2014, 07:33

Bullshit ... There's plenty of old bold (and lucky) riders out there ...

You suggest the blame for those deaths ... rests entirely on the shoulders of those riders ... ???

Too many riders still believe if they have right of way ... they'll take it. Being in the right means little ... if you're going to end up dead.

And after strapping all the riding gear on ... it doesn't make you bullet proof.

Cant help but see a slight irony with your signature...:niceone:

Regardless of the individual circumstances, loss is a terrible thing and leaves the lasting affects for those that remain...

unstuck

9th March 2014, 07:40

13 fucking dead, no-ones fucking winning except the crematorium, young cunts and clueless old cunts, you can't fucking win, riding a bike use your fucking brain, cunts in cages don't give a fuck about anyone except themselves, intersections are deadly as fuck FFS WISE THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID CUNTS

You need some prozac or weed or some fuckin thing, maybe a bullet between the eyeballs, but...........http://www.rottenecards.com/ecards/Rottenecards_12376330_rhg6s2n6pf.png

Wingnut

9th March 2014, 07:46

You need some prozac or weed or some fuckin thing, maybe a bullet between the eyeballs, but...........

Agreed. Fishing or not.... Stupid statement on his behalf

Blackbird

9th March 2014, 07:52

Bullshit ... There's plenty of old bold (and lucky) riders out there ....

The more they upskill, the luckier they get? :innocent:

Berries

9th March 2014, 08:10

FFS WISE THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID CUNTS
You'll have to shout louder than that.

Laava

9th March 2014, 08:33

SMOKEU

9th March 2014, 08:51

Until drivers are forced to treat a vehicle the same way the police expect us to treat a loaded firearm (with great care), nothing is going to change.

FJRider

9th March 2014, 09:20

Regardless of the individual circumstances, loss is a terrible thing and leaves the lasting affects for those that remain...

That's the bottom line it it all ..

Bravery is often confused with stupidity ... Death can come with both.

What you stand to gain from your risks makes the difference clear ...

R650R

9th March 2014, 09:21

nz_forever

9th March 2014, 09:22

I all so live just down the road from there ... Last night i went to have a look at the crash site was not nice at all.
Thows bike where going for it.
And yes i to know him.

FJRider

9th March 2014, 09:31

Yeah FJRider, I was lucky enough to be *555'd last Sunday. A car driver (woman and bloke in the'r forties) decided I was going round blind corners and touching yellow lines. WTF. Guess they must have been experts ? Or just spurts ?
The police were waiting 10ks down the road . Bike fans as it were !
10 minutes wasted out of my life, thats all !
Lecture wasted on someone like you, they said lol.

The same people ring the Fire Brigade at the first sight of smoke ... Open fire season or not. (Their Civic Duty apparently)

But Police are required to act on complaints that are made. But unless the complainant is prepared to stand up in court as a witness ... or the report dubious .. little action (apart from the lecture) is usually taken. Complaint made ... action taken. Both parties satisfied.

FJRider

9th March 2014, 09:41

The more they upskill, the luckier they get? :innocent:

All the skills in the world wont always save you ... but it may help ....

Ride at the limit of your skills ... and luck is all you rely on ...

Ulsterkiwi

9th March 2014, 09:49

An observation made without knowledge of all the numbers and without the intent of flaming: is it me or are there a disproportionate number of serious or fatal accidents in the Waikato? Is it just a population density thing? more bikes there? Am I completely wrong?

All that aside, that sucks, another family experiencing loss and all the fallout of that....horrible. :no:

James Deuce

9th March 2014, 10:31

Some of you whinging Grannies should just stop riding bikes. They're not right for you.

trustme

9th March 2014, 11:08

Would it be smart to find out what the hell happened before launching into the blame game.

My sympathy to all involved .

Motu

9th March 2014, 11:28

I don't think a safe fell out of the sky, but even then someone has to take the blame.

Mind you, I don't think the young truck driver at Rangiriri expected a truck engine to fall out of the sky either.

Waihou Thumper

9th March 2014, 11:40

I don't see the point in keeping track of the numbers. for the most part its being in the wrong place at wrong time when someone else makes a major error.
Early days anyway, crashes happen in spikes for some reason...

No, was just quoting. It isn't nice whichever way you look at it...One is too many for anyone concerned.
My thoughts go out to all, related or not...
We are aware, it happens or can happen at anytime....

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

Kornholio

9th March 2014, 11:52

Rosco was one of my best mates... Rest easy big fella.

Conquiztador

9th March 2014, 13:32

Rosco was one of my best mates... Rest easy big fella.

My sincere condolences to family and friends. This goes to all touched by the death of all 13 this year.

Apart from the earlier mentioned safe falling down on us, we riders are in most cases our own worst enemies. Every intersection, every truck and every car has the ability to kill you. It is your responsibility to make them fail.

James Deuce

9th March 2014, 13:33

Every intersection, every truck and every car has the ability to kill you. It is your responsibility to make them fail.

It's a pity more of us aren't Finnish.

Ocean1

9th March 2014, 14:05

James Deuce

9th March 2014, 14:12

One didn't need stats to come to that conclusion.

Ocean1

9th March 2014, 14:19

One didn't need stats to come to that conclusion.

That makes two if us.

But every time there's a blip in the local death stat's the response is exactly the same: Blame the dead guys for taking risks.

Hypocrisy is always a tad ugly.

trustme

9th March 2014, 14:32

Mushu

9th March 2014, 15:28

A great many riders own more than one bike . I have friends who have 10 or more & it may come as a surprise to you but they can only ride one at a time

Your analysis of the stats is self serving , you must have learned this from the LTSA

He has also managed to fudge the numbers against himself, correct me if I'm wrong but 0.02% is two in ten thousand (or one in 5000) but I agree that it is a classic example of stats being used to make a false claim.

haydes55

9th March 2014, 15:35

Number of registered motorcycles in NZ: 65000

Number of motorcyclist deaths in NZ: 13

13/65000 = 0.02%

That's two per thousand.

Some of you obviously don't find that acceptable.

In which case I can only suggest that you'd have to be idiots to continue riding.

Firstly, that's 2 in every 10,000

Number of years an average motorcyclist will ride for (complete guess) ~ 30

0.6% that's 6 in every thousand bikers that will die from riding motorbikes at some stage of their life.

Seeing how some people ride, they probably have closer to a 50% chance, some ride only down motorways and always end up with square tires, and probably have less than a 0.001% chance of dying on a bike.

(63% of all statistics are made up).

Ocean1

9th March 2014, 16:01

Firstly, that's 2 in every 10,000

Yeah, my bad.

Point remains, if you don't like the odds then not riding is probably a better preventative measure than blaming all the dead guys.

pipson

9th March 2014, 16:05

Conquiztador

9th March 2014, 16:07

Firstly, that's 2 in every 10,000

Number of years an average motorcyclist will ride for (complete guess) ~ 30

0.6% that's 6 in every thousand bikers that will die from riding motorbikes at some stage of their life.

Seeing how some people ride, they probably have closer to a 50% chance, some ride only down motorways and always end up with square tires, and probably have less than a 0.001% chance of dying on a bike.

(63% of all statistics are made up).

Statistics mean nothing to the ones left behind. No, Im am in no way trying to say that every rider who was killed (or was injured for that matter...) is at blame. A car that pulls out from a side road in front of you is clearly at fault. But that is not much help when you are dead. On a bike you MUST be prepared for that kind of shit. If you ride and expect the road code to save you, then sadly you are the next statistic awaiting to happen.

Disclaimer: I ride like an idiot at times too. But I try to always be expecting the unexpected (apart from the safe dropping down...)

Oakie

9th March 2014, 16:33

0.6% that's 6 in every thousand bikers that will die from riding motorbikes at some stage of their life.

They'd die at the very end of their life I'd suggest.

Waihou Thumper

9th March 2014, 16:44

Bloody hell, what the fuck is going on?

A motorcyclist has died in a race in Wairarapa, the second auto racing fatality of the weekend.
A police communications spokesman confirmed the man died in the crash, believed to have been at the Cliffhanger Hill Climb event.
His death comes a day after a 68-year-old man died during a vintage car race at Waikato's Hampton Downs Motorsport Park.
The driver of a 1961 Cooper open-wheel formula car failed to negotiate a sweeping bend and collided with a wall during the vintage car race on Saturday, police said.
There has also been a previous fatality in the Cliffhanger race.
Malcolm Foster, 59, of Tawa was killed in the closed-road event in 2012.
The event is held on Te Wharau Road, Gladstone. The 6,100m hill climb races up through the Wairarapa hills and negotiates 27 corners.

9th March 2014, 16:47

And another this afternoon.
A motorcyclist died at the scene on State Highway 39, just south of Ngaruawahia
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/waikato-road-closed-following-motocyclist-s-death-5861166

Shit it is just to many.

It gets worse. Look again, another today.

I don't know what the answer is. We keep dying at a rate that even people like me, that are addicted to riding and I admit I have my head in the sand at times towards the doom and gloom merchants, but weeks like this make it hard to ignore the risks are creeping up on us. Maybe we are all playing Russian roulette but I just can't see me every giving up riding. I just love it too much.

Waihou Thumper

9th March 2014, 16:50

and add
....So far and counting....:mad:

Bad weekend all round me thinks...

nz_forever

9th March 2014, 17:11

http://www.police.govt.nz/news/updates/32441

Hitcher

9th March 2014, 17:14

FFS. I hate this ghoulish death toll fascination shit. Think of a number and double it.

The count's probably 15, given the death at the Cliffhanger.

nz_forever

9th March 2014, 17:16

http://www.police.govt.nz/news/updates/32443

jellywrestler

9th March 2014, 17:17

0.6% that's 6 in every thousand bikers that will die from riding motorbikes at some stage of their life.

that means there's 994 die from other means, best stop that shit too

jellywrestler

9th March 2014, 17:21

His death comes a day after a 68-year-old man died during a vintage car race at Waikato's Hampton Downs Motorsport Park.
what's going on is you're not reading shit right. It was reported last night this driver didn't brake for the corner and may have suffered a medical event before hand. This then, if that's true, is the result of a heart attack or something else that happened to be while he was there.
go back to your plane crash and talk your shit there.

Stylo

9th March 2014, 17:22

How many of the 13 were wearing Hi-viz ?

James Deuce

9th March 2014, 17:26

Stats blip at the end of Summer instead of the start.

Just like the early season jump in heart attacks and neck and back injuries when club rugby starts up.

Now either go for a ride or give it up and take up knitting, bearing in mind that there are 2 knitting deaths globally every year. Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

Mental Trousers

9th March 2014, 17:39

FFS. I hate this ghoulish death toll fascination shit.

Threads like this one give me the shits.

BigAl

9th March 2014, 17:44

An observation made without knowledge of all the numbers and without the intent of flaming: is it me or are there a disproportionate number of serious or fatal accidents in the Waikato?

Certainly a lot of bikes on the Waikato rds every weekend, could be a combination of great roads and a big catchment area.

nz_forever

9th March 2014, 18:03

http://www.police.govt.nz/news/updates/32441
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/updates/32443

skippa1

9th March 2014, 18:10

Threads like this one give me the shits.
On more than one level.....

James Deuce

9th March 2014, 20:53

Hey cassina, instead of mouthing off about systems you know nothing about, you could do what I do and read about them and have a crack at them and then make an informed comment instead of an ignorant small-minded fucking poorly crafted dig, you fucking ignoramus. You may be surprised to note that the core of most decent road craft systems is observation and planning, not blind fucking obedience to a doctrine. Jesus H Christ could you be any more stupid? Learn before you bag something. Oh, and reading rude, blatantly hostile reactions to your idiocy, you know, like mine, is NOT learning about any particular training or road craft system. It's confirmation bias, using a poorly defined link that exists in only your mind to deride something you have no experience of.

I've investigated Alan Kirk's methods, a couple of different track-based schools, one on one training, a couple of ACC sponsored taining days, been in bike clubs whose focus was road craft, and not one, NOT ONE of those methods advocates blindly riding everywhere "at speed" (whatever the fuck that means, because it's different for everyone, a purely solipsistic experience with massively variable thresholds depending on age, experience, perception, visual cortex processing speeds, vestibular system capability and on and on) sacrificing safety in pursuit of "riding smoothly at speed" in blind ignorance of things like side roads with approaching traffic, farm gates, maximising vision to leverage the best possible outcome in a situation, blah, blah, fucking blah. Every single training system advocates using the advantages of a motorcycle to limit risk. Your personal approach seems to be to grind to a halt at the merest sign of velocity or inherent threat. How DO you get of bed?

My approach may be interpreted as unwelcoming. You'd be right. Just get a train pass and then you won't have to worry about side roads anymore.

SMOKEU

9th March 2014, 20:58

If possible I always slow slightly when I see a car approaching from a side road until I know they have stopped. I guess riding like that would not be considered smooth and fast but I would rather ride like that than end up dead by riding to some text book.

I do the same, and plan an escape route while I'm at it while ensuring I'm in a low enough gear to power out smoothly if need be.

george formby

9th March 2014, 22:04

Go James Deuce!
Cassina, I have yet to read that you have interpreted a thread or quoted a post correctly. Currently you seem to be the KB village idiot.

SMOKEU

9th March 2014, 22:12

Another thing I do if I am on the open road and see a lot of cars going the other way is I will ride on the left rather than the centre of the lane just in case a car decides to overtake without seeing me. Around town I will often do the opposite and ride towards the centre of the road in places where vehicles may pull out of driveways/side of the road.

Yeah, I do exactly the same. I always position myself (where appropriate) in a way that cagers can see me from the furtherest distance away, and for me to see them from far away. Of course this is pointless if the cager isn't actually looking in the first place.

Also watching out for blind spots is good in multi laned roads. A quick burt of throttle to get past does the trick. What really fucks me off is cagers who change lanes without indicating and/or turning their head to look behind them in their blind spots.

george formby

9th March 2014, 23:08

How about you and your mate Deuce just respect the fact that not everyone needs to go to a riding school or read lots of books to be able to ride safely?

See thread title. Don't rest on your laurels.

Erelyes

9th March 2014, 23:59

How about you and your mate Deuce just respect the fact that not everyone needs to go to a riding school or read lots of books to be able to ride safely?

And who qualifies that YOUR riding is safe? You?

Fuckin' know-it-alls...

Grubber

10th March 2014, 06:34

How about you and your mate Deuce just respect the fact that not everyone needs to go to a riding school or read lots of books to be able to ride safely?

So how did you get your licence again???

Considering you don't read any books as such or go to any coarse's, did they just chuck your licence over the fence to you when you got to the right age?

James Deuce

10th March 2014, 07:15

I did NOT say that you HAD to do courses or read books to ride safely. I SAID that you SHOULD investigate everything that you want to disagree with so you can do it from an informed point of view.

You are far more bound up in doctrine than any of the people you accusingly point the "riding fast and smooth" wibbly stick at. It's people like you who refuse to EVER learn anything new who maintain NZ's poor road safety stats. I bet you aren't in any accidents, but you see heaps of them.

Foul language? It's a fucking motorcycling site. I hear worse every day working in IT and that's just the women folk.

Mike.Gayner

10th March 2014, 07:27

Conquiztador

10th March 2014, 07:27

So how did you get your licence again???

Considering you don't read any books as such or go to any coarse's, did they just chuck your licence over the fence to you when you got to the right age?

FWIW, apart from getting my bike license in 1971, I have had no additional training how to stay alive. But clearly, against the odds, I am still alive. I am also far from the fastest or best rider around. But I ride accordingly (most of the time anyhow...). And I am quite content with that. By riding heaps in the past, and trialling different ways of doing stuff, I have found a style that suits me.

Also, many of my years on bikes have been spent on old bikes with looong forks, meaning that any techniques that are thaught would not really work. Have you ever tried to grab a handful of frontbrake on a rigid with a 22" extended springer? In the last 2 years I have got very little riding in as I have traveled with my youngest son to his MX racing 50 weekends a year. He has been injured since end of January (but will be back riding in a couple of weeks) and I have had an opportunity to do some more riding. I quickly realised that I was not riding as fluently as I did in the past. But with more time on the road I now feel I am close to where I used to be.

And my point with this ramble? Time in the saddle is what counts. By all means, read books, go to rider training, but if you don't get the hours in you will not be as good as you could be.

Grubber

10th March 2014, 07:45

While I agree to a certian extent I still believe there is nothing that will replace real tuition from experts in thw field. I have raced bikes on and off fro many years but my ability both on and off the the track did not imprive to the extent it did when I did some full on coarses. Unless you learn some real skills from such coarses you are only delving in what could be very bad habits.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

Quasievil

10th March 2014, 07:49

Anyone know how many of those 13 where single vehicle events ?

Banditbandit

10th March 2014, 08:20

FFS WISE THE FUCK UP YOU STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID CUNTS

If we really did that we would not ride bikes ...

blue rider

10th March 2014, 08:35

My sincere condolences to family and friends. This goes to all touched by the death of all 13 this year.

Apart from the earlier mentioned safe falling down on us, we riders are in most cases our own worst enemies. Every intersection, every truck and every car has the ability to kill you. It is your responsibility to make them fail.

can't give you no loves the computer says...but what you said needed to be repeated.

cs363

10th March 2014, 08:41

Hey cassina, could you be any more stupid?

Sadly, yes.
Every consecutive post confirms it.

sil3nt

10th March 2014, 12:17

No I mean when there is no cars in front but lots going the other way. I remember years ago MOT bike cops used to love riding behind me on my left in the hope I could not see them. I could though and had a frustrating wait flicking my eyes between them and the speedo before they realized I was aware they were there and they buggered off to entrap someone else.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f231/CruxisAurion/timetostopposting.jpg

Mushu

10th March 2014, 14:40

Have been in accidents but never my fault and in each case things happened too quick to even brake hence my reason why I don't see for myself rider training being of any benefit. If I was to have an accident that was my own fault it would likely be for going too fast where I know there is a safety trade off (unlike some on here) which I do not need riding lessons to know the consequences of. You can blame 2 irresponsible dog owners and a car driver for my accidents.
I too have been surprised by foul language from women in the workplace and thought I was on a building site when I first heard them. I don't mind it so bad from guys but I feel its uncalled for without knowing how I ride and to have to resort to foul language to try and sell the merit of something is hardly salesmanship in my opinion.

I think everyone who never did anything about improving their riding skills would say something similar to the above quote, won't be much comfort when you're lying in a ditch somewhere, even if the event that got you there "wasn't your fault".

Books, videos and professional training all have things to offer and just one piece of advice might be what saves your life one day, you're far better to learn everything you can while you can. I crashed my ninja once and while technically it wasn't my fault, the first thing I did was figure out how to change my riding habits to make sure I am prepared to deal with that situation if it ever arises again (and I have been in that position again since and made it through)

ZeroIndex

10th March 2014, 14:51

I think everyone who never did anything about improving their riding skills would say something similar to the above quote, won't be much comfort when you're lying in a ditch somewhere, even if the event that got you there "wasn't your fault".

Books, videos and professional training all have things to offer and just one piece of advice might be what saves your life one day, you're far better to learn everything you can while you can. I crashed my ninja once and while technically it wasn't my fault, the first thing I did was figure out how to change my riding habits to make sure I am prepared to deal with that situation if it ever arises again (and I have been in that position again since and made it through)
Agreed,

Have been in accidents but never my fault and in each case things happened too quick to even brake hence my reason why I don't see for myself rider training being of any benefit. If I was to have an accident that was my own fault it would likely be for going too fast where I know there is a safety trade off (unlike some on here) which I do not need riding lessons to know the consequences of. You can blame 2 irresponsible dog owners and a car driver for my accidents.
I too have been surprised by foul language from women in the workplace and thought I was on a building site when I first heard them. I don't mind it so bad from guys but I feel its uncalled for without knowing how I ride and to have to resort to foul language to try and sell the merit of something is hardly salesmanship in my opinion.

@Cassini: Even though you may say "it's not your fault", if you give yourself enough space, be aware of your surroundings, you might be able to avoid any nasty incidences. And that is what those rider training days do... teach you how to be mindful of your surroundings.

That said, with the wrong attitude, no amount of guidance will make a fucking difference.

Banditbandit

10th March 2014, 15:44

Look .. riding bikes is a dangerous and anti-social activity ... that's why I ride them - especially why I ride them faster than the law says I should ... I'm an old crazy and a risk taker ...

And yeah, I might die on the way home tonite because I'm riding my bike home ... but we all die sooner or later - no-one is allowed to get out of here alive - "so let me live my life the way I want to" ...

And before you all say "what about the people you leave behind?" Well, the people I care about all know what I think about it - and if I die riding a bike I hope they all get pissed at my funeral and have a good time ... which they will ...

Conquiztador

10th March 2014, 15:51

@Cassini: Even though you may say "it's not your fault", if you give yourself enough space, be aware of your surroundings, you might be able to avoid any nasty incidences. And that is what those rider training days do... teach you how to be mindful of your surroundings.

That said, with the wrong attitude, no amount of guidance will make a fucking difference.

You would have to be a muppet to need a training day to become mindful of your surroundings. That is not to say that training days are not benefitial. But if that is what you are hoping to come away with then you might be better of playing Road Rash on PS than to be on the road.

Banditbandit

10th March 2014, 15:54

That said, with the wrong attitude, no amount of guidance will make a fucking difference.

Who says "wrong attitude"??? What's your definition ??? Who has a "wrong attitude"???

That's completely judgemental

ZeroIndex

10th March 2014, 16:25

You would have to be a muppet to need a training day to become mindful of your surroundings. That is not to say that training days are not benefitial. But if that is what you are hoping to come away with then you might be better of playing Road Rash on PS than to be on the road.

I'm not talking about the track time, I'm talking about the classroom sessions. Although it should be common sense, it isn't always common. Having something pointing out something that should be obvious is sometimes enlightening.

Who says "wrong attitude"??? What's your definition ??? Who has a "wrong attitude"???

That's completely judgemental

I was referring to this:

Have been in accidents but never my fault and in each case things happened too quick to even brake

Wrong attitude: not accepting responsibility for incorrect following distance, not paying attention to what the vehicle ahead (or 2-3 cars ahead), side roads, pedestrians, stray animals.

The 2-second rule (although it should actually be a couple seconds more) is around to allow a person to maneuver, brake etc to avoid a collision if someone in front, behind or to the side of you does something unexpected.

cynna

10th March 2014, 16:31

unstuck

10th March 2014, 16:37

Look .. riding bikes is a dangerous and anti-social activity ... but we all die sooner or later - no-one is allowed to get out of here alive - "so let me live my life the way I want to" ...

...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WsQhuxPsSjE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:Punk::Punk:

Katman

10th March 2014, 16:40

.. riding bikes is a dangerous and anti-social activity ...

No it's not.

It sounds like that's just the way you like to make it.

Blackbird

10th March 2014, 16:44

You would have to be a muppet to need a training day to become mindful of your surroundings.

Bollocks :no:

Maybe not a training day but a series of training days specifically designed will really help your situational awareness. Police riding and driving programmes as well as commercial pilots, the military etc all have a strong focus on this element. What makes ordinary motorcycle riders so different? (Apart from some know-it-alls on KB of course)

ZeroIndex

10th March 2014, 16:57

Bollocks :no:

Maybe not a training day but a series of training days specifically designed will really help your situational awareness. Police riding and driving programmes as well as commercial pilots, the military etc all have a strong focus on this element. What makes ordinary motorcycle riders so different? (Apart from some know-it-alls on KB of course)
Yup, that's what I was trying to say, obviously my words were less cleverly chosen :)

PrincessBandit

10th March 2014, 17:26

And of course the number of deaths has featured on the 6pm news tonight. Any bets on how soon ACC will get into the ruck again?

Katman

10th March 2014, 17:30

And of course the number of deaths has featured on the 6pm news tonight. Any bets on how soon ACC will get into the ruck again?

And therein lies the problem.

The likes of Ocean1 might not give a shit about motorcycle deaths and the likes of Banditbandit will happily defend the right of motorcyclists to kill themselves through their own stupidity but it's the backlash that we will all feel from it that bothers me.

Wingnut

10th March 2014, 17:39

And therein lies the problem.

The likes of Ocean1 might not care about motorcycle deaths and the likes of Banditbandit will happily defend the right of motorcyclists to kill themselves through their own stupidity but it's the backlash that we will all feel from it that bothers me.

It doesn't bother me..... It flat out fucks me off! The bureaucrats using statistical analysis to favour their revenue gathering procedures.

Katman

10th March 2014, 17:41

It doesn't bother me..... It flat out fucks me off! The bureaucrats using statistical analysis to favour their revenue gathering procedures.

Perhaps we should stop giving them so much ammo.

ellipsis

10th March 2014, 17:55

Trade_nancy

10th March 2014, 18:03

Are fatal accidents actually a big cost for ACC? I assumed it was biker accidents leaving the rider/pillion maimed and needing care that was the big cost.

Katman

10th March 2014, 18:05

I assumed it was biker accidents leaving the rider/pillion maimed and needing care that was the big cost.

Don't worry - we're having plenty of those ones too.

george formby

10th March 2014, 18:12

...my bro in law just came out to visit...it's a problem elsewhere...money to ride, etc...it horrified me to know what he HAS to pay to ride a bike of the capacity he likes, in the UK...same shit...you wanna be part of the world, take the flak...or join the Akxle society...and as an aside, accidents are self generated but take a couple or more ingredients to bring to reality...getting up in the morning is one...

Yup, insurance is a killer. Got to factor in theft, too.
Subsidised rider training is getting bigger & bigger in the UK, some may say a rort, I may not disagree, but, for those who achieve the standards, insurance becomes cheaper, it employs motorcyclists & raises awareness of bikes to the general pubic. It also makes it easier for new & old riders to up skill without feeling like cocks.
The cheap pro rider courses are starting to open the same doors here.

Ocean1

10th March 2014, 19:03

And therein lies the problem.

The likes of Ocean1 might not give a shit about motorcycle deaths and the likes of Banditbandit will happily defend the right of motorcyclists to kill themselves through their own stupidity but it's the backlash that we will all feel from it that bothers me.

You really get off on being wrong doncha?

The motorcyclist I give a shit about is this one, the one I'm responsible for. The rest are responsible for themselves, and anyone else's opinion about their choices will affect that not a jot, which is exactly as it should be.

Katman

10th March 2014, 19:10

The motorcyclist I give a shit about is this one, the one I'm responsible for. The rest are responsible for themselves, and anyone else's opinion about their choices will affect that not a jot, which is exactly as it should be.

What a shame then that their choices will so often negatively impact on the rest of us.

Conquiztador

10th March 2014, 19:13

You really get off on being wrong doncha?

The motorcyclist I give a shit about is this one, the one I'm responsible for. The rest are responsible for themselves, and anyone else's opinion about their choices will affect that not a jot, which is exactly as it should be.

Yep. I keep my self alive. You guys do the same and we are on to a winner.

Ocean1

10th March 2014, 19:42

What a shame then that their choices will so often negatively impact on the rest of us.

With logic like that I could blame you for fixing bikes that may go on to kill their riders.

In fact I think I will, you deserve a good blaming.

Katman

10th March 2014, 19:51

With logic like that I could blame you for fixing bikes that may go on to kill their riders.

In fact I think I will, you deserve a good blaming.

My post is perfect logic.

It may not be considered fair that the actions of idiots will adversely impact on others but there's certainly no denying that it happens.

Maybe you're just too stupid to see it.

(And besides, the number of times that it's actually the motorcycle that kills the rider is statistically negligible. Your logic fails).

Berries

10th March 2014, 21:47

but I feel having a car for wet days is possibly better than a bike
So that is how you managed the 30 years. Driving.

Gremlin

10th March 2014, 21:56

The choice of bike plays a part too and no doubt riding schools would promote bikes with safety gizmos over ones without and the fact my bike does not have the latest you would no doubt also say I am at a greater risk but I feel having a car for wet days is possibly better than a bike with all the latest safety gizmos on a wet day.
See... this is what James was touching on, knowing what you're spouting off about, as otherwise, you only look like a fool.

The only school, training organisation or day, that I can think of, that had any connection to specific bike or bike brand, was the previous iteration of Superbike School, that had a fleet of Suzukis. Not sure of the exact arrangement. Otherwise, it's about knowing your bike, it's and your ability and working with that. Naturally, the "safety gizmos" in most considered opinions do make things safer, but given you seem completely close minded about training (after all, 30 years "not your fault") I won't even try to argue the value of "gizmos". As already said, it doesn't matter what bike you have, and other than the usual friendly jibes about brands, there is no discrimination or hidden motivation or kick back.

cc rider

11th March 2014, 01:42

Sad to hear of a fellow rider passing, isn't it everyone :(

Condolences to family & friends. Including those that may be on KB.

trustme

11th March 2014, 05:52

The motorcyclist I give a shit about is this one, the one I'm responsible for. The rest are responsible for themselves, and anyone else's opinion about their choices will affect that not a jot, which is exactly as it should be.

I'm alright Jack pull up,the ladder

Tried to use a ladder on site lately, the clobbering machine is forcing them off site

If we collectively don't sort this, it will be sorted for us, that is something I don't want.

PrincessBandit

11th March 2014, 06:09

.... The choice of bike plays a part too ....

Freda Grace has coined the phrase "bikes that match their ambitions rather than their ability".

Robbo

11th March 2014, 06:48

Freda Grace has coined the phrase "bikes that match their ambitions rather than their ability".

Yep, i saw that on the news. I think it sums the situation up pretty well in many cases.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 07:51

No it's not.

It sounds like that's just the way you like to make it.

Undoubtedly ...

What a shame then that their choices will so often negatively impact on the rest of us.

Oh yeah .. I'm part of the 1% or motorcyclists who ...

I was referring to this:

Wrong attitude: not accepting responsibility for incorrect following distance, not paying attention to what the vehicle ahead (or 2-3 cars ahead), side roads, pedestrians, stray animals.

OK .. I'll let you off ...

The motorcyclist I give a shit about is this one, the one I'm responsible for. The rest are responsible for themselves, and anyone else's opinion about their choices will affect that not a jot, which is exactly as it should be.

YES !!!!

Quasievil

11th March 2014, 08:22

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

Fact is a HUGE percentage of bikers ride like morons and kill themselves.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 08:29

Fact is a HUGE percentage of bikers ride like morons and kill themselves.

13 is Not a HUGE number ... as a percentage of the number of riders on the road, I wonder how it comes with the percentage of car drivers killed on the roads ..

Get a grip and get some perspective !!!

Yeah - every death leaves behind families and loved ones ... condolences to them all ... but don't blow up 13 into a HUGE number ...

Katman

11th March 2014, 08:35

13 is Not a HUGE number ...

It's a big enough number.

If the general public repeatedly get fed the information that road deaths in general are on the decrease while motorcycle deaths are on the increase, you can kiss goodbye to any widespread support we may have hoped for if the govt/ACC decide that the time is ripe to come down heavily on us yet again.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 08:36

So - do we try to stop people getting killed or do we fight the propaganda system? We will do better in political terms with the latter choice

Katman

11th March 2014, 08:38

......or do we fight the propaganda system? We will do better in political terms with the latter choice

Come on, you're not seriously that naive, are you?

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 08:44

Come on, you're not seriously that naive, are you?

What is politically naïve about fighting the propaganda system? Isn't that what we tried the last time? In the end, isn't that what all public political struggles are about? Fighting the other side's propaganda system? It's certainly what the election will be all about ..

Katman

11th March 2014, 08:44

What is politically naïve about fighting the propaganda system? Isn't that what we tried the last time? In the end, isn't that what all public political struggles are about? Fighting the other side's propaganda system? It's certainly what the election will be all about ..

Ok, I'll accept that you are actually that naive.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 08:58

Oh come on .. I could equally suggest that you are completely naïve in your attempts to stop riders getting killed on the roads - NEVER going to happen ..

Katman

11th March 2014, 09:09

Oh come on .. I could equally suggest that you are completely naïve in your attempts to stop riders getting killed on the roads - NEVER going to happen ..

So what you're saying is that we should have the right to ride as stupidly and irresponsibly as we like (regardless of what we're costing the country to put us back together) and when TPTB decide to come down hard on us again we should go crying to the public, claiming that it's all a propaganda hoax - even though those same members of the public might have come back from a weekend where they were carved up by a bunch of motorcyclists competing in the Coro GP, or almost got collected by a 200kph machine as they tried to exit their driveway on a quiet rural road or they lost a wing mirror to a motorcyclist who was aggrieved that they weren't left enough room to filter to the front of the line.

That's actually going beyond naive and starting to enter the realms of totally moronic.

Katman

11th March 2014, 09:19

Do you remember saying this?

.. riding bikes is a dangerous and anti-social activity ...

And yet you seem to think that all we have to do is get the public on our side by claiming that the numbers are all a bunch of lies.

Seriously, that's just the most retarded viewpoint I've heard in a long time.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 09:19

And are you seriously suggesting that there is a way to stop all that behaviour ?? By the same standards, that's beyond naïve as well

So - let's agree that we are framing each other's thinking in the wrong way ... (and I'll admit that I've deliberately prodded you - I have no excuse)

Yes, we should try to make our fellow riders safer on the roads .. and stop them harassing car drivers ... (and I will admit that, in the past, I have pretty much done all of the things you have listed above .. except on the Coro Loop, but certainly in other places ... and also that in recent times your words have made me think about my own actions on the road)

But equally we should provide some balance to the propaganda perpetrated against motorcycle riders ..

SMOKEU

11th March 2014, 09:19

So what you're saying is that we should have the right to ride as stupidly and irresponsibly as we like (regardless of what we're costing the country to put us back together) and when TPTB decide to come down hard on us again we should go crying to the public, claiming that it's all a propaganda hoax - even though those same members of the public might have come back from a weekend where they were carved up by a bunch of motorcyclists competing in the Coro GP, or almost got collected by a 200kph machine as they tried to exit their driveway on a quiet rural road or they lost a wing mirror to a motorcyclist who was aggrieved that they weren't left enough room to filter to the front of the line.

That's actually going beyond naive and starting to enter the realms of totally moronic.

How about forcing EVERY road user to take responsibility for their own actions, and hold them accountable if/when they fuck up.

Katman

11th March 2014, 09:22

And are you seriously suggesting that there is a way to stop all that behaviour ??

Absolutely.

It can be achieved (or at least reduced dramatically) by motorcyclists collectively starting to condemn other motorcyclists for riding like cocks.

'Cos if we don't, you can kiss goodbye to the degree of motorcycling freedom that we still have left.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 09:22

How about forcing EVERY road user to take responsibility for their own actions, and hold them accountable if/when they fuck up.

Nice, but not possible mate - how many of us open that throttle wide when there is no-one else around ?? And sometimes the consequences of fucking up are death .. you can't hold dead people any more accountable than they already are ..

To implement that suggestion means a cop watching every piece of road everywhere in the country 24 hours a day - not going to happen (luckily)

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 09:26

Absolutely.

It can be achieved by motorcyclists starting to condemn other motorcyclists for riding like cocks.

No - I'm sorry but that's totally naïve ... many of us do not give a flying fuck about what other nanny riders think ... peer pressure is never going to work ... Your words did not impact on my because of peer pressure - your words impacted on me because, after 58 years of kicking around on this planet, I actually quite like being alive ... and I've decided I want to keep it that way, at least for a while ...

30 years ago I didn't give a fuck - and I never expected to live to be this old ... and I rode accordingly - and nothing people like you could have said would make me changed ... I'm still amazed I'm still alive ...

Quasievil

11th March 2014, 09:34

So - do we try to stop people getting killed or do we fight the propaganda system? We will do better in political terms with the latter choice

This is all old news , this shit has been discussed forever.
My opinion and Im entitled to it FYI, is that bikers love thinking its all a propoganda and the government is out to get them tax them off the roads etc etc etc, when the FACT is Bikers regulary act like complete fucktards on the road they are mostly overflowing with self entitled attitudes, they treat the road like a race track and not a public road and they Die..............to Bad who cares !!..............until Bikers take some fucking ownership and stop blaming every one and everything else it wont bloody change.

p.s for me 30 years on bikes Zero crashes !! 10 mates dead and they all rode like fucktards very often !!

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 09:46

p.s for me 30 years on bikes Zero crashes !! 10 mates dead and they all rode like fucktards very often !!

Oh .... you're one of THEM ... well, for me, 40 years on a bike - still alive ... and I frequently rode like people like you would call "fucktard" ...

Do I want to play troll with you ?? Fuck off ... I play troll with people have a modicum of respect for ... you're not worth the shit arsehole.

Quasievil

11th March 2014, 10:08

Oh .... you're one of THEM ... well, for me, 40 years on a bike - still alive ... and I frequently rode like people like you would call "fucktard" ...

Do I want to play troll with you ?? Fuck off ... I play troll with people have a modicum of respect for ... you're not worth the shit arsehole.

WOW, that highlights alot about you, question...... who is trolling dickhead ? thats actually my opinion and im sticking to it.

SMOKEU

11th March 2014, 10:17

Nice, but not possible mate - how many of us open that throttle wide when there is no-one else around ?? And sometimes the consequences of fucking up are death .. you can't hold dead people any more accountable than they already are ..

To implement that suggestion means a cop watching every piece of road everywhere in the country 24 hours a day - not going to happen (luckily)

Riding fast on a quiet road is a lot different from not giving way at an intersection or driving on the wrong side of the road around blind corners.

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 11:00

WOW, that highlights alot about you, question...... who is trolling dickhead ? thats actually my opinion and im sticking to it.

Yeah - I know it's your opinion and you are sticking to it ... and I was trolling Katman a little ...

You're still an arsehole ...

Banditbandit

11th March 2014, 11:01

Riding fast on a quiet road is a lot different from not giving way at an intersection or driving on the wrong side of the road around blind corners.

Oh - now you're contextualizing it . which your original comment (here) did not ...

How about forcing EVERY road user to take responsibility for their own actions, and hold them accountable if/when they fuck up.

Paul in NZ

11th March 2014, 12:18

All of these articles / news items refer to ‘bikers’ as if this is some kind of unified group. It isn’t, there is a wide and diverse spectrum of riders in many sub categories. I think it’s more a big cluster of tribes where some members seamlessly move between tribes who sit next to close to one another on the spectrum AND can also hop from one extreme end to the other. Sport bikers who road race are close, racers who ride cruisers on the street or dirt bikers that belong to 1% clubs are not close on the spectrum. There are very few rules.

Inside each group there are wildly differing attitudes and skill sets. At the recent Polished Rockers do, 99% of people covering virtually every tribe had a great time but there were some who arrived on a bike and were drinking well in excess of the limit. Frankly a couple of them looked a bit ‘loose’ when they rocked up… The Police were at the end of the street but they were not deterred in the slightest.

So in short – while its easy to throw a blanket over all of us as ‘motorcyclists’ the reality is that you are talking about a very diverse group that is NOT well defined by that title.

Sadly this means that any measures to tackle accident/death rates is only going to partially effective because it will only appeal to certain sub tribes of motorcyclists. The great majority will be deaf to any message that is counter to their tribes ‘culture’.

Even more sadly this will limit the success of any initiative and the authorities will become frustrated and these measures will become more punishing than rewarding of good behaviour because that what authorities do. It’s a bleak outlook and I’m not looking forwards to it.

Have we got ‘ourselves’ to blame? Yes but since we are not even remotely unified or cohesive there is no US to become self regulating. A 1% isn’t likely to care about a trailies disapproval and a sport biker isn’t going to give a shit about a classic rider telling them to slow down.

One option is to narrow down the sub tribes most represented in the statistics and provide initiatives better targeted to them

SMOKEU

11th March 2014, 12:25

Oh - now you're contextualizing it . which your original comment (here) did not ...

In short: Ride/drive according to the conditions.