Of course this couldn't happen here

[pritch]

I'm sure our "situational awareness" gurus will be able to tell us what the rider did wrong.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2014/03/20/videos/bizarre-motorcycle-crash-caught-camera-video/

[haydes55]

Firstly, the guy following is riding a Z1000 by the looks of it :2thumbsup:

Secondly, from the time you can see the car pulling across to the point of contact, I count just over 2 seconds. Enough time to stop from 30mph (50km/h)? Or turn?

[Scubbo]

ahh there you see, the car wasn't wearing a high-viz...

[Gremlin]

With an "oncoming" car, I wouldn't have been so close to the centre line. and would have moved more centre of the road, if not slightly left of centre.

Doubtful that would have avoided anything, but could the action of moving assisted in being visible? Impossible to know. Hard to avoid such muppets, and I feel exactly the same way as the rider, who thankfully hopped up, gear did it's job etc.

[george formby]

Firstly, the guy following is riding a Z1000 by the looks of it :2thumbsup:

Secondly, from the time you can see the car pulling across to the point of contact, I count just over 2 seconds. Enough time to stop from 30mph (50km/h)? Or turn?

Tough call. Hard to tell but the brake light seems to come on pretty quick. Possibly lost some reaction time while his eyes widened in shock & stated "oh crikey, look at this chap"
Following bike had to haul up pretty hard at the end, too.
But. Full gear, scrubbed off speed, did a nice tumble & sprang to his feet waving his arms about. I consider that a win after T boning a plonker.

[Tazz]

:jerry::jerry:

Lucky/unlucky guy.

Just to beat a few to it...

"Because he was not anticipating a wild retard to suddenly appear, he was clearly speeding."

Or

"He should have been aware there was other traffic around him and got off to push his bike on the footpath just to be safe. Recklessness likes that gives us other bikers a bad name"

- resident KB 'Sons of Jebus never do nuffink wrong' (because the don't do nuffink) folk.

:facepalm:

[unstuck]

He was looking at the car.

[george formby]

He was looking at the car.

T'is what I think, too. Not often discussed but in this case if he found something of interest on the road a foot away from the car he may have been able to pull up. Bit of fixation happening.
I'm not gonna knock it. That's what I meant by eyeballs & oh crikey, all focused on the car. Would take a huge presence of mind to look down when everything we do is look up and beat back those instincts of ours.
Poor bugger, that was a real "oh fuck" moment.
I prattle on about training & practice but I think it would take a lorra lorra practice indeed to have the correct mind set to stay upright in such a short distance / time. Or coming off second best a few times over the years of riding.
Hope he's fully comp & the nitwit is all legit.

[James Deuce]

I would've crashed mightily and added to the injury list. One side of A4 and growing.

[TheDemonLord]

But. Full gear, scrubbed off speed, did a nice tumble & sprang to his feet waving his arms about. I consider that a win after T boning a plonker.

This

This is why I always wear all my riding gear - I may be the greatest Motorcyclist ever (according to me) but its the other idiots on the road like in the video

[98tls]

Dunno whats up with my puter all i get is a review of the 2013 Triumph street tracker:weird:gods its ugly.

[rustyrobot]

Argh poor guy. Looks like he saw the kid inside too and decide to not go too mental - so nice move on his behalf considering.

[SMOKEU]

The driver deserves a good fucking hiding and their car bashed in properly. I can't see how visibility was a factor, or how this was a "freak accident". It's nothing less than gross negligence at best from the cager.

[george formby]

Er, the driver? Look again. What was that about a good fucking?

[Murray]

The driver deserves a good fucking.

No - the blond in the car does though

[george formby]

No - the blond in the car does though

That would be the blonde driving. The dude in the funky shorts gets out the back door.

[Murray]

That would be the blonde driving. The dude in the funky shorts gets out the back door.

So correct you are - should have realised straight away that it was the blond women driving:lol:

[george formby]

So correct you are - should have realised straight away that it was the blond women driving:lol:

I didn't click instantly, the bloke leaping out the car causes assumption.

[triplethumper]

There's some pretty long shadows on the ground, Driver may not have seen bike due to sunstrike... still no excuse. Doesn't look like bike had his headlight on which may have helped? Hard to say but I'm bloody sure I couldn't have avoided that car either.

[Murray]

There's some pretty long shadows on the ground, Driver may not have seen bike due to sunstrike... still no excuse. Doesn't look like bike had his headlight on which may have helped? Hard to say but I'm bloody sure I couldn't have avoided that car either.

Don't worry KATMAN will be along at some stage to tell us all what should have been done in that situation.

I await with interest

[pritch]

I await with interest

You are not alone.

[Swoop]

I await with interest
I'll join the queue... Sure it will be <STRIKE>educational</STRIKE> Interesting.

[Murray]

Hello Katman I question and a few others are also interested on your advice on avoiding this situation.

no pisstake from me but your thoughts please. A similar event happened to me.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/165457-Of-course-this-couldn-t-happen-here

cheers

[MVnut]

Firstly, the guy following is riding a Z1000 by the looks of it :2thumbsup:

Secondly, from the time you can see the car pulling across to the point of contact, I count just over 2 seconds. Enough time to stop from 30mph (50km/h)? Or turn?

Nowhere near enough time to brake short of the car mate, get real.....and coming across like that you don't really know which option is a safe one to try and avoid the crash. What would you have done? Go right? Go left? Or just brake?

[James Deuce]

Nowhere near enough time to brake short of the car mate, get real.....and coming across like that you don't really know which option is a safe one to try and avoid the crash. What would you have done? Go right? Go left? Or just brake?

WFO into the driver's door!

[haydes55]

Nowhere near enough time to brake short of the car mate, get real.....and coming across like that you don't really know which option is a safe one to try and avoid the crash. What would you have done? Go right? Go left? Or just brake?





Last time I practiced emergency braking I could stop in about 3-4 bike lengths from 50km/h without any reaction times. Personally though I would have panicked, braked, once realising it was futile, released the brakes and turn as sharp as I could right. And maybe still collect the car.

Maybe they were going faster than 30mph, maybe he didn't brake as efficiently as he could have, maybe he target fixated. Who knows, all I know is he went down, and there may have been a way to avoid the crash. I'm not saying I'm an above average rider by any stretch of the imagination. But when I see a crash, I'd rather find a way to avoid that happening to me, than to just accept crashing as a fact of riding bikes.

Katman may not be delicate with his words, but he makes a shit load of sense sometimes. And I don't see why any rider would be happy just having a SMIDSY every couple of years. Do people crash twice in the same situation? I'd love to learn from other peoples crashes.

I'm going to actually practice and see how sharp I can turn at 50km/h, I'd presume quite sharp if I were prepared for it. In an emergency, less so. But I don't want to be limited to just braking in a straight line if such a scenario arises.

[Murray]

Katman may not be delicate with his words, but he makes a shit load of sense sometimes.

Katmans wisdom has been sought in another thread re this scenario. he has yet to respond

[george formby]

Last time I practiced emergency braking I could stop in about 3-4 bike lengths from 50km/h without any reaction times. Personally though I would have panicked, braked, once realising it was futile, released the brakes and turn as sharp as I could right. And maybe still collect the car.

Maybe they were going faster than 30mph, maybe he didn't brake as efficiently as he could have, maybe he target fixated. Who knows, all I know is he went down, and there may have been a way to avoid the crash. I'm not saying I'm an above average rider by any stretch of the imagination. But when I see a crash, I'd rather find a way to avoid that happening to me, than to just accept crashing as a fact of riding bikes.

Katman may not be delicate with his words, but he makes a shit load of sense sometimes. And I don't see why any rider would be happy just having a SMIDSY every couple of years. Do people crash twice in the same situation? I'd love to learn from other peoples crashes.

I'm going to actually practice and see how sharp I can turn at 50km/h, I'd presume quite sharp if I were prepared for it. In an emergency, less so. But I don't want to be limited to just braking in a straight line if such a scenario arises.

I've done a bit of that evasion practice. Quite remarkable how quick & hard you can move the bike. It has to work in two directions, though. Out of lane to avoid the numpty & back into lane to avoid oncoming traffic. It's a very interesting exercise & highly entertaining for observers. Got to have good situational awareness too pull it off, your increasing potential collisions.
Still reckon in the op's vid it would have been a case of "STOP YA BASSID!" Anchors away & fingers crossed.

Oh. You have to get the evasion thing off pat with one hand so you can flick the bird in passing, cool factor. Push, pull. A quick swerve is just anorak.

[swbarnett]

Still reckon in the op's vid it would have been a case of "STOP YA BASSID!" Anchors away & fingers crossed.
I know what I would've done. I'm not saying it would've worked in that situation but it has worked for me in similar ones.

1. Emergency brake.
2. Half way to car (once you know you can't stop in time) release the brake.
3. Massive countersteer to the right - to the point that if you keep going you'll fall over.
4. Just when you are about to get to the point of no return (or sooner if you're far enough right) stop youself falling with a massive countersteer to the left.
5. By now you should be upright, straight and able to clear the back of the car. Get on the gas double quick and get back in your own lane.
6. Pull over and stop. The adrenaline rush has propbably put you in no condition to keep riding. Take some time to calm down.

My rule of thumb for approaching a car that wants to turn accross my path is as follows:

Recognise their intent by either seeing an indicator (the easy way) or observing an unusual reduction in speed. Ease off the throttle and move to the leff of the lane (in you're already in the left wiggle to the right and back). This means you're more likely to be able to get past in time if you need to and they're more likely to see you as you cross the lane than if you stay stayionary in their view. Once you get close enough to the car that braking is not a practible option if they do turn in front of you wind open the throttle and get the hell out of there. If they do turn in front of you proceed as outlined above.

[Metastable]

Very hard to avoid that one..... one of those reasons why even though you don't plan to crash... gear is good. :D

IMO -and easy to say in hindsight, but hard to do in practice.... you swerve .

[george formby]

Very hard to avoid that one..... one of those reasons why even though you don't plan to crash... gear is good. :D

IMO -and easy to say in hindsight, but hard to do in practice.... you swerve .

Seein as he hit the back of the car, as said and outlined previous, yeah, possibly.
Dunno. If it were me on my bike, baring in mind it's weight, braking performance (lack of) and my glacial reaction time I would probably have cut the car in half.

Would like to hear the thoughts of a life long cat food member on this. They do the most training. Still reckon it would be a bin for over 90% of riders.

[PrincessBandit]

Looking at that vid the car was clearly visible to the riders (take from that whatever you will), even if the riders weren't "visible" to the driver. Yes, yes, we all know how blind and unaware some road users can be.
I'd have probably hit the car - by the time I'd thought "shit, don't hit it, don't hit it" my focus would still have been on the car and my swerving skills aren't probably too hot. Some other riders may have avoided it though, depending on speed and maneuverability skills.

What's that old saying so beloved on this site? Oh, that's right - "ride like every other idiot on the road is out to kill you"...

[george formby]

Looking at that vid the car was clearly visible to the riders (take from that whatever you will), even if the riders weren't "visible" to the driver. Yes, yes, we all know how blind and unaware some road users can be.
I'd have probably hit the car - by the time I'd thought "shit, don't hit it, don't hit it" my focus would still have been on the car and my swerving skills aren't probably too hot. Some other riders may have avoided it though, depending on speed and maneuverability skills.

What's that old saying so beloved on this site? Oh, that's right - "ride like every other idiot on the road is out to kill you"...

If we honestly did that we would all take the bus. We can but try.

[george formby]

I know what I would've done. I'm not saying it would've worked in that situation but it has worked for me in similar ones.


3. Massive countersteer to the right - to the point that if you keep going you'll fall over.
4. Just when you are about to get to the point of no return (or sooner if you're far enough right) stop youself falling with a massive countersteer to the left.


You forgot to mention climbing round the bike like a midget on a greased pig. Well, that's what sprang to mind when I did it.

[R650R]

Hard to measure things accurately via youtube but I give him the benefit of the doubt of doing best he could, brake light came on fairly quick.
Been in similar situations twice that are burned into the memory banks, both times just panic braked on front and did mother of all stoppies.
She was indicating (they are good for that in UK) so maybe rolled off earlier but we don't know how early he could see her properly.

[skippa1]

My observation, it looks like the speed the bikes are doing is faster than the cars that are on the road. Speed may be a contributing factor, along with the muppet driver.

[BigAl]

Hello Katman I question and a few others are also interested on your advice on avoiding this situation.

He's too busy polishing his mobility scooter and preparing a safety briefing for the Aunty Agnis retirement home with the promise of some poontang.

[biketimus_prime]

Jeez! What a video, can't believe he got up and held his cool, I would have punched a baby!

Whenever I see cars that might turn in front of me from the right, I slow down and move to the left of my lane, or if from my left I move to the right of my lane.

Recently though, nothing scarier than a grandma about to pull out on your left and a bus that wants to turn from your right. You don't want to slow down in case they think they can make the turn, you don't want to speed up in case they make the turn.

[PrincessBandit]

If we honestly did that we would all take the bus. We can but try.

True, but doesn't stop people from spouting it.

[george formby]

Jeez! What a video, can't believe he got up and held his cool, I would have punched a baby!

Whenever I see cars that might turn in front of me from the right, I slow down and move to the left of my lane, or if from my left I move to the right of my lane.

Recently though, nothing scarier than a grandma about to pull out on your left and a bus that wants to turn from your right. You don't want to slow down in case they think they can make the turn, you don't want to speed up in case they make the turn.

There in lies the rub. Mights, maybes, could do. Minimising your risk.
Poor bugger in the vid had a split second to save the day. Somebody said they counted 2 seconds from the car moving to impact. I think that is generous.
IMHO the rider did pretty good, could have got a lot more lurid. Those toyota doors are made of tin foil, he did a quick Cirque du Soleil thing & bounced up like Wolverine.
The whole thing is on vid, he has some scrubbage on his expensive leathers & will, hopefully get paid out for front end damage & plastics. Unless it can be proven from the footage he was speeding.
If you had happened to glance at your speedo at the time, scratch your nuts, spot a fruit bat in one of the trees, etc, your reaction space would have gone.
Minimising your risk is the be all & end all but unfortunately has no guarantees.

A good case for fully comp insurance me thinks.

[pritch]

True, but doesn't stop people from spouting it.

That's because the basic idea is sound. Some people word it differently, but you should never trust that the other road users actually know what they are doing, or are awake, intelligent, or even sober. They may well be none of the above.

[Tazz]

That's because the basic idea is sound. Some people word it differently, but you should never trust that the other road users actually know what they are doing, or are awake, intelligent, or even sober. They may well be none of the above.

Exactly! That's why I never trust those bloody bus drivers and take my bike :oi-grr:

[FJRider]

True, but doesn't stop people from spouting it.

I think the whole idea in saying it ... is to get it firmly in our heads that "IT" can/does/will happen to us ALL ..

The feeling of some riders ... a lot of riders even ... that it can't/wont happen to "ME" ...

And ... when it does happen ... as it IS happening ... the element of disbelief that it is happening to THEM ... slows the brain down to not be doing something about it. The usual first thought as "IT" is happening ... is that THEY are in the wrong (and know it) and they will stop in time.

SOME times they do ... some times they don't. Those that try to guess which option will happen ... better hope it's their lucky day.

[FJRider]

... & will, hopefully get paid out for front end damage & plastics. Unless it can be proven from the footage he was speeding.


Paid out from whom .. ??? The drivers or the riders insurance company ... ???

Proving (or alleging) he was speeding ... wont automatically decrease/remove the ability of getting any insurance payout from any policy. (His or theirs) Policy wordings in their respective policy IS important though.

If neither had insurance ... the likely hood of any payout is slim. (Regardless of who is at fault) and may need court action to get ...

[Kendoll]

Wow, as mentioned by many, possibly avoidable but at a stretch, either by adjusting road position, masterful swerving, cager mind reading (not much to read I bet) or superhuman brake reactions.

...All I know is, I would've punched that stupid bitch right in the ovaries. Straight shot to the babymaker. :girlfight:

[Tazz]

Those saying there is time to do much more than what was done must all be drag racers and have IQ's near on 200 to have the time to process and react fast enough to this :lol: Crack up.


Very hard to avoid that one..... one of those reasons why even though you don't plan to crash... gear is good. :D

IMO -and easy to say in hindsight, but hard to do in practice.... you swerve .

To automatically swerve without thinking about where you're swerving to is probably the best way to find yourself as the worlds ugliest hood ornament. But each to their own :)

[James Deuce]

All I can say is, "Shee...Fuck".

[george formby]

Paid out from whom .. ??? The drivers or the riders insurance company ... ???

Proving (or alleging) he was speeding ... wont automatically decrease/remove the ability of getting any insurance payout from any policy. (His or theirs) Policy wordings in their respective policy IS important though.

If neither had insurance ... the likely hood of any payout is slim. (Regardless of who is at fault) and may need court action to get ...

One would hope the drivers insurer has to pay out. I would hope that both the riders after investing so much in bikes, gear & ickle cameras are fully comp.
They cut your nuts off in the UK for not being insured especially if your involved in an accident.

[James Deuce]

They also apportion blame in the UK so your insurance pay out can be affected by the %age you are held responsible for an incident.

[FJRider]

One would hope the drivers insurer has to pay out. I would hope that both the riders after investing so much in bikes, gear & ickle cameras are fully comp.
They cut your nuts off in the UK for not being insured especially if your involved in an accident.

In (too) many cases ... many car AND motorcycle owners do not have insurance. And they have no intention of paying out to any they may "accidentally" hit ... Unless the courts insist ... and often not even then.

This is not the UK ...

[george formby]

In (too) many cases ... many car AND motorcycle owners do not have insurance. And they have no intention of paying out to any they may "accidentally" hit ... Unless the courts insist ... and often not even then.

This is not the UK ...

The vid is.

[JimO]

if the guy had been waving she may have seen him sooner

[pritch]

if the guy had been waving she may have seen him sooner

Yeah, he waved afterward but it was too late then :whistle:

[swbarnett]

Those saying there is time to do much more than what was done must all be drag racers and have IQ's near on 200 to have the time to process and react fast enough to this :lol: Crack up.
If you rely on your conscious brain in this sort of situation then you need to train your brain. I have gotten out of situations not dissimilar to this without even knew I was doing it.

The subconscious brain is thousands of time faster than the conscious.


To automatically swerve without thinking about where you're swerving to is probably the best way to find yourself as the worlds ugliest hood ornament. But each to their own :)
As I've hinted at about above, using your subconscious is not "not thinking" it's using your brain in the way it was built. If humans relied on the conscious brain all the time we would've died out many millenia ago.

[george formby]

I'm sure quite a few of us have managed to keep the wheels down & avoid a prang without conscious decision making, well, not initially. The wee brain & bod have already kicked into survival mode while we register the dilemma.
More than once I've pulled off maneuvers I would not attempt consciously.

I don't consider my lucky escapes to be good riding, more likely the result of lots of varied riding from an early age.

[chasio]

In (too) many cases ... many car AND motorcycle owners do not have insurance. And they have no intention of paying out to any they may "accidentally" hit ... Unless the courts insist ... and often not even then.

This is not the UK ...

As noted it is the UK, and third party is mandatory and has a high compliance rate. Looking at the car and driver, I'd bet a few quid he came out alright insurance-wise.

My normal practise is to do the SIAM weave when I see a vehicle coming towards a junction where that might happen. I reckon it helps.

[haydes55]

As noted it is the UK, and third party is mandatory and has a high compliance rate. Looking at the car and driver, I'd bet a few quid he came out alright insurance-wise.



My normal practise is to do the SIAM weave when I see a vehicle coming towards a junction where that might happen. I reckon it helps.



What if the vehicle crossing your path was turning into a driveway?

[george formby]

What if the vehicle crossing your path was turning into a driveway?

Just espied your Avatar. You'd be sweet.:yes:

[Metastable]

Those saying there is time to do much more than what was done must all be drag racers and have IQ's near on 200 to have the time to process and react fast enough to this :lol: Crack up.



To automatically swerve without thinking about where you're swerving to is probably the best way to find yourself as the worlds ugliest hood ornament. But each to their own :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMwo7ORYH0

You must be talking about a guy like this. Like I said, difficult to do, but best bet is to swerve. Here's a :clap: for the rider. :D

[george formby]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMwo7ORYH0

You must be talking about a guy like this. Like I said, difficult to do, but best bet is to swerve. Here's a :clap: for the rider. :D

Thought of popping that in, too. Does the car clip him/her/it? Sounds like it. And a quick jink. Kudos.
If the rider turned their head at the approaching car.........

[Ender EnZed]

I almost certainly would've hit the car but there's no way that was an "unavoidable" accident.

[Murray]

The more I look at maybe (just maybe) if he was aware no cars were behind the car cutting in front of him he may have swerved to the right into the oncoming lane. I had accident coming round corner with woman driver coming across into my lane I clipped right hand front of her car (big bank on left hand side no where to go and she hit me in left hand tyre track my side of road). If (and I wonder) I was aware whether any cars were behind her and I had gone into the oncoming lane would I have missed her or would she have corrected and hit me full on?? Dont know - so many things in a split second?? KATMAN where are you on this one

[george formby]

The more I look at maybe (just maybe) if he was aware no cars were behind the car cutting in front of him he may have swerved to the right into the oncoming lane. I had accident coming round corner with woman driver coming across into my lane I clipped right hand front of her car (big bank on left hand side no where to go and she hit me in left hand tyre track my side of road). If (and I wonder) I was aware whether any cars were behind her and I had gone into the oncoming lane would I have missed her or would she have corrected and hit me full on?? Dont know - so many things in a split second?? KATMAN where are you on this one

Very, very quiet.

Nothing from the pro's either. Still like to hear an instructors opinion on it.

Like you say, if you know whats happening front & back you get options. I'm like a bloody owl watching my road space, front & rear, but still not convinced I'm registering everything I could. That doubt would temper my reaction.

We should have a poll. Swerve or anchors. If swerving, right or left. That's a big driveway.

[Katman]

KATMAN where are you on this one

The car driver was indicating her intention. The fact that she turned across in front of the motorcyclist shouldn't have come as a surprise to him.

Unfortunately, it looks like it took him completely by surprise. It doesn't look as though he made any effort to stop or avoid her.

As has been said already, his positioning leaves a little to be desired. He should have moved further to the left and maybe that movement across the car driver's view may have been enough for her to suddenly see the bike.

[george formby]

Indicated her intention how? Dunno how to slow mo youtube. The light in the aftermath is a brake light. Left light is bwoken.

Looks like his brake light comes on pretty quick. As for being surprised then any car & driveway combination could reduce you to walking pace. Fair enough, too. The more that's going on the slower I go.

Moving to the left would have increased the size of his target unless he intended riding through that gap.

I'm just spouting scenarios. See no sign of an indicator in the vid but my skills are limited on a poota, too.

Still a case of may & might Be's IMHO.

[James Deuce]

Ha! Completely Katman was rational!


Unlike me and sheep!

[Katman]

The light in the aftermath is a brake light.

The light in the aftermath is a brake light and an indicator.

[FJRider]

If you rely on your conscious brain in this sort of situation then you need to train your brain. I have gotten out of situations not dissimilar to this without even knew I was doing it.

The subconscious brain is thousands of time faster than the conscious.


As I've hinted at about above, using your subconscious is not "not thinking" it's using your brain in the way it was built. If humans relied on the conscious brain all the time we would've died out many millenia ago.

I think it's more to do with experience ... and practice .... :whistle:


Getting in the shit often enough ... to get to know how to stay at a safe depth ... ;)

[george formby]

The light in the aftermath is a brake light and an indicator.

Not going to argue the point but after going through it as slowly as I could I saw no orange & no flashing. I did look. Could be SMIDSY on my part.

[Katman]

Not going to argue the point but after going through it as slowly as I could I saw no orange & no flashing. I did look. Could be SMIDSY on my part.

If you frame by frame the video you can clearly see that the indicator is blinking.

[george formby]

If you frame by frame the video you can clearly see that the indicator is blinking.

That is where I fail & fail to argue with you. Cheers.

So brake or swerve?

[FJRider]

The car driver was indicating her intention. The fact that she turned across in front of the motorcyclist shouldn't have come as a surprise to him.

Perhaps ... under UK legislation ... when turning right (and indicating so) gives you right of way ... and ... if you believe you can make the turn safely .... this puts you "In the right" :doh: ... Just like in NZ ... :whistle:


Unfortunately, it looks like it took him completely by surprise. It doesn't look as though he made any effort to stop or avoid her.

But ... if he believed he was "In the right" ... and as such ... needed to take no evasive action .... because nothing could go wrong ... <_<


As has been said already, his positioning leaves a little to be desired. He should have moved further to the left and maybe that movement across the car driver's view may have been enough for her to suddenly see the bike.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing ... but we prang anyway ... :killingme

[swbarnett]

Swerve or anchors.
Both. But not necessarily at the same time.

[swbarnett]

As for being surprised then any car & driveway combination could reduce you to walking pace. Fair enough, too.
You always have warning of someone coming out of a driveway. Usually there's the space made by the footpath etc. If not I ride in the right wheel track to create some separation.

[swbarnett]

I think it's more to do with experience ... and practice .... :whistle:
Exactly. Enough experience and practice trains your subconscious how to handle the bike far better than your conscious brain ever will.



Getting in the shit often enough ... to get to know how to stay at a safe depth ... ;)
You don't need to get in the shit to learn how to avoid it. Just do the same manoeuvre. Slalom is good practice for swerving to avoid an obstacle. You'll often find me weaving down the road just to keep my hand in.

[Big Dog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMwo7ORYH0

You must be talking about a guy like this. Like I said, difficult to do, but best bet is to swerve. Here's a :clap: for the rider. :D

Far canal. Bet he needed a wee breather before continuing on. Especially lucky given the distinct lack of gear and the one second following distance.


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[FJRider]

You don't need to get in the shit to learn how to avoid it.

It make more impression on the sub-conscious ... if you HAVE been deep in it ... and have the scars to prove it. Only the stupid have a short time memory ...

[chasio]

What if the vehicle crossing your path was turning into a driveway?

If I perceive they are slowing at all, or notice them looking across at a possible turn, yes, just not always. But I'd have moved to the centre of the lane (buffering) and covered the brake as a matter of routine with an oncoming car on a road that narrow as well.

But FWIW, I am not convinced I'd have avoided the dizzy mare.


If you frame by frame the video you can clearly see that the indicator is blinking.


The light in the aftermath is a brake light and an indicator.

I'm with George on the front view i.e. I cannot see it, but agree the indicator is visible on the aftermath shot. Unless someone can tell me how to see the front indicator operating, I'd believe that it's possible the front indicator was not operating e.g. faulty, giving him less to go on.


Perhaps ... under UK legislation ... when turning right (and indicating so) gives you right of way ...

Nope, never been like that in the UK.

[swbarnett]

It make more impression on the sub-conscious ... if you HAVE been deep in it ... and have the scars to prove it. Only the stupid have a short time memory ...
Agreed. Crashing can help you improve. I just meant it's not mandatory.

[FJRider]

...Nope, never been like that in the UK.

I find that simply amazing ... so many people believe it IS so in New Zealand ... :killingme

And more people live in the UK .... :msn-wink:

About time BOTH countries changed legislation to suit ... :cool:

[george formby]

If, if, I had seen the indication, wheels turn, drivers head turn, etc then yeah, maybe, yeah, maybe. If not. Thump, scrape, bollocks.
Observation seems to be the key. But. It's very quick, not looking in the right place & you lose your chance. Lots to look at, too.

I'm definitely in the good gear & fully comp insurance camp on this one.

Oh, had a quick squizz at the UK road rules site. It used to be 3 seconds of indication, now it seems to be indicate in plenty of time. Hmmmmmm. That's a bit random.

[george formby]

I find that simply amazing ... so many people believe it IS so in New Zealand ... :killingme

And more people live in the UK .... :msn-wink:

About time BOTH countries changed legislation to suit ... :cool:

What? New rules to ignore.

9" spike on the steering wheel. Done.

[FJRider]

... I just meant it's not mandatory.




God help us if it is made so ... which party will bring it in do you think ... ??? :devil2:








ps: I know what you meant ... :2thumbsup

[FJRider]

What? New rules to ignore.



What harm could it do ... ??? :innocent:

[Gremlin]

Oh, had a quick squizz at the UK road rules site. It used to be 3 seconds of indication, now it seems to be indicate in plenty of time. Hmmmmmm. That's a bit random.
UK laws require a bit more intelligent driving. ie, here, changing lanes, you indicate for 3 secs regardless. UK, you must indicate if someone will benefit. Illustrates a big difference in thinking.

[swbarnett]

God help us if it is made so ... which party will bring it in do you think ... ??? :devil2:
:rofl: Would be one way to reduce the population.

Maybe required would've been a better word.







ps: I know what you meant ... :2thumbsup
Figured as much. Or rather I'd hoped as much, this is KB afterall.

[avgas]

I'm sure our "situational awareness" gurus will be able to tell us what the rider did wrong.
http://blog.motorcycle.com/2014/03/20/videos/bizarre-motorcycle-crash-caught-camera-video/
He should have been going faster.
Now we have to wait for part 2.

[TheDemonLord]

UK laws require a bit more intelligent driving. ie, here, changing lanes, you indicate for 3 secs regardless. UK, you must indicate if someone will benefit. Illustrates a big difference in thinking.

I thought the change from 3 seconds was because of the prevalance of mini roundabouts in the UK where it was confusing to indicate for the full 3 seconds, so they changed it to the common sense approach

[Tazz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOMwo7ORYH0

You must be talking about a guy like this. Like I said, difficult to do, but best bet is to swerve. Here's a :clap: for the rider. :D

Not really. Not to take away from his good reactions but he certainly had a bit more warning, and he still went for the brakes first...


If you rely on your conscious brain in this sort of situation then you need to train your brain. I have gotten out of situations not dissimilar to this without even knew I was doing it.

The subconscious brain is thousands of time faster than the conscious.


As I've hinted at about above, using your subconscious is not "not thinking" it's using your brain in the way it was built. If humans relied on the conscious brain all the time we would've died out many millenia ago.

I'd agree with that, but it still takes time to compute. I've done a couple of quick swerves after weighing up the options in the car and on the bike in what I'd like to was split seconds but alas I don't film myself 24/7, but they didn't result in a crash so bonus there XD I am still on the right side of 30 though, might be a different case when the body and mind slows a bit more.

Surprised that there are any crashes at all with all this talk, considering so many on here struggle to even ride with headphones :lol:

Well that's my 2c anyway, wrong or right =)

[swbarnett]

I'd agree with that, but it still takes time to compute.
That's the thing with the subconscious brain. If properly trained the reaction time is down to the millisecond if not quicker.


I've done a couple of quick swerves after weighing up the options in the car and on the bike in what I'd like to was split seconds but alas I don't film myself 24/7, but they didn't result in a crash so bonus there XD I am still on the right side of 30 though, might be a different case when the body and mind slows a bit more.
I'm a few months shy of 50. It certainly helps to ride every day. Add to that over twenty years of Auckland traffic and you get plenty of practice avoiding accidents.


Surprised that there are any crashes at all with all this talk, considering so many on here struggle to even ride with headphones :lol:
Theory is easy. Putting it into practice is harder.