CBT - and why you should do it over a normal licence test

[TheDemonLord]

So this Saturday, me and a Mate went to take our CBT1 (learner to Restricted) with Rider Training.

Initially I was skepticle as to whether the extra cost of doing the CBT would be worth it...

Let me now assure you that it is worth every cent. And let me elaborate why:

You can do the test on a Saturday - the NZTA only offer tests from 7-3 monday to friday, no weekends
You are taking the test with an actual Motorcyclist who has ridden a bike for many year, as opposed to some Cager knob with a clip board who has never ridden in their life. I will elaborate more on this down below
It is an awesome ride, Dawn took us around Ridge rd in Albany, and even though we were on our 250s and she was on her 1300 B King, it was still a good blast (at 80 kph) round some of those bends.
You get to pick Dawn's Brains - it wasn't a ride with a robot/GPS system 'in 200 meters, turn right..... Do a U turn... Turn Left', we were talking about various things bike before, during and after the ride, even a few snide comments about Cagers doing typically cager things requiring us to take positive action
Finally - You get tips on what you need to improve on, This IMO is really what makes the CBT the superior option for going from L-R and from R-F. Needless to say Me and my Mate have a few bad habits that we have picked up and Dawn talked to us about these, why they are bad habits, what we need to be practicing and how to avoid ending up as a statistic.

Before the test as well we had a few questions - and as opposed to the typical Tester approach of 'I can't tell you, you need to drive legally and as you would normally' - Dawn was happy to clarify a few things as to what to expect:

During the test - We hit some heavy traffic, now we had asked Dawn before the test about filtering - as the criteria in the CBT is a little vague as to whether you can filter during the test, She confirmed if the traffic was heavy, she would ask as to whether or not we were happy to filter (and of course if we were going to go filtering, we had to do it safely) needless to say, we went up the traffic and continued on with the test.

We also got Dawn's expect judgement - I made a couple of really minor (but silly) errors mainly having a bit of fun round the last roundabout and after the test Dawn talked to me about it - she said that I can ride well and safely, my head checks were good, my control was good - she gave us a good telling off about the errors...

So TL-DR - Taking your CBT with Dawn from Rider Training is worth every cent - good ride, good test, good company - and we both passed

[Scubbo]

sounds good, if I fail my restricted on thursday i'll book a CBT instead :|

what are booking times like, there are months of waiting to sit L-R in south auckland -- had to book in penrose just to get it done before July ~_O

[rapid van cleef]

What is a CBT?

IN the Uk the CBT is Compulsory Basic Training. You can't get a learners bike license without it.

[maraudingkiwi]

@rapid it stands for Competency Based Training

@demon Thanks for sharing your experience with CBT, I'm definitely going to go with that option for my full this year. Also had a cager with a clipboard giving GPS-like instructions for my restricted... what a joke.

[Ocean1]

What is a CBT?

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Seriously.

[rapid van cleef]

It needs to be compulsory regardless of its name

[FJRider]

What is a CBT?

IN the Uk the CBT is Compulsory Basic Training. You can't get a learners bike license without it.

Actually .. I think it's supposed to be CBTA.

Competency Based Training and Assessment.

[FJRider]

@rapid it stands for Competency Based Training

@demon Thanks for sharing your experience with CBT, I'm definitely going to go with that option for my full this year. Also had a cager with a clipboard giving GPS-like instructions for my restricted... what a joke.

The training course is to shorten your time on the learner/restricted license and be eligible to sit the restricted/full license sooner ... it is not a test to get the restricted/full license.

You STILL need to go to the "Cager Noob with a clipboard" for that ...

[sharp2183]

Why do people still use the term 'Cager'? Does anyone say it in real life? Do they think it's cool?

Never understood it... Those who say it probably drive cars too... Fuckin cagers.

That rant now over, good on you for getting some additional training. It all helps.

[TheDemonLord]

The training course is to shorten your time on the learner/restricted license and be eligible to sit the restricted/full license sooner ... it is not a test to get the restricted/full license.

You STILL need to go to the "Cager Noob with a clipboard" for that ...

Nope, you are wrong:

From the NZTA Website:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/cbta.html?r=1

And as someone who has done it, I did the CBT, went to the AA, picked up my restricted licence, no Cager noobs required.

@Scubbo - Lead times where 1-2 weeks for my test,

[FJRider]

Nope, you are wrong:

From the NZTA Website:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/cbta.html?r=1

And as someone who has done it, I did the CBT, went to the AA, picked up my restricted licence, no Cager noobs required.



Do the AA issue drivers licenses in Auckland ... ???

And from your link.

Once you’ve passed your assessment you’ll be issued with a Transport Agency motorcycle competency certificate for the appropriate CBTA course. Once you’ve held your learner/restricted licence for the minimum period (see CBTA infographic), you’ll be eligible to apply for your restricted/full licence. You’ll need to present this certificate to a driver licensing agent when you apply for the related licence.

[TheDemonLord]

Do the AA issue drivers licenses in Auckland ... ???

And from your link.

Once you’ve passed your assessment you’ll be issued with a Transport Agency motorcycle competency certificate for the appropriate CBTA course. Once you’ve held your learner/restricted licence for the minimum period (see CBTA infographic), you’ll be eligible to apply for your restricted/full licence. You’ll need to present this certificate to a driver licensing agent when you apply for the related licence.

The AA does driver licencing for anywhere:

http://www.aa.co.nz/drivers/driver-licences/

The Certificate negates the need to sit a practical test. The applying that the website is referring to is the Form which you have to fill in to get the licence, not the practical test.

[FJRider]

Nope, you are wrong:



I stand corrected ... I assumed the "Clipboard" test was still required ...

Do (will) you need to do another CBTA "Test"/course for your full license .. ??

[mobileguy]

Nope, you are wrong:

From the NZTA Website:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/licence/getting/motorcycles/cbta.html?r=1

And as someone who has done it, I did the CBT, went to the AA, picked up my restricted licence, no Cager noobs required.

@Scubbo - Lead times where 1-2 weeks for my test,

That's correct did mine through ProRider lots to tips and assistance AA issued me a tempory restricted license till they post out the new one.

You can book online for the CBTA http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle-training-courses.php?course=35#booking

Nearly took longer standing in the queue at the AA on Sunday Arvo.

[TheDemonLord]

I stand corrected ... I assumed the "Clipboard" test was still required ...

Do (will) you need to do another CBTA "Test"/course for your full license .. ??

Yup - that is the CBT2

[Stevee2]

Yup - that is the CBT2

*CBTA.

Just to be particular.

[f2dz]

+1 for the CBTA courses and Dawn @ Rider Training.

I did my CBTA2 with her a month or so ago and it was a great experience. Her bike is a beast.

[SNF]

Why do people still use the term 'Cager'? Does anyone say it in real life? Do they think it's cool?

Never understood it... Those who say it probably drive cars too... Fuckin cagers.

That rant now over, good on you for getting some additional training. It all helps.

Slightly derogative term for a car driver - as in you sit inside a car its encased by metal just like cage. They usually can't see from the perspective from motorcyclists and assume we are all dangerous dickheads on 2 wheel death traps. It not, its just on a bike you need to have your head in the game 100% of the time, can't just sit in a car and pass judgement/daydream. I say cager IRL, usually if one's done something in order to make me say that. Expect the un-expected and you start saying it far less. Hate driving, I'd much rather ride.

I like the idea of the CBTA system.Formyelf to pass I know I need to work on low speed actions.

[JimmyC]

Thanks for the mini review.

I would love to know why the CBTA is not compulsory. The idea is to educate and ultimately save lives, and it certainly seems like you learn a lot more going this route so why not make it the only route?

It is more expensive than the standard method however, and a prior assessment at additional cost is also highly recommended. Money well invested imo. What seems a little strange is current prices for the actual test vary quite a bit too ($130-$200) which seems a little off for something supposedly standardised.

I'll be doing my full via CBTA shortly. Still weighing up options.

[TheDemonLord]

Thanks for the mini review.

I would love to know why the CBTA is not compulsory. The idea is to educate and ultimately save lives, and it certainly seems like you learn a lot more going this route so why not make it the only route?

It is more expensive than the standard method however, and a prior assessment at additional cost is also highly recommended. Money well invested imo. What seems a little strange is current prices for the actual test vary quite a bit too ($130-$200) which seems a little off for something supposedly standardised.

I'll be doing my full via CBTA shortly. Still weighing up options.

You are welcome - as for the compulsory part - I would guess politics and stuff would be the first stick in the mud.

I have myself only seen about a $5-$10 variance in cost for comparable courses - most places offer CBTA1 for between $170-$180, and the CBTA2 is about $130-$140 I think (CBF getting actual figures) but I know some places do a Test + training option which might be what is accounting for the price fluctuations?

[f2dz]

Thanks for the mini review.

I would love to know why the CBTA is not compulsory. The idea is to educate and ultimately save lives, and it certainly seems like you learn a lot more going this route so why not make it the only route?

It is more expensive than the standard method however, and a prior assessment at additional cost is also highly recommended. Money well invested imo. What seems a little strange is current prices for the actual test vary quite a bit too ($130-$200) which seems a little off for something supposedly standardised.

I'll be doing my full via CBTA shortly. Still weighing up options.

Even if it were compulsory there isn't any obligation to do additional training before the actual assessment. I did my CBTA2 straight away and didn't receive any kind of training. We went over the condition of my bike then went for the ride, that was about it.

I felt more at ease with an actual rider following me rather than a car but apart from that I don't really see a benefit to making it compulsory in its standard form unless they make prior training mandatory.

It will piss a lot of people off if they do though as most people think they're crash hot and won't pay for training to make themselves better.

[TheDemonLord]

It will piss a lot of people off if they do though as most people think they're crash hot and won't pay for training to make themselves better.

This is a sad reality - Hell, I am sure I am guilty of thinking I am better than I actually am

[JimmyC]

I have myself only seen about a $5-$10 variance in cost for comparable courses - most places offer CBTA1 for between $170-$180, and the CBTA2 is about $130-$140 I think (CBF getting actual figures) but I know some places do a Test + training option which might be what is accounting for the price fluctuations?

No, the Test + Training options are even more expensive. I'm only going by what's on different instructors websites.




It will piss a lot of people off if they do though as most people think they're crash hot and won't pay for training to make themselves better.

And that's precisely why they need it. Their ego is writing cheques their skills can't cash... (to defile a famous movie quote :-))

[Erelyes]

Good to hear that you found the CBTA worthwhile.

Had you done any form of training before?

I plan to do the CBTA stage 2, later on this year. Both to knock 6 months off the time on restricted, but also as I found the test from L to R rather basic / lacking feedback. I've previously done an ACC course with Dan Ormsby too which was fantastic value for money (both due to the ACC subsidy, and the great tuition)

[numbersixteen16]

Only found out about this the day after booking my restricted... Even though I asked the lady behind the counter for alternatives. Definitely doing it for my full though

[GingerMidget]

I did my assessment so I could get my full licence just over a week ago with Stuart from Two Bald Bikers.
I was nervous because I'd just come fresh off a month of not being able to ride, but we had a chat before we went anywhere, and we both had quite a few questions and I went out on the test feeling reasonably confident.

I don't think its going to make it any easier, just a different way of doing things.

[Erelyes]

I don't think its going to make it any easier, just a different way of doing things.

Have just done CBTA2 / CBTAF and I totally agree. When you do your 'clipboard' (standard practical) test you might get someone competent. Or you might get someone that's too lenient (tick boxes, I get paid by the hour) or too strict (keep these damn bikers from killing themselves).

With the CBTA there is no doubt you are getting someone that is an experienced and skilled rider. I understand the assessment to become a CBTA instructor isn't exactly a cakewalk either.

I imagine the passrate would be similar between the two, but with CBTA you will get a ton more feedback.

[Coldrider]

I am still confused.

'Licence' is the noun, 'license' is the verb, the permission, unless we are in the USA, then it is just 'license', which we are not.

[Katman]

Slightly derogative term for a car driver - as in you sit inside a car its encased by metal just like cage. They usually can't see from the perspective from motorcyclists and assume we are all dangerous dickheads on 2 wheel death traps. It not, its just on a bike you need to have your head in the game 100% of the time, can't just sit in a car and pass judgement/daydream. I say cager IRL, usually if one's done something in order to make me say that. Expect the un-expected and you start saying it far less. Hate driving, I'd much rather ride.


I think the other poster was well aware of what the term 'cager' refers to.

He's also correct in implying that those who make constant reference to the term are fucking morons.

[Drew]

Too many posts to quote them all.

This training should be mandatory, but shouldn't shorten the licence restriction times.

Yes, I am better than average with bike control and understanding of road rules. Happy to prove it, be that egotistical or not.

[GTRMAN]

Too many posts to quote them all.

This training should be mandatory, but shouldn't shorten the licence restriction times.

Yes, I am better than average with bike control and understanding of road rules. Happy to prove it, be that egotistical or not.

Fancy coming on an assessment and put your money where your mouth is?

[Katman]

Fancy coming on an assessment and put your money where your mouth is?

:psst:It's ok Drew - I think you can leave the ruler at home for this one.

[Drew]

Fancy coming on an assessment and put your money where your mouth is?

Sure, except the money part.

[Gremlin]

Yes, I am better than average with bike control and understanding of road rules. Happy to prove it, be that egotistical or not.
The only problem is, most people think that. Mathematically, it's not possible.

Whether or not you are (theoretical you), only someone qualified could comment. However, as long as anyone goes into training with an open mind and receptive to feedback, then it's all good.

[Drew]

The only problem is, most people think that. Mathematically, it's not possible.

Whether or not you are (theoretical you), only someone qualified could comment. However, as long as anyone goes into training with an open mind and receptive to feedback, then it's all good.

I don't disagree with that. Was just tagging it onto my post, because someone said it was a common opinion of bikers who aren't right.

[GTRMAN]

Sure, except the money part.

No charge, is a free assessment.

[Drew]

No charge, is a free assessment.

Cool. Where and when?

[Drew]

Actually, I might as well pay and graduate to my full licence at the same time.

[GTRMAN]

Actually, I might as well pay and graduate to my full licence at the same time.

Sounds like a great idea :)

[GrayWolf]

What CBT (Cock n Ball Torture)

has to do with riding a motorcycle??


Or is that when you either brake too hard, or crash on a sprotbike and crush the jewels against the fuel tank?

[skinman]

great to see yet another thread that started out being quite good being turned into a pissing contest
KB living up to its rep again

I think the standard license system is stupid
ride around a carpark then get yourself a up to 600cc bike & go for it so long as you have the magic L plate on
no training required
awsum

much better to have some sort of training involved

I left behind my tester noob with clipboard when going from R to F, cracked me up, just heard "return to base" in ear as he got caught in traffic. lol

[TheDemonLord]

I think the standard license system is stupid
ride around a carpark then get yourself a up to 600cc bike & go for it so long as you have the magic L plate on
no training required
awsum


Just a point of Clarification - you don't get to ride a full power 600 CC bike, its up to 650cc, but they have to meet a power to weight ratio - I have ridden a couple of LAMS bikes, and although spritelier than my 250 - the limiter kicks in at that point when you just start to really have fun (and possibly twat yourself)

[Angel_of_Metal]

Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.

Seriously.

Cock and Ball Torture

Woo relevance! (Also, no need to go into exactly how or why I know that... :shifty: )

[TheDemonLord]

BUMP

So an update on this - went for the CBT2 today, again riding with Dawn at Rider Training - My riding was much improved and although the weather was meh, was still a good ride.

Once again - Highly highly recommend Dawn and Rider Training as an option for doing your CBT with.

Now all I gotta do is wait till April to apply for my Full licence - then its Thou time :devil2:

[jasonu]

It will piss a lot of people off if they do though as most people think they're crash hot and won't pay for training to make themselves better.

Like Cassina maybe?

[Ulsterkiwi]

good to hear the CBTA2 went well. I did the VTNZ test for my restricted and CBTA for my full. I have to say the CBTA system leaves you much more prepared for riding on the road. The ability to discuss and reflect makes all the difference. We should be thinking about our riding and the system encourages that.

Out of interest how did the meeting of Drew and GTRMan go?

[Drew]

Out of interest how did the meeting of Drew and GTRMan go?

It hasn't. I work in Western Australia at the mines now, only back home for short periods at a time. Losing half a day to be signed off to ride is low on my priority list.

[caspernz]

What CBT (Cock n Ball Torture)

has to do with riding a motorcycle??


Or is that when you either brake too hard, or crash on a sprotbike and crush the jewels against the fuel tank?

Funnily enough...I too pondered this question :drool: