Schools and family expectations

[awa355]

I agree with much that is said in this article. Sadly, I see this atitude with my own grandsons parents.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11217883

[mashman]

I agree with much that is said in this article. Sadly, I see this atitude with my own grandsons parents.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11217883

They get it from their parents. Oh, hang on...............

[ellipsis]

...i got varicose veins from my old man...although my mum had them to, but she couldn't genetically pass them on...

[SMOKEU]

Another reason why I plan to never breed.

In saying that, little Smokeys running around will be quite beneficial for society.

[neels]

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.

Makes you wonder what's at the other end when these overstimulated kids end up in the daily grind of the real world.

[Berries]

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.
Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

The fact that you mention university as a measure of success puts you alongside those "uber parents" the story is dissing doesn't it?

[Grumph]

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.

Makes you wonder what's at the other end when these overstimulated kids end up in the daily grind of the real world.

Yep, the normal - or old school - way of doing it. Sadly it would appear to be out of fashion now.

personally, I reckon the right attitude is to prepare for slight surprise if university is achieved....

[MisterD]

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

Exactly. I think that parents are intuitively (let's steal that word) understanding that education system is continually being dumbed down and are trying, in the only way they can, to work against that trend.

My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.

[neels]

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

The fact that you mention university as a measure of success puts you alongside those "uber parents" the story is dissing doesn't it?


My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.
To be fair I did think that when I wrote it, and it's true that universities will happily take your money so you can get a student loan and an arts degree that qualifies you to ask people if they want fries with that.

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

[mashman]

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?

[Banditbandit]

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.



Yes. Unfortunately that's true .. the Government decreed a long time ago that as long as you were 20 years old you could enrol in university. (Is your jack Russell 20 years old?) There's nothing those of us working in tertiary education can do about that, except restrict the programmes they can enrol in by insisting on good high school grades in sciences for science courses etc ...

But if you are 20 you can enrol in tertiary education ... nothing else needed


Exactly. I think that parents are intuitively (let's steal that word) understanding that education system is continually being dumbed down and are trying, in the only way they can, to work against that trend.

My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.

I do not believe that the tertiary sector is being "dumbed down" - yes we have to accept people onto SOME degree programmes (like BAs) who probably would not meet any academic requirement, but they get in because they are 20+ years old ... BUT we do not have to pass them .. and I've failed quite a few in my time ...

And Science? A proper degree? A proper subject? Jeez - that demonstrates a massive misunderstanding of the nature of knowledge.

Ernst Mach said that to be a great scientist (and he was) required "intuition and a high level of conceptual skills". Einstein (and he was also a great scientist) said much the same thing ...

Do you think they will develop those skills counting fruit flies in test tubes? (Yes, I did start my university studies in Science)


To be fair I did think that when I wrote it, and it's true that universities will happily take your money so you can get a student loan and an arts degree that qualifies you to ask people if they want fries with that.

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

As above .... and we do not have to pass the drop kicks ...

(comment to everyone .. I get what you say here about your own children. ) Do not force your children into a path that they might regret later in life

[Tigadee]

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest.

:eek5: Good Lord, I have enough trouble coping with the kids' school homework already without thinking (like a stereotypical Asian parent) about violin/piano, ballet and extra math lessons!

Can't believe they get homework everyday (and the amount)! And not just stuff that gets done in half an hour - my eldest had to write a minimum 350-word report in one night and spent 3-4 hours after dinner researching, collating, writing, editing and proofreading!

By midnight, she asked me if I could read through it for her, and I had to say "Sorry no" because I'd already had a extra-long hard day at work and was knackered! (I'd planned for an early night but that got canned because I felt I should be there in case she needed any help.) She ended up with a 1,000+ word report...

:oi-grr: I insisted my kids walk to school, even though their mother - softie that she is - worried about rain and scorching sun... :tugger: I said cry me a river cause my eyes are dry. The klds already had a pretty sedentary lifestyle, so the 30 mins walk to school will do them good...

[oldrider]

Where ever you be let your kids go free .... but teach them to be accountable and responsible for their actions, both positive and negative. :blip:

[Mike.Gayner]

Yes. Unfortunately that's true .. the Government decreed a long time ago that as long as you were 20 years old you could enrol in university. (Is your jack Russell 20 years old?) There's nothing those of us working in tertiary education can do about that, except restrict the programmes they can enrol in by insisting on good high school grades in sciences for science courses etc ...

But if you are 20 you can enrol in tertiary education ... nothing else needed

The attitude that you're taking suggests that you believe we've reached the pinnacle of our ability after college, and if you didn't achieve well in college you're undeserving of higher education. That reeks of elitism and thankfully the evidence for higher education is so strong that recent governments haven't listened to obnoxious fuckwits like you.

My brother and myself hated college - he left after fifth form and I left after sixth. Both of us bummed around doing various things for a few years, and both of us ended up deciding to go to uni in our 20s. My brother initially studied physics and astronomy, before moving to a computer science degree and achieving outstanding marks. I studied law before moving away from that and settled on accountancy and business. Now my brother is a software developer for a major company and I'm an accountant-turned-finance manager. Not bad roles for a couple of blokes in their late 20's.

Neither of us had any real entry credentials - my brother had to study some college-level maths before being allowed into the physics programme. Thank fuck people like you don't get to horde higher education for themselves.

Oh, and more to the point of this thread, I agree entirely with the general sentiment. Our parents were fairly hands-off, which worked out well for us (though it looked a bit shaky in our late-teens). I will be letting my kids find their own way, but I will likely guide them towards trades because that's where the good, honest , well-paying work will be in the future.

[oldrider]

The attitude that you're taking suggests that you believe we've reached the pinnacle of our ability after college, and if you didn't achieve well in college you're undeserving of higher education. That reeks of elitism and thankfully the evidence for higher education is so strong that recent governments haven't listened to obnoxious fuckwits like you.

My brother and myself hated college - he left after fifth form and I left after sixth. Both of us bummed around doing various things for a few years, and both of us ended up deciding to go to uni in our 20s. My brother initially studied physics and astronomy, before moving to a computer science degree and achieving outstanding marks. I studied law before moving away from that and settled on accountancy and business. Now my brother is a software developer for a major company and I'm an accountant-turned-finance manager. Not bad roles for a couple of blokes in their late 20's.

Neither of us had any real entry credentials - my brother had to study some college-level maths before being allowed into the physics programme. Thank fuck people like you don't get to horde higher education for themselves.

Oh, and more to the point of this thread, I agree entirely with the general sentiment. Our parents were fairly hands-off, which worked out well for us (though it looked a bit shaky in our late-teens). I will be letting my kids find their own way, but I will likely guide them towards trades because that's where the good, honest , well-paying work will be in the future.

Your post is fair enough but I think you may have misread or misinterpreted Banditbandit somehow! :confused:

[Mike.Gayner]

Your post is fair enough but I think you may have misread or misinterpreted Banditbandit somehow! :confused:

Yeah upon re-reading, I think I got a bit worked up over nothing.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I got sucked into that whole "go to University and get a degree and get shit tons of money" bullshit.

I would advise anyone leaving school now to go out and get a trade. You get paid (shit pay, but better than nothing) to study, you learn something you can pretty much always do, and when you are finished you earn decent coin, and have no debt, and if you are any good and motivated you can start your own business. If you are any good at that, hard working and a little bit lucky, you will buy and sell your University educated brother after about 20 years in each respective game. That is anecdotal, but a direct comparison with my brother and I.

Slightly OT maybe. I dont recall my parents ever being very interested in what we were doing. Which was good. I liked to read a lot and play about on pushbikes and stuff. And split firewood (no really). I doubt todays parents would let their tiny little 12 year old loose with an axe....

[Banditbandit]

The attitude that you're taking suggests that you believe we've reached the pinnacle of our ability after college, and if you didn't achieve well in college you're undeserving of higher education. That reeks of elitism and thankfully the evidence for higher education is so strong that recent governments haven't listened to obnoxious fuckwits like you.


No - you have misinterpreted what I am saying - I do not believe that if you do not do well in college you are undeserving of education. The fact that people do not do well is more a reflection on the colleges and secondary education than it is on the students who do not achieve. And I do not believe that Universities and their like are the places where knowledge resides. "Experts" work in tertiary education - parasites who think they should be paid to think what they want and not be responsible to the people who pay their wages - the taxpayer (I'm about as popular in tertiary education circles as I am with you right now!)

Elitism would be a rather difficult position for me to maintain as I work in a Māori tertiary environment and our basic position is that the secondary school system has failed our people ... they have not done well in college, but we take them, each them and graduate time.

Equally, I was forced to enrol a person in a degree programme who had been assessed for a sheltered workshop. He was more than 20-years old - and there was no way that we could prevent him enrolling. I was told that the best thing we could do was enrol him and fail him as quickly as possible .. I said that was unethical - but there was nothing I could do to stop the enrolment ... (he did fail).

I assisted a woman who left school at 13 years old and had five kids before she was 20 gain a post-graduate qualification. I did so not by lowering the standards, but by helping her achieve the standards. She is now a teacher in tertiary environment.

I will teach anyone who walks into my classroom ... but I believe that you put people in the right place for their situation - and sometimes that might mean doing so bridging or foundation courses BEFORE they enrol in a degree, not matter how old or young they are. I do not believe that age alone equips people for degree level study ...



My brother and myself hated college - he left after fifth form and I left after sixth. Both of us bummed around doing various things for a few years, and both of us ended up deciding to go to uni in our 20s. My brother initially studied physics and astronomy, before moving to a computer science degree and achieving outstanding marks. I studied law before moving away from that and settled on accountancy and business. Now my brother is a software developer for a major company and I'm an accountant-turned-finance manager. Not bad roles for a couple of blokes in their late 20's.


My own career as a student is probably even more checkered than that ... but yes, I applaud your achievements. I was a dropout bum until my late 20s - that's when I got back into education and suddenly had a career (not the one I'm on now.)



Neither of us had any real entry credentials - my brother had to study some college-level maths before being allowed into the physics programme.

See - he did some sort of bridging course rather than just go straight into the degree ..


Thank fuck people like you don't get to horde higher education for themselves.

I resent the accusation - but I will forgive that because you really do know nothing about me or my thoughts. I'd blow up our current tertiary structure if I could (I'm the terrorist they let in the door with the bomb) - I'd open it up to other people who can't get there (many for economic reasons ) But I would not lower standards, and I resent the implication that is what we are doing. I would stop the gatekeeping that I see occurring ... and which I think you are refering to.


Oh, and more to the point of this thread, I agree entirely with the general sentiment. Our parents were fairly hands-off, which worked out well for us (though it looked a bit shaky in our late-teens). I will be letting my kids find their own way, but I will likely guide them towards trades because that's where the good, honest , well-paying work will be in the future.

That's a good start. When they are ready to move in a different direction we will be here ..

[Banditbandit]

Yeah upon re-reading, I think I got a bit worked up over nothing.

OK .. I wrote the previous post between meetings and in and around other discussions .. and did not see this until after I clicked "Submit reply". Thank you for that.

[bogan]

It's about options, make sure your kid gets a damn good education, so when they are mature enough to choose their own career, they still have a wide choice of options available to them. Not only that, but have a good understanding of what those options might entail.

[mashman]

make sure your kid gets a damn good education

With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?

[bogan]

What about what they want to do?

That is what it is about, read the whole post.

[mashman]

That is what it is about, read the whole post.

Ok, as you're obviously on your period...



Make sure your kids

Interference.

[Blackbird]

To make your way in the world and be a success, whether it requires tertiary education or not really boils down to personal motivation. Our 3 kids went to a low decile school in Tokoroa. Whilst the standard of teaching might not have been as good as in the bigger centres, they all had great attitudes to work and accepting responsibility for their own actions. All 3 of them went to university and have great careers. As you might expect, we're enormously proud of them, not because they're well-educated but because the effort they put in on their own behalf. We certainly weren't pushy parents but just gave them support when they needed it. The rest they did for themselves.

[neels]

With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?


With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?

I agree there is nothing wrong with kids choosing their own destiny, however there is nothing wrong with having a reasoned discussion about options that are available before they commit to something that will affect them in the future. After that, well it's up to them and they get to live with the results of their decision.


I would advise anyone leaving school now to go out and get a trade. You get paid (shit pay, but better than nothing) to study, you learn something you can pretty much always do, and when you are finished you earn decent coin, and have no debt, and if you are any good and motivated you can start your own business. If you are any good at that, hard working and a little bit lucky, you will buy and sell your University educated brother after about 20 years in each respective game. That is anecdotal, but a direct comparison with my brother and I.

Slightly OT maybe. I dont recall my parents ever being very interested in what we were doing. Which was good. I liked to read a lot and play about on pushbikes and stuff. And split firewood (no really). I doubt todays parents would let their tiny little 12 year old loose with an axe....

My parents were never that interested in what I was doing either, seem to have survived alright so far without ending up dead, a drug addict or in prison.

As for getting a trade, that's seldom a bad idea, although the thought of still being on the tools at 60+ when you're buggered doesn't appeal much.

[mashman]

I agree there is nothing wrong with kids choosing their own destiny, however there is nothing wrong with having a reasoned discussion about options that are available before they commit to something that will affect them in the future. After that, well it's up to them and they get to live with the results of their decision.


I was jus funnin massa... yeah I agree with you. The best we can do is support them and hope they don't fuck up. Although it'd be nice if society was structured in such a way that they can take a few years out after school to consider what they'd actually like to do... that and when they change their mind it's be nice if they just could....... ach, dreams are free :D

[Akzle]

survived alright so far without ending up dead, a drug addict or in prison.


what??!!
I did all of those things and...//


...o wait. I see your point....

[PrincessBandit]

Exactly. I think that parents are intuitively (let's steal that word) understanding that education system is continually being dumbed down .....

I certainly feel that in my chosen teaching subject (music) there is a significant trend downward from when I was a high school student in the 70s. The amount of stuff we had to learn, and be prepared for with School C etc. at the end of each year, was considerably more than I see many coping with at NCEA Level 1 (school c in old speak). In fact, I was just bitching about this with a couple of my colleagues the other day, so I'll just step down from the hobbyhorse and back away quietly...

[MisterD]

I do not believe that the tertiary sector is being "dumbed down" - yes we have to accept people onto SOME degree programmes (like BAs) who probably would not meet any academic requirement, but they get in because they are 20+ years old ... BUT we do not have to pass them .. and I've failed quite a few in my time ...

What has been the drive in Tertiary education over the last 30+ years? To get as many people through University as possible, regardless of the quality of the degree (yes, talk to anyone in Industry recruit the "product").

What has been the end result? A devaluation of the Bachelor degree and young people with a shit-load of debt.



And Science? A proper degree? A proper subject? Jeez - that demonstrates a massive misunderstanding of the nature of knowledge.

Ernst Mach said that to be a great scientist (and he was) required "intuition and a high level of conceptual skills". Einstein (and he was also a great scientist) said much the same thing ...

Do you think they will develop those skills counting fruit flies in test tubes? (Yes, I did start my university studies in Science)


I "missunderstand the nature of knowledge", and you diss a Science degree by giving an example of something that I did in 'O' Level biology?

I might, given that I have a BSc in Physics, be biased, but don't expect me to believe that a BCom in Marketing, a BA in Art history or a PhD in Political Science are the equivalent of a BSc or a BEng.



I got sucked into that whole "go to University and get a degree and get shit tons of money" bullshit.

I would advise anyone leaving school now to go out and get a trade.

Exactly what I was saying about the devaluation of the Degree. If I had my time again, I'd have been a sparky rather than do the Physics degree...

[HenryDorsetCase]

With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?

When I get a 3D printer the first thing I am going to make is a set of hard plastic "brass" knuckles.

because you know.... science

[HenryDorsetCase]

Exactly what I was saying about the devaluation of the Degree. If I had my time again, I'd have been a sparky rather than do the Physics degree...

One of my friends' husband started as an electrician, did City and Guilds then did a B Eng and then a M Eng. Currently does something very complicated at a large industrial concern. I have no clue.

[gjm]

Exactly what I was saying about the devaluation of the Degree. If I had my time again, I'd have been a sparky rather than do the Physics degree...

I'm a frustrated engineer. I love mechanics, mechanisms and making, fixing or modifying them. I blame my parents - they gave me the original Lego technics sets when I was (a lot) younger.

Schools... The difference between expectations and wanting to provide opportunities needs to borne in mind. My daughter is at a private school, costing an arm and a leg every year (good job I'm really a starfish) but there are reasons; when we came to evaluate schools we were unanimously told not to send her to the school we are/were in catchment for. This came from everyone we spoke to, from local parents, the local intermediate school, and other teachers. Trying to get her into another state school was fruitless... Maybe everyone else was thinking the same thing? The two closest alternatives (out of zone) were oversubscribed and both had a waiting list over 200 long.

So we took the financially difficult decision to pay. It's worked out well - Miss gjm is doing very well indeed. Bright lass. And yes - I am a proud dad. :cool:
I hope she'll go to University, but we'll not force her to. If she goes she'll not be writing papers on the history of American literature or regional French poetry from the 13th and 14th century. (I actually know someone who did that.)

[mashman]

When I get a 3D printer the first thing I am going to make is a set of hard plastic "brass" knuckles.

because you know.... science

Not allowed to green again... fortunately the coke didn't quite exit my nasal cavity.

[Blackbird]

One of my friends' husband started as an electrician, did City and Guilds then did a B Eng and then a M Eng. Currently does something very complicated at a large industrial concern. I have no clue.

Same route as me except I was an apprentice fitter/turner and went down the mechanical route.

[bogan]

What has been the end result? A devaluation of the Bachelor degree and young people with a shit-load of debt.

Year before I started my BEng they added (hons) to the end of it, as far as I'm aware no other changes were made :lol:


When I get a 3D printer the first thing I am going to make is a set of hard plastic "brass" knuckles.

because you know.... science

lol, plastic 3dp is for plebs mate

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[Banditbandit]

What has been the drive in Tertiary education over the last 30+ years? To get as many people through University as possible, regardless of the quality of the degree (yes, talk to anyone in Industry recruit the "product").

What has been the end result? A devaluation of the Bachelor degree and young people with a shit-load of debt.

No, the drive in tertiary has been to up-skill as many people as possible. The accusation that is "dumbing down" tertiary education has been an accusation since before your time and mine - so we both hold "dumbed down" degrees by the standards of the generation before us ..





I "missunderstand the nature of knowledge", and you diss a Science degree by giving an example of something that I did in 'O' Level biology?

Ha .. the example was something I did in Year one of a Science degree ... maybe you are right (but I doubt it - it was a little more complex than just counting drosophila (fuck - after 40 years I can even remember the name)


I might, given that I have a BSc in Physics, be biased, but don't expect me to believe that a BCom in Marketing, a BA in Art history or a PhD in Political Science are the equivalent of a BSc or a BEng.

I was not alluding to that argument. I was alluding to the lack of a foundation for "knowledge" which purports to be based on truth - that argument has long gone. So if there is no basis in "truth" what privileges science knowledge over other knowledges?

If you hold a degree in Physics then I would expect you to know who Ernst Mach was - and do you not see the significance of his comment that to be a great scientist requires "intuition and good conceptual skills" ??? and he was supported by Einstein ... If that is the case, then how is science, with a reliance on intuition, more privileged knowledge than any other ?





Exactly what I was saying about the devaluation of the Degree. If I had my time again, I'd have been a sparky rather than do the Physics degree...


Good for you - you have discovered that the value of a science degree is precisely that of any other degree - so you would have rather done something else ..

[Banditbandit]

You do all know that Aristotle complained about the "young people today" and about the education system ...

Your complaints are more than 2,000 years old ... it's just a generational thing as far as I can see ...

[mstriumph]

Unfortunately, parents transferring their own frustrated ambitions to their children is nothing new, they just have greater resources to do it on a much bigger scale now.

(I said something harsh here about children internalising that system - but i've deleted it .... just saying so you can see what a nice guy i am :rolleyes:)

[James Deuce]

The Arts and Sciences are supposed to complimentary not mutually exclusive.

I am pleased that someone in this thread knows somene who did Medieval Studies of some sort. I'm disgusted that the same person is too ignorant to even bother conceptualising its worth.

Not one "scientist" worth their salt actually believes the bullshit they spout about Arts programmes. It's the same shit we give Honda riders. But at least Honda riders still ride a bike, eh?

[Blackbird]

The Arts and Sciences are supposed to complimentary not mutually exclusive.

I am pleased that someone in this thread knows somene who did Medieval Studies of some sort. I'm disgusted that the same person is too ignorant to even bother conceptualising its worth.

Not one "scientist" worth their salt actually believes the bullshit they spout about Arts programmes. It's the same shit we give Honda riders. But at least Honda riders still ride a bike, eh?

A similar analogy exists with scientists who believe in a Supreme Being - seems wrong when science is evidence-based. Still, that's the nature of faith, innit? :whistle:

[MisterD]

If you hold a degree in Physics then I would expect you to know who Ernst Mach was - and do you not see the significance of his comment that to be a great scientist requires "intuition and good conceptual skills" ??? and he was supported by Einstein ... If that is the case, then how is science, with a reliance on intuition, more privileged knowledge than any other ?

Yeah, I know who Mach was and I think you're misunderstanding what he said. The great scientists whose names we all know, had the intuition to see a problem for what it was and be able to formulate an explanation that was testable, then the conceptual skills to do that testing.

What privileges scientific knowledge is precisely that intuition that keeps pushing the boundaries of what we know, wider and wider.



Good for you - you have discovered that the value of a science degree is precisely that of any other degree - so you would have rather done something else ..

I wouldn't be doing (doing stuff with fibre optics and lasers in the Comms industry) without that degree, and my horizons would always have been narrower without that degree. I just have the ability from where I stand now, to say "I'd rather be over there, and I wouldn't have needed a degree to do it."

Cutting back to the chase, Tertiary policy for the past 30+ years has been "If you're clever, you do a degree, therefore if we have more people doing degrees, we must be cleverer as a nation -yay us. If you're not clever, you do a trade."

The upshot is, degrees are worth bugger all, and you need a remortgage to pay for plumbing work. I'll be advising my kids to ignore that bullshit and make sure they do something that will take them in the direction they really want to go.

[mashman]

I'll be advising my kids to ignore that bullshit and make sure they do something that will take them in the direction they really want to go.

Excellent. The world needs more drag artists.

[MisterD]

Excellent. The world needs more drag artists.

Are you sure about that, or just feeling lonely in that profession?

[James Deuce]

A similar analogy exists with scientists who believe in a Supreme Being - seems wrong when science is evidence-based. Still, that's the nature of faith, innit? :whistle:

Unfortunately.

[Blackbird]

Unfortunately.

Show me the evidence! :niceone:

[Banditbandit]

and my horizons would always have been narrower without that degree. I just have the ability from where I stand now, to say "I'd rather be over there, and I wouldn't have needed a degree to do it."




And none of that learning is subject related - you could have learnt that in any degree - and that is education over training ...

(What Mach meant I will discuss later ...)

[HenryDorsetCase]

lol, plastic 3dp is for plebs mate



Wow, thats quite cool.

[mashman]

Are you sure about that, or just feeling lonely in that profession?

Damned sure... we're all so old and the knees take a hammering.

[HenryDorsetCase]

A similar analogy exists with scientists who believe in a Supreme Being - seems wrong when science is evidence-based. Still, that's the nature of faith, innit? :whistle:

Oh, its on.

Its on like Donkey Frikkin' Kong.


:jerry:

[bogan]

Wow, thats quite cool.

Robots generally are, and you won't find many robotiscists who were better off for not doing a degree.

Game, set, and match.

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On a more on topical note, if I have kids, they'll be given every opportunity to get the best education, and to direct where their own education leads; but there will be serious consequences if they don't put some bloody effort in along the way.

[Akzle]

A similar analogy exists with scientists who believe in a Supreme Being - seems wrong when science is evidence-based. Still, that's the nature of faith, innit? :whistle:

well, the fact that >80% of the population believes/knows/experiences a higher power....
Just because science cant measure it....

[mashman]

Robots generally are, and you won't find many robotiscists who were better off for not doing a degree.

Game, set, and match.

On a more on topical note, if I have kids, they'll be given every opportunity to get the best education, and to direct where their own education leads; but there will be serious consequences if they don't put some bloody effort in along the way.

Bet it was a bunch of kids that did the cgi for that.

[bogan]

Bet it was a bunch of kids that did the cgi for that.

Bet it was a bunch of graduates who designed, built, tested, and programmed the robotics. It might surprise you just how little of that was CGI too.

[mashman]

Bet it was a bunch of graduates who designed, built, tested, and programmed the robotics. It might surprise you just how little of that was CGI too.

No doubt... there's some smart fuckers doing some smart shit with robotics and with any luck it won't end up in military hands. It wouldn't surprise me if none of it was CGI but just smart editing... even still, smart stuff.

[Ocean1]

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

The fact that you mention university as a measure of success puts you alongside those "uber parents" the story is dissing doesn't it?

Aye. There's fuck all competitive about today's society, the first thing university teaches it's students.

"Uber parents are a natural product of an uber-competitive economic system."
Peter Lyons

Not only demonstrably incorrect but minus a couple of thousand chocky fish for the use of "uber" in maximum sanctimonious mode.

Fuckwit.

[Ocean1]

Same route as me except I was an apprentice fitter/turner and went down the mechanical route.

Then it'll come as no surprise to hear that most successful people I know did their trades/practical training before, (or concurrent with) academic accomplishment.

[Berries]

"Uber parents are a natural product of an uber-competitive economic system."
Peter Lyons.
Isn't he the guy that shearing programme was all about?

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[Kickaha]

I have no clue.
I've heard that about you

[awa355]

Aye. There's fuck all competitive about today's society, the first thing university teaches it's students.

"Uber parents are a natural product of an uber-competitive economic system."
Peter Lyons

Not only demonstrably incorrect but minus a couple of thousand chocky fish for the use of "uber" in maximum sanctimonious mode.

Fuckwit.

I read the article and I still dont know what an ' uber ' parent is. I guess thats the price for going to a small town school. I only learnt to read, write and do my sums.

[oldrider]

I Googled it ... still none the wiser! :confused:

[Blackbird]

Then it'll come as no surprise to hear that most successful people I know did their trades/practical training before, (or concurrent with) academic accomplishment.

I think sheer bloody determination to achieve whatever it is you want to do counts for an awful lot, irrespective of background. I may have worked 60 hour weeks for 30-odd years but at least I was able to retire early in relative comfort and do the things I really want to do before I'm to old and knackered to enjoy it :laugh::laugh: