Lane splitting crackdown in Wellington?

[cheshirecat]

Seems to be a bit of a crackdown at the mo. Don't know if it extends beyond the region.
Anyone here give the state of play. Zero tolerance regardless of the law or the law or law plus a bit of tolerance re status quo weeding out the extremes.

[Mike.Gayner]

How do people get snapped doing this? Seems obvious not to lane split in front of a cop.

[SMOKEU]

How do people get snapped doing this? Seems obvious not to lane split in front of a cop.

If there's a lot of traffic in a queue it can be hard to identify every vehicle from far enough away to not lane split in front of a cop.

[Akzle]

Lane splitting crackdown in wellington,
or splitting lines of crack, down in wellington?

I know which id ratheq//
BUNNIES!!!

[GavinB]

Really?

A convoy of three bikes and then myself a minute later cruised straight past a cop this morning heading along the motorway into Wellington near Petone Station. No issues.

Are people actually being pulled over and warned or ticketed?

Gavin

[SMOKEU]

Lane splitting crackdown in wellington,
or splitting lines of crack, down in wellington?

I know which id ratheq//
BUNNIES!!!

+1 to this.

[pzkpfw]

Ha.

I was in the car the other morning (actually, like most mornings). Traffic from the interchange to about half way to Aotea was chocka. Traffic was at a crawl. Stop-start.

When I got to the worst bit, saw a bike-cop on the shoulder pointing a radar gun thing up the flow of traffic.

First thing I thought was - who the hell is "speeding" in this traffic? I did see him turn and watch a bike that split past.

As soon as the traffic was past the cop it all opened up back into a proper flow. Do they not teach these guys queuing theory?

Stupid thing was - the most dangerous thing on the road that morning was the cop causing a pinch-point in the traffic flow.

[cheshirecat]

Ha.

I was in the car the other morning (actually, like most mornings). Traffic from the interchange to about half way to Aotea was chocka. Traffic was at a crawl. Stop-start.

When I got to the worst bit, saw a bike-cop on the shoulder pointing a radar gun thing up the flow of traffic.

First thing I thought was - who the hell is "speeding" in this traffic? I did see him turn and watch a bike that split past.

As soon as the traffic was past the cop it all opened up back into a proper flow. Do they not teach these guys queuing theory?

Stupid thing was - the most dangerous thing on the road that morning was the cop causing a pinch-point in the traffic flow.
Agreed. Was coming in once and there was a cop with a gun so the cars in front just braked from 110ish to 87ish, tailgated like sh..t, ie within two car lengths and lo and behold, surprise surprise, my wing mirrors were full of cars right up my tail light. if it was wet then .........

[Magnum Noel]

Seems to be a bit of a crackdown at the mo. Don't know if it extends beyond the region.
Anyone here give the state of play. Zero tolerance regardless of the law or the law or law plus a bit of tolerance re status quo weeding out the extremes.

If we new where " a shoe box and a particular motorway" was we might be able to comment.

[cheshirecat]

Shoe box too comfy so moving out. Seems to be N Gorge onwards coming in

[caspernz]

Nah, I call bogus on this. I even see cops making room in the lane to let the regulars on two wheels slide by nice and easy.

Different story if you try the hero routine and insist on lane splitting thru the narrow sections like down the Ngauranga, then you deserve to get a lecture at the roadside, if not an instant caning...

[Scuba_Steve]

There is at-least 1 welly PIG (possibly more) that has a stick up his arse about splitting (my guess is jealously as he drives a car) & will go out of his way to ticket

[MD]

Ha.

I was in the car the other morning (actually, like most mornings). Traffic from the interchange to about half way to Aotea was chocka. Traffic was at a crawl. Stop-start.

When I got to the worst bit, saw a bike-cop on the shoulder pointing a radar gun thing up the flow of traffic.

First thing I thought was - who the hell is "speeding" in this traffic? I did see him turn and watch a bike that split past.

As soon as the traffic was past the cop it all opened up back into a proper flow. Do they not teach these guys queuing theory?

Stupid thing was - the most dangerous thing on the road that morning was the cop causing a pinch-point in the traffic flow.

+1

Couldn't believe his ignorance of what his presence was doing to the traffic. At first I though another bad day of congestion, maybe an incident/breakdown ahead. But, no it was just that cop sitting in a stupid place and everyone decides they better slow. The second we all get past him the traffic flowed smooth and quick all the rest of the way.
What a good citizen he is. He must be proud making 10,000 people late for work just to stroke his ego. Wanker award material that guy.

And to those non believers there is a nasty cop ticketing bikes lane splitting in peak hour Wgtn on the motorway. I've been driving and riding in from the Northern suburbs for 28 years and in that time I've only come across one rider caught out splitting and heard of a few others. But that's over 28 years and only minor injuries, if any. Hardly the crime of the bloody century.

How dare us riders try to reduce congestion, pollution and world oil consumption. TPTB should be thanking us for our efforts.

[90s]

I just want to clarify what lanesplitting crackdown means - seeing as "lanesplitting" is not a legal term. You are allowed to overtake stationary traffic at any time on either side and also to overtake within your lane - the two areas that legitmise "lanesplitting" - so what are the cops ticketing people for?

Clearly there is some crazy riding going on that could be "lanesplitting", but most should be OK as long as not dagerous.

[pzkpfw]

I just want to clarify what lanesplitting crackdown means - seeing as "lanesplitting" is not a legal term. You are allowed to overtake stationary traffic at any time on either side and also to overtake within your lane - the two areas that legitmise "lanesplitting" - so what are the cops ticketing people for?

Clearly there is some crazy riding going on that could be "lanesplitting", but most should be OK as long as not dagerous.

I lane split, but there's no way in heck I can ever actually stay to the left of the lane dividing line the whole way. I spend as much time passing - moving - cars on the right of me (naughty) as I do passing cars on the left of me (not naughty).

So technically, whether or not any officer thinks I'm splitting "dangerously" or not, I could easily be given a ticket any day I ride to work.


I'd be very surprised if there are many that didn't apply to.

[90s]

I lane split, but there's no way in heck I can ever actually stay to the left of the lane dividing line the whole way. I spend as much time passing - moving - cars on the right of me (naughty) as I do passing cars on the left of me (not naughty).

So technically, whether or not any officer thinks I'm splitting "dangerously" or not, I could easily be given a ticket any day I ride to work.


I'd be very surprised if there are many that didn't apply to.

Sure, I split everyday as well, but I want to know specifically what people are actually being ticketed for in this clampdown. It would need to be somethign that is clear to establish - what you describe we all do is genarally hard to observe and provide evidence for.

[slofox]

Sure, I split everyday as well, but I want to know specifically what people are actually being ticketed for in this clampdown. It would need to be somethign that is clear to establish - what you describe we all do is genarally hard to observe and provide evidence for.

Maybe they are after dorks like one I saw this am who blasted up the left hand side of a line of traffic in the (rather narrow) cycle lane.

[pzkpfw]

... and provide evidence for.

Cop saw it (or thinks he or she saw it) = evidence.


(But yeah, if someone who actually got a recent ticket could spill ...)

[caseye]

My money is on the wanker riders doing 60,80 or more K's an hour splitting 10-15 kph moving traffic. I've split past coppers heaps of times even had occasion to say hello, never once been pinged for doing it, moving at reasonable speed compared to traffic, they don't mind that, but what is happening out there is that the rossi's of our ilk are screwing it up for the rest of us. We'd be as well to start giving them stick as the poor ol po po's doing their job as ordered.

[Welly-Ray]

It does seem like there is one particular officer interested in this specific manoeuvre in Wellington, and he is now on a 2-wheel beemer regardless it's wet or dry. His usual fishing ground is around the gorge in the morning. So watch out.

Just of curiosity, has anyone challenged lane-splitting against the authority? Succeed or not, worth it or not please can you share your experience?

[JimO]

im in Bejing at the moment everybody lane splits here, busses trucks bikes scooters its fucking insane

[GrayWolf]

It does seem like there is one particular officer interested in this specific manoeuvre in Wellington, and he is now on a 2-wheel beemer regardless it's wet or dry. His usual fishing ground is around the gorge in the morning. So watch out.

Just of curiosity, has anyone challenged lane-splitting against the authority? Succeed or not, worth it or not please can you share your experience?

As suggested, keep the speed down, relative to the surrounding vehicles. Police dont actually 'recommend' lane splitting, but if done keep to no more than 20km's higher, and dont lane split above 50kph...

[Ocean1]

im in Bejing at the moment everybody lane splits here, busses trucks bikes scooters its fucking insane

:laugh: There are protocols though, and the number one rule is: leave a gap, any gap at all and the nearest vehicle WILL fill it.

Accept that and things become much clearer and more predictable. And astonishingly enough it produces no more carnage than any western system.

[Akzle]

And astonishingly enough it produces no more carnage than any western system.

its only astonishing, to you, because youre so old, and white

[Ulsterkiwi]

It does seem like there is one particular officer interested in this specific manoeuvre in Wellington, and he is now on a 2-wheel beemer regardless it's wet or dry. His usual fishing ground is around the gorge in the morning. So watch out.

Just of curiosity, has anyone challenged lane-splitting against the authority? Succeed or not, worth it or not please can you share your experience?

have seen this particular epitome of humanity on a few mornings, always writing someone up. I tend to arrive in town before the build up begins. Have to say the vast majority of other drivers dont seem to mind filtering IF you give them time to see you, quite a few will even move aside. There will always be one or two pricks who will swing towards the paint and cut you off...whatever.......

I have heard it said that the cop in question is a bit of a Norman-no-mates, his colleagues think he is a prick as well. Maybe he is a KB member? Fits the profile! :killingme

[pzkpfw]

Saw a bike cop ticketing a rider, about half way around the South bound curve of SH1 - just past LV Martin. About 7:45 a.m.

Traffic was moving well, conditions were perfect, and I had several bikes split past. No drama from anyone.

I do see occasional downed bikes in that general area, but it doesn't seem like nearly enough for any kind of crack-down to occur.

[GrayWolf]

have seen this particular epitome of humanity on a few mornings, always writing someone up. I tend to arrive in town before the build up begins. Have to say the vast majority of other drivers dont seem to mind filtering IF you give them time to see you, quite a few will even move aside. There will always be one or two pricks who will swing towards the paint and cut you off...whatever.......

I have heard it said that the cop in question is a bit of a Norman-no-mates, his colleagues think he is a prick as well. Maybe he is a KB member? Fits the profile! :killingme

Wonder if he was the prat on foot ticketing bikes at the protest last month??

[BlackSheepLogic]

So how do you know their only crime was lane splitting or filtering? They may well have done something else to draw attention to themselves.

I've split lanes during times of congestions and had officers make room for me. Be courteous, keep the speed down.


have seen this particular epitome of humanity on a few mornings, always writing someone up. I tend to arrive in town before the build up begins. Have to say the vast majority of other drivers dont seem to mind filtering IF you give them time to see you, quite a few will even move aside. There will always be one or two pricks who will swing towards the paint and cut you off...whatever.......

I have heard it said that the cop in question is a bit of a Norman-no-mates, his colleagues think he is a prick as well. Maybe he is a KB member? Fits the profile! :killingme

[Ulsterkiwi]

So how do you know their only crime was lane splitting or filtering? They may well have done something else to draw attention to themselves.

I've split lanes during times of congestions and had officers make room for me. Be courteous, keep the speed down.

I dont but in forae other than this one there has been discussion of a particular cop, on a bike, who tends to pull people for filtering/splitting in the area where SH1 and SH2 merge. I have seen the same guy on a few occassions, all I know is he is always writing. THis is unusual in my experience because A: I recognise him as the same guy and B: he is always writing, never having a discussion. I have seen same cop writing up car drivers too, presumably they were not lane splitting.

I try to travel at times where I am unlikely to encounter congestion, but life being what it is its sometimes unavoidable. So I split. Like you I have split past cops, even had them wave at me as I pass. 99% of motorists seem happy for me to do this. In part because I believe I do it in a way which is courteous of other road users and partly because they are probably just decent folk who have other things to worry about than stopping me make progress. So I agree with you keep the speed under control and remember you are only one of many people using the road.

THe 1%? mehhhhh:sleep:

I tend to avoid splitting in area which has been mentioned because whoever this cop is he has a rep for pulling bikes which split. Perhaps that makes him effective at his job?

[Berries]

I do see occasional downed bikes in that general area, but it doesn't seem like nearly enough for any kind of crack-down to occur.
One is enough isn't it?

People who get twatted while splitting should not have been splitting. Throw in the whole legality of it and it is bound to attract enforcement.

[Voltaire]

I lane split, but there's no way in heck I can ever actually stay to the left of the lane dividing line the whole way. I spend as much time passing - moving - cars on the right of me (naughty) as I do passing cars on the left of me (not naughty).

So technically, whether or not any officer thinks I'm splitting "dangerously" or not, I could easily be given a ticket any day I ride to work.


I'd be very surprised if there are many that didn't apply to.

+1
I lanesplit from time to time and put my right indicator as a token gesture and end up mainly on the right of the line.
Pathetic really that they even bother worrying about a handful of bikes doing it when you see so many car and truck drivers on the phone.

[willytheekid]

303191

:corn:

[oneofsix]

+1
I lanesplit from time to time and put my right indicator as a token gesture and end up mainly on the right of the line.
Pathetic really that they even bother worrying about a handful of bikes doing it when you see so many car and truck drivers on the phone.

actually what this indicates is the pathetic failure of cage drivers to stay as far left as practical. If the cage was in the center of their lane then it woud be as easy to the left as the right and if they were to the left of their lane, to give following traffic a better view. splitting to the left of the line (right of the cage) would be easier than to the right. So perhaps mr popo is mis-targeting his efforts . :corn:

[Voltaire]

They are always saying that they want to bring NZ into line with other overseas countries.
Just been in Vietnam for a month riding about......:eek:
303192
Who needs a family car
303193
Saigon Roundabout

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/th_MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4 (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4)
Horns rule.

not sure if the vid will work.
They do have a road toll that is over 10 000 per year though.

[Ulsterkiwi]

They are always saying that they want to bring NZ into line with other overseas countries.
Just been in Vietnam for a month riding about......:eek:
303192
Who needs a family car
303193
Saigon Roundabout

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/th_MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4 (http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p235/rednzep/MVI_0221_zps6fa9d921.mp4)
Horns rule.

not sure if the vid will work.
They do have a road toll that is over 10 000 per year though.

Interesting that the little kid doesnt warrant a helmet, must have criteria to meet before that happens :crazy:

[Voltaire]

Helmets are compulsory, although the helmets on sale are not much more than a hard hat merely meeting the requirement " of wearing a helmet"
Young guys ( surprise surprise) seem to be the ones who don't bother the most, and their riding style is not exactly cautious.
There was a poster campaign showing a mother putting a helmet on a child, but the up take is slow.
Babies are just carried about on bike in backpacks or on the mothers lap.
Its a different world to here, you can however get free wifi just about anywhere there is a cafe or small town.

[rua]

Didn't see him today but this week I have seen him pulling over cars too.

Could it be that he isn't persecuting bikers but just pulling over motorists who he sees breaking the law?

I split all the time, not had a ticket yet but I pretty much know its not legal and when/if I get a ticket its probably fair.

NZ Police have never pinged me for something I have not deserved, maybe others have had different experiences.

[Scuba_Steve]

If this is the guy I'm thinking of he's a cock & should himself be charged with at minimum dangerous use of a motor vehicle, impeding the flow of traffic & use of a motor vehicle likely to cause annoyance. Cause he is fucking useless on his bike & dangerous to boot

[oneofsix]

If this is the guy I'm thinking of he's a cock & should himself be charged with at minimum dangerous use of a motor vehicle, impeding the flow of traffic & use of a motor vehicle likely to cause annoyance. Cause he is fucking useless on his bike & dangerous to boot

what?! you wouldn't be suggesting that he would be judging others by his own low standards, Because it is dangerous for him it must also be for others?


As to staying in step with other peoples laws;
http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/motorcyclists/lanefiltering/
jeez it would be hard for some to slow down to the 30k when splitting. :corn:

[BlackSheepLogic]

I dont but in forae other than this one there has been discussion of a particular cop, on a bike, who tends to pull people for filtering/splitting....

Muppets get tickets,
It’s just how life works.

When Muppets get tickets,
Muppets don’t shut the fuck up.

Muppets know it ‘ant right,
So Muppet tells Muppets,
‘Cause Muppets know best.

It ‘ant right to pay the fuck up,
’Cause it’s just how life works.

[Welly-Ray]

I have been given different opinions on the legality of lane-splitting. What's your interpretation?


Lane splitting and filtering can be legal, depending on the situation in which the manoeuvre is undertaken. As long as you are complying with the road rules regarding passing, it would be legal. If you were in violation of any of these rules, it would make it an illegal manoeuvre.

You can find these rules outlined here:
www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-riding/passing.html

The terms 'lane splitting' and 'filtering' are not currently used in the motorcycle road code.

[cheshirecat]

This effectively negates any passing of moving traffic in urban areas and lane splitting
" ..at least 100 metres of clear road ahead of you once you have finished passing"

[Welly-Ray]

The definition of lane-splitting on NZTA site:


Lane splitting - relates to moving through the traffic travelling in the same direction (that is in motion) by travelling between the lanes.

How could this be established with the 100 meter requirement?

[oneofsix]

This effectively negates any passing of moving traffic in urban areas and lane splitting
" ..at least 100 metres of clear road ahead of you once you have finished passing"

that would also negate the use of passing lanes and many other things, like ever passing a scooter or cyclist or turning traffic.

I think looking closer you will discover clear road refers to opposing traffic

[Stonecold]

Hi, Got stopped at the base of Ngauranga Gorge this morning by officer number LVBA75. Nice chap, all things considered.

I have never been stopped for lane-splitting before, but I have always taken the opportunity to ask when I got the chance.

Like the 3 other cops before him, he was is and always will be convinced that he is right. However, unlike the other three cops before him, he issued me a ticket. I now have 150 reasons why lane splitting is not a good idea (and they will all be leaving my account within the next 28 days. As per the notice.

His explanation is that it is simple.

If traffic is moving it is illegal to overtake a cage on the left side, unless it is turning right.
So being on the right of the cats eyes, and passing a cage that is on our right, when it is not turning right, is illegal.
If traffic is stationary, it is OK.

If we are on the left of the cats eyes, with a cage on our left, this is not AS illegal, but the thinking goes that we are overtaking, and so we should have 100m of clear road ahead of us and 1m clear gap between us and the cage we are overtaking.

Therefore unless the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is illegal.

Officer LVBA75 says this is the final word.

[TheDemonLord]

If we are on the left of the cats eyes, with a cage on our left, this is not AS illegal, but the thinking goes that we are overtaking, and so we should have 100m of clear road ahead of us and 1m clear gap between us and the cage we are overtaking.

Therefore unless the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is illegal.

Officer LVBA75 says this is the final word.

If my memory serves - the rules in the road code that allow you to overtake slow moving vehicles (Bicycles, Ag vehicles etc.) are the same rules that loosely interpreted allow for Motorcyclists to Split when the traffic is moving....

it might be worth a challenge in court.

[mossy1200]

Not that I lane split a lot unless the traffic is really crawling because im concerned about people changing lanes on me plus I don't commute so im never in a hurry on the motorways.
I think idd be using the traffic moved over a bit to let me through. Wonder how that would go down assuming it was slow moving traffic.
Not sure doing a hundred up the middle is going to impress the fuzz much. If it looks dangerous the ticket book will come out even if you think it wasn't.

Disclosure. My general opinion has no factual content and I don't want red rep for having an opinion that you don't like.

[MD]

Hi, Got stopped at the base of Ngauranga Gorge this morning by officer number LVBA75. Nice chap, all things considered.

I have never been stopped for lane-splitting before, but I have always taken the opportunity to ask when I got the chance.

Like the 3 other cops before him, he was is and always will be convinced that he is right. However, unlike the other three cops before him, he issued me a ticket. I now have 150 reasons why lane splitting is not a good idea (and they will all be leaving my account within the next 28 days. As per the notice.

His explanation is that it is simple.

If traffic is moving it is illegal to overtake a cage on the left side, unless it is turning right.
So being on the right of the cats eyes, and passing a cage that is on our right, when it is not turning right, is illegal.
If traffic is stationary, it is OK.

If we are on the left of the cats eyes, with a cage on our left, this is not AS illegal, but the thinking goes that we are overtaking, and so we should have 100m of clear road ahead of us and 1m clear gap between us and the cage we are overtaking.

Therefore unless the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is illegal.

Officer LVBA75 says this is the final word.

Thanks for sharing your costly new information. It all helps.
I commute almost everyday now and yes I lane split. So just what vehicle was said Officer LVBA75 driving/riding? Was he waiting on the curved overpass at the bottom of the Gorge? Was he a ginga? Heard he was. Nasty types those ginger tops. Rusty hair, nothing a good tap on the head would fix.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Hi, Got stopped at the base of Ngauranga Gorge this morning by officer number LVBA75. Nice chap, all things considered.

I have never been stopped for lane-splitting before, but I have always taken the opportunity to ask when I got the chance.

Like the 3 other cops before him, he was is and always will be convinced that he is right. However, unlike the other three cops before him, he issued me a ticket. I now have 150 reasons why lane splitting is not a good idea (and they will all be leaving my account within the next 28 days. As per the notice.

His explanation is that it is simple.

If traffic is moving it is illegal to overtake a cage on the left side, unless it is turning right.
So being on the right of the cats eyes, and passing a cage that is on our right, when it is not turning right, is illegal.
If traffic is stationary, it is OK.

If we are on the left of the cats eyes, with a cage on our left, this is not AS illegal, but the thinking goes that we are overtaking, and so we should have 100m of clear road ahead of us and 1m clear gap between us and the cage we are overtaking.

Therefore unless the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is illegal.

Officer LVBA75 says this is the final word.

Hi there, I am sorry to hear of your costly trip to work this morning. That sucks.

If this is what said officer has told you then it strikes me as being a complete crock of shit.

Did he actually cite you for lane-splitting or what is the actual offence you have been written up for?

It is illegal to pass a vehicle on the left except if it is turning right? Ok, fair enough, but this shows the maddeningly inconsistent way in which the law is interpreted and enforced. I and probably 90% of the motoring public should be ticketed every day for passing to the left of f***wits doing 80kph who are in the right hand land lane on two lane roads and who insist on sitting there despite the lines of traffic behind them and clear road ahead of them.

1of6 has already alluded to the 100m clear road ahead being a nonsense. That being the case noone should ever pass anyone on the motorway unless there is a gap of 100m to the vehicle in front. The way some tailgating toss pots drive on our roads a gap of 100mm can be difficult to find.

Where did the 1m clear gap come from? Even pushie riders get 1.5m and its not (to the best of my knowledge) a requirement rather something which is ADVISED.

Its easy to say take it to court. To actually properly test it you would need a very expensive lawyer and be prepared to take a bigger hit than already dispensed with the ticket. To me this is what the motorcycle groups who take a subscription fee should be doing. Getting said expensive lawyer and getting some legal precedent set so that these stupid inconsistencies stop happening. Instead they organise bikeois and protest, very useful:facepalm:

Officer LVBA75 does not actually have the final word, the courts do. The sucky thing is not that we do not have a system to let us challenge stupid enforcement decisions by people with no legal training but that the cost of doing so is beyond the reach of most of the population.

[Devil]

If traffic is moving it is illegal to overtake a cage on the left side, unless it is turning right.
So being on the right of the cats eyes, and passing a cage that is on our right, when it is not turning right, is illegal.


So you got done for overtaking on the left. Which is and always has been the against the law apart from the specific exceptions. You didn't get a ticket for lane splitting, because there is no such offence. Be smarter next time and pass on the right. You'll have to be being a dork, while passing on the right to earn yourself a ticket.

[Tazz]

Hi there, I am sorry to hear of your costly trip to work this morning. That sucks.

If this is what said officer has told you then it strikes me as being a complete crock of shit.

Did he actually cite you for lane-splitting or what is the actual offence you have been written up for?

It is illegal to pass a vehicle on the left except if it is turning right? Ok, fair enough, but this shows the maddeningly inconsistent way in which the law is interpreted and enforced. I and probably 90% of the motoring public should be ticketed every day for passing to the left of f***wits doing 80kph who are in the right hand land lane on two lane roads and who insist on sitting there despite the lines of traffic behind them and clear road ahead of them.

1of6 has already alluded to the 100m clear road ahead being a nonsense. That being the case noone should ever pass anyone on the motorway unless there is a gap of 100m to the vehicle in front. The way some tailgating toss pots drive on our roads a gap of 100mm can be difficult to find.

Where did the 1m clear gap come from? Even pushie riders get 1.5m and its not (to the best of my knowledge) a requirement rather something which is ADVISED.

Its easy to say take it to court. To actually properly test it you would need a very expensive lawyer and be prepared to take a bigger hit than already dispensed with the ticket. To me this is what the motorcycle groups who take a subscription fee should be doing. Getting said expensive lawyer and getting some legal precedent set so that these stupid inconsistencies stop happening. Instead they organise bikeois and protest, very useful:facepalm:

Officer LVBA75 does not actually have the final word, the courts do. The sucky thing is not that we do not have a system to let us challenge stupid enforcement decisions by people with no legal training but that the cost of doing so is beyond the reach of most of the population.

Left of the yellow cats eyes man. Yellows be tricky bastards that make it dangerous, unlike legal passing on the left of those safe white cats eyes.

[Welly-Ray]

Therefore unless the traffic is stationary, lane splitting is illegal.



According to NZTA, lane splitting actually means overtaking traffic that's "in motion".




CBTA Guide on NZTA website (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-licences/about-cbta.html)
Lane splitting - relates to moving through the traffic travelling in the same direction (that is in motion) by travelling between the lanes.

[NZIrish]

http://www.gizmag.com/motorcycle-lane-splitting-filtering-safety-research/34425/

[octanepwr]

You guys probably already saw the thread I made after I saw him get someone doing it slowly when the traffic was slow as, the day after I got done when the traffic was faster.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/170541-Crooked-biker-cop-in-Wellington-lane-splitting

[Zapf]

If we are on the left of the cats eyes, with a cage on our left, this is not AS illegal, but the thinking goes that we are overtaking, and so we should have 100m of clear road ahead of us and 1m clear gap between us and the cage we are overtaking.

How may cars keep to left of the lane? good luck...

And if Auckland was to get congestion tolls like London. Will it be legal to lane split too? Cause its legal to split in UK.

[awayatc]

Its easy to say take it to court. To actually properly test it you would need a very expensive lawyer and be prepared to take a bigger hit than already dispensed with the ticket. To me this is what the motorcycle groups who take a subscription fee should be doing. Getting said expensive lawyer and getting some legal precedent set so that these stupid inconsistencies stop happening. Instead they organise bikeois and protest, very useful:facepalm:

Officer LVBA75 does not actually have the final word, the courts do. The sucky thing is not that we do not have a system to let us challenge stupid enforcement decisions by people with no legal training but that the cost of doing so is beyond the reach of most of the population.

Who could indeed challenge this?
I would happily subscribe to a group that does this sort of thing......
anybody out there.....?

[Welly-Ray]

Can court hearing resolve this? We only need one ruling to clarify this.

[yevjenko]

Can court hearing resolve this? We only need one ruling to clarify this.
No you don't.

But you can set a precedent if its in front of a judge (a lot of traffic lists are in front of justices of the peace, who tend to be retired bank managers and old biddies).

And then there's always the appeal process. Added to the fact each case has to be judged on its merits and will have it's own set of circumstances, levels of proof etc.

(Firking autocorrect)

[DougieNZ]

No you don't.

But you can set a precedent if its in front of a judge (a lot of traffic lists are in front of justices of the peace, who tend to be retired bank managers and old biddies).

And then there's always the appeal process. Added to the fact each case has to be judged on its merits and will have it's own set of circumstances, levels of proof etc.

(Firking autocorrect)

Now we are starting to get somewhere...

we can either write another 9263 pages saying "splitting is illegal" - "no it's not", "the officer is wrong" - "no he's not", "I do it safely" - "no you don't", "the officer hates motorcyclists" - "no he doesn'tt" etc etc ec etc etc etc

Or we can all put in $20, hire a good lawyer so that the case be heard (and appealed if necessary) through the court system. Then we can actually have some legal precedent so that we ALL know where we stand on this issue.

I won't add to the arguments on whether this is legal or not. Personally I have no doubt that the officer has been told or decided to enforce this because on the idiotic behaviour of the small miniority I have seen spitting at 70-100km +. You reap what you sew.

[DougieNZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slMhgcwSqeM

[DougieNZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxUHXFHFeYU

[DougieNZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTXLkAHpsvA

[DougieNZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjQXlRvtWec

[yevjenko]

Great collection of idiots. Love the one with the scooter who pushed the other scooter into the car. What was the Harley rider thinking in the first vid...

[Welly-Ray]

Or we can all put in $20, hire a good lawyer so that the case be heard (and appealed if necessary) through the court system. Then we can actually have some legal precedent so that we ALL know where we stand on this issue.



Good idea. I am in.

I know of someone who has appealed his lane-splitting ticket twice to police infringement bureau and both got rejected. He is now undecided if he will request court-hearing. Any advice for this guy?

[DougieNZ]

Certainly the bureau is the first step - though decision will be up to the individual making it. Those decisions would indicate that the police believe they are on solid ground. The next step would be to take it to court. I would imagine that the case would be heard by a JP. It would also be wise to take a lawyer along at that stage If the decision goes against you there - there is an appeal process AFAIK. The court will set precedent (at a variety of levels). We might not agree, but at least we would all know the answer!!

Personally I don't like the chances of this activity being proven legal - but then I'm not a judge.

[DougieNZ]

The thing is if you want to appeal you would need the patience, time , lawyer(s) and $ to do so. Plenty of people pull the pin at police, JP , District Judge level for a variety of reasons or below that level complain on here... One thing I can guarantee is that complaining on here will NOT set legal precedent! :-)

[Welly-Ray]

Thanks for the advice, Dougie. Will pass it on.

[yevjenko]

Good idea. I am in.

I know of someone who has appealed his lane-splitting ticket twice to police infringement bureau and both got rejected. He is now undecided if he will request court-hearing. Any advice for this guy?
Is your mate in Wellington Ray?

[Welly-Ray]

Personally I don't like the chances of this activity being proven legal - but then I'm not a judge.

Whether it's legal or not, it should be made clear to road users (and the public) so people know what to follow (or choose to breach), instead of being in a discretionary area where we don't know where we stand upon.

[Welly-Ray]

Is your mate in Wellington Ray?

Yes. Any advice for his case would be appreciated. PM me if preferred.

[BlackSheepLogic]

Whether it's legal or not, it should be made clear to road users (and the public) so people know what to follow (or choose to breach), instead of being in a discretionary area where we don't know where we stand upon.

I think most of us know that if we get ticketed for it (passing on the left) in flowing traffic that the law's not on our side. Splitting done safely at low speeds the police don't generally bother us, they are good people with a tough job to do who cut us some slack.

Seems however in this thread their's one officer who's going to ticket anyone he catches splitting and the law's on his side. The partition, public discussion/education, lobbing for a law change are good steps forward. But taking this to court more than likely will get police more motivated (public pressure) to crack down on this if the media are bored that day or some turkey get's their 15 seconds of fame. Uneducated public discussion (media coverage) is never a good thing so don't invite it unless your dam sure your right. You can bet every granny will want to have there say.

[Welly-Ray]

This is where the annoyance arises.

While NZTA has confirmed lane-splitting can be legal and will officially include the term in the next edition of Rode Code, we still get tickets for it? Is that just me or it's not even sensible?

[Madness]

This is where the annoyance arises.

While NZTA has confirmed lane-splitting can be legal and will officially include the term in the next edition of Rode Code, we still get tickets for it? Is that just me or it's not even sensible?

So let's legislate the fuck out of it and impose a 30km/hr limit on it while we're at it.

[haydes55]

Still confused how a cop can catch a motorbike splitting in traffic?

[BlackSheepLogic]

As I understand it (I'm usually wrong however) if passing on the right within the lane it might be legal. However, I will pass right or left depending on my assessment of which offers the best safety.



This is where the annoyance arises.

While NZTA has confirmed lane-splitting can be legal and will officially include the term in the next edition of Rode Code, we still get tickets for it? Is that just me or it's not even sensible?

[yevjenko]

Still confused how a cop can catch a motorbike splitting in traffic?
Cos he's on a bike too

[mossy1200]

Cos he's on a bike too

Motorbike cop targeting motorbike riders is almost as bad as Cannibalism.

[haydes55]

Cos he's on a bike too


How can they split on those whale sized bikes?

If lane splitting was dangerous and illegal, why is it all of a sudden safe when a cop does it?

One person splitting is dangerous, so we need to add a second person to split and try catch the first guy, just to tell them its dangerous....

But seriously, when I split, some gaps are just big enough for my bike, going a decent pace, there's no way a wide BMW/Goldwing (whatever they use) will fit at the same speed. Sirens on won't make every car pull over either

[Taxythingy]

How can they split on those whale sized bikes?

Because they can ride down the hard shoulder, where present, to catch up. Perks of the job. And latte-sipping Bob might just make more room for the winky lights while he quietly drops his phone between his legs. Ooo... Vibrate....

On another note, WTF was that Suzuki rider thinking? :eek5: Maybe trying to get to the bike store for a new windscreen and mirror from his last f-up?

[Swoop]

Motorbike cop targeting motorbike riders is almost as bad as Cannibalism.

If Honda's are being ridden, is it incest?:scratch:

[yevjenko]

If lane splitting was dangerous and illegal, why is it all of a sudden safe when a cop does it?


:)

I spose it's the same when they break the speed limit to catch you speeding ;) allegedly...

[yevjenko]

On another note, WTF was that Suzuki rider thinking? :eek5: Maybe trying to get to the bike store for a new windscreen and mirror from his last f-up?

He was Russian. Nuff said

[rastuscat]

There's still no such thing as lane splitting or filtering in the legislation. One day there might be but not yet.

As pointed out it still exists in legislation as passing. Have a look at the Road User Rule.

Just sayin.

Donuts.

[mossy1200]

Variation.
Whats the go on passing within the lane on the rt in a double yellow line area when car has pulled left to let you pass?

[Scuba_Steve]

Variation.
Whats the go on passing within the lane on the rt in a double yellow line area when car has pulled left to let you pass?

fine as long as you don't cross the yellow

[yevjenko]

fine as long as you don't cross the yellow
... And you completed the manoeuvre safely

[rastuscat]

fine as long as you don't cross the yellow

Correct. Ten characters

[rastuscat]

... And you completed the manoeuvre safely

Even more correct.

[haydes55]

Even more correct.



Mr. Officer.... I read on the internet (very reliable facebook) that motorcyclists were 6x less likely to be involved in an accident in traffic if they lane split. Makes sense when you see how many nose to tails happen every day on motorways, imagine a bike between those cars. Would you ticket a motorbike because they are riding safer than riding legally? Would you go out of your way to ticket someone to encourage them to ride unsafely?

[rastuscat]

I read on KB that going 200 kmh past a school is safer than doing 40 kmh coz you get past in less time. Must be true, it's on KB.

I've written the odd ticket for illegal things which happen not to be unsafe. These are generally public-piss-off offences. Like, people who fail to indicate left turns at roundabouts when people are giving way to them unnecessarily. Public-piss-off offence, that. Cycling through red lights too. Often not unsafe, but it pisses motorists off.

I don't ticket mopeds in cycle lanes on 60 kmh arterials. It's safer for them to be in the cycle lane.

Just sayin.

Donuts.

[Ender EnZed]

I don't ticket mopeds in cycle lanes on 60 kmh arterials. It's safer for them to be in the cycle lane.


What if there's a traffic light?

[MD]

I've written the odd ticket for illegal things which happen not to be unsafe. These are generally public-piss-off offences. Like, people who fail to indicate left turns at roundabouts when people are giving way to them unnecessarily. Public-piss-off offence, that. Donuts.

Well done that Man. That's one of my pet hates, giving way to someone, who can see you are giving way, but they know you don't need to. they are just too lazy or too dumb to use the indicator switch. First offence, give them a ticket, second offence ram the unwanted indicator lever up their useless arse.

[yevjenko]

Well done that Man. That's one of my pet hates, giving way to someone, who can see you are giving way, but they know you don't need to. they are just too lazy or too dumb to use the indicator switch. First offence, give them a ticket, second offence ram the unwanted indicator lever up their useless arse.
If you could just add to that the bastards that don't keep left when NOT passing, I'd be mighty obliged

[rastuscat]

Yeah. Hearing ya. One of my guys wrote a cyclist up recently for holding cars up unnecessarily. I'm sure the Vorb forum ran rampant on that one.

You can't please everyone all the time.

[mossy1200]

Yeah. Hearing ya. One of my guys wrote a cyclist up recently for holding cars up unnecessarily. I'm sure the Vorb forum ran rampant on that one.

You can't please everyone all the time.

Tell him to come patrol Aro Valley, Welly for a few weeks and clean up this dirty town.
The worst ones are the ones with a reflector on a 1metre stick coming out the side of the bike. You know they are asssholes before you even get to them.

[caspernz]

Tell him to come patrol Aro Valley, Welly for a few weeks and clean up this dirty town.
The worst ones are the ones with a reflector on a 1metre stick coming out the side of the bike. You know they are asssholes before you even get to them.

Isn't that 1 metre reflector thingee asking for a little Ludowici as you pass?? :innocent::eek5:

If you slap it hard enough it'll make this lovely rattle-rattle noise as it's destroyed in the bikes' spokes :facepalm::bash:

[R650R]

I've written the odd ticket for illegal things which happen not to be unsafe. These are generally public-piss-off offences. Like, people who fail to indicate left turns at roundabouts when people are giving way to them unnecessarily

That's good to hear but I'm (and others too) more pissed off by the ones that indicate right when going straight ahead which causes the same result. But its worse as it takes longer for the good motorist to realise the offender is not turning. Even worse is when its done by my trucking colleagues as some ill conceived safety benefit that they think gives them the right to drift our of their lane on double lane roundabouts...
I think if you cracked down on these make it up as you go types, you might just have people start usi9ng them properly and then even maybe look at other peoples indicators.

Along the same lines I live by a corner with a "FREE LEFT TURN" sign, the line through the corner is even shielded by a hefty traffic island. But as it turns into a double lane road and then a busy roundabout approx 1 km ahead many motorists that are not confidant at changing lanes stop there and hold up traffic at the left turn til they can drive straight into the right lane.
There is much tooting and fist waving by other motorists yet no one has lost the plot yet. I've even seen a police patrol car obstructed by a motorist there in that way, yet he just drove off afterwards and did nothing.

[BlackSheepLogic]

I don't ticket mopeds in cycle lanes on 60 kmh arterials. It's safer for them to be in the cycle lane.

Can't you just detain them for a couple of hours with a copy of the motorcycle road code which the moped cagers don't think apply to them. I don't mind them in the cycle lane as long as they know they not supposed to be using the cycle lane.

[R650R]

For what its worth I generally don't give way to anyone who hasn't crossed the threshold line into the roundabout anyway. Very rarely in NZ would you be at a roundabout small enough that you would NEED to give way to someone on your right who has not moved across the line yet, so their failure to indicate left is a moot point to all except the most careful driver.

[haydes55]

Can't you just detain them for a couple of hours with a copy of the motorcycle road code which the moped cagers don't think apply to them. I don't mind them in the cycle lane as long as they know they not supposed to be using the cycle lane.


Off topic scooter rant...... But I saw a scooter this morning in the 80km/h zone (like 1km of it, so no worries, it doesn't hold up anyone for long). They indicated right, going around a left hand bend, with a road to the right. They checked it was safe to cross their lane (very good), then proceeded to ride on the wet center line around the bend til the road...... I clenched for them, they seemed oblivious.

[Swoop]

These are generally public-piss-off offences. Like... Often not unsafe, but it pisses motorists off.
Can we PLEASE have a campaign for those who can't keep left?
Seriously. Fucktards (of various brands) need sorting out.

My air-horns are wearing out.
12g solid slugs are being loaded...:ar15:



The worst ones are the ones with a reflector on a 1metre stick coming out the side of the bike. You know they are asssholes before you even get to them.
Seriously?

I have a set of bull-bars with that brand of retard's name on them...:eek:

[cheshirecat]

Is Ginger still collecting

[yevjenko]

Can we PLEASE have a campaign for those who can't keep left?
Seriously. Fucktards (of various brands) need sorting out.


This

Oh so this...

Drives me nuts

[R650R]

I just Watchede ChiPS on Jones channel. Its that Poncherello and Baker on their Kwakas that started it all! :)

Some pretty slick moves there before the days of CGI and other people telling you how to live your life :) Fav moment was the Kwaka doing big rooster trail across median strip rejoining traffic flow :)

[atom608]

Saw a bike cop ticketing a rider, about half way around the South bound curve of SH1 - just past LV Martin. About 7:45 a.m.

Traffic was moving well, conditions were perfect, and I had several bikes split past. No drama from anyone.

I do see occasional downed bikes in that general area, but it doesn't seem like nearly enough for any kind of crack-down to occur.

I know the exact part you are talking about and I see him on his bike there all the time, was going about 100 down the gorge one morning at around 8ish and he was there and got me on his radar for sure but i made the decision to turn off down the lv martin road and i saw him pointing his gun off the side of the curved bridge when i looked behind me, luckly he was about 20m up that curve so he wouldn't of been able to turn around. I got ticketed $400 in the temporary 70 zone on the over pass near the ferry terminal xmas day by that same cop that sits at the bottom of the gorge, he was a ginger just like the other guy said and EVERYONE goes at least 80 or 90 in that temp 70 zone because there is never any work being done on the roads during the day or any actual need to slow down. to see a cop ping people in a temp 70 zone which should really be AT LEAST 80 or 90 is fucking pathetic. speeding is speeding but still

[Tazz]

speeding is speeding but still

No it's not. It's an antiquated law enforcement method to show 'presence' in most cases.

How about ticketing the contractor that can disrupt the flow of an entire city by having incorrect and or unnecessary speed restrictions in place.

Doesn't seem to matter if they don't have any in place either for hazards on the road, yet we as drivers/riders are held responsible for going over some often unnecessary limit on highly visible and safe stretches of roads.

You can do 100kph down the Keneperu Road in the sounds yet it's 'dangerous' to do over 70 on a bloody multi lane highway with no active road works?


319148

[FJRider]

No it's not. It's an antiquated law enforcement method to show 'presence' in most cases.

How about ticketing the contractor that can disrupt the flow of an entire city by having incorrect and or unnecessary speed restrictions in place.

Doesn't seem to matter if they don't have any in place either for hazards on the road, yet we as drivers/riders are held responsible for going over some often unnecessary limit on highly visible and safe stretches of roads.

You can do 100kph down the Keneperu Road in the sounds yet it's 'dangerous' to do over 70 on a bloody multi lane highway with no active road works?



The choice is yours as to the choice of obeying the speed limits ... or not. You know the rules and penalties ... should you be caught.

Any such disruption is with the knowledge (and consent) of the Council for that area. What you believe is incorrect or unnecessary restrictions ... are (in most cases) within the guidelines of the work being done. Speed limits set in the interest of public safety. (including yours)

If the speed you choose to travel at ... makes it difficult to see all hazards on the road ahead of you ... slow down.

The 4WD track into Macetown from Arrowtown is 100 km/hr. It IS possible in places. In such cases ... you might not be ticketed for speeding ... but for dangerous driving. (bigger fines though) It can be your choice to ignore the speed limits ... and prove them all wrong. Just don't get caught ... or prove them right ...

[Tazz]

The choice is yours as to the choice of obeying the speed limits ... or not. You know the rules and penalties ... should you be caught.

Any such disruption is with the knowledge (and consent) of the Council for that area. What you believe is incorrect or unnecessary restrictions ... are (in most cases) within the guidelines of the work being done. Speed limits set in the interest of public safety. (including yours)

If the speed you choose to travel at ... makes it difficult to see all hazards on the road ahead of you ... slow down.

The 4WD track into Macetown from Arrowtown is 100 km/hr. It IS possible in places. In such cases ... you might not be ticketed for speeding ... but for dangerous driving. (bigger fines though) It can be your choice to ignore the speed limits ... and prove them all wrong. Just don't get caught ... or prove them right ...

The law and life is not as black and white as simpletons who spew the 'do the crime' line portray.

The system CAN BE WRONG. It's really as simple as that. Hurr durr.

I am aware of the consent. Are you aware a lot of speed limits in towns and cities across NZ were in breach of this and other processes they are legally bound to follow for years? No one got a ticket that can affect their career from that fiasco, other that those penalised because of it, illegally, for those years... I notice Blenhole must have been one as all the 30kph signs are gone. Ironically those built up areas are where the flawed system works the best. Shows how awesome the powers the be are aye XD

[FJRider]

The law and life is not as black and white as simpletons who spew the 'do the crime' line portray.

The system CAN BE WRONG. It's really as simple as that. Hurr durr.

I am aware of the consent. Are you aware a lot of speed limits in towns and cities across NZ were in breach of this and other processes they are legally bound to follow for years? No one got a ticket that can affect their career from that fiasco, other that those penalised because of it, illegally, for those years... I notice Blenhole must have been one as all the 30kph signs are gone. Ironically those built up areas are where the flawed system works the best. Shows how awesome the powers the be are aye XD

At the moment ... it's the only system we have. The "Law of life" is obey it ... or not. Personal choice there ... you know the rules ... etc.

If the system is wrong ... put yourself in a position to change it.

I've been around about 40 more years than you have. As such ... I'm probably aware of a lot more than you may realize.

[Akzle]

I've been around about 40 more years than you have. As such ... I'm probably aware of a lot more than you may realize.

now theres an (oxy) moron, if ever.

theres even people older and dumber than you. would you believe.

[swbarnett]

I've been around about 40 more years than you have. As such ... I'm probably aware of a lot more than you may realize.
First sign of a person who knows very little is one who claims to know a lot.

[nzspokes]

First sign of a person who knows very little is one who claims to know a lot.

Pot meet kettle......:laugh:

[Tazz]

At the moment ... it's the only system we have. The "Law of life" is obey it ... or not. Personal choice there ... you know the rules ... etc.

If the system is wrong ... put yourself in a position to change it.

I've been around about 40 more years than you have. As such ... I'm probably aware of a lot more than you may realize.

Mate there are 14 year olds that would have a better grasp on the world than you, or I for that matter.

[yevjenko]

If the system is wrong ... put yourself in a position to change it.


Now this is just not possible and you know it

[atom608]

No it's not. It's an antiquated law enforcement method to show 'presence' in most cases.

How about ticketing the contractor that can disrupt the flow of an entire city by having incorrect and or unnecessary speed restrictions in place.

Doesn't seem to matter if they don't have any in place either for hazards on the road, yet we as drivers/riders are held responsible for going over some often unnecessary limit on highly visible and safe stretches of roads.

You can do 100kph down the Keneperu Road in the sounds yet it's 'dangerous' to do over 70 on a bloody multi lane highway with no active road works?


319148

its honestly stupid, 8/10 times I go past that area there is never any road works there or gravel on the road or any lanes being dug up. its just the center of the highway between the road barriers been done up and the time they do end up doing work on it is around 9 at night or something when they might have a truck on the road with some materials and 70 at that time is fair enough but at 12 in the middle of the day clear as day with a full 3 lanes open with no active road works being done I don't see the need to go 70 and neither does 85% or more of the other cars since they are going AT LEAST 80 and then you get the extremely small % of cars that are actually going the 70 temporary speed

[yevjenko]

its honestly stupid, 8/10 times I go past that area there is never any road works there or gravel on the road or any lanes being dug up. its just the center of the highway between the road barriers been done up and the time they do end up doing work on it is around 9 at night or something when they might have a truck on the road with some materials and 70 at that time is fair enough but at 12 in the middle of the day clear as day with a full 3 lanes open with no active road works being done I don't see the need to go 70 and neither does 85% or more of the other cars since they are going AT LEAST 80 and then you get the extremely small % of cars that are actually going the 70 temporary speed
The reason nzta (not the council in this case) have put up the 70 is they claim the lanes are narrower and there is no hard shoulder.

I have an issue with the blanket speed limit like this as it lowers the likelihood of people slowing down when there is work going on (which is quite often when I go that way). Ironically enough the road works are to allow them to build a variable speed limit motorway

[swbarnett]

Pot meet kettle......:laugh:
When have I ever claimed to be greatly knowledgeable in so many words?

Demonstrating and claiming are two completely different things.

[Varkp]

nothing to do with safety, all to do with money.

when there is a bike accident, it the biker that gets hurt, when last did passengers in a car get wiped out by a biker. very few and far between. would probably be in the sub 1% of passenger injuries.

road policing have a predatory behavior, as its all about financial incentives.
more fines means more money, less accident means more money (acc, medical).

people like FJrider should just shut up, who are you, a cop, and if so, go solve some REAL crimes.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I suppose a system where each individual could choose what they thought was an appropriate speed for that road and the conditions at the time of their using that road would be lovely.
Unfortunately that system would only work if each and every person using that road (driver/rider/cyclist etc) A) had a brain and B) actually used their brain.
I have no reason to cast dispersions on the abilities of anyone who says the speed limit is not needed at any point in time and you are entitled to that opinion. The roading network is a shared resource however and surely it would work best if everyone followed the rules, not just the ones they agree with?
There is a 70kph limit on the Raumati straights at the minute, I think besides myself there are about 4 people who observe it. Why do I observe it? Because I am willing to accept that there might be something going on which I am not aware of, that means a 70kph limit is appropriate. Do I like it? Hell no.

I often think of the truism, some people are only alive because its illegal to kill them. Not liking a rule isn't always enough reason to justify breaking it.

BTW, I like the idea of contractors being held to account for lazy practices with using speed limits. Its on a slightly different scale but the guys doing the expressway work on Te Moana Road are brilliant. The put a 30kph limit on when something is actually happening and its appropriate, when nothing is happening on the road (other than plant crossing the road) its the usual 50kph limit and signposted as such. Why can't they all do that?

[Moi]

I suppose a system where each individual could choose what they thought was an appropriate speed for that road and the conditions at the time of their using that road would be lovely.
Unfortunately that system would only work if each and every person using that road (driver/rider/cyclist etc) A) had a brain and B) actually used their brain.
I have no reason to cast dispersions on the abilities of anyone who says the speed limit is not needed at any point in time and you are entitled to that opinion. The roading network is a shared resource however and surely it would work best if everyone followed the rules, not just the ones they agree with?
There is a 70kph limit on the Raumati straights at the minute, I think besides myself there are about 4 people who observe it. Why do I observe it? Because I am willing to accept that there might be something going on which I am not aware of, that means a 70kph limit is appropriate. Do I like it? Hell no.

I often think of the truism, some people are only alive because its illegal to kill them. Not liking a rule isn't always enough reason to justify breaking it.

BTW, I like the idea of contractors being held to account for lazy practices with using speed limits. Its on a slightly different scale but the guys doing the expressway work on Te Moana Road are brilliant. The put a 30kph limit on when something is actually happening and its appropriate, when nothing is happening on the road (other than plant crossing the road) its the usual 50kph limit and signposted as such. Why can't they all do that?

Well said. :niceone:

[Ulsterkiwi]

I was talking to someone today who explained the 70kph limit on Raumati Straights.

Currently work is happening on the Northbound carriageway. There is a 70kph limit because of that. Fair enough.
To allow the work they are doing, the wire barrier separating the two directions of traffic has had to be removed. Effectively nothing now separates North and Sound bound traffic.
Under the law you cannot have traffic moving in the opposite direction UNLESS it is separated by a physical barrier which would prevent traffic moving in one direction going across into oncoming traffic. So the contractors have no choice with this one.

When you look at what is happening the 70kph limit begins where the barrier has been taken down on the South end and ends where the work ends and both directions can travel at 100kph.

Goes to show you, we need to be better educated about the rules of the road we use on a daily basis!

[Delerium]

How does that work, plenty of highways in 100 zones with only paint betwen opposing lanes.

[eldog]

How does that work, plenty of highways in 100 zones with only paint betwen opposing lanes.

The Law only works in Raumati?:facepalm:

Maybe we should change all the non barrier divided motorways into one direction, each for 1/2 and hour and change direction for the other half.... sounds fair?

only applicable for North/South directions.

[Ulsterkiwi]

How does that work, plenty of highways in 100 zones with only paint betwen opposing lanes.

my wording was a bit suspect so fair comment.

cannot have traffic moving in opposite directions with different speed limits unless separated by a physical barrier.

on your standard road with no barrier the limit will be the same in both directions.

[swbarnett]

Not liking a rule isn't always enough reason to justify breaking it.
Go tell that to Rosa Parks.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Attempts at a history lesson apart I think it's more than a stretch to compare civil rights to the observation of a temporary speed limit on a road with works taking place.
When you cherry pick text from what someone says and try to twist it to look clever you get that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frodo]

There is a 70kph limit on the Raumati straights at the minute, I think besides myself there are about 4 people who observe it. Why do I observe it? Because I am willing to accept that there might be something going on which I am not aware of, that means a 70kph limit is appropriate. Do I like it? Hell no.


The problem that I have is that roading contractors have "cried wolf" too often and I no longer associate a warning sign with an actual hazard.
I normally ride with the assumption that there will be road workers and dogs and sheep on the side of the road, and that the surface will be messed up with road works or logging trucks, whether or not there are posted warnings.
All too often I come across "temporary" lowered speed signs that have no link to (a) actual road works and/or (b) hazards, but are actually due to lazy roading contractors.
They have lost my respect and I now select the speed that I consider is safe, also considering the risk of the likelihood of revenue collectors being present.

[eldog]

The problem that I have is that roading contractors have "cried wolf" too often and I no longer associate a warning sign with an actual hazard.
I normally ride with the assumption that there will be road workers and dogs and sheep on the side of the road, and that the surface will be messed up with road works or logging trucks, whether or not there are posted warnings.
All too often I come across "temporary" lowered speed signs that have no link to (a) actual road works and/or (b) hazards, but are actually due to lazy roading contractors.
They have lost my respect and I now select the speed that I consider is safe, also considering the risk of the likelihood of revenue collectors being present.

+1 for that reasoning, having seen so many 'repairs' fail recently I ride to what I can see

[Ulsterkiwi]

The problem that I have is that roading contractors have "cried wolf" too often and I no longer associate a warning sign with an actual hazard.
I normally ride with the assumption that there will be road workers and dogs and sheep on the side of the road, and that the surface will be messed up with road works or logging trucks, whether or not there are posted warnings.
All too often I come across "temporary" lowered speed signs that have no link to (a) actual road works and/or (b) hazards, but are actually due to lazy roading contractors.
They have lost my respect and I now select the speed that I consider is safe, also considering the risk of the likelihood of revenue collectors being present.

Absolutely, irrespective of what the signage says, we stand a much greater chance of getting home alive if we ride to the conditions. I am sure you have seen the signs saying "its not a target". In their own way the PTB are trying encapsulate the whole "ride to the conditions" thing with that phrase I would have thought?

It is also of course every individual's choice whether or not they observe the posted speed limit, temporary or otherwise. For me I can find my fun in ways other than explaining to the Constabulary why the posted limit is unfair/inappropriate/not aligned with my abilities as a rider or otherwise a crock of shit. Standing at the side of the road with the fella's disco lights going is not really the place to try and change policy.

Anyway this was a thread about lane splitting and a potential police crackdown in Wellington. If anyone wanted to split, Sunday between 2 and 3.30pm would have been a great time to do it, the entire Wellington Region Motorcycle police unit was at the Shiny Side Up motorcycle festival at Southwards, sorry I didnt give you better warning! :innocent:

[pzkpfw]

Last week a motorcycle cop split past. Followed by about 4 civilian bikes. That was amusing.


On the weekend there was an article in the Dom about how a helicopter had to be called for someone (Mother of Mayor) because they knew the ambulance would take too long to get back to Wellington.
I figure half the problem (the other being single lane per direction parts of SH1) is the wire rope barriers. Without them, the ambulance could "split" with the cars in each direction pulling a bit to their left.

[Ender EnZed]

I'm figure half the problem (the other being single lane per direction parts of SH1) is the wire rope barriers. Without them, the ambulance could "split" with the cars in each direction pulling a bit to their left.

Wasn't part of the story about them when they were being installed on Centennial Highway years ago that they could be lowered for emergency vehicles? I've never seen or heard of it actually happen though.

[yevjenko]

The problem that I have is that roading contractors have "cried wolf" too often and I no longer associate a warning sign with an actual hazard.
I normally ride with the assumption that there will be road workers and dogs and sheep on the side of the road, and that the surface will be messed up with road works or logging trucks, whether or not there are posted warnings.
All too often I come across "temporary" lowered speed signs that have no link to (a) actual road works and/or (b) hazards, but are actually due to lazy roading contractors.
They have lost my respect and I now select the speed that I consider is safe, also considering the risk of the likelihood of revenue collectors being present.
This. So much this on every count

[pzkpfw]

Wasn't part of the story about them when they were being installed on Centennial Highway years ago that they could be lowered for emergency vehicles? I've never seen or heard of it actually happen though.

Not sure. They seem a little "permanent" to allow that.

It's all a bit topsy turvy, as the barriers are being credited with a lower accident/death rate.

[yevjenko]

Yes they can be lowered, but not instantly. The centennial highway ones are being lowered on Sunday nights at the moment to allow traffic through during the resurfacing works

[swbarnett]

Attempts at a history lesson apart I think it's more than a stretch to compare civil rights to the observation of a temporary speed limit on a road with works taking place.
Yes, the degree is quite different. The principle is the same. It's all a matter of perspective. I can guarantee that if you asked many whites of the time they would view what Rosa Parks did in same vain as a road worker might view speeding through roadworks.

The only way that the law makers can be kept honest is when we all pull them up when things are blatantly wrong. No matter the severity of the wrong.

[yevjenko]

Define "pull them up" and define "them"

[swbarnett]

Define "pull them up" and define "them"
"pull them up" - Highlight the fact that the public at large do not agree with their definition of right and wrong.

"them" - The "law makers" per chance. As I stated in the post I assume you are referring to.

[yevjenko]

But the people who you would be pulling up aren't the law makers, rather they're the law enforcers. And the law enforcers really don't give a sh!t... Although to be honest, neither do the 'law makers' who ever they may be

[pritch]

Although to be honest, neither do the 'law makers' who ever they may be

That'd be the gubbermint who sit in Wellington shining their collective arse, vaguely nodding along to whatever inanity is currently before the house, while wondering how to best boost their expenses claims.

[swbarnett]

But the people who you would be pulling up aren't the law makers, rather they're the law enforcers. And the law enforcers really don't give a sh!t... Although to be honest, neither do the 'law makers' who ever they may be
Ah, but if everybody blindly obeys every tiny little instruction from the narcissistic bunch of cretins that makes these laws then nothing will change.

Same if only one disobeys. However, if the public en masse were to partake in civil disobedience of the "stupid law of the month" then those said cretins would likely have no choice but to sit up and take notice.

[Ulsterkiwi]

However, if the public en masse were to partake in civil disobedience of the "stupid law of the month" then those said cretins would likely have no choice but to sit up and take notice.


some (and I am not saying they are correct) would say that what you are talking about is a hallmark of instability in a country.

Look I have no problem debating, no problem with someone taking a stand based on their principles. I do think however part of our problem today is we have too many people who are perpetually outraged. Their constant cries of "disgrace!" when a kitten doesn't get enough likes on Facebook diminishes the impact made when something of significance is brought to the attention of the general populace.
"stupid law of the month" would rapidly turn into "oh its those idiots again, another beer?"


While aspirationally fine and in the true spirit of democracy "stupid law of the month" would be more akin to nagging wife syndrome, constant beating on about a series of woes and complaints means the spouse being nagged simply switches off and listens to nothing. In some countries its known as opposition politics and we all know how good Labour have been at getting things done in opposition.

I tend to think of it this way: lets imagine you were given the power to change just two traffic laws or policies around enforcement. Your requests will be met but after that no changes will take place, probably ever but certainly not in your generation. What would you choose? What follows is a very difficult process setting your priorities. So go back to the hen pecked husband, except now he isnt nagged or hen pecked, he does however hear a reasonable request and it stands out because its not part of the background din. Its more likely to be successfully completed.

Its just a theory, but then this is the internets and none of it is real anyway. :rolleyes:

[Akzle]

I tend to think of it this way: lets imagine you were given the power to change just two traffic laws or policies around enforcement. Your requests will be met but after that no changes will take place, probably ever but certainly not in your generation. What would you choose?

remove speed limits.

Replace registration/plates with the drivers phone number in foot high lettering

(this works for a) getting hot chicks numbers and b) giving dickheads an earfull)

[Frodo]

The problem that I have is that roading contractors have "cried wolf" too often and I no longer associate a warning sign with an actual hazard.
I normally ride with the assumption that there will be road workers and dogs and sheep on the side of the road, and that the surface will be messed up with road works or logging trucks, whether or not there are posted warnings.
All too often I come across "temporary" lowered speed signs that have no link to (a) actual road works and/or (b) hazards, but are actually due to lazy roading contractors.
They have lost my respect and I now select the speed that I consider is safe, also considering the risk of the likelihood of revenue collectors being present.

I rode into town past all of the huge screens saying how many minutes to the Wellington CBD. In the south bound lane at the top of the Gorge, contractors had started grinding away the old seal, presumably for resurfacing. Anyway the surface was rough, uneven and with loose gravel. No warnings, nothing on the big screens. Here was a case of where a warning sign and even a lowered speed limit would have been appropriate.
Shows that the presence or absence of lowered speed limits has no relationship with hazards.

As for the splitting crackdown, I passed two mufti cops and one marked car while splitting and neither reacted. Wasn't doing anything silly, though.

[swbarnett]

some (and I am not saying they are correct) would say that what you are talking about is a hallmark of instability in a country.
Interesting point. Yes, it's a form of instability brought about by a set of law makers that have no clue as to the practical outcome of these possibly "well meaning" laws.


Look I have no problem debating, no problem with someone taking a stand based on their principles. I do think however part of our problem today is we have too many people who are perpetually outraged. Their constant cries of "disgrace!" when a kitten doesn't get enough likes on Facebook diminishes the impact made when something of significance is brought to the attention of the general populace.
Absolutely agree. We have to choose what's important to us individually and not just pick a law at random. To me that's any law that impinges on the individual's right to self determination where there is no direct negatively affect to anyone else.


"stupid law of the month" would rapidly turn into "oh its those idiots again, another beer?"
Yes, and no. If "those idiots" amounted to a significant proportion of the population I think TPTB might just start worrying about votes.


While aspirationally fine and in the true spirit of democracy "stupid law of the month" would be more akin to nagging wife syndrome, constant beating on about a series of woes and complaints means the spouse being nagged simply switches off and listens to nothing. In some countries its known as opposition politics and we all know how good Labour have been at getting things done in opposition.
Indeed. This is yet another sign of a "government" that is completely out of touch with the people it's supposed to be serving. In the same way as a "nagging wife" is not a party to a marriage. Rather an individual always concerned about getting things their own way with no thought to how they're affecting the other party in the relationship.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I rode into town past all of the huge screens saying how many minutes to the Wellington CBD. In the south bound lane at the top of the Gorge, contractors had started grinding away the old seal, presumably for resurfacing. Anyway the surface was rough, uneven and with loose gravel. No warnings, nothing on the big screens. Here was a case of where a warning sign and even a lowered speed limit would have been appropriate.


had the same experience and agree completely.

your point on splitting is well made, behave like a dick, expect to be pulled over by one.

[pzkpfw]

Best wishes to the rider and all that. Injury sounds nasty. This post is not for intended to be a finger-point. And I know I'm just speculating that he or she was lane splitting, but ...

I wonder if there will be a "Lane splitting crackdown"?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/77369477/serious-crash-blocking-traffic-on-ngauranga-gorge-sh2



(I hate logging trucks etc. on the motorway in "rush hour". Can't be helped, I suppose, but having the big trucks mixed with the commuters, whether car or bike, is always going to cause some issues. (Not "blaming" the truckie of course, just commenting on the mix of vehicles sizes and such.))

[Ulsterkiwi]

the gorge is a nightmare at times. If you want to see the mindless hustle for an advantage of less than 10metres, this is the place to go. Idiots sitting on the far offside lane deciding to leave the motorway 200metres before their chosen exit and dashing across, idiots joining from one of the merge lanes determined to get right across to the far offside lane in one continuous movement, most of them unaware of that little device called an indicator never mind the shiny reflective things that let them see behind them. Wankers.
Trucks have their work cut out maintaining momentum but it can make them ruthless. Riders can do silly things, pushing their position while forgetting they are the most vulnerable on the road.
Still, we don't know what happened but so long as the speed camera is there everyone will be safe......wait.......

[Drew]

I drive the gorge everyday also. "Loose gravel" is a wild overstatement, there was a tiny bit of grit on the road.

[MIXONE]

(I hate logging trucks etc. on the motorway in "rush hour". Can't be helped, I suppose, but having the big trucks mixed with the commuters, whether car or bike, is always going to cause some issues. (Not "blaming" the truckie of course, just commenting on the mix of vehicles sizes and such.))

My wife was cleaned out by a logging truck on the motorway last year.All her guardian angels must have been working overtime because the truck turned into her ,clipped tha arse end of the car which spun it sideways.The truck then scooped up the car and carried it sideways down the road until it came to a shuddering halt.My wife was helpless during all this looking at a huge chrome grill just cm.s from her face.Even the cops couldn't work out why the car wasn't just squashed beneath the truck!Scary shit I tell you.

[pzkpfw]

... Trucks have their work cut out maintaining momentum ...

Yep. And to be fair to the truckies, it always makes me snarl when I see a truck maintaining good following distance down the gorge, giving themselves plenty of room to stop for the unexpected, and watching cars keep shooting into that gap for an easy lane change.

(
Having said that, the only person who ever tried to deliberately squash me while lanesplitting, was a truckie.
)

[Hads]

Having said that, the only person who ever tried to deliberately squash me while lanesplitting, was a truckie.
)

I'm an equal opportunity attempted assault/murder victim. I have had a truckie and a car do this at different times.

[jonnyk5614]

Yeah I got one hell of a shock going up the gorge the other week - no warning. Nothing....

When I went up there was gravel on the road, it had been ground off but the lane markings were still on the old surface so you were climbing a couple of cm to change lanes.

Not nice....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drew]

Yeah I got one hell of a shock going up the gorge the other week - no warning. Nothing....

When I went up there was gravel on the road, it had been ground off but the lane markings were still on the old surface so you were climbing a couple of cm to change lanes.

Not nice....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This attitude right here, is the root cause of a vast number of piss poor drivers/riders.

Rather than needing a warning for every little thing, open your fucking eyes. It was blatantly obvious that the road markings hadn't been cut down with the rest of the surface, bit of awareness and you could have avoided your wee scare and never thought of it again.

[Banditbandit]

I drive the gorge everyday also. "Loose gravel" is a wild overstatement, there was a tiny bit of grit on the road.

It's not gravel - it's the crushed remains of the last motorcycle a truck ran over ..

[Drew]

It's not gravel - it's the crushed remains of the last motorcycle a truck ran over ..

There was a Multistrada that looked to have been taken out on the gorge just this morning.

[MD]

There was a Multistrada that looked to have been taken out on the gorge just this morning.
Yeah he made a lot of people late for work. Hope the rider is Ok and hope he wasn't splitting in a silly manner- that's all the ammunition they will need to bring back the Ginga ninja bike hater cop.

[Drew]

Yeah he made a lot of people late for work. Hope the rider is Ok and hope he wasn't splitting in a silly manner- that's all the ammunition they will need to bring back the Ginga ninja bike hater cop.

Ducati rider mate. Just starting the horible pile is a mistake.

[Stonecold]

Still confused how a cop can catch a motorbike splitting in traffic?

He can also be on a bike?

[haydes55]

He can also be on a bike?

So he would have to break the law and lane split? Isn't that too dangerous to do, hence why we need to be punished for it? So why is it all of a sudden safe when a cop does it?

[yevjenko]

So he would have to break the law and lane split? Isn't that too dangerous to do, hence why we need to be punished for it? So why is it all of a sudden safe when a cop does it?
allegedly because they have been trained for it. Just like they have been trained in high speed driving to catch speeders

[Hubris]

allegedly because they have been trained for it. Just like they have been trained in high speed driving to catch speeders

In theory if it were too dangerous the officer wouldn't do it and would just radio ahead - in practice, they are allowed to break the law in order to catch others breaking the law (within limits) as it's seen as a greater good thing.

[5ive]

They should start breaking in and doing burglaries to deter the thieves that they currently don't bother chasing as well then. Nothing to steal, no crime to commit.

Some good old 'Broken windows Policing'.

[rastuscat]

So he would have to break the law and lane split? Isn't that too dangerous to do, hence why we need to be punished for it? So why is it all of a sudden safe when a cop does it?

There are a number of things that cops are exempted from, provided it is in the execution of heir duty.

It'd be kind of weird if cops couldn't exceed 50 kmh to catch someone doing 63.

Just sayin.

[awayatc]

Endangering other road users lives in order to chase down somebody "committing " minor traffic violations needs to be re examined....

some very dubious u turns come to mind,

Not only the fatal ones that made the headlines.


just so you know........

[yevjenko]

No one said lane splitting endangers other road users lives

[haydes55]

No one said lane splitting endangers other road users lives

Exactly.... so why is it punished?

[WristTwister]

There are some basic rules around when it's safe to lane split, I've seen some guys weave between flowing traffic at high speed and apparently that's a no-no, but also dangerous. Wellington streets are so narrow and cyclists are getting their own space now, so it's getting more difficult to lane split without the risk of hitting a cyclist or getting squished between cars in narrow lanes.

[BuzzardNZ]

There are some basic rules around when it's safe to lane split, I've seen some guys weave between flowing traffic at high speed and apparently that's a no-no, but also dangerous. Wellington streets are so narrow and cyclists are getting their own space now, so it's getting more difficult to lane split without the risk of hitting a cyclist or getting squished between cars in narrow lanes.

rules? I just blast right thru em, narrow lanes be damned:devil2:

[WristTwister]

rules? I just blast right thru em, narrow lanes be damned:devil2:

That's all good, do what you're comfortable with. I don't like the narrow lanes because cagers never make enough room for bikes.

[BuzzardNZ]

That's all good, do what you're comfortable with. I don't like the narrow lanes because cagers never make enough room for bikes.
loud pipes let them know ur there, they part like the red sea :eek:

320647

[WristTwister]

loud pipes let them know ur there, they part like the red sea :eek:

320647

HAHA coming through!:scooter:

[RGVforme]

There are some basic rules around when it's safe to lane split, I've seen some guys weave between flowing traffic at high speed and apparently that's a no-no, but also dangerous. Wellington streets are so narrow and cyclists are getting their own space now, so it's getting more difficult to lane split without the risk of hitting a cyclist or getting squished between cars in narrow lanes.

Seen heaps of lane splitting vids where guys have been taken out by other lane splitters weaving and sudden stop rear ends when the gap the two riders were going for suddenly closed.:facepalm:.

I can understand doing it but the cost of getting it wrong just does not seem worth the time saving and feeling.

[WristTwister]

Seen heaps of lane splitting vids where guys have been taken out by other lane splitters weaving and sudden stop rear ends when the gap the two riders were going for suddenly closed.:facepalm:.

I can understand doing it but the cost of getting it wrong just does not seem worth the time saving and feeling.

The main reason I do it is because I heard someplace that being rear-ended is one of the more common motorcycle accidents. The idea being that if you're in the middle of two lanes, no one can rear end you.

[Berries]

You might as well get a car if you are going to sit in slow moving traffic. What exactly is the point of a motorbike?

[BuzzardNZ]

What exactly is the point of a motorbike?
to not give a toss about potential accidents and enjoy the ride?

[yevjenko]

Exactly.... so why is it punished?
for the same reason not wearing your seat belt is punished

[swbarnett]

for the same reason not wearing your seat belt is punished
Yet another victimless "crime" that should never have been outlawed.

[yevjenko]

Yet another victimless "crime" that should never have been outlawed.
It's not been outlawed because it's a victimless crime, it's been outlawed to reduce the death rate (& potentially to reduce costs to health services etc?).

All about the stats

[swbarnett]

It's not been outlawed because it's a victimless crime, it's been outlawed to reduce the death rate (& potentially to reduce costs to health services etc?).

All about the stats
Stats be damned. The only person I'm endangering by not wearing a seat belt is me. NOONE has the right to save me from myself.


And the same goes for helmets and any other legally enforced PPE.

[fxxk]

Stats be damned. The only person I'm endangering by not wearing a seat belt is me. NOONE has the right to save me from myself.


And the same goes for helmets and any other legally enforced PPE.


What about the time wasted having to call out emergency services or the time wasted when the road would have to be closed because a potentially minor accident becomes a major due to someone not wearing a seat belt? food for thought, always a bigger picture

[rambaldi]

Seen heaps of lane splitting vids where guys have been taken out by other lane splitters weaving and sudden stop rear ends when the gap the two riders were going for suddenly closed.:facepalm:.

I can understand doing it but the cost of getting it wrong just does not seem worth the time saving and feeling.

That is why I always pull over and give the rider behind me room to move on. Also because I am a pussy and don't want to hold them up :p

[Swoop]

for the same reason not wearing your seat belt is punished

Fashion?:scratch:

[swbarnett]

What about the time wasted having to call out emergency services or the time wasted when the road would have to be closed because a potentially minor accident becomes a major due to someone not wearing a seat belt? food for thought, always a bigger picture
Go down that road and you have to consider motorcycle riding (or any other "risky" behavior) in the same light and ban that as well.

[nzspokes]

Stats be damned. The only person I'm endangering by not wearing a seat belt is me. NOONE has the right to save me from myself.


And the same goes for helmets and any other legally enforced PPE.

Stuck in the dark ages much? :brick:

Well from the beginning of next month that attitude could cost you your house.

[awayatc]

House?

please explain......:eek5:

[Drew]

Stats be damned. The only person I'm endangering by not wearing a seat belt is me. NOONE has the right to save me from myself.


And the same goes for helmets and any other legally enforced PPE.You still have the right to not wear a seat belt. You just have to accept the risk of a fine.


Go down that road and you have to consider motorcycle riding (or any other "risky" behavior) in the same light and ban that as well.
Levels of acceptable risk, versus public acceptance. There is no way to make everyone completely safe.

[nzspokes]

House?

please explain......:eek5:

New H&S laws, epic fines for reckless disregard. Like refusing to wear PPE.

[nzspokes]

You still have the right to not wear a seat belt. You just have to accept the risk of a fine.


Levels of acceptable risk, versus public acceptance. There is no way to make everyone completely safe.

Bit more of a risk than a fine. Many years ago I helped remove a guys head from a gear stick who thought it was a good idea not to wear a seatbelt.

[swbarnett]

Stuck in the dark ages much? :brick:
No. I just believe in education, not legislation.

[swbarnett]

There is no way to make everyone completely safe.
Exactly. Therefore, my body, my risk, my decision. By all means feel free to try and make that decision an educated one.

I have absolutely no problem with prescribed guidelines re PPE. Just don't believe you have the right to decide what level of risk is right for me.

[swbarnett]

Bit more of a risk than a fine. Many years ago I helped remove a guys head from a gear stick who thought it was a good idea not to wear a seatbelt.
Which is why I choose to wear PPE. My choice. Not that of some beaurocrat that doesn't know me from a bar of soap.

[nzspokes]

Exactly. Therefore, my body, my risk, my decision. By all means feel free to try and make that decision an educated one.

I have absolutely no problem with prescribed guidelines re PPE. Just don't believe you have the right to decide what level of risk is right for me.

Wrong.

Taxpayer has to pay for your medical bills.

[Maha]

Wellington traffic is just as hideous as any big city, one and a quater hours to get in the Lower Hutt was reported last week while we down there working.

Yesterday it took us 2 hours to get to Okaki from the CBD, with 11khp at time, with one complete stop and wait just north of Paraparaumu. Years of ongoing road works wont help with it getting any better, I think that yesterday though, it was volume. I had no idea what the complete stop was about, wasn't a crash nor road works.

[Ocean1]

Wrong.

Taxpayer has to pay for your medical bills.

There's a name for arbitrarily imposed "agreements" like that.

They're called protection rackets.

[swbarnett]

Wrong.

Taxpayer has to pay for your medical bills.
You'd better stop riding then (or anything else even slightly risky that gives life meaning).

[nzspokes]

You'd better stop riding then (or anything else even slightly risky that gives life meaning).

You crash a lot more than I do.

[Maha]

You crash a lot more than I do.

You should post your tally so far (your fault or not) it would beat Stephens.

[nzspokes]

You should post your tally so far (your fault or not) it would beat Stephens.

One.

10char.

[Swoop]

House?

please explain......:eek5:
It's an Auckland "thing". The rest of the Banana Republic fails to understand this.

Wellington traffic is just as hideous as any big city...
Completely untrue. First: Wellytown's weather is unlike anywhere else. Secondly, their population isn't equal. Thirdly: Their destination is "Wellytown".
Fourthly: The "public servants" reside there.

:eek5:

[Maha]

Completely untrue. First: Wellytown's weather is unlike anywhere else. Secondly, their population isn't equal. Thirdly: Their destination is "Wellytown".
Fourthly: The "public servants" reside there.

:eek5:

First: Wellytown's weather is unlike anywhere else....True
Secondly, their population isn't equal....True
Thirdly: Their destination is "Wellytown"....Debatable
Fourthly: The "public servants" reside there....Not True.

=50% true.

[Swoop]

=50% true.
This is KB.
= 100% true.


Any opinion is "Da Truth!". Just ask SuckMyCockMan.

[MD]

Wellington traffic is just as hideous as any big city, one and a quater hours to get in the Lower Hutt was reported last week while we down there working.

Yesterday it took us 2 hours to get to Okaki from the CBD, with 11khp at time, with one complete stop and wait just north of Paraparaumu. Years of ongoing road works wont help with it getting any better, I think that yesterday though, it was volume. I had no idea what the complete stop was about, wasn't a crash nor road works.

Welcome to my world. I commute Paraparaumu to the CB bloody D every day. Becoming an absolute pain in the arse. Roads too tight in many places to split on the bike and trucks seem to take exception lately to us using the shoulder and splitting. Like we are going to delay their journey ..how?
The Missus works in Tawa and getting home the other night took her 1hr50m by car - to travel about 30km. No 'incident' just traffic. Bring on the M2PP Expressway and Transmission Gully.

And Jaffas wonder why the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about their 'traffic woes'

[Maha]

This is KB.
= 100% true.

Any opinion is "Da Truth!". Just ask SuckMyCockMan.

One of the Mods at the time he was around, said that he would moan all the time to them about what was said about him online. All the while he would be laughing it off but secretly he hated it.


Welcome to my world. I commute Paraparaumu to the CB bloody D every day. Becoming an absolute pain in the arse. Roads too tight in many places to split on the bike and trucks seem to take exception lately to us using the shoulder and splitting. Like we are going to delay their journey ..how?
The Missus works in Tawa and getting home the other night took her 1hr50m by car - to travel about 30km. No 'incident' just traffic. Bring on the M2PP Expressway and Transmission Gully.

And Jaffas wonder why the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about their 'traffic woes'

Both city's have a share of traffic problems, but at least Wellington is doing something about it. I don't envy anyone who has to deal with that everyday.

[roogazza]

Welcome to my world. I commute Paraparaumu to the CB bloody D every day. Becoming an absolute pain in the arse. Roads too tight in many places to split on the bike and trucks seem to take exception lately to us using the shoulder and splitting. Like we are going to delay their journey ..how?
The Missus works in Tawa and getting home the other night took her 1hr50m by car - to travel about 30km. No 'incident' just traffic. Bring on the M2PP Expressway and Transmission Gully.

And Jaffas wonder why the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about their 'traffic woes'

Hey MD, give up this silly working for a living and move further up.:laugh:
We haven't looked back,stay well away from Wgton and if shopping has to be done go to PalmyNth.
Going into Levin for basic shopping and cheap petrol,only two sets of Traffic lights.:msn-wink:

I had to get my car into Thorndon last Sat for a WOF and Service,a fucking nightmare.Had to double back from that cemetary at Plimmerton and do the Piecock (which was packed both ways at fucking 60 kph).
All cos modern Police can't clear a crash scene and keep traffic moving.(see, they miss my training :shifty::Police:). Traffic clears north of Otaki.
ps Hows Steve's Doocati coming along after his oops ????

[nzspokes]

Welcome to my world. I commute Paraparaumu to the CB bloody D every day. Becoming an absolute pain in the arse. Roads too tight in many places to split on the bike and trucks seem to take exception lately to us using the shoulder and splitting. Like we are going to delay their journey ..how?
The Missus works in Tawa and getting home the other night took her 1hr50m by car - to travel about 30km. No 'incident' just traffic. Bring on the M2PP Expressway and Transmission Gully.

And Jaffas wonder why the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about their 'traffic woes'

Traffic woes are what you make em. Might pay to buy her an e-bike.

[Drew]

Wellington traffic is just as hideous as any big city, one and a quater hours to get in the Lower Hutt was reported last week while we down there working.

Yesterday it took us 2 hours to get to Okaki from the CBD, with 11khp at time, with one complete stop and wait just north of Paraparaumu. Years of ongoing road works wont help with it getting any better, I think that yesterday though, it was volume. I had no idea what the complete stop was about, wasn't a crash nor road works.
Traffic has gotten a lot worse this year, than I've ever known it. There wasn't a stead increase, people were off the roads for Christmas and came back after it to massively higher levels of cars on the road.

It's fucken frustrating as a tradesman. I've got no choice to be on the road, but so many of those cars have one person in them, can't drive to fucken save themselves, and are too arrogant to realise that a following distance letting people in SPEEDS TRAFFIC UP! But none of you will understand why that is either I'll bet.

[Akzle]

And Jaffas wonder why the rest of the country doesn't give a shit about their 'traffic woes'

not a jaffa, but just to be clear, i dont give a fuck about ANYONES traffic woes. Cos guess fucken what. If you're complaining about traffic YOU ARE TRAFFIC.

Fuckwits, the lottaya.

[Moi]

Welcome to my world. I commute Paraparaumu to the CB bloody D every day... The Missus works in Tawa...

What's wrong with using the train?

[Maha]

Hey MD, give up this silly working for a living and move further up.:laugh:
We haven't looked back,stay well away from Wgton and if shopping has to be done go to PalmyNth.
Going into Levin for basic shopping and cheap petrol,only two sets of Traffic lights.:msn-wink:

I had to get my car into Thorndon last Sat for a WOF and Service,a fucking nightmare.Had to double back from that cemetary at Plimmerton and do the Piecock (which was packed both ways at fucking 60 kph).
All cos modern Police can't clear a crash scene and keep traffic moving.(see, they miss my training :shifty::Police:). Traffic clears north of Otaki.
ps Hows Steve's Doocati coming along after his oops ????

There was one of those staged single car accident placements just north of Paraparaumu on Thursday Gaz, possibly it had something to do with adding to the north bound snarl up. Some of the traffic buildup on the AKL M/Way is more often than not a car with it's hood up on the side of the road.

[Madness]

What's wrong with using the train?

Taggers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/78276367/Masked-group-stops-and-vandalises-Wellington-passenger-train?

[swbarnett]

You crash a lot more than I do.
Even if true, how is that relevant to what I said?

[swbarnett]

One.
In how many kms and years?

[nzspokes]

Even if true, how is that relevant to what I said?
Answer the question.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk

[swbarnett]

Answer the question.


You crash a lot more than I do.
I don't see a question?

The issue referred to was that of personal responsibility and one's right to do whatever the fuck you like if the only potential direct victim is yourself. You have yet to state how our relative crash rates are relevant to this.



To answer the implied question. Since 1982 I've done about 30,000km per annum with 10 years with no bike in the middle. That's 24 years of riding and about 720,000km. In that time I've had one incident that I would consider an actual accident (got rear-ended at an intersection while doing about 20kph). Other than that I dropped the bike a time or two very early in my riding career.

[Maha]

I don't see a question?

The issue referred to was that of personal responsibility and one's right to do whatever the fuck you like if the only potential direct victim is yourself. You have yet to state how our relative crash rates are relevant to this.



To answer the implied question. Since 1982 I've done about 30,000km per annum with 10 years with no bike in the middle. That's 24 years of riding and about 720,000km. In that time I've had one incident that I would consider an actual accident (got rear-ended at an intersection while doing about 20kph). Other than that I dropped the bike a time or two very early in my riding career.

Your 24 years or riding verses spokes 5 years? you could have had 6 crashes to be on average with him.

[Jin]

Answer the question.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Tapatalk
Answer the question. In how many kms and years.

[nzspokes]

Answer the question. In how many kms and years.

6 years teens to early 20s. At a guess 18,000ks a year. Recently, 6 years and 30ishk a year. Dont bother counting these days.

[rua]

It was brought to my attention this afternoon that the gorge and sh1/2 now has increased monitoring, mainly due to 99% of road users ignoring the longstanding 70 zone.

I'm not complaining, the rules are clear about that. Not the ginger and he was pretty reasonable.

My ticket is in the mail as a reminder, maybe something to bear in mind.

Not specifically splitting related but a general heads up.

[BuzzardNZ]

It was brought to my attention this afternoon that the gorge and sh1/2 now has increased monitoring, mainly due to 99% of road users ignoring the longstanding 70 zone.

I'm not complaining, the rules are clear about that. Not the ginger and he was pretty reasonable.

My ticket is in the mail as a reminder, maybe something to bear in mind.

Not specifically splitting related but a general heads up.

New fixed speed cameras? If so, whereabouts?

[yevjenko]

New fixed speed cameras? If so, whereabouts?
Not yet. They will be in the gantries though

[R650R]

Re lane splitting....

It seems through countless gopro and media footage that its fine for cyclists to lane split and pass on the inside with very much the same or more speed differential than a motorcyclist would lane splitting. And then its the car drivers fault if they turn and knock the cyclist off.
I think theres an angle we can exploit here to make lane splitting fully legit....

[rastuscat]

Re lane splitting....

It seems through countless gopro and media footage that its fine for cyclists to lane split and pass on the inside with very much the same or more speed differential than a motorcyclist would lane splitting. And then its the car drivers fault if they turn and knock the cyclist off.
I think theres an angle we can exploit here to make lane splitting fully legit....

Cycling up the left hand side of a line of stationary vehicles is legal. Always has been.

Riding a cycle at 30 kmh past a queue of cars doing 25 is not legal.

A cycle is classified as a vehicle. Some laws specify "vehicle" while others specify "motor vehicle".

For example it's illegal to use a cellphone while cycling as the Road User Rule on cellphones uses the term "vehicle". But you can't be convicted of excess breath alcohol on a bicycle as the Land Transport Act section which deals with drink drIrving specifies "motor vehicle".

All that aside, it's basically technicalities which even a lot of cops don't understand. Expecting the average cop to understand the intricacies of legislation as it relates to cycling is just a waste of time. Most cops don't give a toss.

Same re motorcycling. Most cops don't, so don't really fully understand those motorcycle specific rules.

When I deliver the Ride Forever courses I always cover whether it's legal to ride in cycle lanes and bus lanes. Amazing how few motorcyclists actually know the answer.

Few can tell the actual law even on following distances. The old 2 second rule gets trotted out.

Just don't expect everyone to be an expert. And don't expect what happens out in the real world to align with the legislation.

[R650R]

Cycling up the left hand side of a line of stationary vehicles is legal. Always has been.

Riding a cycle at 30 kmh past a queue of cars doing 25 is not legal.

A cycle is classified as a vehicle. Some laws specify "vehicle" while others specify "motor vehicle".

For example it's illegal to use a cellphone while cycling as the Road User Rule on cellphones uses the term "vehicle". But you can't be convicted of excess breath alcohol on a bicycle as the Land Transport Act section which deals with drink drIrving specifies "motor vehicle".

All that aside, it's basically technicalities which even a lot of cops don't understand. Expecting the average cop to understand the intricacies of legislation as it relates to cycling is just a waste of time. Most cops don't give a toss.

Same re motorcycling. Most cops don't, so don't really fully understand those motorcycle specific rules.

When I deliver the Ride Forever courses I always cover whether it's legal to ride in cycle lanes and bus lanes. Amazing how few motorcyclists actually know the answer.

Few can tell the actual law even on following distances. The old 2 second rule gets trotted out.

Just don't expect everyone to be an expert. And don't expect what happens out in the real world to align with the legislation.

Some very interesting points. Hence why awhile back I mooted the idea of binning all the various specific offences and replacing with driving/riding in an unsafe manner.
So the two second rule is urban legend, another roadcode 'interpretation' touted as law???? So we just need to able to stop safely at any given time? What I find interesting is the number of people who will become preoccupied with the following vehicle at slower speeds eg 40 in a 50 or 70 in a hundred. In those circumstances your relative physical distance closes dramatically but due to slower speed your still actually two seconds apart. The oppositie end of the spectrum is two formula one cars doing over 300km/h that might only be 0.2 seconds apart but a very significant 'safe' physical following distance.
Yep us truck drivers are very glad of the lack of knowledge by the general duties staff and even highway cops, there are heaps of truck specific offences easy to be caught on.

Back to cyclists then... in the case of the classic car turning left into carpark or side street if they are in front of the cyclist at the commencement of the turn then the cyclist is technically overtaking and in the wrong????
Yet we hear of this situation all the time and its the evil car drivers fault.... I'm pushbiking to work these days but utilise the urban guerrilla method or basically just ride like the way we did as kids. 90% footpath and cycleways giving way to pedestrians and all other traffic and 10% deserted empty industrial roads. So I've had no near misses or anything worth writing home about as I'm assuming all responsibility for where my 'vehicle' is and not letting random other factors in.

[rastuscat]

Ah, the old 2 second rule.

When I ask my groups what the legal following distance is at 50 kmh they mostly come back with the 2 second rule.

I then word them in on the Road User Rule, and tell them that the 2 second rule is a great idea, and it's in the Road Code, but it's not law.

Then I reel a 20 metre tape measure out behind a vehicle in the car park, everyone laughs and agrees that nobody leaves 20 metres at 50 kmh. They generally agree on about 9 or 10 metres.

Imagine their surprise when I tell them that at 50 kmh you are travelling at 13.8 metres per second, and in 2 seconds you travel 27.6 metres.

So the law says 20 metres and nobody does it. But the 2 second rule asks for 27.6 metres..........

Lots of folk know the 2 second rule, few ever apply it.

And it's not just about stopping in time. If you are too close you reduce your visibility of other things, and reduce other road users view of you. That's a far bigger issue.

Which is why I bang on about following distance.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303092.html

[rastuscat]

I cycled 30 km one way to work quite a lot until I changed jobs.

The first 15 km was out in a rural area and was a training ride, head down arse up. But when I got into built up area it became an exercise in defensiveness.

If one were to film a snapshot of 10 minutes at any intersection in central Christchurch you would see so many potentially risky moves by cyclists, motorcyclists, car drivers, truck drivers. Some are legal, some not.

When you have a broken arm, leg and ruptured spleen, the legality of an action means little.

Even rigid adherence to law is no guarantee of safety.

[pritch]

But you can't be convicted of excess breath alcohol on a bicycle as the Land Transport Act section which deals with drink drIrving specifies "motor vehicle".


Who knew? I will file that one away. Thanks for that.

[PrincessBandit]

...

When you have a broken arm, leg and ruptured spleen, the legality of an action means little.

Even rigid adherence to law is no guarantee of safety.

Which really only affirms the old "do you want to be right or alive" mantra. Also applies to allowing dickheads on the same stretch of road as you doing their stupid shit and just staying the hell as far away from them as possible rather than doing anything which might be legally correct (e.g. determinedly sticking to a speed limit making it difficult or more risky for them to carve past you) but then ends up in tears all round.

[southernmike]

Who knew? I will file that one away. Thanks for that.

You can still end up just as dead on a bicycle though!

[Big Dog]

25+ years ago the distinction Rastus describes certainly didn't stop my brother from getting detained. The term arrested was used but he was not cuffed or charged with anything.
He was taken to the station.
A couple of hours later he was dropped home along with his pushbike and an infringement for something. Couldn't tell you what.


I suspect the cop didn't know the distinction before the got down town. I also suspect my brother failed the attitude test.
Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[rastuscat]

25+ years ago the distinction Rastus describes certainly didn't stop my brother from getting detained. The term arrested was used but he was not cuffed or charged with anything.
He was taken to the station.
A couple of hours later he was dropped home along with his pushbike and an infringement for something. Couldn't tell you what.


I suspect the cop didn't know the distinction before the got down town. I also suspect my brother failed the attitude test.
Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

The law on drink drive 25 years ago was in the Transport Act 1962, Section 58. Now it's in the Land Transport Act, Section 57.

I suspect that over the years many arrests were made which were turned into the Fish and Chip Act when it was realised that they were unlawful.

Your brother would have been detained for detoxification, a law still available. Fortunately. It allows police to detain someone for their own good until the booze wears off.

Interesting that he still got a ticket. The attitude test appears not to have gone well.

[rastuscat]

Who knew? I will file that one away. Thanks for that.

It's surprising how many tiny wee details are unknown to folk.

Lots think they know the rules, but like everything, you don't know what you don't know.

I'm fairly good at the transport rules, but it's a specialist field with even more specialist fiends contained therein. Like boy racer modifications. I don't know much about them, mostly coz I don't care.

[swbarnett]

Lots think they know the rules, but like everything, you don't know what you don't know.
And most don't know enough to know how little they know. So they think they know everything.

[Scuba_Steve]

Lots of folk know the 2 second rule, few ever apply it.

And it's not just about stopping in time. If you are too close you reduce your visibility of other things, and reduce other road users view of you. That's a far bigger issue.

Which is why I bang on about following distance.


It's not about stopping time, it's about reaction time. It takes an avg of 1.5 secs (in a surprise) to acknowledge & react i.e. shove on the brakes; 2secs is just a much easier slogan & timing than 1.5secs (also alot of peoples 2secs is about 1.5) but does give some braking time in the equation too

Somewhat simplified in this graph... Humans are slow creatures, mostly thanks to our colour vision apparently
321276

This is also why impeding the flow of traffic is a much more dangerous offense than speeding as it causes a long line of tailgating/reduced following distances; compounded when they're also failing to keep left (a pet peeve of mine)

[Akzle]

i always thought it was (you should be able to stop in...) "half the clear distance ahead of you"

meh. No fucks given. I havent ridden/driven into any shit in days.

[rastuscat]

It's not about stopping time, it's about reaction time. It takes an avg of 1.5 secs (in a surprise) to acknowledge & react i.e. shove on the brakes; 2secs is just a much easier slogan & timing than 1.5secs (also alot of peoples 2secs is about 1.5) but does give some braking time in the equation too

Somewhat simplified in this graph... Humans are slow creatures, mostly thanks to our colour vision apparently
321276

This is also why impeding the flow of traffic is a much more dangerous offense than speeding as it causes a long line of tailgating/reduced following distances; compounded when they're also failing to keep left (a pet peeve of mine)

Cheers Skoober

Stopping distance plus reaction time is one reaspn why I leave so much following distance.

I also find I have less stress when I sit back and give myself a safety buffer.

[swbarnett]

i always thought it was (you should be able to stop in...) "half the clear distance ahead of you"
It's "the distance that you can see to be clear" on a road with a center line. Half that on one without.

[Swoop]

Just don't expect everyone to be an expert...
:confused:
You do realise the site you are logged into?

Fucksakes, what has happened around here?;)

[Akzle]

:confused:
You do realise the site you are logged into?

Fucksakes, what has happened around here?;)

i blame the jews

[5150]

A cycle is classified as a vehicle. Some laws specify "vehicle" while others specify "motor vehicle".



If that is the case, then why don't they pay registration? After all, they are public road users as well..

[rastuscat]

If that is the case, then why don't they pay registration? After all, they are public road users as well..

Ah, that old chestnut.

Actually I do. I register my bikes, cars and trailers. When I'm riding my cycle I'm still paying.

Exactly the same advantage is available to you.

[swbarnett]

Ah, that old chestnut.

Actually I do. I register my bikes, cars and trailers. When I'm riding my cycle I'm still paying.

Exactly the same advantage is available to you.
What about those that only own a bicycle?

I like the system that they had in Switzerland when I was there. fr5 a year (roughly $5) to use the roads and you get $2M liability cover along with it. Of course, in Switzerland most people are cycle or public transport only.

[rastuscat]

What about those that only own a bicycle?

They pay for the damage they cause to roads.

Nil.

[swbarnett]

They pay for the damage they cause to roads.

Nil.
Very good point.

They should not be charged for road upkeep. ACC, however, is another matter.

[R650R]

Seems lane splitting is ok up in Aucks.... couple weeks and nothing in the mail.
Done at sensible speeds and even gave the 2nd cop a courtesy hello wave before I passed.
Maybe donut shop was calling.... :)

[swbarnett]

Seems lane splitting is ok up in Aucks.... couple weeks and nothing in the mail.
Done at sensible speeds and even gave the 2nd cop a courtesy hello wave before I passed.
Maybe donut shop was calling.... :)
You'll be fine. I lost count years ago how many cops I've split past. Some even made room.

[rastuscat]

Very good point.

They should not be charged for road upkeep. ACC, however, is another matter.

When I'm out riding my bicycle I'm still paying ACC levies on two cars, two bikes and a trailer.

Even when not using them.

I don't want to use ACC, but it's good to know it's there.

[Bassmatt]

When I'm out riding my bicycle I'm still paying ACC levies on two cars, two bikes and a trailer.

Even when not using them.

.

So what?
When I'm out riding my motorcycle I'm still paying ACC levies on two cars, a trailer (even when I'm not using them), paying it for my employees and on my income (even if I'm not actually at my place of work)
We can all play that game, dunno why cyclists think they're special.

[Moi]

So what?
When I'm out riding my motorcycle I'm still paying ACC levies on two cars, a trailer (even when I'm not using them), paying it for my employees and on my income (even if I'm not actually at my place of work)

We can all play that game, dunno why cyclists think they're special.

don't you mean... dunno why motocyclists think they're special

[swbarnett]

When I'm out riding my bicycle I'm still paying ACC levies on two cars, two bikes and a trailer.

Even when not using them.
Which is an excellent point and illustrates perfectly the absurdity of charging ACC by type of vehicle (or any other demarcation). Take it out of the general tax take and all these arguments disappear.