Deaths

[ricardohardo]

From 1st Jan . 14 plus a poor chap @ Omaha on sat ...15 .

Compared with 9 this time last year.

Is this a case of of us riders not doing enough to remain safe on the roads, or this a spike in the stats...ie will we see a reduction the following year ?

What can we riders do to not become statistics ?

Condolences to all whom know the riders.


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[tigertim20]

comparing the death toll just to last year is a waste of time imo. its going to fluctuate year to year. whats the average over the last year as a yearly total?

[Berries]

What can we riders do to not become statistics ?
Ride like your life depends on it.

Funnily enough it does.

[Waihou Thumper]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/165050-We-have-lost-13

[nerrrd]

Compulsory ongoing training for everybody on the roads.

Failing that, ban all private vehicles so we can all die of something else...boredom probably.

As an aside, and no disrespect to anybody...suicide by bike, could that be a thing? Riding irresposibly 'cos you don't really care if you get home alive or not?

[Waihou Thumper]

comparing the death toll just to last year is a waste of time imo. its going to fluctuate year to year. whats the average over the last year as a yearly total?


http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

[Stampy]

Do these stats include quad's??

[Waihou Thumper]

Do these stats include quad's??

http://www.business.govt.nz/worksafe/research/health-and-safety-data/workplace-fatalities-2013

[Katman]

What the statistics don't say is how many accidents are the riders own fault or just bad luck eg the fault of something/someone else.

Are you really sure you'd like to see that information?

I'd hazard a guess that it wouldn't make us look good.

[GTRMAN]

Are you really sure you'd like to see that information?

I'd hazard a guess that it wouldn't make us look good.

Trust me, I have. It doesn't

[swbarnett]

From 1st Jan . 14 plus a poor chap @ Omaha on sat ...15 .

Compared with 9 this time last year.

Is this a case of of us riders not doing enough to remain safe on the roads, or this a spike in the stats...ie will we see a reduction the following year ?

What can we riders do to not become statistics ?

Condolences to all whom know the riders.


.
Before you start quoting meaningless stats. Tell us how many kms were actually ridden in the same period, and where.

15/9 = 1.66'. If there were 2/3 more kms ridden than last year then this figure is expected.

[swbarnett]

Are you really sure you'd like to see that information?

I'd hazard a guess that it wouldn't make us look good.
Yes, but even so it may be sobering for some and get them to pull their head in, maybe.

I honestly don't care what the stats say as long as they reflect the true situation, tell the whole story and aren't doctored by anyone with an agenda - them or us.

[ricardohardo]

Before you start quoting meaningless stats. Tell us how many kms were actually ridden in the same period, and where.

15/9 = 1.66'. If there were 2/3 more kms ridden than last year then this figure is expected.

These are NZTA stats


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[swbarnett]

These are NZTA stats.
I'm not disputing the numbers. My assertion is only that they are meaningless without the context in which they belong.

[Tazz]

I'm not disputing the numbers. My assertion is only that they are meaningless without the context in which they belong.

x2.

I could well say that the increase in deaths is obviously a direct result of the lower speeding tolerance campaign by the NZ Police for all the info you've provided :p (Idiot disclaimer: I'm not)

I guess your heart's in the right place but you can't really draw any conclusions from those numbers without the details surrounding each death.

[FJRider]

Before you start quoting meaningless stats. Tell us how many kms were actually ridden in the same period, and where.

15/9 = 1.66'. If there were 2/3 more kms ridden than last year then this figure is expected.

It matters little how many km's were ridden per average of each rider. My intention is to survive each and every Kilometer I ride.

And still arrive at my destination ... not my destiny ...

What's YOUR intention .. ??

[swbarnett]

It matters little how many km's were ridden per average of each rider. My intention is to survive each and every Kilometer I ride.

And still arrive at my destination ... not my destiny ...

What's YOUR intention .. ??
Exactly the same.

But this thread isn't about the individual rider. It's about the fact that more riders have died on the roads so far this year as compared to last year. There is no doubt that this is true. What I'm saying is that this may have little relevance to how we're riding as a group. It might have relevance, we can't know without the context in which the sample was taken.

[FJRider]

Exactly the same.

But this thread isn't about the individual rider. It's about the fact that more riders have died on the roads so far this year as compared to last year. There is no doubt that this is true. What I'm saying is that this may have little relevance to how we're riding as a group. It might have relevance, we can't know without the context in which the sample was taken.

When statistics reveal how many SUV drivers are involved in the death toll .. and truck drivers ... and Honda civic drivers ... And until each and every make and model/type of vehicle are listed ... NO such accurate records you mention will be of use. To anybody.

As for motorcycles .. a Harley rider one week (or two) ... suzuki rider the next ... maybe ...

As for the honda riders ... :rolleyes:


The REAL statistic we need is who is/was at fault ... and why. Because the "No fault" policy of ACC wont list it. But Motorcyclists (as a group) are involved more on average ... in National road deaths. Therefore we pay more ... as a group.

Issues can't be addressed if we don't know the cause.

[awa355]

Yesterday I rode through to the Beach Hop at Whangamata. Unfortunately, the 3 dumbest bits of driving/riding came from three examples of motorcycle riding. Passing on blind bends and over the brow of a hill, completely over the centre line. Seems that some think that with speed and horsepower they have no need to wait.

[Oakie]

I honestly don't care what the stats say as long as they reflect the true situation, tell the whole story and aren't doctored by anyone with an agenda - them or us.

"Statistics will own up to anything if tortured enough."

[pritch]

Passing on blind bends and over the brow of a hill, completely over the centre line. Seems some think that with speed and horsepower they have no need to wait.

Was that a group ride? The most utterly brain dead riding I have witnessed has happened on big group rides, and is the reason I avoid them now.

About the OP's questions; today is March 30, the answer to that statistics question will not be available until after 31 December. Let's all just try to be still here then.

[Murray]

When statistics reveal how many SUV drivers are involved in the death toll .. and truck drivers ...

Seems to be a truck crashing almost everyday????

[FJRider]

Seems to be a truck crashing almost everyday????

I wonder if their ACC levies will go up .. ??

[Crasherfromwayback]

Are you really sure you'd like to see that information?

I'd hazard a guess that it wouldn't make us look good.

Aye. I've seen an incredible amount of shit riding in my time.

[James Deuce]

Statistical variance. Another part of the year that had 15 last year will get 8 this year.

[MD]

Bloody depressing. I go for a Sunday ride to the usual haunts. Stop for a pleasant coffee break at Medici, Sun's shining, sipping a nice brew and open the Sunday Times. Ah the joy of motorcycling. DOH, first bloody thing I see is TWO motorcyclists died yesterday (29/03/14) in separate accidents. What the hells happening?

Strange thing I saw another Sunday paper today at the gas station, with front page lead story about the businessman who died yesterday in a Ducati crash. Without wanting to be flippant about this sad loss, why was the brand of vehicle so prominent in the headline? Will we now get news reports like; a Holden crash, Toyota crash, Kenworth crash.

Condolences to those that knew these riders.

[trustme]

Lets blame global warming . Far too much good weather encouraging riders to get out there.

Roll on winter

[Hitcher]

Condolences to all whom know the riders.

There's an unwritten law on Kiwi Biker: Thou shalt not endeavour to boost one's post count by posting ghoulish "look at moi" biker down threads.

Even worse when these are added to the GBR forum. That's why this has been moved to R&R, with all others of its ilk.

[ricardohardo]

There's an unwritten law on Kiwi Biker: Thou shalt not endeavour to boost one's post count by posting ghoulish "look at moi" biker down threads.

Even worse when these are added to the GBR forum. That's why this has been moved to R&R, with all others of its ilk.

Don't be a twat....its a genuine issue, putting it out there for discussion is better than being ignorant to the facts ?


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[swbarnett]

but it should only be for the crazys
Yet another person who doesn't understand the purpose or principle of ACC.

[Hitcher]

Don't be a twat....its a genuine issue, putting it out there for discussion is better than being ignorant to the facts ?

It's an issue that has been done to death, pun unintentional, on this forum, like "waving" threads, or asking for suggestions for bike insurance.

[swbarnett]

Do you think more accidents are caused as a result of the bikers own fault as I thought it was more due to not being seen by cars etc? If its more the bikers fault is it mid life crisis (returning) bikers? If so maybe a CC limit could be of benefit like learner riders.
ACC's own figures show it's not BABs. Even thought they claim otherwise anyone with a rudimentary mathematical ability can see that they've doctored the figures by making the age ranges inconsistent.

[James Deuce]

Do you think more accidents are caused as a result of the bikers own fault as I thought it was more due to not being seen by cars etc? If its more the bikers fault is it mid life crisis (returning) bikers? If so maybe a CC limit could be of benefit like learner riders.

Born again bikers are a myth of the media's invention. It's convenient to blame a long break for a lack of skill, when the reality is that a lot of people had nosappreciable skill in riding motorcycles in traffic to begin with and blatantly and aggressively refuse to develop any skill. How long and how slowly you've ridden a bike does not equal motorcycling genius.

Most motorcycle accidents, more than 50%, are single vehicle accidents where the rider "lost control" on a bend with no other vehicle involved.

[James Deuce]

So you don't like the idea of paying lower reg for having fewer claims? That is already happening as far as car drivers go? Their logic is flawed as far as making diesel vehicles pay the same as a larger road bike though as I would have thought on average they would be safer than cars as they are mostly 4wds.

You don't understand the Woodhouse principle on which ACC is based or the media distortion of how compensation schemes work or how successive Governments, both Labour and National party-led, have rooted the best accident compensation and rehabilitation scheme ever instigated in the world, ever.

So shut up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Born again bikers are a myth of the media's invention. .

Not sure I can agree with that. "I used to road race GS750's back in the day mate!!!". Yep...all 80hp of them. Get on a GSXR1000 and pull the pin some 35 years later...and uuuuhhh ooohhh. Or get old and weak and try to wrestle a heavy Harley when you've got into the corner a bit hot. I've lost more older customers than younger ones for a few years now.

[mashman]

I guess your heart's in the right place but you can't really draw any conclusions from those numbers without the details surrounding each death.

Yes you can. Something went wrong and someone died. Try not to let it happen to you. All of the best intentions in the world won't stop deaths from happening in however many numbers of ways as there are to die whilst riding. The rest is politics.

[Ocean1]

I've lost more older customers than younger ones for a few years now.

Be fair mate, all of your customers are fucking ancient.


Yes you can.

Well you can. But you can draw any conclusion you want from the colour of your navel lint.

Everyone else needs numbers.

Well, you and this dipshit:


Perhaps he is a midlife crisis biker himself and just refuses to believe a riding gap of between 20 to 30 years is any wider than taking a ride the next day and that technology does not change over time. Maybe he also thinks the media is lying when they state the age mostly over 40 of riders who come to grief today.

Take Jim's advice and stfu before you...

No, far too late.

[DamianW]

I'm really encouraged by the Auckland Transport 'Urban Commuter' and ACC subsidised 'Ride Forever' rider skills courses through Pro-rider. Not only are most of the tuition fees covered, Star Insurance waive 50% off your policy excess for the first year if you've completed a RF course - taking these courses are IMO a no brainer. Chuck in a day or two at Cali' Superbike school at Taupo or Hampton Downs then you're gonna be better off for it.

Just my 0.02c.

[george formby]

Not sure I can agree with that. "I used to road race GS750's back in the day mate!!!". Yep...all 80hp of them. Get on a GSXR1000 and pull the pin some 35 years later...and uuuuhhh ooohhh. Or get old and weak and try to wrestle a heavy Harley when you've got into the corner a bit hot. I've lost more older customers than younger ones for a few years now.

Both here & back in the Uk it seems the older recreational riders get, the more habitual they become and the better they think they can ride.
Increases the odds for an off.
Across the board of bikes & riders I regularly see terrible road craft. Two groups stick out, catalogue riders on the latest & greatest & packs of cruiser riders. Is the white line magnetic?

Any hoo.
One of my favourite sayings is that statistics are used the way a drunken man uses a lamp post, for support not illumination.
Until this changes & the most at risk groups are identified & targeted to become safer then we will remain nothing more than media fodder & revenue targets.
It's anathema for bikers to be pigeon holed, we all ride like gods. Apparently. But as long as that attitude exists & TPTB don't give a shit then it's just going to become more expensive & frustrating to ride a bike.

[tigertim20]

Exactly the same.

But this thread isn't about the individual rider. It's about the fact that more riders have died on the roads so far this year as compared to last year. There is no doubt that this is true. What I'm saying is that this may have little relevance to how we're riding as a group. It might have relevance, we can't know without the context in which the sample was taken.
the 'year to date' means fuckall. the 'past 12 months' is a better gauge.
this link http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html says that the past 12 month to 28/3/14 had less motorcycle deaths than the same period the year previously.
So really your underlined comment means diddly squat

I wonder if their ACC levies will go up .. ??
truck companies pay a variable amount based on a number of variables, like safety / crash records of all company vehicles combined, I have a feelin they even get charged more if any of their vehicles fail COF inspections an require work - but my mind is fading on the details so I may be wrong on that

[James Deuce]

Not sure I can agree with that. "I used to road race GS750's back in the day mate!!!". Yep...all 80hp of them. Get on a GSXR1000 and pull the pin some 35 years later...and uuuuhhh ooohhh. Or get old and weak and try to wrestle a heavy Harley when you've got into the corner a bit hot. I've lost more older customers than younger ones for a few years now.

That's just a reflection of the current demographic bulge in motorcycling. The push by Honda and to a lesser extent Yamaha (thankfully focusing on fun AND fuel economy) to get back to its economic basis of cheap transport will drive the average age down over the next 20 years, however a lot of the people I started riding bikes with, still are, with little or no appreciable gaps in owning or riding motorcycles. The ones who've died have been cocky or distracted in some major fashion, either directly at the point of impact or by divorces, dead kids, dead parents, mortgagee sales, thinning hair, erectile dysfunction and so on. A lot of the BAB phenomenon is blamed on people who've started riding bikes in their 40s, not returned to the fray. They were in no way involved in a fray during their past. They don't tend to crash anywhere as much as people who started in their teens either, so trying to lump 39-65 into an age group is ignoring some massive social changes that reflect on who rides and owns motorcycles.

[FJRider]

I have a feelin they even get charged more if any of their vehicles fail COF inspections an require work - but my mind is fading on the details so I may be wrong on that

You're not wrong ... and fail more than once and can be "Flagged" for a roadside stop/check anytime by the "God Squad" ...

[TheDemonLord]

If domestic and financial issues are causes for biker deaths surely there would be the same proportion dying in car crashes for the same reasons.

Except if someone crashes an Audi or BMW at 120 kph they have a better chance of not dieing than the biker.

[FJRider]

If domestic and financial issues are causes for biker deaths surely there would be the same proportion dying in car crashes for the same reasons.

Maybe there is ...

Have you looked at the accident reports to see .. ??? or have you more important things to concern yourself with .... ??

[SPman]

Statistical blip. There've been 7 bike deaths in the last fortnight over here - horrible, but as long as it doesn't carry on at that rate....which it won't....

[swbarnett]

So you don't like the idea of paying lower reg for having fewer claims?
No I don't. That question just goes to prove my point. You have no idea about how you and I benefit from a healthy population. The fact of the matter is that ACC is a public good. Everybody benefits equally so we should all pay pro-rata based on income. ACC should be funded directly from the main tax take. This would remove any argument of fault and apportion the cost equitably. After all, ACC is supposed to be a no-fault system. You're advocating bringing even more fault in to it.

If the original principle of ACC was adhered to our reg would be much lower under the current levy model anyway - the same as for a car.

[swbarnett]

So really your underlined comment means diddly squat
Which was exactly my point. The numbers can't be disputed. Their meaning can.